Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4 support

[Jiří Činčura]

OK, there doesn't seem to be any more discussion around this. And
because, as stated before, MS is not going to support 4.0 (and also 4.7
is now out for all systems), the minimum supported version in next major
version will be 4.5.2. If somebody wants the 4.0 the previous versions
are always available. 

Any questions?

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Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4 support

[Alexander Muylaert-Gelein]

Hi Gerdus


The question is... should "we" be affected by "your" difficulties upgrading 500 
pcs.  I have the same problem, it is even thousands and all running on 
different locations, but we try to manage.  (Failing miserably, but that is 
another story)

I agree with your opinion that you can stay on current implementation and not 
migrate away to all the new features.  If it works, it works, no?


Besides new features and code clean ups... what with bugfixes though.  I don't 
think we can keep on expecting from Jiri to backport all fixes to all version 
all the time.

I rather see Jiri working on the new event system then to keep 4.0 code running.


kind regards


a




Verzonden vanuit Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>



Van: Gerdus van Zyl <gerdusvan...@gmail.com>
Verzonden: zondag 15 januari 2017 15:55
Aan: For users and developers of the Firebird .NET providers
Onderwerp: Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4 support

I am still using 4.0 due to the difficulty upgrading 500+ computers and a 
painful amount of customers still on XP. The downside of desktop software.
That being said the current code is stable and fast in our experience so would 
be happy to stay on the current version until we are ready to upgrade .net 
version.

On 15 January 2017 at 15:11, Jirí Cincura 
<j...@cincura.net<mailto:j...@cincura.net>> wrote:
Hello *,

reading the
===
As previously announced, starting January 12, 2016 Microsoft will no longer 
provide security updates, technical support or hotfixes for .NET 4, 4.5, and 
4.5.1 frameworks. All other framework versions, including 3.5, 4.5.2, 4.6 and 
4.6.1, will be supported for the duration of their established lifecycle. The 
decision to end support for these versions will allow us to invest more 
resources towards improvements of the .NET Framework.
===

makes me wonder who here is using strictly 4.0, still one year after it's no 
longer supported. ;) It would make my life easier to drop .NET 4 support and 
invest my resources to moving forward faster. 4.5.2+ would still be supported, 
of course.

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Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4 support

[Gerdus van Zyl]

I am still using 4.0 due to the difficulty upgrading 500+ computers and a
painful amount of customers still on XP. The downside of desktop software.
That being said the current code is stable and fast in our experience so
would be happy to stay on the current version until we are ready to upgrade
.net version.

On 15 January 2017 at 15:11, Jiří Činčura  wrote:

> Hello *,
>
> reading the
> ===
> As previously announced, starting January 12, 2016 Microsoft will no
> longer provide security updates, technical support or hotfixes for .NET 4,
> 4.5, and 4.5.1 frameworks. All other framework versions, including 3.5,
> 4.5.2, 4.6 and 4.6.1, will be supported for the duration of their
> established lifecycle. The decision to end support for these versions will
> allow us to invest more resources towards improvements of the .NET
> Framework.
> ===
>
> makes me wonder who here is using strictly 4.0, still one year after it's
> no longer supported. ;) It would make my life easier to drop .NET 4 support
> and invest my resources to moving forward faster. 4.5.2+ would still be
> supported, of course.
>
> --
> Mgr. Jiří Činčura
> Independent IT Specialist
>
>
> 
> --
> Developer Access Program for Intel Xeon Phi Processors
> Access to Intel Xeon Phi processor-based developer platforms.
> With one year of Intel Parallel Studio XE.
> Training and support from Colfax.
> Order your platform today. http://sdm.link/xeonphi
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> Firebird-net-provider@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-net-provider
>
>


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[Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4 support

[Jiří Činčura]

Hello *,



reading the

===

As previously announced, starting January 12, 2016 Microsoft will no
longer provide security updates, technical support or hotfixes for .NET
4, 4.5, and 4.5.1 frameworks. All other framework versions, including
3.5, 4.5.2, 4.6 and 4.6.1, will be supported for the duration of their
established lifecycle. The decision to end support for these versions
will allow us to invest more resources towards improvements of the .NET
Framework.
===



makes me wonder who here is using strictly 4.0, still one year after
it's no longer supported. ;) It would make my life easier to drop .NET 4
support and invest my resources to moving forward faster. 4.5.2+ would
still be supported, of course.


-- 

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Independent IT Specialist


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Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4

[Scott Price]

Yes Jira, but this makes the assumption that every web host out there 
currently supports 3.5 hosting, which they do not all seem to offer as 
default at present.  Many hosts still only offer 2.0 as standard, and 
are only just starting to make migrations up to 3.5 hosting offerings.

Whislt I can understand the desire to support the newer releases only, 
we do have to bare in mind the reality of the hosting environments on 
which we depend on the website to run within.

For me, that's the real issue.  When the hosts start going higher 
framework by default, which many don't see as beneficial to them as 
generally it increases running web applications memory consumption when 
compared to 2.0 web applications, you can see they think they will be 
running less per machine on which they provide hosting.

I can see both sides of the argument, but I don't think that dropping 
support for 2.0 only in the short term will be beneficial.


Kind regards,


Scott :)

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Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4

[Daniel Rail]

Hi,

At January-03-10, 12:20 PM, Jiri Cincura wrote:

 1. Dropping .NET 2.0 support.
 The .NET 3.0 and mainly .NET 3.5 is just update for .NET 2.0. There's
 no new runtime or changes in bases. So there's no risk installing this
 update. This step will provide us option to use new features and make
 the code more clean and probably also faster. Taking into account
 limited resources project has, this will also allow focus more on new
 features.
 Until the official .NET 4 release there will be still support for .NET
 2.0. But not after it.
 Builds for .NET 3.5 and .NET 4 will be provided on site as now.

I would suggest that the version 2.x of the Firebird ADO.Net provider
would be the last version to support .Net 2.0.  And, that Firebird
ADO.Net provider version 3.0+ will support .Net 3.5(with EF installed)
and .Net 4(EF already included).

And, of what I can see, there will most likely need two
distributions(one for .Net 3.5 and the other for .Net 4), read it as
being that the provider is compiled for each .Net version.

 2. CSC 4 will be the official compiler.
 New compiler means (maybe) better code. New features and syntactic
 sugars means faster development. You don't need to build provider
 yourself so you are not affected by this. If you're building it
 yourself you don't need VS2010 to install. Just use CSC thru
 cmd/MSBuild and you're fine.
 [1]

 3. Switching the solution(s) to VS2010.
 With 2. this is pretty obvious. As you're safe with us using new
 compiler, this is more true for new IDE.
 [1]

I agree on points 2 and 3.

 What I don't know is whether there's some demand on VS2005 DDEX
 support dropping and extending support for new stuff in VS2008. VS2008
 adds some really minor features, as far as I remember when checking
 it, so it's probably not worth doing it. But maybe you have different
 opinion.

If it is to drop the support for VS2005 DDEX, then it would be to
still keep it available for download, for those that might still need
it.


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 Senior Software Developer
 ACCRA Solutions Inc. (www.accra.ca)
 ACCRA Med Software Inc. (www.filopto.com)


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Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4

[Jiri Cincura]

On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 21:44, Kjell Rilbe kjell.ri...@datadia.se wrote:
 I would assume that those who are still on 2.0 for various reasons would
 find it rather disappointing if 2.0 were to be dropped completely. Might
 be a reason to switch away from FB?

 For me personally, our project is on 3.5 so as long as 3.5 is supported
 we're happy. Also, I suppose we would be able to upgrade to 4.0 as soon
 as ECO (www.capableobjects.com) supports it.

I think you don't understand the relation between .NET 3.5 and .NET
2.0. The 3.5 is just extended 2.0, the runtime is the same as well as
the base libraries. What I'm talking about is to drop just 2.0
support, but keep 3.5. i.e. using .NET 4 and .NET 3.5's features.

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Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4

[Kjell Rilbe]

Jiri Cincura wrote:

 On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 21:44, Kjell Rilbe kjell.ri...@datadia.se wrote:
 
I would assume that those who are still on 2.0 for various reasons would
find it rather disappointing if 2.0 were to be dropped completely. Might
be a reason to switch away from FB?

For me personally, our project is on 3.5 so as long as 3.5 is supported
we're happy. Also, I suppose we would be able to upgrade to 4.0 as soon
as ECO (www.capableobjects.com) supports it.
 
 I think you don't understand the relation between .NET 3.5 and .NET
 2.0. The 3.5 is just extended 2.0, the runtime is the same as well as
 the base libraries. What I'm talking about is to drop just 2.0
 support, but keep 3.5. i.e. using .NET 4 and .NET 3.5's features.

Yes, I am a .Net novice and have a very vague grasp of the various 
versions. But I find your statement somewhat contradictory.

On the one hand, you say that 3.0 and 3.5 are just extensions to 2.0, 
which would seem to indicate that dropping 2.0 support would imply also 
dropping 3.0 and 3.5 support.

But on the other hand you say the opposite: that you intend to drop only 
2.0 support, but keep 3.5 (and 3.0?) support.

Can you clarify, just make sure I (and possibly others) don't 
misunderstand you?

Thank you,
Kjell
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DataDIA AB
E-post: kj...@datadia.se
Telefon: 08-761 06 55
Mobil: 0733-44 24 64

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Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4

[Γιάννης Μπουρκέλης]

I build 2 applications with the installer size that is less than 16 MB.

Most of the end users have NET 2.0 installed in their OS and do not need to
download anything else.

Even if they have to download Net framework 2.0, it is around 23MB and this
is rare.

Net 2.0 applications run as-is in Vista, Windows 7 and most Windows XP
systems.



Most Windows XP users do not have NET Framework 3.5 installed in their
systems, so if they want to run a net framework 3.5 application, even if
this application is only some megabytes, they will have to download the huge
net 3.5 runtime, which is more than 50mb and I think that this is not good.



The big installer size is a reason for some users not to try a trial version
of an application.



Also, please take a look at this Wikipedia article, in the criticism
section:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework



Also most of the big Net component vendors, like Devexpress, infragistics
etc are building their windows forms components targeting NET 2.0 and
supporting VS 2005/2008. They know that they will lose a huge market share
if they drop support for NET 2.0 in their windows forms components.





I suggest to wait some more time before dropping Net 2.0 provider support.

A good time to drop net 2.0 support will be when most of the Windows XP
users move to windows 7 or a newer OS, with the Net 3.5 preinstalled.





Yianni


2010/1/3 Jiri Cincura disk...@cincura.net

 Hi *,

 as the new .NET 4 will be out soon I have couple of thoughts for
 further development. Feel free to express your POVs as I definitely
 don't know all corners where .NET provider is used.

 1. Dropping .NET 2.0 support.
 The .NET 3.0 and mainly .NET 3.5 is just update for .NET 2.0. There's
 no new runtime or changes in bases. So there's no risk installing this
 update. This step will provide us option to use new features and make
 the code more clean and probably also faster. Taking into account
 limited resources project has, this will also allow focus more on new
 features.
 Until the official .NET 4 release there will be still support for .NET
 2.0. But not after it.
 Builds for .NET 3.5 and .NET 4 will be provided on site as now.

 2. CSC 4 will be the official compiler.
 New compiler means (maybe) better code. New features and syntactic
 sugars means faster development. You don't need to build provider
 yourself so you are not affected by this. If you're building it
 yourself you don't need VS2010 to install. Just use CSC thru
 cmd/MSBuild and you're fine.
 [1]

 3. Switching the solution(s) to VS2010.
 With 2. this is pretty obvious. As you're safe with us using new
 compiler, this is more true for new IDE.
 [1]

 What I don't know is whether there's some demand on VS2005 DDEX
 support dropping and extending support for new stuff in VS2008. VS2008
 adds some really minor features, as far as I remember when checking
 it, so it's probably not worth doing it. But maybe you have different
 opinion.

 The development overall will be still focused on new 
 ADO.NEThttp://ado.net/(incl.
 EF) features support as well as features in new FB engine versions.


 [1] AFAIK the core guys have plans to switch to VS2010/C++ as official
 compiler for engine too. :D

 --
 Jiri {x2} Cincura (CTO x2develop.com)
 http://blog.cincura.net/ | 
 http://www.ID3renamer.comhttp://www.id3renamer.com/


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Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4

[Jiri Cincura]

2010/1/4 Γιάννης Μπουρκέλης yiannis1...@gmail.com:
 Most Windows XP users do not have NET Framework 3.5 installed in their
 systems, so if they want to run a net framework 3.5 application, even if
 this application is only some megabytes, they will have to download the huge
 net 3.5 runtime, which is more than 50mb and I think that this is not good.

Yes, but this contains the 2.0 too, because of cumulative nature of
3.5. You can download only bootstrapper, resulting in smaller
download.
And also you're downloading this only once, like Flash Player or
Silverlight runtime.

Anyway. This is not the question. I'm asking developers and their
needs. They also know what the users have installed and are able to
install.

 Also most of the big Net component vendors, like Devexpress, infragistics
 etc are building their windows forms components targeting NET 2.0 and
 supporting VS 2005/2008. They know that they will lose a huge market share
 if they drop support for NET 2.0 in their windows forms components.

We're not dropping 2.0 support. We're only requiring to have 3.5
update (as it's not a new runtime) also present. But it's a good
point.

 I suggest to wait some more time before dropping Net 2.0 provider support.

Sure. As I said. It will not be done immediately.

 A good time to drop net 2.0 support will be when most of the Windows XP
 users move to windows 7 or a newer OS, with the Net 3.5 preinstalled.

I don't think, that OS penetration is good measurement whether to use
or not some version of SW. Fully upgraded XP box is almost as good as
W7, still very, very old, with old kernel, but good.

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[Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4

[Jiri Cincura]

Hi *,

as the new .NET 4 will be out soon I have couple of thoughts for
further development. Feel free to express your POVs as I definitely
don't know all corners where .NET provider is used.

1. Dropping .NET 2.0 support.
The .NET 3.0 and mainly .NET 3.5 is just update for .NET 2.0. There's
no new runtime or changes in bases. So there's no risk installing this
update. This step will provide us option to use new features and make
the code more clean and probably also faster. Taking into account
limited resources project has, this will also allow focus more on new
features.
Until the official .NET 4 release there will be still support for .NET
2.0. But not after it.
Builds for .NET 3.5 and .NET 4 will be provided on site as now.

2. CSC 4 will be the official compiler.
New compiler means (maybe) better code. New features and syntactic
sugars means faster development. You don't need to build provider
yourself so you are not affected by this. If you're building it
yourself you don't need VS2010 to install. Just use CSC thru
cmd/MSBuild and you're fine.
[1]

3. Switching the solution(s) to VS2010.
With 2. this is pretty obvious. As you're safe with us using new
compiler, this is more true for new IDE.
[1]

What I don't know is whether there's some demand on VS2005 DDEX
support dropping and extending support for new stuff in VS2008. VS2008
adds some really minor features, as far as I remember when checking
it, so it's probably not worth doing it. But maybe you have different
opinion.

The development overall will be still focused on new ADO.NET (incl.
EF) features support as well as features in new FB engine versions.


[1] AFAIK the core guys have plans to switch to VS2010/C++ as official
compiler for engine too. :D

-- 
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Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4

[André Litfin]

Hello Jiri,

happy new year!

I think dropping 2.0 FW support isn't a good idea as we are still using only
FW 2.0 for some reasons (installing FW 3.5 on client PCs without internet
connection in german language isn't possible).

André Litfin
Xsigns GmbH  Co. KG

 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: Jiri Cincura [mailto:disk...@cincura.net]
 Gesendet: Sonntag, 3. Januar 2010 17:20
 An: For users and developers of the Firebird .NET providers
 Betreff: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4
 
 Hi *,
 
 as the new .NET 4 will be out soon I have couple of thoughts for
 further development. Feel free to express your POVs as I definitely
 don't know all corners where .NET provider is used.
 
 1. Dropping .NET 2.0 support.
 The .NET 3.0 and mainly .NET 3.5 is just update for .NET 2.0. There's
 no new runtime or changes in bases. So there's no risk installing this
 update. This step will provide us option to use new features and make
 the code more clean and probably also faster. Taking into account
 limited resources project has, this will also allow focus more on new
 features.
 Until the official .NET 4 release there will be still support for .NET
 2.0. But not after it.
 Builds for .NET 3.5 and .NET 4 will be provided on site as now.
 
 2. CSC 4 will be the official compiler.
 New compiler means (maybe) better code. New features and syntactic
 sugars means faster development. You don't need to build provider
 yourself so you are not affected by this. If you're building it
 yourself you don't need VS2010 to install. Just use CSC thru
 cmd/MSBuild and you're fine.
 [1]
 
 3. Switching the solution(s) to VS2010.
 With 2. this is pretty obvious. As you're safe with us using new
 compiler, this is more true for new IDE.
 [1]
 
 What I don't know is whether there's some demand on VS2005 DDEX
 support dropping and extending support for new stuff in VS2008. VS2008
 adds some really minor features, as far as I remember when checking
 it, so it's probably not worth doing it. But maybe you have different
 opinion.
 
 The development overall will be still focused on new ADO.NET (incl.
 EF) features support as well as features in new FB engine versions.
 
 
 [1] AFAIK the core guys have plans to switch to VS2010/C++ as official
 compiler for engine too. :D
 
 --
 Jiri {x2} Cincura (CTO x2develop.com)
 http://blog.cincura.net/ | http://www.ID3renamer.com
 
 ---
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Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4

[Ivan Arabadzhiev]

Happy new year :)
Just to express a modes oppinion.
2.0 Support seems old enough to be dropped (although I am still actively  
using it). Sooner or later, Microsoft will forget it and there will be no  
other choice(like they did with the 2.0 sp2, which is not provided  
standalone).
I haven`t read the 4.0 what`s new, but I suppose it will provide reasons  
for migration (though I`ve never used 3.0/3.5) ... Anyway - the project  
would need to support the new framework, and the 2.0 provider seems stable  
enough to be left alone.
As for the VS support - I haven`t seen 2010. 2008 was I all ever dreamed  
of (and was a lot faster than 2005 too :)), but just like the 2.0  
framework - it will go, one way or another.

I`ve always believed in good old technology, but if the world was to  
follow the same path - I would be writing this letter on a type-writer ...
The provider is a great project, and I believe it will remain that way :)

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Re: [Firebird-net-provider] .NET 4

[Kjell Rilbe]

Jiri Cincura wrote:
 1. Dropping .NET 2.0 support.

Could there be a .Net 2.0 branch that would be kept alive for bugfixing
for a year or two, but no new features?

I would assume that those who are still on 2.0 for various reasons would
find it rather disappointing if 2.0 were to be dropped completely. Might
be a reason to switch away from FB?

For me personally, our project is on 3.5 so as long as 3.5 is supported
we're happy. Also, I suppose we would be able to upgrade to 4.0 as soon
as ECO (www.capableobjects.com) supports it.

Kjell
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Kjell Rilbe
DataDIA AB
E-post: kj...@datadia.se
Telefon: 08-761 06 55
Mobil: 0733-44 24 64



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