Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
On 1/26/06, ryanm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Who cares? I'll use whatever works the best. > > ryanm > Well said! :-D ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
My entire point is "cluttering the web is bad", can't believe you didn't see that. Or perhaps you just havent read the entire thread i dunno :) Sure, but for every new technology, 10 people will use it well, and 1000 will use it to clutter the web. Remember the blink tag? It's just the nature of the beast. You and I have to tolerate the clutter so that we can (hopefully) be one of the 10 who are producing real web apps that utilize whatever the new tech is. 3D on the web could be very useful for certain types of apps. It would be worse than PhotoShop bevels and dropshadows (or rainbow gradient backgrounds) on most of them. But without it, those few apps that can put it to good use don't get written. You gotta take the bad with the good, it's just life. So to reiterate: XAML as a web technology, and a platform dependent one at that, is bad. XAML as a generic applications development tool is NOT bad. XAML is as good as any other abstraction schema for your display layer. What's wrong it it for the web? Having a defined schema sure beats the hell out of having to write your own for every project that needs one, doesn't it? A lot of people like to lambast MS about creating "proprietary" tech rather than conforming to the "standards." What they usually fail to mention is that, both on the web and on the desktop, the majority of those "standards" were once "proprietary" MS implementations that were adopted into the standard. You like iframes? Div tags? Being able to choose to render block items as inline, or absolitely position them? At one time, *these* were the "proprietary" MS implementations that everyone complained about, asking why they couldn't just stick to the standard. Let them implement their proprietary ideas into the browser, and who knows, 2 years from now XAML may become the standard markup behind your display layer. Or not. Who cares? I'll use whatever works the best. ryanm ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
Perhaps "windows hardware" is a better term. You probably knew what i meant. My response was to someone claiming it was a good way to put 3d on the web. If i had a GENERAL dislike of whatever the hell let you put 3d on a screen i'd have bigger problems than sparkle. Hell i do C# at work, and the component architecture and just generally getting stuff up quick is very impressive. MS *know* dev tools, thats got nothing to do with it. If MS did a Visual Actionscript 3, i'd probably implode with joy. My entire point is "cluttering the web is bad", can't believe you didn't see that. Or perhaps you just havent read the entire thread i dunno :) So to reiterate: XAML as a web technology, and a platform dependent one at that, is bad. XAML as a generic applications development tool is NOT bad. - Andreas ryanm wrote: you mean intel chips? or the usual pc architecture? things like phones and other mobile devices, non microsoft gaming platforms for example. I don't know, he said it, I was just responding to it. The quote was: "As long as they use their tools, and make their customers conform to PC hardware." ryanm ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- - Andreas Rønning --- Flash guy Rayon Visual Concepts, Oslo, Norway --- ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
you mean intel chips? or the usual pc architecture? things like phones and other mobile devices, non microsoft gaming platforms for example. I don't know, he said it, I was just responding to it. The quote was: "As long as they use their tools, and make their customers conform to PC hardware." ryanm ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
This is exactly why Im hoping for so much from Apollo. Flash needs to bridge the gap a little with desktop and web. I love how flash is small and has penetration through the roof. If Adobe were to extend the 8.5 player just a little bit to allow desktop programmers more access to its, it could really hold alot of people in this area. anyway its gonna take some time for things to pan out here, and once the dust has settled Im sure well see some cool content made with sparkle. For now Im sticking with flash and flex 2 (yay) and will continue to "Play" with sparkle just out of interest. Cheers Cam. > > i've read specs, watched demonstrations, i've TRIED to be excited, but all > > i can tell is that it's another proprietary tech trying to cash in on a > > growing market. > > > Which specs did you read and which demos did you watch? Certainly not > the same ones I've read and watched. First of all Sparkle doesn't even play > the same *sport* as Flash, let alone in the same field. The uses of Sparkle > in the browser will be next to nil for at least several years. The few uses > it has in a browser will be reserved for special purpose, controlled > enviornment applications, and are in no way a threat to Flash. So I guess I > don't know where any of this rant comes from. > > Sparkle is awesome. It is a major step in the right direction in terms > of workflow improvement and abstraction of display (view, presentation, > whatever) layer code. It has little to nothing to do with the web right now. > It has to do with building user interfaces for applications that will run on > Longhorn. > Yes, it's properietary. So is Windows. Get over it and find something > meaningful to argue about. > > Oh, and your rant about forcing people to use PC hardware, WTF? What > platform *doesn't* use PC hardware these days? > > ryanm > > ___ > Flashcoders mailing list > Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com > http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders > > ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
Oh, and your rant about forcing people to use PC hardware, WTF? What platform *doesn't* use PC hardware these days? you mean intel chips? or the usual pc architecture? things like phones and other mobile devices, non microsoft gaming platforms for example. anyway, its a sparkle thread again, im a bad boy for even joining in. maybe a new list 'sparkleflames' is in order. :) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
i've read specs, watched demonstrations, i've TRIED to be excited, but all i can tell is that it's another proprietary tech trying to cash in on a growing market. Which specs did you read and which demos did you watch? Certainly not the same ones I've read and watched. First of all Sparkle doesn't even play the same *sport* as Flash, let alone in the same field. The uses of Sparkle in the browser will be next to nil for at least several years. The few uses it has in a browser will be reserved for special purpose, controlled enviornment applications, and are in no way a threat to Flash. So I guess I don't know where any of this rant comes from. Sparkle is awesome. It is a major step in the right direction in terms of workflow improvement and abstraction of display (view, presentation, whatever) layer code. It has little to nothing to do with the web right now. It has to do with building user interfaces for applications that will run on Longhorn. Yes, it's properietary. So is Windows. Get over it and find something meaningful to argue about. Oh, and your rant about forcing people to use PC hardware, WTF? What platform *doesn't* use PC hardware these days? ryanm ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
Hi Andreas, To clarify, my statement was not directed at you only, but I can say that it certainly did include you. On the topic of opinion, I agree that an opinion free approach is dangerous to the ignorant, but only dangerous in this situation if we're to say that we're all ignorant as children are. Not to doubt the contrary, becase we all aren't ignorant either. My point is that if we're able to reason and adjust our opinions, we can accually come to a collective agreement, regardless of whether one is ignorant or not. I apologize, I should have been more specific about the type of opinion; I feel that assumptions are being made, and these are opinions of inexperience. I apologize because I agree that opinions should be held, but not defended until a reasonable amount of consideration of the opposing argument is made. There is truth in this discussion, but it is yet to be known, therefore the opinions we do have should not be as strong as you believe they should be. In this particular case, most arguments presented are assumptions of the future. They should be treated as that, and noone should take offense. I hope I was able to actualize my idea accurately this time around. High Regards, H On 1/25/06, Andreas Rønning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > last post from me on this thread so we can put it to rest and all agree > that i was an opinionated dick and that nothing really matters. > > I don't really pay much attention to what MIGHT happen. What the web is > like in 2060 is of no consequence to me or my job. I will however put my > family's honor at stake over the validity of my argument; the web in its > current state, where browsers are slowly becoming more and more > compliant and compatible, with IE6 the only real bastard left on the > block, requires patience and respect from developers to allow it to grow > and mature properly, so that the end user can grow and mature right > along with it. > > Watching MS prepare to dump another load of proprietary junk on the > market only to watch it fizz out over the next 4-5 years or so isn't > something i'm totally stoked about, and i've read specs, watched > demonstrations, i've TRIED to be excited, but all i can tell is that > it's another proprietary tech trying to cash in on a growing market. > > Opinion free approaches is the worst side of leftism. In a child's > upbringing moral ambiguity is not only stupid but dangerous, and if > people don't feel strongly about things they're better off not talking > about them at all. As far as i can see, the only bickering here is me > stating my opinion, and some others facing it down on the basis that > it's close minded. I don't mean to attack other people's opinions, but i > think i have the right to state my own. > > Anywho, sorry if i come off horrid. I've had a rough day/week/month so > far. nd i've used the word "web" so many times now it's starting to > sound funny to me O_o > > - Andreas > > Marc Hoffman wrote: > > I'd have to agree with elibol. And, just as a reminder, here are some > > famously wrong expert predictions about what would or wouldn't happen in > > our industry:"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons." > > -- Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949 > > > > "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." > > -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943 > > > > "I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with > > the best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that > > won't last out the year." > > -- The editor in charge of business books for Prentice Hall, 1957 > > > > "But what ... is it good for?" > > -- Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, > > 1968,commenting on the microchip. > > > > "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." > > -- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment > > Corp., 1977 > > > > At 08:24 AM 1/25/2006, you wrote: > > > >> Hi friends, > >> > >> I agree with Adrian, polar extremes never solve anything, they cause > >> people > >> to take sides and bicker endlessly. I can see it happening already. An > >> opinion free approach would be most intelligent, there is no telling > what > >> you will run into if you give your presuppositions a rest. > > > > > > > > ___ > > Flashcoders mailing list > > Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com > > http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders > > -- > > - Andreas Rønning > > --- > Flash guy > Rayon Visual Concepts, Oslo, Norway > --- > ___ > Flashcoders mailing list > Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com > http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders > ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mail
Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
last post from me on this thread so we can put it to rest and all agree that i was an opinionated dick and that nothing really matters. I don't really pay much attention to what MIGHT happen. What the web is like in 2060 is of no consequence to me or my job. I will however put my family's honor at stake over the validity of my argument; the web in its current state, where browsers are slowly becoming more and more compliant and compatible, with IE6 the only real bastard left on the block, requires patience and respect from developers to allow it to grow and mature properly, so that the end user can grow and mature right along with it. Watching MS prepare to dump another load of proprietary junk on the market only to watch it fizz out over the next 4-5 years or so isn't something i'm totally stoked about, and i've read specs, watched demonstrations, i've TRIED to be excited, but all i can tell is that it's another proprietary tech trying to cash in on a growing market. Opinion free approaches is the worst side of leftism. In a child's upbringing moral ambiguity is not only stupid but dangerous, and if people don't feel strongly about things they're better off not talking about them at all. As far as i can see, the only bickering here is me stating my opinion, and some others facing it down on the basis that it's close minded. I don't mean to attack other people's opinions, but i think i have the right to state my own. Anywho, sorry if i come off horrid. I've had a rough day/week/month so far. nd i've used the word "web" so many times now it's starting to sound funny to me O_o - Andreas Marc Hoffman wrote: I'd have to agree with elibol. And, just as a reminder, here are some famously wrong expert predictions about what would or wouldn't happen in our industry:"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949 "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943 "I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with the best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that won't last out the year." -- The editor in charge of business books for Prentice Hall, 1957 "But what ... is it good for?" -- Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968,commenting on the microchip. "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977 At 08:24 AM 1/25/2006, you wrote: Hi friends, I agree with Adrian, polar extremes never solve anything, they cause people to take sides and bicker endlessly. I can see it happening already. An opinion free approach would be most intelligent, there is no telling what you will run into if you give your presuppositions a rest. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- - Andreas Rønning --- Flash guy Rayon Visual Concepts, Oslo, Norway --- ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
I'd have to agree with elibol. And, just as a reminder, here are some famously wrong expert predictions about what would or wouldn't happen in our industry:"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949 "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943 "I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with the best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that won't last out the year." -- The editor in charge of business books for Prentice Hall, 1957 "But what ... is it good for?" -- Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968,commenting on the microchip. "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977 At 08:24 AM 1/25/2006, you wrote: Hi friends, I agree with Adrian, polar extremes never solve anything, they cause people to take sides and bicker endlessly. I can see it happening already. An opinion free approach would be most intelligent, there is no telling what you will run into if you give your presuppositions a rest. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
Hi friends, I agree with Adrian, polar extremes never solve anything, they cause people to take sides and bicker endlessly. I can see it happening already. An opinion free approach would be most intelligent, there is no telling what you will run into if you give your presuppositions a rest. The bottom line is that when an idea is taken seriously, it's clear that there is much to consider. 3D on the web opens and closes doors, like any change in life does (not just technology). What is important is exploring the effects of the new technology, not with reasoning motivations for defeating opposing arguments. I hope noone takes offense to my approach, I'm simply of the opinion that we should stick together as internet programmers. H ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
I have to agree with most of what Andreas is saying. IMO, Microsoft with the help of ex-flash developers and designers knew that Flash was a very powerful tool if it was slightly pushed in one direction. The naysayers that Andreas mentioned are or were completely mistaken about Flash and ActionScript and Microsoft knows it. They believe that if they clone Flash and back it they will get the naysayers to ante up, but it will be for M$ pockets. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
he establishment to be broken down and destroyed, it isn't a hampering factor, it is a unifying factor. As for games? We have decent 3d online NOW with Shockwave 3d. I've seen a working Unreal tournament in Shockwave with a great framerate and decent AI. It just hasn't taken off, and it probably won't anytime soon. Why? Because it's an aberration. It's an abnormality that confuses and destabilizes. As a gamer, i will never play a game in a browser because that's not what a browser is for. For that i'll hook up my gamecube or pick up my PSP. Putting a technological shove into online 3d is like designing a car that can double as a screwdriver. As much as i dig what MS did with the xbox, Sparkle and the whole 3d kajoozle is just another way for them to integrate the web tighter with their whole crazy Live idea, and it's an ugly thing that messes up for developers and users alike. And i'm not a mac user btw :P - Andreas Nick Weekes wrote: David, I tend to agree with what your saying. Although Im definitely in the RIA camp, it seems ridiculous to criticise the development of a technology such as this simply because of what the 'average consumer' wants. How about using the games industry to make my point? If this technology is successful (either for Adobe or MS), then browser based DirectX online gaming isnt too far away. No 5Gb installs, just point to a URL and away you go. Dismissing the idea of decent 3D is wy too short sighted. Cheers, Nick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Skoglund Sent: 25 January 2006 10:26 To: 'Flashcoders mailing list' Subject: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle OK, you maybe YOU don't care much for it, but a RIA-platform needs to be flexible as possible and give the developers as much freedom as possible. Content rules, but why restrict content to 2d? I'm not talking about wacky 3d interfaces where they are clearly not needed, but games, simulations, product presentations etc. As I see it Macromedia has always been making good tools for creating interactive experiences but are now trying hard with Flex 2 to compete in the corporate applications. Microsoft comes from the opposite side. They already have most of the corporate developers, and are now trying to get the designers attention. And looking at the feature lists they seem to beat Macromedia on their own turf... I hope that Macromedia/Adobe can compete. Shockwave 3d has a very steep learning curve and it's just in the last couple of years that people have really learned to create really nice games with it. Look for example att my own first try on creating a shockwave 3d-game: www.monsterland.se/snowwarfare I wouldn't have been able to create this without the tutorials and helpful communities that's been built up during the years. In my view Macromedia had a good state of the art product, but threw it away since it didn't create short term profit. Sparkle on the other side seems quite easy to get into. The 3d-functions are well integrated into the IDE so you can navigate between 3d-models in a scene as easily as you do between movie clips in flash. And there are lot's of features beside this 3d-part. Intresting times ahead! /David -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För Andreas Rønning Skickat: den 25 januari 2006 10:58 Till: Flashcoders mailing list Ämne: Re: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle I couldn't give less of a crap about putting 3d on the web, and i'm pretty sure the average consumer agrees with me. Content rules. I seem to recall Shockwave 3d not ever really taking off, and if 3d is the only thing sparkle has over Flash it ain't gonna do much good as a competitor. - Andreas David Skoglund wrote: so why does someone post it to this list ? Since it's going to be a direct competitor/alternative to Flash, and since it's pushed by Microsoft. Wether you like it or not you'll need to keep your eyes on what happening over there. Personally I think it's great to finally see a promising new standard for creating web 3d. Hopefully Adobe can create a competitive 3d-solution to integrate i flash, but looking at Acrobat 3d I'm not impressed, and they stopped developing Shockwave 3d a long time ago (still the best solution despite lack of updates last 5 years). /David ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- - Andreas Rønning --- Flash guy Rayon Visual Concepts, Oslo, Norway --- ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
"Consumers don't need it" It seems like you like to dictate what users need and not. One fact is that a LOT average users DO play games in their browser even if you don't. "The internet reads like a book." No it doesn't. If you believe so I really don't understand why you're on a flash developer list in the first place. "It wasnt until recently that Flash became even remotely accepted by the average consumer..." Yes it's going take a long time until (if ever) XAML is a universal standard, the way flash is. But if any company has the power to make it so it's Microsoft. "MS have a history of introducing products that weaken the integrity of the web" I partly agree (Messenger etc), but XAML seems like a very open format and Microsoft is inviting other developers to create tools for creating applications. /David -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För Andreas Rønning Skickat: den 25 januari 2006 12:46 Till: Flashcoders mailing list Ämne: Re: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle Sparkle doesn't supply decent 3d. xaml 3d is little more than vrml 2006. It's not even a step in the right direction, it's just an excuse to use directx online, and frankly, putting directx online is a shit idea that dilutes the web. Complete and utter cross platform compatibility is a simple absolute that web developers MUST conform to. MS have a history of introducing products that weaken the integrity of the web, and i'm in no way a fan of any sort. The average consumer dictates what technology makes money. This is another truth. It wasnt until recently that Flash became even remotely accepted by the average consumer, and we are only now beginning to reap the true benefits of that acceptance. Sparkle is another hurdle, more noise in the ether. Consumers don't need it, developers don't need it. The only party requiring Sparkle-type-content is the kind of bloated site Flash has been criticized the most for since its inception, and in that regard Sparkle, to me, looks like Flash 4 with polygons and an even more limited user base. The internet reads like a book. This is why it works with smartphones, this is why it works with Nokia series 40 phones, this is why it works with tablets, laptops, desktop computers, and why puretext browsers like lynx are an actual viability. This flat book structure isn't a brick of the establishment to be broken down and destroyed, it isn't a hampering factor, it is a unifying factor. As for games? We have decent 3d online NOW with Shockwave 3d. I've seen a working Unreal tournament in Shockwave with a great framerate and decent AI. It just hasn't taken off, and it probably won't anytime soon. Why? Because it's an aberration. It's an abnormality that confuses and destabilizes. As a gamer, i will never play a game in a browser because that's not what a browser is for. For that i'll hook up my gamecube or pick up my PSP. Putting a technological shove into online 3d is like designing a car that can double as a screwdriver. As much as i dig what MS did with the xbox, Sparkle and the whole 3d kajoozle is just another way for them to integrate the web tighter with their whole crazy Live idea, and it's an ugly thing that messes up for developers and users alike. And i'm not a mac user btw :P - Andreas Nick Weekes wrote: > David, > > I tend to agree with what your saying. Although Im definitely in the RIA > camp, it seems ridiculous to criticise the development of a technology such > as this simply because of what the 'average consumer' wants. > > How about using the games industry to make my point? If this technology is > successful (either for Adobe or MS), then browser based DirectX online > gaming isnt too far away. No 5Gb installs, just point to a URL and away you > go. > > Dismissing the idea of decent 3D is wy too short sighted. > > Cheers, > > Nick > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David > Skoglund > Sent: 25 January 2006 10:26 > To: 'Flashcoders mailing list' > Subject: SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle > > OK, you maybe YOU don't care much for it, but a RIA-platform needs to be > flexible as possible and give the developers as much freedom as possible. > Content rules, but why restrict content to 2d? I'm not talking about wacky > 3d interfaces where they are clearly not needed, but games, simulations, > product presentations etc. > > As I see it Macromedia has always been making good tools for creating > interactive experiences but are now trying hard with Flex 2 to compete in > the corporate applications. Microsoft comes from the
SV: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle
OK, you maybe YOU don't care much for it, but a RIA-platform needs to be flexible as possible and give the developers as much freedom as possible. Content rules, but why restrict content to 2d? I'm not talking about wacky 3d interfaces where they are clearly not needed, but games, simulations, product presentations etc. As I see it Macromedia has always been making good tools for creating interactive experiences but are now trying hard with Flex 2 to compete in the corporate applications. Microsoft comes from the opposite side. They already have most of the corporate developers, and are now trying to get the designers attention. And looking at the feature lists they seem to beat Macromedia on their own turf... I hope that Macromedia/Adobe can compete. Shockwave 3d has a very steep learning curve and it's just in the last couple of years that people have really learned to create really nice games with it. Look for example att my own first try on creating a shockwave 3d-game: www.monsterland.se/snowwarfare I wouldn't have been able to create this without the tutorials and helpful communities that's been built up during the years. In my view Macromedia had a good state of the art product, but threw it away since it didn't create short term profit. Sparkle on the other side seems quite easy to get into. The 3d-functions are well integrated into the IDE so you can navigate between 3d-models in a scene as easily as you do between movie clips in flash. And there are lot's of features beside this 3d-part. Intresting times ahead! /David -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För Andreas Rønning Skickat: den 25 januari 2006 10:58 Till: Flashcoders mailing list Ämne: Re: SV: [Flashcoders] Microsoft Sparkle I couldn't give less of a crap about putting 3d on the web, and i'm pretty sure the average consumer agrees with me. Content rules. I seem to recall Shockwave 3d not ever really taking off, and if 3d is the only thing sparkle has over Flash it ain't gonna do much good as a competitor. - Andreas David Skoglund wrote: >>so why does someone post it to this list ? > > Since it's going to be a direct competitor/alternative to Flash, and since > it's pushed by Microsoft. Wether you like it or not you'll need to keep your > eyes on what happening over there. > Personally I think it's great to finally see a promising new standard for > creating web 3d. Hopefully Adobe can create a competitive 3d-solution to > integrate i flash, but looking at Acrobat 3d I'm not impressed, and they > stopped developing Shockwave 3d a long time ago (still the best solution > despite lack of updates last 5 years). > /David > ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.22/239 - Release Date: 2006-01-24 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.22/239 - Release Date: 2006-01-24 ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
