Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Server Alternatives
One last note all. There is a signup for the Zorn public beta on the Flex 2 FAQ page at Macromedia.com. I recomend you sign up if you want a peak at the future. http://www.macromedia.com/devnet/flex/articles/flex2_intro.html (down at the bottom)On 9/30/05, agnisys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Thanks to all who participated in this discussion. It was very informative. I now understand that some new things are coming from MM that could be more suitable for what I need to do. In the mean time, I have settled on Laszlo as the alternative. I will be keeping a close eye on new announcements to see if MM decides to enter the small to mid-size web application developer market. Thanks, Anupam. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group flexcoders on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- Chris Phillipswww.dealerpeak.comSenior Application Developer -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[flexcoders] Re: Flex Server Alternatives
Hi all, Thanks to all who participated in this discussion. It was very informative. I now understand that some new things are coming from MM that could be more suitable for what I need to do. In the mean time, I have settled on Laszlo as the alternative. I will be keeping a close eye on new announcements to see if MM decides to enter the small to mid-size web application developer market. Thanks, Anupam. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/nhFolB/TM ~- -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[flexcoders] Re: Flex Server Alternatives
I just purchased a 4 cpu license. Does this mean that there is no worth in it when zorn comes out? Will I get the new flex for free? Or do I have to pay all that money again? I hope Macromedia sorts all that out. Alex --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, sam / pixelconsumption [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: at MAX almost 50% of the sessions are about Zorn or include Zorn some how, I'm sure we'll all have a clear picture of what the future holds after MAX. // sam robbins // pixelconsumption Clint Modien wrote: According to Mike Chambers @ MM Zorn will http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mesh/archives/2005/08/will_zorn_requi.c fm On 9/29/05, *Kevin Langdon* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WARNING: This message contains little-to-no helpful information and for the most part is a rant. The problem with Flex pricing isn't the price itself. The problem is it's model. Most development I have seen is only using Flex as a compiler, not a service. Most applications would actually perform better if developers simply compiled locally using mxmlc and then used non-Flex technologies like Remoting or openAMF on their production servers. More developers, able to develop in this architecture, need to bring this up with Macromedia. Macromedia needs to understand that we are willing to pay them for the CPUs that we compile on, but it is just ridiculous to expect us to pay for the servers serving those static swf files. Flash is a client-side technology. It has nothing to do with servers and therefore CPU pricing makes no sense. What if I were to build a desktop application compiled using Flex? Is Macromedia telling me that I need to pay for each one of my user's CPUs? I am holding my breath hoping that Zorn fixes this problem. Kevin -Original Message- From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Niklas Richardson Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 4:43 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex Server Alternatives Someone might have mentioned this already, but I haven't seen it. If you want some of the functionality of Flex (i.e. forms, data grid, etc...) and cost is an issue, then ColdFusion MX 7 could be an option for you. It has a very cut down version of Flex built into it and accessible via ColdFusion tags, however you can still build some pretty good app's with it - if budget is an issue. Also, there are plenty of companies providing ColdFusion MX 7 hosting. Check out the team over at ASFusion (http://www.asfusion.com/) who are really doing some cool stuff using ColdFusion MX 7 Flash Forms! Also, http://www.cfform.com/. On 29/09/05, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/29/05, Tariq Ahmed [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I don't know if I would venture to dirt cheap. What other systems are you referring to? See SAP for starters, then once you jump that hurdle, now look at anything with the word ORACLE in it. If you're enterprise, and building mission critical apps, and especially if it affects financial performance and need to be SOX compliant you're basic setup is: - 1 Development WS - 1 QA Server - High Availability Setup (at least 2 load balanced machines). - Disaster Recovery Site (min 1 web server). If you're using decent hardware with 4CPU Xeons, you've got 5 machines * 4 cpus/ea = 20 CPUs * $15K/cpu = $300 000. You would have to REALLY boost automation, workflow efficiency, etc... to recuperate the cost of Flex licensing and Flex application development (not everyone is Scott Barnes level super coder) vs a CF/Whatever based solution. Not to say that it can't be done, and I'm You'd still outlay the same costs if not more with a HTML based solution such as CFMX. Furthermore, if you are to comply with SOX you have to jump through a bit more hurdles in authenticating the HTML solution is immune to various DOS attacks (injection attacks, packet sniffing the works). Then you have resources and costs associated to building a HTML application. If you are going down the path of the AJAX momentum, good luck in comparing the two. I'm also
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Server Alternatives
Zorn is not Mistral; while Zorn is a plugin for Eclipse, it is NOT a server component like the Flex server is currently. Huge difference. - Original Message - From: Alex Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Server Alternatives I just purchased a 4 cpu license. Does this mean that there is no worth in it when zorn comes out? Will I get the new flex for free? Or do I have to pay all that money again? I hope Macromedia sorts all that out. Alex --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, sam / pixelconsumption [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: at MAX almost 50% of the sessions are about Zorn or include Zorn some how, I'm sure we'll all have a clear picture of what the future holds after MAX. // sam robbins // pixelconsumption Clint Modien wrote: According to Mike Chambers @ MM Zorn will http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mesh/archives/2005/08/will_zorn_requi.c fm On 9/29/05, *Kevin Langdon* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WARNING: This message contains little-to-no helpful information and for the most part is a rant. The problem with Flex pricing isn't the price itself. The problem is it's model. Most development I have seen is only using Flex as a compiler, not a service. Most applications would actually perform better if developers simply compiled locally using mxmlc and then used non-Flex technologies like Remoting or openAMF on their production servers. More developers, able to develop in this architecture, need to bring this up with Macromedia. Macromedia needs to understand that we are willing to pay them for the CPUs that we compile on, but it is just ridiculous to expect us to pay for the servers serving those static swf files. Flash is a client-side technology. It has nothing to do with servers and therefore CPU pricing makes no sense. What if I were to build a desktop application compiled using Flex? Is Macromedia telling me that I need to pay for each one of my user's CPUs? I am holding my breath hoping that Zorn fixes this problem. Kevin -Original Message- From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Niklas Richardson Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 4:43 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex Server Alternatives Someone might have mentioned this already, but I haven't seen it. If you want some of the functionality of Flex (i.e. forms, data grid, etc...) and cost is an issue, then ColdFusion MX 7 could be an option for you. It has a very cut down version of Flex built into it and accessible via ColdFusion tags, however you can still build some pretty good app's with it - if budget is an issue. Also, there are plenty of companies providing ColdFusion MX 7 hosting. Check out the team over at ASFusion (http://www.asfusion.com/) who are really doing some cool stuff using ColdFusion MX 7 Flash Forms! Also, http://www.cfform.com/. On 29/09/05, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/29/05, Tariq Ahmed [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I don't know if I would venture to dirt cheap. What other systems are you referring to? See SAP for starters, then once you jump that hurdle, now look at anything with the word ORACLE in it. If you're enterprise, and building mission critical apps, and especially if it affects financial performance and need to be SOX compliant you're basic setup is: - 1 Development WS - 1 QA Server - High Availability Setup (at least 2 load balanced machines). - Disaster Recovery Site (min 1 web server). If you're using decent hardware with 4CPU Xeons, you've got 5 machines * 4 cpus/ea = 20 CPUs * $15K/cpu = $300 000. You would have to REALLY boost automation, workflow efficiency, etc... to recuperate the cost of Flex licensing and Flex application development (not everyone is Scott Barnes level super coder) vs a CF/Whatever based solution. Not to say that it can't be done, and I'm You'd still outlay the same costs if not more with a HTML based solution such as CFMX. Furthermore, if you are to comply with SOX you have to jump through a bit more hurdles in authenticating the HTML solution
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Server Alternatives
On 9/29/05, Alex Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just purchased a 4 cpu license. Does this mean that there is no worth in it when zorn comes out? Will I get the new flex for free? Or do I have to pay all that money again? I hope Macromedia sorts all that out. Disclaimer: I don't work for Macromedia and have no insider info on future products. That being said, when you initially purchase Flex, it comes with a 12 month maintenance subscription built into the price, which means that you'll get any and all upgrades free of charge during that period. After the 12 month period, you have the option of renewing your license(s) at 20% of the *current list price.* (I emphasize that last point because we got burned on that recently because Macromedia more than doubled the price of Flex since we purchased our initial licenses and wound up being asked to pay the equivalent of 50% in maintenance fees! Our sales rep did help us reach a satisfactory conclusion though.) So yes, if you bought your licenses recently, Zorn/Mistral should be out within that time period and you will get the upgrades for fee. As for the value, well I guess that remains to be seen, as Macromedia has not discussed (even internally I would imagine) which features are going to in the the stripped down version and the full version. As a long-time ColdFusion developer, where there has always been a Professional and Enterprise edition, I can tell you that there is always a certain set of features found only in the Enterprise edition that makes that edition compelling and worth having. Whether or not Macromedia/Adobe chooses to follow that same path with Flex is up to them, but they do have a solid record of making sure that there is value in the dollars (or whatever currency you use) you spend on a specific product edition. I don't think Zorn/Mistral is even in a beta phase yet, so we're obviously getting way ahead of things at the moment. But if history is any indicator, you have not wasted your money with your recent purchase. Regards, Dave. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/nhFolB/TM ~- -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Server Alternatives
Hi, If you have maintanence, you will get Flex future versions for no additional charge. You will not have to pay again and there is (IMO) a lot of worth in it, and in the path to Flex 2.0 that you are on. -David Macromedia -Original Message- From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Alex Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:40 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Flex Server Alternatives I just purchased a 4 cpu license. Does this mean that there is no worth in it when zorn comes out? Will I get the new flex for free? Or do I have to pay all that money again? I hope Macromedia sorts all that out. Alex --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, sam / pixelconsumption [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: at MAX almost 50% of the sessions are about Zorn or include Zorn some how, I'm sure we'll all have a clear picture of what the future holds after MAX. // sam robbins // pixelconsumption Clint Modien wrote: According to Mike Chambers @ MM Zorn will http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mesh/archives/2005/08/will_zorn_requi.c fm On 9/29/05, *Kevin Langdon* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WARNING: This message contains little-to-no helpful information and for the most part is a rant. The problem with Flex pricing isn't the price itself. The problem is it's model. Most development I have seen is only using Flex as a compiler, not a service. Most applications would actually perform better if developers simply compiled locally using mxmlc and then used non-Flex technologies like Remoting or openAMF on their production servers. More developers, able to develop in this architecture, need to bring this up with Macromedia. Macromedia needs to understand that we are willing to pay them for the CPUs that we compile on, but it is just ridiculous to expect us to pay for the servers serving those static swf files. Flash is a client-side technology. It has nothing to do with servers and therefore CPU pricing makes no sense. What if I were to build a desktop application compiled using Flex? Is Macromedia telling me that I need to pay for each one of my user's CPUs? I am holding my breath hoping that Zorn fixes this problem. Kevin -Original Message- From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Niklas Richardson Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 4:43 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Flex Server Alternatives Someone might have mentioned this already, but I haven't seen it. If you want some of the functionality of Flex (i.e. forms, data grid, etc...) and cost is an issue, then ColdFusion MX 7 could be an option for you. It has a very cut down version of Flex built into it and accessible via ColdFusion tags, however you can still build some pretty good app's with it - if budget is an issue. Also, there are plenty of companies providing ColdFusion MX 7 hosting. Check out the team over at ASFusion (http://www.asfusion.com/) who are really doing some cool stuff using ColdFusion MX 7 Flash Forms! Also, http://www.cfform.com/. On 29/09/05, Scott Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/29/05, Tariq Ahmed [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I don't know if I would venture to dirt cheap. What other systems are you referring to? See SAP for starters, then once you jump that hurdle, now look at anything with the word ORACLE in it. If you're enterprise, and building mission critical apps, and especially if it affects financial performance and need to be SOX compliant you're basic setup is: - 1 Development WS - 1 QA Server - High Availability Setup (at least 2 load balanced machines). - Disaster Recovery Site (min 1 web server). If you're using decent hardware with 4CPU Xeons, you've got 5 machines * 4 cpus/ea = 20 CPUs * $15K/cpu = $300 000. You would have to REALLY boost automation, workflow efficiency, etc... to recuperate the cost of Flex licensing and Flex application development (not everyone is Scott Barnes level super coder) vs a CF/Whatever based
