Re: [Flightgear-devel] Making of: jitter.png (Unix)

2006-08-19 Thread Roy Vegard Ovesen
On Friday 18 August 2006 17:41, Melchior FRANZ wrote:
[SNIP]
 Used software:
   fgfs, awk, kst (http://kst.kde.org/ -- free  GPL)


 (A) make sure fgfs outputs the relevant data. Logging could certainly be
 used for that, but I'm not half as familiar with it as with Nasal, so
 I simply put a line like the following in a Nasal file:

I've also used kst to plot properties in real-time. I used Flightgear's own 
logging.

This is very usefull when trying to tune the autopilot controllers.

[SNIP]


 PS: yes, I'm aware of gnuplot  :-)

Before someone on this list suggested using kst I used gnuplot, but I think 
kst is bettet suited as I can pan and zoom easily with the mouse.

-- 
Roy Vegard Ovesen

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Making of: jitter.png (Unix)

2006-08-19 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Roy Vegard Ovesen -- Saturday 19 August 2006 09:36:
 I've also used kst to plot properties in real-time. I used Flightgear's own 
 logging.

How are you doing it? Via FIFO or by writing to a file and letting kst
read from it? The most obvious way -- directly piping -- didn't work for
me, as kst gives up if there are no data within a few seconds. And fgfs
takes a while to spit out anything. I complained to the kst mailing list
and don't know yet what they think. But the FIFO isn't that bad for now.



 Before someone on this list suggested using kst

Yes, I had mentioned it a while back, but haven't ever used it for live
data ever since.   :-)

m.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] managed view option....

2006-08-19 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Syd -- Friday 18 August 2006 02:39:
 since I dont have rudder pedals , I cant get off the ground without spinning 
 like
 crazy until I get some forward momentum.(Yes , with auto coordination
 enabled ).

I cannot reproduce that. Can you give some more info? Is this on every
aircraft? Any other special circumstances? The view heading offset 
is determined from the accleration vector and size, and I don't see how
auto-coordination could create a strong  continuous acceleration on
a parked aircraft. Or is it only with JSBSim aircraft? 

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] managed view option....

2006-08-19 Thread Georg Vollnhals
Melchior FRANZ schrieb:
 * Syd -- Friday 18 August 2006 02:39:
   
 since I dont have rudder pedals , I cant get off the ground without spinning 
 like
 crazy until I get some forward momentum.(Yes , with auto coordination
 enabled ).
 

 I cannot reproduce that. Can you give some more info? Is this on every
 aircraft? Any other special circumstances? The view heading offset 
 is determined from the accleration vector and size, and I don't see how
 auto-coordination could create a strong  continuous acceleration on
 a parked aircraft. Or is it only with JSBSim aircraft? 

 m.

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Hi,

I had the same effect yesterday after downloading the new precompiled 
Win32 *.exe and the new CVS head data. When I started FG at KSFO with 
the BO105 I had a very fast left spin of the *view* (not the a/c) which 
could be terminated by just clicking the Toggle Dynamic Cockpit View. 
I could reproduce that every time I started FG and - at the same time - 
I had two menue entries of  Toggle ... (one at the top and one at the 
bottom). I could only switch the view manager via the bottom one.
When I saw that some further changes got submitted into CVS I reloaded 
the CVS data some hours later (late evening) and now all is working fine 
- no spinning, only one menue entry, switching the view manager works fine.
As a result, a new CVS head download might solve Syd's problem as it did 
for me :-)

Regards
Georg HeliFlyer EDDW

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[Flightgear-devel] managed view feedback

2006-08-19 Thread alexis bory
I tried it on the A-10 (10 takeoofs and landings).

First impression: wow !
It removes the common feeling of seeing the world trough fixed jail 
window bars, like as the 3D panel and the canopy frame were now part of 
the world; (very subjective).

Practical report:
- take-off: with 23 Knts cross wind, while the aircraft nose turns in 
the wind you have to give max rudder input before having an enough 
forward acceleration, the sight of view moves way to much at this time, 
it add also a great dificulty  to appreciate the rudder effects.
- landing: in the same conditions, hudge move of the sight of view when 
the wheels touch the runway.
- full throttle at 200 AGL in a realy curvy valley: wonderful ! very 
pleasant :)

Overall feeling: it gives something new wich approach a bit what you 
feel on your seat. Great!

Alexis


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[Flightgear-devel] Ground Traffic Control Breakthrough

2006-08-19 Thread Durk Talsma
Hey Folks,

Okay, it looks like I just managed to accomplish a significant breaktrough in 
AI traffic control for AIModels. I've set up a ground controller that 
monitors each taxiing aircraft's position and slows down those that are 
following too close. So far, I've only implimented a speed adjustment 
command, for this, but I'm planning on adding a Hold Position command along 
similar lines in the next few weeks.

Although it's pretty cool to see the controller work, the more significant 
step forward, in my opinion, is that it turns out that the switching between 
various ATC controllers fits in really smoothly with the AIModels / 
TrafficManager auto flightplan generation code. I have some ideas on how to 
set up the take off / approach (i.e. Tower) and climb / decent (i.e. 
approach / departure) controllers, but I'll post some more ideas about that 
later on. 

As I'm tracking development of the AI system in screen shots, I've uploaded a 
few new ones highlighting some of the bugs and features of the new system. 
The latest additions to the gallery start here:

http://durktalsma.xs4all.nl/FlightGear/web/46.html

B.t.w., the new code will probably remain in testing for a few more days 
before I'm committing it to CVS. 

Cheers,
Durk

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ground Traffic Control Breakthrough

2006-08-19 Thread Georg Vollnhals
Durk Talsma schrieb:
 Hey Folks,

 Okay, it looks like I just managed to accomplish a significant breaktrough in 
 AI traffic control for AIModels. I've set up a ground controller that 
 ...
 The latest additions to the gallery start here:

 http://durktalsma.xs4all.nl/FlightGear/web/46.html

   
Wow, this will be a big step forward!
In the future, I really would like sitting in the virtual tower and 
having a look at the AI-traffic. Or approaching an airport and heaving 
some more metal in the virtual skies!
Great work, thank you!
Regards
Georg HeliFlyer EDDW



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] RTT issue with ATI cards (3d clouds)

2006-08-19 Thread Christopher HORLER
On Saturday 19 August 2006 00:19, Jocelyn Couetdic wrote:
 I did some quick and dirty debugging in the RenderTexture class (using
 the TestRenderTexture program), and find out, that the reason it doesn't
 work, is that neither GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, or GLX_SGIX_pbuffer extensions
 are supported by the ATI GLX implementation :
You're wrong (last entry below)
fglrxinfo -x
cut for clarity
glx server extensions:
GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating,
GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_OML_swap_method, GLX_SGI_make_current_read,
GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_hyperpipe, GLX_SGIX_swap_barrier,
GLX_SGIX_fbconfig

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim jitter (was: Re: How to turn offmanaged-view?)

2006-08-19 Thread Jon S. Berndt
 Here's a graph that illustrates it:

   http://members.aon.at/mfranz/jitter.png  [20 kB]

 Command line was

   $ fgfs --aircraft=OV10_USAFE --airport=krhv --disable-real-weather-fetch

 and a few settings in local preferences.xml (nothing relevant). SimGear 
 FlightGear from CVS/HEAD, of course. Plotted properties are:

   /velocities/uBody-fps
   /accelerations/pilot/y-accel-fps_sec

 No other part of fgfs messed with them AFAIK, only JSBSim. The only thing
 that I did was accelerating and braking. Nothing else. (y-axis is
 fgfs frames,
 that is, one pair of value output 14 times per second. Yeah, bad fps! :-)

 m.

In the near term, if you add a higher-frequency filter to the parameters
driving your view, you may be able to use your managed view code with more
JSBSim aircraft. Ideally, I'll get this resolved on our end soon, though.

Jon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] RTT issue with ATI cards (3d clouds)

2006-08-19 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Saturday 19 August 2006 16:27, Christopher HORLER wrote:
 On Saturday 19 August 2006 00:19, Jocelyn Couetdic wrote:
  I did some quick and dirty debugging in the RenderTexture class (using
  the TestRenderTexture program), and find out, that the reason it doesn't
  work, is that neither GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, or GLX_SGIX_pbuffer extensions
  are supported by the ATI GLX implementation :

 You're wrong (last entry below)
 fglrxinfo -x
 cut for clarity
 glx server extensions:
 GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating,
 GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_OML_swap_method, GLX_SGI_make_current_read,
 GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_hyperpipe, GLX_SGIX_swap_barrier,
 GLX_SGIX_fbconfig
No, he is not wrong.
You should not look into the server extensions nor into the client extensions. 
The only valid thing is (well, I had to learn that the hard way :)
GLX extensions that is in effect what the client *and* the server understands.
Here you don't have what you need for rendertexture.

I suffer from the same problem.

And I can see two ways to go: Either
- implement FBO's in rendertexture, or
- support me with switching to osg, they already have that including much 
more ...

   Greetings

  Mathias

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] RTT issue with ATI cards (3d clouds)

2006-08-19 Thread Christopher HORLER
On Saturday 19 August 2006 00:19, Jocelyn Couetdic wrote:
 - Or should the 3d clouds code be written to use the FramebufferObject,
 which seems to be (from what I could gather on the net) a replacement
 for older off-screen rendering and Rendering To Texture using pbuffers
 extensions.
 BTW, this GL_EXT_framebuffer_object is supported by the ATI drivers.
Probably - if it's found to be well supported.

My understanding was that it was an attempt at harmonisation of all the 
existing Pbuffer type objects.  However, it doesn't appear to be an ARB 
extension yet.

Regards,

Chris

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] managed view feedback

2006-08-19 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* alexis bory -- Saturday 19 August 2006 14:32:
 - take-off: with 23 Knts cross wind, while the aircraft nose turns in 
 the wind you have to give max rudder input before having an enough 
 forward acceleration, the sight of view moves way to much at this time, 
 it add also a great dificulty  to appreciate the rudder effects.
 - landing: in the same conditions, hudge move of the sight of view when 
 the wheels touch the runway.

Yes, that's a pain. I'm currently reworking that part. This was quite
hackish. I had used the same value for on-ground an in-air, only with
sign reversed (and a smooth transition). Now I do them separately.
In-air I'll just use a fraction of the negated side-slip angle, and on
ground I want to use something based on acceleration direction, multiplied
with a function that is 0 at standstill, raises to a couple of knots
and then converges against 0 again with speed. So at takeoff speed
there should be hardly any heading change left. Doesn't work yet. :-/



 - full throttle at 200 AGL in a realy curvy valley: wonderful ! very 
 pleasant :)

Yeah, that's nice. Although, after your report I flew a narrow/curvy valley
with the A-10 and found that the heading change due to roll is too much.
I'll reduce that a bit. (And in the end it should be configurable
anyway. Still searching for the most generic settings.)


 
 Overall feeling: it gives something new wich approach a bit what you 
 feel on your seat. Great!

:-)   Thanks for the report!

m.

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[Flightgear-devel] Avro Vulcan B2 for CVS

2006-08-19 Thread Buchanan, Stuart
Hi All,

I've finally finished the alpha release of the Avro Vulcan. It's available
from http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/vulcanb2.tar.gz.

Here's some screenshots:

http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/vulcan1.jpg
http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/vulcan2.jpg

It isn't by any means finished, but it is a lot of fun to scream around at
low level with.

Could someone put it into CVS for me please?

Enjoy!

-Stuart




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Avro Vulcan B2 for CVS

2006-08-19 Thread Buchanan, Stuart

--- Carsten Vogel wrote:
snip 
 Just for some feedback:
 
 - textures were blank when zooming in
Not sure what you mean. When zooming out, they start looking white because
of the FP imprecision

 - view-rotating point is plane's nose not the center (irritating, and 2x
 views were inside plane)
Yes, I've still got some work to do on that. Melchoir has put be on the
right track.

 - I simply was not able to find the runway on VFR =) (while on approach 
 final of my pattern)
Well, that'll be because the view out the window is so restricted.

 - how to cut of engine power? Still pushing forward, while throttle
 zeroed.
 - no effect of brakes/chute yet
Yup - still to do. I need to get some help from Jon on this.

 - lovely cockpit - i had to get used to this amatures =) just... nice.
Thanks.

 Excellent preview of a great plane! (Need some victors on my way to 
 holidays in Argentina//AAR done!)

A Victor tanker would be great. Maybe a special FG with Port Stanley for
the Black Buck anniversary?

Thanks very much for the feedback.

-Stuart




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Avro Vulcan B2 for CVS

2006-08-19 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Carsten Vogel -- Saturday 19 August 2006 18:31:
 - view-rotating point is plane's nose not the center (irritating, and 2x 
 views were inside plane)

Add this to the view 2 and 3 definitions in the vulcan2b-set.xml file:

   target-z-offset-m type=double archive=y16.7/target-z-offset-m

Without that the outside view isn't really enjoyable. Unfortunately,
Stuart didn't have the time to do it or authorize it.  :-/

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Making of: jitter.png (Unix)

2006-08-19 Thread Roy Vegard Ovesen
On Saturday 19 August 2006 09:44, Melchior FRANZ wrote:
 * Roy Vegard Ovesen -- Saturday 19 August 2006 09:36:
  I've also used kst to plot properties in real-time. I used Flightgear's
  own logging.

 How are you doing it? Via FIFO or by writing to a file and letting kst
 read from it?

I use FlightGear's logging system to log to a csv file, and let kst read that 
file. Kst updates as the file grows. The csv file has headings at the top and 
the first column is the time in seconds since start of fg.

I use the Data Wizard in kts to open the csv file. Kts recognises the column 
names and it automatically creates a culumn called INDEX. The INDEX column is 
probably supposed to be used for the horizontal x-axis, but since we already 
have a timestamp comlumn it's better to use that one for the x-axis.

It makes sense to check the Read to end checkmark in the select data screen 
of the wizard. After I'm done configuring kst and setting up all the plots 
that I need I save the kst plot file. The next time I start fg with logging I 
open that plot file in kst and it will of course read the data that fg is 
putting into the log file. I don't have to go through the wizard and the 
configuration of the plot layot every time.

 The most obvious way -- directly piping -- didn't work for 
 me, as kst gives up if there are no data within a few seconds. And fgfs
 takes a while to spit out anything. I complained to the kst mailing list
 and don't know yet what they think. But the FIFO isn't that bad for now.

I haven't tried the FIFO method, but the log file method works grat for me. 
Another advantage is that the data is stored in the log file. Not knowing 
everything about FIFOs I'm guessing that the data is only stored in kst 
with this method.


-- 
Roy Vegard Ovesen

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Avro Vulcan B2 for CVS

2006-08-19 Thread Ampere K. Hardraade
On Saturday 19 August 2006 14:40, Carsten Vogel wrote:
 FULLFEATURE:
 http://www.wh10.tu-dresden.de/~lego/fg/tempscreens/fgfs-screen-050-fullfeat
ured.jpg
hmm... alpha in texture... bad idea.

Ampere

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[Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: SimGear

2006-08-19 Thread Curtis L. Olson
2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d

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[Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: FlightGear source

2006-08-19 Thread Curtis L. Olson
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2006-08-14_16:59:44 (andy)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/Airplane.cpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/Airplane.hpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/ControlMap.cpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/ControlMap.hpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/FGFDM.cpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/Model.cpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/Model.hpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/RigidBody.cpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/Rotor.cpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/Rotor.hpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/Rotorblade.cpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/Rotorblade.hpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/Rotorpart.cpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/Rotorpart.hpp
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/Surface.cpp

Giant helicopter code update from Maik Justus.


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2006-08-16_04:58:26 (durk)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/Airports/groundnetwork.cxx
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/Airports/groundnetwork.hxx

Bugfix of problem reported by Mathias Fröhlich: Ground network trace()
algorithm caused a program crash. Because there is always one waypoint more
than there are routes, the trace function should only pop_back the final route
entry at search depths of one or higher. I also added a lot of of additional
safeguarding code, due to the fact that the new trace algorithm was
apparently not as stable as I'd hoped it would be. ...


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2006-08-19_02:30:52 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/Scenery/tilemgr.cxx

as the Attempting to schedule tiles for bogus lon and lat  = (-1000,0)
bug happens now on a regular basis, and just ignoring it doesn't seem to
cause any harm, just return after it, rather than abort.


2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d

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[Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: FlightGear data

2006-08-19 Thread Curtis L. Olson
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2006-08-13_02:53:33 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/Models/bo105.nas

minor re-organization


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2006-08-13_04:22:07 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/Models/bo105.nas

we need to override view.restView() and let it re-apply our offsets after
view resetting


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2006-08-13_05:40:13 (vmmeazza)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/seahawk/Models/seahawk.nas

Updated view management, and modified g-effect coefficients


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2006-08-13_12:25:37 (vmmeazza)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/seahawk/Models/SeaHawk-FGA6-WV859.ac

Updated view management, and make the cocpit tranaparencies one sided to 
enhance frame rate


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2006-08-13_12:25:38 (vmmeazza)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/seahawk/Models/seahawk.nas

Updated view management, and make the cocpit tranaparencies one sided to 
enhance frame rate


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2006-08-13_18:25:38 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/Models/bo105.nas

even better view management parameters, and still not perfect. Sigh ...


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2006-08-14_05:57:29 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/bo105-set.xml

- save longitudinal/lateral cyclic trim to autosave.xml. This is realistic,
  but I'm not entirely sure if it's a good idea, too. Someone might mis-trim
  his/her bo, and then have difficulties next time, without realizing the
  cause. Maybe make a checkbox for that in the bo config dialog ...

- use true scaling factor for the torque-meter. According to Maik:
  626000*0.9/(442/60*2*pi)=12000Nm = 100%  ... hence torque/120 == torque%
  (0.9 because the tail rotor eats 9% and the gear 1%; one Allison 250-C20B
  delivers 313kW.)
  Unfortunately, this makes torque% only go up to at most 95 at the moment,
  while it should reach around 123%.


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2006-08-14_05:57:30 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/Models/bo105.nas

- save longitudinal/lateral cyclic trim to autosave.xml. This is realistic,
  but I'm not entirely sure if it's a good idea, too. Someone might mis-trim
  his/her bo, and then have difficulties next time, without realizing the
  cause. Maybe make a checkbox for that in the bo config dialog ...

- use true scaling factor for the torque-meter. According to Maik:
  626000*0.9/(442/60*2*pi)=12000Nm = 100%  ... hence torque/120 == torque%
  (0.9 because the tail rotor eats 9% and the gear 1%; one Allison 250-C20B
  delivers 313kW.)
  Unfortunately, this makes torque% only go up to at most 95 at the moment,
  while it should reach around 123%.


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2006-08-14_11:31:24 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/bo105-set.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/Models/bo105.ac
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/Models/bo105.xml

- use correct rotor tilt (3 degree forward)
- use standard skids


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2006-08-14_14:40:27 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/bo105-set.xml

saving trim values is probably a good idea for every aircraft but helicopters;
cruise trimming is just unsuitable for takeoff


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2006-08-14_14:40:28 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/Models/bo105.nas

saving trim values is probably a good idea for every aircraft but helicopters;
cruise trimming is just unsuitable for takeoff


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2006-08-14_17:10:03 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/bo105.xml

Maik JUSTUS: new bo105 config after big helicopter FDM update


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2006-08-14_17:17:03 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/bo105.xml

cleanup:
- remove trailing spaces
- fix indentation, etc. etc.


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2006-08-14_17:23:34 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/bo105/Models/bo105.nas

remove support for old FDM (faked torque value)


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2006-08-14_17:38:59 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Docs/README.yasim
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Docs/README.yasim.rotor.png

Maik JUSTUS: YASim helicopter FDM update


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2006-08-14_17:42:51 (mfranz)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Docs/README.yasim

s/gif/png/


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2006-08-15_04:28:15 (mfranz)