Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Alasdair
On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 21:32 +0100, Alasdair wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 09:39 -0600, syd adams wrote:
  Im running Ubuntu , still get that problem.I've added the radar to my
  intrumentation file in my affected aircraft , and the problem is
  gone.Strange.
  Syd
  
  On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 2:23 AM, Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote:
   On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 01:06 +0200, ThorstenB wrote:
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com 
wrote:
After git pull (sg,fg,fgdata) a couple of days ago, I was presented 
with a
strange screen which I had not seen before. My regular was shown as a
sub-screen in the bottom-left corner. Clicking the maximise widget 
restores
full screen, but any click on a menu item returns me to this stupid 
screen.
Is this infuriating behaviour deliberate, or has my graphics driver 
gone
walk-about?
   
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fg_quarter-screen.png
  
   Unfortunately a long standing issue. This affects ATI graphics cards
   when running newer drivers. It can be fixed by reverting to an older
   ATI driver (see link below). To me it looked like a genuine OSG or ATI
   driver bug (the size of the graphics view port doesn't properly resize
   to the size of the window), but it's likely triggered by something
   special we're doing in FG, since other applications don't seem to have
   this issue.
  
   Also, it's timing-/sequence dependant: it only affects certain aircraft
   (aircraft using wxradar, which changes/delays the OSG init sequence on
   startup, are less likely to have the issue) - and for some people it
   dis- and reappears with certain FG builds.
  
   It would be really good if someone seeing the issue locally could
   properly debug this - even if it means digging into OSG - since a larger
   number of people are affected. I tried remote debugging this a while
   ago, but gave up after being unable to narrow it down inside FG. Maybe
   someone else has better luck.
  
   For more see here:
   http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=385
  
   cheers,
   Thorsten
  
   Thanks very much for the link, Thorsten, it is a good start. But strange
   that this problem, should just appear without any driver change. But I
   am using Debian SID, and update my system daily, so it could be
   OS-related.
   I will install UBUNTU and try the same build under  that OS.
  
   regards,
   Alasdair
  
 OK I tried building the same git version on Ubuntu (different gcc
 version) Same problem. Tried a complete fresh clone (sg/fg/fgdata) Same
 problem. Downloaded and built 2.8.0 and built with same script : NO
 problem. So this is a git problem and fairly recent too.
 0-
 Most aircraft I have tested behave properly, but the ones that have this
 strange viewport problem include : c172p, b1900d, SenecaII.
 
 The viewport changes immediately after the splash screen displays
 initializing graphics engine.
 
 Maybe someone can figure out what these have in common that the 707,
 737-300, 777-200ER, A-10, A300, aerostar700, alphajet, b29, bf109g,
 Bravo, c310, Citation*, CRJ700ER, Cub and pa24-250-CIIB do not.
 
 I cannot therefore attribute this problem to the Catalyst driver.
 My git pull/build of 12 Aug did not display this problem. That of 1 Sep
 did. So I reckon it must have been a commit made between these dates.
 
 Alasdair
 
Further research shows that for the b1900d  SenecaII, this problem goes
way back to 2.6.0. It has only become apparent (in my case) for the
c172p in recent git pulls. I will attempt to find exactly when, but I am
having to learn git as I go :-( Since the c172p is my aircraft of
choice, the problem has gone unnoticed up till now.

Thanks to all who are helping me resolve this issue.

Alasdair


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread James Turner

On 4 Sep 2012, at 11:43, Alasdair wrote:

 Further research shows that for the b1900d  SenecaII, this problem goes
 way back to 2.6.0. It has only become apparent (in my case) for the
 c172p in recent git pulls. I will attempt to find exactly when, but I am
 having to learn git as I go :-( Since the c172p is my aircraft of
 choice, the problem has gone unnoticed up till now.

I would be very cautious in your testing - from what Thorsten's already 
indicated, you are /not/ looking at a stable issue. There's certainly 
code-paths that bias it (wxradar apparently, and model complexity / texture 
complexity in general), but changing OS / driver / FG version and having the 
problem go away or re-appear doesn't conclusively indicate that a specific 
change was made in those things, that is causal for the bug.

In other words, changing your configuration (aircraft, rendering settings, 
drivers, who knows) may push you back-and-forth over the line where the bug 
occurs, but that doesn't tell us much about the real cause.

Of course, testing is still worthwhile - it would be interesting to know if 
anyone saw the issue with FG 2.4 - but again so much has changed in terms of 
shaders complexity, that I fear this again might not prove anything.

James


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Alasdair
On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 12:07 +0100, James Turner wrote:
 On 4 Sep 2012, at 11:43, Alasdair wrote:
 
  Further research shows that for the b1900d  SenecaII, this problem goes
  way back to 2.6.0. It has only become apparent (in my case) for the
  c172p in recent git pulls. I will attempt to find exactly when, but I am
  having to learn git as I go :-( Since the c172p is my aircraft of
  choice, the problem has gone unnoticed up till now.
 
 I would be very cautious in your testing - from what Thorsten's already 
 indicated, you are /not/ looking at a stable issue. There's certainly 
 code-paths that bias it (wxradar apparently, and model complexity / texture 
 complexity in general), but changing OS / driver / FG version and having the 
 problem go away or re-appear doesn't conclusively indicate that a specific 
 change was made in those things, that is causal for the bug.
 
 In other words, changing your configuration (aircraft, rendering settings, 
 drivers, who knows) may push you back-and-forth over the line where the bug 
 occurs, but that doesn't tell us much about the real cause.
 
 Of course, testing is still worthwhile - it would be interesting to know if 
 anyone saw the issue with FG 2.4 - but again so much has changed in terms of 
 shaders complexity, that I fear this again might not prove anything.
 
 James
 
 
Thanks for the words of wisdom, James, but I am still curious to
determine when the problem began for me on the c172p. I don't think
Fred's suggestion for git bisect will work because I have to bisect fg,
sg and data and keep them in sync, so I reckon I will have to do the
binary chop manually. This is really a labour of love  curiosity, cos
all is ok on another more powerful m/c with nvidia graphics + 4
monitors.

regards, Alasdair


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Anders Gidenstam
On Tue, 4 Sep 2012, Alasdair wrote:

 Thanks for the words of wisdom, James, but I am still curious to
 determine when the problem began for me on the c172p. I don't think
 Fred's suggestion for git bisect will work because I have to bisect fg,
 sg and data and keep them in sync, so I reckon I will have to do the
 binary chop manually. This is really a labour of love  curiosity, cos
 all is ok on another more powerful m/c with nvidia graphics + 4
 monitors.

Try checking out the c172p as of the commit before
caeebdbd935015fd7b2bb3071e5f09b1b7815415

E.g.

git checkout caeebdbd935015fd7b2bb3071e5f09b1b7815415^ -- Aircraft/c172p

That commit, from Aug 23, switches the c172p to use its own 
instrumentation file rather than using the generic one. While the generic 
one contains the wxradar instrument, the specific (naturally) doesn't.

IIRC enabling the wxradar instrument is a well/long-known work-around for 
this problem on ATI hardware?

Also try changing the default window size settings in preferences.xml - to 
see if the frame buffer for some reason reverts to the default/startup 
size after the windows is resized to fullscreen.


Cheers,

Anders
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Error while compiling 2.6.0 on FreeBSD,

2012-09-04 Thread Martin Spott
Nikolay Tychina wrote:

 I'm trying to build a port of FlightGear 2.6.0 on FreeBSD, and it
 fails with the same error every time. What can possibly cause it?

Has the problem already been solved ?

Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Alasdair
On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 15:00 +0200, Anders Gidenstam wrote:

 
 Try checking out the c172p as of the commit before
 caeebdbd935015fd7b2bb3071e5f09b1b7815415
 
 E.g.
 
 git checkout caeebdbd935015fd7b2bb3071e5f09b1b7815415^ -- Aircraft/c172p
 
 That commit, from Aug 23, switches the c172p to use its own 
 instrumentation file rather than using the generic one. While the generic 
 one contains the wxradar instrument, the specific (naturally) doesn't.
 
 IIRC enabling the wxradar instrument is a well/long-known work-around for 
 this problem on ATI hardware?
 
 Also try changing the default window size settings in preferences.xml - to 
 see if the frame buffer for some reason reverts to the default/startup 
 size after the windows is resized to fullscreen.
 
 
 Cheers,
 
 Anders

I reckon you are on the right track, Anders. I have already narrowed
narrowed the problem down to fgdata, as building next of yesterday
against with an older fgdata  checkout works just fine. I shall fast
forward to the commit you suggest. Grr, I am beginning to enjoy this
here git, it's cool - even for a senile old bugger like me :-)

Alasdair


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Frederic Bouvier
 Can't think how to proceed from here though :-( Sigh!
 As you and others have mentioned, the wxradar connection ought to be
 a clue, but I am not brainy enough anymore to follow it up, especially
 if involves delving into OSG.

If you are able to start Rembrandt, does it change anything ?

Regards,
-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Alasdair
On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 18:00 +0200, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
  Can't think how to proceed from here though :-( Sigh!
  As you and others have mentioned, the wxradar connection ought to be
  a clue, but I am not brainy enough anymore to follow it up, especially
  if involves delving into OSG.
 
 If you are able to start Rembrandt, does it change anything ?
 
 Regards,
 -Fred
 
You bet your cotton-picking socks it does! Bravo!
Horrible display, but that's to be expected on naff built-in graphics,
without tuning:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fgfs-rembrandt.png

Shows full screen + screwy view port
Progress ??

Alasdair :-)




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Frederic Bouvier
 On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 18:00 +0200, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
   Can't think how to proceed from here though :-( Sigh!
   As you and others have mentioned, the wxradar connection ought to
   be
   a clue, but I am not brainy enough anymore to follow it up,
   especially
   if involves delving into OSG.
  
  If you are able to start Rembrandt, does it change anything ?
  
  Regards,
  -Fred
  
 You bet your cotton-picking socks it does! Bravo!
 Horrible display, but that's to be expected on naff built-in
 graphics, without tuning:
 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fgfs-rembrandt.png
 
 Shows full screen + screwy view port
 Progress ??

And the same screenshot with 'Debug  Hide/Show Rendering Buffers' menu on, 
like in http://wiki.flightgear.org/File:Project_rembrandt_1.png (notice the 
corners) ?

Regards,
-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Alasdair
On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 18:52 +0200, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
  On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 18:00 +0200, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
Can't think how to proceed from here though :-( Sigh!
As you and others have mentioned, the wxradar connection ought to
be
a clue, but I am not brainy enough anymore to follow it up,
especially
if involves delving into OSG.
   
   If you are able to start Rembrandt, does it change anything ?
   
   Regards,
   -Fred
   
  You bet your cotton-picking socks it does! Bravo!
  Horrible display, but that's to be expected on naff built-in
  graphics, without tuning:
  https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fgfs-rembrandt.png
  
  Shows full screen + screwy view port
  Progress ??
 
 And the same screenshot with 'Debug  Hide/Show Rendering Buffers' menu on, 
 like in http://wiki.flightgear.org/File:Project_rembrandt_1.png (notice the 
 corners) ?
 
 Regards,
 -Fred
 
Here you go:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fgfs-rem_rend_buffers_on.png

You seem to be scenting the fox here, Fred
Wish I knew what the rendering buffers tell you!

Alasdair



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Frederic Bouvier
 Here you go:
 https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fgfs-rem_rend_buffers_on.png
 
 You seem to be scenting the fox here, Fred
 Wish I knew what the rendering buffers tell you!

The corners are rendered in a first pass in textures. These textures are 
resized when an event from OSG tells to, and then a transformation tells OpenGL 
to take the whole allocated space. Here, we see that the corners are not 
covering their allocated space, certainly because a bad viewport is given.

The green image in the main window is in fact a Rembrandt bug (and a known 
source of bad performance) that is hidden when the images in the corners occupy 
all there space. It has the right viewport though.

But without being able to reproduce, I don't know the reason of that.

Regards,
-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Frederic Bouvier
  Here you go:
  https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fgfs-rem_rend_buffers_on.png
  
  You seem to be scenting the fox here, Fred
  Wish I knew what the rendering buffers tell you!
 
 The corners are rendered in a first pass in textures. These textures
 are resized when an event from OSG tells to, and then a
 transformation tells OpenGL to take the whole allocated space. Here,
 we see that the corners are not covering their allocated space,
 certainly because a bad viewport is given.
 
 The green image in the main window is in fact a Rembrandt bug (and a
 known source of bad performance) that is hidden when the images in
 the corners occupy all there space. It has the right viewport
 though.
 
 But without being able to reproduce, I don't know the reason of that.

BTW: it looks like this one : 
http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=354

-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Error while compiling 2.6.0 on FreeBSD, what the reason?

2012-09-04 Thread Nikolay Tychina
Hi!

 Which version of FreeBSD ? Do you have BATCH enabled in make.conf ? Are
 you sure your port dependencies are up to date ? Do you have any other
 custom rules defined in make.conf ?

 Cheers,
 Martin.

FreeBSD was relatively recent 9-STABLE, yesterday I upgraded it to
9.1-PRERELEASE #0 r240025.
My make.conf only contains PERL_VERSION added by perl port.

 my bet is that FreeBSD has a macro named 'nitems' that conflicts with a FLTK 
 member function of the same name.

 Regards,
 -Fred

I'm not a programmer, but I could try to check it. Is there an
accessible way to do it?

Regards


 I'm trying to build a port of FlightGear 2.6.0 on FreeBSD, and it
 fails with the same error every time. What can possibly cause it?
 I already contacted port maintainer, and he said the port should
 build
 fine. We tried reinstalling FLTK and the ports it depends on, but it
 didn't help.

 Scanning dependencies of target fgadmin
 [ 97%] Building CXX object
 utils/fgadmin/src/CMakeFiles/fgadmin.dir/fgadmin_funcs.cxx.o
 In file included from
 /usr/ports/games/flightgear/work/flightgear-2.6.0/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin.h:14,
  from
 /usr/ports/games/flightgear/work/flightgear-2.6.0/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:37:
 /usr/local/include/FL/Fl_Check_Browser.H:100: error: expected
 unqualified-id before 'sizeof'
 /usr/local/include/FL/Fl_Check_Browser.H:100: error: expected `)'
 before 'sizeof'
 /usr/ports/games/flightgear/work/flightgear-2.6.0/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:
 In member function 'void FGAdminUI::install_selected()':
 /usr/ports/games/flightgear/work/flightgear-2.6.0/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:283:
 error: expected unqualified-id before '(' token
 /usr/ports/games/flightgear/work/flightgear-2.6.0/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:283:
 error: expected primary-expression before ')' token
 /usr/ports/games/flightgear/work/flightgear-2.6.0/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:283:
 error: expected primary-expression before ')' token
 /usr/ports/games/flightgear/work/flightgear-2.6.0/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:
 In member function 'void FGAdminUI::remove_selected()':
 /usr/ports/games/flightgear/work/flightgear-2.6.0/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:391:
 error: expected unqualified-id before '(' token
 /usr/ports/games/flightgear/work/flightgear-2.6.0/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:391:
 error: expected primary-expression before ')' token
 /usr/ports/games/flightgear/work/flightgear-2.6.0/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:391:
 error: expected primary-expression before ')' token
 *** [utils/fgadmin/src/CMakeFiles/fgadmin.dir/fgadmin_funcs.cxx.o]
 Error code 1

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Error while compiling 2.6.0 on FreeBSD, what the reason?

2012-09-04 Thread Frederic Bouvier
 Hi!
 
  Which version of FreeBSD ? Do you have BATCH enabled in make.conf ?
  Are
  you sure your port dependencies are up to date ? Do you have any
  other
  custom rules defined in make.conf ?
 
  Cheers,
  Martin.
 
 FreeBSD was relatively recent 9-STABLE, yesterday I upgraded it to
 9.1-PRERELEASE #0 r240025.
 My make.conf only contains PERL_VERSION added by perl port.
 
  my bet is that FreeBSD has a macro named 'nitems' that conflicts
  with a FLTK member function of the same name.
 
  Regards,
  -Fred
 
 I'm not a programmer, but I could try to check it. Is there an
 accessible way to do it?

You can add something like :

#ifdef nitems
   #pragma message Someone defined nitems
   #undef nitems
#endif

after all #include of the problematic file

Regards,
-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Frederic Bouvier
   Here you go:
   https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fgfs-rem_rend_buffers_on.png
   
   You seem to be scenting the fox here, Fred
   Wish I knew what the rendering buffers tell you!
  
  The corners are rendered in a first pass in textures. These
  textures
  are resized when an event from OSG tells to, and then a
  transformation tells OpenGL to take the whole allocated space.
  Here,
  we see that the corners are not covering their allocated space,
  certainly because a bad viewport is given.
  
  The green image in the main window is in fact a Rembrandt bug (and
  a
  known source of bad performance) that is hidden when the images in
  the corners occupy all there space. It has the right viewport
  though.
  
  But without being able to reproduce, I don't know the reason of
  that.
 
 BTW: it looks like this one :
 http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=354

If you start FG with --log-level=debug --log-class=view
you'll be able to see messages like :

FGEventHandler::handle: RESIZE event 763 x 1338, resizable: 1
FGRenderer::resize: new size 1338 x 763

What are yours ?

Regards,
-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Alasdair

 
 If you start FG with --log-level=debug --log-class=view
 you'll be able to see messages like :
 
 FGEventHandler::handle: RESIZE event 763 x 1338, resizable: 1
 FGRenderer::resize: new size 1338 x 763
 
 What are yours ?
 
 Regards,
 -Fred
 
I see FGRenderer::resize: new size 1904 x 993 but no reference to
FGEventHandler::?

I already has a look at FGRenderer::resize, but the method doesn't seem
to do anything, except issue the above message at debug level.
Keep going, Fred! I have every confidence you can crack this problem.

Alasdair


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Frederic Bouvier
  
  If you start FG with --log-level=debug --log-class=view
  you'll be able to see messages like :
  
  FGEventHandler::handle: RESIZE event 763 x 1338, resizable: 1
  FGRenderer::resize: new size 1338 x 763
  
  What are yours ?
  
  Regards,
  -Fred
  
 I see FGRenderer::resize: new size 1904 x 993 but no reference to
 FGEventHandler::?
 
 I already has a look at FGRenderer::resize, but the method doesn't
 seem
 to do anything, except issue the above message at debug level.
 Keep going, Fred! I have every confidence you can crack this problem.

It's the FGEventHandler::handle that actually do the resize. So if you 
don't see it it explains what you see.

BTW: What is your OSG version ?

Regards,
-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Alasdair
On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 22:34 +0200, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
   
   If you start FG with --log-level=debug --log-class=view
   you'll be able to see messages like :
   
   FGEventHandler::handle: RESIZE event 763 x 1338, resizable: 1
   FGRenderer::resize: new size 1338 x 763
   
   What are yours ?
   
   Regards,
   -Fred
   
  I see FGRenderer::resize: new size 1904 x 993 but no reference to
  FGEventHandler::?
  
  I already has a look at FGRenderer::resize, but the method doesn't
  seem
  to do anything, except issue the above message at debug level.
  Keep going, Fred! I have every confidence you can crack this problem.
 
 It's the FGEventHandler::handle that actually do the resize. So if you 
 don't see it it explains what you see.
 
 BTW: What is your OSG version ?
 
 Regards,
 -Fred
 
3.0.1

I always used my own build, but also tried debian's deb (version 3.0.1-3
+b2)

Alasdair


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Error while compiling 2.6.0 on FreeBSD,

2012-09-04 Thread Martin Spott
Nikolay Tychina wrote:

 FreeBSD was relatively recent 9-STABLE, yesterday I upgraded it to
 9.1-PRERELEASE #0 r240025.

Which port of FLTK is installed, 1.3 or 2 ?
I've recently built the flightgear port successfully on 9.something,
therefore I'd rather expect some remains of an old FLTK or Ruby port to
be the culprit than a systematic collision on FreeBSD.

Cheers,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-04 Thread Alasdair
On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 21:58 +0100, Alasdair wrote:
 On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 22:34 +0200, Frederic Bouvier wrote:

If you start FG with --log-level=debug --log-class=view
you'll be able to see messages like :

FGEventHandler::handle: RESIZE event 763 x 1338, resizable: 1
FGRenderer::resize: new size 1338 x 763

What are yours ?

Regards,
-Fred

   I see FGRenderer::resize: new size 1904 x 993 but no reference to
   FGEventHandler::?
   
   I already has a look at FGRenderer::resize, but the method doesn't
   seem
   to do anything, except issue the above message at debug level.
   Keep going, Fred! I have every confidence you can crack this problem.
  
  It's the FGEventHandler::handle that actually do the resize. So if you 
  don't see it it explains what you see.
  
  BTW: What is your OSG version ?
  
  Regards,
  -Fred
  
 3.0.1
 
 I always used my own build, but also tried debian's deb (version 3.0.1-3
 +b2)
 
 Alasdair
 
I see  :
FGEventHandler::handle: RESIZE event 1002 x 1920, resizable: 1
FGRenderer::resize: new size 1920 x 1002

but _only after I click the maximize widget_
Screen reverts to small view if I click any menu item

Alasdair





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Re: [Flightgear-devel] license

2012-09-04 Thread Michael
No, FlightProSim and whatever they're called.

I still think we need another license for sceneries etc. Anything but code 
should be possible to license similar to GPL, but not allowing any commmercial 
use.
Only change/add this to gpl, rename it flightgear scenery license or whatever. 
Dual licensing..should be easy?





--- On Mon, 9/3/12, Tim Moore timoor...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Tim Moore timoor...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] license
 To: FlightGear developers discussions 
 flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 Date: Monday, September 3, 2012, 4:43 PM
 On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 4:27 PM,
 Michael scrat_h...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  Hi
  saw this:
  http://wiki.flightgear.org/File:Joystick_Configuration_Dialog.jpg
 
  which is Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0
 license.
  Will that go into default 3.0? Hence I would use the
 same license to keep off scammers. Sorry, seems I've missed
 if default releases only contain GPL license or not.
 By scammers you mean developers?
 
 Tim
 
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