Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter August 2009
Erik Hofman wrote: Stuart Buchanan wrote: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/FlightGear_Newsletter_August_2009 Looking at the custom made scenery screenshots I must say that hand altered scenery might look close to, if not as good as, photo realistic scenery. People have probably started wondering why those who claim to be busy building and distributing World Scenery for FlightGear didn't jump on the same track, using CORINE and OSM data as input for the World Scenery, like Jake did with 'his' Innsbruck Scenery (as well as a French fellow who's been building CORINE/OSM-based Scenery for Grenoble and a few other places in France). The background is pretty simple - our 'excuse' ;-) for not doing so: Technically it's not a big deal to build FlightGear Scenery with CORINE and OSM (and we've already done so for 'private' samples). Yet we have to face the fact that neither of the two datasets ships under a License which allows the distribution of Scenery under the GPL-affected FlightGear umbrella (I'll leave the boring details out). Fortunately some people have started classifying/digitizing land cover data from 'free' (in the sense of 'GPL-compilant') data sources, like Landsat7 imagery, of which a few samples already made it into the current 'official' Scenery. I'll leave it to the respective authors to present their results, if they like. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter August 2009
While it would be neat if flightgear could generate the default scenery off of high quality data, there is still a fair bit of manual work involved to get good results. OSM and Corine, while both very accurate, don't necessarily agree with one another. I've spent a considerable amount of time tweaking the roads and rails to clean them up, and move them to agree with Corine, especially around the lakes and rivers. The other thing I'm spending a fair amount of time on is the identifying tunnels for roads and rails, so they do not cut through mountains and such. A fair number of people have commented on my scenery about that strange peak near LOWI being fixed. That was was caused by railroad cutting through it in the default scenery. In real life that is a tunnel, and I cut out those parts of the rails that are tunnel in that area. Stuff like that would be hard or impossible to automate, good scenery simply needs real hands working on it. Besides, there are advantages to not having the scenery part of the official scenery. Sometimes it is necessary to step outside of official channels in order to achieve your goals, or push things to a new level. For me to achieve my long term goals for the scenery, I simply cannot follow some official methods, practices, and recommendations. In other words, even if I used gpl compatible data I would still be maintaining my scenery separate from flightgears official scenery. ;) cheers! -- Jacob (aka Tuxklok) -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter August 2009
Salut Maxime, Maxime Guillaud wrote: Thanks for those explanations, Martin. However, let me point out that the license for the CORINE data for France seems pretty flexible to me. (Note that this is true for France only, and that each country distributes their data with their own license terms.) The conditions of use can be found here: http://www.ifen.fr/clc/CORINE_Land_Cover_-_Condition_Utilisation.htm (in french only, sorry). I'm well familiar with reading French - thanks for the pointer ! Apparently these use terms are quite different from those on the EEA site. This really looks like we should incorporate French CORINE data into our collection of land cover data for the World Scenery. I'll be preparing an appropriate setup. As for the OSM data, their Creative Commons license (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/) permits redistribution under the same or similar license. Could this not be the GPL ? The full license text is a bit more precise about 'similar' 4.b) You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License, or a Creative Commons iCommons license that contains the same License Elements as this License. To my understanding (as well as the understanding of quite a few OSMers to whom I've been talking about this issue) this doesn't permit to distribute OSM-derived Scenery under the GPL. On the other hand, some of the content which makes it into our Scenery is licensed under the GPL. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter August 2009
Next time you do that you'd probably consider acknowledging the respective attributes in the OSM data: They're explicitly marking these sections of the railroad as running through a tunnel ;-) Interesting, seems I may have totally overlooked that one, I'll look into it. I can prob have those sections automatically removed at the beginning of my pipeline then. That could save a lot of time, and put me one step closer to having the base terrain done. Then I can move onto the more interesting things. Thanks Martin! cheers! -- Jacob (aka Tuxklok) -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter August 2009
Jacob Burbach wrote: Next time you do that you'd probably consider acknowledging the respective attributes in the OSM data: They're explicitly marking these sections of the railroad as running through a tunnel ;-) Interesting, seems I may have totally overlooked that one, I'll look into it. I can prob have those sections automatically removed at the beginning of my pipeline then. I'm pretty much convinced that your goal and ours are not that far apart from each other. In other words: pushing things to a new level doesn't make your project a unique one. BUT we're taking different routes to get there - obviously. We, sometimes also known as The Custom Scenery Project, are researching how to automate as many of the involved refinement steps as possible while still allowing for manual editing, in order to let the entire World Scenery benefit from certain improvements, not just distinct, local areas. Inspecting the details of OSM data is just one sample from a list of items ;-) Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter August 2009
Martin Spott wrote: BUT we're taking different routes to get there - obviously. We, sometimes also known as The Custom Scenery Project, are researching how to automate as many of the involved refinement steps as possible while still allowing for manual editing, in order to let the entire World Scenery benefit from certain improvements, not just distinct, local areas. Well, apparently our approach takes much more time to yield visible results compared to yours :-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter August 2009
Martin Spott wrote: I'm well familiar with reading French - thanks for the pointer ! Apparently these use terms are quite different from those on the EEA site. This really looks like we should incorporate French CORINE data into our collection of land cover data for the World Scenery. I'll be preparing an appropriate setup. That would be great ! The full license text is a bit more precise about 'similar' 4.b) You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License, or a Creative Commons iCommons license that contains the same License Elements as this License. To my understanding (as well as the understanding of quite a few OSMers to whom I've been talking about this issue) this doesn't permit to distribute OSM-derived Scenery under the GPL. On the other hand, some of the content which makes it into our Scenery is licensed under the GPL. ok. Meanwhile, my understanding is that I can distribute my OSM-based scenery under the Attribution-Share Alike Creative Commons license without problems. Correct ? cheers, Maxime -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter August 2009
Maxime Guillaud wrote: ok. Meanwhile, my understanding is that I can distribute my OSM-based scenery under the Attribution-Share Alike Creative Commons license without problems. Correct ? If it's data you submitted to OSM yourself then you can use any license you like, since you still retain ownership of your data. If you're using OSM data submitted by others then you'll need to distribute it under CC-by-SA. Once the new OSM license is sorted then AIUI flightgear scenery will constitute a produced work (there's no easy way to convert it back to the source data), in which case we'll be able to make use of it for the scenery. Jon -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter August 2009
Stuart Buchanan wrote: Hi All, I have the pleasure to announce that the latest edition of the FlightGear Newsletter is now available: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/FlightGear_Newsletter_August_2009 Looking at the custom made scenery screenshots I must say that hand altered scenery might look close to, if not as good as, photo realistic scenery. The downside is the required hard work but the upside is that it's using cheap (for todays hardware) vertices instead of massive bandwidth consuming (both network and internal pc bus) texture arrays. Well done! Erik -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter August 2009
Hi All, I have the pleasure to announce that the latest edition of the FlightGear Newsletter is now available: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/FlightGear_Newsletter_August_2009 As always, new submissions are welcome, and can be added to the next edition. -Stuart -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
