Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

[Erik Hofman]

On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 20:53 +0100, Bertrand Coconnier wrote:
> Let's take an example : let's say I develop some code for JSBSim to
> take into account FG ground material in the landing gears friction
> forces. For that, I need to modify both JSBSim library *and*
> FlightGear glue code. So I will submit a patch to JSBSim (for the
> friction calcs) and another patch to FlightGear (to give JSBSim access
> to FG material data). The patch for FG glue code cannot be applied
> readily : first JSBSim needs to be patched and then copied in
> FlightGear (or otherwise FG compilation will fail). Once JSBSim last
> revision is copied in FlightGear the second part of the patch must be
> committed immediately in FlightGear (otherwise FG compilation will
> fail). And then the patched glue code will be copied back in JSBSim.
> Notice that the patch can be applied at any moment in JSBSim, even 1
> month or 1 year after its submission. On the other hand, some tight
> synchronization is needed on the FlightGear side if you don't want FG
> compilation to break. Do you think such a process is sustainable ? I
> don't.

While it's a valid point I don't see it being as big as a problems as
you seem to do. First of all the former situation wasn't ideal either
and secondly you could put out a git merge request for the particular
changes.

Projects like OpenEagles seems to handle this well and so can FlightGear
I believe.

Erik


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

[Curtis Olson]

Hi Bertrand,

Here are a couple quick responses:

- The reason JSBSim would want to keep a copy of the glue code would be to
serve as an example for others who want to integrate JSBSim into their
projects.

- Changing the name of the glue code (I guess I missed seeing that this was
officially decided).  But if I'm not mistaken, currently we have JSBSim.cxx
and JSBSim.cpp so that is also pretty confusing since they both produce a
JSBSim.o.  It would make sense to call this FlightGear.cxx within the JSBSim
project, probably that's a less informative name within the FlightGear
source tree.

- 2 way patch patch propagation.  Really the only important direction is for
us to merge JSBSim changes into FlightGear.  Merging the glue code changes
back to the JSBSim project would simply be a courtesy to keep the example
code up to date and reduce the chance that some bug or poor way to handle
something is propagated to others (assuming we discover and fix something in
the glue code ourselves.)

Best regards,

Curt.


On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Bertrand Coconnier wrote:

> 2011/1/26 Erik Hofman :
> >
> > After a bit of discussion it was decided that the FlightGear/JSBSim glue
> > code in JSBSim.[ch]xx located in FlightGear/src/FDM/JSBSim now is
> > maintained by FlightGear developers instead of by JSBSim developers and
> > therefore these files will not be overwritten in future updates.
>
> I don't know where this discussion took place so I may have missed the
> juicier bits. Then I apologize in advance if my questions have already
> been answered.
>
> > Instead they are now copied over to JSBSim instead to act as example
> code.
> >
>
> Given the decisions taken above, I don't understand why, in the first
> place, JSBSim should keep a copy of some code that will now be
> maintained elsewhere ? What is the plan ? Porting all patches from
> FlightGear to JSBSim's copy ? What for ? AFAICT JSBSim stand-alone
> executable is itself an example of how to integrate JSBSim library in
> an executable. And JSBSim.[ch]xx seems a fairly complicated chunk of
> code to serve as an example. For instance, JSBSim.cpp (the stand-alone
> executable) contains 635 lines of code while JSBSim.cxx (the glue
> code) contains 1413 lines of code.
>
> Even though, why the name of the Flight Gear glue code has been
> changed from JSBSim.[ch]xx to FlightGear.[ch]xx in JSBSim ? Now we
> have 2 copies of the same source code with 2 different file names.
> What is the point of this renaming ? Is it not confusing ?
>
> 2011/1/26 Erik Hofman :
> > On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 07:19 -0600, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
> >
> >> I have received and applied patches from several places recently. Make
> sure
> >> that patches are not accidentally reversed.
> >
> > They won't since the patches at the FlightGear side will be overwritten
> > by what JSBSim had in CVS.
>
> Unless I am mistaken, the plan is now to have a 2-way code exchange
> between FlightGear and JSBSim :
> FG => JSBSim for JSBSim.[ch]xx/FlightGear.[ch]xx
> JSBSim => FG for other JSBSim files.
>
> Who will make sure that those files are always in a consistent state ?
>
> Let's take an example : let's say I develop some code for JSBSim to
> take into account FG ground material in the landing gears friction
> forces. For that, I need to modify both JSBSim library *and*
> FlightGear glue code. So I will submit a patch to JSBSim (for the
> friction calcs) and another patch to FlightGear (to give JSBSim access
> to FG material data). The patch for FG glue code cannot be applied
> readily : first JSBSim needs to be patched and then copied in
> FlightGear (or otherwise FG compilation will fail). Once JSBSim last
> revision is copied in FlightGear the second part of the patch must be
> committed immediately in FlightGear (otherwise FG compilation will
> fail). And then the patched glue code will be copied back in JSBSim.
> Notice that the patch can be applied at any moment in JSBSim, even 1
> month or 1 year after its submission. On the other hand, some tight
> synchronization is needed on the FlightGear side if you don't want FG
> compilation to break. Do you think such a process is sustainable ? I
> don't.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bertrand.
>
>
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---

Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

[Bertrand Coconnier]

2011/1/26 Erik Hofman :
>
> After a bit of discussion it was decided that the FlightGear/JSBSim glue
> code in JSBSim.[ch]xx located in FlightGear/src/FDM/JSBSim now is
> maintained by FlightGear developers instead of by JSBSim developers and
> therefore these files will not be overwritten in future updates.

I don't know where this discussion took place so I may have missed the
juicier bits. Then I apologize in advance if my questions have already
been answered.

> Instead they are now copied over to JSBSim instead to act as example code.
>

Given the decisions taken above, I don't understand why, in the first
place, JSBSim should keep a copy of some code that will now be
maintained elsewhere ? What is the plan ? Porting all patches from
FlightGear to JSBSim's copy ? What for ? AFAICT JSBSim stand-alone
executable is itself an example of how to integrate JSBSim library in
an executable. And JSBSim.[ch]xx seems a fairly complicated chunk of
code to serve as an example. For instance, JSBSim.cpp (the stand-alone
executable) contains 635 lines of code while JSBSim.cxx (the glue
code) contains 1413 lines of code.

Even though, why the name of the Flight Gear glue code has been
changed from JSBSim.[ch]xx to FlightGear.[ch]xx in JSBSim ? Now we
have 2 copies of the same source code with 2 different file names.
What is the point of this renaming ? Is it not confusing ?

2011/1/26 Erik Hofman :
> On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 07:19 -0600, Jon S. Berndt wrote:
>
>> I have received and applied patches from several places recently. Make sure
>> that patches are not accidentally reversed.
>
> They won't since the patches at the FlightGear side will be overwritten
> by what JSBSim had in CVS.

Unless I am mistaken, the plan is now to have a 2-way code exchange
between FlightGear and JSBSim :
FG => JSBSim for JSBSim.[ch]xx/FlightGear.[ch]xx
JSBSim => FG for other JSBSim files.

Who will make sure that those files are always in a consistent state ?

Let's take an example : let's say I develop some code for JSBSim to
take into account FG ground material in the landing gears friction
forces. For that, I need to modify both JSBSim library *and*
FlightGear glue code. So I will submit a patch to JSBSim (for the
friction calcs) and another patch to FlightGear (to give JSBSim access
to FG material data). The patch for FG glue code cannot be applied
readily : first JSBSim needs to be patched and then copied in
FlightGear (or otherwise FG compilation will fail). Once JSBSim last
revision is copied in FlightGear the second part of the patch must be
committed immediately in FlightGear (otherwise FG compilation will
fail). And then the patched glue code will be copied back in JSBSim.
Notice that the patch can be applied at any moment in JSBSim, even 1
month or 1 year after its submission. On the other hand, some tight
synchronization is needed on the FlightGear side if you don't want FG
compilation to break. Do you think such a process is sustainable ? I
don't.

Cheers,

Bertrand.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

[Erik Hofman]

On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 07:19 -0600, Jon S. Berndt wrote:

> I have received and applied patches from several places recently. Make sure
> that patches are not accidentally reversed.

They won't since the patches at the FlightGear side will be overwritten
by what JSBSim had in CVS.

> It is very important that patches - and *very*especially* **any** patches to
> FGPropagate - go through the proper channels, tested thoroughly using
> several specified scripts on the JSBSim side. All patches must be posted
> and/or explained on the JSBSim developer list first prior to being
> committed.

I've applied one that can only be harmless, initializing to zero for
certain arguments upon reset. The other one needs to be looked at, like
described in the JSBSim mailing list.

Erik


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

[James Turner]

On 26 Jan 2011, at 12:26, Erik Hofman wrote:

>> Great, that simplifies things considerably, hopefully for everyone. There's 
>> still the issue of my FGPropulsion change, and Andreas' FGPropogate fix to 
>> go into JSBSim proper.
> 
> I've committed Andreas' FGPropogate fix in JSBSim, your fix needs some
> more discussion and testing I'm afraid

That's absolutely fine - I freely admit to knowing nothing about JSBSim 
internals!

James


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

[Jon S. Berndt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Erik Hofman [mailto:e...@ehofman.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:55 AM
> To: FlightGear developers discussions
> Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge
> 
> On Mon, 2011-01-24 at 15:40 +, James Turner wrote:
> 
> > Okay - I'm going to re-apply my patches locally, and also apply
> Andreas Gaeb's NaN fixes (and to the release branch too), but of course
> they all need to be merged to JSBSim proper.
> 
> After a bit of discussion it was decided that the FlightGear/JSBSim
> glue
> code in JSBSim.[ch]xx located in FlightGear/src/FDM/JSBSim now is
> maintained by FlightGear developers instead of by JSBSim developers and
> therefore these files will not be overwritten in future updates.
> Instead
> they are now copied over to JSBSim instead to act as example code.
> 
> Erik

I have received and applied patches from several places recently. Make sure
that patches are not accidentally reversed.

It is very important that patches - and *very*especially* **any** patches to
FGPropagate - go through the proper channels, tested thoroughly using
several specified scripts on the JSBSim side. All patches must be posted
and/or explained on the JSBSim developer list first prior to being
committed.

I'm not writing this to be heavy-handed, but to avoid problems going
forward, based on past experiences. Sometimes I will see problem reports in
various places and be working locally on the best approach for a fix. So,
merging *from* the flightgear tree to JSBSim might cause problems when I try
to apply my (or another JSBSim developer's) fixes.

So, let's please funnel ALL problem reports about JSBSim issues to the
JSBSim developer list OR via the bug reporting tool:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=119399&group_id=19399&func=browse

Thanks - and sorry if this comes across as rude or controlling. It's not
meant to. 

:-)


Jon



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

[Erik Hofman]

On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 12:23 +, James Turner wrote:
> On 26 Jan 2011, at 11:55, Erik Hofman wrote:
> 
> > After a bit of discussion it was decided that the FlightGear/JSBSim glue
> > code in JSBSim.[ch]xx located in FlightGear/src/FDM/JSBSim now is
> > maintained by FlightGear developers instead of by JSBSim developers and
> > therefore these files will not be overwritten in future updates. Instead
> > they are now copied over to JSBSim instead to act as example code.
> 
> Great, that simplifies things considerably, hopefully for everyone. There's 
> still the issue of my FGPropulsion change, and Andreas' FGPropogate fix to go 
> into JSBSim proper.

I've committed Andreas' FGPropogate fix in JSBSim, your fix needs some
more discussion and testing I'm afraid.

Erik


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

[James Turner]

On 26 Jan 2011, at 11:55, Erik Hofman wrote:

> After a bit of discussion it was decided that the FlightGear/JSBSim glue
> code in JSBSim.[ch]xx located in FlightGear/src/FDM/JSBSim now is
> maintained by FlightGear developers instead of by JSBSim developers and
> therefore these files will not be overwritten in future updates. Instead
> they are now copied over to JSBSim instead to act as example code.

Great, that simplifies things considerably, hopefully for everyone. There's 
still the issue of my FGPropulsion change, and Andreas' FGPropogate fix to go 
into JSBSim proper.

Regards,
James


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

[Erik Hofman]

On Mon, 2011-01-24 at 15:40 +, James Turner wrote:

> Okay - I'm going to re-apply my patches locally, and also apply Andreas 
> Gaeb's NaN fixes (and to the release branch too), but of course they all need 
> to be merged to JSBSim proper.

After a bit of discussion it was decided that the FlightGear/JSBSim glue
code in JSBSim.[ch]xx located in FlightGear/src/FDM/JSBSim now is
maintained by FlightGear developers instead of by JSBSim developers and
therefore these files will not be overwritten in future updates. Instead
they are now copied over to JSBSim instead to act as example code.

Erik


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

[James Turner]

On 24 Jan 2011, at 09:20, Erik Hofman wrote:

> Indeed, main development takes place at www.jsbsim.org and the code is
> copied over the FlightGear regularly. Adding patches to FlightGear's
> JSBSim code will be overwritten then.
> 
> I'll forward this message to the JSBSim mailinglist for discussion. Feel
> free to commit it again to FlightGear for the mean time if you wish.

Okay - I'm going to re-apply my patches locally, and also apply Andreas Gaeb's 
NaN fixes (and to the release branch too), but of course they all need to be 
merged to JSBSim proper.

Thanks for info,
James

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

[Erik Hofman]

On Mon, 2011-01-24 at 08:30 +, James Turner wrote:
> For Erik, and any other JSB-aware folks who might be reading,
> 
> My fix for (FlightGear) bug #204 got over-written by Erik's recent JSBSim 
> merge - I was reminded about this at the time,  but forgot to ask this 
> question then. What's the appropriate way to get this change reviewed and 
> into JSBSim mainline (Or some feedback on how to make it acceptable?)

Indeed, main development takes place at www.jsbsim.org and the code is
copied over the FlightGear regularly. Adding patches to FlightGear's
JSBSim code will be overwritten then.

I'll forward this message to the JSBSim mailinglist for discussion. Feel
free to commit it again to FlightGear for the mean time if you wish.

Erik


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[Flightgear-devel] JSBSim merge

[James Turner]

For Erik, and any other JSB-aware folks who might be reading,

My fix for (FlightGear) bug #204 got over-written by Erik's recent JSBSim merge 
- I was reminded about this at the time,  but forgot to ask this question then. 
What's the appropriate way to get this change reviewed and into JSBSim mainline 
(Or some feedback on how to make it acceptable?)

I'm not anxious to join yet another mailing list, given how rare these cases 
are - any other options?

Here's the patch:


http://gitorious.org/fg/flightgear/commit/d4d70200eb635318aa4b9fd700ac4a9310899426

And the (fairly major, on the FG side) bug:

http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=204

Regards,
James


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