Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-12 Thread Martin Spott
Curtis L. Olson wrote:

 Martin: please explain again in very great detail for me how exactly 
 GSHHS has been improved?

I didn't compare the shorelines of the whole world between old and new
version  :-)
I actually had a look at a few places (my personal favourites) and
noticed something that appeared to me as more detail in the GSHS 1.3
(new) data. Unfortunately I did _not_ look at the great lakes area.
What is nice about the new GSHHS is that they don't put everything into
one dataset but instead they separate the coastline from lakes (and
islands and ponds on islands). I my eyes this _should_ make it easier
to pick GSHHS for coastlines and VMAP0 for everything else. There are
only a few so called ponds in GSHHS, so it should take not that much
time so investigate if these are improved in GSHHS over VMAP0,

Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-12 Thread Martin Spott
David Megginson wrote:

 The problem might be that TerraGear is now cropping against just the
 landmass -- it actually has to crop against the union of the landmass,
 islands, lakes, and everything else.

I'm pretty sure this is the correct explanation - even without looking
at the code  :-)
The landmass dataset that was used with TGVPF and that I simply
copied for use with the DB is actually called polbnda in VMAP0 -
political boundaries area. As the Great Lakes don't fall into a
single political area they simply don't get covered by _any_ area type
object and so they get defined as ocean in Terragear.

This should not only affect the Great Lakes, I wouldn't be surprised if
the same effect occurs with the Victoria Lake in southern Africa, with
the Black Sea south-east of Europe any maybe the Titicaca Lake in South
America (not sure about that one).

As the Greate Lakes apparently _are_ defined in the VMAP0 lake layer,
at least they are being displayed as such in the Mapserver, I currently
don't see why they should not be trated as lakes - even if they lie
outside of any political boundary.

Cheers,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-10 Thread Martin Spott
David Megginson wrote:

 The TerraGear scenery bug with the Great Lakes (and possibly other
 large inland lakes?) is pretty serious -- it leaves many midwest U.S.
 and central Canadian cities perched on giant cliffs overlooking the
 lakes.

I'd call this an early pre-release, especially because you have to hack
the coordinates of your preferred location into the URL, but it could
help working towards a solution to this issue. I've set up a Mapserver
on our Landcover-DB that contains lots of funny stuff - including three
different sources for shoreline data.

Please, _please_ read _before_ everyone enters the URL into their web
browser  :-)
While the machine performs quite well as WWW-, FTP- and database server
(as well as our local fileserver !), is was not sized to to the job of
an online web mapping server. The server is running only with 256 MByte
of RAM at a 400 MHz clock cycle, so please take care with these rare
ressources - try to use it asynchronously  ;-)

In the Mapserver page you can select different layers. The DB contains
all layers that are being used for the current Scenery (and some more)
but not all layers in the DB are listed in the drop-down chooser. The
single reason for this constraint is that I simply didn't find the time
to determine colours that represent all those different landcover types
in a reasonable manner 

Somewhere down the list you'll find 'landmass_default', 'swbd' and
'gshhs coastline'. The first is from VMAP0 and seems to represent
political boundaries, the second is the SRTM water body data, the third
- you name it. So, here you are:

  http://document.ihg.uni-duisburg.de/landcover/

SWBD contains some really interesting details that others don't because
it is a real 'picture' of the current situation when The Shuttle came
by. This means it doesn't know about tides   some small islands
are represented with the double of their actual width because of low
tide. There is notion of lakes where not lake actually is - maybe
because of strong rain falls. Some lakes don't show up in any of
the three datasets 
VMAP0 is about political boundaries so it appears not so much to care
about small details in the shoreline. GSHHS is very accurate at those
places where I had a look at and is now split into four categories:
coastline, lakes, islands in those lakes, ponds on those islands.

Please have a look and try to determine which one matches best. The map
starts at Lake Constance with VMAP0 lakes only. The pan-buttons in the
corners currently don't work (I'll have to look after this) but you can
click into the map to re-center it. You also can enter the respective
coordinates in the 'imgext' part of the URL. I'll soon have a modified
page where you can enter a location for the start.

Have fun,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-10 Thread Martin Spott
Martin Spott wrote:

 While the machine performs quite well as WWW-, FTP- and database server
 (as well as our local fileserver !), is was not sized to to the job of
 an online web mapping server. The server is running only with 256 MByte
 of RAM at a 400 MHz clock cycle, [...]

Sorry: 440 MHz  :-)

 Please have a look and try to determine which one matches best. The map
 starts at Lake Constance with VMAP0 lakes only. The pan-buttons in the
 corners currently don't work (I'll have to look after this) but you can
 click into the map to re-center it. You also can enter the respective
 coordinates in the 'imgext' part of the URL.

The format is lon/lat of the lower left corner and for the upper right
corner. In order to save the server from being overloaded not any
arbitrary map size is allowed. It is a good choice to stay in the
+/- 0,5 degree size, for example to visit the Quebec area this would be a
good choice:

  [...]imgext=-070.893+46.291+-071.893+47.291[...]

Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-10 Thread David Megginson
On 10/03/06, Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 VMAP0 is about political boundaries so it appears not so much to care
 about small details in the shoreline. GSHHS is very accurate at those
 places where I had a look at and is now split into four categories:
 coastline, lakes, islands in those lakes, ponds on those islands.

GSHHS is excellent for ocean shorelines and bays, but wildly
inaccurate for large inland bodies of water (especially the Great
Lakes).  It often puts the shoreline more than 1km off from where it
should be, so that airports near the shore end up far out in the water
or far inland.  VMAP0 is relatively low resolution, but it gets the
Great Lakes shorelines in more-or-less the right place.

The problem, though, is not the accuracy of the shorelines (though
that's obviously important), but the type -- for some reason,
TerraGear has started to misinterpret the Great Lakes as ocean rather
than lake, and thus, it's cutting them right out of the scenery rather
than using the SRTM elevations.

I'm still going to look at your site, though, just for fun.


All the best,


David

--
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-10 Thread David Megginson
On 10/03/06, David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 GSHHS is excellent for ocean shorelines and bays, but wildly
 inaccurate for large inland bodies of water (especially the Great
 Lakes).  It often puts the shoreline more than 1km off from where it
 should be, so that airports near the shore end up far out in the water
 or far inland.  VMAP0 is relatively low resolution, but it gets the
 Great Lakes shorelines in more-or-less the right place.

Here's an example of the west end of Lake Ontario.  Note the extra
detail in the Vmap0 vs. the GSHHS, and also the fact that the GSHHS
puts much of downtown Toronto under water (I think it represents the
future after global warming):

http://document.ihg.uni-duisburg.de/cgi-bin/mapserv40?layer=lakes_lakelayer=lakes_intermittentlakelayer=cities_urbanlayer=gshhs_lakeslayer=gshhs_islandslayer=gshhs_pondszoomdir=1zoomsize=1imgxy=300.0+300.0imgext=-80.490972+42.550702+-78.374302+44.667372map=%2Fhome%2Fmas%2FWWW%2Flandcover%2Flandcover.maproot=%2Flandcoversavequery=trueprogram=%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmapserv40map_web_imagepath=%2Fhome%2Fmas%2FWWW%2Ftmp%2Fmap_web_imageurl=%2Ftmp%2Fmap_web_template=main.html

If that long link broke in your e-mail reader, try this one:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?J252326CC

The problem might be that TerraGear is now cropping against just the
landmass -- it actually has to crop against the union of the landmass,
islands, lakes, and everything else.


All the best,


David

--
http://www.megginson.com/


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-10 Thread Ralf Gerlich

Hi,

David Megginson schrieb:

The problem, though, is not the accuracy of the shorelines (though
that's obviously important), but the type -- for some reason,
TerraGear has started to misinterpret the Great Lakes as ocean rather
than lake, and thus, it's cutting them right out of the scenery rather
than using the SRTM elevations.


It seems that it's exactly that. I wasn't yet able to verify that, but 
it seems that the Great Lakes are not part of the landmass and are thus 
zeroed in altitude. I'm not sure why that worked in the previous releases.


Cheers,
Ralf


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-10 Thread Martin Spott
Hello David,

David Megginson wrote:

 GSHHS is excellent for ocean shorelines and bays, but wildly
 inaccurate for large inland bodies of water (especially the Great
 Lakes).

You should have a look at the new 1.3 dataset from October last year,
this is where the split between the different types was introduced. I'm
absolutely not sure if lake data has been improved but I actually do
have some hope. The GSHHS data in my DB is already the most up to date.

 The problem, though, is not the accuracy of the shorelines (though
 that's obviously important), but the type -- for some reason,
 TerraGear has started to misinterpret the Great Lakes as ocean rather
 than lake,

With the split GSHHS datasets the great lakes have been separated from
ocean data (to my memory). If the appropriate attributes are being
applied to the respective lake geometries, a task that I think is being
done in Terragear, there should be a chance to get things sorted out.

Cheers,
Martin.
-- 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-10 Thread David Megginson
On 10/03/06, Ralf Gerlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It seems that it's exactly that. I wasn't yet able to verify that, but
 it seems that the Great Lakes are not part of the landmass and are thus
 zeroed in altitude. I'm not sure why that worked in the previous releases.

I haven't looked at the TerraGear code for a long time, but in the
past, I think, we used to do a union of all the coverage types,
including lakes and islands, and use that as the mask.


All the best,


David

--
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-10 Thread Ralf Gerlich

Hi,


It seems that it's exactly that. I wasn't yet able to verify that, but
it seems that the Great Lakes are not part of the landmass and are thus
zeroed in altitude. I'm not sure why that worked in the previous releases.



I haven't looked at the TerraGear code for a long time, but in the
past, I think, we used to do a union of all the coverage types,
including lakes and islands, and use that as the mask.


That wouldn't match with the behaviour I encountered during the South 
Germany scenery builds. Only recently I've come across TerraGear making 
everything which is outside the landmass polygon (material Default) to 
be Ocean and at level 0.


I once reduced the landmass data from VMAP0 to a bit more manageable 
size by constraining it to the region we'd be working in for our 
scenery. As we touched that border we had a tile with extremely steep 
cliffs falling to the ocean where there should have been no ocean. The 
location of the cliff matched that of the border of our landmass polygon.


I think I've seen code in the current source calculating the landmass 
mask as the union of all polygons with Default material, which is then 
used to clip all other polygons.


Cheers,
Ralf


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-10 Thread Ron Jensen
On Thu, 2006-03-09 at 10:59 -0600, Curtis L. Olson wrote:

 
 3. Any other major issues?
 

Curt,

Last month I suggested a change[1] to TACAN_freq.dat and carrier_nav.dat
to enable TACAN to work on the proper channels.  I'd like to see this go
in so the F4E I'm working on can use the TACAN.

Since it seems the sourceforge list stripped the attachments they are on
my webserver: http://www.jentronics.com/fgfs/TACAN_freq.dat.gz and
http://www.jentronics.com/fgfs/carrier_nav.dat.gz 


[1]
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=9643858forum_id=1919

Thanks,

Ron




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[Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-09 Thread Curtis L. Olson
I would like to start working agressively towards the next FlightGear 
release which will be called v0.9.10 (putting off the v1.0 release for 
at least one more cycle.)  We have quite a few important features and 
aircraft added since the last release so I think it would be good to get 
a new release out the door.


I don't have a specific schedule worked out yet, but I think my target 
will be the end of March or first week in April.  That will give us a 
week to panic and discuss and lob heated accusations at each other, :-) 
then a week or two to test and bug fix, and then we can do the official 
release.


Here are the major issues I see:

1. We need to go through every JSBSim aircraft and make sure it has been 
converted to the new JSBSim v2.0 config file format, and make sure the 
control surface animations get added back in.


2. We need to aggressively hunt down any random crashes we might run 
into.  The word on the street is that current cvs is 'buggier' than the 
v0.9.9 release.  I'm not necessarily seeing that here so I wonder if the 
bugs are concentrated in some of the subsystems I don't use much (AI 
aircraft?, ATC system?, Carrier ops?, MP?)  In addition, the transiennt 
problems associated with our change over to JSBSim v2.0 may have also 
contributed to this impression, but hopefully the dust is settling on 
that one.


3. Any other major issues?

One point I would like to stress.  With any release, there are always 
people who say we can't possibly finalize the release until feature xyz 
is added, or until bug abc is fixed.  We should do our best to address 
those concerns, but at some point we have to go with what we have.  
These sorts of things could force us to never again have a release if we 
are required to fully address every concern that anyone brings up.


Thank you all for you help and participation in this project.  We have 
our warts and insufficiencies, but FlightGear is becoming more and more 
well known.  The collective capabilities of our project are becoming 
quite impressive.  Not every big name aerospace company is using FG, but 
I get to talk to a lot of people from a lot of interesting companies 
(big and small) that are using FlightGear or at least asking questions 
about it.


Thanks,

Curt.

--
Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt
HumanFIRST Program  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
FlightGear Project  http://www.flightgear.org
Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-09 Thread Vassilii Khachaturov
 3. Any other major issues?

I wonder if somebody (since Erik has retired from the patch integration
work) has my most recent rain cone patch (stage 2) in the incoming queue.
Or does it mean I have to ensure myself that enough other folks have
it tested also, and then check-in it myself? I haven't checked in anything
yet and wouldn't like to do this on my own w/o the project powers that be
telling me to.

This fix is a minor issue, but it includes a bugfix and
significant customization ability addon, as well as some
in-code cleanups and comments.

I wanted to add a pointer to the mailing list archives, but they still
seem to be broken; so I will be glad to re-post my last patch announcement
if needed. Meanwhile, I've opened a request with the support at sf.net
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=1446638group_id=1atid=21

Vassilii



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-09 Thread David Megginson
On 09/03/06, Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 3. Any other major issues?

The TerraGear scenery bug with the Great Lakes (and possibly other
large inland lakes?) is pretty serious -- it leaves many midwest U.S.
and central Canadian cities perched on giant cliffs overlooking the
lakes.


All the best,


David

--
http://www.megginson.com/


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-09 Thread Ralf Gerlich

Hi,

David Megginson schrieb:

Here's another one -- the DME is no longer working unless the DME is
associated with a VOR.  That's a big problem for anyone who uses
FlightGear for IFR practice (since DMEs are often associated with
localizers or used standalone).

I remember fixing this one once or twice in the past when people broke
it, so I'll volunteer to take another run at it before the release. 
Does anyone have any suggestions about recent changes that might have

broken it?  It's also possible, of course, that it's an instrument
configuration problem, and not in the core FlightGear engine at all.


The problem may be that Robin changed the nav.dat format to contain two 
DME-types instead of only one (http://x-plane.org/home/robinp/Nav810.htm)


There's no difference between the types except their type number and the 
fact that for one the frequency is displayed in X-Plane's maps while for 
the other it is not.


Cheers,
Ralf


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-09 Thread Durk Talsma
On Thursday 09 March 2006 17:59, Curtis L. Olson wrote:
 I would like to start working agressively towards the next FlightGear
 release which will be called v0.9.10 (putting off the v1.0 release for
 at least one more cycle.)  We have quite a few important features and
 aircraft added since the last release so I think it would be good to get
 a new release out the door.

 I don't have a specific schedule worked out yet, but I think my target
 will be the end of March or first week in April.  That will give us a
 week to panic and discuss and lob heated accusations at each other, :-)
 then a week or two to test and bug fix, and then we can do the official
 release.


Sounds good to me. It might be interesting to know that David Luff has been 
mentioning a release of Taxidraw at around the same time. In addition, 
together with a lot of help from Innis Cunningham and others, I'm working 
toward releasing a major set of AI Aircraft (in various repaints), which I 
also hope to have available around early April. Unfortunately, I don't think, 
I'll have a working traffic editor by then.

I still have the following issues on my TODO list:

- Catch the bogus lon/lat FATAL ERROR in the tile loader thread following a 
failed AIModel load. Note that this error occurs only when a non existing 
model is attemted to be loaded before any tiles are loaded. 

- Investigate whether commenting out all entries in data/Traffic results in an 
unknown error exception

- Prevent non-existing aircraft models from being loaded in the traffic 
manager at all. 

- Allow users to enable the traffic manager through the command line

- Allow dynamic runtime enabling/disabling of the traffic manager

- Investigate whether the time-related command line options are still working 
properly

Cheers,
Durk


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-09 Thread Lee Elliott
On Thursday 09 March 2006 19:35, David Megginson wrote:
 On 09/03/06, Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  3. Any other major issues?

 The TerraGear scenery bug with the Great Lakes (and possibly
 other large inland lakes?) is pretty serious -- it leaves many
 midwest U.S. and central Canadian cities perched on giant
 cliffs overlooking the lakes.


 All the best,


 David

 --
 http://www.megginson.com/

Sounds very scenic ;)

LeeE



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-09 Thread Curtis L. Olson

Ampere K. Hardraade wrote:


On Thursday 09 March 2006 11:59, Curtis L. Olson wrote:
 


3. Any other major issues?
   



KSFO in FlightGear seems to be sinking with each scenery rebuild.  It looked 
relatively fine back in the days of 0.9.5, but now, it is half a meter below 
the surrounding water; very ridiculous.
 



Thats a TerraGear issue, not a FlightGear issue.

Curt.

--
Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt
HumanFIRST Program  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
FlightGear Project  http://www.flightgear.org
Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-09 Thread Curtis L. Olson

David Megginson wrote:


On 09/03/06, Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 


3. Any other major issues?
   



The TerraGear scenery bug with the Great Lakes (and possibly other
large inland lakes?) is pretty serious -- it leaves many midwest U.S.
and central Canadian cities perched on giant cliffs overlooking the
lakes.
 



This must be an issue with the 'new' Shapefile version of the vmap0 
database.  Perhaps something did not get categorized properly in the 
conversion?  I've seen some odd water areas in the v0.9.10 scenery in 
place they shouldn't be.  I haven't had a chance to look into it 
though.  But ultimately this will need to get fixed at the data level.  
Perhaps the great lakes got categorized as ocean?  That would explain 
why terragear forced the altitude to zero.  Lakes are left in place with 
perhaps a bit of leveling and smoothing.  Another (less likely?) option 
is that the SRTMv2 data for those areas are zero elevation???  Maybe 
someone could do some poking around and at least narrow down where the 
problem lies.  Lakes marked as oceans? or bad srtm data?


Curt.

--
Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt
HumanFIRST Program  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
FlightGear Project  http://www.flightgear.org
Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Next FlightGear Release - upcoming.

2006-03-09 Thread Mathias Fröhlich
On Thursday 09 March 2006 17:59, Curtis L. Olson wrote:
 3. Any other major issues?
That mouse wrapping issue reported by Jean-Yves Lefort in an other thread 
these hours.
I noticed that too, will look into ...

   Greetings

  Mathias

-- 
Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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