Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Robicd wrote: > * Completely revised airport data file (apt.dat) that will allow > many new features, such as smoothly-curved taxiways, polygonal aprons, > airport boundary fences, enhanced taxiway markings (centre lines and > lights, edge lines), taxiway signs, and many other goodies." Aaaah, great . In my next live I'd better opt for a job as a prophet ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
* Robicd -- Saturday 08 April 2006 15:33: > "Enhancements to the X-Plane airport and nav-aid data [...] > taxiway signs, and many other goodies." That's good news. FYI: I'm in the progress of improving the signs, and half finished even. I have lighted signs with proportional fonts. (Not just a square per character, like before.) I just need to improve font & texture, and think about a syntax for the sign contents that is easy for humans and scripts. "FOO" or "12-34" will, of course, do the obvious, but we need some more control for arrows, colors, sizes. We'll see ... m. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Chris Metzler wrote: My main holdup in making them available (other than the missing characteristics named above) has been my being unsure of the best, uh, "deployment method." ... Automated generation would be fine, except for the fact that fgfs doesn't know about taxiway designations Hi Chris, at page http://www.x-plane.org/home/robinp/#Problems I read something that looks promising: "Enhancements to the X-Plane airport and nav-aid data that are currently under development include: * Completely revised airport data file (apt.dat) that will allow many new features, such as smoothly-curved taxiways, polygonal aprons, airport boundary fences, enhanced taxiway markings (centre lines and lights, edge lines), taxiway signs, and many other goodies." That means there is a good chance to have those taxiway signs placing information with a near future release of apt.dat :-) Roberto --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Robicd wrote: >> Very soon we'll see signs sitting in the middle of the taxiways > > We already see windsocks in the middle of taxiways :-) Not only this, in CYTZ the windsock is sitting on the first section of runway 08 :-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Very soon we'll see signs sitting in the middle of the taxiways We already see windsocks in the middle of taxiways :-) Roberto --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Melchior FRANZ wrote: > Ideally, TerraGear would add all of them. But yes, it would make > some sense to add the automatically generated sign locations to the > fgfsdb first, so that they can then be modified through user input. > I take the "ridiculous" back. :-) I entirely agree with you that the fgfsdb is probably not the best place for these objects but as now it's the only means we, the FlightGear project, have that allows for manual corrections. Instead, I personally would like to see information on the runway signs being stored in Robin's airport database because this is the only way to make airport editors aware of the signs. Otherwise we, the FlightGear project, will run into major trouble if someone alters the layout of an already existing airport. Very soon we'll see signs sitting in the middle of the taxiways because nobody likes spending all the time that is necessary to constantly monitor Robin's database and adjust the signs accordingly. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
* Chris Metzler -- Wednesday 05 April 2006 15:48: > We do indeed place the windsocks and beacons automatically; we're [...] Yes, I know all that. The point was that beacons, windsocks, signs are airport inventory, and are either in the apt/navaid/whatever databases or follow rather strict rules and can thus be produced by scripts like yours. While this won't (always) produce perfect results it's a good way to populate the airports with signs. That's why I thought it shouldn't be, or wouldn't have to be in the fgfsdb. Ideally, TerraGear would add all of them. But yes, it would make some sense to add the automatically generated sign locations to the fgfsdb first, so that they can then be modified through user input. I take the "ridiculous" back. :-) m. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Martin Spott wrote:
Almost every engineer facing a problem starts with creating a plan -
this is what we are being taught when real life hits us after leaving
university ;-)
What are the implications of the OBJECT_{TAXI,RUN}WAY_SIGN feature ?
If you/we walk this path this would imply creating gazillions of
scenery objects for all medium to large airports in the world.
Hi Martin,
I cannot agree more with you. I really hope we will have in the near
future some automatic way for inserting those taxiway signs in the airports.
I am currently playing a little bit with those signs on EDDF, it's
educative, I am learning how to read them, how to position them, it
helps a lot while taxing around.
But there's a very big con, it takes an enormous amount of time to
create and position them by hand. I started making some templates for
the most common combinations/dimensions and using a few script to
automate the process of rescaling and texturing them all. But it's not
enough, it takes too much time for even a single airport (of course,
EDDF is very big, not every airport is that much complicated).
Anyway, I will finish EDDF 'cause it could be nice to use that at
Wiesbaden LinuxTag as a starting airport, but I don't think I will do
that again :-)
Is there someone who knows EDDF well enough to check the result at EDDF
and tell me if it's close enough to reality? I'm basing the current work
on an FAA paper but I'm not an expert at all, I'd like to have some
comments from real pilots too. I think it will be finished (basic
runway/taxiway signs) in a couple of days.
The guy
who will be given credit to these objects in the Scenery Objects DB
will reach a score that will never get topped as long as our short life
lasts :-)
That's something I would not be proud of :-)
Roberto
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:17:14 +0200
Melchior FRANZ wrote:
>
> The idea that all the taxi/runway-signs would flood the fgfsdb is rather
> ridiculous. Are windsocks in the fgfsdb? No. The *.stg files are for
> static objects, period. This has *nothing* to do with the fgfsdb.
> The question was neither if we want those signs (of course we do), or
> if they are static objects (of course they are), but only how they
> should be created. I think it makes the most sense to use the existing
> (yet to be fixed) OBJECT_{RUNWAY,TAXI}_SIGN mechanism, because of the
> sheer number of possible combinations. Probably less effective methods
> would be to use "animated" xml/ac files (tex_translate etc.), or the
> use of render-to-texture.
>
> Of course the signs would have to be placed automatically, while manual
> corrections/additions should always be possible. Just like for
> windsocks, beacons etc.
We do indeed place the windsocks and beacons automatically; we're able
to do that because their positions are specified in the apt.dat file.
But plenty of other airport facilities with known positions, such as
ILS glideslope/localizers, inner/middle/outer markers, etc., *are* in
the object database, despite similar knowledge of location in fgfs
standard files. In principle, those could be handled the same way as
the beacons and windsocks; but right now, they're currently in the
fgfsdb. I don't see that as "ridiculous". But I agree with you that
if there's no need to place a million new objects in the db to cover
the signs, that's preferrable (like I said, the best way to solve that
problem was a holdup for me to continue in the first place).
-c
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Hi, On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 08:57:08AM -0400, Chris Metzler wrote: > My main holdup in making them available (other than the missing > characteristics named above) has been my being unsure of the best, uh, > "deployment method." As Ralf noted, placing all these in the FGFSDB I said what? I think you're mixing me up with Martin ;-) > the way in which we overlap taxiways to make odd shapes, etc. So I > was also playing around with the idea of trying to write some code > for David Luff so that these could get placed by someone using e.g > TaxiDraw, while looking at taxiway designations (e.g. through > FAA/airnav.com). Obviously that would require TaxiDraw to then write > some sort of second file containing that info, such as a patch to > an .stg file. I dunno whether that's ideal, or whether David Luff > would be interested in pursuing it. As I said: In a branch of the TaxiDraw CVS I am working on some generalisation of the TaxiDraw GUI exactly with the target of making it easier to extend TaxiDraw with new features such as logical taxiway networks, rounded edges, taxi signs or whatever seems useful. The approach is a bit more modular and the goal is that such extensions are possible by adding a single class for each new map object type. Unfortunately this is quite a big chunk of work and I haven't gotten to working on it recently. I had wanted to do at least some more general documentation of the design approach for somebody else to join, but I don't even get enough time to do that (or when I have time I'm not exactly in the mood for writing docs ;-) ) Cheers, Ralf --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 08:57:08 -0400 Chris Metzler wrote: > As Ralf noted, placing all these in the FGFSDB > will result in a lot of objects in the DB, although I don't know that > the number count would cause a problem (hey Ralf, I think I'm already > the winner in that contest, since I think I'm responsible for about 90 > or 95% of the U.S. objects!). Oops: 1. It was Martin that made that comment, not Ralf; 2. By having done a large # count of objects in the U.S., I was referring to identifying object locations; the set of models used at those locations came for the most part from Jon, and a little from me and from others, of course. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove "snip-me." to email) "As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
The idea that all the taxi/runway-signs would flood the fgfsdb is rather
ridiculous. Are windsocks in the fgfsdb? No. The *.stg files are for
static objects, period. This has *nothing* to do with the fgfsdb.
The question was neither if we want those signs (of course we do), or
if they are static objects (of course they are), but only how they should
be created. I think it makes the most sense to use the existing (yet to
be fixed) OBJECT_{RUNWAY,TAXI}_SIGN mechanism, because of the sheer number
of possible combinations. Probably less effective methods would be to use
"animated" xml/ac files (tex_translate etc.), or the use of render-to-texture.
Of course the signs would have to be placed automatically, while manual
corrections/additions should always be possible. Just like for windsocks,
beacons etc.
* Chris Metzler -- Wednesday 05 April 2006 14:57:
> I've already made most of these in Blender and the Gimp,
I have made a Type1 font of all components, and could quickly generate
the textures with original font according to the spec. Some random
Grotesk/Helevtica is better than nothing, but if we can have the real
thing ... :-) OTOH, if you want yours to be used, I have no problem
with that.
> [...] to the work I did a year and a half ago on the Runway Distance Remaining
> Signs and the Python script that places them in an automated fashion.
I know, and it was, of course, my plan to use such an automated process
for placing the signs.
> [...] except for the fact that fgfs doesn't know about taxiway designations
> -- how would it know that this taxiway is "A", this one is "B", etc.,
That's IMHO not a problem. Who stops us from using what we have now, and adding
more as we get the info? If OBJECT_{RUNWAY,TAXI}_SIGN worked/works, we
could/can always add signs as we please.
m.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 08:06:47 +0200
Melchior FRANZ wrote:
>
>
> Hey, I said "consider"! ... OK ... then, hmm ... I've started to make
> a font from the pictures in that *.pdf, and it will be easy to create
> all the signs from that. Then we'll see how to continue. (If somebody
> objects to the old OBJECT_{TAXI,RUN}WAY_SIGN feature being resurrected,
> please tell us now. Someone 'constructive' maybe?)
I have no idea whether this is a "constructive objection" or not -- but
I've already made most of these in Blender and the Gimp, as an adjunct
to the work I did a year and a half ago on the Runway Distance Remaining
Signs and the Python script that places them in an automated fashion. I
have taxiway identifiers and runway intersections, and a brief script that
places them next to each other so that they appear to be the same sign.
Some other things like runway approach boundary, ILS hold and approach
hold signs as well. I hadn't yet gotten around to arrow signs for taxiway
routings, or to nighttime versions. They're compliant with both
FAA AC-150-5340-18C and FAA AC-150-5345-44G.
My main holdup in making them available (other than the missing
characteristics named above) has been my being unsure of the best, uh,
"deployment method." As Ralf noted, placing all these in the FGFSDB
will result in a lot of objects in the DB, although I don't know that
the number count would cause a problem (hey Ralf, I think I'm already
the winner in that contest, since I think I'm responsible for about 90
or 95% of the U.S. objects!). Is that the best way to do them? Or
some other distribution method in which they come as a package deal by
airport?
Automated generation would be fine, except for the fact that fgfs
doesn't know about taxiway designations -- how would it know that
this taxiway is "A", this one is "B", etc., since that's not in the
apt.dat in any way? I have periodically worked on software to figure
out locations for intersection signs, much like the code I wrote for
the RDRS signs; but it's a really hard problem because of things like
the way we use multiple short taxiways to form a curved single taxiway,
the way in which we overlap taxiways to make odd shapes, etc. So I
was also playing around with the idea of trying to write some code
for David Luff so that these could get placed by someone using e.g
TaxiDraw, while looking at taxiway designations (e.g. through
FAA/airnav.com). Obviously that would require TaxiDraw to then write
some sort of second file containing that info, such as a patch to
an .stg file. I dunno whether that's ideal, or whether David Luff
would be interested in pursuing it.
-c
--
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Ralf Gerlich wrote: > In the medium to long term we will get that info from TaxiDraw ;-) > Durk already integrated logical network editing for AI aircraft in > TaxiDraw without having to extend or modify the apt.dat format. After > all the chance that the format of Robin's database changes in a more > logical-layout-oriented way has increased enormously, AFAIK ;-) Well, this sounds really promising and would solve lost of difficulties we currently face. Still this requires a significant amount of work to add the logic to the existing airfields Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Hi, On Wed, Apr 05, 2006 at 10:04:46AM +, Martin Spott wrote: > Even if someone enables TerraGear to create these signs on the fly > during scenery generation (which I favour over keeping the signs in the > Objects DB) we still face the problem that we lack the logical airport > layout. In the medium to long term we will get that info from TaxiDraw ;-) Durk already integrated logical network editing for AI aircraft in TaxiDraw without having to extend or modify the apt.dat format. After all the chance that the format of Robin's database changes in a more logical-layout-oriented way has increased enormously, AFAIK ;-) I very much hope to get back into my TaxiDraw rework ASAP, but I fear it won't be anytime soon - at least not before LinuxTag ;-) Cheers, Ralf -- Ralf Gerlichhttp://home.easylink.de/rgerlich PGP: 1024D/54F7 B9AC 1CE4 137E 7791 3E63 4BB6 E425 AF97 3BCF Software patents kill innovation, SMEs and OpenSource! Kill SWPats!!! http://nosoftwarepatents.com/ --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Hi Melchior,
Melchior FRANZ wrote:
> Hey, I said "consider"! ... OK ... then, hmm ... I've started to make
> a font from the pictures in that *.pdf, and it will be easy to create
> all the signs from that. Then we'll see how to continue. (If somebody
> objects to the old OBJECT_{TAXI,RUN}WAY_SIGN feature being resurrected,
> please tell us now. Someone 'constructive' maybe?)
:-))
Almost every engineer facing a problem starts with creating a plan -
this is what we are being taught when real life hits us after leaving
university ;-)
What are the implications of the OBJECT_{TAXI,RUN}WAY_SIGN feature ?
If you/we walk this path this would imply creating gazillions of
scenery objects for all medium to large airports in the world. The guy
who will be given credit to these objects in the Scenery Objects DB
will reach a score that will never get topped as long as our short life
lasts :-)
This is the funny side of this feature. On the other hand we'll always
have to keep those signs in the Scenery Objects DB in sync with the
version of the airports database that Curt uses for creating the
'official' scenery. This would mean we'd have to re-create all these
signs before Curt pulls the Objects DB export for a new scenery
release. We _could_ do that, assign an object type for these signs and
drop all signs before re-creating. _But_ in order to get this done we
need a logic that automagically creates the placement of these signs
from the airport layout - and here lies the problem: We currently don't
have a logical layout to our airports that allows extracting the
required information for placement of the signs.
Even if someone enables TerraGear to create these signs on the fly
during scenery generation (which I favour over keeping the signs in the
Objects DB) we still face the problem that we lack the logical airport
layout.
How are the chances that we will have access to such airport layout in
the future ? If the chances are good, then I'd suggest to go ahead and
evolve your idea.
Cheers,
Martin.
--
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[Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
* Robicd -- Tuesday 04 April 2006 14:22:
> Melchior FRANZ wrote:
> > * Robicd -- Tuesday 04 April 2006 13:09:
> > > I hope someone will consider developing that old code and [...]
> > I'm considering that for a while now. :-)
> Well, a lot of scenery designers will thank you for that.
Hey, I said "consider"! ... OK ... then, hmm ... I've started to make
a font from the pictures in that *.pdf, and it will be easy to create
all the signs from that. Then we'll see how to continue. (If somebody
objects to the old OBJECT_{TAXI,RUN}WAY_SIGN feature being resurrected,
please tell us now. Someone 'constructive' maybe?)
m.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Melchior FRANZ wrote: http://www.google.com/search?q=5345-44f Do these rules apply to Europe too? Roberto --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Robicd -- Tuesday 04 April 2006 13:09: I hope someone will consider developing that old code and make it flexible enough for covering the most cases we have in almost every airport. I'm considering that for a while now. :-) Well, a lot of scenery designers will thank you for that. It's something which makes the difference when taxing around in a big airport. I know, people most of the times do fly with a simulator and don't do a lot of parking operations. I wish that will change, it's still part of the simulation, even real pilots have a hard life when parking in unknown airports (do you know the joke about the Brit pilots talking to tower while parking at Frankfurt?), FlightGear could be a good way of learning such pretty easy tasks too. Just another question before going back to Gimp-Blender: do taxyway signs emit light in the night? http://www.google.com/search?q=5345-44f That's very interesting. I am reading it now. Thanks you Melchior, that will help me a lot :-) Roberto --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Robicd wrote: > Just another question before going back to Gimp-Blender: do taxyway > signs emit light in the night? It depends :-) I know different sorts of taxiway signs: Some are made from simple metal plates, some of those are illuminated from exterior at night, using a spot light that shines at the plate. I'm sure I've already seen signs that consist of a box with a semi-transparent front, illuminated from a light source in the back - but I don't remember where I've seen these, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
* Robicd -- Tuesday 04 April 2006 13:09: > I hope someone will consider developing that old code and make it flexible > enough for covering the most cases we have in almost every airport. I'm considering that for a while now. :-) > Just another question before going back to Gimp-Blender: do taxyway > signs emit light in the night? http://www.google.com/search?q=5345-44f m. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
Melchior FRANZ wrote: # use letters <>AZaz, for example: 3 'A' signs OBJECT_TAXI_SIGN AAA -122.357357 37.613917 0 150 BTW: The comment was actually meant seriously: "use letters <>AZaz" I hoped you forgot 09 in <>09AZaz. Or more correctly: use one or more of (A) lower-than, (B) greater-than, (C) upper case and (D) lower case letters. (A) and (B) are thought for arrows. Forgot to mention -- these are the expected material names: (A) '<' -> ArrowL.rgb (B) '>' -> ArrowR.rgb (C) 'A' .. 'Z' -> LetterA.rgb .. LetterZ.rgb (D) 'a' .. 'z' -> BlackA.rgb .. BlackZ.rgb And I'm afraid OBJECT_RUNWAY_SIGN are always squares, and OBJECT_TAXI_SIGN are one or more squares side by side, depending on the number of letters. m. Ref: simgear/scene/tgdb/apt_signs.cxx Thank you very much Melchior, that was clear and complete. Sad enough :-( so I have to give up with this, because it fails with many necessary details (up, left-up and right-up arrows, numbers, white on red signs ...). I will go back using traditional blender obejcts instead; it's more time consuming of course, but I will have enough freedom to build every custom taxiway sign I want. I know I will regreat this, I hope someone will consider developing that old code and make it flexible enough for covering the most cases we have in almost every airport. Just another question before going back to Gimp-Blender: do taxyway signs emit light in the night? I guess an obvious answer would be "yes", I just need confirmation from people who fly real too. Roberto --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
* Robicd -- Tuesday 04 April 2006 12:12: * * Melchior FRANZ: > > # use letters <>AZaz, for example: 3 'A' signs > > OBJECT_TAXI_SIGN AAA -122.357357 37.613917 0 150 BTW: The comment was actually meant seriously: "use letters <>AZaz" Or more correctly: use one or more of (A) lower-than, (B) greater-than, (C) upper case and (D) lower case letters. (A) and (B) are thought for arrows. This supposed that there's a texture for every used element. I really only have letterA here. On my TODO was to write a small script that created the signs using ImageMagick. Or something. :-) > > # texture name from material.xml > > OBJECT_RUNWAY_SIGN Town -122.357367 37.613927 2 150 > > Not done. What's this "Town" material? That's just an example, right? > Maybe I should put something like: Just an example, yes. But not a fictitious one. As the comment above says: This is a texture name from materials.xml: $ grep -1 "\" $FG_ROOT/materials.xml Town <-- this here Terrain/Town1.rgb > OBJECT_RUNWAY_SIGN 07-25 -122.357367 37.613927 2 150 > Where 07-25 is a runway number. But that means I need a 07-25 material > in materials.xml too. Yes. > Does the sign code also create variable lenght signs? > Maybe that's something I'm just imagining ... there's something > wrong with this explanation (or with me trying to understand it). Don't try too hard to understand it. There's a reason why this was never used before and after that famous screenshot. ;-) This was before I joined the fgfs community, and I think it was a proof of concept or a first stab at taxi/runway signs, but never really finished. That's why nobody used it. And this in turn is why it never got finished ... chicken/(Easter)egg. m. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
* Melchior FRANZ -- Tuesday 04 April 2006 12:39: > * Robicd -- Tuesday 04 April 2006 12:12: > * * Melchior FRANZ: > > > # use letters <>AZaz, for example: 3 'A' signs > > > OBJECT_TAXI_SIGN AAA -122.357357 37.613917 0 150 > > BTW: The comment was actually meant seriously: "use letters <>AZaz" > Or more correctly: use one or more of (A) lower-than, (B) greater-than, > (C) upper case and (D) lower case letters. (A) and (B) are thought > for arrows. Forgot to mention -- these are the expected material names: (A) '<' -> ArrowL.rgb (B) '>' -> ArrowR.rgb (C) 'A' .. 'Z' -> LetterA.rgb .. LetterZ.rgb (D) 'a' .. 'z' -> BlackA.rgb .. BlackZ.rgb And I'm afraid OBJECT_RUNWAY_SIGN are always squares, and OBJECT_TAXI_SIGN are one or more squares side by side, depending on the number of letters. m. Ref: simgear/scene/tgdb/apt_signs.cxx --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
You need entries for the letters in materials.xml: LetterA.rgb Signs/LetterA.rgb Done (I created Letter0.rgb, Letter7.rgb and LetterL.rgb, saved them in data/textures/Signs/ and then modified the materials.xml adding three materials blocks like the one above). and entries like this in the *.stg files: # use letters <>AZaz, for example: 3 'A' signs OBJECT_TAXI_SIGN AAA -122.357357 37.613917 0 150 Done. # texture name from material.xml OBJECT_RUNWAY_SIGN Town -122.357367 37.613927 2 150 Not done. What's this "Town" material? That's just an example, right? Maybe I should put something like: OBJECT_RUNWAY_SIGN 07-25 -122.357367 37.613927 2 150 Where 07-25 is a runway number. But that means I need a 07-25 material in materials.xml too. Does the sign code also create variable lenght signs? Maybe that's something I'm just imagining ... there's something wrong with this explanation (or with me trying to understand it). Anyway, after having done the first 2 steps, I run FGFS and get this error: Unknown taxi sign code = '0' ! And no taxiway signs appears on the screen. Melchior, can you please take a look at this and tell me if I missed something? Roberto --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
* Robicd -- Tuesday 04 April 2006 01:30: > > You need entries for the letters in materials.xml: [...] > > and entries like this in the *.stg files: [...] > There's nothing like that in materials.xml and no Letter*.rgb in my FGFS > installation. Should I create the Letters.rgb files by myself and then > add appropriate entries in materials.xml? Sure. I didn't say you *have* these entries, but you *need* them. m. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
You need entries for the letters in materials.xml: LetterA.rgb Signs/LetterA.rgb ... and entries like this in the *.stg files: # use letters <>AZaz, for example: 3 'A' signs OBJECT_TAXI_SIGN AAA -122.357357 37.613917 0 150 # texture name from material.xml OBJECT_RUNWAY_SIGN Town -122.357367 37.613927 2 150 There's nothing like that in materials.xml and no Letter*.rgb in my FGFS installation. Should I create the Letters.rgb files by myself and then add appropriate entries in materials.xml? Roberto --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Taxiway signs, howto?
* Roberto Inzerillo -- Monday 03 April 2006 22:55: > I've seen there's some code to get taxyway signs with simple ascii > files (http://www.flightgear.org/Gallery-v0.9.8/Link/KSJC-signex4.html), > does that still work? Where can I know more? You need entries for the letters in materials.xml: LetterA.rgb Signs/LetterA.rgb ... and entries like this in the *.stg files: # use letters <>AZaz, for example: 3 'A' signs OBJECT_TAXI_SIGN AAA -122.357357 37.613917 0 150 # texture name from material.xml OBJECT_RUNWAY_SIGN Town -122.357367 37.613927 2 150 m. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
