Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
Hi, Okay, that's a useful data point, I'll take a look at that in the next few days (in between eating too much...). I assume all interactions with the system are occurring through the radios and autopilot *dialogs* (F12 and F11), not the cockpit panel? The cockpitpanel isn't working fully right now, as not yet completed, but the dialogs and the autopilot.xml are untouched by me. Do other autopilot modes work? Do the VNAV modes work, aside from NAV1-GS hold? VNAV seems to work. Only ILS-Approaches aren't possible right now. Take a look at Syd's scripts? The core flightdirector.nas scripts are pretty clear, though as always I wish less copying of files into each aircraft went on. I already took a look into several times, but if I would able to use the Bravo-flightdirector as an example I wouldn't have said this. Syd's flightdirector seems to dependant on other things ( not always other simlated systems) so I wasn't able yet to use this. If you want help understanding what the scripts do, and how they are structured, I'm happy to (try to) help. (Actually I think the scripts could be simplified quite a bit, but Syd may disagree - he knows better than me!) That's another big point of it - still don't understand quite right waht's the script is doing, how it is structured. The flight-drector issue is complicated because the generic autopilot doesn't provide anything in this area. I have briefly wondered about writing a C++ generic flight director, but I don't think it's a good idea - people who want an accurate flight-drector for a real aircraft will find it much easier to write a specific one in Nasal (to go with a custom autopilot) than try to work with a generic C++ one, I think. But a generic flightdirector with comments written in nasal could help much more. Like the generic systems, autopilot.xml etc... I'd also be happy to start collecting an 'autopilot internals' wiki page, to collect information about this kind of thing in a proper place, and to go alongside my existing route-manager and GPS/FMS internals documents. That is a good idea! Merry Christmas HHS __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
I already took a look into several times, but if I would able to use the Bravo-flightdirector as an example I wouldn't have said this. Syd's flightdirector seems to dependant on other things ( not always other simlated systems) so I wasn't able yet to use this. I guess a short explanation of the flight director nasal code is this: It is more or less an autopilot controller , to manage modes like armed , then capture points, and handle pilot button presses... The autopilot in passive mode IS acting as a flight director , since it goes through the motions , but doesn't output the results to the control surfaces .Those outputs can be used to animate V-bars. That nasal code probably could use a serious cleaning up , its been a learn as i go project ... Its also adapted from Curt's original flight director code , which I probably trashed trying to be helpful :) Cheers and Merry Christmas -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
Hi, With the aircraft I test with, that's what I see - the C172, the Seneca, the B1900 and, to a lesser degree, the 777-200 (though it has some other problems). I guess the problem may be, that all of those aircraft have quite well developed, non-generic autopilots. Unfortunately they are only few ones Aside from the GPS setting true-heading-hold when it shouldn't, what problems are people seeing with heading-hold and nav1-hold? Please let me know the specific aircraft, steps to reproduce, expected behaviour and actual behaviour. I will assume people are testing with latest data/ and FG/SG sources. Regards, James I can't use the latest data and sources, but just as compare and help: 737-300 (Using the autopilot.panel via F11)- in 19.1 the 737-300 was the airliner with the best autopilot behavior recommended for ILS-approaches done by ap. with my last built from 11/27/2009 the aircraft didn't responded anymore on NAV1-Hold and GS. Cheers HHS P.S.:I'm beware of that the actually 737-300 needs a own written flightdirector like the Citation Bravo and other aircrafts from Syd has to be real - but how to write one? __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
On 23 Dec 2009, at 11:42, Heiko Schulz wrote: 737-300 (Using the autopilot.panel via F11)- in 19.1 the 737-300 was the airliner with the best autopilot behavior recommended for ILS-approaches done by ap. with my last built from 11/27/2009 the aircraft didn't responded anymore on NAV1-Hold and GS. Okay, that's a useful data point, I'll take a look at that in the next few days (in between eating too much...). I assume all interactions with the system are occurring through the radios and autopilot *dialogs* (F12 and F11), not the cockpit panel? These are the kind of things that people don't mention, but make a big difference in testing. Do other autopilot modes work? Do the VNAV modes work, aside from NAV1-GS hold? P.S.:I'm beware of that the actually 737-300 needs a own written flightdirector like the Citation Bravo and other aircrafts from Syd has to be real - but how to write one? Take a look at Syd's scripts? The core flightdirector.nas scripts are pretty clear, though as always I wish less copying of files into each aircraft went on. If you want help understanding what the scripts do, and how they are structured, I'm happy to (try to) help. (Actually I think the scripts could be simplified quite a bit, but Syd may disagree - he knows better than me!) The flight-drector issue is complicated because the generic autopilot doesn't provide anything in this area. I have briefly wondered about writing a C++ generic flight director, but I don't think it's a good idea - people who want an accurate flight-drector for a real aircraft will find it much easier to write a specific one in Nasal (to go with a custom autopilot) than try to work with a generic C++ one, I think. I'd also be happy to start collecting an 'autopilot internals' wiki page, to collect information about this kind of thing in a proper place, and to go alongside my existing route-manager and GPS/FMS internals documents. Regards, James -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
Hi, There were major changes on the GPS and Route-Manager since August (3 Months ago already!) So this has affected the the use of the autopilot as well. All aircrafts using the generic Autopilot-panel are affected, but not those with an own written flightdirector like Syds Aircrafts (Citation Bravo works perfect) or with own configured autopilots like the senecaII, c172p, PA24-250. True-Heading can be used with the DTO-Mode in the GPS-menu in the Menubar. I think James can tell more! Cheers HHS Hi, Why is the autopilot broken? Specifically on my models like bluebird (or ufo if you prefer), I started to implement a requested feature, but found it does not work like it used to. The property: /autopilot/settings/true-heading-deg acts like it is being set by something else that shouldn't. When pressing the Heading Hold button on the panel, my aircraft flies in circles, because this property is constantly changing. Or with c172p press [F11] to load autopilot settings, click True Heading, and attempt to give it a heading to follow! I am surprised the c172p is broken as well, so it is not just my models. Is there a reason the Autopilot on the top menubar is greyed out? I narrowed down the time frame when this changed. It works correctly Aug.11 and early Aug.12 (stays nil until set, and stays as set), and is broken Aug.13 Changes include: P source/src/Airports/simple.hxx P source/src/Autopilot/route_mgr.cxx P source/src/Cockpit/hud.cxx P source/src/Environment/environment_ctrl.cxx P source/src/FDM/JSBSim/ 105 files updated by ehofman (Is that you Eric?) P source/src/Instrumentation/** 5 files If you press [/] right after the scenery starts loading, then quickly click down 2 directory levels, you can watch when this property starts getting set. Throttle up and the autopilot heading starts changing faster and faster, slows down at 180 from current heading, then speeds up as fast as 10 degrees per second. Quite wild. I also searched the last few months of messages, but can't find anything relevant to this. Stewart -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
S Andreason wrote: Hi, Why is the autopilot broken? Specifically on my models like bluebird (or ufo if you prefer), I started to implement a requested feature, but found it does not work like it used to. The property: /autopilot/settings/true-heading-deg acts like it is being set by something else that shouldn't. P source/src/FDM/JSBSim/ 105 files updated by ehofman (Is that you Eric?) It is me indeed, but I just synchronize JSBSim CVS and FlightGear at that point. If JSBSim is the cause (which I find hard to believe at this point) then there' s something severely wrong since JSBSim has no business updating anything under /autopilot. Erik -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
On 21 Dec 2009, at 16:33, Heiko Schulz wrote: There were major changes on the GPS and Route-Manager since August (3 Months ago already!) So this has affected the the use of the autopilot as well. All aircrafts using the generic Autopilot-panel are affected, but not those with an own written flightdirector like Syds Aircrafts (Citation Bravo works perfect) or with own configured autopilots like the senecaII, c172p, PA24-250. True-Heading can be used with the DTO-Mode in the GPS-menu in the Menubar. I think James can tell more! The issue / feature here is that the route-manager code has 'always' (for years, at least) directly set /autopilot/settings/true-heading-deg based on its internal route-following logic. Personally I don't think it's a great feature, but people do use it (the route manager) in conjunction with the generic autopilot dialog to quickly navigate between waypoints. When I broke the feature by accident, it was noticed, and people asked for the feature back. As far as I know, the old route-manager code behaved much the same as my code does now - but it sounds as if you disagree? For the record, my perception is that entering a value in the generic autopilot dialog for 'true heading' has never worked, because the value would **always** be over-written by the route manager. What *has* changed is that the value now actually comes from the GPS code, not the route-manager. Both are equally 'generic' (just like the autopilot itself), it was just simpler from a code design perspective to handle the autopilot interaction in the GPS code, and keep the route-manager separated. Does this fit with what you're seeing? Regards, James -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
Hi, Why is the autopilot broken? Specifically on my models like bluebird (or ufo if you prefer), I started to implement a requested feature, but found it does not work like it used to. The property: /autopilot/settings/true-heading-deg acts like it is being set by something else that shouldn't. The GPS code sets the property /autopilot/settings/true-heading-deg if /instrumentation/gps/config/drive-autopilot is true (which is true by default). I don't know much about the details of the new gps code from James Turner, maybe he could chime in for some explanation... Greetings, Torsten -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 11:17 AM, James Turner wrote: For the record, my perception is that entering a value in the generic autopilot dialog for 'true heading' has never worked, because the value would **always** be over-written by the route manager. This would only have been the case if there were any pending waypoints in the route manager. If all waypoints had been reached, or no waypoints have been entered, then the 'old' route manager should not have touched the true-heading-target value. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
Heiko Schulz wrote: Hi, There were major changes on the GPS and Route-Manager since August (3 Months ago already!) So this has affected the the use of the autopilot as well. All aircrafts using the generic Autopilot-panel are affected, but not those with an own written flightdirector like Syds Aircrafts (Citation Bravo works perfect) or with own configured autopilots like the senecaII, c172p, PA24-250. Citation Bravo does not work :-( True Heading goes in circles pete -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
Hi James, As far as I know, the old route-manager code behaved much the same as my code does now - but it sounds as if you disagree? Yep, and Torsten already decribed it well: The GPS code sets the property /autopilot/settings/true-heading-deg if /instrumentation/gps/config/drive-autopilot is true (which is true by default). I don't know much about the details of the new gps code from James Turner, maybe he could chime in for some explanation... On the 737 and other aircraft (except those I mentioned in my previous posting) I have to use the DTO-Mode. Otherwise it won't fly to the next waypoint. So several Aircrafts needs fixing. The other thing, but I already mentioned it in the IRC-Chat, is that NAV1-Heading-hold and NAV1-GS-Hold isn't working anymore. Only the one with nasal-scripted Autopilots. We haven't got much of them For the record, my perception is that entering a value in the generic autopilot dialog for 'true heading' has never worked, because the value would **always** be over-written by the route manager. It worked as long we didn't use the Route-manager. Like Curt already said, with pending waypoints the values are overwritten, but only then. That hasn't changed. What *has* changed is that the value now actually comes from the GPS code, not the route-manager. Both are equally 'generic' (just like the autopilot itself), it was just simpler from a code design perspective to handle the autopilot interaction in the GPS code, and keep the route-manager separated. Does this fit with what you're seeing? Yep, but though a lot of aircrafts has to be fixed before release, or otherwise we will really have a debacle! Cheers HHS -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
Hi, Heiko Schulz wrote: Hi, There were major changes on the GPS and Route-Manager since August (3 Months ago already!) So this has affected the the use of the autopilot as well. All aircrafts using the generic Autopilot-panel are affected, but not those with an own written flightdirector like Syds Aircrafts (Citation Bravo works perfect) or with own configured autopilots like the senecaII, c172p, PA24-250. Citation Bravo does not work :-( True Heading goes in circles pete Really with current CVS? It is the only aircraft I can use for realistic approaches, SIDs and STARs, Route-flying ... CVS 11/27/2009 Cheers HHS __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
One note on using route manager - in a 12/13 CVS - if includes the departure airport as a waypoint automatically. If you activate it on the ground it will move past it on the takeoff roll and proceed to the next waypoint. If you don't activate it until in the air it will circle back to the departure airport as the first waypoint. Peter On Dec 21, 2009, at 12:17 PM, James Turner wrote: On 21 Dec 2009, at 16:33, Heiko Schulz wrote: There were major changes on the GPS and Route-Manager since August (3 Months ago already!) So this has affected the the use of the autopilot as well. All aircrafts using the generic Autopilot-panel are affected, but not those with an own written flightdirector like Syds Aircrafts (Citation Bravo works perfect) or with own configured autopilots like the senecaII, c172p, PA24-250. True-Heading can be used with the DTO-Mode in the GPS-menu in the Menubar. I think James can tell more! The issue / feature here is that the route-manager code has 'always' (for years, at least) directly set /autopilot/settings/true-heading-deg based on its internal route-following logic. Personally I don't think it's a great feature, but people do use it (the route manager) in conjunction with the generic autopilot dialog to quickly navigate between waypoints. When I broke the feature by accident, it was noticed, and people asked for the feature back. As far as I know, the old route-manager code behaved much the same as my code does now - but it sounds as if you disagree? For the record, my perception is that entering a value in the generic autopilot dialog for 'true heading' has never worked, because the value would **always** be over-written by the route manager. What *has* changed is that the value now actually comes from the GPS code, not the route-manager. Both are equally 'generic' (just like the autopilot itself), it was just simpler from a code design perspective to handle the autopilot interaction in the GPS code, and keep the route-manager separated. Does this fit with what you're seeing? Regards, James -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
On 21 Dec 2009, at 17:59, Heiko Schulz wrote: It worked as long we didn't use the Route-manager. Like Curt already said, with pending waypoints the values are overwritten, but only then. That hasn't changed. Okay, so that's where the bug has come from, I need to fix the logic to only drive this property when GPS 'leg' mode is active. Yep, but though a lot of aircrafts has to be fixed before release, or otherwise we will really have a debacle! It is not my intention, or expectation, that many aircraft should need to be changed at all. Aircraft that used the old gps or route-manager directly will need changes (eg, the 787, and Concorde INS code, but that's non-functional anyway) but my *intention* was always that most aircraft, whether using the generic autopilot, or a customised XML autopilot, would work exactly as before. With the aircraft I test with, that's what I see - the C172, the Seneca, the B1900 and, to a lesser degree, the 777-200 (though it has some other problems). I guess the problem may be, that all of those aircraft have quite well developed, non-generic autopilots. Aside from the GPS setting true-heading-hold when it shouldn't, what problems are people seeing with heading-hold and nav1-hold? Please let me know the specific aircraft, steps to reproduce, expected behaviour and actual behaviour. I will assume people are testing with latest data/ and FG/SG sources. Regards, James -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
On 21 Dec 2009, at 18:10, Peter Brown wrote: One note on using route manager - in a 12/13 CVS - if includes the departure airport as a waypoint automatically. If you activate it on the ground it will move past it on the takeoff roll and proceed to the next waypoint. If you don't activate it until in the air it will circle back to the departure airport as the first waypoint. I thought I'd fixed that back at the start of October, soon after the initial commit - Curt complained that h couldn't start a route 'in-air' so I removed the need for departure/destination airports. Ah, I get it - you're specifying a departure airport, but then not activating the route until airborne. Hmm. I'm not sure that's actually a bug. Activating a route starts a leg to the first waypoint ... regardless of wether that's 'behind' you in the route or anything. In real-life I'd activate the route, then select the enroute waypoint I wanted to 'start' from, and 'DTO' on it, to head straight there - that's exactly how I fly departures where ATC vector me, then clear me to a SID waypoint. What do you think would be a sensible course of action, in the situation you describe? Even if I choose not to add the departure airport for in-air route activation, there's no guarantee that the first route waypoint is where you actually want to be going. Regards, James -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 12:43 PM, James Turner zakal...@mac.com wrote: It is not my intention, or expectation, that many aircraft should need to be changed at all. Aircraft that used the old gps or route-manager directly will need changes (eg, the 787, and Concorde INS code, but that's non-functional anyway) but my *intention* was always that most aircraft, whether using the generic autopilot, or a customised XML autopilot, would work exactly as before. With the aircraft I test with, that's what I see - the C172, the Seneca, the B1900 and, to a lesser degree, the 777-200 (though it has some other problems). I guess the problem may be, that all of those aircraft have quite well developed, non-generic autopilots. Aside from the GPS setting true-heading-hold when it shouldn't, what problems are people seeing with heading-hold and nav1-hold? Please let me know the specific aircraft, steps to reproduce, expected behaviour and actual behaviour. I will assume people are testing with latest data/ and FG/SG sources. Hi James, The one aircraft I enjoy flying is the Alphajet ... that uses the generic autopilot/route manager system. My one comment with the new route manager is that I've had some variability in the results of building a route. Maybe I'm not understanding the interface correctly, but sometimes my starting airport gets added, even when I'm in the air. Sometimes it gets in there twice. After creating a route, I always need to go in and manually clean up extraneous stuff before I get what I hoped for. (Sorry for using the word always, maybe I should say I feel like I always have to go fix the route manually.) :-P Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 12:48 PM, James Turner wrote: I thought I'd fixed that back at the start of October, soon after the initial commit - Curt complained that h couldn't start a route 'in-air' so I removed the need for departure/destination airports. Ah, I get it - you're specifying a departure airport, but then not activating the route until airborne. Hmm. I'm not sure that's actually a bug. Activating a route starts a leg to the first waypoint ... regardless of wether that's 'behind' you in the route or anything. In real-life I'd activate the route, then select the enroute waypoint I wanted to 'start' from, and 'DTO' on it, to head straight there - that's exactly how I fly departures where ATC vector me, then clear me to a SID waypoint. What do you think would be a sensible course of action, in the situation you describe? Even if I choose not to add the departure airport for in-air route activation, there's no guarantee that the first route waypoint is where you actually want to be going. Conceptually, including the starting point in the route seems like it could always be problematic.The airport location is some random point on the airport grounds (probably the average of the center points of the runways.) Even if you haven't taken off yet, it would be possible in some circumstances to not fly close to the center of the airport on take off. Then you would get routed back to the starting point before you could continue on to the next way point. I think we are just getting lucky when we fly close enough to the center of the airport in most situations for most runways to satisfy the route manager and it clicks on to the next waypoint. The KSFO airport layout is very friendly in this regards, but other airports like DFW and DEN are more sprawling. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
James, this is what I've found too. Perhaps I don't understand the proper setup method, but I tend to clean it up as well. Sometimes I get a FL value, others times the point adds with a zero altitude. (or two dep. airport waypoints, one with each altitude) It may be a result of most times the route manager loads with the departure airport already listed. For the time being configure it to not load a depature airport on opening? Peter On Dec 21, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Curtis Olson wrote: On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 12:43 PM, James Turner zakal...@mac.com wrote: It is not my intention, or expectation, that many aircraft should need to be changed at all. Aircraft that used the old gps or route-manager directly will need changes (eg, the 787, and Concorde INS code, but that's non-functional anyway) but my *intention* was always that most aircraft, whether using the generic autopilot, or a customised XML autopilot, would work exactly as before. With the aircraft I test with, that's what I see - the C172, the Seneca, the B1900 and, to a lesser degree, the 777-200 (though it has some other problems). I guess the problem may be, that all of those aircraft have quite well developed, non-generic autopilots. Aside from the GPS setting true-heading-hold when it shouldn't, what problems are people seeing with heading-hold and nav1-hold? Please let me know the specific aircraft, steps to reproduce, expected behaviour and actual behaviour. I will assume people are testing with latest data/ and FG/SG sources. Hi James, The one aircraft I enjoy flying is the Alphajet ... that uses the generic autopilot/route manager system. My one comment with the new route manager is that I've had some variability in the results of building a route. Maybe I'm not understanding the interface correctly, but sometimes my starting airport gets added, even when I'm in the air. Sometimes it gets in there twice. After creating a route, I always need to go in and manually clean up extraneous stuff before I get what I hoped for. (Sorry for using the word always, maybe I should say I feel like I always have to go fix the route manually.) :-P Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
Hey, could we all agree it's not my fault? :) Erik -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
Erik Hofman wrote: Hey, could we all agree it's not my fault? :) Sorry Erik, You are only guilty of submitting the most number of files in that 36 hour period. :) I guessed wrong. Stewart -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
Hi, Hey, could we all agree it's not my fault? :) Erik Only if you will correct the airport name: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/File:Tu154Innsbruck.png - pretty flat for LOWI ! :-P Cheers HHS __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Autopilot broken, Eric maybe?
Heiko Schulz wrote: Hi, Hey, could we all agree it's not my fault? :) Only if you will correct the airport name: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php/File:Tu154Innsbruck.png - pretty flat for LOWI ! :-P Admittedly I already wondered about it :) But i never thought it would be Schiphol. Anyhow, the filename isn't changed but the corresponding text is. Erik -- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
