Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:01:25 +0930, George wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 23:21 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:30:54 +0200, Buchanan, Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I made an effort to make the HTML as simple as possible so it would print OK, but looking at Print Preview on my browser, ..don't. ..use: http://www.w3.org/Amaya/ or http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/ and http://validator.w3.org/ http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ http://validator.w3.org/checklink/ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
So as Gerard points out , and as I did earlier , it's a case of what we want , screen or paper. I think a tutorial in particular will be more useful printed out. I use all my screen real-estate for FG, and switching between windows to a tutorial is a pain. A couple of futher comments (and yeah, I know I'm about to sound like the newly converted). It would be good to be consistent in terms of style and layout. LaTeX appears to give this for free (assuming we don't mind our docs looking like academic papers ;) I _think_ we can generate HTML for LaTeX. Looks like that is what has been done for the FGShortRef. This would give us both. I really don't want to have to keep two sources up to date. Finally, now I've converted the tutorial to LaTeX, I'm finding it much easier to edit the content, not having to worry about layout. -Stuart ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Buchanan, Stuart wrote: So as Gerard points out , and as I did earlier , it's a case of what we want , screen or paper. I think a tutorial in particular will be more useful printed out. I use all my screen real-estate for FG, and switching between windows to a tutorial is a pain. A couple of futher comments (and yeah, I know I'm about to sound like the newly converted). It would be good to be consistent in terms of style and layout. LaTeX appears to give this for free (assuming we don't mind our docs looking like academic papers ;) I _think_ we can generate HTML for LaTeX. Looks like that is what has been done for the FGShortRef. This would give us both. I really don't want to have to keep two sources up to date. Finally, now I've converted the tutorial to LaTeX, I'm finding it much easier to edit the content, not having to worry about layout. -Stuart Hi Stuart, I use latex2html to convert *.tex docs to html with excellent results, perhaps it may be of use to you ? http://texcatalogue.sarovar.org/entries/latex2html.html Regards Terry ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If several authors produce several tutorials and howtos, several smallish HTML files linked off a central index page gives the widest access to these efforts. Which is presumably the object of the excersize. Hmm, Ok you've convinced me. HTML it is. But I would like the general layout to be consistent between documents and between online and offline documents. I've created a few javascript scripts in the past to would make this easier, if anyone cares I would like to contribute them for this. Erik ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Buchanan, Stuart schrieb: It would be good to be consistent in terms of style and layout. LaTeX appears to give this for free (assuming we don't mind our docs looking like academic papers ;) LaTeX looks only by default like an academic paper. Changing the font from Computer Modern to Times (or perhaps Arial, although that won't be the best fit for our use) makes a huge difference... I _think_ we can generate HTML for LaTeX. Looks like that is what has been done for the FGShortRef. This would give us both. I really don't want to have to keep two sources up to date. Yes that's possible. So we can please both worlds (the print fanatics and the screen freaks) - and Erik can link to both as well. Finally, now I've converted the tutorial to LaTeX, I'm finding it much easier to edit the content, not having to worry about layout. We could (and probably should) create an layout with according macros that pleases us and use it for all manuals, tutorials, etc. pp. At university the little work helped us to write the scripts for all different subjects on the fly (i.e. in the same speed the prof wrote onto the blackboard) CU, Christian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32) iD8DBQFDU7DPlhWtxOxWNFcRAnlNAJ9a2gu7iKSqk+RBVEO/a2bE0HImmgCdFolU 1CEPrU/9dtO0qZd51/WsyM0= =VIwF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Would it be worth adding it to the CVS? I'm quite happy to GFDL it, but one of the images includes a grab from a sectional. If it's a NOAA map and not some Jeppesen proprietary thing, then it is public domain. Moreover, there is some place on the net where one can download the sectionals as a TIFF --- could be some guys' own snapshot of the official distribution, or could be the FAA updated feed... Sorry, I don't recall the details. V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Would it be worth adding it to the CVS? I'm quite happy to GFDL it, but one of the images includes a grab from a sectional. ..precisely how does it include a grab from a sectional? I did a sqve of a jpg on the aeroplanner.com website. A bit naughty, but I couldn't remember the address of avationtoobox.org. Now someone has pointed me back at it I'll re-do the shot. BTW, the naco website explicitly says that the sectionals aren't copyright, so I think we're OK including them in the docs. It might be worth including the VFR terminal chart for San Fransisco either a part of the distribution, or linked from the main website - it certainly would make it easier for new people to navigate around the default scenery. Regards -Stuart ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
I believe that US sectionals are freely redistributable, although you should check properly of course! Take a look at http://aviationtoolbox.org/ - he has all the US sectionals and terminal area charts avaiable for download, I believe legally. Thanks Dave. I knew I had seen full sectionals on the web, but couldn't remember where. Google wasn't much help either. The NACO website explicitly states that the sectionals are not copyrighted, so I think we're OK. I'll re-do the approach diagram using one of the files you pointed me at, and update the tutorial to point directly to the Terminal Area Chart. Maybe we should include the SF area chart in the FG package, or link to it from the FG website? -Stuart -Stuart ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Stuart, I have been making a few changes to the Install and Getting Started manual, with some guidance from Martin Splott. While the Authoritative document format is LaTex, building a pdf is a matter of running one script. I'm not sure which manual these tutorials should be in. - Flight School - Installation and Getting Started. - Or a separate manual. For now I'd suggest adding it to the Flight School as an appendix. Hi George, I think I would tend towards a separate manual for each tutorial. They way it would be easy for someone to print them out to have on one side while flying. Given that you're actively working on the Install and Getting Started Manual, it sounds like I should be consistent. I'll have a look at LaTex and look at a conversion. -Stuart ___ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
I have been making a few changes to the Install and Getting Started manual, with some guidance from Martin Splott. While the Authoritative document format is LaTex, building a pdf is a matter of running one script. I'm not sure which manual these tutorials should be in. - Flight School - Installation and Getting Started. - Or a separate manual. For now I'd suggest adding it to the Flight School as an appendix. I spent the afternoon learning Latex and have now outpu t the tutorial as a PDF, available from http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/tutorial.pdf Are you intending to check the Latex file into CVS, or just the resulting PDF? -Stuart ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Buchanan, Stuart wrote: I have been making a few changes to the Install and Getting Started manual, with some guidance from Martin Splott. While the Authoritative document format is LaTex, building a pdf is a matter of running one script. I'm not sure which manual these tutorials should be in. - Flight School - Installation and Getting Started. - Or a separate manual. For now I'd suggest adding it to the Flight School as an appendix. I spent the afternoon learning Latex and have now outpu t the tutorial as a PDF, available from http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/tutorial.pdf Are you intending to check the Latex file into CVS, or just the resulting PDF? -Stuart Hi, I'm a long time LaTeX user and FGFS lurker and just have to say what an excellent job you have done, and so quickly! More proof that LaTeX is easy to use and produces, fast, beautiful printed documents. Well done Stuart :) (Viewed on a Linux box with GV) Cheers Terry ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 17:18 +0100, Buchanan, Stuart wrote: I have been making a few changes to the Install and Getting Started manual, with some guidance from Martin Splott. While the Authoritative document format is LaTex, building a pdf is a matter of running one script. I'm not sure which manual these tutorials should be in. - Flight School - Installation and Getting Started. - Or a separate manual. For now I'd suggest adding it to the Flight School as an appendix. I spent the afternoon learning Latex and have now outpu t the tutorial as a PDF, available from http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/tutorial.pdf Are you intending to check the Latex file into CVS, or just the resulting PDF? -Stuart The documentation cvs is not really part of FlightGear cvs but a branch called docs. Accessible in a similar manner to FlightGear itself.: (the following line should be one line) cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 login CVS passwd: guest But you check out the docs instead :-) cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 co docs If this is too short or confusing, then I'm sure someone will explain in greater detail. I'm calling it a night, as it's 02:10 here. George Patterson ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:39:24 +0100 (BST), Buchanan, wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Would it be worth adding it to the CVS? I'm quite happy to GFDL it, but one of the images includes a grab from a sectional. ..precisely how does it include a grab from a sectional? I did a sqve of a jpg on the aeroplanner.com website. A bit naughty, but I couldn't remember the address of avationtoobox.org. ..booo, try http://aviationtoolbox.org/ ;o) Now someone has pointed me back at it I'll re-do the shot. BTW, the naco website explicitly says that the sectionals aren't copyright, so I think we're OK including them in the docs. .. ;o) It might be worth including the VFR terminal chart for San Fransisco either a part of the distribution, or linked from the main website - it certainly would make it easier for new people to navigate around the default scenery. Regards -Stuart -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:30:54 +0200, Buchanan, Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I made an effort to make the HTML as simple as possible so it would print OK, but looking at Print Preview on my browser, the images don't paginate properly - some are split over a page-break. Oh well... got a rough anywhere to look at ? what browser is giving you split images? I generally use tables to format things and I dont see any images getting split: http://piments.com/piments/html_chilli-peppers/frontpg.htm This is straight html 4, no css or fancy stuff, I find tables is the simplest way to get things to format tidily and to rescale nicely to different screen sizes . I can scale that page to 20,30,50,80 or 100% and my print preview looks clean in Opera. YMMV. Like any other tool you have to know how to use it to get the results you want. The nice thing is it lets the user size it as he wants according to his eye-sight and/or paper requirements both on screen and paper and does not make any assumptions about the hardware or OS he is running on. Since FS is open-source, cross-platform software it really does make sense to take a more restrictive approach in producing documentation to support it. If several authors produce several tutorials and howtos, several smallish HTML files linked off a central index page gives the widest access to these efforts. Which is presumably the object of the excersize. regards. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 23:21 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:30:54 +0200, Buchanan, Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I made an effort to make the HTML as simple as possible so it would print OK, but looking at Print Preview on my browser, the images don't paginate properly - some are split over a page-break. Oh well... got a rough anywhere to look at ? what browser is giving you split images? I generally use tables to format things and I dont see any images getting split: http://piments.com/piments/html_chilli-peppers/frontpg.htm This is straight html 4, no css or fancy stuff, I find tables is the simplest way to get things to format tidily and to rescale nicely to different screen sizes . I can scale that page to 20,30,50,80 or 100% and my print preview looks clean in Opera. YMMV. Wino, (seeing we don't know what your real name is) Historically and even today, print preview of web pages do occasionally split. Web pages were not intended to be printed. (Can't click on a hyperlink that is on paper) Like any other tool you have to know how to use it to get the results you want. The nice thing is it lets the user size it as he wants according to his eye-sight and/or paper requirements both on screen and paper and does not make any assumptions about the hardware or OS he is running on. No, but the web developer/designer usually does. How many web pages have you seen where the text size is ridiculously small? The font size used for print is generally 10 or 11 points for most audiences. A link I found after goggling. http://desktoppub.about.com/cs/finetypography/ht/type_size.htm (This link is not very authoritative but looks right from when I learnt desktop publishing, many moons ago. Since FS is open-source, cross-platform software it really does make sense to take a more restrictive approach in producing documentation to support it. Agreed but LaTex is not restrictive and doesn't take long to start producing your own document source. I'm happy to look at converting any tutorial to latex. PDFs are the industry standard for print copies. It's some of the viewing software that is broken, not the format. If several authors produce several tutorials and howtos, several smallish HTML files linked off a central index page gives the widest access to these efforts. Which is presumably the object of the excersize. AHGGG. You mean to have several html pages for printing? Where's the value of an index page in that case. A html based index page will not have the page numbers, the page numbers will not be sequential across html pages, etc. Personally, I'd like a hard copy of the manual for Release 1 of flightgear as a tangible milestone. Perhaps a copy autographed by the core FlightGear developers could be auctioned off. A lot of the arguments that are coming up are showing small examples rather than say 109 page documents which the Installation and getting started guide has grown to. I would like a hard copy of the manual for version 1 of Flightgear (when released). Perhaps a copy signed by the core FlightGear developers could be auctioned off. The biggest problem right now is not the document type but the age of the documentation. Last update in most cases is around 2003 to as early as 2001. It should be possible to generate a large print version of flightgear. -- George Patterson Adelaide, Australia ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Le lundi 17 octobre 2005 à 11:01 +0930, George Patterson a écrit : On Sun, 2005-10-16 at 23:21 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:30:54 +0200, Buchanan, Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I made an effort to make the HTML as simple as possible so it would print OK, but looking at Print Preview on my browser, the images don't paginate properly - some are split over a page-break. Oh well... A lot of the arguments that are coming up are showing small examples rather than say 109 page documents which the Installation and getting started guide has grown to. I would like a hard copy of the manual for version 1 of Flightgear (when released). Perhaps a copy signed by the core FlightGear developers could be auctioned off. The biggest problem right now is not the document type but the age of the documentation. Last update in most cases is around 2003 to as early as 2001. It should be possible to generate a large print version of flightgear. -- George Patterson Adelaide, Australia I feel that we are talking about two kind of usage for documents and two way to access the data. On one side some people like to print documents and prefer paper usage. The other side others prefer computer and screen usage, i am on that side. I do not use paper, and under Linux ( i don't know for windows ) pdf documents are unreadable ( an example is JSBSim quartely news letters) with multicolumn and graphics. It is necessary to print it. Html documents are without difficulties, we don't need to print for reading. When i start my professional life in computers (it was a very long time ago) it was said no paper. Could think mainly computer usage and not paper usage. BTW: My sreen format is 1600 * 1280 , with 12 desktop (supposed to be enough for any pdf document) Cheers Gerard ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
I do not use paper, and under Linux ( i don't know for windows ) pdf documents are unreadable ( an example is JSBSim quartely news letters) with multicolumn and graphics. It is necessary to print it. This is the first time I've heard that the JSBSim newsletter is unreadable under Linux. I don't believe this is universally true. Which PDF reader do you use? Jon ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Le dimanche 16 octobre 2005 à 21:15 -0500, Jon Berndt a écrit : I do not use paper, and under Linux ( i don't know for windows ) pdf documents are unreadable ( an example is JSBSim quartely news letters) with multicolumn and graphics. It is necessary to print it. This is the first time I've heard that the JSBSim newsletter is unreadable under Linux. I don't believe this is universally true. Which PDF reader do you use? Jon Oh sorry Jon, that the first exemple i had , it is the same problem with every pdf documents (blender tutorial guide pdf format not html and so on). I have Adobe Reader and an other (mozilla plugin). The difficulties is: we have to choose in between the full page and we cannot read (charactere size) or readable and we have to jump with the sliders (left right / up down). Only one way printing, which make happy every printer and paper suppliers. May be, if the format was Landscape it would better. Gerard ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 04:15:06 +0200, Jon Berndt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not use paper, and under Linux ( i don't know for windows ) pdf documents are unreadable ( an example is JSBSim quartely news letters) with multicolumn and graphics. It is necessary to print it. This is the first time I've heard that the JSBSim newsletter is unreadable under Linux. I don't believe this is universally true. Which PDF reader do you use? Jon The problem with pdf on screen is that the page layout is FIXED like it is on paper. That is why it prints more consistantly , that page layout is cast in stone. If you have a smaller screen or need larger text you have to scroll _horezontally_ to read the document. To all intents and purposes it becomes unreadable. Under the same conditions html reformats to fit. So as Gerard points out , and as I did earlier , it's a case of what we want , screen or paper. Some older people still seem to need to print everything they're going to read. Not that a correctly formatted html document wont print correctly anyway. Now if paper is taken to mean getting a book printed that's another game and probably even the text would need to be presented in a different way if it were for a book. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Le lundi 17 octobre 2005 à 05:05 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 04:15:06 +0200, Jon Berndt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not use paper, and under Linux ( i don't know for windows ) pdf documents are unreadable ( an example is JSBSim quartely news letters) with multicolumn and graphics. It is necessary to print it. This is the first time I've heard that the JSBSim newsletter is unreadable under Linux. I don't believe this is universally true. Which PDF reader do you use? Jon The problem with pdf on screen is that the page layout is FIXED like it is on paper. That is why it prints more consistantly , that page layout is cast in stone. If you have a smaller screen or need larger text you have to scroll _horezontally_ to read the document. To all intents and purposes it becomes unreadable. Under the same conditions html reformats to fit. So as Gerard points out , and as I did earlier , it's a case of what we want , screen or paper. Some older people still seem to need to print everything they're going to read. And some old people (i am) dislike paper :) Not that a correctly formatted html document wont print correctly anyway. Now if paper is taken to mean getting a book printed that's another game and probably even the text would need to be presented in a different way if it were for a book. Well no comments, everything is said and explained. -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Gerard ROBIN wrote: I do not use paper, and under Linux ( i don't know for windows ) pdf documents are unreadable ( an example is JSBSim quartely news letters) with multicolumn and graphics. It is necessary to print it. Er, huh? What problems are you having with PDF documents? They certainly seem readable under linux to me... Andy ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:17:11 -0700, Andy wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gerard ROBIN wrote: I do not use paper, and under Linux ( i don't know for windows ) pdf documents are unreadable ( an example is JSBSim quartely news letters) with multicolumn and graphics. It is necessary to print it. Er, huh? What problems are you having with PDF documents? They certainly seem readable under linux to me... ..I do see _some_ pdf's that tries to sell me Adobe or Wintendo. ;o) ..I _rarely_ see those pdf's not work in _any_ pdf reader. ;o) Try man -k pdf off your cli, xpdf, gv, ggv, kpdf usually works. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Friday 14 Oct 2005 23:50, Buchanan, Stuart wrote: It took a bit longer than I expected, but I've now finished a cross-country tutorial from KRHV to KLVK. Take a look here: http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/tutorial.html The idea is to provide a follow-on from Eric's tutorial covering things like the pattern, mixture, radios, ATIS, ATC. Unfortunately having not encountered these in real life, my knowledge is a bit patchy. I'd really appreciate any comments. Regards, -Stuart Fantastic ! -- Fortune Cookie : I try not to break the rules but merely to test their elasticity. -- Bill Veeck ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
AJ MacLeod wrote: That looks really excellent! Finally we have two cohesive tutorials to point complete flying newbies to that are written with FG in mind (there are a reasonable number of these folk turn up on the IRC channel now and again) Actually, we have three (at least0. In the Docs directory of the base package is a file called fschool_0.0.3.pdf which also described a lot of the basics of flight and FlightGear. Would it be possible to combine these documents somehow to get to one comprehensive manual, preferably in PDF format? Erik ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Erik Hofman wrote: Actually, we have three (at least). Actually, there's four: http://www.flightgear.org/Docs/Tutorials/circuit/ Erik ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Saturday 15 Oct 2005 10:01, Erik Hofman wrote: Erik Hofman wrote: Actually, we have three (at least). Actually, there's four: http://www.flightgear.org/Docs/Tutorials/circuit/ Erik In my opinion, the more tutorials the better. Particularly if they are written by different people, and aimed at different levels of beginners or intermediate pilots. -- Fortune Cookie : To kick or not to kick... -- Somewhere on IRC, inspired by Shakespeare ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:49:52 +0200, Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be possible to combine these documents somehow to get to one comprehensive manual, preferably in PDF format? NOOO! not more pdf! pdf is closed , proprietary difficult to modify, huge and generally bad. it is a pain to use, displays poorly , has no search ability, no hyper linking and especially on non-windows is genreally a PITA/ It has some legitimate value for buisness documents, may be, where making it difficult to change is desirable. It is not desirable here. m2c. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NOOO! not more pdf! pdf is closed , proprietary difficult to modify, huge and generally bad. So what do you suggest as a cross-platform alternative? (And don't mention OpenOffice since it hasn't been ported to many platforms and is way overkill for just reading documents) Erik ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sorry, but you are wrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: pdf is closed , proprietary difficult to modify, huge and generally bad. PDF is an standard, there are even 2 different ISO standards now (one for professional printing and one for archiving it, so that in a few thousand years time people are still able to read what we think that is important...). Difficult to modify is no problem as long as it is easy to create (what it is) and we've got the source (that we also have). It can also be smaller than, e.g. HMTL (and can definitely be smaller than OpenOffice documents). Generally bad is totally wrong. It is generally good... ;) it is a pain to use, displays poorly , has no search ability, no hyper linking and especially on non-windows is genreally a PITA/ In AcrobatReader it displays for me (under Windows) much nicer than e.g. GhostView. And it definitely has search ability and hyperlinking. m2c, please check your sources before you make such strong claims as you did. CU, Christian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32) iD8DBQFDUNTAlhWtxOxWNFcRAm1FAKClmZ81F0twpkzE2f52BKbo4UPD0ACeLGFD VHlqAXg92Py7cyQUCS2OZSQ= =fObN -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Saturday 15 Oct 2005 10:37, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:49:52 +0200, Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be possible to combine these documents somehow to get to one comprehensive manual, preferably in PDF format? NOOO! not more pdf! pdf is good for printing. html is good for reading with a computers browser. Choice is good. -- Fortune Cookie : You're using a keyboard! How quaint! ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Christian Mayer schrieb: ... Generally bad is totally wrong. It is generally good... ;) In AcrobatReader it displays for me (under Windows) much nicer than e.g. GhostView. And it definitely has search ability and hyperlinking. m2c, please check your sources before you make such strong claims as you did. CU, Christian Hi, first of all I want to use the opportunity to thank Stuart Buchanan for his excellent tutorial (and all the other people having done tutorial work). This is an absolute must for a serious flightsim, information have to be on hand and I am thankful for the new possibility to get key-help and help for aircrafts directly in the sim. But what Christian tells in a very absolute way does *not* match my experiences. We exchange very regularly documents in our department, we have 35 recipients(32 Win XP, 3 Apple). For a short time (3 months) we switched over to the *.pdf format because it seemed to be an easier handling (only 1 file!, print-out much better/you can select a range of pages to print out, better formating, etc) but we got a lot a complaints and the people were not satisfied: 1. Acrobat Reader (7.0) is sometimes *very* slow when you have a document of several pages (I can only say thats true on my Athlon 2500 PC with 768 MB RAM and a 128 MB video card) 2. People wanted to *edit* the documents for their own use as they use them for *serious work* and not just for fun. (I learned from that complaint and actually compose my own documents out of the important parts of several others). 3. If you use a program to *search* through several directories of you HD and display the results so that you just click the file-names to display the content it is *much* faster with a browser than Acrobat Reader. (WanyWord) 4. You can create your own table of contents with links to all *.htm/l documents of a directory with ie.( DIR2HTML 1.1.x) 5. If you have different versions of the same document you can easily compare it with (TextDiff) (although the formatting commands are displayed you can see where the changes are and how it has been changed) (All free programs for Win32) Ok, one can see that there are arguments for either Acrobat Reader and HTM/L files. One has to make a decision. I just wanted to add the *very unexpected* results of a practical experiment. Anyway, *.htm/l or *.pdf, the more tutorials, documents and helping-files we'll get, the better it is. Thank you all who are contributing. Regards Georg ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Le samedi 15 octobre 2005 à 11:37 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:49:52 +0200, Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be possible to combine these documents somehow to get to one comprehensive manual, preferably in PDF format? NOOO! not more pdf! pdf is closed , proprietary difficult to modify, huge and generally bad. it is a pain to use, displays poorly , has no search ability, no hyper linking and especially on non-windows is genreally a PITA/ I fully agree with that opinion. We are all using a browser, why don't you use Html ? Cheers -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Georg Vollnhals schrieb: Christian Mayer schrieb: ... Generally bad is totally wrong. It is generally good... ;) But what Christian tells in a very absolute way does *not* match my experiences. I hope you noticed my ;) there... :) 1. Acrobat Reader (7.0) is sometimes *very* slow when you have a document of several pages Just because one program causes trouble doesn't mean that the file format is bad... At least with Acrobat Reader 6.0 I can't remember any problems with big documents (including formulas, tables and graphics) 2. People wanted to *edit* the documents for their own use as they use them for *serious work* and not just for fun. If you want an format that you can edit then PDF isn't suited at all. One of the strengths of PDF is that the layout is preserved (the total opposite is Microsoft Word: there it can be enough to change the printer to destroy the layout...) 3. If you use a program to *search* through several directories of you HD and display the results so that you just click the file-names to display the content it is *much* faster with a browser than Acrobat Reader. (WanyWord) There are free desktop search engines that can do the same with PDFs 4. You can create your own table of contents with links to all *.htm/l documents of a directory with ie.( DIR2HTML 1.1.x) There's no reason why you can't create a TOC with links to PDFs 5. If you have different versions of the same document you can easily compare it with (TextDiff) (although the formatting commands are displayed you can see where the changes are and how it has been changed) (All free programs for Win32) That's a better point. But you can export the Text from an PDF (e.g. with Acrobat Reader) and compare those files. Ok, one can see that there are arguments for either Acrobat Reader and HTM/L files. One has to make a decision. I just wanted to add the *very unexpected* results of a practical experiment. You allways should take the best format for the job. If it has to be editable then PDF isn't a good choice (and also HTML isn't the best). RTF would be a good candidate. And the best could be the new OpenOffice file format. For a tutorial I think end user editability isn't a necessary goal (a good, consistent and readable layout is far more important). So PDF and HTML are well suited. The whole point of my last mail boils down to the first of this. You can't tell other people your opinion and claim that they are facts (and hope they'll believe it). Georg, your mail is much better as you say *why* you feel that way (and I can see your points although I'm not allways sharing them) Anyway, *.htm/l or *.pdf, the more tutorials, documents and helping-files we'll get, the better it is. Thank you all who are contributing. That's definitely true. And I claim that this is fact ;) CU, Christian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32) iD8DBQFDUSLClhWtxOxWNFcRAtCXAKC7p7rNo4AsIDIOwmDpcoK/v3na9wCglHZi I9zrO5tHLr154CBJKAaHyZ4= =q5QD -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On the missed approach - apply full power and when you have a positive rate of climb (to avoid loss of height), retract flaps. Climb out should also be on the dead side, climb to circuit height and turn to rejoin the circuit pattern. Regards Sid. Thanks for the information Sid. I've updated the instructions appropriately. Could you take another look to check I've got it right? Regards, -Stuart ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On the missed approach - apply full power and when you have a positive rate of climb (to avoid loss of height), retract flaps. Also, please rename it from the missed approach to go-around --- missed approach is an IFR term. BTW, go-around is what you'll get on the ' menu as well. V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
The reason to push on with using pdf as one of the preferred formats is that generating a table of contents/index is doable. I have seen web pages cut in half by browsers and you can't guarantee the position of an image when printed. PDFs rock for printing, HTML for reading off screen. If you want a really generic solution, use the Docbook DTD (SGML or XML flavour, as you prefer), and have the PDF/HTML built automatically from the same source. As an added bonus, you'll get RTF, TeX and whatnot other backends free. I made an effort to make the HTML as simple as possible so it would print OK, but looking at Print Preview on my browser, the images don't paginate properly - some are split over a page-break. Oh well... Personally, I found it much easier to write in HTML than to use Latex or whatever and convert to PDF. However, if we decide to standardize on a document format (not a bad idea...) or create a single manual I'd be happy to convert my tutorial. -Stuart ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
That looks really excellent! Finally we have two cohesive tutorials to point complete flying newbies to that are written with FG in mind (there are a reasonable number of these folk turn up on the IRC channel now and again) Thanks. Hope it will be of use. It's difficult to decide who to pitch such a tutorial at, but I figured that group might be big enough and a tutorial would make a difference. Could we have both these tutorials hosted on the FG website? In the meantime, you could add it pretty easily to the FG wiki too - either link to it or just upload the lot. Not sure it's required, but might not be a bad idea. There is now a tar-ball of it here: http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/tutorial.tar.gz Would it be worth adding it to the CVS? I'm quite happy to GFDL it, but one of the images includes a grab from a sectional. Interestingly, the San Franisco VFR Terminal Area Chart I have doesn't include any Copyright statement I can find. Does anyone know any reason why this might be the case ? Are sectionals/terminal area charts not copyrighted? BTW on the back of the chart is a interesting diagram of recommended VFR routes to avoid the Class B/C airspace. It makes for a nice tour of the bay area, taking in most of the custom scenery in the area. Maybe that could be the basis of another tutorial - covering airspace, and VOR navigation. -Stuart I tried adding it to the seed-wiki, but failed ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:03:05 +0100 (BST), Buchanan, wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: That looks really excellent! Finally we have two cohesive tutorials to point complete flying newbies to that are written with FG in mind (there are a reasonable number of these folk turn up on the IRC channel now and again) Thanks. Hope it will be of use. It's difficult to decide who to pitch such a tutorial at, but I figured that group might be big enough and a tutorial would make a difference. Could we have both these tutorials hosted on the FG website? In the meantime, you could add it pretty easily to the FG wiki too - either link to it or just upload the lot. Not sure it's required, but might not be a bad idea. There is now a tar-ball of it here: http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/tutorial.tar.gz Would it be worth adding it to the CVS? I'm quite happy to GFDL it, but one of the images includes a grab from a sectional. ..precisely how does it include a grab from a sectional? Interestingly, the San Franisco VFR Terminal Area Chart I have doesn't include any Copyright statement I can find. Does anyone know any reason why this might be the case ? Are sectionals/terminal area charts not copyrighted? BTW on the back of the chart is a interesting diagram of recommended VFR routes to avoid the Class B/C airspace. It makes for a nice tour of the bay area, taking in most of the custom scenery in the area. Maybe that could be the basis of another tutorial - covering airspace, and VOR navigation. -Stuart I tried adding it to the seed-wiki, but failed ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 00:11:45 +0100, David wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Buchanan, Stuart writes: Would it be worth adding it to the CVS? I'm quite happy to GFDL it, but one of the images includes a grab from a sectional. ..precisely how does it include a grab from a sectional? Interestingly, the San Franisco VFR Terminal Area Chart I have doesn't include any Copyright statement I can find. Does anyone know any reason why this might be the case ? Are sectionals/terminal area charts not copyrighted? I believe that US sectionals are freely redistributable, although you should check properly of course! Take a look at http://aviationtoolbox.org/ - he has all the US sectionals and terminal area charts avaiable for download, I believe legally. Sectionals from almost any other country are very unlikely to have such favourable redistribution terms :-( ..yeah, but Stuart's shot just looks like a grab, if it is, it might still fall under the fair use clause, if it sin't, Stuart may still have shot it GNU Free. ;o) ..often, they just wanna protect their own data, or their own renderings of the same data. So we just chk the paperwork and comply to it all. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Buchanan, Stuart wrote: On the missed approach - apply full power and when you have a positive rate of climb (to avoid loss of height), retract flaps. Climb out should also be on the dead side, climb to circuit height and turn to rejoin the circuit pattern. Regards Sid. Thanks for the information Sid. I've updated the instructions appropriately. Could you take another look to check I've got it right? Regards, -Stuart Looks good, additionally here are some excellent manuals I'd recommend for all pilots, www.asa2fly.com, search on VISUALIZED FLIGHT MANEUVERS, I have the High Wing and Low Wing manuals I picked up at Comair some years ago and I often consult them. They give detailed graphical representations and good brief but comprehensive explanation of exactly how to fly every manuever. I think they will be a handy addition for anyone as they cover Private, Commercial and CFI skills, e.g instantly one can see how the plane behaves, answering questions like why the plane doesn't fly in a straight line, why it turns left or right after takeoff and during the takeoff run. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
I think any $100 hamburgere flight would be best done from airports in the standard scenery set, to save additional download. I'm starting to write one from Reid-Hillview (KRHV) to Livermore (KLVK). I'm hoping to include ATC and auto-pilot instructions so it fits in nicely with Eric's great tutorial. It took a bit longer than I expected, but I've now finished a cross-country tutorial from KRHV to KLVK. Take a look here: http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/tutorial.html The idea is to provide a follow-on from Eric's tutorial covering things like the pattern, mixture, radios, ATIS, ATC. Unfortunately having not encountered these in real life, my knowledge is a bit patchy. I'd really appreciate any comments. Regards, -Stuart ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Friday 14 October 2005 23:50, Buchanan, Stuart wrote: It took a bit longer than I expected, but I've now finished a cross-country tutorial from KRHV to KLVK. That looks really excellent! Finally we have two cohesive tutorials to point complete flying newbies to that are written with FG in mind (there are a reasonable number of these folk turn up on the IRC channel now and again) Since I'm in the same situation as you, i.e. not a real-life pilot, I can't comment too much on the real-world accuracy, but it looks fairly consistent with the flying training manuals I've read as far as I can see. Could we have both these tutorials hosted on the FG website? In the meantime, you could add it pretty easily to the FG wiki too - either link to it or just upload the lot. Cheers, AJ ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Buchanan, Stuart wrote: I think any $100 hamburgere flight would be best done from airports in the standard scenery set, to save additional download. I'm starting to write one from Reid-Hillview (KRHV) to Livermore (KLVK). I'm hoping to include ATC and auto-pilot instructions so it fits in nicely with Eric's great tutorial. It took a bit longer than I expected, but I've now finished a cross-country tutorial from KRHV to KLVK. Take a look here: http://www.nanjika.co.uk/flightgear/tutorial.html The idea is to provide a follow-on from Eric's tutorial covering things like the pattern, mixture, radios, ATIS, ATC. Unfortunately having not encountered these in real life, my knowledge is a bit patchy. I'd really appreciate any comments. Regards, -Stuart On the missed approach - apply full power and when you have a positive rate of climb (to avoid loss of height), retract flaps. Climb out should also be on the dead side, climb to circuit height and turn to rejoin the circuit pattern. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Monday 10 Oct 2005 07:01, Buchanan, Stuart wrote: Jersy to Guernsey is a nice run for a small aircraft. I've been taking advantage of the pull-outs in Pilot magazine (in the UK). Good idea. I think any $100 hamburgere flight would be best done from airports in the standard scenery set, to save additional download. The scenery is another topic, and I agree that the download size is an issue. I am on dial-up, as I can not get ADSL or Cable. I'm starting to write one from Reid-Hillview (KRHV) to Livermore (KLVK). I'm hoping to include ATC and auto-pilot instructions so it fits in nicely with Eric's great tutorial. Excellent, as suggestions and contributions can only improve the support for Flightgear ! Last time I looked on the website for places to fly, all the suggestions seemed to be located in the usa. From a personal perspective, I have little in interest in flying around America. I would rather fly around the small islands in Scotland, or fly at Farnborough. When I sent the original idea of the Jersey - Guernsey route, I hoped that many e-mails would be generated, suggesting better locations. Locations that would be more fun, and give a better sense of reward. Perhaps some Greek Islands, or perhaps Iceland ? Regards, -Stuart -- Fortune Cookie : Q: What do you call a WASP who doesn't work for his father, isn't a lawyer, and believes in social causes? A: A failure. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
David Ginger writes: Last time I looked on the website for places to fly, all the suggestions seemed to be located in the usa. From a personal perspective, I have little in interest in flying around America. I would rather fly around the small islands in Scotland, or fly at Farnborough. When I sent the original idea of the Jersey - Guernsey route, I hoped that many e-mails would be generated, suggesting better locations. Locations that would be more fun, and give a better sense of reward. Perhaps some Greek Islands, or perhaps Iceland ? The flight between two of the Scottish Islands airports is apparently the shortest scheduled flight in the world. (No flames if it's an urban myth please!). I think it's Papa Westray to Westray, EGEP to EGEW, or vica-versa, and both are in FG. Cheers - Dave ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On Monday 10 Oct 2005 21:13, David Luff wrote: David Ginger writes: Last time I looked on the website for places to fly, all the suggestions seemed to be located in the usa. From a personal perspective, I have little in interest in flying around America. I would rather fly around the small islands in Scotland, or fly at Farnborough. When I sent the original idea of the Jersey - Guernsey route, I hoped that many e-mails would be generated, suggesting better locations. Locations that would be more fun, and give a better sense of reward. Perhaps some Greek Islands, or perhaps Iceland ? The flight between two of the Scottish Islands airports is apparently the shortest scheduled flight in the world. (No flames if it's an urban myth please!). I think it's Papa Westray to Westray, EGEP to EGEW, or vica-versa, and both are in FG. Cheers - Dave I believe it's true that the shortest _scheduled_ flight is the Papa Westray - Westray journey. it's scheduled for 2 min but with a tail-wind it's been flown quite a bit quicker;) LeeE ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
What would be nice is several tutorials on flying between two airports, preferably with some visual interest along the way. PC Pilot magazine has a nice regular doing this for Microsoft Flight Simulator. Jersy to Guernsey is a nice run for a small aircraft. This is located off the coast of France, and the flight time is very short. Watch out for the steep hill at the end of the runaways. The airport codes are EGJJ Jersey http://www.jersey-airport.com/ EGJB Guernsey http://www.guernsey-airport.gov.gg/airport_information.htm -- Fortune Cookie : Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
