Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?
Check out http://www.cat-language.com/ BR John Skickat från min iPhone 4 sep 2013 kl. 01:43 skrev Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.com: I've heavily abridged your message David; sorry if I've dropped important context. My words below... On Sep 3, 2013, at 3:04 PM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: Even better if the languages are good for exploration by genetic programming - i.e. easily sliced, spliced, rearranged, mutated. I've only seen this done with two languages. Certainly it's possible in any language with the right semantic chops but so far it seems like we're looking at Lisp (et al) and FORTH. My observation has been that the main quality that yields (ease of recombination? I don't even know what it is for sure) is syntaxlessness. I'd love to know about other languages and qualities of languages that are conducive to this sort of thing, especially if anyone has seen interesting work done with one of the logic languages. ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?
On Sep 3, 2013 8:25 PM, Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.com wrote: It yields a kind of syntaxlessness that's interesting. Our TWB/TE language was mostly syntaxless. Instead, you performed operations on desktop objects that were recorded (like AppleScript, but with an iconic language). You could even record while the program was running. We had a tiny bit of syntax in our predicates, stuff like range and set notation. Can anyone describe Minecraft's syntax and semantics? ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?
I meant to say you could perform and record operations while the program was running. I think people have missed machine language as syntaxless. On Sep 4, 2013 4:17 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: On Sep 3, 2013 8:25 PM, Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.com wrote: It yields a kind of syntaxlessness that's interesting. Our TWB/TE language was mostly syntaxless. Instead, you performed operations on desktop objects that were recorded (like AppleScript, but with an iconic language). You could even record while the program was running. We had a tiny bit of syntax in our predicates, stuff like range and set notation. Can anyone describe Minecraft's syntax and semantics? ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?
On 9/3/13, Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.com wrote: ... On Sep 3, 2013, at 3:04 PM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: Even better if the languages are good for exploration by genetic programming - i.e. easily sliced, spliced, rearranged, mutated. I've only seen this done with two languages. Certainly it's possible in any language with the right semantic chops but so far it seems like we're looking at Lisp (et al) and FORTH. My observation has been that the main quality that yields (ease of recombination? I don't even know what it is for sure) is syntaxlessness. I'd love to know about other languages and qualities of languages that are conducive to this sort of thing, especially if anyone has seen interesting work done with one of the logic languages. There is a (the?) universal logical notation being elucidated right now that seems to me to be very promising for this sort of stuff. It is extremely simple yet very powerful (elegant) and it renders logic, circuits, and prolog-ish automated reasoning in a straightforward manner. The roots of it go back to the later work of Charles Sanders Peirce, and was first written up in the iconoclastic Laws of Form by George Spencer-Brown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_Form Several people have been working with it: http://lawsofform.org/people.html See especially: http://markability.net/ http://www.boundary.org/bi/index.html http://www.lawsofform.org/ http://www.boundarymath.org/ http://wbricken.com/ http://iconicmath.com/ I'm interested in it for three reasons: 1) It reveals interesting aspects of logical thought. 2) It's extremely easy to teach and learn. 3) I suspect it will be ideal for e.g. Gödel Machines. Warm regards, ~Simon -- http://twitter.com/SimonForman My blog: http://firequery.blogspot.com/ Also my blog: http://calroc.blogspot.com/ The history of mankind for the last four centuries is rather like that of an imprisoned sleeper, stirring clumsily and uneasily while the prison that restrains and shelters him catches fire, not waking but incorporating the crackling and warmth of the fire with ancient and incongruous dreams, than like that of a man consciously awake to danger and opportunity. --H. P. Wells, A Short History of the World ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?
John, you're right. I have seen raw binary used as DNA and I left that out. This could be my own prejudice, but it seems like a messy way to do things. I suppose I want to limit what the animal can do by constraining it to some set of safe primitives. Maybe that's a silly thing to worry about, though. If we're going to grow software, I suppose maybe I should expect the process to be as messy as life is:) On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 4:06 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I meant to say you could perform and record operations while the program was running. I think people have missed machine language as syntaxless. On Sep 4, 2013 4:17 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: On Sep 3, 2013 8:25 PM, Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.com wrote: It yields a kind of syntaxlessness that's interesting. Our TWB/TE language was mostly syntaxless. Instead, you performed operations on desktop objects that were recorded (like AppleScript, but with an iconic language). You could even record while the program was running. We had a tiny bit of syntax in our predicates, stuff like range and set notation. Can anyone describe Minecraft's syntax and semantics? ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- CALIFORNIA H U M A N ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
Re: [fonc] Final STEP progress report abandoned?
Life is, in some ways, less messy than binary. At least less fragile. DNA cannot encode absolute offsets, for example. Closer to associative memory. In any case, we want to reach useful solutions quickly. Life doesn't evolve at a scale commensurate with human patience, despite having vastly more parallelism and memory. So we need to design systems more efficient, and perhaps more specialized, than life. On Sep 4, 2013 5:37 PM, Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.com wrote: John, you're right. I have seen raw binary used as DNA and I left that out. This could be my own prejudice, but it seems like a messy way to do things. I suppose I want to limit what the animal can do by constraining it to some set of safe primitives. Maybe that's a silly thing to worry about, though. If we're going to grow software, I suppose maybe I should expect the process to be as messy as life is:) On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 4:06 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I meant to say you could perform and record operations while the program was running. I think people have missed machine language as syntaxless. On Sep 4, 2013 4:17 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: On Sep 3, 2013 8:25 PM, Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.com wrote: It yields a kind of syntaxlessness that's interesting. Our TWB/TE language was mostly syntaxless. Instead, you performed operations on desktop objects that were recorded (like AppleScript, but with an iconic language). You could even record while the program was running. We had a tiny bit of syntax in our predicates, stuff like range and set notation. Can anyone describe Minecraft's syntax and semantics? ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc -- CALIFORNIA H U M A N ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc
