AW: MathML and barcode support for FOP
Sorry to interrupt you all. But I have so concerns using JEuclid for MathML. I'm not sure if I have the permission to post here, but maybe you will excuse my post if so. I am not sure if using JEuclid is the right way to deal with MathML. As far as I understand JEuclid transforms a MathML expression into an image. If this is correct, than I would found this the wrong way in principle. Wouldn't it be nicer if the MathML expression is converted into XSL:FO it self? I am not very in this field, but as far as I understand MathML (pm) this should be the way to go. Or do I completely misinterpret something? Regards Norman Markgraf
Re: AW: MathML and barcode support for FOP
The MathML extension uses JEuclid to convert the MathML to SVG internally so we get quite good quality. I don't think it is possible to create XSL-FO code from MathML because you can't properly place all the elements. Doing that with SVG is a lot better. On 27.07.2005 10:54:45 Norman Markgraf wrote: Sorry to interrupt you all. But I have so concerns using JEuclid for MathML. I'm not sure if I have the permission to post here, but maybe you will excuse my post if so. I am not sure if using JEuclid is the right way to deal with MathML. As far as I understand JEuclid transforms a MathML expression into an image. If this is correct, than I would found this the wrong way in principle. Wouldn't it be nicer if the MathML expression is converted into XSL:FO it self? I am not very in this field, but as far as I understand MathML (pm) this should be the way to go. Or do I completely misinterpret something? Jeremias Maerki
Re: AW: MathML and barcode support for FOP
While we are speaking of that, If I may give my opinion: I agree with Norman that using images to render maths isn't a good solution in the long-term. The fact that it is SVG improves the situation a bit because fonts will be rendered fine, but there are other problems to address: for example it is difficult to align the baseline of an inline-rendered equation with the text's baseline. It also is not possible to break an equation into multiple lines. A native MathML renderer will be necessary to beat TeX in this area. I was thinking of writing one for Fop but I'm missing time and for now I'm in the font subsystem stuff. The work referred by Siarhei Baidun may definitely be interesting. Vincent Jeremias Maerki a écrit : The MathML extension uses JEuclid to convert the MathML to SVG internally so we get quite good quality. I don't think it is possible to create XSL-FO code from MathML because you can't properly place all the elements. Doing that with SVG is a lot better. On 27.07.2005 10:54:45 Norman Markgraf wrote: Sorry to interrupt you all. But I have so concerns using JEuclid for MathML. I'm not sure if I have the permission to post here, but maybe you will excuse my post if so. I am not sure if using JEuclid is the right way to deal with MathML. As far as I understand JEuclid transforms a MathML expression into an image. If this is correct, than I would found this the wrong way in principle. Wouldn't it be nicer if the MathML expression is converted into XSL:FO it self? I am not very in this field, but as far as I understand MathML (pm) this should be the way to go. Or do I completely misinterpret something? Jeremias Maerki
AW: MathML and barcode support for FOP
Thank you, Siarhei, for the explanation of the interrelationship between JEuclid and FOP. In fact that was roughly what I mean by image. As I explained, I am not in the details. The words by Jeremias, that you can not place all element properly, might be the point that sounds the most important to me. Does anybody know if there is an approach like that one Vincent wanted to try, but has not find the time for? You are most likely right, Jeremias, but ... I think the way to convert MathML to XSL:FO is more natural. Maybe here are some people who give this a try. If so, please contact me via private email. Regards, Norman Markgraf
Re: AW: MathML and barcode support for FOP
Please don't work on private channels. You can use the fop-dev mailing list to discuss stuff around MathML as long as there is some relation to FOP. I wasn't aware of the advanced requirements like baseline alignment and such. At any rate, the new FOP has the ideal infrastructure to handle cases like that. You also have to see that the MathML extension was probably never used in production since it was hidden for years inside the examples directory. If you guys have additional needs bring them here, band together. The FOP committers will certainly assist where they can. If bringing in JEuclid into the Apache Software Foundation helps this process I'm glad to help start talks with the original authors of JEuclid and to serve as sponsoring member when it has to go through the Incubator. Still, Norman, converting MathML to XSL-FO is almost certainly not doable but that's not even necessary because as Siarhei Baidun mentioned it is possible to paint the formulae directly to a Graphics2D interface (all inside FOP). The way through SVG is most probably not necessary for output formats like PDF, PostScript and Java2D. On 27.07.2005 13:07:59 Norman Markgraf wrote: Thank you, Siarhei, for the explanation of the interrelationship between JEuclid and FOP. In fact that was roughly what I mean by image. As I explained, I am not in the details. The words by Jeremias, that you can not place all element properly, might be the point that sounds the most important to me. Does anybody know if there is an approach like that one Vincent wanted to try, but has not find the time for? You are most likely right, Jeremias, but ... I think the way to convert MathML to XSL:FO is more natural. Maybe here are some people who give this a try. If so, please contact me via private email. Regards, Norman Markgraf Jeremias Maerki
