Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 21:46:29 -0400 / Fossil SCM user's discussion
 said :

> Another immensely popular tool for team, including open-source dev
> and user teams is slack - https://slack.com/
> HipChat is a alternative - https://hipchat.com/

I am forced to use Slack at work and it's bad, it is very hard to
organize discussion, and their XMPP/IRC gateways are not that good
either.

A mailing list is just better is just better to discuss. Or Usenet, but
please don't force us to use another useless web interface.

Mailing lists have been working for dozens of years, I don't see any
reason to change now to something that is worse.

-- BohwaZ
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

Gitter has an IRC bridge, but gitter's re-editing facility results in
duplicated posts which can be confusing and tiresome.
I agree that we don't want to tie DRH up with constant live chat; it seems
to cost Nenad (Red) too much.
A forum then...
Newlisp has roughly the same number of members as Fossil and they use a
Forum (phpBB, http://www.newlispfanclub.alh.net/forum/index.php)



On 25 June 2016 at 12:37, Fossil SCM user's discussion <
fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org> wrote:

> On 24 June 2016 at 18:46, Fossil SCM user's discussion
>  wrote:
> > Another immensely popular tool for team, including open-source dev and
> user
> > teams is slack - https://slack.com/
> > HipChat is a alternative - https://hipchat.com/
> >
> > Host it yourself Slack-alikes using open-source include
> > http://www.mattermost.org/ and https://www.zulip.org/
> >
> > These of these tools mentioned give plenty of integrations, including to
> > iPhone/Android apps or gateways to email.
> >
>
> If this list was much more active, outside of this single email
> thread, I could understand the desire of something real time
> communication. However, Dr. Hipp seems very busy so he likely wouldn't
> be able to have continuous conversations. Most of those who know
> Fossil/sqlite inner workings well are across the world in different
> time zones, and they're not available all of the time. I'm perfectly
> happy as a user of fossil to write an email, post it and hope someone
> will take the time to respond to the post.
>
> Knowing this mailing list is less than 1000 people, I'm happy to be an
> elite member with such intelligent, now anonymous, people. Whoever you
> are--thank you and let's work on making Fossil great again. ;)
>
> In the end if I were to chose real time communication on an open
> source project, I'd prefer IRC.
>
> By the way, there's stackoverflow.com with a fossil section:
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/fossil
>
> Enjoy the weekend!
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

On 24 June 2016 at 18:46, Fossil SCM user's discussion
 wrote:
> Another immensely popular tool for team, including open-source dev and user
> teams is slack - https://slack.com/
> HipChat is a alternative - https://hipchat.com/
>
> Host it yourself Slack-alikes using open-source include
> http://www.mattermost.org/ and https://www.zulip.org/
>
> These of these tools mentioned give plenty of integrations, including to
> iPhone/Android apps or gateways to email.
>

If this list was much more active, outside of this single email
thread, I could understand the desire of something real time
communication. However, Dr. Hipp seems very busy so he likely wouldn't
be able to have continuous conversations. Most of those who know
Fossil/sqlite inner workings well are across the world in different
time zones, and they're not available all of the time. I'm perfectly
happy as a user of fossil to write an email, post it and hope someone
will take the time to respond to the post.

Knowing this mailing list is less than 1000 people, I'm happy to be an
elite member with such intelligent, now anonymous, people. Whoever you
are--thank you and let's work on making Fossil great again. ;)

In the end if I were to chose real time communication on an open
source project, I'd prefer IRC.

By the way, there's stackoverflow.com with a fossil section:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/fossil

Enjoy the weekend!
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

Oh... If we're offering alternatives, I recently joined
https://gitter.im/red/red and don't completely hate its interface.

On 25 June 2016 at 09:46, Fossil SCM user's discussion <
fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org> wrote:

> Another immensely popular tool for team, including open-source dev and
> user teams is slack - https://slack.com/
> HipChat is a alternative - https://hipchat.com/
>
> Host it yourself Slack-alikes using open-source include
> http://www.mattermost.org/ and https://www.zulip.org/
>
> These of these tools mentioned give plenty of integrations, including to
> iPhone/Android apps or gateways to email.
>
> Gooling for "slack spam' I found
> https://loganix.net/how-we-use-slack-to-beat-down-referral-spammers/. Not
> so much about email, but the guy's business was having faked HTTP-referrers
> (for some reason) and he'd written a slack-bot to purge such data from his
> backends.
>
> - Paul Hammant
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

Another immensely popular tool for team, including open-source dev and user
teams is slack - https://slack.com/
HipChat is a alternative - https://hipchat.com/

Host it yourself Slack-alikes using open-source include
http://www.mattermost.org/ and https://www.zulip.org/

These of these tools mentioned give plenty of integrations, including to
iPhone/Android apps or gateways to email.

Gooling for "slack spam' I found
https://loganix.net/how-we-use-slack-to-beat-down-referral-spammers/. Not
so much about email, but the guy's business was having faked HTTP-referrers
(for some reason) and he'd written a slack-bot to purge such data from his
backends.

- Paul Hammant
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

K,


And IMHO, they can whitelist some of us ... can't they ?


No, I don't think they can.

The limitation is that the Fossil list is run on software (Mailman 
v2.1.14) that doesn't have any of these features that we've been 
imagining (myself included).


At the very least the list would have to be updated to a newer version 
of Mailman to get the ability to replace only the email address in the 
From, leaving the name intact. At least, I think that's what the option 
I read about does.


Beyond that, someone would have to come up with a patch to Mailman to 
implement one or more of the ideas. I've never looked at the source to 
Mailman, but I can't imagine the task would be trivial.


Shal
s...@cheshireeng.com

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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

This change, if not reverted to something more pleasant, is going to kill
this mailing list.
I agree with Andy (at least, I think it was he) who said that not all
opinions are equally weighted; I like to know who's speaking before I
invest time in reading their post.
Spam is a perennial problem facing the whole internet (and even RL with
fliers in your mailbox and under your windscreen wipers, yadda). It's not
Fossil's job to Kill All Spam. We all have and use spam filters. It's just
a part of life. It's one of the unspoken rules of engagement when signing
up to participate online: you will be spammed; you will be trolled; welcome
aboard.

Barry (an almost nobody on this list, weight=$0.02)

On 25 June 2016 at 07:08, Fossil SCM user's discussion <
fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org> wrote:

> No, anonymity doesn't sucks...
> I want anonymity because as I said, people don't want or even can't show
> up there details.
> And IMHO, privacy is something that we would like to have for our safety
> and everyone else safety...
>
> Those who would like to be known, I suggest them to put the appropriate
> inof they may want in the signature.
> No one, not me at least, would be bothered about that...
>
> Only bad conduct should be banned, and I suppose that Fossil have got all
> the information to stop people.
> (IP adress, e-mail, etc.)
>
> PS: Hmmm... So no one is interested about my suggest ?
> (Why don't we go vote for the behavior we do want for this mailing list)
> Have a nice WE, everyone.
>
>
> Best Regards
>
> K.
>
>
> --
> *De :* Fossil SCM user's discussion 
> *À :* fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org
> *Envoyé le :* Vendredi 24 juin 2016 17h43
> *Objet :* Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...
>
> On 6/23/2016 9:11 PM, Fossil SCM user's discussion wrote:
> > Thus said Fossil SCM user's discussion on Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:24:26
> +0200:
> >> the tree-like nature of a thread is now gone (isn't it?)
> > No,  threading  should still  work.  Just  start  a  new thread  with  a
> > different  subject.  Typically  threading  is handled  by  Reference  or
> > In-Reply-To header analysis.
>
> We now have an example of a fresh thread. Anonymity still sucks, but at
> least threading does work.
>
> --
> Ross Berteig  r...@cheshireeng.com
> Cheshire Engineering Corp.  http://www.CheshireEng.com/
> 
> +1 626 303 1602
>
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>
>
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>
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 1:18 AM, Fossil SCM user's discussion
 wrote:
> periodically ?
> Sometimes I do not even read my e-mails...

And sometimes you read only the first line, apparently.

> At least, Fossil knows who are not bot... (Am I a bot ? Seriously?)
> And IMHO, they can whitelist some of us ... can't they ?

As I already wrote, one on topic post on the list could give one a
perpetual pass. Or they will be whitelisted, if you prefer.
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

periodically ?Sometimes I do not even read my e-mails...
At least, Fossil knows who are not bot... (Am I a bot ? Seriously?)And IMHO, 
they can whitelist some of us ... can't they ?


Best Regards

K.

  De : Fossil SCM user's discussion 
 À : Fossil SCM user's discussion  
 Envoyé le : Vendredi 24 juin 2016 18h09
 Objet : Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...
  


What about putting up a system which periodically sends out a request
to list subscribers to confirm they are not a bot? Like, answering a
simple question.

Those who don't pass could be put on hold and stop receiving emails
from the list.

The request could be sent only to subscribers which have never posted
to the list.

Sending one on topic email to the list could serve as a perpetual pass.

Just an idea.

PB
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

No, anonymity doesn't sucks...I want anonymity because as I said, people don't 
want or even can't show up there details.And IMHO, privacy is something that we 
would like to have for our safety and everyone else safety...
Those who would like to be known, I suggest them to put the appropriate inof 
they may want in the signature.No one, not me at least, would be bothered about 
that...
Only bad conduct should be banned, and I suppose that Fossil have got all the 
information to stop people.(IP adress, e-mail, etc.)

PS: Hmmm... So no one is interested about my suggest ?(Why don't we go vote for 
the behavior we do want for this mailing list)Have a nice WE, everyone.

Best Regards

K.

  De : Fossil SCM user's discussion 
 À : fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org 
 Envoyé le : Vendredi 24 juin 2016 17h43
 Objet : Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...
   
On 6/23/2016 9:11 PM, Fossil SCM user's discussion wrote:
> Thus said Fossil SCM user's discussion on Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:24:26 +0200:
>> the tree-like nature of a thread is now gone (isn't it?)
> No,  threading  should still  work.  Just  start  a  new thread  with  a
> different  subject.  Typically  threading  is handled  by  Reference  or
> In-Reply-To header analysis.

We now have an example of a fresh thread. Anonymity still sucks, but at 
least threading does work.

-- 
Ross Berteig                              r...@cheshireeng.com
Cheshire Engineering Corp.          http://www.CheshireEng.com/
+1 626 303 1602
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

This is what I've said ... (just show names if people do want that)
To block the bot isn't it easy to just say to Google, etc. and the mailman 
admin of the mailman website that is used by Fossil that there is a bot ?I'm 
quite sure that they may help.

 
Best Regards

K.

  De : Fossil SCM user's discussion 
 À : fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org 
 Envoyé le : Vendredi 24 juin 2016 7h54
 Objet : Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...
   

Yes just remove the email address but not the name, and problem solved
in a better way until we find a solution to block this bot.

Cheers,

-- bohwaz
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

What about putting up a system which periodically sends out a request
to list subscribers to confirm they are not a bot? Like, answering a
simple question.

Those who don't pass could be put on hold and stop receiving emails
from the list.

The request could be sent only to subscribers which have never posted
to the list.

Sending one on topic email to the list could serve as a perpetual pass.

Just an idea.

PB
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

On 6/23/2016 9:11 PM, Fossil SCM user's discussion wrote:

Thus said Fossil SCM user's discussion on Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:24:26 +0200:

the tree-like nature of a thread is now gone (isn't it?)

No,  threading  should still  work.  Just  start  a  new thread  with  a
different  subject.  Typically  threading  is handled  by  Reference  or
In-Reply-To header analysis.


We now have an example of a fresh thread. Anonymity still sucks, but at 
least threading does work.


--
Ross Berteig   r...@cheshireeng.com
Cheshire Engineering Corp.   http://www.CheshireEng.com/
+1 626 303 1602
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

On 6/23/2016 11:22 PM, Fossil SCM user's discussion wrote:


I didn't write the MLM (It's "mailman" for what that's worth).  I
didn't even install it. ...

Do you have patches for us?
   
Alas, no. I'm not familiar with mailman or with Python. A glance at the 
mailman docs suggests that setting the from_is_list option to Munge From 
might be a way to replace the email address without losing the display 
part of the From. It is said to be less drastic than anonymous_list. 
Applies to Mailman 2.1.16 or newer.


That doesn't help us track down the bot member, but at least it should 
have less impact on discussions.


Shal

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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

Yes just remove the email address but not the name, and problem solved
in a better way until we find a solution to block this bot.

Cheers,

-- bohwaz
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[fossil-users] PHP Composer support for Fossil

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

To all the PHP developers who use Fossil, here is something that might
be useful to you: support for Fossil repositories in Composer.

I personally don't like Composer: it is intrusive, it might run shell
scripts on package install, its packages are not signed and can not be
trusted, it is quite slow and adds more complexity and magic on top of
things.

But when you have to use it well you want to be able to include your
favorite Fossil repositories. And that's what I coded last week.

You can find the patched version of Composer here:
https://github.com/bohwaz/composer/tree/fossil

And the pull request that will hopefully be merged in the main Composer
is here: https://github.com/composer/composer/pull/5467

This is part of my ongoing effort to see more developer tools support
Fossil, the last one was a SublimeText plugin to see realtime diff
against current checkout in the editor[1], and I will now look at other
stuff that need Fossil support.

Please note that for your remote repository to be recognized by Composer
it has to be on DNS that begins with "fossil." or the URL has to begin
with "/fossil/" (or it has to be on ChiselApp). There is no such
restriction on local repository checkouts, as long as they contain
the .fslckout or _FOSSIL_ file.

This is because Composer has only one "vcs" repository type, and not a
"git" or "fossil" or "hg" repository type, so it has to magically
detect what kind of repo it is, and for remote repositories there is
not a lot of ways to do that.

I hope this will be useful.

Cheers,

-- bohwaz

[1] https://github.com/bradsokol/VcsGutter/pull/36
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 2:16 AM, Fossil SCM user's discussion
 wrote:
>
> The trick is to figure out how to put a short nonce in each outbound subject
> line. Maybe just member serial number, but something unique to the
> recipient.

I didn't write the MLM (It's "mailman" for what that's worth).  I
didn't even install it. I don't know much about it.  It seems to be
written in Python and consists of lots of little scripts all scattered
hither and yon across the filesystem.  Probably there is some way to
modify the code to insert unique identifiers on each subject line, and
then track those back to a receipient.  But I don't know how to do
that.

Do you have patches for us?
-- 
D. Richard Hipp
d...@sqlite.org
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Re: [fossil-users] More reply spam...

[Fossil SCM user's discussion]

Dr. H.

> ... the bot's reply uses In-Reply-To and duplicates the subject line
> from a prior legitimate email.

There's your hook: the subject line.

The trick is to figure out how to put a short nonce in each outbound 
subject line. Maybe just member serial number, but something unique to 
the recipient.


519 members is only three characters, two if you base-26 it.

I suppose that might play havoc with email interfaces that thread by 
subject line.


Shal

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