Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: Any programmer worth hiring should find it relatively easy to switch to another language. Or and least become proficient in it in a relative short period of time. The basic principles apply to all languages, it's just the tool-chain and syntax that differs. I certainly agree, but that is a very hard thing to prove to those who hold the purse strings, who tend not to be the technical types. Unfortunately, the term buzzword compliant is all too real. They know the terms used in the industry, and Pascal doesn't tend to come up that often, unlike C or Java or any of the numerous scripting/interpreted languages (Ruby, Perl, Python, etc.). I don't claim to be a good programmer in any particular language, but having used several over my lifetime, I'm familiar with where the similarities and differences lie. Some programmers can't seem to grasp multiple languages effectively, similar to how some people have trouble learning a second (or more) speaking language, but like you say, the better ones have no trouble with it. Jeff. -- I haven't smoked for 3 years, 2 months and 2 days, saving $5,217.57 and not smoking 34,783.85 cigarettes. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Vinzent H?fler jellyfish.softw...@gmx.net wrote: Graeme Geldenhuys graemeg.li...@gmail.com: Any programmer worth hiring should find it relatively easy to switch to another language. Or and least become proficient in it in a relative short period of time. The basic principles apply to all languages, it's just the tool-chain and syntax that differs. Yes and no. The mindsets of the languages may differ. Try talking about typing with a C-programmer and with an Ada-programmer and you'll see what I mean. That's why the question should not be: Which language do you know?, but rather What other languages do you know? It tells me more about the mindset of the programmer than any previous 10-years experience with $LANGUAGE. Good point there. Anyone who only knows one language is likely to be unable to adapt even to the changes in that particular language. For us who have moved between languages, it is more natural to adapt. Don't learn a language; learn to program. Big difference. I think C and Java are particularly bad choices to teach programming, and learning just the one that they use in the industry only makes you narrow-minded and limited. /Ingemar ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Graeme Geldenhuys graemeg.li...@gmail.com: Any programmer worth hiring should find it relatively easy to switch to another language. Or and least become proficient in it in a relative short period of time. The basic principles apply to all languages, it's just the tool-chain and syntax that differs. Yes and no. The mindsets of the languages may differ. Try talking about typing with a C-programmer and with an Ada-programmer and you'll see what I mean. That's why the question should not be: Which language do you know?, but rather What other languages do you know? It tells me more about the mindset of the programmer than any previous 10-years experience with $LANGUAGE. That's why here Pascal-programmers generally have a better reputation than C-zealots. In a land where pointers and dynamic memory allocation are (mostly) forbidden, C doesn't get you very far. :) Vinzent. -- Neu: GMX DSL bis 50.000 kBit/s und 200,- Euro Startguthaben! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
2009/10/17 Vinzent Höfler jellyfish.softw...@gmx.net: Graeme Geldenhuys graemeg.li...@gmail.com: Any programmer worth hiring should find it relatively easy to switch to another language. Or and least become proficient in it in a relative short period of time. The basic principles apply to all languages, it's just the tool-chain and syntax that differs. Yes and no. The mindsets of the languages may differ. Try talking about typing with a C-programmer and with an Ada-programmer and you'll see what I mean. That's why the question should not be: Which language do you know?, but rather What other languages do you know? It tells me more about the mindset of the programmer than any previous 10-years experience with $LANGUAGE. That's why here Pascal-programmers generally have a better reputation than C-zealots. In a land where pointers and dynamic memory allocation are (mostly) forbidden, C doesn't get you very far. :) So, moving from C to Pascal, the programmer just need to learn these techniques, which really doesn't amount to much for an experienced programmer. I think Graeme's point was that if you have a good grasp of software design and programming techniques, you can write good software in whatever language you choose. I have seen this in practice, so I agree to an extent. Obviously the programming paradigm of the language you choose will have an influence, so the old saying of choosing the right tool holds. Henry ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
On 17/10/2009, Vinzent Hoefler jellyfish.softw...@gmx.net wrote: Absolutely. But there's also the catch: With people only knowing C where should this knowledge come from? Documentation. I have been programming solely in Object Pascal for the last 9 years. I dab in Java every now and again (but not for any production software). I also read a lot of C/C++ code which I rewrite into Object Pascal for whatever reason. So just like me being able to read and understand languages I don't earn a living in, so should C,C++,Java,C# etc developers be able to read and understand Object Pascal. A quick study of some language reference docs and a few examples should be all you need to get started. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
A quick study of some language reference docs and a few examples should be all you need to get started. The general rules are easy to learn. But to be productive you also need to know about environments (IDE etc.), available libraries and their usage (which already differ between Delphi and Lazarus), bugs (and their workarounds) and OS dependencies and maybe even need to have lots of own code which you can reuse. So only getting the basics of a language is not enough IMO. And then it *does* matter whether you are used to program in a certain language (on a certain OS) or not. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Graeme Geldenhuys graemeg.li...@gmail.com: I have been programming solely in Object Pascal for the last 9 years. I dab in Java every now and again (but not for any production software). I also read a lot of C/C++ code which I rewrite into Object Pascal for whatever reason. So just like me being able to read and understand languages I don't earn a living in, so should C,C++,Java,C# etc developers be able to read and understand Object Pascal. They do (sometimes at least). Still they write it as they would do in C. A quick study of some language reference docs and a few examples should be all you need to get started. A quick study of the language reference doesn't tell you why types suddenly are important. Why visibility isn't global anymore. Why modules are compilation units and not include files etc. pp. Those ideas can be totally new to a C-programmer. - And then they start moaning about the awkward syntax of begin and end... ;) Or, as the old saying is: One can write Fortran in any language. Vinzent. -- Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3.5 - sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/chbrowser ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
章宏九 wrote:
I don't agree with the idea that BEGIN...END determines the failure
of Pascal, as syntax completion is for that. Both BEGIN...END and
{...} are finished in the same time if they were done by computer.
On the contrary, it is part of the way of Pascal being elegant.
Its very amusing to me when I meet people who are also developers and tell them
I use object pascal and they look at me like I just told them I was using punch
cards.
I just tell them...
ObjectPascal: Strong like C, Easy like VB.
--
Warm Regards,
Lee
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Lee Jenkins l...@datatrakpos.com wrote:
I don't agree with the idea that BEGIN...END determines the failure
of Pascal, as syntax completion is for that. Both BEGIN...END and
{...} are finished in the same time if they were done by computer.
On the contrary, it is part of the way of Pascal being elegant.
Its very amusing to me when I meet people who are also developers and tell them
I use object pascal and they look at me like I just told them I was using punch
cards.
I just tell them...
ObjectPascal: Strong like C, Easy like VB.
--
Warm Regards,
Lee
That blank look in the eyes of the C crowd is so strange. Lots and lots
of people shy away from C/C++/etc since it is so obviously bad, but they
don't know about Pascal so they go to slow scripting languages. They
sure are happpier there than with C, but Pascal would be so much better
in many cases.
I usually don't say that I use Pascal, I say that I use FPC. Then they
don't understandand what that is and think they missed something. And
they sure have.
FPC: Faster to compiler, faster to run, faster to write, faster to
debug... We should print T-shirts with messages like that.
/Ingemar
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
On Friday 16 October 2009 06:40:20 am Mark Emerson wrote:
On Friday 16 October 2009 06:04:17 am Ingemar Ragnemalm wrote:
Lee Jenkins l...@datatrakpos.com wrote:
I don't agree with the idea that BEGIN...END determines the failure
of Pascal, as syntax completion is for that. Both BEGIN...END and
{...} are finished in the same time if they were done by computer.
On the contrary, it is part of the way of Pascal being elegant.
Its very amusing to me when I meet people who are also developers and
tell them I use object pascal and they look at me like I just told them
I was using punch cards.
I just tell them...
ObjectPascal: Strong like C, Easy like VB.
--
Warm Regards,
Lee
That blank look in the eyes of the C crowd is so strange. Lots and lots
of people shy away from C/C++/etc since it is so obviously bad, but they
don't know about Pascal so they go to slow scripting languages. They
sure are happpier there than with C, but Pascal would be so much better
in many cases.
I usually don't say that I use Pascal, I say that I use FPC. Then they
don't understandand what that is and think they missed something. And
they sure have.
FPC: Faster to compiler, faster to run, faster to write, faster to
debug... We should print T-shirts with messages like that.
/Ingemar
But you guys all seem to be forgetting what I wrote near the beginning of
this thread, Pascal is merely a TEACHING language, which is why we have C.
:)
Most people aren't interested in truth (e.g. that Pascal is a vastly
superior language in almost every respect). They are instead interested in
what is popular, politically correct, and has been artfully propagandized
into their gullible, small minds from a source they believe to be an
authority (e.g. REAL programmers don't use Pascal).
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed,
second it is violently opposed, and
third, it is accepted as self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Getting small-minded people to wake up on almost any topic, from
programming languages to global politics, is the stuff of revolution. And
that is the BEGINing and the END.
Mark Emerson
Correction... I should have said (e.g. that *the FPC implemention of* Pascal
is a vastly superior language in almost every respect). Sorry.
Mark Emerson
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Mark Emerson wrote: Most people aren't interested in truth (e.g. that Pascal is a vastly superior language in almost every respect). They are instead interested in what is popular, politically correct, and has been artfully propagandized into their gullible, small minds from a source they believe to be an authority (e.g. REAL programmers don't use Pascal). Its also a manpower issue, and the number one reason I make my living writing C nowadays rather than Pascal. You can post an ad for a C programmer and get 1,000 applicants, if you post an ad for a Pascal programmer you might get 5, at least where I live. While I have argued that those 5 are probably better programmers than most of the 1,000, those that do the hiring don't care. They worry that if one guy gets hits by a bus, they won't be able to find anyone to replace him. That's also why I don't do much programming in Forth anymore (although I am working on one project with it as I type). Jeff. -- I haven't smoked for 3 years, 1 month and 4 weeks, saving $5,203.99 and not smoking 34,693.30 cigarettes. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
You can post an ad for a C programmer and get 1,000 applicants, if you post an ad for a Pascal programmer you might get 5, at least where I live. Yes, that maybe true. But how has all this started? As far as I know, C was not that popular in past (at least not on Windows). Instead (Turbo) Pascal was a widely used language. Suddenly this turned. May have come from Linux, where C was standard. I don't know. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
If memory serves... Microsoft for first few version of DOS used assembler. This proved expensive for Microsoft as the number of people willing to program in intel assembler was quite limited. Microsoft kept hearing about this C programming language which students at MS were talking about. It was essentially free and the number of people willing to program was high, and their cost (because they were students) was low. Microsoft converted to C. The reasons that C was popular was quite simple. It was free to universities and colleges so professors did not have to pay compiler licenses to IBM, Xerox, Control Data, etc. This made it quite popular with faculty. C requires little or no discipline to program in. So the typical zit faced 18 year old socially outcast student loved it as well. The perfect eco-system :) So like many things that originate from US (but not all) it was the law of the cheapest solution. So today we have C, C++, and Java (a toilet trained version of C++) to use. /Step_off_soap_box On 2009-10-16, at 12:58 PM, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: You can post an ad for a C programmer and get 1,000 applicants, if you post an ad for a Pascal programmer you might get 5, at least where I live. Yes, that maybe true. But how has all this started? As far as I know, C was not that popular in past (at least not on Windows). Instead (Turbo) Pascal was a widely used language. Suddenly this turned. May have come from Linux, where C was standard. I don't know. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
In our previous episode, J?rgen Hestermann said: You can post an ad for a C programmer and get 1,000 applicants, if you post an ad for a Pascal programmer you might get 5, at least where I live. Yes, that maybe true. But how has all this started? As far as I know, C was not that popular in past (at least not on Windows). Instead (Turbo) Pascal was a widely used language. Suddenly this turned. May have come from Linux, where C was standard. I don't know. As far as I saw it, it was simple: - C was used in IT, specially in America. - Pascal was used in engineering and science, specially in Europe. Engineering stopped programming by hand, and moved to Matlab and more specialized tools. Moreover, there was a consolidation in IT, and many of the surviving companies were American, with a C/C++ legacy. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
2009/10/16 Marco van de Voort mar...@stack.nl: In our previous episode, Jürgen Hestermann said: You can post an ad for a C programmer and get 1,000 applicants, if you post an ad for a Pascal programmer you might get 5, at least where I live. Yes, that maybe true. But how has all this started? As far as I know, C was not that popular in past (at least not on Windows). Instead (Turbo) Pascal was a widely used language. Suddenly this turned. May have come from Linux, where C was standard. I don't know. As far as I saw it, it was simple: - C was used in IT, specially in America. - Pascal was used in engineering and science, specially in Europe. Engineering stopped programming by hand, and moved to Matlab and more specialized tools. Moreover, there was a consolidation in IT, and many of the surviving companies were American, with a C/C++ legacy. The thing that cuts it for me, at least, is that in linux, if you need to hack the kernel, drivers, bootloader, or even just use anything in /dev, it's a lot easier to use c. Also, it targets a greater number of architectures. We've made the mistake of writing code in pascal that we later needed to port, but had to re-write. It's come a long way, though, and armel port seems to be quite usable nowadays. Henry ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Jürgen Hestermann juergen.hesterm...@gmx.de: You can post an ad for a C programmer and get 1,000 applicants, if you post an ad for a Pascal programmer you might get 5, at least where I live. Yes, and guess what: Odds are that there are more than 5 good ones out of the 1000 C-programmers than a single good one out of the 5 Pascal-programmers. Yes, that maybe true. But how has all this started? As far as I know, C was not that popular in past (at least not on Windows). Instead (Turbo) Pascal was a widely used language. Suddenly this turned. May have come from Linux, where C was standard. I don't know. It has never changed. It always has been that way. Same goes for any programmming language which claims to be better than C. You know what: Being worse than C would be quite an accomplishment. So the real choice is not: C or Pascal, but C or any language. Statistically that means half of the people choose C - and the remaining half chooses a language out of thousands of others. Vinzent. -- Neu: GMX DSL bis 50.000 kBit/s und 200,- Euro Startguthaben! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
How about creating a Holy War page at the freepascal wiki and moving all notes from this thread there? The page can be become a good source of arguments in all kind of Pascal vs C (or any other language) battles :) As well as good historical notes about pascal language. thanks, dmitry ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
2009/10/16 Jeff Wormsley dawor...@comcast.net: Its also a manpower issue, and the number one reason I make my living writing C nowadays rather than Pascal. You can post an ad for a C programmer and get 1,000 applicants, if you post an ad for a Pascal Any programmer worth hiring should find it relatively easy to switch to another language. Or and least become proficient in it in a relative short period of time. The basic principles apply to all languages, it's just the tool-chain and syntax that differs. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Hmm, currently I am also learning Oberon.
No any language requires an IDE. I use vim. Others might use emacs.
These are enough. What we need is a simple editor (if you like, GNU
nano or simply cat 1.pas is okay) and a compiler. They can make
the world, although not that efficiently.
Not the best always win. It is the truth. About why Pascal lost the
war (In the accent of some people. I highly doubt it.) is complex.
IMHO, on the hand, the Bell Lab wrote Unix in C and C was then
binded to the OS. On the other hand, Mr. Wirth created a lot of new
languages in the following years: Pascal(1970), Modula(1975),
Modula-2(1979), Oberon(1987), Oberon-2(1991), etc. The style of all
the following languages differ a lot from that of Pascal, while Modula
and Oberon differ relatively little, which makes Modula and Oberon a
little hard to be spread.
I don't agree with the idea that BEGIN...END determines the failure
of Pascal, as syntax completion is for that. Both BEGIN...END and
{...} are finished in the same time if they were done by computer.
On the contrary, it is part of the way of Pascal being elegant.
2009/10/13 Gustavo Enrique Jimenez gejime...@gmail.com:
2009/10/12 Rainer Stratmann rainerstratm...@t-online.de:
Am Montag, 12. Oktober 2009 16:21 schrieb Gustavo Enrique Jimenez:
2009/10/12 Rainer Stratmann rainerstratm...@t-online.de:
Am Montag, 12. Oktober 2009 11:02 schrieb Jürgen Hestermann:
Remember, Pascal is merely a TEACHING language, unsuitable for
commercial software development, which is why we have C. :)
And why should that be the case? What are the outstanding feature of C
that make it so supperiour? It's illogical and hard to maintain syntax?
Or is it just that it was available for free on all unix systems?
Yes, it is available everywhere.
And it is easier to copy unix code then.
Remember that it is still not easy to come to freepascal.
You have to configure a debian testing system and apt-get lazarus and so
on... Nearly nowhere the lazarus package is preinstalled.
You don't need Debian Testing. My system is Debian Stable (i386) since
2001/2002. Never have had a serious problem installing
Lazarus/Freepascal.
How do you install Lazarus/Freepascal with apt or else?
I am a friend of userfriendly software...
Download fpc-2.2.4-3.i386.deb.tar and lazarus_0.9.28-0.i386.deb.tar
tar -xf *.tar
dpkg -i *.deb - as root
Gustavo
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Remember, Pascal is merely a TEACHING language, unsuitable for commercial software development, which is why we have C. :) And why should that be the case? What are the outstanding feature of C that make it so supperiour? It's illogical and hard to maintain syntax? Or is it just that it was available for free on all unix systems? ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Am Montag, 12. Oktober 2009 11:02 schrieb Jürgen Hestermann: Remember, Pascal is merely a TEACHING language, unsuitable for commercial software development, which is why we have C. :) And why should that be the case? What are the outstanding feature of C that make it so supperiour? It's illogical and hard to maintain syntax? Or is it just that it was available for free on all unix systems? Yes, it is available everywhere. And it is easier to copy unix code then. Remember that it is still not easy to come to freepascal. You have to configure a debian testing system and apt-get lazarus and so on... Nearly nowhere the lazarus package is preinstalled. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Remember, Pascal is merely a TEACHING language, unsuitable for commercial software development, which is why we have C. :) That's what I'm going to change. I've told my friends and collegemates about Pascal superiority (suitable for any programming needs, GUI, WebApps, Server, etc.) and they don't know about it at all because what they know is what their teachers or lecturers say, (without any further research, of course), and becomes a doctrine that makes Pascal look bad in their eyes. Yes, it is available everywhere. And it is easier to copy unix code then. And harder to port it to Windows without Unix (POSIX?) environment emulation (including headers, etc.) You have to configure a debian testing system and apt-get lazarus and so on... you don't need lazarus just to use fpc, and I don't need that debian testing system on my kubuntu. Nearly nowhere the lazarus package is preinstalled. other popular languages are often don't come preinstalled as well. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Who-said-Pascal-isn%27t-popular-tp25848247p25853217.html Sent from the Free Pascal - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Am Montag, 12. Oktober 2009 12:05 schrieb leledumbo: you don't need lazarus just to use fpc, and I don't need that debian testing system on my kubuntu. Which editor do you use? ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Zitat von Rainer Stratmann rainerstratm...@t-online.de: Am Montag, 12. Oktober 2009 11:02 schrieb Jürgen Hestermann: Remember, Pascal is merely a TEACHING language, unsuitable for commercial software development, which is why we have C. :) And why should that be the case? What are the outstanding feature of C that make it so supperiour? It's illogical and hard to maintain syntax? Or is it just that it was available for free on all unix systems? Yes, it is available everywhere. And it is easier to copy unix code then. Remember that it is still not easy to come to freepascal. You have to configure a debian testing system and apt-get lazarus and so on... Nearly nowhere the lazarus package is preinstalled. Standard user distributions do not install any development software. This is how linux distros work and is the same for every devel software, not only lazarus. Some distros allow to create your own custom install CD/DVD. This is used for network installs or for pools. Maybe it is possible write a linux installer, which analyzes your system and downloads and installs all needed packages. Mattias ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
2009/10/12 Rainer Stratmann rainerstratm...@t-online.de: Which editor do you use? I'm not the one you replied to, but I can answer based on my experience. I never use APT for FPC or Lazarus because they update packages to slowly. I work directly from the Git mirror repositories. * If I'm at work or home, I use Lazarus IDE. * If I remote access another PC, I use mcedit (built-in Midnight Commander's editor) or Free Pascal's Text IDE or sometimes even gEdit. * When in a pinch, I will use vi (but then I am seriously disparate). -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Yes, it is available everywhere. And it is easier to copy unix code then. Remember that it is still not easy to come to freepascal. You have to configure a debian testing system and apt-get lazarus and so on... Nearly nowhere the lazarus package is preinstalled. Yes, these are the reasons for having C in the first place. But it is not because of the beauty (stict logic) and the features of the language. Just the opposite: C is popular *even though* it is an awful concept. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
In our previous episode, Rainer Stratmann said: Remember, Pascal is merely a TEACHING language, unsuitable for commercial software development, which is why we have C. :) And why should that be the case? What are the outstanding feature of C that make it so supperiour? It's illogical and hard to maintain syntax? Or is it just that it was available for free on all unix systems? Yes, it is available everywhere. Try compiling some Unix C code on Windows. Give me Free Pascal any time :-) ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
2009/10/12 Marco van de Voort mar...@stack.nl: Yes, it is available everywhere. Try compiling some Unix C code on Windows. Give me Free Pascal any time :-) +1 ...and Try compiling some Unix C code on Unix/Linux/etc. I always battle. Give me Free Pascal too! :-) PS: Wow, did this message thread take a turn. I was simply impressed by the unknown to me amount of Pascal compilers over the years. I only knew about Turbo Pascal and Virtual Pascal for OS/2, in my younger years at school. -- Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
C is popular *even though* it is an awful concept. It is like the video cassettes. Betamax and Video2000 were the better quality, but VHS was the most popular cassette. Yes, sadly this is true (same with Microsoft pressing one awfull OS after the other into the market). Not always the best wins. Good marketing is important. The mass does *not* look behind the scene but follows what others do or what the marketing tells them. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
2009/10/12 Rainer Stratmann rainerstratm...@t-online.de: Am Montag, 12. Oktober 2009 11:02 schrieb Jürgen Hestermann: Remember, Pascal is merely a TEACHING language, unsuitable for commercial software development, which is why we have C. :) And why should that be the case? What are the outstanding feature of C that make it so supperiour? It's illogical and hard to maintain syntax? Or is it just that it was available for free on all unix systems? Yes, it is available everywhere. And it is easier to copy unix code then. Remember that it is still not easy to come to freepascal. You have to configure a debian testing system and apt-get lazarus and so on... Nearly nowhere the lazarus package is preinstalled. You don't need Debian Testing. My system is Debian Stable (i386) since 2001/2002. Never have had a serious problem installing Lazarus/Freepascal. Gustavo ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Am Montag, 12. Oktober 2009 16:21 schrieb Gustavo Enrique Jimenez: 2009/10/12 Rainer Stratmann rainerstratm...@t-online.de: Am Montag, 12. Oktober 2009 11:02 schrieb Jürgen Hestermann: Remember, Pascal is merely a TEACHING language, unsuitable for commercial software development, which is why we have C. :) And why should that be the case? What are the outstanding feature of C that make it so supperiour? It's illogical and hard to maintain syntax? Or is it just that it was available for free on all unix systems? Yes, it is available everywhere. And it is easier to copy unix code then. Remember that it is still not easy to come to freepascal. You have to configure a debian testing system and apt-get lazarus and so on... Nearly nowhere the lazarus package is preinstalled. You don't need Debian Testing. My system is Debian Stable (i386) since 2001/2002. Never have had a serious problem installing Lazarus/Freepascal. How do you install Lazarus/Freepascal with apt or else? I am a friend of userfriendly software... ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Jürgen Hestermann juergen.hesterm...@gmx.de: And why should that be the case? What are the outstanding feature of C that make it so supperiour? It's illogical and hard to maintain syntax? Its Compile anything, crash everywhere. interface. :P Vinzent. -- Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3.5 - sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/chbrowser ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
2009/10/12 Rainer Stratmann rainerstratm...@t-online.de: Am Montag, 12. Oktober 2009 16:21 schrieb Gustavo Enrique Jimenez: 2009/10/12 Rainer Stratmann rainerstratm...@t-online.de: Am Montag, 12. Oktober 2009 11:02 schrieb Jürgen Hestermann: Remember, Pascal is merely a TEACHING language, unsuitable for commercial software development, which is why we have C. :) And why should that be the case? What are the outstanding feature of C that make it so supperiour? It's illogical and hard to maintain syntax? Or is it just that it was available for free on all unix systems? Yes, it is available everywhere. And it is easier to copy unix code then. Remember that it is still not easy to come to freepascal. You have to configure a debian testing system and apt-get lazarus and so on... Nearly nowhere the lazarus package is preinstalled. You don't need Debian Testing. My system is Debian Stable (i386) since 2001/2002. Never have had a serious problem installing Lazarus/Freepascal. How do you install Lazarus/Freepascal with apt or else? I am a friend of userfriendly software... Download fpc-2.2.4-3.i386.deb.tar and lazarus_0.9.28-0.i386.deb.tar tar -xf *.tar dpkg -i *.deb - as root Gustavo ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
At 03:25 PM 10/11/2009, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: I came across this link by chance. Wow, I never knew there was that many Pascal Compiler implementations. A lot! http://pascaland.org/pascall.htm Well, reduce it to the compilers that are still maintained, and the list is far less impressive... :-( Ralf ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
Remember, Pascal is merely a TEACHING language, unsuitable for commercial software development, which is why we have C. :) On Sunday 11 October 2009 05:00:04 pm Ralf A. Quint wrote: At 03:25 PM 10/11/2009, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: I came across this link by chance. Wow, I never knew there was that many Pascal Compiler implementations. A lot! http://pascaland.org/pascall.htm Well, reduce it to the compilers that are still maintained, and the list is far less impressive... :-( Ralf ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Who said Pascal isn't popular
At 05:27 PM 10/11/2009, Mark Emerson wrote: Remember, Pascal is merely a TEACHING language, unsuitable for commercial software development, which is why we have C. :) Yeah, right... :-} Ralf ;-) ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
