Re: [Framers] nix the attachments let's put them in Tips and Tricks page

[Alan Litchfield]

Thanks Carol,

Much appreciated, on both points.

Alan

On 11/08/16 12:52 pm, Carol J. Elkins wrote:

Framers,

Although I had not restricted attachments for this Framers list, I've
decided to do so today. Attachments generally are not a good idea for
lists this large. When someone attaches a file, all 1,134 list members
receive it. Probably only one or two really wanted it. Attachments also
harbor things that can harm your computer.

However, what I have decided to do is to add a page to the
FrameUsers.com Web site to be called something like Tips and Tricks. You
marvelous people can provide solutions to just about anything, but
occasionally something comes along, like bleeding tabs, that deserves
its own space for quick reference. For these gems, I think it would be
helpful to provide a download link for users.

So Bodvar and Steve, if you could please email me your attachments off
list, I'll build the new page and provide download links to them. If
anyone else has little gems of information that they'd like to share on
a Tips and Tricks page, send them along to me.

Carol Elkins
List Mom
celk...@awrittenword.com


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--
Dr Alan Litchfield
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PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140
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Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 125, Issue 9

[Craig, Alison]

Rick:

When I did a large RFP for translation a while back, I found that various - 
though not all - companies charged for some or all of following items (usually 
by the hour):

* Project Analysis/Prep

* Glossary Prep (units)

* Post Processing, Delivery, TM

* PDF Conversion, QA

* DTP-Desk Top Publishing (units)

* MS Visio (export/import)

A Project Mgmt Fee was often charged as a % of the total project cost so on a 
job costing approximately $6,000-$9,000 for translation, additional costs could 
run $1,000-4,000.

The company I used most often (ADT International, out of France) didn't change 
us any of these fees.

One last piece of advice... If possible, use an LSP that is ISO certified and 
has specialist translators with the required area of expertise. My experience 
is that you get better - and more consistent - translations.

Alison Craig
Technical Documentation Specialist
acr...@bkultrasound.com | 
bkultrasound.com


From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=bkultrasound@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Wroblewski, Victoria
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 2:49 PM
To: 'framers@lists.frameusers.com'; 'r...@frameexpert.com'
Subject: Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 125, Issue 9

Rick,

I current work with a company called TrueLanguage based out of Atlanta (we are 
based out of Chicago), they do Frame projects for us. We have all types of 
projects with them for UI, HTML files, Frame files, and both small and larger 
projects.
http://www.truelanguage.com/

Years back (when writing user guides for network projects and spending $4M a 
year on translations) we used SDL, which not only makes the software most of 
the translators use, but does also provide translations services:
http://www.sdl.com/cxc/language/human-translation/

Both of the companies do both Castilian Spanish and Mexico Spanish, and I am 
sure can provide a Cuban variant if needed.

The thing to remember with most companies for Framemaker translations is that 
you won't just be paying the usual per-word cost, you will have additional 
project fees for Framemaker file formatting post-translations, usually marked 
as "project management" costs.

- V

--

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 20:45:56 -0400
From: "Rick Quatro" 
To: 
Subject: [Framers] Request for Spanish Translators
Message-ID: <004f01d1f369$b9959a40$2cc0cec0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Hi Framers,

I have a client with some unstructured FrameMaker documents that need to be
translated into Spanish for use in Cuba. I would appreciate any
recommendations of good translation companies that I can pass onto my
client. Thank you.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-366-4017
r...@frameexpert.com

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Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 125, Issue 9

[Wroblewski, Victoria]

Rick,

I current work with a company called TrueLanguage based out of Atlanta (we are 
based out of Chicago), they do Frame projects for us.  We have all types of 
projects with them for UI, HTML files, Frame files, and both small and larger 
projects.
http://www.truelanguage.com/

Years back (when writing user guides for network projects and spending $4M a 
year on translations) we used SDL, which not only makes the software most of 
the translators use, but does also provide translations services:
http://www.sdl.com/cxc/language/human-translation/

Both of the companies do both Castilian Spanish and Mexico Spanish, and I am 
sure can provide a Cuban variant if needed.

The thing to remember with most companies for Framemaker translations is that 
you won't just be paying the usual per-word cost, you will have additional 
project fees for Framemaker file formatting post-translations, usually marked 
as "project management" costs. 

- V

--

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 20:45:56 -0400
From: "Rick Quatro" 
To: 
Subject: [Framers] Request for Spanish Translators
Message-ID: <004f01d1f369$b9959a40$2cc0cec0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="US-ASCII"

Hi Framers,

I have a client with some unstructured FrameMaker documents that need to be
translated into Spanish for use in Cuba. I would appreciate any
recommendations of good translation companies that I can pass onto my
client. Thank you.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-366-4017
r...@frameexpert.com

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Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for

[Monique Semp]

> The broader point I was commenting on is whether DITA has become so prevalent 
> that people who do not know about structured authoring are starting to 
> believe that implementing structured authoring is the same thing as 
> implementing DITA, since the two terms are often used interchangeably.

Ah, I see. And yes, we certainly need to be careful so that people don’t 
conflate “structured authoring” with “DITA”.
I purposely used the slash construct, “structured/DITA” precisely because I 
wanted to address both “structured authoring, regardless of the tool” and 
“DITA”. But I agree that, unfortunately, this construct makes them seem 
interchangeable. I’ll have to think how to reword the title. If I drop either 
one, I might lose people who are thinking about the one that I dropped (for 
example, dropping “DITA” and saying just, “structured authoring”), and who 
don’t realize that the presentation is applicable to them even though it uses 
the other term. Which could happen if they’ve conflated the terms.
So I’ll need to think how to re-title it, and am glad for this discussion that 
brought the issue to the forefront!
-Monique
 
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Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for

[Etzel, Gary]

Well, what I was trying to say is that it's relatively easy to implement 
literal structured authoring in FrameMaker. Once you figure out the mechanics 
of writing an EDD, it's pretty easy to create a simple structure that 
formalizes the rules that you have already been applying mentally in the 
unstructured world, and that can make the authoring process a whole lot easier. 
The broader point I was commenting on is whether DITA has become so prevalent 
that people who do not know about structured authoring are starting to believe 
that implementing structured authoring is the same thing as implementing DITA, 
since the two terms are often used interchangeably.


I thought your presentation was good the way it was. I wasn't trying to imply 
that you should change anything.


Gary


From: Monique Semp 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 3:39:02 PM
To: Etzel, Gary; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for

>  when we use the term "structure/DITA", don't we give the impression that
> structured authoring is DITA? That you can't have one without the other?
> And that's just not true. My experience is that you can easily (well,
> relatively easily) implement structured authoring in a tool like
> FrameMaker, without the overhead of a full-blown DITA implementation.

Yes!! That is exactly what my presentation is about: how to implement/adopt
some of the good things from structured authoring "and/or" DITA when you're
using other (unstructured) tools.

So perhaps a different title would better convey the focus of the
presentation?

-Monique


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[Framers] nix the attachments let's put them in Tips and Tricks page

[Carol J. Elkins]

Framers,

Although I had not restricted attachments for this Framers list, I've 
decided to do so today. Attachments generally are not a good idea for 
lists this large. When someone attaches a file, all 1,134 list 
members receive it. Probably only one or two really wanted it. 
Attachments also harbor things that can harm your computer.


However, what I have decided to do is to add a page to the 
FrameUsers.com Web site to be called something like Tips and Tricks. 
You marvelous people can provide solutions to just about anything, 
but occasionally something comes along, like bleeding tabs, that 
deserves its own space for quick reference. For these gems, I think 
it would be helpful to provide a download link for users.


So Bodvar and Steve, if you could please email me your attachments 
off list, I'll build the new page and provide download links to them. 
If anyone else has little gems of information that they'd like to 
share on a Tips and Tricks page, send them along to me.


Carol Elkins
List Mom
celk...@awrittenword.com


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Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for

[Monique Semp]

 when we use the term "structure/DITA", don't we give the impression that 
structured authoring is DITA? That you can't have one without the other? 
And that's just not true. My experience is that you can easily (well, 
relatively easily) implement structured authoring in a tool like 
FrameMaker, without the overhead of a full-blown DITA implementation.


Yes!! That is exactly what my presentation is about: how to implement/adopt 
some of the good things from structured authoring "and/or" DITA when you're 
using other (unstructured) tools.


So perhaps a different title would better convey the focus of the 
presentation?


-Monique 


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Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

[Steve Rickaby]

In this interesting discussion about master page strategies, it's worth 
remembering that FrameMaker gives you the tools to apply master pages 
automatically in both a structured and unstructured environments: the 
UnstructMasterPageMaps and StructMasterPageMaps tables on the reference pages.

These only appear (FrameMaker creates them for you) when you use the Apply 
Master Pages... command. They allow you to trigger the application of specific 
master page based on named paragraph tags on the respective body pages. To 
those of you who know this, it's old hat, but I'm posting this for anyone who's 
not aware of this feature. It can save a load of time and increase layout 
security.

-- 
Steve 
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Re: [Framers] Request for Spanish Translators

[Craig, Alison]

Rick:

Until my company was purchased 3 years ago we used ADT International (formerly 
Anthea Languages) out of France. They did excellent work for us over a period 
of 8 years and the price was extremely competitive (I did a comprehensive RFP 
once and nobody could beat their prices).

Our Copenhagen office - which now manages our translations as well - has used 
nlg out of Greece for years and is very happy with their work. Their prices are 
extremely competitive as well.

Back in 2012, we also tried TransPerfect (for one job). They were good, but 
measurably more expensive.

http://www.adt-international.com/en/
http://www.nlgworldwide.com/
http://www.transperfect.com/services/translation.html

Alison Craig
Technical Documentation Specialist
acr...@bkultrasound.com | 
bkultrasound.com


From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=bkultrasound@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 5:46 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Request for Spanish Translators

Hi Framers,

I have a client with some unstructured FrameMaker documents that need to be
translated into Spanish for use in Cuba. I would appreciate any
recommendations of good translation companies that I can pass onto my
client. Thank you.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-366-4017
r...@frameexpert.com






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Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for

[john . x . posada]

Actually ...I see it opposite from you. Structure/DITA to me notes the DITA
version and if it was another, say, Structure/SGML as another kind.

John X Posada
AVP | Global Risk Analytics | HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY

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From:   "Etzel, Gary" 
To: Monique Semp ,
"framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Date:   08/11/2016 01:04 PM
Subject:Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for
Sent by:"Framers"   



My question is not directed at you specifically, Monique, but I'm curious
about how the term "structure/DITA" came into play, as if they are
interchangeable and mean the same thing. I am seeing this used more and
more in presentations and online, and it really gets under my skin. DITA is
one implementation of structured authoring, just like "Kleenex" is one
implementation of a "tissue". Sure, I understand the need in some
industries to have an authoring standard so that information can be
exchanged and whatnot. But when we use the term "structure/DITA", don't we
give the impression that structured authoring is DITA? That you can't have
one without the other? And that's just not true. My experience is that you
can easily (well, relatively easily) implement structured authoring in a
tool like FrameMaker, without the overhead of a full-blown DITA
implementation.

I'd love to hear some opinions on that.


-Original Message-
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces
+gary.etzel=dnvgl@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Monique Semp
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 11:52 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for

> I'll be presenting nuts-and-bolts examples of how to do a bunch of
"structured/DITA things" in Word, FrameMaker, Doxygen/Javadoc, and MadCap
Flare...
I gave this presentation to the STC-Berkeley chapter last night, and per
several requests from this list, am sharing the slide deck. You can find it
on SlideShare:
http://www.slideshare.net/msemp/adopting-structuredanddita-best-practices-for-any-toolset?qid=38e06f93-0828-471c-a39b-54267a5660d4==_search=1
, and on my LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/moniquesemp (for
now in the Summary section, and after “a while” in the experience entry for
Society for Technical Communication).
I’d certainly welcome comment and discussion, -Monique

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Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for

[Pat Christenson]

Thanks, Monique! I will definitely take a look at this.

Pat Christenson

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+pat.christenson=morningstar@lists.frameusers.com] 
On Behalf Of Monique Semp
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:52 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for

> I'll be presenting nuts-and-bolts examples of how to do a bunch of 
> "structured/DITA things" in Word, FrameMaker, Doxygen/Javadoc, and MadCap 
> Flare...
I gave this presentation to the STC-Berkeley chapter last night, and per 
several requests from this list, am sharing the slide deck. You can find it on 
SlideShare: 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.slideshare.net_msemp_adopting-2Dstructuredanddita-2Dbest-2Dpractices-2Dfor-2Dany-2Dtoolset-3Fqid-3D38e06f93-2D0828-2D471c-2Da39b-2D54267a5660d4-26v-3D-26b-3D-26from-5Fsearch-3D1=DQIGaQ=qrd1rYdJNb4QhfvJv5PebOPglYwfSMJ71NR_1HMKptQ=XCAkAkKD_C5LA8IHfBffTgJF3-vQqo8LO_6iaUj61_E=kNNB0llCcx1uzCBmLHjWHZcq_fw0n4Ir6VZIxY8f2S4=axt_2iE1Tqn32mHcGiUjbpm7s4C8lAHjNgrMTyHDhQk=
 , and on my LinkedIn profile: 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linkedin.com_in_moniquesemp=DQIGaQ=qrd1rYdJNb4QhfvJv5PebOPglYwfSMJ71NR_1HMKptQ=XCAkAkKD_C5LA8IHfBffTgJF3-vQqo8LO_6iaUj61_E=kNNB0llCcx1uzCBmLHjWHZcq_fw0n4Ir6VZIxY8f2S4=pco8L4A7Ntq0fR7l2Y1Qno990kRRdM6yGGrm-0zYCbM=
  (for now in the Summary section, and after “a while” in the experience entry 
for Society for Technical Communication).
I’d certainly welcome comment and discussion, -Monique
 
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Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for

[Etzel, Gary]

My question is not directed at you specifically, Monique, but I'm curious about 
how the term "structure/DITA" came into play, as if they are interchangeable 
and mean the same thing. I am seeing this used more and more in presentations 
and online, and it really gets under my skin. DITA is one implementation of 
structured authoring, just like "Kleenex" is one implementation of a "tissue". 
Sure, I understand the need in some industries to have an authoring standard so 
that information can be exchanged and whatnot. But when we use the term 
"structure/DITA", don't we give the impression that structured authoring is 
DITA? That you can't have one without the other? And that's just not true. My 
experience is that you can easily (well, relatively easily) implement 
structured authoring in a tool like FrameMaker, without the overhead of a 
full-blown DITA implementation.

I'd love to hear some opinions on that.


-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+gary.etzel=dnvgl@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of 
Monique Semp
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 11:52 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for

> I'll be presenting nuts-and-bolts examples of how to do a bunch of 
> "structured/DITA things" in Word, FrameMaker, Doxygen/Javadoc, and MadCap 
> Flare...
I gave this presentation to the STC-Berkeley chapter last night, and per 
several requests from this list, am sharing the slide deck. You can find it on 
SlideShare: 
http://www.slideshare.net/msemp/adopting-structuredanddita-best-practices-for-any-toolset?qid=38e06f93-0828-471c-a39b-54267a5660d4==_search=1,
 and on my LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/moniquesemp (for now 
in the Summary section, and after “a while” in the experience entry for Society 
for Technical Communication).
I’d certainly welcome comment and discussion, -Monique

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Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

[Robert Lauriston]

My view is that all importable elements should be defined in an
external .fm file that serves as a template for all files in a book.
Then you can use Apply Master Pages to clean things up after
reorganizing.

Manually tying formats to the current sequence of .fm files in a .book
incurs significant technological debt.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 7:03 AM, Harding, Dan  wrote:
> "That seems wrong to me. Master pages should not vary from chapter to 
> chapter."
>
> Since when? As long as the page dimensions and main text flow frames are 
> identical, master page ancillary content can most certainly vary by chapter. 
> You are not limited to using a single master page set for an entire book.
>
> -Dan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> [mailto:framers-bounces+dharding=illinois@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
> Of Robert Lauriston
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:02 PM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs
>
> That seems wrong to me. Master pages should not vary from chapter to chapter.
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Harding, Dan  wrote:
>> Maybe I'm too "old school" but I've been using side tabs for years, but a 
>> simple manual implementation rather than anything automated.
>>
>> I have a one-page master document just for side tabs that has ALL of the 
>> thumb tabs on it for the entire book (or more than one recto page if there 
>> are multiple sequences of tabs), properly spaced with graphics and text 
>> grouped, and then simply select and copy and paste the relevant group onto 
>> the master page of each chapter.
>>
>> One copy & paste action per chapter. Works like a charm.
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Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for

[Robert Lauriston]

You should post the link to that presentation on techwr-l as well.
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Re: [Framers] structured content - not always called for

[Monique Semp]

> I'll be presenting nuts-and-bolts examples of how to do a bunch of 
> "structured/DITA things" in Word, FrameMaker, Doxygen/Javadoc, and MadCap 
> Flare...
I gave this presentation to the STC-Berkeley chapter last night, and per 
several requests from this list, am sharing the slide deck. You can find it on 
SlideShare: 
http://www.slideshare.net/msemp/adopting-structuredanddita-best-practices-for-any-toolset?qid=38e06f93-0828-471c-a39b-54267a5660d4==_search=1,
 and on my LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/moniquesemp (for now 
in the Summary section, and after “a while” in the experience entry for Society 
for Technical Communication).
I’d certainly welcome comment and discussion,
-Monique
 
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Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

[Steve Rickaby]

At 09:39 -0500 11/8/16, Theresa de Valence wrote:
>On 8/10/2016 11:37 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote:
>>I would suggest you use thumbs tabs on every page, and move them down
>>the page as the chapters increment. This makes them easier to use. I
>>can tell you how to do this (automatically, unstructured) if you
>>decide to go down this route.
>
>
>I would be interested to know how to do this.

Sending you an article off-line.

-- 
Steve
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Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

[Theresa de Valence]

On 8/10/2016 11:37 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote:

I would suggest you use thumbs tabs on every page, and move them down
the page as the chapters increment. This makes them easier to use. I
can tell you how to do this (automatically, unstructured) if you
decide to go down this route.



I would be interested to know how to do this.

Thanks,
Theresa de Valence

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Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

[john . x . posada]

And a cover page, and a TOC page,and a Front Matter page, and a horizontal
layout page if you are inclined

Can't you have a mater page for each of the side tabs, then have FM select
the MP automatically based on a paragraph style you can apply to the
section?

I haven't been following this thread much, so if what I'm saying doesn't
make sense, I'm getting used to it.

John X Posada
AVP | Global Risk Analytics | HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY

 __ 





 Phone  
 Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: 732-259-2874
 Fax
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 74809254   
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From:   "Harding, Dan" 
To:
Cc: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Date:   08/11/2016 10:31 AM
Subject:Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs
Sent by:"Framers"   



Then I'm missing something in the discussion: I'm not creating additional
master page sets. By default, a FM file has a "Left" and a "Right" master
page... which I am using. I'm simply copying the relevant background object
group from the side tab master FM file and pasting it onto the "Right"
master page for that chapter FM file. I'm not changing anything else.

The side tab master file is where I set sizing and positioning for all of
the tab groups relevant to one another, and then simply utilize as needed
throughout the "real" chapter files... For the chapter 1 FM file, the tab 1
group of objects for the side tab get copied, for the chapter 2 FM file,
the tab 2 group, etc. Since copy and paste work on exact position, it's a
very simple process.

I'm hard pressed to understand how not putting the tab objects on the
master pages would make this process easier.

-Dan

-Original Message-
From: john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com [mailto:john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:10 AM
To: Harding, Dan 
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com; Framers 
Subject: Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

No, but it makes your life easier.  Even if you have 10 or more different
master pages, wouldn't it be easier to have on MP and just define which
page to use?

The only time I could picture multiple MP sets is one for each client or
document type (Release note vs instructions_

John X Posada
AVP | Global Risk Analytics | HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY

 __





 Phone
 Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: 732-259-2874
 Fax
 Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code
 74809254
 Email
 john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com

 __
 Protect our environment - please only print this
 if you have to!






From:"Harding, Dan" 
To:  "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Date:08/11/2016 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs
Sent by: "Framers"   



"That seems wrong to me. Master pages should not vary from chapter to
chapter."

Since when? As long as the page dimensions and main text flow frames are
identical, master page ancillary content can most certainly vary by
chapter. You are not limited to using a single master page set for an
entire book.

-Dan

-Original Message-
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces
+dharding=illinois@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert
+Lauriston
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:02 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

That seems wrong to me. Master pages should not vary from chapter to
chapter.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Harding, Dan 
wrote:
> Maybe I'm too "old school" but I've been using side tabs for years,
> but a
simple manual implementation rather than anything automated.
>
> I have a one-page master document just for side tabs that has ALL of
> the
thumb tabs on it for the entire book (or more than one recto page if there
are multiple sequences of tabs), properly spaced with graphics and text
grouped, and then simply select and copy and paste the relevant group onto
the 

Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

[Harding, Dan]

Then I'm missing something in the discussion: I'm not creating additional 
master page sets. By default, a FM file has a "Left" and a "Right" master 
page... which I am using. I'm simply copying the relevant background object 
group from the side tab master FM file and pasting it onto the "Right" master 
page for that chapter FM file. I'm not changing anything else.

The side tab master file is where I set sizing and positioning for all of the 
tab groups relevant to one another, and then simply utilize as needed 
throughout the "real" chapter files... For the chapter 1 FM file, the tab 1 
group of objects for the side tab get copied, for the chapter 2 FM file, the 
tab 2 group, etc. Since copy and paste work on exact position, it's a very 
simple process. 

I'm hard pressed to understand how not putting the tab objects on the master 
pages would make this process easier.

-Dan

-Original Message-
From: john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com [mailto:john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:10 AM
To: Harding, Dan 
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com; Framers 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

No, but it makes your life easier.  Even if you have 10 or more different 
master pages, wouldn't it be easier to have on MP and just define which page to 
use?

The only time I could picture multiple MP sets is one for each client or 
document type (Release note vs instructions_

John X Posada
AVP | Global Risk Analytics | HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY

 __ 





 Phone  
 Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: 732-259-2874
 Fax
 Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code 
 74809254   
 Email  
 john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com  

 __ 
 Protect our environment - please only print this   
 if you have to!






From:   "Harding, Dan" 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Date:   08/11/2016 10:04 AM
Subject:Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs
Sent by:"Framers"   



"That seems wrong to me. Master pages should not vary from chapter to chapter."

Since when? As long as the page dimensions and main text flow frames are 
identical, master page ancillary content can most certainly vary by chapter. 
You are not limited to using a single master page set for an entire book.

-Dan

-Original Message-
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces
+dharding=illinois@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert 
+Lauriston
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:02 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

That seems wrong to me. Master pages should not vary from chapter to chapter.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Harding, Dan 
wrote:
> Maybe I'm too "old school" but I've been using side tabs for years, 
> but a
simple manual implementation rather than anything automated.
>
> I have a one-page master document just for side tabs that has ALL of 
> the
thumb tabs on it for the entire book (or more than one recto page if there are 
multiple sequences of tabs), properly spaced with graphics and text grouped, 
and then simply select and copy and paste the relevant group onto the master 
page of each chapter.
>
> One copy & paste action per chapter. Works like a charm.
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Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

[john . x . posada]

No, but it makes your life easier.  Even if you have 10 or more different
master pages, wouldn't it be easier to have on MP and just define which
page to use?

The only time I could picture multiple MP sets is one for each client or
document type (Release note vs instructions_

John X Posada
AVP | Global Risk Analytics | HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY

 __ 





 Phone  
 Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: 732-259-2874
 Fax
 Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code 
 74809254   
 Email  
 john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com  

 __ 
 Protect our environment - please only print this   
 if you have to!






From:   "Harding, Dan" 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Date:   08/11/2016 10:04 AM
Subject:Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs
Sent by:"Framers"   



"That seems wrong to me. Master pages should not vary from chapter to
chapter."

Since when? As long as the page dimensions and main text flow frames are
identical, master page ancillary content can most certainly vary by
chapter. You are not limited to using a single master page set for an
entire book.

-Dan

-Original Message-
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces
+dharding=illinois@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:02 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

That seems wrong to me. Master pages should not vary from chapter to
chapter.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Harding, Dan 
wrote:
> Maybe I'm too "old school" but I've been using side tabs for years, but a
simple manual implementation rather than anything automated.
>
> I have a one-page master document just for side tabs that has ALL of the
thumb tabs on it for the entire book (or more than one recto page if there
are multiple sequences of tabs), properly spaced with graphics and text
grouped, and then simply select and copy and paste the relevant group onto
the master page of each chapter.
>
> One copy & paste action per chapter. Works like a charm.
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Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

[Harding, Dan]

"That seems wrong to me. Master pages should not vary from chapter to chapter."

Since when? As long as the page dimensions and main text flow frames are 
identical, master page ancillary content can most certainly vary by chapter. 
You are not limited to using a single master page set for an entire book.

-Dan

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+dharding=illinois@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf 
Of Robert Lauriston
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:02 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

That seems wrong to me. Master pages should not vary from chapter to chapter.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Harding, Dan  wrote:
> Maybe I'm too "old school" but I've been using side tabs for years, but a 
> simple manual implementation rather than anything automated.
>
> I have a one-page master document just for side tabs that has ALL of the 
> thumb tabs on it for the entire book (or more than one recto page if there 
> are multiple sequences of tabs), properly spaced with graphics and text 
> grouped, and then simply select and copy and paste the relevant group onto 
> the master page of each chapter.
>
> One copy & paste action per chapter. Works like a charm.
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[Framers] Thumb Tabs

[Denis Daly]

Thanks to all, for the excellent advice on this topic.

It is very much appreciated.

Denis

Denis Daly
Technical Writer

[cid:image001.png@01CEBECA.0440CD30]
Kilbrittain, Co. Cork, 
IRELAND
Postcode: P72 FR82


Phone:  +353 (0)23 8849 114
Fax:  +353 (0)21 2380 559
Info:  www.icpnewtech.com

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Re: [Framers] Thumb Tabs

[Scott Turner]

Yes it can be done, and it is effective for printed materials. I did this for 
documents back around Frame 5 onward. I used conditional text to set the 
chapter bleed tabs. That was back when the company k was with produces a 
printed manual as a product.

> On Aug 10, 2016, at 09:53, Denis Daly  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> For a new Technical User Guide, we are exploring the use of printed 'Thumb 
> Tabs' (correct name?).
> 
> These would be printed on page one of each section; their purpose to aid the 
> user in retrieving relevant information more quickly.
> 
> Do you think this is a sensible idea, and can it be done using FM?
> 
> I use FM12, Windows 10.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Denis
> 
> 
> 
> Denis Daly
> Technical Writer
> 
> [cid:image001.png@01CEBECA.0440CD30]
> Kilbrittain, Co. Cork, 
> IRELAND
> Postcode: P72 FR82
> 
> 
> Phone:  +353 (0)23 8849 114
> Fax:  +353 (0)21 2380 559
> Info:  www.icpnewtech.com
> 
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Re: [Framers] cumulative or independent? - patches/updates for FM 2015 (FM 13)

[Caroline Tabach]

Have people installed without problems, as people found bugs in the previous 
updates?


Caroline Tabach
Technical/Marcom Writer
Tel: +972-077-7745-042| carol...@radcom.com | www.radcom.com


-Original Message-
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+caroline=radcom@lists.frameusers.com] 
On Behalf Of Craig Ede
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 21:18
To: framers
Subject: Re: [Framers] cumulative or independent? - patches/updates for FM 2015 
(FM 13)

Here's the page that contains all the updates to various FM versions since 
5.5.6:

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=22=Windows


You'll


Craig


From: Framers  on 
behalf of Alan Litchfield 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:55 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] cumulative or independent? - patches/updates for FM 2015 
(FM 13)

And let us know ;)

Alan

On 10/08/16 10:32 am, Scott Prentice wrote:
> I believe they are now cumulative. Try installing the last one .. if 
> it works, you're good.
>
> ...scott
>
>
> On 8/10/16 10:27 AM, Craig Ede wrote:
>> The updates have had to be installed one by one in the past. I don't 
>> expect that has changed.
>>
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> 
>> From: Framers
>>  on behalf 
>> of Monique Semp 
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:25 PM
>> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
>> Subject: [Framers] cumulative or independent? - patches/updates for 
>> FM
>> 2015 (FM 13)
>>
>> Hello, Framers,
>>
>> I just became aware that there are now 4 updates for FrameMaker 2015:
>> https://helpx.adobe.com/framemaker/kb/resolved-issues-framemaker-2015.html.
Resolved issues in FrameMaker (2015 release) - Adobe 
Systems
helpx.adobe.com
The following is a list of issues resolved in FrameMaker (2015 release) and 
subsequent patch releases. Check the FrameMaker forum for solutions, 
workarounds, or any ...


>>
>> Resolved issues in FrameMaker (2015 release) - Adobe 
>> Systems> ker-2015.html>
>>
>> helpx.adobe.com
>> The following is a list of issues resolved in FrameMaker (2015
>> release) and subsequent patch releases. Check the FrameMaker forum 
>> for solutions, workarounds, or any ...
>>
>>
>>
>> I perused the list of features/bug fixes, and although much of it is 
>> irrelevant for me, some of it would be nice to have (such as the 
>> freezing problem when managing conditions in the conditions pod, 
>> which I have experienced; and support for Windows 10, which will 
>> surely be the OS for my next computer purchase, perhaps before year's 
>> end, but certainly by next year's Q1 or Q2).
>>
>> So is it best to install/reboot/verify that things generally work on 
>> a one-by-one update release or can/should I just jump to installing 
>> the most recent one, update 4?
>>
>> Thanks for your advice,
>> -Monique
>> ___
>>
>> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>>
>> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
>> homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
>> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
>> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
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Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140
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