Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-08-03 Thread Writer 
Er...I meant a rebel without a clew.
Nadine

  From: "john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com" <john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com>
 To: Writer <generic...@yahoo.ca> 
Cc: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" <framers@lists.frameusers.com>; Framers 
<framers-bounces+john.x.posada=us.hsbc@lists.frameusers.com>; Lin Sims 
<ljsims...@gmail.com>; Pat Christenson <pat.christen...@morningstar.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 2:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content
   
Sometimes ya fight.

Sometimes ya don't

John X Posada
AVP | Global Risk Analytics | HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY

 __





 Phone
    Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: 732-259-2874
 Fax
    Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code
    74809254
 Email
    john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com

 __
 Protect our environment - please only print this
 if you have to!






From:    Writer <generic...@yahoo.ca>
To:    Pat Christenson <pat.christen...@morningstar.com>, Lin Sims
            <ljsims...@gmail.com>
Cc:    "framers@lists.frameusers.com" <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Date:    08/03/2016 02:20 PM
Subject:    Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content
Sent by:    "Framers"    



Yes. No point in being a rebel.
Nadine

      From: Pat Christenson <pat.christen...@morningstar.com>
 To: Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com>
Cc: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 5:25 PM
 Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

Thanks for the reminder!

From: Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 4:11 PM
To: Pat Christenson <pat.christen...@morningstar.com>
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

Just don't forget to take the clew with you, or you'll be completely lost.

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Pat Christenson
<pat.christen...@morningstar.com<mailto:pat.christen...@morningstar.com>>
wrote:
Thank you, everyone who responded to my question.

I met with my managers today and we worked out a solution that's involves
creating a mythical beast that's half out-of-date user guide and
half-up-to-date release notes. When I'm not following the thread out of
that maze (are you loving my classical references?), I will be updating the
user guide, merging the two halves into one glorious golden fleece that men
will cross oceans to marvel at.

Thanks again.

-Original Message-
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+pat.christenson<
mailto:framers-bounces%2Bpat.christenson
>=morningstar@lists.frameusers.com<
mailto:morningstar@lists.frameusers.com>] On Behalf Of
r...@weststreetconsulting.com<mailto:r...@weststreetconsulting.com>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 3:21 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content


Fine, you all can have the last word. I know better than to continue this
debate. I should have known better than to even start it.

Russ

--

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:58:29 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston <rob...@lauriston.com<mailto:rob...@lauriston.com>>
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>"
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured  content
Message-ID:
 <can3yy4a5zr2tzurjgsnbhouxzt6ytpfovsuek3au-cr1a8y...@mail.gmail.com<
mailto:can3yy4a5zr2tzurjgsnbhouxzt6ytpfovsuek3au-cr1a8y...@mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Structured markup has been around longer than the web, PDFs, online help,
or personal computers.

Since you make your living from structured content, I'm not going to waste
time explaining why it's not the best choice for every set of requirements,
and why people are still creating interesting and useful unstructured
tools.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM, <r...@weststreetconsulting.com<
mailto:r...@weststreetconsulting.com>> wrote:
> Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE
> answer, period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content
> anymore, because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer
> in a high-demand environment should be using structured content. If
> you are not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to
> modern practices. ...


--

___

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Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com<
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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-08-03 Thread john . x . posada 
Sometimes ya fight.

Sometimes ya don't

John X Posada
AVP | Global Risk Analytics | HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY

 __





 Phone
 Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: 732-259-2874
 Fax
 Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code
 74809254
 Email
 john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com

 __
 Protect our environment - please only print this
 if you have to!






From:   Writer <generic...@yahoo.ca>
To: Pat Christenson <pat.christen...@morningstar.com>, Lin Sims
<ljsims...@gmail.com>
Cc: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Date:   08/03/2016 02:20 PM
Subject:    Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content
Sent by:"Framers"   



Yes. No point in being a rebel.
Nadine

  From: Pat Christenson <pat.christen...@morningstar.com>
 To: Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com>
Cc: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 5:25 PM
 Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

Thanks for the reminder!

From: Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 4:11 PM
To: Pat Christenson <pat.christen...@morningstar.com>
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

Just don't forget to take the clew with you, or you'll be completely lost.

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Pat Christenson
<pat.christen...@morningstar.com<mailto:pat.christen...@morningstar.com>>
wrote:
Thank you, everyone who responded to my question.

I met with my managers today and we worked out a solution that's involves
creating a mythical beast that's half out-of-date user guide and
half-up-to-date release notes. When I'm not following the thread out of
that maze (are you loving my classical references?), I will be updating the
user guide, merging the two halves into one glorious golden fleece that men
will cross oceans to marvel at.

Thanks again.

-Original Message-
From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+pat.christenson<
mailto:framers-bounces%2Bpat.christenson
>=morningstar@lists.frameusers.com<
mailto:morningstar@lists.frameusers.com>] On Behalf Of
r...@weststreetconsulting.com<mailto:r...@weststreetconsulting.com>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 3:21 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content


Fine, you all can have the last word. I know better than to continue this
debate. I should have known better than to even start it.

Russ

--

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:58:29 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston <rob...@lauriston.com<mailto:rob...@lauriston.com>>
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>"
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured  content
Message-ID:
 <can3yy4a5zr2tzurjgsnbhouxzt6ytpfovsuek3au-cr1a8y...@mail.gmail.com<
mailto:can3yy4a5zr2tzurjgsnbhouxzt6ytpfovsuek3au-cr1a8y...@mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Structured markup has been around longer than the web, PDFs, online help,
or personal computers.

Since you make your living from structured content, I'm not going to waste
time explaining why it's not the best choice for every set of requirements,
and why people are still creating interesting and useful unstructured
tools.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM, <r...@weststreetconsulting.com<
mailto:r...@weststreetconsulting.com>> wrote:
> Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE
> answer, period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content
> anymore, because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer
> in a high-demand environment should be using structured content. If
> you are not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to
> modern practices. ...


--

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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-08-03 Thread Writer 
Yes. No point in being a rebel.
Nadine

  From: Pat Christenson <pat.christen...@morningstar.com>
 To: Lin Sims <ljsims...@gmail.com> 
Cc: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 5:25 PM
 Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content
   
Thanks for the reminder!

From: Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 4:11 PM
To: Pat Christenson <pat.christen...@morningstar.com>
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

Just don't forget to take the clew with you, or you'll be completely lost.

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Pat Christenson 
<pat.christen...@morningstar.com<mailto:pat.christen...@morningstar.com>> wrote:
Thank you, everyone who responded to my question.

I met with my managers today and we worked out a solution that's involves 
creating a mythical beast that's half out-of-date user guide and 
half-up-to-date release notes. When I'm not following the thread out of that 
maze (are you loving my classical references?), I will be updating the user 
guide, merging the two halves into one glorious golden fleece that men will 
cross oceans to marvel at.

Thanks again.

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+pat.christenson<mailto:framers-bounces%2Bpat.christenson>=morningstar@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:morningstar@lists.frameusers.com>]
 On Behalf Of 
r...@weststreetconsulting.com<mailto:r...@weststreetconsulting.com>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 3:21 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content


Fine, you all can have the last word. I know better than to continue this 
debate. I should have known better than to even start it.

Russ

--

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:58:29 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston <rob...@lauriston.com<mailto:rob...@lauriston.com>>
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>"
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured  content
Message-ID:
 
<can3yy4a5zr2tzurjgsnbhouxzt6ytpfovsuek3au-cr1a8y...@mail.gmail.com<mailto:can3yy4a5zr2tzurjgsnbhouxzt6ytpfovsuek3au-cr1a8y...@mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Structured markup has been around longer than the web, PDFs, online help, or 
personal computers.

Since you make your living from structured content, I'm not going to waste time 
explaining why it's not the best choice for every set of requirements, and why 
people are still creating interesting and useful unstructured tools.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM, 
<r...@weststreetconsulting.com<mailto:r...@weststreetconsulting.com>> wrote:
> Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE
> answer, period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content
> anymore, because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer
> in a high-demand environment should be using structured content. If
> you are not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to
> modern practices. ...


--

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--
Lin Sims
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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-08-02 Thread Pat Christenson 
Thanks for the reminder!

From: Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 4:11 PM
To: Pat Christenson <pat.christen...@morningstar.com>
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

Just don't forget to take the clew with you, or you'll be completely lost.

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Pat Christenson 
<pat.christen...@morningstar.com<mailto:pat.christen...@morningstar.com>> wrote:
Thank you, everyone who responded to my question.

I met with my managers today and we worked out a solution that's involves 
creating a mythical beast that's half out-of-date user guide and 
half-up-to-date release notes. When I'm not following the thread out of that 
maze (are you loving my classical references?), I will be updating the user 
guide, merging the two halves into one glorious golden fleece that men will 
cross oceans to marvel at.

Thanks again.

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+pat.christenson<mailto:framers-bounces%2Bpat.christenson>=morningstar@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:morningstar@lists.frameusers.com>]
 On Behalf Of 
r...@weststreetconsulting.com<mailto:r...@weststreetconsulting.com>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 3:21 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content


Fine, you all can have the last word. I know better than to continue this 
debate. I should have known better than to even start it.

Russ

--

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:58:29 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston <rob...@lauriston.com<mailto:rob...@lauriston.com>>
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>"
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured  content
Message-ID:
 
<can3yy4a5zr2tzurjgsnbhouxzt6ytpfovsuek3au-cr1a8y...@mail.gmail.com<mailto:can3yy4a5zr2tzurjgsnbhouxzt6ytpfovsuek3au-cr1a8y...@mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Structured markup has been around longer than the web, PDFs, online help, or 
personal computers.

Since you make your living from structured content, I'm not going to waste time 
explaining why it's not the best choice for every set of requirements, and why 
people are still creating interesting and useful unstructured tools.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM, 
<r...@weststreetconsulting.com<mailto:r...@weststreetconsulting.com>> wrote:
> Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE
> answer, period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content
> anymore, because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer
> in a high-demand environment should be using structured content. If
> you are not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to
> modern practices. ...


--

___

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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-08-02 Thread Lin Sims 
Just don't forget to take the clew with you, or you'll be completely lost.

On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Pat Christenson <
pat.christen...@morningstar.com> wrote:

> Thank you, everyone who responded to my question.
>
> I met with my managers today and we worked out a solution that's involves
> creating a mythical beast that's half out-of-date user guide and
> half-up-to-date release notes. When I'm not following the thread out of
> that maze (are you loving my classical references?), I will be updating the
> user guide, merging the two halves into one glorious golden fleece that men
> will cross oceans to marvel at.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+pat.christenson=
> morningstar@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of
> r...@weststreetconsulting.com
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 3:21 PM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content
>
>
> Fine, you all can have the last word. I know better than to continue this
> debate. I should have known better than to even start it.
>
> Russ
>
> --
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:58:29 -0700
> From: Robert Lauriston <rob...@lauriston.com>
> To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com"
> Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured  content
> Message-ID:
>  <can3yy4a5zr2tzurjgsnbhouxzt6ytpfovsuek3au-cr1a8y...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Structured markup has been around longer than the web, PDFs, online help,
> or personal computers.
>
> Since you make your living from structured content, I'm not going to waste
> time explaining why it's not the best choice for every set of requirements,
> and why people are still creating interesting and useful unstructured tools.
>
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM, <r...@weststreetconsulting.com> wrote:
> > Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE
> > answer, period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content
> > anymore, because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer
> > in a high-demand environment should be using structured content. If
> > you are not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to
> > modern practices. ...
>
>
> --
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage
> at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
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> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>



-- 
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___

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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-08-02 Thread Pat Christenson 
Thank you, everyone who responded to my question.

I met with my managers today and we worked out a solution that's involves 
creating a mythical beast that's half out-of-date user guide and 
half-up-to-date release notes. When I'm not following the thread out of that 
maze (are you loving my classical references?), I will be updating the user 
guide, merging the two halves into one glorious golden fleece that men will 
cross oceans to marvel at.

Thanks again.

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+pat.christenson=morningstar@lists.frameusers.com] 
On Behalf Of r...@weststreetconsulting.com
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 3:21 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content


Fine, you all can have the last word. I know better than to continue this 
debate. I should have known better than to even start it.

Russ

--

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:58:29 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston <rob...@lauriston.com>
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured  content
Message-ID:
 <can3yy4a5zr2tzurjgsnbhouxzt6ytpfovsuek3au-cr1a8y...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Structured markup has been around longer than the web, PDFs, online help, or 
personal computers.

Since you make your living from structured content, I'm not going to waste time 
explaining why it's not the best choice for every set of requirements, and why 
people are still creating interesting and useful unstructured tools.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM, <r...@weststreetconsulting.com> wrote:
> Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE 
> answer, period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content 
> anymore, because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer 
> in a high-demand environment should be using structured content. If 
> you are not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to 
> modern practices. ...


--

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This message is from the Framers mailing list

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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-07-29 Thread russ 

Fine, you all can have the last word. I know better than to continue
this debate. I should have known better than to even start it.

Russ

--

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 13:58:29 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston <rob...@lauriston.com>
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured
 content
Message-ID:
 <can3yy4a5zr2tzurjgsnbhouxzt6ytpfovsuek3au-cr1a8y...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Structured markup has been around longer than the web, PDFs, online
help, or personal computers.

Since you make your living from structured content, I'm not going to
waste time explaining why it's not the best choice for every set of
requirements, and why people are still creating interesting and useful
unstructured tools.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM, <r...@weststreetconsulting.com> wrote:
> Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE answer,
> period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content anymore,
> because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer in a
> high-demand environment should be using structured content. If you are
> not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to modern
> practices. ...


--

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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-07-29 Thread Pat Christenson 
Russ:

"This is the quickest path to failure I can think of. All roads to success 
involve the long view and much investment. If you won't do this, nobody here 
can help you regardless any tools or technologies."

I have to disagree, Russ. Not every problem requires "much investment," and as 
for your statement that nobody here can help me regardless of tools or tech, 
two people have sent me ideas, both of which are workable, could be implemented 
immediately (or close to it), would cost nothing, and are better than what I 
have here now.

Pat

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
[mailto:framers-bounces+pat.christenson=morningstar@lists.frameusers.com] 
On Behalf Of r...@weststreetconsulting.com
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 3:01 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE answer, 
period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content anymore, because 
the technology is decades old. Any technical writer in a high-demand 
environment should be using structured content. If you are not, you are now 
closer to the typewriter than you are to modern practices.

Having said that, DITA is but one option. Some find answers there, others do 
not. There are many ways to structure information and get significant benefits. 
Fortunately, you are already using FrameMaker which is a very flexible 
structured authoring tool. Take some time to investigate and see what it has to 
offer. You would be in much worse shape if you were using Word or similar.

Also, I have to comment on this one statement:

"I can't stress enough that right now, we need short-term solutions."

This is the quickest path to failure I can think of. All roads to success 
involve the long view and much investment. If you won't do this, nobody here 
can help you regardless any tools or technologies.

Russ


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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-07-28 Thread Alan Litchfield 

Reiterating what John and Robert said.

I too often see people who love their technology and see it as the 
solution to every problem. When all you have is a hammer, then 
everything looks like a nail.


There are very good reasons for unstructured content, that can just as 
easily be marked up into HTML or produced as pdf, help,... Just as there 
are very good reasons for using structured content. There are probably 
equal numbers of reasons for not using either.


Structured content, for them that have been doing this multiple decades, 
is not progress but a range of alternatives (GML has been around since 
the 1960's).


Alan


On 29/07/16 8:13 am, john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com wrote:
> I disagree...you have the tool doing the driving instead of the
> requirement.
>
> If I want interesting, I'll go white water rafting. It's mind-sets like
> this that cause $10,000.00 projects to get budgeted at $100,00.00


On 29/07/16 8:42 am, john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com wrote:

Structured is the right way to do if it is the right way to go...not
because it is structured.

John X Posada
AVP | Global Risk Analytics | HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY

 __



On 29/07/16 8:58 am, Robert Lauriston wrote:
> Structured markup has been around longer than the web, PDFs, online
> help, or personal computers.
>
> Since you make your living from structured content, I'm not going to
> waste time explaining why it's not the best choice for every set of
> requirements, and why people are still creating interesting and useful
> unstructured tools.

--
Dr Alan Litchfield
AlphaByte
PO Box 1941
Auckland, New Zealand 1140
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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-07-28 Thread Robert Lauriston 
Structured markup has been around longer than the web, PDFs, online
help, or personal computers.

Since you make your living from structured content, I'm not going to
waste time explaining why it's not the best choice for every set of
requirements, and why people are still creating interesting and useful
unstructured tools.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM,   wrote:
> Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE answer,
> period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content anymore,
> because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer in a
> high-demand environment should be using structured content. If you are
> not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to modern
> practices. ...
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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-07-28 Thread john . x . posada 
Structured is the right way to do if it is the right way to go...not
because it is structured.

John X Posada
AVP | Global Risk Analytics | HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY

 __ 





 Phone  
 Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: 732-259-2874
 Fax
 Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code 
 74809254   
 Email  
 john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com  

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 if you have to!






From:   John X Posada/HBUS/HSBC@HSBC02
To: <r...@weststreetconsulting.com>
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com, Framers 
Date:   07/28/2016 04:14 PM
Subject:    Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content
Sent by:"Framers"   



I disagree...you have the tool doing the driving instead of the
requirement.

If I want interesting, I'll go white water rafting. It's mind-sets like
this that cause $10,000.00 projects to get budgeted at $100,00.00

John X Posada
AVP | Global Risk Analytics | HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY

 __





 Phone
 Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: 732-259-2874
 Fax
 Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code
 74809254
 Email
 john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com

 __
 Protect our environment - please only print this
 if you have to!






From:<r...@weststreetconsulting.com>
To:  framers@lists.frameusers.com
Date:07/28/2016 04:01 PM
Subject:         Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured
content
Sent by: "Framers"   



Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE answer,
period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content anymore,
because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer in a
high-demand environment should be using structured content. If you are
not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to modern
practices.

Having said that, DITA is but one option. Some find answers there,
others do not. There are many ways to structure information and get
significant benefits. Fortunately, you are already using FrameMaker
which is a very flexible structured authoring tool. Take some time to
investigate and see what it has to offer. You would be in much worse
shape if you were using Word or similar.

Also, I have to comment on this one statement:

"I can't stress enough that right now, we need short-term solutions."

This is the quickest path to failure I can think of. All roads to
success involve the long view and much investment. If you won't do this,
nobody here can help you regardless any tools or technologies.

Russ


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This mess

Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-07-28 Thread john . x . posada 
I disagree...you have the tool doing the driving instead of the
requirement.

If I want interesting, I'll go white water rafting. It's mind-sets like
this that cause $10,000.00 projects to get budgeted at $100,00.00

John X Posada
AVP | Global Risk Analytics | HSBC North America Holdings Inc
330 Madison Ave., NY NY

 __ 





 Phone  
 Int: 212-525-5483 Ext: 732-259-2874
 Fax
 Conference Bridge - 877-304-0052, Code 
 74809254   
 Email  
 john.x.pos...@us.hsbc.com  

 __ 
 Protect our environment - please only print this   
 if you have to!






From:   <r...@weststreetconsulting.com>
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Date:   07/28/2016 04:01 PM
Subject:    Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content
Sent by:"Framers"   



Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE answer,
period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content anymore,
because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer in a
high-demand environment should be using structured content. If you are
not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to modern
practices.

Having said that, DITA is but one option. Some find answers there,
others do not. There are many ways to structure information and get
significant benefits. Fortunately, you are already using FrameMaker
which is a very flexible structured authoring tool. Take some time to
investigate and see what it has to offer. You would be in much worse
shape if you were using Word or similar.

Also, I have to comment on this one statement:

"I can't stress enough that right now, we need short-term solutions."

This is the quickest path to failure I can think of. All roads to
success involve the long view and much investment. If you won't do this,
nobody here can help you regardless any tools or technologies.

Russ


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**
This message originated from the Internet. Its originator may or may not be
who they claim to be and the information contained in the message and any
attachments may or may not be accurate.
**




-
**
This E-mail is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. If
you are not the addressee you may not copy, forward, disclose or
use any part of it. If you have received this message in error,
please delete it and all copies from your system and notify the
sender immediately by return E-mail.

Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be timely, secure,
error or virus-free. The sender does not accept liability for any
errors or omissions.
**
SAVE PAPER - THINK BEFORE YOU PRINT!
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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-07-28 Thread Ed Nodland 
I guess you are suggesting that "short term solution" is an oxymoron.
Short term patch, short term fix, but a solution implies long term.  The
use of the words patch or fix,  communicates to the customer that they need
to start thinking long term.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM,  wrote:

> Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE answer,
> period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content anymore,
> because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer in a
> high-demand environment should be using structured content. If you are
> not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to modern
> practices.
>
> Having said that, DITA is but one option. Some find answers there,
> others do not. There are many ways to structure information and get
> significant benefits. Fortunately, you are already using FrameMaker
> which is a very flexible structured authoring tool. Take some time to
> investigate and see what it has to offer. You would be in much worse
> shape if you were using Word or similar.
>
> Also, I have to comment on this one statement:
>
> "I can't stress enough that right now, we need short-term solutions."
>
> This is the quickest path to failure I can think of. All roads to
> success involve the long view and much investment. If you won't do this,
> nobody here can help you regardless any tools or technologies.
>
> Russ
>
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content

2016-07-28 Thread russ 
Pat, I'd like to assert that structured content is generally THE answer,
period. Nothing interesting happens with unstructured content anymore,
because the technology is decades old. Any technical writer in a
high-demand environment should be using structured content. If you are
not, you are now closer to the typewriter than you are to modern
practices.

Having said that, DITA is but one option. Some find answers there,
others do not. There are many ways to structure information and get
significant benefits. Fortunately, you are already using FrameMaker
which is a very flexible structured authoring tool. Take some time to
investigate and see what it has to offer. You would be in much worse
shape if you were using Word or similar.

Also, I have to comment on this one statement:

"I can't stress enough that right now, we need short-term solutions."

This is the quickest path to failure I can think of. All roads to
success involve the long view and much investment. If you won't do this,
nobody here can help you regardless any tools or technologies.

Russ


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[Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content with DITA but I'll ask anyway

2016-07-27 Thread Norton, Michael 
I worked in an environment that sounds somewhat similar to your's for a few 
years. I produced "comprehensive" Release Letters that sometimes reached 300 
pages. Each new feature was discussed in its entirety and I was also the lone 
writer. I argued against that approach, but I did not win that argument and 
given that I was going to remain a lone writer, it proved to be workable.

I tried to write each feature description in a way that would match its target 
book, so after the software and the Release Notes were released, I could fairly 
quickly go back and update the various manuals. It was then mainly a matter of 
cutting and pasting with some minor tweaks. A release might consist of 80 
features and the doc for each could require a paragraph or 20 pages. Each 
feature was documented in a single Frame file and these files were pulled into 
the Release Notes document as insets.

I would identify where the new information would go in the existing doc set 
when I began working on a feature. If the feature was pretty solid, I might 
even go ahead and place it in the target book. Usually, within a month or so of 
the software release, I had the books up-to-date.

This was done in unstructured Frame. There were a total of 60 manuals in the 
doc set, but only 10-15 were typically updated with each release.

Now, being the only writer for 30+ developers, I mainly put out a lot of fires. 
It was hard to do more than make incremental improvements to anything. I did 
consider trying to move to a structured workflow, but given the size of the doc 
set, the workload, and the resources available (me), it just didn't seem 
practical.
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Re: [Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content with DITA but I'll ask anyway (LONG)

2016-07-26 Thread Robert Lauriston 
Take a look at Paligo. It gives you structured authoring (DocBook), a
CMS, and reuse in a single package without having to hire a developer
to build a custom system.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 3:20 PM, Pat Christenson
 wrote:
> I'm the only tech writer in my group. Everyone else is a trainer/presenter 
> (although they do quite a bit of writing).
>
> Our software has numerous components, each on its own release track. At the 
> end of each month, I post extensive release notes on EVERYTHING from the 
> month (written in FrameMaker, distributed as PDF). This is taking a big chunk 
> of time because the preference is for very detailed documentation. 
> Step-by-step, lots of screen shots, and assume the user has never used any of 
> our software before.
>
> This allows the rest of the group to leverage what I write but because it's a 
> monthly release note, all the topics are together in one PDF. It's a pretty 
> safe assumption that none of the users look at it after that month and even 
> if they remember reading about how to use a new feature, they almost 
> certainly don't remember that it was in the February 2016 release notes. Very 
> few people would be willing to open each month's PDF and check the front page 
> for content.
>
> And the cherry on this sundae is all our user guides and help content are 
> very much out-of-date.
>
> I also create a very brief release announcement in HTML that generally 
> describes the new features and directs users to the PDF.
>
>
> My manager has asked me to come up with ideas on how to get more use out of 
> what I'm writing. Some of my ideas are:
>
>
> -  Recognize that these are release notes, not training materials. 
> Assume the reader has a certain level of competence. No more screen shots 
> after almost every step.
>
> -  Update the various product user guides (which would be a 
> gargantuan task, given I'm the only writer) and perhaps pull material from 
> the monthly release notes into each guide as an addendum and appendix.
>
> -  Break the existing release notes in separate docs/books by topic 
> (ad hoc user guide). In the monthly release announcement, link to those.
>
> -  Make a master book of release notes with a TOC and maybe even an 
> index (Lord, where would I find the time?). Even if it's still organized by 
> month, the user would have a way to skim for content.
>
> In the long run, we probably need to get away from the idea of release notes 
> in one document (or in a document at all). We should probably be chunking and 
> tagging material, using a CMS, and single-source this into Help, release 
> notes, etc. But we are a small group with a great deal of legacy 
> documentation. I've been here 6 months (there was no tech writer before-each 
> product team "wrote" its own release notes). Everyone loves that the notes 
> are now well-written and comprehensive, and look polished, but my manager and 
> I both feel that I'm building up more documentation that isn't flexible.
>
> I hope this group may have some ideas. I can't stress enough that right now, 
> we need short-term solutions.
>
> All ideas and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
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[Framers] I'm pretty sure the answer is structured content with DITA but I'll ask anyway (LONG)

2016-07-26 Thread Pat Christenson 
I'm the only tech writer in my group. Everyone else is a trainer/presenter 
(although they do quite a bit of writing).

Our software has numerous components, each on its own release track. At the end 
of each month, I post extensive release notes on EVERYTHING from the month 
(written in FrameMaker, distributed as PDF). This is taking a big chunk of time 
because the preference is for very detailed documentation. Step-by-step, lots 
of screen shots, and assume the user has never used any of our software before.

This allows the rest of the group to leverage what I write but because it's a 
monthly release note, all the topics are together in one PDF. It's a pretty 
safe assumption that none of the users look at it after that month and even if 
they remember reading about how to use a new feature, they almost certainly 
don't remember that it was in the February 2016 release notes. Very few people 
would be willing to open each month's PDF and check the front page for content.

And the cherry on this sundae is all our user guides and help content are very 
much out-of-date.

I also create a very brief release announcement in HTML that generally 
describes the new features and directs users to the PDF.


My manager has asked me to come up with ideas on how to get more use out of 
what I'm writing. Some of my ideas are:


-  Recognize that these are release notes, not training materials. 
Assume the reader has a certain level of competence. No more screen shots after 
almost every step.

-  Update the various product user guides (which would be a gargantuan 
task, given I'm the only writer) and perhaps pull material from the monthly 
release notes into each guide as an addendum and appendix.

-  Break the existing release notes in separate docs/books by topic (ad 
hoc user guide). In the monthly release announcement, link to those.

-  Make a master book of release notes with a TOC and maybe even an 
index (Lord, where would I find the time?). Even if it's still organized by 
month, the user would have a way to skim for content.

In the long run, we probably need to get away from the idea of release notes in 
one document (or in a document at all). We should probably be chunking and 
tagging material, using a CMS, and single-source this into Help, release notes, 
etc. But we are a small group with a great deal of legacy documentation. I've 
been here 6 months (there was no tech writer before-each product team "wrote" 
its own release notes). Everyone loves that the notes are now well-written and 
comprehensive, and look polished, but my manager and I both feel that I'm 
building up more documentation that isn't flexible.

I hope this group may have some ideas. I can't stress enough that right now, we 
need short-term solutions.

All ideas and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Explore complimentary learning 
opportunities

Pat Christenson
Senior Technical Writer, Client Education
Morningstar, Inc.
pat.christen...@morningstar.com

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