Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering

[Peter Gold]

When I was a trainer, I always showed the FM outline template example files
in class, alongside the numbering pane of the paragraph designer. IOW, we
went to the source.

IIRC, web searches for FrameMaker auto numbering find good examples.

HTH

On Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 3:28 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> In addition to Lynne's excellent explanation, I'd like to add that while
> you can leave the trailing placeholders out of your autonumber definitions,
> it is generally recommended that they be used so that you have a visual
> reminder of how many characters are included. This becomes really important
> when you try to set up a single series to handle, for example, heading
> levels, tables, and graphics.
>
> So where she has:
>
>   s: increments and displays the first level and resets the
> > second and third levels to 0
> >   s:. displays the first level without changing it,
> > increments and displays the second level, and resets the third level to 0
> >   s:.. displays the first and second levels without
> > changing them, increments and displays the third level
>
>
> I would use:
>
> s:.< =0>.< =0>
> s:..< =0>
> s:..
>
> The end result is the same, but you now have a visual reminder that there
> are other tags using this series that may require updating.
>
> (And I'm female, btw. Not that it's easy to tell from my name!)
>
> On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 9:58 AM Lynne A. Price 
> wrote:
>
> > Debbie,
> >
> >  Lin's example uses some options in FrameMaker's counter support
> > that you didn't mention in your post:
> >
> > 1. Different sequences. If a paragraph's autonumber starts with a single
> > character followed by a colon, it uses counters that are independent of
> > those in other sequences. One solution in your case would be to use:
> >
> >   x: and x: for numbered items
> >   y: and y: for lettered items
> >
> > I've used the x and y sequences in this example to emphasize that the
> > sequence identifiers are independent of the way you are formatting the
> > counter values. Of course, using n and a (or N and A) is probably more
> > natural.
> >
> > Different sequences can be used for different numbered constructs. For
> > example, you might use one sequence for list numbers and a different one
> > for section numbers.
> >
> > 2. Using multiple levels in one sequence. For example, documents with
> > three levels of sections can use the first counter for main sections,
> > the second for subsections, and the third for subsubsections with
> > autonumbers such as:
> >
> >   s: for main sections
> >   s:. for subsections
> >   s:.. for subsubsections
> >
> > The counter for any level that is not mentioned is reset to 0. Thus,
> >
> >   s: increments and displays the first level and resets the
> > second and third levels to 0
> >   s:. displays the first level without changing it,
> > increments and displays the second level, and resets the third level to 0
> >   s:.. displays the first and second levels without
> > changing them, increments and displays the third level
> >
> > 3. Displaying a counter in different ways. Building blocks indicate the
> > format in which counters are displayed (n for Arabic numerals, a for
> > lowercase letters and so forth), but the counter value depends on how
> > that level of that sequence was set in previous paragraphs and not by
> > how it was displayed previously. It is up to the user to make sure that
> > the same format is used consistently in all paragraphs.
> >
> > One way to "display" a counter is not to show it at all. That's done by
> > using a space instead of a visible character (such as n or a) for the
> > format. Lin is using the L sequence for items in lists with the first
> > level of that sequence for numbered items in the main list and the
> > second level of that sequence for lettered items in numbered lists. So
> > his L:< >\t, where the space between the first pair of angle
> > brackets is important, means to save but not display the value of the
> > first counter level and to increment and display the second level as a
> > letter. Without < >, the autonumber would be referring to the first
> > level and the numbers and letters for both list levels would be confused.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> >  --Lynne
> >
> > On 6/15/2021 5:09 AM, Lin Sims wrote:
> > > These are the contents of my Autonumbers for a similar list. I suspect
> > > you've not got your placeholders set up correctly.
> > >
> > > 1st Level, Reset: L:< =0>\t
> > > 1st Level: L:< =0>\t
> > > 2nd Level, Reset: L:< >\t
> > > 2nd Level: L:< >\t
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 8:11 PM DJ Layton 
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The second part of the numbered list seems to be incrementing the
> > >> ALPHABETIC value rather than the preceding NUMERIC value.
> > >>
> > >> I used the standard , , and ,  building blocks.
> > >> I cannot figure this out!!!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > --
> > Lynne A. Price
> > Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
> > 

Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering

[Lin Sims]

In addition to Lynne's excellent explanation, I'd like to add that while
you can leave the trailing placeholders out of your autonumber definitions,
it is generally recommended that they be used so that you have a visual
reminder of how many characters are included. This becomes really important
when you try to set up a single series to handle, for example, heading
levels, tables, and graphics.

So where she has:

  s: increments and displays the first level and resets the
> second and third levels to 0
>   s:. displays the first level without changing it,
> increments and displays the second level, and resets the third level to 0
>   s:.. displays the first and second levels without
> changing them, increments and displays the third level


I would use:

s:.< =0>.< =0>
s:..< =0>
s:..

The end result is the same, but you now have a visual reminder that there
are other tags using this series that may require updating.

(And I'm female, btw. Not that it's easy to tell from my name!)

On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 9:58 AM Lynne A. Price  wrote:

> Debbie,
>
>  Lin's example uses some options in FrameMaker's counter support
> that you didn't mention in your post:
>
> 1. Different sequences. If a paragraph's autonumber starts with a single
> character followed by a colon, it uses counters that are independent of
> those in other sequences. One solution in your case would be to use:
>
>   x: and x: for numbered items
>   y: and y: for lettered items
>
> I've used the x and y sequences in this example to emphasize that the
> sequence identifiers are independent of the way you are formatting the
> counter values. Of course, using n and a (or N and A) is probably more
> natural.
>
> Different sequences can be used for different numbered constructs. For
> example, you might use one sequence for list numbers and a different one
> for section numbers.
>
> 2. Using multiple levels in one sequence. For example, documents with
> three levels of sections can use the first counter for main sections,
> the second for subsections, and the third for subsubsections with
> autonumbers such as:
>
>   s: for main sections
>   s:. for subsections
>   s:.. for subsubsections
>
> The counter for any level that is not mentioned is reset to 0. Thus,
>
>   s: increments and displays the first level and resets the
> second and third levels to 0
>   s:. displays the first level without changing it,
> increments and displays the second level, and resets the third level to 0
>   s:.. displays the first and second levels without
> changing them, increments and displays the third level
>
> 3. Displaying a counter in different ways. Building blocks indicate the
> format in which counters are displayed (n for Arabic numerals, a for
> lowercase letters and so forth), but the counter value depends on how
> that level of that sequence was set in previous paragraphs and not by
> how it was displayed previously. It is up to the user to make sure that
> the same format is used consistently in all paragraphs.
>
> One way to "display" a counter is not to show it at all. That's done by
> using a space instead of a visible character (such as n or a) for the
> format. Lin is using the L sequence for items in lists with the first
> level of that sequence for numbered items in the main list and the
> second level of that sequence for lettered items in numbered lists. So
> his L:< >\t, where the space between the first pair of angle
> brackets is important, means to save but not display the value of the
> first counter level and to increment and display the second level as a
> letter. Without < >, the autonumber would be referring to the first
> level and the numbers and letters for both list levels would be confused.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>  --Lynne
>
> On 6/15/2021 5:09 AM, Lin Sims wrote:
> > These are the contents of my Autonumbers for a similar list. I suspect
> > you've not got your placeholders set up correctly.
> >
> > 1st Level, Reset: L:< =0>\t
> > 1st Level: L:< =0>\t
> > 2nd Level, Reset: L:< >\t
> > 2nd Level: L:< >\t
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 8:11 PM DJ Layton 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> The second part of the numbered list seems to be incrementing the
> >> ALPHABETIC value rather than the preceding NUMERIC value.
> >>
> >> I used the standard , , and ,  building blocks.
> >> I cannot figure this out!!!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> --
> Lynne A. Price
> Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
> Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development,
> and training
> lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
> voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe 

Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering

[Lynne A. Price]

Debbie,

    Lin's example uses some options in FrameMaker's counter support 
that you didn't mention in your post:


1. Different sequences. If a paragraph's autonumber starts with a single 
character followed by a colon, it uses counters that are independent of 
those in other sequences. One solution in your case would be to use:


 x: and x: for numbered items
 y: and y: for lettered items

I've used the x and y sequences in this example to emphasize that the 
sequence identifiers are independent of the way you are formatting the 
counter values. Of course, using n and a (or N and A) is probably more 
natural.


Different sequences can be used for different numbered constructs. For 
example, you might use one sequence for list numbers and a different one 
for section numbers.


2. Using multiple levels in one sequence. For example, documents with 
three levels of sections can use the first counter for main sections, 
the second for subsections, and the third for subsubsections with 
autonumbers such as:


 s: for main sections
 s:. for subsections
 s:.. for subsubsections

The counter for any level that is not mentioned is reset to 0. Thus,

 s: increments and displays the first level and resets the 
second and third levels to 0
 s:. displays the first level without changing it, 
increments and displays the second level, and resets the third level to 0
 s:.. displays the first and second levels without 
changing them, increments and displays the third level


3. Displaying a counter in different ways. Building blocks indicate the 
format in which counters are displayed (n for Arabic numerals, a for 
lowercase letters and so forth), but the counter value depends on how 
that level of that sequence was set in previous paragraphs and not by 
how it was displayed previously. It is up to the user to make sure that 
the same format is used consistently in all paragraphs.


One way to "display" a counter is not to show it at all. That's done by 
using a space instead of a visible character (such as n or a) for the 
format. Lin is using the L sequence for items in lists with the first 
level of that sequence for numbered items in the main list and the 
second level of that sequence for lettered items in numbered lists. So 
his L:< >\t, where the space between the first pair of angle 
brackets is important, means to save but not display the value of the 
first counter level and to increment and display the second level as a 
letter. Without < >, the autonumber would be referring to the first 
level and the numbers and letters for both list levels would be confused.


Hope this helps,

    --Lynne

On 6/15/2021 5:09 AM, Lin Sims wrote:

These are the contents of my Autonumbers for a similar list. I suspect
you've not got your placeholders set up correctly.

1st Level, Reset: L:< =0>\t
1st Level: L:< =0>\t
2nd Level, Reset: L:< >\t
2nd Level: L:< >\t

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 8:11 PM DJ Layton  wrote:


The second part of the numbered list seems to be incrementing the
ALPHABETIC value rather than the preceding NUMERIC value.

I used the standard , , and ,  building blocks.
I cannot figure this out!!!






--
Lynne A. Price
Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and 
training
lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284

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Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering

[Lin Sims]

If you look closely, you'll see that the building blocks for the numbers
(the "upper" level) are in the first set of brackets and the building block
for the letters (the "lower" level) are in the second set of brackets. This
lets you use the upper level to restart numbering for the lower level and
also "remembers" the value for the upper level to continue it when coming
out of the lower level.

There's an excellent explanation of using a series to control numbering
here:
https://www.rockymountaintraining.com/adobe-framemaker-numbered-headings-continued/

On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 9:37 AM Harding, Dan  wrote:

> Shouldn't the different list levels be different sequences, i.e., 2nd
> level should be a sequence other than L?
>
> -Dan
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 7:09 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering
>
> These are the contents of my Autonumbers for a similar list. I suspect
> you've not got your placeholders set up correctly.
>
> 1st Level, Reset: L:< =0>\t
> 1st Level: L:< =0>\t
> 2nd Level, Reset: L:< >\t
> 2nd Level: L:< >\t
>
> On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 8:11 PM DJ Layton 
> wrote:
>
> > I've been using FrameMaker since 2000, and I am puzzled with the
> > result I'm getting in the 2020 version that I have now.
> >
> > I started a numbered list, and inserted some indented alphabetic
> > sub-items, then returned to the numbered list. I expected to get
> > something like this:
> > 1
> > 2
> > 3
> > a
> > b
> > c
> > d
> > e
> > 4
> > 5
> > 6
> >
> > Instead I got this:
> > 1
> > 2
> > 3
> > a
> > b
> > c
> > d
> > e
> > 6
> > 7
> > 8
> >
> > The second part of the numbered list seems to be incrementing the
> > ALPHABETIC value rather than the preceding NUMERIC value.
> >
> > I used the standard , , and ,  building blocks.
> > I cannot figure this out!!!
> >
> > Can anyone help??
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Debbie in Oregon
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
> > homepage at
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> >
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
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-- 
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Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering

[Harding, Dan]

Shouldn't the different list levels be different sequences, i.e., 2nd level 
should be a sequence other than L?

-Dan
 
 


-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 7:09 AM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering

These are the contents of my Autonumbers for a similar list. I suspect you've 
not got your placeholders set up correctly.

1st Level, Reset: L:< =0>\t
1st Level: L:< =0>\t
2nd Level, Reset: L:< >\t
2nd Level: L:< >\t

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 8:11 PM DJ Layton  wrote:

> I've been using FrameMaker since 2000, and I am puzzled with the 
> result I'm getting in the 2020 version that I have now.
>
> I started a numbered list, and inserted some indented alphabetic 
> sub-items, then returned to the numbered list. I expected to get 
> something like this:
> 1
> 2
> 3
> a
> b
> c
> d
> e
> 4
> 5
> 6
>
> Instead I got this:
> 1
> 2
> 3
> a
> b
> c
> d
> e
> 6
> 7
> 8
>
> The second part of the numbered list seems to be incrementing the 
> ALPHABETIC value rather than the preceding NUMERIC value.
>
> I used the standard , , and ,  building blocks.
> I cannot figure this out!!!
>
> Can anyone help??
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Debbie in Oregon
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's 
> homepage at  
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.frameusers.com__;!!DZ3fjg!qLCZU
> G9V8-7sul6kKn83CEA-pByMGVBoeOsnPWrsXRIoOuaanuM9wU3LpQ9_yn4TJw4$
> Archives located at
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> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
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> WrsXRIoOuaanuM9wU3LpQ9_Q_2EDNw$ Send administrative questions to 
> listad...@frameusers.com
>


--
Lin Sims
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Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering

[Lin Sims]

These are the contents of my Autonumbers for a similar list. I suspect
you've not got your placeholders set up correctly.

1st Level, Reset: L:< =0>\t
1st Level: L:< =0>\t
2nd Level, Reset: L:< >\t
2nd Level: L:< >\t

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 8:11 PM DJ Layton  wrote:

> I've been using FrameMaker since 2000, and I am puzzled with the result
> I'm getting in the 2020 version that I have now.
>
> I started a numbered list, and inserted some indented alphabetic
> sub-items, then returned to the numbered list. I expected to get something
> like this:
> 1
> 2
> 3
> a
> b
> c
> d
> e
> 4
> 5
> 6
>
> Instead I got this:
> 1
> 2
> 3
> a
> b
> c
> d
> e
> 6
> 7
> 8
>
> The second part of the numbered list seems to be incrementing the
> ALPHABETIC value rather than the preceding NUMERIC value.
>
> I used the standard , , and ,  building blocks.
> I cannot figure this out!!!
>
> Can anyone help??
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Debbie in Oregon
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
>


-- 
Lin Sims
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[Framers] Paragraph numbering

[DJ Layton]

I've been using FrameMaker since 2000, and I am puzzled with the result I'm 
getting in the 2020 version that I have now.

I started a numbered list, and inserted some indented alphabetic sub-items, 
then returned to the numbered list. I expected to get something like this:
1
2
3
a
b
c
d
e
4
5
6

Instead I got this:
1
2
3
a
b
c
d
e
6
7
8

The second part of the numbered list seems to be incrementing the ALPHABETIC 
value rather than the preceding NUMERIC value.

I used the standard , , and ,  building blocks.
I cannot figure this out!!!

Can anyone help??

Thanks in advance.
Debbie in Oregon
___

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Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering with embedded return?

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Lin,

If you have to use two paragraph formats, use an "invisible" number on the
Chapter Title paragraph format that picks up the number from the Section
paragraph format. So if Section is  then Chapter Title is . That way
you only have to build a cross reference to the Chapter Title. There are
various ways to make an autonumber invisible. If you need specific help,
send me an email and I can give you some suggestions. Thanks.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
r...@frameexpert.com
585-729-6746 NEW!



-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of Lin Sims
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 2:31 PM
To: Frame Users 
Subject: [Framers] Paragraph numbering with embedded return?

The house style here is that each chapter starts with the following:

Section 
Chapter Title

(These are the only heading-type paragraphs with numbers.)

I am getting mortally tired of having to use two separate cross-references
when referring to a chapter. If I could figure out how to embed a return in
the autonumbering, I could drop a paragraph tag, add an xref tag, and go on
my merry way. I've already tried using \r in the Autonumber builder, but
Frame doesn't like that.

Is this even possible, or am I to remain woeful?

--
Lin Sims
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[Framers] Paragraph numbering with embedded return?

[Lin Sims]

The house style here is that each chapter starts with the following:

Section 
Chapter Title

(These are the only heading-type paragraphs with numbers.)

I am getting mortally tired of having to use two separate cross-references
when referring to a chapter. If I could figure out how to embed a return in
the autonumbering, I could drop a paragraph tag, add an xref tag, and go on
my merry way. I've already tried using \r in the Autonumber builder, but
Frame doesn't like that.

Is this even possible, or am I to remain woeful?

-- 
Lin Sims
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Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering...

[Urszula Witherell]

No... I just need to control the numbering of paragraphs starting point. That is
all.
 
Thanks very much for everyone's help. Sometimes it is easy not to see the
obvious. It was my turn today.
Urszula
 
 

> On February 4, 2016 at 11:01 AM Tim Pann <tp...@telecomsys.com> wrote:
>
>
> Would you then be safest naming this paragraph tag "step 17" or whatever to
> isolate it from any override resets?
>
> 
> From: Framers [framers-bounces+tpann=telecomsys@lists.frameusers.com] on
> behalf of Monique Semp [monique.s...@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 7:58 AM
> To: Bernard Aschwanden (Publishing Smarter); 'Urszula Witherell'; 'Framers'
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering...
>
> > One approach is to use the code 

Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering...

[Syed Zaeem Hosain]

In general, yes, as Monique mentioned ... 

Z

> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-
> bounces+syed.hosain=aeris@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Pann
> Sent: Thursday, February 4, 2016 08:01 AM
> To: Monique Semp <monique.s...@earthlink.net>; Bernard Aschwanden
> (Publishing Smarter) <bern...@publishingsmarter.com>; 'Urszula Witherell'
> <urszulawither...@jetsetcom.net>; 'Framers'
> <framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering...
> 
> Would you then be safest naming this paragraph tag "step 17" or whatever to
> isolate it from any override resets?
> 
> 
> From: Framers [framers-
> bounces+tpann=telecomsys@lists.frameusers.com] on behalf of
> Monique Semp [monique.s...@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 7:58 AM
> To: Bernard Aschwanden (Publishing Smarter); 'Urszula Witherell'; 'Framers'
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering...
> 
> > One approach is to use the code 

Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering...

[Bernard Aschwanden (Publishing Smarter)]

One approach is to use the code

Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering...

[Monique Semp]

One approach is to use the code 

Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering...

[Urszula Witherell]

Thanks very much Bernard and Rick,
 
Very simple.. works perfectly.
 
 
 
 

> On February 4, 2016 at 10:55 AM "Bernard Aschwanden (Publishing Smarter)"
>  wrote:
>
>
> One approach is to use the code
>
> 

Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering...

[Tim Pann]

Would you then be safest naming this paragraph tag "step 17" or whatever to 
isolate it from any override resets?


From: Framers [framers-bounces+tpann=telecomsys@lists.frameusers.com] on 
behalf of Monique Semp [monique.s...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 7:58 AM
To: Bernard Aschwanden (Publishing Smarter); 'Urszula Witherell'; 'Framers'
Subject: Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering...

> One approach is to use the code 

[Framers] Paragraph numbering...

[Urszula Witherell]

Hi Everyone,
 
In a number of documents I have to start a paragraph numbering in a document
with a very specific paragraph number. Is there a way to do that?
 
>From what I can see, FrameMaker only allows to specify volume, chapter, 
>section,
sub-section and page numbering to begin at a specific number, but not a
paragraph... 
 
I will appreciate any help.
 
Urszula
 
--
Urszula Witherell | JetSet Communications, Inc.
Certified Technical Trainer (CompTIA)
cell: 301.524.3165 www.jetsetcom.net | www.trainingonsite.com
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