Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
Am 04.08.2010 um 07:51 schrieb Steve Johnson: And all the people who report bugs with Frame 9 are lying? Steve, No, they aren't. But some perceived bugs are (only) limitations of the software. Have they finally fixed the issue where you can't use cross-reference in text insets? This is a limitation due to the architecture of the software (which serves us well in many other places). Cross-references are created between files and each file might be used multiple times as a text inset. A cross-reference from or into a text inset might appear multiple times. It is possible to handle this in a finishing step, just before going to PDF/print. I did this using API programming. Have they fixed text insets so they don't bleed into the following paragraph? Please insert a non-breaking space between your text inset insertion point and the end of the receiving paragraph. Ah, not to worry. As long as the pods are up all is well in the world. That is your opinion. Others think that all is well (=speedy) if all pods are closed. ;-) - Michael ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
And all the people who report bugs with Frame 9 are lying? Steve, No, they aren't. But some perceived bugs are (only) limitations of the software. Right on, Michael. And likewise, some limitations are only roadblocks for a select few. I try to look for alternative solutions whenever possible. If you get creative with your authoring approach you can handle most anything, and for everything else there's the API and wonderful tools like FrameScript and IXGen. Ah, not to worry. As long as the pods are up all is well in the world. That is your opinion. Others think that all is well (=speedy) if all pods are closed. ;-) I think many of us who have been using FM for 10 years or more would agree with that. ;-) It's nice that Adobe made Framemaker all ooh shiny to attract new customers, but me... I'd rather just get my work done. I could do that with older versions because I only had to learn to use it once. This new IDE-ish pod environment is constantly tripping me up. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the pod approach. I've learned many new products that use it. But when I've used the same tool the same way for more than 12 years, it's quite disorienting to have the UI completely change. It's like coming home from vacation to find someone completely gutted your house, built a new layout, and refurnished the whole thing. Good luck finding the WC! -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0
Bill says: If you get creative with your authoring approach you can handle most anything, and for everything else there's the API and wonderful tools like FrameScript and IXGen. If you have found a way to control pods and windows via the FDK, please let me know! I'm desperate! cud ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RANT: FM 9.0 -
Am 04.08.2010 um 07:51 schrieb Steve Johnson: > And all the people who report bugs with Frame 9 are lying? Steve, No, they aren't. But some perceived bugs are (only) limitations of the software. > Have they finally fixed the issue where you can't use cross-reference in text > insets? This is a limitation due to the architecture of the software (which serves us well in many other places). Cross-references are created between files and each file might be used multiple times as a text inset. A cross-reference from or into a text inset might appear multiple times. It is possible to handle this in a finishing step, just before going to PDF/print. I did this using API programming. > Have they fixed text insets so they don't bleed into the following paragraph? Please insert a non-breaking space between your text inset insertion point and the end of the receiving paragraph. > Ah, not to worry. As long as the pods are up all is well in the world. That is your opinion. Others think that all is well (=speedy) if all pods are closed. ;-) - Michael
RANT: FM 9.0 -
>> And all the people who report bugs with Frame 9 are lying? > > Steve, No, they aren't. But some perceived bugs are (only) limitations of the > software. Right on, Michael. And likewise, some limitations are only roadblocks for a select few. I try to look for alternative solutions whenever possible. If you get creative with your authoring approach you can handle most anything, and for everything else there's the API and wonderful tools like FrameScript and IXGen. >> Ah, not to worry. As long as the pods are up all is well in the world. > > That is your opinion. Others think that all is well (=speedy) if all pods are > closed. ;-) I think many of us who have been using FM for 10 years or more would agree with that. ;-) It's nice that Adobe made Framemaker all "ooh shiny" to attract new customers, but me... I'd rather just get my work done. I could do that with older versions because I only had to learn to use it once. This new IDE-ish pod environment is constantly tripping me up. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the pod approach. I've learned many new products that use it. But when I've used the same tool the same way for more than 12 years, it's quite disorienting to have the UI completely change. It's like coming home from vacation to find someone completely gutted your house, built a new layout, and refurnished the whole thing. Good luck finding the WC! -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
RANT: FM 9.0
Bill says: >If you get creative with your authoring approach you can >handle most anything, and for everything else there's the API and >wonderful tools like FrameScript and IXGen. If you have found a way to control pods and windows via the FDK, please let me know! I'm desperate! cud
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
And all the people who report bugs with Frame 9 are lying? Have they finally fixed the issue where you can't use cross-reference in text insets? Have they fixed text insets so they don't bleed into the following paragraph? Ah, not to worry. As long as the pods are up all is well in the world. On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Mike Wickham i...@mikewickham.com wrote: You should post this where it has a chance of doing some good, on the Adobe forum. My understanding is that Frame 9 was developed entirely overseas, safely away from anyone who might give them adverse but useful feedback. It's a big company thing to do: play up the window dressing without fussing too much with anything else. I wouldn't call it window dressing. I work with a lot of graphics in my documents. The Anchored Frame dialog, Object Properties, Runaround Properties other other dialogue boxes can now stay on screen for easy access. The Inset pod lists all graphics in a document and makes it easy to jump to them. There's also a Fonts pod that lists fonts in a document and makes it easy to substitute different fonts. You can set up workspaces that display only the panels/pods you want and change workspaces with a click. And more. I sure wouldn't besmirch the gang in India for their work on FM. Look at all the changes they've made in versions 8.0 and 9.0.-- like Unicode, for starters. Compared to when development was in the U.S., you can see things happening. I've been using FM since version 6.0. Versions 7.0, 7.1, and 7.2 were so little different that few upgraded. If you didn't use DITA, there wasn't much sense in it. And when we've reported bugs, the Indian gang has actually responded, worked with us, and fixed most of them. They've been quiet lately. No doubt they've been busy reading the next new version. Based on past cycles, it's due out anytime. I look forward to it. Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_go...@pobox.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Steve Johnson, dr_go...@pobox.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
And all the people who report bugs with Frame 9 are lying? Lying? Who called anyone a liar? I didn't even say that FM9 was bug free. It isn't. I merely commented that the FM team has made real changes that all users can take advantage of, rather than minor changes useful to only the DITA crowd. Have they finally fixed the issue where you can't use cross-reference in text insets? I don't use text insets, so I'm not sure which issue you mention. There is a known issue, where cross-references to text insets don't update, UNLESS you first create the cross-ref marker in the inset SOURCE file. The correct procedure to prevent this is in FM Help: === Insert a cross-reference to a paragraph in a text inset If you insert a paragraph cross-reference to a text inset, the cross-reference marker is sometimes lost when the text inset is updated. To prevent the marker from being lost, first insert a cross-reference to the paragraph in the text inset's source document. 1. Open the source of the inset by double-clicking the inset and then clicking Open Source from the Text Inset Properties panel. 2. Insert a cross-reference to the paragraph anywhere in the source document. 3. Delete the cross-reference text. The marker remains. 4. Save the source document, and then in the document that contains the text inset, update the text inset by choosing Edit Update References. 5. Insert a spot cross-reference, this time in the document that contains the inset. The cross-reference uses the marker in the updated inset. === Have they fixed text insets so they don't bleed into the following paragraph? Again, I'm not sure what you mean, but is this the well-known issue where a paragraph format carries over to the next paragraph if an inset anchor buts up against the trailing paragraph mark? That is solved simply by putting a space between the inset anchor and the trailing paragraph mark. Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
Sorry, I'm retransmitting this for clarity because some of my text was inadvertently set as quoteback of another person's message, instead of as my own. I'm not sure what happened. And all the people who report bugs with Frame 9 are lying? Lying? Who called anyone a liar? I didn't even say that FM9 was bug free. It isn't. I merely commented that the FM team has made real changes that all users can take advantage of, rather than minor changes useful to only the DITA crowd. Have they finally fixed the issue where you can't use cross-reference in text insets? I don't use text insets, so I'm not sure which issue you mention. There is a known issue, where cross-references to text insets don't update, UNLESS you first create the cross-ref marker in the inset SOURCE file. The correct procedure to prevent this is in FM Help: === Insert a cross-reference to a paragraph in a text inset If you insert a paragraph cross-reference to a text inset, the cross-reference marker is sometimes lost when the text inset is updated. To prevent the marker from being lost, first insert a cross-reference to the paragraph in the text inset's source document. 1. Open the source of the inset by double-clicking the inset and then clicking Open Source from the Text Inset Properties panel. 2. Insert a cross-reference to the paragraph anywhere in the source document. 3. Delete the cross-reference text. The marker remains. 4. Save the source document, and then in the document that contains the text inset, update the text inset by choosing Edit Update References. 5. Insert a spot cross-reference, this time in the document that contains the inset. The cross-reference uses the marker in the updated inset. === Have they fixed text insets so they don't bleed into the following paragraph? Again, I'm not sure what you mean, but is this the well-known issue where a paragraph format carries over to the next paragraph if an inset anchor buts up against the trailing paragraph mark? That is solved simply by putting a space between the inset anchor and the trailing paragraph mark. Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: RANT: FM 9.0
My fundamental problem is that the new windowing model isn't properly exposed in the API. Also, it has some problems. Open a book, then open all files in book. Especially if it has many files, you get funny results -- the document windows nest within each other. I've raised this issue a number of times, and nobody seems to notice. I can't be the only person experiencing it. And forget about using Maker documents as a GUI for your plugins. There's just not enough control. I think the plan is that you're supposed to have all windows fully expanded so it looks more like an IDE (or RoboHelp). I guess that's cool, but you often want to see docs side by side so you can copy/paste between them. I suspect the GUI changes were made by formula, rather than using a real design process based on: * User Profiles * Problem Statements * Use Cases * Feature Design It would be interesting to know how many authors want to work in a system that behaves like a coding IDE. It would be interesting to know how many separate use cases the new GUI explicitly addresses. Or how many problems it fixes. In short, what *are* the wins for this new GUI, compared to the cost? It could well be that the new GUI is well worth it, and I'm just an old fart. OTOH, if the plan was to just make it look like other Adobe products without any underlying design, then it's not surprising that legacy users can't find logic behind the new look and feel. Most other Adobe products are designed for things other than text. I Iguess I need to work with the ID GUI before I make any more pronouncements... cud ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RANT: FM 9.0 -
Yo, On 4/08/2010, at 6:59 AM, Fred Ridder wrote: >> > Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating > toolbars and dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only > small changes to the original circa 1990 user interface that they > bought from Frame Technologies in 1995, and many people had > complained that the UI didn't look sufficiently Adobe-like. The fact > that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that looks and acts similarly to > Adobe's flagship apps should be a great benefit to the minuscule > handful of new users who come to FrameMaker from tools like > Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, but its value to experienced > FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable. Which is why, after testing 9 I am still using 7. On 4/08/2010, at 7:54 AM, Bill Swallow wrote: > The tool should not > get in the way of the task for which it was designed. > But of course it should, otherwise you might forget that you are using an *Adobe Product*. :P Lightly Alan -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 141, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice
RANT: FM 9.0 -
> You should post this where it has a chance of doing some good, on the > Adobe forum. My understanding is that Frame 9 was developed entirely > overseas, safely away from anyone who might give them adverse but > useful feedback. > It's a big company thing to do: play up the window dressing without > fussing too much with anything else. I wouldn't call it window dressing. I work with a lot of graphics in my documents. The Anchored Frame dialog, Object Properties, Runaround Properties other other dialogue boxes can now stay on screen for easy access. The Inset pod lists all graphics in a document and makes it easy to jump to them. There's also a Fonts pod that lists fonts in a document and makes it easy to substitute different fonts. You can set up workspaces that display only the panels/pods you want and change workspaces with a click. And more. I sure wouldn't besmirch the gang in India for their work on FM. Look at all the changes they've made in versions 8.0 and 9.0.-- like Unicode, for starters. Compared to when development was in the U.S., you can see things happening. I've been using FM since version 6.0. Versions 7.0, 7.1, and 7.2 were so little different that few upgraded. If you didn't use DITA, there wasn't much sense in it. And when we've reported bugs, the Indian gang has actually responded, worked with us, and fixed most of them. They've been quiet lately. No doubt they've been busy reading the next new version. Based on past cycles, it's due out anytime. I look forward to it. Mike Wickham
RANT: FM 9.0 -
> And all the people who report bugs with Frame 9 are lying? Lying? Who > called anyone a liar? I didn't even say that FM9 was bug free. It isn't. I > merely commented that the FM team has made real changes that all users can > take advantage of, rather than minor changes useful to only the DITA > crowd. >Have they finally fixed the issue where you can't use cross-reference in >text insets? I don't use text insets, so I'm not sure which issue you mention. There is a known issue, where cross-references to text insets don't update, UNLESS you first create the cross-ref marker in the inset SOURCE file. The correct procedure to prevent this is in FM Help: === Insert a cross-reference to a paragraph in a text inset If you insert a paragraph cross-reference to a text inset, the cross-reference marker is sometimes lost when the text inset is updated. To prevent the marker from being lost, first insert a cross-reference to the paragraph in the text inset's source document. 1. Open the source of the inset by double-clicking the inset and then clicking Open Source from the Text Inset Properties panel. 2. Insert a cross-reference to the paragraph anywhere in the source document. 3. Delete the cross-reference text. The marker remains. 4. Save the source document, and then in the document that contains the text inset, update the text inset by choosing Edit > Update References. 5. Insert a spot cross-reference, this time in the document that contains the inset. The cross-reference uses the marker in the updated inset. === > Have they fixed text insets so they don't bleed into the following > paragraph? Again, I'm not sure what you mean, but is this the well-known issue where a paragraph format carries over to the next paragraph if an inset anchor buts up against the trailing paragraph mark? That is solved simply by putting a space between the inset anchor and the trailing paragraph mark. Mike Wickham
RANT: FM 9.0 -
Sorry, I'm retransmitting this for clarity because some of my text was inadvertently set as quoteback of another person's message, instead of as my own. I'm not sure what happened. > And all the people who report bugs with Frame 9 are lying? Lying? Who called anyone a liar? I didn't even say that FM9 was bug free. It isn't. I merely commented that the FM team has made real changes that all users can take advantage of, rather than minor changes useful to only the DITA crowd. >Have they finally fixed the issue where you can't use cross-reference in >text insets? I don't use text insets, so I'm not sure which issue you mention. There is a known issue, where cross-references to text insets don't update, UNLESS you first create the cross-ref marker in the inset SOURCE file. The correct procedure to prevent this is in FM Help: === Insert a cross-reference to a paragraph in a text inset If you insert a paragraph cross-reference to a text inset, the cross-reference marker is sometimes lost when the text inset is updated. To prevent the marker from being lost, first insert a cross-reference to the paragraph in the text inset's source document. 1. Open the source of the inset by double-clicking the inset and then clicking Open Source from the Text Inset Properties panel. 2. Insert a cross-reference to the paragraph anywhere in the source document. 3. Delete the cross-reference text. The marker remains. 4. Save the source document, and then in the document that contains the text inset, update the text inset by choosing Edit > Update References. 5. Insert a spot cross-reference, this time in the document that contains the inset. The cross-reference uses the marker in the updated inset. === > Have they fixed text insets so they don't bleed into the following > paragraph? Again, I'm not sure what you mean, but is this the well-known issue where a paragraph format carries over to the next paragraph if an inset anchor buts up against the trailing paragraph mark? That is solved simply by putting a space between the inset anchor and the trailing paragraph mark. Mike Wickham
RANT: FM 9.0
My fundamental problem is that the new windowing model isn't properly exposed in the API. Also, it has some problems. Open a book, then open all files in book. Especially if it has many files, you get funny results -- the document windows nest within each other. I've raised this issue a number of times, and nobody seems to notice. I can't be the only person experiencing it. And forget about using Maker documents as a GUI for your plugins. There's just not enough control. I think the plan is that you're supposed to have all windows fully expanded so it looks more like an IDE (or RoboHelp). I guess that's cool, but you often want to see docs side by side so you can copy/paste between them. I suspect the GUI changes were made by formula, rather than using a real design process based on: * User Profiles * Problem Statements * Use Cases * Feature Design It would be interesting to know how many authors want to work in a system that behaves like a coding IDE. It would be interesting to know how many separate use cases the new GUI explicitly addresses. Or how many problems it fixes. In short, what *are* the wins for this new GUI, compared to the cost? It could well be that the new GUI is well worth it, and I'm just an old fart. OTOH, if the plan was to just "make it look like other Adobe products" without any underlying design, then it's not surprising that legacy users can't find logic behind the new look and feel. Most other Adobe products are designed for things other than text. I Iguess I need to work with the ID GUI before I make any more pronouncements... cud
RANT: FM 9.0 -
And all the people who report bugs with Frame 9 are lying? Have they finally fixed the issue where you can't use cross-reference in text insets? Have they fixed text insets so they don't bleed into the following paragraph? Ah, not to worry. As long as the pods are up all is well in the world. On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Mike Wickham wrote: >> You should post this where it has a chance of doing some good, on the >> Adobe forum. My understanding is that Frame 9 was developed entirely >> overseas, safely away from anyone who might give them adverse but >> useful feedback. > >> It's a big company thing to do: play up the window dressing without >> fussing too much with anything else. > > I wouldn't call it window dressing. I work with a lot of graphics in my > documents. The Anchored Frame dialog, Object Properties, Runaround > Properties other other dialogue boxes can now stay on screen for easy > access. The Inset pod lists all graphics in a document and makes it easy to > jump to them. There's also a Fonts pod that lists fonts in a document and > makes it easy to substitute different fonts. You can set up workspaces that > display only the panels/pods you want and change workspaces with a click. > And more. > > I sure wouldn't besmirch the gang in India for their work on FM. Look at all > the changes they've made in versions 8.0 and 9.0.-- like Unicode, for > starters. ?Compared to when development was in the U.S., you can see things > happening. I've been using FM since version 6.0. Versions 7.0, 7.1, and 7.2 > were so little different that few upgraded. If you didn't use DITA, there > wasn't much sense in it. And when we've reported bugs, the Indian gang has > actually responded, worked with us, and fixed most of them. They've been > quiet lately. No doubt they've been busy reading the next new version. Based > on past cycles, it's due out anytime. I look forward to it. > > Mike Wickham > > > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_gonzo at pobox.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > -- Steve Johnson, dr_gonzo at pobox.com
RANT: FM 9.0 -
This is a long mail Hello, I have just migrated to FM 9.0 yesterday and IMHO, am finding the UI a pain to use. Some of the issues that I am having are: 1. When using structured interface, using F8 to select a character style creates a new element of the same type at the point where the style has to be applied. 2. When using F8 to apply the Default Format in FM8, we just used to select F8 and then press the Enter key. This is not possible in FM9 as there is an entry Not Applicable as the first entry in all the lists. 3. Dialogs persist and do not behave as required. For example, take the Anchored Frame dialog. When I want to insert an image in my document, I use an element Image. This by default inserts an anchored frame and the Anchored Frame dialog box is displayed. However, when I click the New Frame button in the dialog, the frame is inserted but the dialog box changes to the edit mode and retains the focus. My definition of the Image element inserts the Image Title element below the image when I press the Enter button again. This action is now gone for a toss as I have to close this persistent dialog to get focus back to the document. This has slowed me down considerably as I work mostly with the keyboard. My question is Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do not want the Not Applicable element as the first in any selectable list. IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit of a chore to use it. Regards, Venkatesh Parthasarathy, Senior Technical Writer. -- --- First Do No Harm --- ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do not want the Not Applicable element as the first in any selectable list. I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade through maker.ini and see if there's anything in there that can be changed. IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit of a chore to use it. I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM for roughly 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time to poke through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head around the UI for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which selections need to be made in the UI in order for things to stick). Granted I was in the UI changes are not necessary camp from the beginning - because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have been - but I think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not enough time was spent use testing with veteran users. Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to completely relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same logic, keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be maintained. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: RANT: FM 9.0 -
Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a dancing paper clip? We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve. Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend? Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM To: Venkat; Bill Swallow Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it. Nadine --- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow techcommd...@gmail.com wrote: From: Bill Swallow techcommd...@gmail.com Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - To: Venkat venkat.par...@gmail.com Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do not want the Not Applicable element as the first in any selectable list. I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade through maker.ini and see if there's anything in there that can be changed. IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit of a chore to use it. I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM for roughly 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time to poke through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head around the UI for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which selections need to be made in the UI in order for things to stick). Granted I was in the UI changes are not necessary camp from the beginning - because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have been - but I think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not enough time was spent use testing with veteran users. Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to completely relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same logic, keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be maintained. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.c a Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. 5o ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as darren.butler@robins.af.mil. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/darren.butler.ctr%40 robins.af.mil Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
By menu-to-ribbon, are you referring to Word? If yes, click on this link, then click Start the guide: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/interactive-word-2003-to-word-2007-command-reference-guide-HA010074432.aspx Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 03-Aug-10 6:50 PM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB wrote: Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a dancing paper clip? We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve. Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend? Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM To: Venkat; Bill Swallow Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it. Nadine --- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallowtechcommd...@gmail.com wrote: From: Bill Swallowtechcommd...@gmail.com Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - To: Venkatvenkat.par...@gmail.com Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do not want the Not Applicable element as the first in any selectable list. I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade through maker.ini and see if there's anything in there that can be changed. IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit of a chore to use it. I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM for roughly 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time to poke through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head around the UI for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which selections need to be made in the UI in order for things to stick). Granted I was in the UI changes are not necessary camp from the beginning - because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have been - but I think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not enough time was spent use testing with veteran users. Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to completely relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same logic, keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be maintained. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.c a Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. 5o ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as darren.butler@robins.af.mil. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/darren.butler.ctr%40 robins.af.mil Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shmue...@gmail.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: RANT: FM 9.0 -
I was actually referring to FM but thanks for the Microsoft link. Ribbons are for typewriters not software. -Original Message- From: Shmuel Wolfson [mailto:shmue...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:06 PM To: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - By menu-to-ribbon, are you referring to Word? If yes, click on this link, then click Start the guide: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/interactive-word-2003-to-wor d-2007-command-reference-guide-HA010074432.aspx Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 03-Aug-10 6:50 PM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB wrote: Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a dancing paper clip? We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve. Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend? Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM To: Venkat; Bill Swallow Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it. Nadine --- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallowtechcommd...@gmail.com wrote: From: Bill Swallowtechcommd...@gmail.com Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - To: Venkatvenkat.par...@gmail.com Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do not want the Not Applicable element as the first in any selectable list. I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade through maker.ini and see if there's anything in there that can be changed. IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit of a chore to use it. I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM for roughly 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time to poke through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head around the UI for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which selections need to be made in the UI in order for things to stick). Granted I was in the UI changes are not necessary camp from the beginning - because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have been - but I think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not enough time was spent use testing with veteran users. Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to completely relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same logic, keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be maintained. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as generic...@yahoo.ca. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.c a Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. 5o ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as darren.butler@robins.af.mil. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/darren.butler.ctr%40 robins.af.mil Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shmue...@gmail.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources
RE: RANT: FM 9.0 -
And speaking as a 40-mumbley-aged person, the contrast of the black text on the grey interface sucks, even with my reading glasses. I hate playing with all the pods that fly about. I don't like the focus changing unexpectedly, I just dislike having to pay so much attention to my interface, as it takes away from authoring effort and breaks my concentration. In general, I really dislike the new interface. It doesn't look like a Windows app and it's hard to use. sharon Sharon Burton Content Consultant www.anthrobytes.com 951-369-8590 IM: sharonvbur...@yahoo.com Twitter: sharonburton Blog:anthrobytes.wordpress.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonvburton Darren Butler wrote: Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a dancing paper clip? We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve. Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend? Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. [snip] Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating toolbars and dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only small changes to the original circa 1990 user interface that they bought from Frame Technologies in 1995, and many people had complained that the UI didn't look sufficiently Adobe-like. The fact that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that looks and acts similarly to Adobe's flagship apps should be a great benefit to the minuscule handful of new users who come to FrameMaker from tools like Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, but its value to experienced FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable. -Fred Ridder ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as sha...@anthrobytes.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/sharon%40anthrobytes.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
I wouldn't say it's hard to use, but it certainly is difficult to use efficiently. As you say, pods are everywhere. I am constantly hiding and changing the docking location for ones I use regularly because they are always in the way of the authoring area. The tool should not get in the way of the task for which it was designed. And yes, the lack of contrast in the UI itself makes the UI a bit difficult to stare at and read, but that appears to be an Adobe thing because RoboHelp is the same way, only brighter. On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Sharon Burton sha...@anthrobytes.com wrote: And speaking as a 40-mumbley-aged person, the contrast of the black text on the grey interface sucks, even with my reading glasses. I hate playing with all the pods that fly about. I don't like the focus changing unexpectedly, I just dislike having to pay so much attention to my interface, as it takes away from authoring effort and breaks my concentration. In general, I really dislike the new interface. It doesn't look like a Windows app and it's hard to use. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
Speaking as a newbie, but also more than 40 years old, I really like the interface. The black on gray makes the menus and such usable but unobtrusive, and I like the fact that I can control the illumination. It's still hard to learn (I made a few stabs with FM8), but seems much improved to me. I have no history of prior use, and therefore no memories of key commands, etc. Maybe they designed 9 to accommodate new users better. Jack DeLand ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: RANT: FM 9.0 -
Hi Fred- okay.but.Adobe FM started out looking similar to a windows app, then when windows changed its' UI, FM changed also - coincidence?!!? Well, we were test driving FM9 about the same time as Word 2007 (both by force). The frustration level was interchangeable betwixt the two application UIs. True, the new FM UI isn't a ribbon but both are feeble attempts (IMHO) to get cute with the interface. To me it's the equivalent of New Coke, KISS when they stopped wearing makeup and costumes, and middle-aged Caucasian pop stars who start dressing like they came from *da'hood* - COMPLETELY unnecessary, and a very distasteful experience. Hopefully Adobe has gotten this out of their system and can now turn their attention to more serious FM improvements, like the ones clamored-for on this list. It's interesting to me that both Adobe and MS used we want it appeal to new users as a reason to change the UI of a well-loved, well-used product. I've been using FM since version 5 was in diapers and I, myself, have never heard anyone opine that FM just wasn't Adobe-like The only consistent rant I've heard over the years is multiple undo, multiple undo, multiple undo, multiple undo. I must run with the low brow set of FM users ;^) You might be right, but I still contend that Adobe just wanted to be trendy. Maybe I just fear change. -DJ -Original Message- From: Fred Ridder [mailto:docu...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:59 PM To: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB; generic...@yahoo.ca; venkat.par...@gmail.com; techcommd...@gmail.com Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: RANT: FM 9.0 - Darren Butler wrote: Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a dancing paper clip? We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve. Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend? Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. Adobe *didn't* emulate Microsoft, and what they came up with is *not* a ribbon UI like MS Office has. Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating toolbars and dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only small changes to the original circa 1990 user interface that they bought from Frame Technologies in 1995, and many people had complained that the UI didn't look sufficiently Adobe-like. The fact that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that looks and acts similarly to Adobe's flagship apps should be a great benefit to the minuscule handful of new users who come to FrameMaker from tools like Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, but its value to experienced FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable. -Fred Ridder ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
Yo, On 4/08/2010, at 6:59 AM, Fred Ridder wrote: Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating toolbars and dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only small changes to the original circa 1990 user interface that they bought from Frame Technologies in 1995, and many people had complained that the UI didn't look sufficiently Adobe-like. The fact that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that looks and acts similarly to Adobe's flagship apps should be a great benefit to the minuscule handful of new users who come to FrameMaker from tools like Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, but its value to experienced FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable. Which is why, after testing 9 I am still using 7. On 4/08/2010, at 7:54 AM, Bill Swallow wrote: The tool should not get in the way of the task for which it was designed. But of course it should, otherwise you might forget that you are using an *Adobe Product*. :P Lightly Alan -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 141, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
I'll buy that argument, but some consideration for those using it even before the Adobe years would have been nice. On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:03 PM, jdela...@comcast.net wrote: Maybe they designed 9 to accommodate new users better. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
And yes, the lack of contrast in the UI itself makes the UI a bit difficult to stare at and read, but that appears to be an Adobe thing because RoboHelp is the same way, only brighter. There is some adjustment that's possible: File Preferences Interface UI Brightness. There is also a third party plugin that colors the icons (like the old style) in the toolbar at: http://www.daube.ch/docu/fmaker55.html. Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
You should post this where it has a chance of doing some good, on the Adobe forum. My understanding is that Frame 9 was developed entirely overseas, safely away from anyone who might give them adverse but useful feedback. It's a big company thing to do: play up the window dressing without fussing too much with anything else. On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:00 AM, Venkat venkat.par...@gmail.com wrote: This is a long mail Hello, I have just migrated to FM 9.0 yesterday and IMHO, am finding the UI a pain to use. Some of the issues that I am having are: 1. When using structured interface, using F8 to select a character style creates a new element of the same type at the point where the style has to be applied. 2. When using F8 to apply the Default Format in FM8, we just used to select F8 and then press the Enter key. This is not possible in FM9 as there is an entry Not Applicable as the first entry in all the lists. 3. Dialogs persist and do not behave as required. For example, take the Anchored Frame dialog. When I want to insert an image in my document, I use an element Image. This by default inserts an anchored frame and the Anchored Frame dialog box is displayed. However, when I click the New Frame button in the dialog, the frame is inserted but the dialog box changes to the edit mode and retains the focus. My definition of the Image element inserts the Image Title element below the image when I press the Enter button again. This action is now gone for a toss as I have to close this persistent dialog to get focus back to the document. This has slowed me down considerably as I work mostly with the keyboard. My question is Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do not want the Not Applicable element as the first in any selectable list. IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit of a chore to use it. Regards, Venkatesh Parthasarathy, Senior Technical Writer. -- --- First Do No Harm --- ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_go...@pobox.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Steve Johnson, dr_go...@pobox.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: RANT: FM 9.0 -
You should post this where it has a chance of doing some good, on the Adobe forum. My understanding is that Frame 9 was developed entirely overseas, safely away from anyone who might give them adverse but useful feedback. It's a big company thing to do: play up the window dressing without fussing too much with anything else. I wouldn't call it window dressing. I work with a lot of graphics in my documents. The Anchored Frame dialog, Object Properties, Runaround Properties other other dialogue boxes can now stay on screen for easy access. The Inset pod lists all graphics in a document and makes it easy to jump to them. There's also a Fonts pod that lists fonts in a document and makes it easy to substitute different fonts. You can set up workspaces that display only the panels/pods you want and change workspaces with a click. And more. I sure wouldn't besmirch the gang in India for their work on FM. Look at all the changes they've made in versions 8.0 and 9.0.-- like Unicode, for starters. Compared to when development was in the U.S., you can see things happening. I've been using FM since version 6.0. Versions 7.0, 7.1, and 7.2 were so little different that few upgraded. If you didn't use DITA, there wasn't much sense in it. And when we've reported bugs, the Indian gang has actually responded, worked with us, and fixed most of them. They've been quiet lately. No doubt they've been busy reading the next new version. Based on past cycles, it's due out anytime. I look forward to it. Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to fram...@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RANT: FM 9.0 -
Hello, I have just migrated to FM 9.0 yesterday and IMHO, am finding the UI a pain to use. Some of the issues that I am having are: 1. When using structured interface, using F8 to select a character style creates a new element of the same type at the point where the style has to be applied. 2. When using F8 to apply the Default Format in FM8, we just used to select F8 and then press the key. This is not possible in FM9 as there is an entry "Not Applicable" as the first entry in all the lists. 3. Dialogs persist and do not behave as required. For example, take the "Anchored Frame" dialog. When I want to insert an image in my document, I use an element "Image". This by default inserts an anchored frame and the "Anchored Frame" dialog box is displayed. However, when I click the button in the dialog, the frame is inserted but the dialog box changes to the edit mode and retains the focus. My definition of the "Image" element inserts the "Image Title" element below the image when I press the button again. This action is now gone for a toss as I have to close this persistent dialog to get focus back to the document. This has slowed me down considerably as I work mostly with the keyboard. My question is Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in any selectable list. IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit of a chore to use it. Regards, Venkatesh Parthasarathy, Senior Technical Writer. -- --- First Do No Harm ---
RANT: FM 9.0 -
> Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do > not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in any selectable list. I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade through maker.ini and see if there's anything in there that can be changed. > IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to > the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit > of a chore to use it. I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM for roughly 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time to poke through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head around the UI for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which selections need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick"). Granted I was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the beginning - because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have been - but I think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not enough time was spent use testing with veteran users. Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to completely relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same logic, keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be maintained. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
RANT: FM 9.0 -
I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it. Nadine --- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow wrote: > From: Bill Swallow > Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - > To: "Venkat" > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM > > Can these behavior be changed. I > do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do > > not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in > any selectable list. > > I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade > through maker.ini > and see if there's anything in there that can be changed. > > > IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and > do not add anything to > > the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In > fact, I find it a bit > > of a chore to use it. > > I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM > for roughly > 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time > to poke > through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head > around the UI > for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which > selections > need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick"). > Granted I > was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the > beginning - > because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have > been - but I > think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not > enough time was > spent use testing with veteran users. > > Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to > completely > relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same > logic, > keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be > maintained. > > -- > Bill Swallow > > Twitter: @techcommdood > Blog: http://techcommdood.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as generic668 at yahoo.ca. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.ca > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > 5o
RANT: FM 9.0 -
Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a dancing paper clip? We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve. Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend? Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM To: Venkat; Bill Swallow Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it. Nadine --- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow wrote: > From: Bill Swallow > Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - > To: "Venkat" > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM > > Can these behavior be changed. I > do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do > > not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in > any selectable list. > > I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade > through maker.ini > and see if there's anything in there that can be changed. > > > IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and > do not add anything to > > the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In > fact, I find it a bit > > of a chore to use it. > > I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM > for roughly > 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time > to poke > through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head > around the UI > for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which > selections > need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick"). > Granted I > was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the > beginning - > because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have > been - but I > think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not > enough time was > spent use testing with veteran users. > > Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to > completely > relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same > logic, > keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be > maintained. > > -- > Bill Swallow > > Twitter: @techcommdood > Blog: http://techcommdood.com > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as generic668 at yahoo.ca. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.c a > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. > Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and > info. > 5o ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as darren.butler.ctr at robins.af.mil. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/darren.butler.ctr%40 robins.af.mil Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RANT: FM 9.0 -
By menu-to-ribbon, are you referring to Word? If yes, click on this link, then click "Start the guide": http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/interactive-word-2003-to-word-2007-command-reference-guide-HA010074432.aspx Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 03-Aug-10 6:50 PM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB wrote: > Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a > dancing paper clip? > > We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to > FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve. > > Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend? > Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. > > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM > To: Venkat; Bill Swallow > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - > > I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it. > > Nadine > > --- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow wrote: > > >> From: Bill Swallow >> Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - >> To: "Venkat" >> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com >> Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM >> >>> Can these behavior be changed. I >>> >> do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do >> >>> not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in >>> >> any selectable list. >> >> I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade >> through maker.ini >> and see if there's anything in there that can be changed. >> >> >>> IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and >>> >> do not add anything to >> >>> the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In >>> >> fact, I find it a bit >> >>> of a chore to use it. >>> >> I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM >> for roughly >> 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time >> to poke >> through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head >> around the UI >> for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which >> selections >> need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick"). >> Granted I >> was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the >> beginning - >> because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have >> been - but I >> think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not >> enough time was >> spent use testing with veteran users. >> >> Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to >> completely >> relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same >> logic, >> keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be >> maintained. >> >> -- >> Bill Swallow >> >> Twitter: @techcommdood >> Blog: http://techcommdood.com >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to framers as generic668 at yahoo.ca. >> >> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >> or visit >> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.c > a > >> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. >> Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and >> info. >> 5o >> > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as > darren.butler.ctr at robins.af.mil. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/darren.butler.ctr%40 > robins.af.mil > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as shmuelw1 at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > >
RANT: FM 9.0 -
I was actually referring to FM but thanks for the Microsoft link. Ribbons are for typewriters not software. -Original Message- From: Shmuel Wolfson [mailto:shmue...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:06 PM To: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - By menu-to-ribbon, are you referring to Word? If yes, click on this link, then click "Start the guide": http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/interactive-word-2003-to-wor d-2007-command-reference-guide-HA010074432.aspx Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 03-Aug-10 6:50 PM, Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB wrote: > Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a > dancing paper clip? > > We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to > FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve. > > Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend? > Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. > > -Original Message- > From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com > [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:36 AM > To: Venkat; Bill Swallow > Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com > Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - > > I was cranky about it at first, but I got used to it. > > Nadine > > --- On Tue, 8/3/10, Bill Swallow wrote: > > >> From: Bill Swallow >> Subject: Re: RANT: FM 9.0 - >> To: "Venkat" >> Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com >> Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:27 AM >> >>> Can these behavior be changed. I >>> >> do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do >> >>> not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in >>> >> any selectable list. >> >> I don't know. You may need to take some time to wade >> through maker.ini >> and see if there's anything in there that can be changed. >> >> >>> IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and >>> >> do not add anything to >> >>> the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In >>> >> fact, I find it a bit >> >>> of a chore to use it. >>> >> I agree with this. Jumping into FM9 after having used FM >> for roughly >> 12 years was a bit of a surprise. While I didn't have time >> to poke >> through every feature, I had difficulty wrapping my head >> around the UI >> for conditional text (I'm still fuzzy on the order in which >> selections >> need to be made in the UI in order for things to "stick"). >> Granted I >> was in the "UI changes are not necessary" camp from the >> beginning - >> because the tool worked very well, as ugly as it may have >> been - but I >> think too much time was spent upgrading the UI and not >> enough time was >> spent use testing with veteran users. >> >> Just as with the MS Office ribbon, one should not have to >> completely >> relearn how to use software after a UI update. The same >> logic, >> keyboard shortcuts, and expected behavior should be >> maintained. >> >> -- >> Bill Swallow >> >> Twitter: @techcommdood >> Blog: http://techcommdood.com >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood >> ___ >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to framers as generic668 at yahoo.ca. >> >> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to >> framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com >> or visit >> > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/generic668%40yahoo.c > a > >> Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. >> Visit >> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and >> info. >> 5o >> > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as > darren.butler.ctr at robins.af.mil. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/darren.butler.ctr%40 > robins.af.mil > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as shmuelw1 at gmail.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > >
RANT: FM 9.0 -
Darren Butler wrote: > Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a > dancing paper clip? > > We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to > FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve. > > Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend? > Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. Adobe *didn't* emulate Microsoft, and what they came up with is *not* a ribbon UI like MS Office has. Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating toolbars and dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only small changes to the original circa 1990 user interface that they bought from Frame Technologies in 1995, and many people had complained that the UI didn't look sufficiently Adobe-like. The fact that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that looks and acts similarly to Adobe's flagship apps should be a great benefit to the minuscule handful of new users who come to FrameMaker from tools like Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, but its value to experienced FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable. -Fred Ridder
RANT: FM 9.0 -
And speaking as a 40-mumbley-aged person, the contrast of the black text on the grey interface sucks, even with my reading glasses. I hate playing with all the pods that fly about. I don't like the focus changing unexpectedly, I just dislike having to pay so much attention to my interface, as it takes away from authoring effort and breaks my concentration. In general, I really dislike the new interface. It doesn't look like a Windows app and it's hard to use. sharon Sharon Burton Content Consultant www.anthrobytes.com 951-369-8590 IM: sharonvburton at yahoo.com Twitter: sharonburton Blog:anthrobytes.wordpress.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonvburton Darren Butler wrote: > Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a > dancing paper clip? > > We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to > FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve. > > Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend? > Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. [snip] Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating toolbars and dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only small changes to the original circa 1990 user interface that they bought from Frame Technologies in 1995, and many people had complained that the UI didn't look sufficiently Adobe-like. The fact that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that looks and acts similarly to Adobe's flagship apps should be a great benefit to the minuscule handful of new users who come to FrameMaker from tools like Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, but its value to experienced FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable. -Fred Ridder ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as sharon at anthrobytes.com. Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/sharon%40anthrobytes.com Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RANT: FM 9.0 -
I wouldn't say it's hard to use, but it certainly is difficult to use efficiently. As you say, pods are everywhere. I am constantly hiding and changing the docking location for ones I use regularly because they are always in the way of the authoring area. The tool should not get in the way of the task for which it was designed. And yes, the lack of contrast in the UI itself makes the UI a bit difficult to stare at and read, but that appears to be an Adobe thing because RoboHelp is the same way, only brighter. On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Sharon Burton wrote: > And speaking as a 40-mumbley-aged person, the contrast of the black text on > the grey interface sucks, even with my reading glasses. I hate playing with > all the pods that fly about. I don't like the focus changing unexpectedly, I > just dislike having to pay so much attention to my interface, as it takes > away from authoring effort and breaks my concentration. > > In general, I really dislike the new interface. It doesn't look like a > Windows app and it's hard to use. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
RANT: FM 9.0 -
Speaking as a newbie, but also more than 40 years old, I really like the interface. The black on gray makes the menus and such usable but unobtrusive, and I like the fact that I can control the illumination. It's still hard to learn (I made a few stabs with FM8), but seems much improved to me. I have no history of prior use, and therefore no memories of key commands, etc. Maybe they designed 9 to accommodate new users better. Jack DeLand
RANT: FM 9.0 -
Hi Fred- okay.but.Adobe FM started out looking similar to a windows app, then when windows changed its' UI, FM changed also - coincidence?!!? Well, we were test driving FM9 about the same time as Word 2007 (both by force). The frustration level was interchangeable betwixt the two application UIs. True, the new FM UI isn't a "ribbon" but both are feeble attempts (IMHO) to get cute with the interface. To me it's the equivalent of New Coke, KISS when they stopped wearing makeup and costumes, and middle-aged Caucasian pop stars who start dressing like they came from *da'hood* - COMPLETELY unnecessary, and a very distasteful experience. Hopefully Adobe has gotten this out of their system and can now turn their attention to more serious FM improvements, like the ones clamored-for on this list. It's interesting to me that both Adobe and MS used "we want it appeal to new users" as a reason to change the UI of a well-loved, well-used product. I've been using FM since version 5 was in diapers and I, myself, have never heard anyone opine that FM just wasn't "Adobe-like" The only consistent rant I've heard over the years is "multiple undo, multiple undo, multiple undo, multiple undo." I must run with the low brow set of FM users ;^) You might be right, but I still contend that Adobe just wanted to be trendy. Maybe I just fear change. -DJ -Original Message- From: Fred Ridder [mailto:docu...@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:59 PM To: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHDB; generic668 at yahoo.ca; venkat.partha at gmail.com; techcommdood at gmail.com Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: RANT: FM 9.0 - Darren Butler wrote: > Why Adobe would want to emulate Microsoft is beyond me. What's next, a > dancing paper clip? > > We actually purchased 9.0 then down-graded (yes, you can do that) to > FM8. High volume shop, NO time for an (un)learning curve. > > Are there any menu-to-ribbon road maps that one might recommend? > Eventually, a CMS upgrade will force us to go the FM9. Adobe *didn't* emulate Microsoft, and what they came up with is *not* a ribbon UI like MS Office has. Their intent was to emulate other *Adobe* apps with floating toolbars and dockable dialogs. Over the years, Adobe had made only small changes to the original circa 1990 user interface that they bought from Frame Technologies in 1995, and many people had complained that the UI didn't look sufficiently Adobe-like. The fact that FrameMaker 9.0 has a UI that looks and acts similarly to Adobe's flagship apps should be a great benefit to the minuscule handful of new users who come to FrameMaker from tools like Photoshop or Illustrator or InDesign, but its value to experienced FrameMaker users is (at best) debatable. -Fred Ridder
RANT: FM 9.0 -
I'll buy that argument, but some consideration for those using it even before the Adobe years would have been nice. On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:03 PM, wrote: > Maybe they designed 9 to accommodate new users better. -- Bill Swallow Twitter: @techcommdood Blog: http://techcommdood.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood
RANT: FM 9.0 -
> And yes, the lack of contrast in the UI itself makes the UI a bit > difficult to stare at and read, but that appears to be an Adobe thing > because RoboHelp is the same way, only brighter. There is some adjustment that's possible: File> Preferences> Interface> UI Brightness. There is also a third party plugin that colors the icons (like the old style) in the toolbar at: http://www.daube.ch/docu/fmaker55.html. Mike Wickham
RANT: FM 9.0 -
You should post this where it has a chance of doing some good, on the Adobe forum. My understanding is that Frame 9 was developed entirely overseas, safely away from anyone who might give them adverse but useful feedback. It's a big company thing to do: play up the window dressing without fussing too much with anything else. On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 4:00 AM, Venkat wrote: > > > Hello, > > I have just migrated to FM 9.0 yesterday and IMHO, am finding the UI a pain > to use. ?Some of the issues that I am having are: > > 1. When using structured interface, using F8 to select a character style > creates a new element of the same type at the point where the style has to > be applied. > > 2. When using F8 to apply the Default Format in FM8, we just used to select > F8 and then press the key. This is not possible in FM9 as there is > an entry "Not Applicable" as the first entry in all the lists. > > 3. Dialogs persist and do not behave as required. For example, take the > "Anchored Frame" dialog. When I want to insert an image in my document, I > use an element "Image". This by default inserts an anchored frame and the > "Anchored Frame" dialog box is displayed. However, when I click the Frame> button in the dialog, the frame is inserted but the dialog box > changes to the edit mode and retains the focus. > > My definition of the "Image" element inserts the "Image Title" element below > the image when I press the button again. This action is now gone for > a toss as I have to close this persistent dialog to get focus back to the > document. This has slowed me down considerably as I work mostly with the > keyboard. > > My question is > > Can these behavior be changed. I do not want dialogs to be persistent. I do > not want the "Not Applicable" element as the first in any selectable list. > > IMHO, the changes made in FM9 are just eye-candy and do not add anything to > the whole experience of working with Frame Maker. In fact, I find it a bit > of a chore to use it. > > Regards, > Venkatesh Parthasarathy, > Senior Technical Writer. > > -- > --- > First Do No Harm > --- > ___ > > > You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_gonzo at pobox.com. > > Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com. > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > framers-unsubscribe at lists.frameusers.com > or visit > http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com > > Send administrative questions to listadmin at frameusers.com. Visit > http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. > -- Steve Johnson, dr_gonzo at pobox.com
