Re: [Frameworks] sound examples in film + video
This is one of the best works i'have seen regarding sound.It could be compared to the classic I'm sitting in a room by Alvin Lucier: Mediations by Gary HillMediations (towards a remake of Soundings), 1979/1986 | | | | | | | | | | | Mediations (towards a remake of Soundings), 1979/1986 | | | | Ver en vimeo.com | Vista previa por Yahoo | | | | | El Miércoles 17 de junio de 2015 23:03, Esperanza Collado esperanzacolla...@gmail.com escribió: Hi Matt, Laida Lertxundi's work fits perfectly what you are looking for. Her films emphasize very clearly the differences of diegetic and non-diagetic sound. You wont find her films on the internet but if you write her an email im sure she will provide access to Vimeo links. You can find her email in her website laidalertxundi.com Best, El lunes, 15 de junio de 2015, Gene Youngblood ato...@comcast.net escribió: A classic instance of sound innovation is Bunuel’s L’Age d”Or. When everyone else was falling all over themselves to do lip sync, he stages a key dialog as mental telepathy. On Jun 15, 2015, at 1:28 PM, Dave Tetzlaff djte...@gmail.com wrote: For Hollywood film, 'Die Hard' ia masterpiece of sound production. The SFX carry a huge amount of information, tone and style, and (naturally) they're all post-production, including lots of Foley. I heard the lead Foley artist give a talk on it as part of an audio-art series many moons ago, and the level of detail was absolutely fascinating. Of course, all the footfalls are walked on a Foley stage, and the Foley artists not only walk in character (how would Hnas walk? how would Mclane?) but select shoes that SOUND like what they imagine the character would wear. Typical of all 'realist' filmmaking, the actual thing does not function to represent itself through the process of mediation — in this case genuine expensive shoes (of the sort Hans would wear, e.g.) don't SOUND expensive, but the artist (a woman) had a pair of old thrift-store-bought shoes that had evoked luxury sonically. The Foley artists have huge kits of 'junk' purchased at thrift stores and auction for their unique sounds — more shoes than Imelda Marcos, each pair have a different sonic character. One of her prized possessions was a massive old padlock that, when dropped, sounds like what we expect a dropped gun to sound like - and when scraped over various other mundane things makes metal-on-metal sounds that work for all kinds of specialized effects — all based on the Foley artist knowing how to use them just so. For example, when the thieves lock-down Nakatomi Plaza, there are sounds of various metal gates coming down, door locking shut, etc. — all shot MOS, with the audio added in post from stuff out of her Foley kit. An older classic film with a heavy reliance on audio for storytelling, including defining off-screen space, is 'M' where the plot revolves around a blind man as the only witness to a murder, but who can identify him by ear. As it was made very early in the sound era, Lang and his collaborators were very conscious of using sound as a creative tool, and innovated a lot of devices that became common after that. 'The Conversation' having already been mentioned, I'll note the audio work on 'Apocalypse Now' and 'Rumble Fish' is also brilliant. '2001' for the parts WITHOUT the score - especially the scene with Dr. Floyd on the shuttle with a very telling conversation just barely audible in the background. 'Touch of Evil'... Welles' b/g in radio drama also figures in 'Citizen Kane' of course. 'The Birds': absent any non-diegetic sound, but with an electronic SFX track on which bernard Hermann served as a consultant. Spaghetti westerns, Hong Kong martial arts movies, and other commercial films make explicitly for international audiences do interesting things with dubbing, score and not-very-realistic diagetic SFX and soundscapes... The classic exemplar of non-diegetic sound (narration and music) revealed as framing the meaning of images is in Marker's 'Letter From Siberia'. Direct cinema documentary typically uses 'tricky' audio editing (J and L cuts) to create the illusion of temporal continuity in sequences where the shots weren't actually contiguous in time (being single camera shoots...) 'Primary' has lots of examples if you study the sound track, and think about how the changes in visual perspective DON't correspond to changes in audio perspective at so many points. It was made pre-crystal-sync, using a cable-sync hook-up that didn't work a lot of the time, so there was even more diddling in post to get the 'fly-on-the-wall' illusion. For experimental films, the first thing that comes to mind is 'The End', by Maclaine with it's long stretches of narration over black (punctuated by a few poetic SFX) and it's use of vocal performance and music throughout. 'Christmas on Earth' has no fixed
Re: [Frameworks] sound examples in film + video
Hi Matt, Laida Lertxundi's work fits perfectly what you are looking for. Her films emphasize very clearly the differences of diegetic and non-diagetic sound. You wont find her films on the internet but if you write her an email im sure she will provide access to Vimeo links. You can find her email in her website laidalertxundi.com Best, El lunes, 15 de junio de 2015, Gene Youngblood ato...@comcast.net escribió: A classic instance of sound innovation is Bunuel’s L’Age d”Or. When everyone else was falling all over themselves to do lip sync, he stages a key dialog as mental telepathy. On Jun 15, 2015, at 1:28 PM, Dave Tetzlaff djte...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: For Hollywood film, 'Die Hard' ia masterpiece of sound production. The SFX carry a huge amount of information, tone and style, and (naturally) they're all post-production, including lots of Foley. I heard the lead Foley artist give a talk on it as part of an audio-art series many moons ago, and the level of detail was absolutely fascinating. Of course, all the footfalls are walked on a Foley stage, and the Foley artists not only walk in character (how would Hnas walk? how would Mclane?) but select shoes that SOUND like what they imagine the character would wear. Typical of all 'realist' filmmaking, the actual thing does not function to represent itself through the process of mediation — in this case genuine expensive shoes (of the sort Hans would wear, e.g.) don't SOUND expensive, but the artist (a woman) had a pair of old thrift-store-bought shoes that had evoked luxury sonically. The Foley artists have huge kits of 'junk' purchased at thrift stores and auction for their unique sounds — more shoes than Imelda Marcos, each pair have a different sonic character. One of her prized possessions was a massive old padlock that, when dropped, sounds like what we expect a dropped gun to sound like - and when scraped over various other mundane things makes metal-on-metal sounds that work for all kinds of specialized effects — all based on the Foley artist knowing how to use them just so. For example, when the thieves lock-down Nakatomi Plaza, there are sounds of various metal gates coming down, door locking shut, etc. — all shot MOS, with the audio added in post from stuff out of her Foley kit. An older classic film with a heavy reliance on audio for storytelling, including defining off-screen space, is 'M' where the plot revolves around a blind man as the only witness to a murder, but who can identify him by ear. As it was made very early in the sound era, Lang and his collaborators were very conscious of using sound as a creative tool, and innovated a lot of devices that became common after that. 'The Conversation' having already been mentioned, I'll note the audio work on 'Apocalypse Now' and 'Rumble Fish' is also brilliant. '2001' for the parts WITHOUT the score - especially the scene with Dr. Floyd on the shuttle with a very telling conversation just barely audible in the background. 'Touch of Evil'... Welles' b/g in radio drama also figures in 'Citizen Kane' of course. 'The Birds': absent any non-diegetic sound, but with an electronic SFX track on which bernard Hermann served as a consultant. Spaghetti westerns, Hong Kong martial arts movies, and other commercial films make explicitly for international audiences do interesting things with dubbing, score and not-very-realistic diagetic SFX and soundscapes... The classic exemplar of non-diegetic sound (narration and music) revealed as framing the meaning of images is in Marker's 'Letter From Siberia'. Direct cinema documentary typically uses 'tricky' audio editing (J and L cuts) to create the illusion of temporal continuity in sequences where the shots weren't actually contiguous in time (being single camera shoots...) 'Primary' has lots of examples if you study the sound track, and think about how the changes in visual perspective DON't correspond to changes in audio perspective at so many points. It was made pre-crystal-sync, using a cable-sync hook-up that didn't work a lot of the time, so there was even more diddling in post to get the 'fly-on-the-wall' illusion. For experimental films, the first thing that comes to mind is 'The End', by Maclaine with it's long stretches of narration over black (punctuated by a few poetic SFX) and it's use of vocal performance and music throughout. 'Christmas on Earth' has no fixed sound-track, but rather instructions on how the projectionist might come up with something to play over the PA that provides the proper psychic tumult'. 'Meshes of the Afternoon' has an iconic music-as-SFX score that wasn't created until 16 years after the film was shot (how different might it have come across merely silent, or with a variety of other sound accompaniments during those 16 years??) Audio manipulations are central to Hollis Frampton's 'Critical Mass' and '(nostalgia)'
Re: [Frameworks] sound examples in film + video
For mainstream features, check out the BFI Screen Guides text, 100 Modern Soundtracks by Phillip Brophy. Brophy’s introduction offers a constructive contextualizing perspective. Decent text for laying a groundwork for thinking about sound in narrative features. Bresson is always brilliant with sound. Kubelka’s sound in Unsere Afrikareise is fantastic. Baillie is sonically strong in Castro Street and Quick Billy. Deborah Stratman does some great sound work. My own, Suite of Summer Evenings, if I may, has a rich soundscape. (if you’d like to judge for yourself, I’ll send you the Vimeo password). robert harris On Jun 15, 2015, at 10:21 AM, Matt Shaw mshaw...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Folks, I’m looking for recommendations of films + videos that can be used to exemplify the use of sound (diegetic and non-). This is for an introductory video studio course with the section focusing on sound ending with a portrait/doc project. All types and styles of filmmaking appreciated. Matt Shaw ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] sound examples in film + video
Specifically in relation to the diagetic / non-diagetic, the farmyard piano scene from Godard's Weekend, Nicky. -Original Message- From: lagonaboba lagonab...@gmail.com To: Experimental Film Discussion List frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com Sent: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 16:08 Subject: Re: [Frameworks] sound examples in film + video For mainstream features, check out the BFI Screen Guides text, 100 Modern Soundtracks by Phillip Brophy. Brophy’s introduction offers a constructive contextualizing perspective. Decent text for laying a groundwork for thinking about sound in narrative features. Bresson is always brilliant with sound. Kubelka’s sound in Unsere Afrikareise is fantastic. Baillie is sonically strong in Castro Street and Quick Billy. Deborah Stratman does some great sound work. My own, Suite of Summer Evenings, if I may, has a rich soundscape. (if you’d like to judge for yourself, I’ll send you the Vimeo password). robert harris On Jun 15, 2015, at 10:21 AM, Matt Shaw mshaw...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Folks, I’m looking for recommendations of films + videos that can be used to exemplify the use of sound (diegetic and non-). This is for an introductory video studio course with the section focusing on sound ending with a portrait/doc project. All types and styles of filmmaking appreciated. Matt Shaw ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
[Frameworks] sound examples in film + video
Hi Folks, I’m looking for recommendations of films + videos that can be used to exemplify the use of sound (diegetic and non-). This is for an introductory video studio course with the section focusing on sound ending with a portrait/doc project. All types and styles of filmmaking appreciated. Matt Shaw ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] sound examples in film + video
John Smith, A Girl Chewing Gum On Jun 15, 2015 10:21 AM, Matt Shaw mshaw...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Folks, I’m looking for recommendations of films + videos that can be used to exemplify the use of sound (diegetic and non-). This is for an introductory video studio course with the section focusing on sound ending with a portrait/doc project. All types and styles of filmmaking appreciated. Matt Shaw ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] sound examples in film + video
THE CONVERSATION, 1974, of course. Tim Sent from my iPhone On Jun 15, 2015, at 7:21 AM, Matt Shaw mshaw...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Folks, I’m looking for recommendations of films + videos that can be used to exemplify the use of sound (diegetic and non-). This is for an introductory video studio course with the section focusing on sound ending with a portrait/doc project. All types and styles of filmmaking appreciated. Matt Shaw ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] sound examples in film + video
start with The Conversation. Owen On Jun 15, 2015, at 10:21 AM, Matt Shaw mshaw...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Folks, I’m looking for recommendations of films + videos that can be used to exemplify the use of sound (diegetic and non-). This is for an introductory video studio course with the section focusing on sound ending with a portrait/doc project. All types and styles of filmmaking appreciated. Matt Shaw ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] sound examples in film + video
Bruce Connor Crossroads Michael Snow New York Eye and Ear Control Hollis Frampton Hapax Legomenanon nostalgia, Critical Mass On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Ruth Hayes randomr...@comcast.net wrote: I recommend Kevin T. Allen's documentary films, the most recent being Real West. He produces really beautiful soundscapes for these works using contact mics and mostly diegetic sound, including interviews. You can find his work through Small Gauge films. Ruth Hayes http://www.randommotion.com blogs.evergreen.edu/hayesr On Jun 15, 2015, at 7:21 AM, Matt Shaw wrote: Hi Folks, I’m looking for recommendations of films + videos that can be used to exemplify the use of sound (diegetic and non-). This is for an introductory video studio course with the section focusing on sound ending with a portrait/doc project. All types and styles of filmmaking appreciated. Matt Shaw ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] sound examples in film + video
I recommend Kevin T. Allen's documentary films, the most recent being Real West. He produces really beautiful soundscapes for these works using contact mics and mostly diegetic sound, including interviews. You can find his work through Small Gauge films. Ruth Hayes http://www.randommotion.com blogs.evergreen.edu/hayesr On Jun 15, 2015, at 7:21 AM, Matt Shaw wrote: Hi Folks, I’m looking for recommendations of films + videos that can be used to exemplify the use of sound (diegetic and non-). This is for an introductory video studio course with the section focusing on sound ending with a portrait/doc project. All types and styles of filmmaking appreciated. Matt Shaw ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] sound examples in film + video
For Hollywood film, 'Die Hard' ia masterpiece of sound production. The SFX carry a huge amount of information, tone and style, and (naturally) they're all post-production, including lots of Foley. I heard the lead Foley artist give a talk on it as part of an audio-art series many moons ago, and the level of detail was absolutely fascinating. Of course, all the footfalls are walked on a Foley stage, and the Foley artists not only walk in character (how would Hnas walk? how would Mclane?) but select shoes that SOUND like what they imagine the character would wear. Typical of all 'realist' filmmaking, the actual thing does not function to represent itself through the process of mediation — in this case genuine expensive shoes (of the sort Hans would wear, e.g.) don't SOUND expensive, but the artist (a woman) had a pair of old thrift-store-bought shoes that had evoked luxury sonically. The Foley artists have huge kits of 'junk' purchased at thrift stores and auction for their unique sounds — more shoes than Imelda Marcos, each pair have a different sonic character. One of her prized possessions was a massive old padlock that, when dropped, sounds like what we expect a dropped gun to sound like - and when scraped over various other mundane things makes metal-on-metal sounds that work for all kinds of specialized effects — all based on the Foley artist knowing how to use them just so. For example, when the thieves lock-down Nakatomi Plaza, there are sounds of various metal gates coming down, door locking shut, etc. — all shot MOS, with the audio added in post from stuff out of her Foley kit. An older classic film with a heavy reliance on audio for storytelling, including defining off-screen space, is 'M' where the plot revolves around a blind man as the only witness to a murder, but who can identify him by ear. As it was made very early in the sound era, Lang and his collaborators were very conscious of using sound as a creative tool, and innovated a lot of devices that became common after that. 'The Conversation' having already been mentioned, I'll note the audio work on 'Apocalypse Now' and 'Rumble Fish' is also brilliant. '2001' for the parts WITHOUT the score - especially the scene with Dr. Floyd on the shuttle with a very telling conversation just barely audible in the background. 'Touch of Evil'... Welles' b/g in radio drama also figures in 'Citizen Kane' of course. 'The Birds': absent any non-diegetic sound, but with an electronic SFX track on which bernard Hermann served as a consultant. Spaghetti westerns, Hong Kong martial arts movies, and other commercial films make explicitly for international audiences do interesting things with dubbing, score and not-very-realistic diagetic SFX and soundscapes... The classic exemplar of non-diegetic sound (narration and music) revealed as framing the meaning of images is in Marker's 'Letter From Siberia'. Direct cinema documentary typically uses 'tricky' audio editing (J and L cuts) to create the illusion of temporal continuity in sequences where the shots weren't actually contiguous in time (being single camera shoots...) 'Primary' has lots of examples if you study the sound track, and think about how the changes in visual perspective DON't correspond to changes in audio perspective at so many points. It was made pre-crystal-sync, using a cable-sync hook-up that didn't work a lot of the time, so there was even more diddling in post to get the 'fly-on-the-wall' illusion. For experimental films, the first thing that comes to mind is 'The End', by Maclaine with it's long stretches of narration over black (punctuated by a few poetic SFX) and it's use of vocal performance and music throughout. 'Christmas on Earth' has no fixed sound-track, but rather instructions on how the projectionist might come up with something to play over the PA that provides the proper psychic tumult'. 'Meshes of the Afternoon' has an iconic music-as-SFX score that wasn't created until 16 years after the film was shot (how different might it have come across merely silent, or with a variety of other sound accompaniments during those 16 years??) Audio manipulations are central to Hollis Frampton's 'Critical Mass' and '(nostalgia)' (the later including Frampton's choice to have his narration read by the apparently under-rehearsed and disinterested Michael Snow -- which is especially weird in the segment where Frampton talks about his relationship with Snow...) ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
Re: [Frameworks] sound examples in film + video
A classic instance of sound innovation is Bunuel’s L’Age d”Or. When everyone else was falling all over themselves to do lip sync, he stages a key dialog as mental telepathy. On Jun 15, 2015, at 1:28 PM, Dave Tetzlaff djte...@gmail.com wrote: For Hollywood film, 'Die Hard' ia masterpiece of sound production. The SFX carry a huge amount of information, tone and style, and (naturally) they're all post-production, including lots of Foley. I heard the lead Foley artist give a talk on it as part of an audio-art series many moons ago, and the level of detail was absolutely fascinating. Of course, all the footfalls are walked on a Foley stage, and the Foley artists not only walk in character (how would Hnas walk? how would Mclane?) but select shoes that SOUND like what they imagine the character would wear. Typical of all 'realist' filmmaking, the actual thing does not function to represent itself through the process of mediation — in this case genuine expensive shoes (of the sort Hans would wear, e.g.) don't SOUND expensive, but the artist (a woman) had a pair of old thrift-store-bought shoes that had evoked luxury sonically. The Foley artists have huge kits of 'junk' purchased at thrift stores and auction for their unique sounds — more shoes than Imelda Marcos, each pair have a different sonic character. One of her prized possessions was a massive old padlock that, when dropped, sounds like what we expect a dropped gun to sound like - and when scraped over various other mundane things makes metal-on-metal sounds that work for all kinds of specialized effects — all based on the Foley artist knowing how to use them just so. For example, when the thieves lock-down Nakatomi Plaza, there are sounds of various metal gates coming down, door locking shut, etc. — all shot MOS, with the audio added in post from stuff out of her Foley kit. An older classic film with a heavy reliance on audio for storytelling, including defining off-screen space, is 'M' where the plot revolves around a blind man as the only witness to a murder, but who can identify him by ear. As it was made very early in the sound era, Lang and his collaborators were very conscious of using sound as a creative tool, and innovated a lot of devices that became common after that. 'The Conversation' having already been mentioned, I'll note the audio work on 'Apocalypse Now' and 'Rumble Fish' is also brilliant. '2001' for the parts WITHOUT the score - especially the scene with Dr. Floyd on the shuttle with a very telling conversation just barely audible in the background. 'Touch of Evil'... Welles' b/g in radio drama also figures in 'Citizen Kane' of course. 'The Birds': absent any non-diegetic sound, but with an electronic SFX track on which bernard Hermann served as a consultant. Spaghetti westerns, Hong Kong martial arts movies, and other commercial films make explicitly for international audiences do interesting things with dubbing, score and not-very-realistic diagetic SFX and soundscapes... The classic exemplar of non-diegetic sound (narration and music) revealed as framing the meaning of images is in Marker's 'Letter From Siberia'. Direct cinema documentary typically uses 'tricky' audio editing (J and L cuts) to create the illusion of temporal continuity in sequences where the shots weren't actually contiguous in time (being single camera shoots...) 'Primary' has lots of examples if you study the sound track, and think about how the changes in visual perspective DON't correspond to changes in audio perspective at so many points. It was made pre-crystal-sync, using a cable-sync hook-up that didn't work a lot of the time, so there was even more diddling in post to get the 'fly-on-the-wall' illusion. For experimental films, the first thing that comes to mind is 'The End', by Maclaine with it's long stretches of narration over black (punctuated by a few poetic SFX) and it's use of vocal performance and music throughout. 'Christmas on Earth' has no fixed sound-track, but rather instructions on how the projectionist might come up with something to play over the PA that provides the proper psychic tumult'. 'Meshes of the Afternoon' has an iconic music-as-SFX score that wasn't created until 16 years after the film was shot (how different might it have come across merely silent, or with a variety of other sound accompaniments during those 16 years??) Audio manipulations are central to Hollis Frampton's 'Critical Mass' and '(nostalgia)' (the later including Frampton's choice to have his narration read by the apparently under-rehearsed and disinterested Michael Snow -- which is especially weird in the segment where Frampton talks about his relationship with Snow...) ___ FrameWorks mailing list FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
