Re: Debian GNU/kFreeBSD
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 10:12:05AM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote: What is it that this Debian GNU/kFreeBSD ships in those 7 DVDs? Please ask that on one of their mailing lists; it's out of scope for the two mailing lists you posted to. mcl ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 07:12:08PM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote: I fail to understand why manufacturers would let people install SSDs on machines when their life is so much in question. I fail to see why a manufacturer would *not* want your hardware to wear out faster, since that would mean you would have to buy replacement hardware sooner. Can someone please enlighten me on the dangers faced by those who opt to get their laptops installed with SSDs? In many cases, particularly where there is quite a lot of RAM installed in the system and where people use a netbook the way it was intended to be used when designed (typically involving a lot of Web browsing and not much else), SSDs might be the best option -- especially given the rapid obsolescence of low-performance, ultra-portable units. If you expect your hardware to last a long time, overrun physical RAM into swap space a lot, and (as you might with FreeBSD) compile code an awful lot, the heavier storage-write load might make more of a difference in the expected lifetime of the hardware. With FreeBSD, installing everything from binary packages can help mitigate the possible problems of shortening the life of your SSDs. Of course, if you care about having lots of storage, it's worth keeping in mind the fact that SSDs still cost a lot more per gigabyte of storage than rotating magnetic media (HDDs). I personally have one, with a Toshiba 128GB SSD (THNS128GG4BAAA-NonFDE). I am running Windows 7 on it. Should I stop and buy a SATA disk?:) Probably not. You already have the SSD storage, and its improved performance for many operations (as well as improved durability under stress in the short term) can still be of benefit. Just be sure you know when the usable lifespan of your SSD approaches, keep good backups (as you always should anyway), and be happy. You'd surely be happier with a better OS on it, though -- right? Hehee, Chad, on the Desktop, I'd rather run the ratware from Redmond than try FreeBSD! The second choice would be Linusware (not that I know much about it, but just because it seems to support certain aspects which would otherwise be painful to get to work with FreeBSD). Third option is PC-BSD (which is what you mean with better OS). All my servers run FreeBSD though. The better OS is not so better at the Desktop, hence the choice of ratware:-) -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
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Re: Debian GNU/kFreeBSD
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Mark Linimon lini...@lonesome.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 10:12:05AM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote: What is it that this Debian GNU/kFreeBSD ships in those 7 DVDs? Please ask that on one of their mailing lists; it's out of scope for the two mailing lists you posted to. mcl It was posted here so I must ask here. I am sorry thought that my reply-all went a little bit too far. I did not check that aspect. Why do some people post the way the OP did though? I blame the OP! -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Damn!! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 11:53:18AM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: You'd surely be happier with a better OS on it, though -- right? Chad, on the Desktop, I'd rather run the ratware from Redmond than try FreeBSD! The second choice would be Linusware (not that I know much about it, but just because it seems to support certain aspects which would otherwise be painful to get to work with FreeBSD). Third option is PC-BSD (which is what you mean with better OS). All my servers run FreeBSD though. The better OS is not so better at the Desktop, hence the choice of ratware:-) You clearly have a different opinion of what constitutes a good OS than I have. I prefer a desktop/laptop OS that is stable, reasonably securable, and productivity enhancing. I do not find immense and unnecessary bloat, a fundamentally broken approach to things like privilege separation, and a GUI so pervasively bound to interfere that CPU can spike to near 100% just by moving the mouse across the screen to meet those needs. Perhaps the fact that I use my desktop/laptop systems for things like writing code and articles rather than playing Guild Wars all day colors my perceptions. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpcWT52CVqfd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 02:23:53 -0700 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com articulated: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 11:53:18AM +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: You'd surely be happier with a better OS on it, though -- right? Chad, on the Desktop, I'd rather run the ratware from Redmond than try FreeBSD! The second choice would be Linusware (not that I know much about it, but just because it seems to support certain aspects which would otherwise be painful to get to work with FreeBSD). Third option is PC-BSD (which is what you mean with better OS). All my servers run FreeBSD though. The better OS is not so better at the Desktop, hence the choice of ratware:-) You clearly have a different opinion of what constitutes a good OS than I have. I prefer a desktop/laptop OS that is stable, reasonably securable, and productivity enhancing. I do not find immense and unnecessary bloat, a fundamentally broken approach to things like privilege separation, and a GUI so pervasively bound to interfere that CPU can spike to near 100% just by moving the mouse across the screen to meet those needs. Perhaps the fact that I use my desktop/laptop systems for things like writing code and articles rather than playing Guild Wars all day colors my perceptions. Bloat is a purely subjective term. What one user considers bloat could very well be a requirement for another use. For example, while you might consider it bloat to have drivers for modern wireless N protocol cards, many other users have a real need for them. I have four PC present working in my home. Three are FreeBSD machines and one a Win7 one. The Windows machine is essential, if for no other reason than there is software that is just not available on a FreeBSD platform. Or if it is available, it is of very poor quality. MS Office is a perfect example. Despite all of the rubbish the FOSS community has spewed for over 10 years, OpenOffice is nothing more than a poor clone of Office 97. The newly released libreoffice might be usable someday; however, it is now only in its infancy. There is no way it can be compared to a full blown MS Office 10 suite. Until the FOSS can write applications that are not only compatible with, but as fully functional as MS Office and similar software, as well as provide drivers in a timely manner (and I am still waiting for Java to be updated to the latest version so that it will work with the FreeBSD version of Firefox, or for acroread9 to actually work and play well with others, etc), Microsoft will always be a requirement for many end users. This is in no way a condemnation of FreeBSD, or any other open-source product. It is just a simple statement of fact. The majority of users, despite what they may publicly proclaim, want software and hardware that just works. I had installed an older nVidia GeForce GT 220 card in an older PC and then discovered that there was no sound being emitted by the machine. Wasting valuable time, I finally discovered that I had to modify the sysctl.conf file. Crap like that should just not happen. Things should just work. If other OS's can accomplish that feat, there is no reasonable reason that FreeBSD cannot attain that level of usability either, unless its goal is to remain nothing more than a hobbyist's toy. For the record, I have never played Guild Wars, although there are many fine games available that are not available on the FreeBSD platform. And no, I am not going to blame the authors of said software for that since they have an absolute right, well maybe not according to the EC aka ECUSSR, but in a normal and free business climate to write and publish software in whatever OS language they desire. Just my 2¢. -- Jerry ✌ freebsd.u...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ There is never time to do it right, but always time to do it over. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 07:38:01 -0500 Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote: Despite all of the rubbish the FOSS community has spewed for over 10 years, OpenOffice is nothing more than a poor clone of Office 97. The newly released libreoffice might be usable someday; however, it is now only in its infancy. There is no way it can be compared to a full blown MS Office 10 suite. For some, Office is unusable due to the new Ribbon interface and libreoffice is the usable office suite due to its familiar menus. -- Bruce Cran ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 07:38:01 -0500, Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote: Bloat is a purely subjective term. It's not. What one user considers bloat could very well be a requirement for another use. For example, while you might consider it bloat to have drivers for modern wireless N protocol cards, many other users have a real need for them. This would not be bloat in any regards. Bloat refers to software that raises hardware requirements (or also software requirements) for NO benefit at all. For example, a program that re-implements existing functionality, but does it in a way that the final result becomes much slower, more vulnerable to attacks or generally more insecure, would be bloat. This is a relation between what software provides and what it requires for that in chance. A term in relation is overall usage speed which contains things like system booting time, program loading time, time needed for interaction and so on. The corresponding equation would be software requirements speed = --- hardware resources which shows that if you increase both parts, the result will stay constant. This is the explaination why a 386 with 40 MHz and GEOS (Geoworks Ensemble) does not feel slower than a current PC with plentycore processor and tenmelonhundred Gigahertz and tons of RAM, running Windows and the MICROS~1 office suite. This assumes that people do the same things with both example systems, as they usually do (here: generic example of word processing). You can easily see that working (!) hardware support would not be bloat. In opposite, it would be very WELCOME to have support for wireless N protocol cards on ANY operating system. But there are reasons why it is NOT the case. This means that bloat is not specific to an OS. There are systems that traditionally emphasize the development of bloatware for their own marketing reasons, but you can also find bloated software on efficient and secure systems. I have four PC present working in my home. Three are FreeBSD machines and one a Win7 one. The Windows machine is essential, if for no other reason than there is software that is just not available on a FreeBSD platform. Or if it is available, it is of very poor quality. MS Office is a perfect example. Despite all of the rubbish the FOSS community has spewed for over 10 years, OpenOffice is nothing more than a poor clone of Office 97. The newly released libreoffice might be usable someday; however, it is now only in its infancy. There is no way it can be compared to a full blown MS Office 10 suite. Which ordinary people treat like a worse typewriter. :-) I can see that there may be fields where office suites have their right to exist. I've been working in a multi-OS place where Linux, BSD, Mac boxes as well as some Windows have been working quite cooperatively. The MICROS~1 office programs always caused problems, and as the systems were all given a OpenOffice installation, things magically worked. This, keep in mind, is just a very individual observation that does not claim to be applicable everywhere, just as yours. Until the FOSS can write applications that are not only compatible with, but as fully functional as MS Office and similar software, as well as provide drivers in a timely manner Just ask for the many different file format specifications for DOC files. You do know where you need to ask, don't you? :-) Honestly: If you need to open outdated or defective DOC files, there is always OpenOffice which achieves what the MICROS~1 program can't. (and I am still waiting for Java to be updated to the latest version so that it will work with the FreeBSD version of Firefox, or for acroread9 to actually work and play well with others, etc), Microsoft will always be a requirement for many end users. Many things you named work also on the Mac OS X platform which is also essential to many end users. Also note that Java and Acroread are just requirements for OTHER things, as they are tools to support other fields of use. THOSE fields are the ones creating the initial requirements (e. g. changing file formats, language specifications, arbitrary interface changes, and so on). This is in no way a condemnation of FreeBSD, or any other open-source product. It is just a simple statement of fact. Which is to be seen in relation to reality. The majority of users, despite what they may publicly proclaim, want software and hardware that just works. That's true. But MANUFACTURERS do not want such hardware, as this is NOT the way to increase geowth. Just imagine you could sell a just works PC that just works three years. Good idea? No. Better sell a halfway works PC every year along with a support bundle. If it doesn't break by itself, do it in software: Feature X requires software Y, but software Y requires hardware Z. The NEEDS of the majority of users is NOT in the scope of the manufacturers, or the
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:10:51 +, Bruce Cran br...@cran.org.uk wrote: For some, Office is unusable due to the new Ribbon interface and libreoffice is the usable office suite due to its familiar menus. Users who have already used PCs are familiar with the menu technique of functionality presentation. Scanning them is a lot faster than trying to find things in an always-changing context-sensitive Ribbon interface where things tend to rearrange whatever your focus is currently on. On the other hand, the Ribbon would be good for new users who do not have to re-learn things and who are not good at thinking in categories, or good at thinking at all. :-) No, seriously: Provided certain parameters (big screen, no established knowledge, no need for consistency, average visual perception and discrimination abilities), the Ribbon can benefit work. Just because *I* do not feel familiar with it, it doesn't mean that others have to judge the same way. Oh, and you don't really need it when you already know the keyboard shortcuts, which is ESSENTIAL for serious work (because it's faster). :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:10:51 + Bruce Cran br...@cran.org.uk articulated: On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 07:38:01 -0500 Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote: Despite all of the rubbish the FOSS community has spewed for over 10 years, OpenOffice is nothing more than a poor clone of Office 97. The newly released libreoffice might be usable someday; however, it is now only in its infancy. There is no way it can be compared to a full blown MS Office 10 suite. For some, Office is unusable due to the new Ribbon interface and libreoffice is the usable office suite due to its familiar menus. New, as in four years old? That is one of the worst straw man arguments I have heard in a while. In any case, In 2008 OpenOffice.org started the project Renaissance to improve the user interface of OpenOffice. So far the prototypes of the project are frequently seen as similar to the ribbon interface. Obviously, the use and customization of any software is a personal experience. However, if the use of the ribbon is beyond your abilities, and I am assuming that you are aware that the ribbon can be hidden, modified and that there are many add-ons available that can be used to manage it, then so be it. I would rather work with an application with a minor annoyance, and I do not find the ribbon to be one, then to use a less robust application. Again, it is up to the end user to ascertain their requirements and find the tool that is best fitted to that job. In any case, I am quite confident that your condemnation of the ribbon is totally based on your reading of Slashdot and other similar documents and not from any personal experience. -- Jerry ✌ freebsd.u...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ Knights are hardly worth it. I mean, all that shell and so little meat... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 08:58:05 -0500, Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:10:51 + Bruce Cran br...@cran.org.uk articulated: On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 07:38:01 -0500 Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote: Despite all of the rubbish the FOSS community has spewed for over 10 years, OpenOffice is nothing more than a poor clone of Office 97. The newly released libreoffice might be usable someday; however, it is now only in its infancy. There is no way it can be compared to a full blown MS Office 10 suite. For some, Office is unusable due to the new Ribbon interface and libreoffice is the usable office suite due to its familiar menus. New, as in four years old? That is one of the worst straw man arguments I have heard in a while. You're refering to when the UI has been issued as being new. I'm refering to how users recept it TODAY. In many business settings, you won't see any of the new stuff MICROS~1 has to offer. This Windows XP is still VERY present, and a common office application is the predecessor with the traditional menues. Many user complain about the Ribbon and refuse to use it, as they had a hard time learning menues (and the changes within them from program version to program version). And now something new... that's too complicated. That's why I was using new as this kind of nonfamiliar interface is considered new TO THEM. In any case, In 2008 OpenOffice.org started the project Renaissance to improve the user interface of OpenOffice. So far the prototypes of the project are frequently seen as similar to the ribbon interface. Providing the TRY of the same is often inferior to providing better. But users do not want better, they want the same as they prefer consistency in usage, implying that nothing new has to be learned. Obviously, the use and customization of any software is a personal experience. However, if the use of the ribbon is beyond your abilities, [...] Preferences. Abilities have nothing to do with it, except we are talking about niche users (who are out of scope anyway), such as blind users who could read menu text through a Braille readout, but can't identify images (without any text) by that means, which implies that a pictural interface which is contextually changing is absolutely unusable for them. [...] and I am assuming that you are aware that the ribbon can be hidden, modified and that there are many add-ons available that can be used to manage it, then so be it. I'm not using any MICROS~1 stuff at all, so my experience can be seen as limited. I would rather work with an application with a minor annoyance, and I do not find the ribbon to be one, then to use a less robust application. I don't think robustness is important for end users in the home sector, as bleeding edge is preferred. Robustness is very important for corporate users. Again, it is up to the end user to ascertain their requirements and find the tool that is best fitted to that job. No. End users do not try or find anything, or make judged considerations. They use whatever comes preinstalled, or they use what they know from their work place (traditionally by obtaining a pirated copy of whatever it is). In any case, I am quite confident that your condemnation of the ribbon is totally based on your reading of Slashdot and other similar documents and not from any personal experience. I have never read anything on Slashdot, sorry. Should I? :-) My personal experience is limited in helping users who come from a menu background and feel that the constant re-learning a contextually changing interface that is based upon pictural elements instead of WORDS is limiting their productivity. This was the chance for me to try to use the Ribbon interface, and I didn't feel it is THAT BAD. There are, however, applications where this kind of interface, if consistently used, would be a benefit for the user. I suggest you have a look at this: http://toastytech.com/guis/win72.html It's part of the Windows 7 article of the GUI Gallery and contains a very nice summary of user perception of the Ribbon, NOT in relation to MICROS~1's office programs in this case. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 08:58:05 -0500 Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote: New, as in four years old? That is one of the worst straw man arguments I have heard in a while. In any case, In 2008 OpenOffice.org started the project Renaissance to improve the user interface of OpenOffice. So far the prototypes of the project are frequently seen as similar to the ribbon interface. Obviously, the use and customization of any software is a personal experience. However, if the use of the ribbon is beyond your abilities, and I am assuming that you are aware that the ribbon can be hidden, modified and that there are many add-ons available that can be used to manage it, then so be it. I would rather work with an application with a minor annoyance, and I do not find the ribbon to be one, then to use a less robust application. Again, it is up to the end user to ascertain their requirements and find the tool that is best fitted to that job. In any case, I am quite confident that your condemnation of the ribbon is totally based on your reading of Slashdot and other similar documents and not from any personal experience. Obviously I'm not talking about myself having problems with it since I've used all sorts of different UIs over the years and can learn new interfaces quickly. You seem to be forgetting that most people don't upgrade very frequently: I wouldn't be surprised if lots were still running Office 2000. I worked in an RD environment and even there people were steadfastly ignoring Vista and even 64-bit Windows even 3 years after it was released - I had to keep running 32-bit XP. The problem is that less technically-literate people have problems with _certain_ operations which were simple in the past - printing for example now takes several clicks during which the screen changes each time. For people who get confused when icons move on the screen the context-sensitive nature of it can be rather difficult to learn. With large screens and people who don't have the baggage of expecting things to work a certain way I do think Ribbon is better: for example I recently started using Access 2010 and found it rather easy to find how to do things like exporting to SQL Server 2008, which would previously have been buried. Also, the way traditional sub-menus work in Windows is really awful for people who don't have accurate mouse skills - move the mouse outside the menu and it disappears. The Ribbon solves this problem. -- Bruce Cran ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Stuck
This is a new one for me. I decided to do a manual update on my 8.1 box, starting with csup. Buildworld went fine, as did buildkernel. However, when I tried to install the new kernel installkernel choked with an error message telling me that it could not proceed because the root partition was full. What! I did a df and sure enough the root partition was overloaded. When I installed the system I used sysinstalls recommended sizes for the root partion, which is around 10G. Anyway, when I rebooted, the system rebooted into single user mode, and that is presently where I stand. I have no idea how to proceed at this point, and would appreciate any help in fixing this. Of course, I smell a newbie type error in all of this, but haven't quite figured out where I went wrong. Cheers... Rem ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 07:38:01AM -0500, Jerry wrote: Bloat is a purely subjective term. What one user considers bloat could very well be a requirement for another use. For example, while you might consider it bloat to have drivers for modern wireless N protocol cards, many other users have a real need for them. If one OS has about a gigabyte installed size and another more like fifteen to twenty, and both are suitable to accomplishing everyday tasks for a given user, the latter is bloated. It doesn't matter if your favorite 5% of the latter system is different from mine, and we consider different parts of the system bloat, it's still bloated to both of us. This is why good design concepts like modularity are . . . good design concepts. Well, it's *one* reason, among many. Shame Microsoft never caught on to that concept. I have four PC present working in my home. Three are FreeBSD machines and one a Win7 one. The Windows machine is essential, if for no other reason than there is software that is just not available on a FreeBSD platform. Or if it is available, it is of very poor quality. You use what you need. I get that. I never disputed it. On the other hand, needing something because of a particular couple of requirements does not mean it's well designed. MS Office is a perfect example. Despite all of the rubbish the FOSS community has spewed for over 10 years, OpenOffice is nothing more than a poor clone of Office 97. The newly released libreoffice might be usable someday; however, it is now only in its infancy. There is no way it can be compared to a full blown MS Office 10 suite. OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice offer functionality MS Office does not, just as MS Office offers functionality they do not. Different people have different needs, and those office suites serve slightly different needs. On the other hand, OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice encompass more MS Office functionality than MS Office does of OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice functionality. Since it became a household term (at least in the open source community), for instance, OpenOffice.org has supported a wider range of MS Office documents than MS Office, thanks to the fact that despite its much-ballyhooed adherence to backwards compatibility, MS Office has tended to (intentionally?) break file format compatibility between release versions. Of course, office suites are collectively steaming garbage anyway. Until the FOSS can write applications that are not only compatible with, but as fully functional as MS Office and similar software, as well as provide drivers in a timely manner (and I am still waiting for Java to be updated to the latest version so that it will work with the FreeBSD version of Firefox, or for acroread9 to actually work and play well with others, etc), Microsoft will always be a requirement for many end users. When your criteria for success are identical to someone else's software, you're just creating a rigged game, where the someone else is the only possible winner -- because its efforts are in your eyes the standard of excellence no matter what its efforts produce, and everyone else just has to play catch-up. It has nothing to do with actual quality, usefulness, or productivity. It's funny you are complaining about open source developers not doing a good job by pointing out that closed source developers aren't doing their jobs, by the way. You are aware that both components of the complete Java system and Adobe's PDF reader are both closed source software -- right? This is in no way a condemnation of FreeBSD, or any other open-source product. . . . aside from the part where you blame open source developers for all the ills of the world above. Okay, so I exaggerate -- but you seem to be trolling rather than making a salient point. It is just a simple statement of fact. The majority of users, despite what they may publicly proclaim, want software and hardware that just works. I had installed an older nVidia GeForce GT 220 card in an older PC and then discovered that there was no sound being emitted by the machine. Wasting valuable time, I finally discovered that I had to modify the sysctl.conf file. Crap like that should just not happen. I agree that there should be ways to handle such things without forcing minimally competent computer users to search documentation for information about how to use sysctl to make sound work. Sane defaults and reasonable levels of autoconfiguration, at least as *options*, are good things. On the other hand, I wish I had the option of searching documentation and using a simple tool like sysctl to make graphics work on an MS Windows system a few years back. Instead, I ended up having to just use a different 3D graphics adapter because the one I had refused to work properly on a given motherboard with MS Windows. I later discovered the same hardware setup worked fine with Debian. There's no use pretending MS Windows
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
So... how about those solid state drives... yup. -Modulok- On 2/13/11, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 07:38:01AM -0500, Jerry wrote: Bloat is a purely subjective term. What one user considers bloat could very well be a requirement for another use. For example, while you might consider it bloat to have drivers for modern wireless N protocol cards, many other users have a real need for them. If one OS has about a gigabyte installed size and another more like fifteen to twenty, and both are suitable to accomplishing everyday tasks for a given user, the latter is bloated. It doesn't matter if your favorite 5% of the latter system is different from mine, and we consider different parts of the system bloat, it's still bloated to both of us. This is why good design concepts like modularity are . . . good design concepts. Well, it's *one* reason, among many. Shame Microsoft never caught on to that concept. I have four PC present working in my home. Three are FreeBSD machines and one a Win7 one. The Windows machine is essential, if for no other reason than there is software that is just not available on a FreeBSD platform. Or if it is available, it is of very poor quality. You use what you need. I get that. I never disputed it. On the other hand, needing something because of a particular couple of requirements does not mean it's well designed. MS Office is a perfect example. Despite all of the rubbish the FOSS community has spewed for over 10 years, OpenOffice is nothing more than a poor clone of Office 97. The newly released libreoffice might be usable someday; however, it is now only in its infancy. There is no way it can be compared to a full blown MS Office 10 suite. OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice offer functionality MS Office does not, just as MS Office offers functionality they do not. Different people have different needs, and those office suites serve slightly different needs. On the other hand, OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice encompass more MS Office functionality than MS Office does of OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice functionality. Since it became a household term (at least in the open source community), for instance, OpenOffice.org has supported a wider range of MS Office documents than MS Office, thanks to the fact that despite its much-ballyhooed adherence to backwards compatibility, MS Office has tended to (intentionally?) break file format compatibility between release versions. Of course, office suites are collectively steaming garbage anyway. Until the FOSS can write applications that are not only compatible with, but as fully functional as MS Office and similar software, as well as provide drivers in a timely manner (and I am still waiting for Java to be updated to the latest version so that it will work with the FreeBSD version of Firefox, or for acroread9 to actually work and play well with others, etc), Microsoft will always be a requirement for many end users. When your criteria for success are identical to someone else's software, you're just creating a rigged game, where the someone else is the only possible winner -- because its efforts are in your eyes the standard of excellence no matter what its efforts produce, and everyone else just has to play catch-up. It has nothing to do with actual quality, usefulness, or productivity. It's funny you are complaining about open source developers not doing a good job by pointing out that closed source developers aren't doing their jobs, by the way. You are aware that both components of the complete Java system and Adobe's PDF reader are both closed source software -- right? This is in no way a condemnation of FreeBSD, or any other open-source product. . . . aside from the part where you blame open source developers for all the ills of the world above. Okay, so I exaggerate -- but you seem to be trolling rather than making a salient point. It is just a simple statement of fact. The majority of users, despite what they may publicly proclaim, want software and hardware that just works. I had installed an older nVidia GeForce GT 220 card in an older PC and then discovered that there was no sound being emitted by the machine. Wasting valuable time, I finally discovered that I had to modify the sysctl.conf file. Crap like that should just not happen. I agree that there should be ways to handle such things without forcing minimally competent computer users to search documentation for information about how to use sysctl to make sound work. Sane defaults and reasonable levels of autoconfiguration, at least as *options*, are good things. On the other hand, I wish I had the option of searching documentation and using a simple tool like sysctl to make graphics work on an MS Windows system a few years back. Instead, I ended up having to just use a different 3D graphics adapter because the one I had refused to work
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 08:58:05AM -0500, Jerry wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:10:51 + Bruce Cran br...@cran.org.uk articulated: On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 07:38:01 -0500 Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote: Despite all of the rubbish the FOSS community has spewed for over 10 years, OpenOffice is nothing more than a poor clone of Office 97. The newly released libreoffice might be usable someday; however, it is now only in its infancy. There is no way it can be compared to a full blown MS Office 10 suite. For some, Office is unusable due to the new Ribbon interface and libreoffice is the usable office suite due to its familiar menus. New, as in four years old? That is one of the worst straw man arguments I have heard in a while. In any case, In 2008 OpenOffice.org started the project Renaissance to improve the user interface of OpenOffice. So far the prototypes of the project are frequently seen as similar to the ribbon interface. I do not think you understand the term straw man as used in reference to a logical fallacy. A straw man fallacy involves using a distraction in place of a valid argument, supplanting someone else's argument with this distraction, attributing it to that other person for the sake of attacking it rather than the argument that other person actually made. How, exactly, does the comment about the ribbon fit that definition at all? Obviously, the use and customization of any software is a personal experience. However, if the use of the ribbon is beyond your abilities, and I am assuming that you are aware that the ribbon can be hidden, modified and that there are many add-ons available that can be used to manage it, then so be it. I would rather work with an application with a minor annoyance, and I do not find the ribbon to be one, then to use a less robust application. Again, it is up to the end user to ascertain their requirements and find the tool that is best fitted to that job. Beyond your abilities is a better example of a straw man fallacy, since I don't think anyone here said Use of the ribbon is beyond my abilities, or anything even remotely equivalent to that. In any case, I am quite confident that your condemnation of the ribbon is totally based on your reading of Slashdot and other similar documents and not from any personal experience. Interfaces that change without a consistent use model being presented to the user -- as is the case with all but the most basic, unsophisticated users who are presented with the ribbon -- have long been recognized as a failure of usability design, and for good reason. This is why the words consisten navigation are so important in Web design circles. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgppRQt7YQpaN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Stuck
Rem Roberti writes: This is a new one for me. I decided to do a manual update on my 8.1 box, starting with csup. Buildworld went fine, as did buildkernel. However, when I tried to install the new kernel installkernel choked with an error message telling me that it could not proceed because the root partition was full. What! I did a df and sure enough the root partition was overloaded. When I installed the system I used sysinstalls recommended sizes for the root partion, which is around 10G. Anyway, when I rebooted, the system rebooted into single user mode, and that is presently where I stand. I have no idea how to proceed at this point, and would appreciate any help in fixing this. Of course, I smell a newbie type error in all of this, but haven't quite figured out where I went wrong. Start with this: du -x / | sort -nr | head -n 30 This will give you the largest directories; if any of them don't look right - investigate further. (For comparison: the root directory on this machine is 2 gbytes, of which I use 1.1. 10 gbytes is a lot of space.) Respectfully, Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 08:58:05AM -0500, Jerry wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 13:10:51 + Bruce Cran br...@cran.org.uk articulated: On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 07:38:01 -0500 Jerry freebsd.u...@seibercom.net wrote: Despite all of the rubbish the FOSS community has spewed for over 10 years, OpenOffice is nothing more than a poor clone of Office 97. The newly released libreoffice might be usable someday; however, it is now only in its infancy. There is no way it can be compared to a full blown MS Office 10 suite. For some, Office is unusable due to the new Ribbon interface and libreoffice is the usable office suite due to its familiar menus. New, as in four years old? That is one of the worst straw man arguments I have heard in a while. In any case, In 2008 OpenOffice.org started the project Renaissance to improve the user interface of OpenOffice. So far the prototypes of the project are frequently seen as similar to the ribbon interface. I do not think you understand the term straw man as used in reference to a logical fallacy. A straw man fallacy involves using a distraction in place of a valid argument, supplanting someone else's argument with this distraction, attributing it to that other person for the sake of attacking it rather than the argument that other person actually made. How, exactly, does the comment about the ribbon fit that definition at all? Obviously, the use and customization of any software is a personal experience. However, if the use of the ribbon is beyond your abilities, and I am assuming that you are aware that the ribbon can be hidden, modified and that there are many add-ons available that can be used to manage it, then so be it. I would rather work with an application with a minor annoyance, and I do not find the ribbon to be one, then to use a less robust application. Again, it is up to the end user to ascertain their requirements and find the tool that is best fitted to that job. Beyond your abilities is a better example of a straw man fallacy, since I don't think anyone here said Use of the ribbon is beyond my abilities, or anything even remotely equivalent to that. In any case, I am quite confident that your condemnation of the ribbon is totally based on your reading of Slashdot and other similar documents and not from any personal experience. Interfaces that change without a consistent use model being presented to the user -- as is the case with all but the most basic, unsophisticated users who are presented with the ribbon -- have long been recognized as a failure of usability design, and for good reason. This is why the words consisten navigation are so important in Web design circles. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Can you guys please take Microsoft bashing elsewhere? This thread is about FreeBSD and SSDs - a topic I'd like to hear more about from people with first-hand experience in running such setup. - Max ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Stuck
On 13 February 2011 16:51, Rem Roberti remeg...@comcast.net wrote: This is a new one for me. I decided to do a manual update on my 8.1 box, starting with csup. Buildworld went fine, as did buildkernel. However, when I tried to install the new kernel installkernel choked with an error message telling me that it could not proceed because the root partition was full. What! I did a df and sure enough the root partition was overloaded. When I installed the system I used sysinstalls recommended sizes for the root partion, which is around 10G. Anyway, when I rebooted, the system rebooted into single user mode, and that is presently where I stand. I have no idea how to proceed at this point, and would appreciate any help in fixing this. Of course, I smell a newbie type error in all of this, but haven't quite figured out where I went wrong. To fix your booting, I suggest that you check that /boot/kernel.old exists: # [ -d /boot/kernel ] echo Yes! If this doesn't say Yes! then stop, and wait for someone to help you out a little more. If it does: # /bin/mv /boot/kernel /boot/kernel.faulty # /bin/mv /boot/kernel.old /boot/kernel # reboot That should get you back up until you can fix your other problems! Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Stuck
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 08:51:12 -0800, Rem Roberti remeg...@comcast.net wrote: This is a new one for me. I decided to do a manual update on my 8.1 box, starting with csup. Buildworld went fine, as did buildkernel. However, when I tried to install the new kernel installkernel choked with an error message telling me that it could not proceed because the root partition was full. What! I did a df and sure enough the root partition was overloaded. When I installed the system I used sysinstalls recommended sizes for the root partion, which is around 10G. Where is it advised to make / 10 GB? Do you have any other functional parts that get their own partition traditionally (such as /tmp, /var, /usr) on the / partition? The installation process should not make the system bigger, as updating the system usually keeps nearly the same sizes. An exception is the kernel: Here, a backup of the previous kernel will be generated. On a partition / with 10 GB capacity and at least 1 GB free you should not run into problems. Kernel and modules should not grow bigger than that. Anyway, when I rebooted, the system rebooted into single user mode, and that is presently where I stand. I have no idea how to proceed at this point, and would appreciate any help in fixing this. You could try to mount the partitions via # mount -a # exit and bring up the system in multi-user mode, if possible. You can try to make sure there is sufficient space on the / partition to repeat the system and kernel installation procedure. Make sure you read the comment section of /usr/src/Makefile which gives a very good roadmap of how to properly perform an update. Of course, I smell a newbie type error in all of this, but haven't quite figured out where I went wrong. If you can provide command output. You can use the program script to make a copy of all terminal input/output to a file. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:42:54 -0700 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: There's no use pretending MS Windows never has issues with the efficacy of its autoconfiguration. Most of us have used that OS quite a lot, and know that problems arise -- and that, unlike with open source OSes, it's actually fairly common to have no recourse at all when something does not work. A good example is the need to edit the registry to improve network performance - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/321098 . Another is that in order to disable auto-run you need to know to type gpedit.msc in the Run window to load the Group Policy Editor and navigate to the settings. -- Bruce Cran ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Debian GNU/kFreeBSD
Odhiambo Washington odhia...@gmail.com writes: My question is: WHY need 7 DVDs??? DVDs?? Even M$ does not do such a crazy thing with its bloat-ware!! FreeBSD ships 1 DVD. What is it that this Debian GNU/kFreeBSD ships in those 7 DVDs? They contain all packages for that architecture. They are the equivalent of the binary packages for the entire FreeBSD ports tree. You don't need them if you install over the net. -- Carl Johnsonca...@peak.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Stuck
On 02/13/11 09:01, Robert Huff wrote: Rem Roberti writes: This is a new one for me. I decided to do a manual update on my 8.1 box, starting with csup. Buildworld went fine, as did buildkernel. However, when I tried to install the new kernel installkernel choked with an error message telling me that it could not proceed because the root partition was full. What! I did a df and sure enough the root partition was overloaded. When I installed the system I used sysinstalls recommended sizes for the root partion, which is around 10G. Anyway, when I rebooted, the system rebooted into single user mode, and that is presently where I stand. I have no idea how to proceed at this point, and would appreciate any help in fixing this. Of course, I smell a newbie type error in all of this, but haven't quite figured out where I went wrong. Start with this: du -x / | sort -nr | head -n 30 This will give you the largest directories; if any of them don't look right - investigate further. (For comparison: the root directory on this machine is 2 gbytes, of which I use 1.1. 10 gbytes is a lot of space I completely misspoke, having confused the hard drive in question with another box. This drive is a 40G drive, of which 500MB was allotted for root. When I ran your command I noticed the /boot/kernel.old was very large, so I moved the whole thing over to my home directory, which finally allowed me to boot the computer normally. This was an intuitive move, and probably not that kosher, but it worked. But where do we go from here? Rem ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Stuck
On 13 February 2011 13:53, Rem P Roberti remeg...@comcast.net wrote: On 02/13/11 09:01, Robert Huff wrote: Rem Roberti writes: This is a new one for me. I decided to do a manual update on my 8.1 box, starting with csup. Buildworld went fine, as did buildkernel. However, when I tried to install the new kernel installkernel choked with an error message telling me that it could not proceed because the root partition was full. What! I did a df and sure enough the root partition was overloaded. When I installed the system I used sysinstalls recommended sizes for the root partion, which is around 10G. Anyway, when I rebooted, the system rebooted into single user mode, and that is presently where I stand. I have no idea how to proceed at this point, and would appreciate any help in fixing this. Of course, I smell a newbie type error in all of this, but haven't quite figured out where I went wrong. Start with this: du -x / | sort -nr | head -n 30 This will give you the largest directories; if any of them don't look right - investigate further. (For comparison: the root directory on this machine is 2 gbytes, of which I use 1.1. 10 gbytes is a lot of space I completely misspoke, having confused the hard drive in question with another box. This drive is a 40G drive, of which 500MB was allotted for root. When I ran your command I noticed the /boot/kernel.old was very large, so I moved the whole thing over to my home directory, which finally allowed me to boot the computer normally. This was an intuitive move, and probably not that kosher, but it worked. But where do we go from here? Remove all the *.symbols files (if you're not going to be debugging). Build with makeoptions DEBUG=-g commented out of your kernel config. (my root filesystem has 70M used. On amd64, no less) -- -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 12:05:51PM -0500, Maxim Khitrov wrote: Can you guys please take Microsoft bashing elsewhere? This thread is about FreeBSD and SSDs - a topic I'd like to hear more about from people with first-hand experience in running such setup. - Max Agreed. I posted my short experience of using an SSD as a workstation drive and I'd be interested in hearing the experience of any other users. Problems? Praise? Let's hear it. Have people bothered to mount /tmp as a memory drive or are they as me just using their SSDs without any messing about? Regards, -- Frank Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html pgpsCkOwKiE7d.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Stuck
Rem Roberti writes: This is a new one for me. I decided to do a manual update on my 8.1 box, starting with csup. Buildworld went fine, as did buildkernel. However, when I tried to install the new kernel installkernel choked with an error message telling me that it could not proceed because the root partition was full. What! I did a df and sure enough the root partition was overloaded. When I installed the system I used sysinstalls recommended sizes for the root partion, which is around 10G. Anyway, when I rebooted, the system rebooted into single user mode, and that is presently where I stand. I have no idea how to proceed at this point, and would appreciate any help in fixing this. Of course, I smell a newbie type error in all of this, but haven't quite figured out where I went wrong. Start with this: du -x / | sort -nr | head -n 30 This will give you the largest directories; if any of them don't look right - investigate further. (For comparison: the root directory on this machine is 2 gbytes, of which I use 1.1. 10 gbytes is a lot of space I completely misspoke, having confused the hard drive in question with another box. This drive is a 40G drive, of which 500MB was allotted for root. When I ran your command I noticed the /boot/kernel.old was very large, so I moved the whole thing over to my home directory, which finally allowed me to boot the computer normally. This was an intuitive move, and probably not that kosher, but it worked. But where do we go from here? Remove all the *.symbols files (if you're not going to be debugging). Build with makeoptions DEBUG=-g commented out of your kernel config. (my root filesystem has 70M used. On amd64, no less) Getting rid of all those .symbols files made a big difference. Where do I locate the kernel config file? Rem ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Stuck
Quoth ill...@gmail.com on Sunday, 13 February 2011: On 13 February 2011 13:53, Rem P Roberti remeg...@comcast.net wrote: On 02/13/11 09:01, Robert Huff wrote: Rem Roberti writes: This is a new one for me. I decided to do a manual update on my 8.1 box, starting with csup. Buildworld went fine, as did buildkernel. However, when I tried to install the new kernel installkernel choked with an error message telling me that it could not proceed because the root partition was full. What! I did a df and sure enough the root partition was overloaded. When I installed the system I used sysinstalls recommended sizes for the root partion, which is around 10G. Anyway, when I rebooted, the system rebooted into single user mode, and that is presently where I stand. I have no idea how to proceed at this point, and would appreciate any help in fixing this. Of course, I smell a newbie type error in all of this, but haven't quite figured out where I went wrong. Start with this: du -x / | sort -nr | head -n 30 This will give you the largest directories; if any of them don't look right - investigate further. (For comparison: the root directory on this machine is 2 gbytes, of which I use 1.1. 10 gbytes is a lot of space I completely misspoke, having confused the hard drive in question with another box. This drive is a 40G drive, of which 500MB was allotted for root. When I ran your command I noticed the /boot/kernel.old was very large, so I moved the whole thing over to my home directory, which finally allowed me to boot the computer normally. This was an intuitive move, and probably not that kosher, but it worked. But where do we go from here? Remove all the *.symbols files (if you're not going to be debugging). Build with makeoptions DEBUG=-g commented out of your kernel config. (my root filesystem has 70M used. On amd64, no less) I have INSTALL_NODEBUG=yes in my make.conf, which someone on this list advised. Apparently that still builds the symbols but doesn't install them in /boot/kernel, saving a ton of space. This will prevent you running into this same problem the next time you build. -- Sterling (Chip) Camden | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | 2048D/3A978E4F http://chipsquips.com | http://camdensoftware.com | http://chipstips.com pgprXJHgVes3X.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Stuck
Remove all the *.symbols files (if you're not going to be debugging). Build with makeoptions DEBUG=-g commented out of your kernel config. (my root filesystem has 70M used. On amd64, no less) I knew that I asked a dumb question when I asked where to find the kernel config. OK...I commented out the section in question, and we'll see how it goes. Rem ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Stuck
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 10:31:24 -0800, Rem P Roberti remeg...@comcast.net wrote: Getting rid of all those .symbols files made a big difference. Where do I locate the kernel config file? It is /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/NAME or /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/NAME depending on your architecture; GENERIC is the name of the default kernel (which doesn't require KERNCONF=NAME in the make commands). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Stuck
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 10:53:09 -0800, Rem P Roberti remeg...@comcast.net wrote: I completely misspoke, having confused the hard drive in question with another box. This drive is a 40G drive, of which 500MB was allotted for root. For a current FreeBSD system, this is a bit too small (although sufficient under certain circumstances). Making / 1G or 2G should be fully sufficient in all cases. When I ran your command I noticed the /boot/kernel.old was very large, so I moved the whole thing over to my home directory, which finally allowed me to boot the computer normally. The .old file is a backup of the previous kernel, this backup is created automatically when you make installkernel. This was an intuitive move, and probably not that kosher, but it worked. It simply removes the ability to boot the old kernel, which doesn't seem to be a problem here. But where do we go from here? Check your kernel configuration (remove symbols), maybe remove building of modules you don't need (see man src.conf for details), repeat the installation procedure outlined in /usr/src/Makefile (comment section at the beginning). You should then end up with a fully functional updated system. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Frank Shute fr...@shute.org.uk wrote: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 12:05:51PM -0500, Maxim Khitrov wrote: Can you guys please take Microsoft bashing elsewhere? This thread is about FreeBSD and SSDs - a topic I'd like to hear more about from people with first-hand experience in running such setup. - Max Agreed. I posted my short experience of using an SSD as a workstation drive and I'd be interested in hearing the experience of any other users. Problems? Praise? Let's hear it. I have two personal SSD's, one an older PATA model in my laptop and an X-25 serving as a ZIL. I have had a great experience with them, but I know the Intel doesn't properly obey cache flush requests even with updated firmware so I guess that would be my biggest problem with them. -- Adam Vande More ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On 13.02.2011 19:50, Adam Vande More wrote: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Frank Shute fr...@shute.org.uk wrote: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 12:05:51PM -0500, Maxim Khitrov wrote: Can you guys please take Microsoft bashing elsewhere? This thread is about FreeBSD and SSDs - a topic I'd like to hear more about from people with first-hand experience in running such setup. - Max Agreed. I posted my short experience of using an SSD as a workstation drive and I'd be interested in hearing the experience of any other users. Problems? Praise? Let's hear it. I have two personal SSD's, one an older PATA model in my laptop and an X-25 serving as a ZIL. I have had a great experience with them, but I know the Intel doesn't properly obey cache flush requests even with updated firmware so I guess that would be my biggest problem with them. I'm running two X25-m G2s myself. One in my laptop, the other in my workstation (as systems and software drives, I used spinning metal for raw storage in both). Nothing but praise from me. //Svein -- +---+--- /\ |Svein Skogen | sv...@d80.iso100.no \ / |Solberg Østli 9| PGP Key: 0xE5E76831 X|2020 Skedsmokorset | sv...@jernhuset.no / \ |Norway | PGP Key: 0xCE96CE13 | | sv...@stillbilde.net ascii | | PGP Key: 0x58CD33B6 ribbon |System Admin | svein-listm...@stillbilde.net Campaign|stillbilde.net | PGP Key: 0x22D494A4 +---+--- |msn messenger: | Mobile Phone: +47 907 03 575 |sv...@jernhuset.no | RIPE handle:SS16503-RIPE +---+--- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? Picture Gallery: https://gallery.stillbilde.net/v/svein/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
Quoth Chad Perrin on Sunday, 13 February 2011: OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice offer functionality MS Office does not, just as MS Office offers functionality they do not. Different people have different needs, and those office suites serve slightly different needs. On the other hand, OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice encompass more MS Office functionality than MS Office does of OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice functionality. Since it became a household term (at least in the open source community), for instance, OpenOffice.org has supported a wider range of MS Office documents than MS Office, thanks to the fact that despite its much-ballyhooed adherence to backwards compatibility, MS Office has tended to (intentionally?) break file format compatibility between release versions. Hey, I just found out that libreoffice can open all those old .WRI files that MS Office no longer recognizes! Thanks for the tip! -- Sterling (Chip) Camden | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | 2048D/3A978E4F http://chipsquips.com | http://camdensoftware.com | http://chipstips.com pgp3Y3QPOJNHS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Stuck
I'm back in business, and the update finished without any more problems. However...the output of df is now really strange: root@ /etc: df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/label/rootfs0 507630326732 140288 70% / devfs 1 1 0 100%/dev /dev/label/var0 1012974 173368 758570 19% /var /dev/label/usr0 33292236 9351168 21277690 31% /usr linprocfs 4 4 100%/usr/compat/linux/proc /dev/md0 789518 20 726338 0%/tmp What happened to the Filesystem labels? Rem ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
Quoth Bruce Cran on Sunday, 13 February 2011: On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 09:42:54 -0700 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: There's no use pretending MS Windows never has issues with the efficacy of its autoconfiguration. Most of us have used that OS quite a lot, and know that problems arise -- and that, unlike with open source OSes, it's actually fairly common to have no recourse at all when something does not work. A good example is the need to edit the registry to improve network performance - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/321098 . Another is that in order to disable auto-run you need to know to type gpedit.msc in the Run window to load the Group Policy Editor and navigate to the settings. -- Bruce Cran You've touched on the basic philosophical difference between the Microsoft and Unix approaches. The former seeks to make usual activities easy and obvious, at the expense of making unusual activities downright difficult or impossible. Unfortunately, one person's unusual is another's everyday. The latter (Unix), OTOH, seeks greater consistency of interface, at the expense of a significant user learning experience just to get started. Personally, I prefer the latter, because that learning builds on itself and generates enormous power to overcome further obstacles and create new things. But for users who do not wish to learn anything and who want to use their computer the same way they use their DVD player or their electric toothbrush, the Microsoft Way fits the bill. -- Sterling (Chip) Camden | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | 2048D/3A978E4F http://chipsquips.com | http://camdensoftware.com | http://chipstips.com pgptPp92J4rk0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 12:05:51PM -0500, Maxim Khitrov wrote: Can you guys please take Microsoft bashing elsewhere? This thread is about FreeBSD and SSDs - a topic I'd like to hear more about from people with first-hand experience in running such setup. Perhaps responding to the FreeBSD bashing got a little out of hand. I apologize for sinking to nearly the same level of off-topic OS deprecation. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpwXFS5HoHrp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Stuck
On 02/13/11 10:44, Polytropon wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 10:31:24 -0800, Rem P Robertiremeg...@comcast.net wrote: Getting rid of all those .symbols files made a big difference. Where do I locate the kernel config file? It is /usr/src/sys/i386/conf/NAME or /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/NAME depending on your architecture; GENERIC is the name of the default kernel (which doesn't require KERNCONF=NAME in the make commands). Yes...I realized that I had asked a rather dumb question. I made the changes and all worked fine. I still can't figure out why the output of df looks the way it does. Re, ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 11:29:15AM -0800, Chip Camden wrote: But for users who do not wish to learn anything and who want to use their computer the same way they use their DVD player or their electric toothbrush, the Microsoft Way fits the bill. I think you're being too kind to the obviousness of the modern media player device's interface. The electric toothbrush is pretty obvious, though, if one is accustomed to toothbrushes in general. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpYbuP5dX9bp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 11:10:26AM -0800, Chip Camden wrote: Hey, I just found out that libreoffice can open all those old .WRI files that MS Office no longer recognizes! Thanks for the tip! My pleasure. I bet it doesn't have the old Windows Write memory leak, either -- which, by the way, persisted in Wordpad at least as late as XP. I haven't checked whether that same memory leak still exists in Vista or Win7; maybe I should. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpwaxx7be93Y.pgp Description: PGP signature
problem when including readline.h
I'm writing a C program which, for various reasons, has the warning level turned _way_ up. I'm now getting this: /usr/include/readline/readline.h:336: warning: redundant redeclaration of 'rl_make_bare_keymap' /usr/include/readline/keymaps.h:74: warning: previous declaration of 'rl_make_bare_keymap' was here and more like it. Other than turning down the warning level, what's wrong and how do I fix it? Respectfully, Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: problem when including readline.h
Quoth Robert Huff on Sunday, 13 February 2011: I'm writing a C program which, for various reasons, has the warning level turned _way_ up. I'm now getting this: /usr/include/readline/readline.h:336: warning: redundant redeclaration of 'rl_make_bare_keymap' /usr/include/readline/keymaps.h:74: warning: previous declaration of 'rl_make_bare_keymap' was here and more like it. Other than turning down the warning level, what's wrong and how do I fix it? Respectfully, Robert Huff Both keymaps.h and readline.h declare rl_make_bare_keymap as an external function. Perhaps you shouldn't be including both files? -- Sterling (Chip) Camden | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | 2048D/3A978E4F http://chipsquips.com | http://camdensoftware.com | http://chipstips.com pgpuscF2EbCUX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: problem when including readline.h
Chip Camden writes: I'm writing a C program which, for various reasons, has the warning level turned _way_ up. I'm now getting this: /usr/include/readline/readline.h:336: warning: redundant redeclaration of 'rl_make_bare_keymap' /usr/include/readline/keymaps.h:74: warning: previous declaration of 'rl_make_bare_keymap' was here and more like it. Other than turning down the warning level, what's wrong and how do I fix it? Both keymaps.h and readline.h declare rl_make_bare_keymap as an external function. Perhaps you shouldn't be including both files? Except I don't. The include list: #include sys/types.h #include ctype.h #include limits.h #include mysql/mysql.h #include stdio.h #include stdlib.h #include string.h #include strings.h #include sys/param.h #include unistd.h #include readline/readline.h #include readline/history.h No second keymap.h visible. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
CPU heating!
Hi; I am following 8-CURRENT AMD64. I have a Phenom II 955. Up to the 3rd week of January, I had 8-STABLE. Idle CPU temp was 42~44 C (which is already not excellent, i know) and full load would never go above 60 C (compiling VBox from KDE, for instance). After updating to 8.2-PRERELEASE, my temps now are: idle:not less than 48 C full load (same above conditions): it reached 65.5 C with peaks of 66 C!. Was there any big change between these versions that could be causing this? -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio YET!!] (99% winblows FREE) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: problem when including readline.h
Quoth Robert Huff on Sunday, 13 February 2011: Chip Camden writes: I'm writing a C program which, for various reasons, has the warning level turned _way_ up. I'm now getting this: /usr/include/readline/readline.h:336: warning: redundant redeclaration of 'rl_make_bare_keymap' /usr/include/readline/keymaps.h:74: warning: previous declaration of 'rl_make_bare_keymap' was here and more like it. Other than turning down the warning level, what's wrong and how do I fix it? Both keymaps.h and readline.h declare rl_make_bare_keymap as an external function. Perhaps you shouldn't be including both files? Except I don't. The include list: #include sys/types.h #include ctype.h #include limits.h #include mysql/mysql.h #include stdio.h #include stdlib.h #include string.h #include strings.h #include sys/param.h #include unistd.h #include readline/readline.h #include readline/history.h No second keymap.h visible. Robert Huff Ah -- readline.h includes keymaps.h. You're SOL. -- Sterling (Chip) Camden | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | 2048D/3A978E4F http://chipsquips.com | http://camdensoftware.com | http://chipstips.com pgpkyuFu4hGnI.pgp Description: PGP signature
Security: gnome-screensaver VS. switch user
People usually suspend their laptop, so that they can continue their work when they open the laptop. OK! Two choices [GNOME]: 1 - Menu -gt; Shut Down -gt; Suspend in this case, the gnome-screensaver locks the PC. but the gnome-screensaver is just a normal process, and it could be killed e.g.: http://securitytube.net/USB-Autorun-attacks-against-Linux-at-Shmoocon-2011-video.aspx or using any method [video was just an example!!]. 2 - Menu -gt; Log out -gt; Switch user -gt; Suspend in this case, the GDM [???] protects the user [i mean it locks the PC from other users] Which one is more secure/safer? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: problem when including readline.h
From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Sun Feb 13 17:00:08 2011 From: Robert Huff roberth...@rcn.com Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 17:56:12 -0500 To: Chip Camden sterl...@camdensoftware.com Cc: questi...@freebsd.org Subject: Re: problem when including readline.h Chip Camden writes: I'm writing a C program which, for various reasons, has the warning level turned _way_ up. I'm now getting this: /usr/include/readline/readline.h:336: warning: redundant redeclaration of 'rl_make_bare_keymap' /usr/include/readline/keymaps.h:74: warning: previous declaration of 'rl_make_bare_keymap' was here and more like it. Other than turning down the warning level, what's wrong and how do I fix it? Both keymaps.h and readline.h declare rl_make_bare_keymap as an external function. Perhaps you shouldn't be including both files? Except I don't. You have to chase through all the includes to see what is included by the files you directly include. It's pretty sure to be sometthing in the 'readline/' directory. The include list: #include sys/types.h #include ctype.h #include limits.h #include mysql/mysql.h #include stdio.h #include stdlib.h #include string.h #include strings.h #include sys/param.h #include unistd.h #include readline/readline.h #include readline/history.h No second keymap.h visible. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
mostly on-topic.
Yo guys,
First something offtopic. Even tho it was thanks to help from
members of this list that i was able to publish my novel about a
disabled computer nerd, nobody here bit. i thought at least many of
y'all would buy and share ... but nope. I'd be much obliged for
feedback--OFFLIST. If I ever have to create a typeset-quality doc,
the kind that openoffice tries to create, I'll go with the LaTeX
suite. Re book, it is scheduled to be read on a local book discussion
group. {!!!}
Partly off-topic. I'm sure that hundreds and hundreds remember
when i was having trouble with portupgrades. My streams slowed or
stopped. Steams and web connections and ftp: all flaky. I was _sure_
it was due to things not being kept
current, so I tried for more than a week and the new ports got wedged
or broke. BEsides breaking concrete with my head, once I had most
things working, i Swore that I was going to turn over the hosting to
somebody else. We have the BEST kernel in the known universe;
when there is a Deb/FreeBSD distro [and evverything works], life
will be complete.
Nine days ago, after doing my 4th and 5th reset on my router, it
died. I couldn't see that the LED labeled INTERNET wasn't lit.
I have always been very careful with the thing; it is less than five
years old. Nutshell, it took until noon last Monday before thought.org
was reconnected with the Real World. I'm slightly stubborn;
I'll get something working if it means reinstalling and upgrading
the 817 ports on my server. But that did not fix my busted router;
it was toast. I used my speech tools to ask what had gone
wrong with the unit and the technician said: iT burned out!
--
Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix
Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org
The 7.98a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org
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I have a question?
Can you use windows programs in freebsd? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: I have a question?
If you install wine, yes. On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Dieter dschoen...@frontier.com wrote: Can you use windows programs in freebsd? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: I have a question?
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Jack L. xxjack1...@gmail.com wrote: If you install wine, yes. Uhmm good luck with that, I think maybe we should ask him to define programs On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Dieter dschoen...@frontier.com wrote: Can you use windows programs in freebsd? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: I have a question?
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Outback Dingo outbackdi...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Jack L. xxjack1...@gmail.com wrote: If you install wine, yes. If all else fails, you can always install virtualbox and install windows to run windows apps on freebsd. That works great for my needs :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: 64-bit Windows XP NDIS drivers giving missing symbols
On July 24, 2010 08:04AM, Paul B Mahol wrote: On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Gautham Ganapathy gauth...@gmail.com wrote: Hi I have an Alienware m11x with a Dell 1520 wireless minicard (Broadcom BCM4353 chipset). It comes with only Windows 7 drivers, but I was able to download Windows XP drivers seperately. However, after I generate the kernel module (I am using the 64-bit WinXP driver and freebsd amd64), I get errors when I try to load it. It says that the following symbols are missing ZwQueryInformationFile ZwCreateFile ZwReadFile IoUnregisterPlugPlayNotification ExFreePoolWithTag According to MSDN, these were introduced in Windows 2000. Is there any way of getting this driver running ? Such symbols are completly irrelevant for normal operation, because NDISulator crash on amd64 during driver initialization. I fixed this in my own git repo, but fpudna in kernel mode (my understanding is that it is source of panic when trying to use ndis0 device on amd64), present only on amd64 is still not yet fixed - this should be addressed with fpu_kern KPI available on CURRENT - not done yet... Feel free to send patches. Hi Would these changes be available in 8.2-release? Regards Gautham PS - Sorry, I lost the original copy of the thread. Had to copy this from an archive. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: I have a question?
Jack L. xxjack1...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Dieter dschoen...@frontier.com wrote: Can you use windows programs in freebsd? If you install wine, yes. _and_ if the windows programs you want to run _work_ in wine. Wine intends to become a complete win32 implementation, but: 1. It's not there yet. Many applications run well. Some run passably. Some don't work at all. 2. Too many windows programs take advantage of undocumented, unsupported windows hacks that can't ever be made to work in wine. Copy protection schemes are among the worst offenders in this area. Check the wine AppDB at http://appdb.winehq.org for the particular windows programs you want to run. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FreeBSD and SSD drives
Chip Camden sterl...@camdensoftware.com wrote: But for users who do not wish to learn anything ... the Microsoft Way fits the bill. ^ Of course. It's his company. But does it fit anyone else? ;-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
