Re: How Critical Is It To Use an ISP Running FreeBSD or BSD/OS?
Kevin Stevens wrote: [snip] In an ISP of any size, the CS reps will be almost totally divorced from the infrastructure team. What OS' they support for customers has very little to do with what they run on the backside. KeS True there. They only support Bill's software and a Mac just because it are the two most used OS'. (You can't say that from Linux because every distribution is different and has different paths and such) For example, here in the Netherlands we have several ISPs where the service desk employees simply have a list in fromt of them with questions, but know nothing about computers at all. You can't expect of them to figure out how to get your connection up and running with all those Linux distributions, or BSD projects. Would be rather a PITA if one has an HP-UX, AIX or ALPHA machine serving as an internet gateway, don't you think? Anyway, my ISP (Demon, for the Dutch folks on the list) is running FreeBSD (at least, their webservers. Not really sure about the rest), and they don't give support on FreeBSD either. They only support Windows and Mac as well. Which makes sense to me though. They have skilled folks on their service desk, but still you can't expect of them to know various of *NIX flavors. So it got a little bit long, but at least you have my two cents. Cheers, Jorn ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How Critical Is It To Use an ISP Running FreeBSD or BSD/OS?
Jerry McAllister wrote: On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:09:13 -0400, Bob Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I remember reading in The Complete FreeBSD, by Greg Lehey, that you'll be better off with an ISP that runs FreeBSD or BSD/OS. Can anyone provide a scenario(s) where this would be most apparent? I don't know Greg's reasoning for that statement but it does seem rather wrong to me. Would you judge a waitress on their choice of shoes? Of course not, you'd judge them based on their service. Would you decide on who to hire to build you a fence based on what kind of screwdriver they use? Heh, only if it was the *wrong* kind. Why would you choose an ISP based on what tool they use to provide you with a service? Well, first it reflects on their judgement. If they run on FreeBSD, I give them credit for better jedgement. Secondly, if you have problems or questions, you are more likely to get an intelligent answer if they run one of the BSDs. If they run MS, they are more likely to just say they don't support anything different when you ask. jerry I had an emotional outburst here; whether laughing, or crying, I'm not sure. Also, I'm not sure *why* --- either because it's a complete untruth, and very sad, or very funny; or else because it's absolutely correct and very sad, or somewhat funny. I had to go back on my old Winbox to find this exchange, and it's quite unfortunate that as of yet, I can't find their reply: ME: -- To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is there any chance you guys are interested in fixing this issue??? Kevin Kinsey QUOTED: - Reporting-MTA: dns;smtp.x.com* Received-From-MTA: dns;[204.213.64.2] Arrival-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:32:17 -0600 Final-Recipient: rfc822;[EMAIL PROTECTED] Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: smtp;450 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [204.213.64.32] THEM (paraphrased, as I can't find the message**): -- We are sorry that we can't help with this, as our DNS is handled by the company that gives us our IP addresses... Kevin Kinsey DaleCo, S.P. *Yeah, I'm not really protecting anyone ... though the name won't resolve, there's any number of ways you can figure out who we're talking about if you really want to. Not that it matters that much, none of you use them (for which you should probably be grateful to Whomever) **But, as I stand here with upraised hand, and the other on a New Testament, so help me, this is what it said ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How Critical Is It To Use an ISP Running FreeBSD or BSD/OS?
If it is a small ISP, then the a unix like operating system on their servers might me someone there can help you. With large isps, its irrelivant. They will only support Windows, Mac Classic (os 9 or lower) and maybe OSX if you are lucky. That being said, I'd like to point out that some isps are willing to work with you. I started work in the computer industry in 98 at a very small isp. I was the first tech hired. I had experience when i started with Windows 3.1-95, NT 4, OS/2 Warp 3, and Redhat 5.0. By the time I left in 2000, I handled all odd os calls. Basically our techs could only handle windows 95, 98 and to some degree win 2k calls. I handled all NT4, OS/2, Linux, HP-UX (yeah we got some), Solaris, and Mac calls. if i wasn't there, customers were told to call during my next scheduled shift. The other techs wouldn't consider trying to help them. Often they just wanted dns servers, or phone numbers. The mere mention of another os scared the techs off. I was considered tier 2 support, web designer/webmaster and the NT sys admin at the company which only had 15 employees in 2000. We had about 4000 dialups and 1000 hosting accounts (mostly linux). In short, if you know explicit questions to ask then you can get help. If not, you are out of luck. I have to lie to SBC to get help with my DSL line when it goes down just because i have a router and non windows based oses in the house. :) Lucas Holt [EMAIL PROTECTED] FoolishGames.com (Jewel Fan Site) JustJournal.com (Free blogging) ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How Critical Is It To Use an ISP Running FreeBSD or BSD/OS?
Lucas Holt wrote: If it is a small ISP, then the a unix like operating system on their servers might me someone there can help you. With large isps, its irrelivant. They will only support Windows, Mac Classic (os 9 or lower) and maybe OSX if you are lucky. That being said, I'd like to point out that some isps are willing to work with you. I started work in the computer industry in 98 at a very small isp. I was the first tech hired. I had experience when i started with Windows 3.1-95, NT 4, OS/2 Warp 3, and Redhat 5.0. By the time I left in 2000, I handled all odd os calls. Basically our techs could only handle windows 95, 98 and to some degree win 2k calls. I handled all NT4, OS/2, Linux, HP-UX (yeah we got some), Solaris, and Mac calls. if i wasn't there, customers were told to call during my next scheduled shift. The other techs wouldn't consider trying to help them. Often they just wanted dns servers, or phone numbers. The mere mention of another os scared the techs off. I was considered tier 2 support, web designer/webmaster and the NT sys admin at the company which only had 15 employees in 2000. We had about 4000 dialups and 1000 hosting accounts (mostly linux). In short, if you know explicit questions to ask then you can get help. If not, you are out of luck. I have to lie to SBC to get help with my DSL line when it goes down just because i have a router and non windows based oses in the house. :) Lucas Holt [EMAIL PROTECTED] FoolishGames.com (Jewel Fan Site) JustJournal.com (Free blogging) Luke, Hopefully, I'll find an ISP committed to supporting the FreeBSD platform. Otherwise, I'll have to wait until I gain the expertise necessary to talk MS and translate that to FreeBSD. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Bob Perry -- I've learned that whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed. FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE-p2 #0 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
How Critical Is It To Use an ISP Running FreeBSD or BSD/OS?
Hello, I remember reading in The Complete FreeBSD, by Greg Lehey, that you'll be better off with an ISP that runs FreeBSD or BSD/OS. Can anyone provide a scenario(s) where this would be most apparent? I don't know what OS my ISP uses but I do know that they only support Windows and Mac platforms. I've run OS/2 and FreeBSD using their email services and never really needed technical support. Now, I'm considering a new ISP primarily due to cost. Also, considering obtaining my own domain name and exploring web hosting. I assume that recommending an ISP is inappropriate but if you know of any forums that have discussed ISPs for FreeBSD, feel free to recommend them. Thank you. -- I've learned that whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed. FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE-p2 #0 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How Critical Is It To Use an ISP Running FreeBSD or BSD/OS?
On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:09:13 -0400, Bob Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I remember reading in The Complete FreeBSD, by Greg Lehey, that you'll be better off with an ISP that runs FreeBSD or BSD/OS. Can anyone provide a scenario(s) where this would be most apparent? I don't know Greg's reasoning for that statement but it does seem rather wrong to me. Would you judge a waitress on their choice of shoes? Of course not, you'd judge them based on their service. Would you decide on who to hire to build you a fence based on what kind of screwdriver they use? Why would you choose an ISP based on what tool they use to provide you with a service? See how their service has been in the past and if their service meets your needs, that's all there really is to it. --roop ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How Critical Is It To Use an ISP Running FreeBSD or BSD/OS?
Bob Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I remember reading in The Complete FreeBSD, by Greg Lehey, that you'll be better off with an ISP that runs FreeBSD or BSD/OS. Can anyone provide a scenario(s) where this would be most apparent? If you have problems and call their tech support. A number of ISPs in the past, when I've had problems and called, they say, do this with Windows and when I say I'm not using Windows they reply that they don't support anything but, and therefore can't help me. That's been in spite of the fact that I've done everything reasonable to determine that the problem is _NOT_ on my end, they simply refuse to do _any_ diagnostic work if I wasn't using Windows. The situation seems to be getting better, and nowadays, I just lie and say I'm using Windows and execute the equivalent commands in FreeBSD and explain the result. I don't know what OS my ISP uses but I do know that they only support Windows and Mac platforms. I've run OS/2 and FreeBSD using their email services and never really needed technical support. As long as you never need tech support, you'll probably never have a problem, nor care what OS your ISP uses. After all, the Internet was designed to be OS-independent ... when everything is working correctly! Now, I'm considering a new ISP primarily due to cost. Also, considering obtaining my own domain name and exploring web hosting. I assume that recommending an ISP is inappropriate but if you know of any forums that have discussed ISPs for FreeBSD, feel free to recommend them. I don't think it's inappropriate. I don't know of any nationwide ISPs that support/use FreeBSD, but if you're in the Pittsburgh, PA area, city-net is FreeBSD friendly. Otherwise, you could give your location and if someone knows a FreeBSD friendly ISP in your area, I'm sure he'll let you know. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How Critical Is It To Use an ISP Running FreeBSD or BSD/OS?
Bob, There is a freebsd isp list, for those of us who operate isps and use freebsd for some functional element, up to and including user shell accounts. Why would it (choice of boxen) matter to you? You may not even be aware if your isp is virtual or facilities-based, let alone the os directly observed end-user services are platformed by. If you can't find non-MS tech support, then you've made the wrong choice. Eric ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How Critical Is It To Use an ISP Running FreeBSD or BSD/OS?
On Saturday 10 July 2004 04:20 pm, Bill Moran wrote: Bob Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I remember reading in The Complete FreeBSD, by Greg Lehey, that you'll be better off with an ISP that runs FreeBSD or BSD/OS. Can anyone provide a scenario(s) where this would be most apparent? If you have problems and call their tech support. A number of ISPs in the past, when I've had problems and called, they say, do this with Windows and when I say I'm not using Windows they reply that they don't support anything but, and therefore can't help me. That's been in spite of the fact that I've done everything reasonable to determine that the problem is _NOT_ on my end, they simply refuse to do _any_ diagnostic work if I wasn't using Windows. The situation seems to be getting better, and nowadays, I just lie and say I'm using Windows and execute the equivalent commands in FreeBSD and explain the result. I don't know what OS my ISP uses but I do know that they only support Windows and Mac platforms. I've run OS/2 and FreeBSD using their email services and never really needed technical support. As long as you never need tech support, you'll probably never have a problem, nor care what OS your ISP uses. After all, the Internet was designed to be OS-independent ... when everything is working correctly! Now, I'm considering a new ISP primarily due to cost. Also, considering obtaining my own domain name and exploring web hosting. I assume that recommending an ISP is inappropriate but if you know of any forums that have discussed ISPs for FreeBSD, feel free to recommend them. I don't think it's inappropriate. I don't know of any nationwide ISPs that support/use FreeBSD, but if you're in the Pittsburgh, PA area, city-net is FreeBSD friendly. Otherwise, you could give your location and if someone knows a FreeBSD friendly ISP in your area, I'm sure he'll let you know. Look at their web page with Netcraft, it will tell you what their web server is and I think that is a good clue as to what the rest of their setup. Use What's that site running at http://news.netcraft.com/ Kent -- Kent Stewart Richland, WA http://users.owt.com/kstewart/index.html ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How Critical Is It To Use an ISP Running FreeBSD or BSD/OS?
On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:09:13 -0400, Bob Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I remember reading in The Complete FreeBSD, by Greg Lehey, that you'll be better off with an ISP that runs FreeBSD or BSD/OS. Can anyone provide a scenario(s) where this would be most apparent? I don't know Greg's reasoning for that statement but it does seem rather wrong to me. Would you judge a waitress on their choice of shoes? Of course not, you'd judge them based on their service. Would you decide on who to hire to build you a fence based on what kind of screwdriver they use? Why would you choose an ISP based on what tool they use to provide you with a service? Well, first it reflects on their judgement. If they run on FreeBSD, I give them credit for better jedgement. Secondly, if you have problems or questions, you are more likely to get an intelligent answer if they run one of the BSDs. If they run MS, they are more likely to just say they don't support anything different when you ask. jerry See how their service has been in the past and if their service meets your needs, that's all there really is to it. Service with what? MS only or including other systems? jerry --roop ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How Critical Is It To Use an ISP Running FreeBSD or BSD/OS?
On Jul 10, 2004, at 17:33, Jerry McAllister wrote: On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:09:13 -0400, Bob Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I remember reading in The Complete FreeBSD, by Greg Lehey, that you'll be better off with an ISP that runs FreeBSD or BSD/OS. Can anyone provide a scenario(s) where this would be most apparent? I don't know Greg's reasoning for that statement but it does seem rather wrong to me. Would you judge a waitress on their choice of shoes? Of course not, you'd judge them based on their service. Would you decide on who to hire to build you a fence based on what kind of screwdriver they use? Why would you choose an ISP based on what tool they use to provide you with a service? Well, first it reflects on their judgement. If they run on FreeBSD, I give them credit for better jedgement. Secondly, if you have problems or questions, you are more likely to get an intelligent answer if they run one of the BSDs. If they run MS, they are more likely to just say they don't support anything different when you ask. In an ISP of any size, the CS reps will be almost totally divorced from the infrastructure team. What OS' they support for customers has very little to do with what they run on the backside. KeS ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
