Re: New work on installer? - Checked by AntiVir DEMO version -
Gary Kline wrote: I think we (theBSD's) are losing a lot of serious brain brainpower (and certainly lots of latent high-end talent) by not having a less-headbanging install. I've done it literally dozens of times; I still get flummoxed now and then. I've been using sysinstall for many years and quite often I think. I never thought that sysinstall or the installation of FreeBSD is a problem in any way. In my opinion, installing FreeBSD is easy and fast. cu, Uwe ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New work on installer? - Checked by AntiVir DEMO version -
Uwe Laverenz wrote: Gary Kline wrote: I think we (theBSD's) are losing a lot of serious brain brainpower (and certainly lots of latent high-end talent) by not having a less-headbanging install. I've done it literally dozens of times; I still get flummoxed now and then. I've been using sysinstall for many years and quite often I think. I never thought that sysinstall or the installation of FreeBSD is a problem in any way. In my opinion, installing FreeBSD is easy and fast. There _is_ a new next-gen installation program in the works for FreeBSD, but (like so many other open-source projects) it will only get done if people work on it. Recently, there hasn't been much interest in it. http://www.freebsd.org/projects/libh.html If you feel strongly about improving the installer, join the project, encourage others to join, and consider sponsoring a developer to get some headway made on it. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New work on installer?
On Mon, 17 May 2004 20:14:44 -0700 (PDT), Viktor Lazlo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 18 May 2004, Robert Storey wrote: On Mon, 17 May 2004 01:00:37 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has there been any new work on the installer or planned? If not, I would like to help... What about graphical? If you're looking to improve FreeBSD's user-friendliness, more usefual than a GUI installer would be a few network setup tools. To get some idea what I'm talking about, take a look at Slackware's netconfig and adsl-setup tools. These aren't GUI, just ncurses scripts, but very easy to use. When I was a FBSD newbie, one of my most frustrating experiences was having to manually write and modify /etc/ppp/options and /etc/ppp/ppp.conf. I think a lot of newbies get to this point, spend a few frustrating days tearing their hair out, and then give up and go back to Redhat or SUSE. A user-friendly GUI or ncurses script for configuring the new PF firewall would no doubt win a few converts too. Take a look at Guarddog (a Linux tool for IP tables) to get some idea. If you use sysinstall to configure the network it is very similar to Slackware's netconfig, except that it is faster and easier since it is all on once screen and will automatically probe for more information. I've never used dial-up under FreeBSD but there are ppp options in sysinstall as well so presumably it will configure that as well for you. For anyone wanting to set up dial-up or a cable modem with FreeBSD, the article at the URL below is simple and direct: URL: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2000/06/14/FreeBSD_Basics.html It just so happens the same author has just written a new article on FreeBSD networking. I haven't read it yet, but on the basis of her consistently excellent writing I'll recommend it anyway: URL: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2004/05/13/FreeBSD_Basics.html Jud ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fwd: Re: New work on installer?
It appears I may have neglected to cc the list with my initial reply - if not, apologies in advance for any duplication. --- Forwarded message --- From: Jud [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Matthew Seaman [EMAIL PROTECTED], slave-mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New work on installer? Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 05:35:25 -0400 On Mon, 17 May 2004 18:09:19 +0100, Matthew Seaman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 12:38:55PM +, slave-mike wrote: If one were to *not* use the installer to setup a FreeBSD system, (aka, like *old* dos, each step done manually), what are the manual steps involved? It's not something that I have at my finger-tips, as there's generally no need to install without the installer... However, an outline of the process would be something like this: - Boot up system from removable media (CD-Rom, floppy disk), or other external media (eg. Netboot (PXE)). - Slice and partition disk space appropriately - Install boot blocks or MBR if required - Create file systems on the partitions that require them. Temporarily mount the new file systems so that they can be written to. - Copy into place the kernel, kernel modules, the contents of the system directories like /lib, /bin, /sbin. /usr/bin, /usr/sbin This can be from a disk image or .tar file or similar on your installation media, or from any other system accessible over the network. - Edit the crucial configuration files (/etc/fstab, /etc/hosts, /etc/resolv.conf, /etc/rc.conf, ...) with appropriate data for the system. - Set a root password and possibly add other user accounts as required. - Reboot DragonFlyBSD is a fork of FreeBSD 4.x that, last I looked, lacks sysinstall. Except for DragonFly's 'cpdup' command (for which one could substitute 'tar' or something similar, I suppose), these instructions for installing DragonFly should therefore fairly closely mirror a sysinstall-less FreeBSD install from a convenient ISO: URL: http://www.dragonflybsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/src/nrelease/root/README?rev=1.12 Jud ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
New work on installer?
Has there been any new work on the installer or planned? If not, I would like to help... What about graphical? ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New work on installer?
On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 01:00:37AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has there been any new work on the installer or planned? If not, I would like to help... What about graphical? There's been plenty of planning and various projects to produce something better, but to the best of my knowledge all such efforts have basically ground to a halt. Probably the one that got closest to actually getting into production was the libh project -- http://www.freebsd.org/projects/libh.html but that seems to have imploded under a too ambitious development plan, and apparently nothing new has been produced by it since 2002. Note that the system installer tends to be quite a sore point around the various FreeBSD lists, with all sorts of claims about the current sysinstall(8) ranging from loud praises to downright hostility, often by people who haven't got the foggiest idea of how to improve things. It's also a topic that regularly gets bikeshedded to death. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK pgpyn8UO9Yluk.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New work on installer?
If one were to *not* use the installer to setup a FreeBSD system, (aka, like *old* dos, each step done manually), what are the manual steps involved? Matthew Seaman wrote: On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 01:00:37AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has there been any new work on the installer or planned? If not, I would like to help... What about graphical? There's been plenty of planning and various projects to produce something better, but to the best of my knowledge all such efforts have basically ground to a halt. Probably the one that got closest to actually getting into production was the libh project -- http://www.freebsd.org/projects/libh.html but that seems to have imploded under a too ambitious development plan, and apparently nothing new has been produced by it since 2002. Note that the system installer tends to be quite a sore point around the various FreeBSD lists, with all sorts of claims about the current sysinstall(8) ranging from loud praises to downright hostility, often by people who haven't got the foggiest idea of how to improve things. It's also a topic that regularly gets bikeshedded to death. Cheers, Matthew ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New work on installer?
On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 12:38:55PM +, slave-mike wrote: If one were to *not* use the installer to setup a FreeBSD system, (aka, like *old* dos, each step done manually), what are the manual steps involved? It's not something that I have at my finger-tips, as there's generally no need to install without the installer... However, an outline of the process would be something like this: - Boot up system from removable media (CD-Rom, floppy disk), or other external media (eg. Netboot (PXE)). - Slice and partition disk space appropriately - Install boot blocks or MBR if required - Create file systems on the partitions that require them. Temporarily mount the new file systems so that they can be written to. - Copy into place the kernel, kernel modules, the contents of the system directories like /lib, /bin, /sbin. /usr/bin, /usr/sbin This can be from a disk image or .tar file or similar on your installation media, or from any other system accessible over the network. - Edit the crucial configuration files (/etc/fstab, /etc/hosts, /etc/resolv.conf, /etc/rc.conf, ...) with appropriate data for the system. - Set a root password and possibly add other user accounts as required. - Reboot I think that covers everything necessary. Of course, actually carrying out all of these steps manually is another matter. You will have to make copious notes as you go along, as very often a later stage will require data (partition sizes, device names etc.) generated in an earlier one. This should give you a basic system installation, up and running in multiuser mode. If you want to create a vinum root partition or use various non-standard hardware or install via a serial console, you'll have to modify things somewhat, but the whole process should be quite similar overall. Beyond this, there is still a huge amount of stuff to do: configuring extra servers, creating user accounts, installing 3rd party software (perl, X Windows, cvsup, portupgrade etc.), getting hold of the latest ports and system sources for whatever branches you choose to use, building and installing an up-to-date system or using FreeBSD Update to achieve the same thing, building a customized kernel, security lockdown, testing, etc., etc. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK pgpkRGfPrmkd5.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New work on installer?
On Mon, 17 May 2004 01:00:37 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has there been any new work on the installer or planned? If not, I would like to help... What about graphical? If you're looking to improve FreeBSD's user-friendliness, more usefual than a GUI installer would be a few network setup tools. To get some idea what I'm talking about, take a look at Slackware's netconfig and adsl-setup tools. These aren't GUI, just ncurses scripts, but very easy to use. When I was a FBSD newbie, one of my most frustrating experiences was having to manually write and modify /etc/ppp/options and /etc/ppp/ppp.conf. I think a lot of newbies get to this point, spend a few frustrating days tearing their hair out, and then give up and go back to Redhat or SUSE. A user-friendly GUI or ncurses script for configuring the new PF firewall would no doubt win a few converts too. Take a look at Guarddog (a Linux tool for IP tables) to get some idea. Just my 2 cents. regards, Robert ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New work on installer? - Checked by AntiVir DEMO version -
On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 06:38:55AM +0800, Robert Storey wrote: On Mon, 17 May 2004 01:00:37 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has there been any new work on the installer or planned? If not, I would like to help... What about graphical? If you're looking to improve FreeBSD's user-friendliness, more usefual than a GUI installer would be a few network setup tools. To get some idea what I'm talking about, take a look at Slackware's netconfig and adsl-setup tools. These aren't GUI, just ncurses scripts, but very easy to use. When I was a FBSD newbie, one of my most frustrating experiences was having to manually write and modify /etc/ppp/options and /etc/ppp/ppp.conf. I think a lot of newbies get to this point, spend a few frustrating days tearing their hair out, and then give up and go back to Redhat or SUSE. I think we (theBSD's) are losing a lot of serious brain brainpower (and certainly lots of latent high-end talent) by not having a less-headbanging install. I've done it literally dozens of times; I still get flummoxed now and then. What I would do for GUI/curses build/install would have a liberal (much space/slice) as the Default. Then have a lynx or links reader point the new users to a few choice pages if case they want to fine-tune. How much hacking would it take to have our current /stand/sysinstall have a web front end? A user-friendly GUI or ncurses script for configuring the new PF firewall would no doubt win a few converts too. Take a look at Guarddog (a Linux tool for IP tables) to get some idea. Just my 2 cents. regards, Robert For all its problems, we're doing just-barely well enough. The BSD projects are volunteer; this makes it difficult to ask *too* much. Even I sleep now and then;) As for all the griping in getting a new/improved installer-- no wonder the world is going to hell in a handbasket. If we-geeks can't agree on something this basic, no wonder the imbiciles du monde can't come to a reasonable compromises. 'n' dat's my dime's worth, gary ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.thought.org Public service Unix ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New work on installer? - Checked by AntiVir DEMO version -
On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 06:03:09PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 06:38:55AM +0800, Robert Storey wrote: On Mon, 17 May 2004 01:00:37 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has there been any new work on the installer or planned? If not, I would like to help... What about graphical? If you're looking to improve FreeBSD's user-friendliness, more usefual than a GUI installer would be a few network setup tools. To get some idea what I'm talking about, take a look at Slackware's netconfig and adsl-setup tools. These aren't GUI, just ncurses scripts, but very easy to use. When I was a FBSD newbie, one of my most frustrating experiences was having to manually write and modify /etc/ppp/options and /etc/ppp/ppp.conf. I think a lot of newbies get to this point, spend a few frustrating days tearing their hair out, and then give up and go back to Redhat or SUSE. I think we (theBSD's) are losing a lot of serious brain brainpower (and certainly lots of latent high-end talent) by not having a less-headbanging install. I've done it literally dozens of times; I still get flummoxed now and then. What I would do for GUI/curses build/install would have a liberal (much space/slice) as the Default. Then have a lynx or links reader point the new users to a few choice pages if case they want to fine-tune. How much hacking would it take to have our current /stand/sysinstall have a web front end? A lot, probably. If you people really want a new installer for FreeBSD this badly, put your money where your mouth is and set up a fund to pay one or more developers to work full-time on creating one. Kris pgpUH03oHmMeE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New work on installer?
On Tue, 18 May 2004, Robert Storey wrote: On Mon, 17 May 2004 01:00:37 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has there been any new work on the installer or planned? If not, I would like to help... What about graphical? If you're looking to improve FreeBSD's user-friendliness, more usefual than a GUI installer would be a few network setup tools. To get some idea what I'm talking about, take a look at Slackware's netconfig and adsl-setup tools. These aren't GUI, just ncurses scripts, but very easy to use. When I was a FBSD newbie, one of my most frustrating experiences was having to manually write and modify /etc/ppp/options and /etc/ppp/ppp.conf. I think a lot of newbies get to this point, spend a few frustrating days tearing their hair out, and then give up and go back to Redhat or SUSE. A user-friendly GUI or ncurses script for configuring the new PF firewall would no doubt win a few converts too. Take a look at Guarddog (a Linux tool for IP tables) to get some idea. If you use sysinstall to configure the network it is very similar to Slackware's netconfig, except that it is faster and easier since it is all on once screen and will automatically probe for more information. I've never used dial-up under FreeBSD but there are ppp options in sysinstall as well so presumably it will configure that as well for you. Cheers, Viktor ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
