Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On Apr 27, 2006, at 1:52 PM, Bill Moran wrote: On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:47:37 -0500 James Riendeau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why? Mac OS X has a complete unix freebsd-like core called darwin ( http://www.darwin.org ). There's no reason to install freebsd on it. Just install Mac Developer Tools (included in the Applications folder), compile your favorite progs and go. Have you actually tried this? Installing ports from FreeBSD is about 50x easier than getting software compiled/installed on a Mac. I've been working with the Macs here at the office for a few weeks, and I've come to realize just how wonderfully well-maintained FreeBSD's ports are! I'd take FreeBSD over MacOS any day. Perhaps it will get better over time, but I'm not impressed with it right now. At the risk of digressing on this topic, I want to add that I am actually at this point deciding between FreeBSD for the migration (i.e. 4.x on an old Gateway to 6.x on a Intel Mac Mini) and Ubuntu. The idea of moving to Ubuntu is that it might be simpler and less time-consuming to maintain a package-based system rather than building so much from source as I end up doing on FreeBSD. And that the fact it is a GUI-focused distribution might simplify things a bit (the idea being that Ubuntu has a very set design, less open-ended than FreeBSD, perhaps easier to upgrade?). The GUI might also help when others who are less unix-savvy than I have to or want to work with the server. I considered migrating to OSX on the mini, and I do maintain an OSX Server machine at work, but I don't like the lack of a port system. Everything has to be built and fitted in manually, and all monitoring of updates is also manual labor. Fink has its usefulness for desktop software, but the server packages are lacking. For the record, this server runs apache/php/mysql, exim, cyrus-imapd, proftpd, netatalk, samba, spamassassin, clamav, squirrelmail, mailman, and DNS. Stuff like that. It has about 20 users, it isn't super busy. So, how about it? Is the concept of running this off of Ubuntu being easier than FreeBSD just a pipe-dream? I have messed with Debian and Ubuntu, but never tried to run a server off of either. I would love to hear from people who have been down both roads, whether there is some sense to it, or if I should just stick with FreeBSD. Thanks for any insight, and thanks for the responses to this thread thus far... -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 02:03:20AM -0700, Mark Edwards wrote: So, how about it? Is the concept of running this off of Ubuntu being easier than FreeBSD just a pipe-dream? I have messed with Debian and Ubuntu, but never tried to run a server off of either. I would love to hear from people who have been down both roads, whether there is some sense to it, or if I should just stick with FreeBSD. A good way to make the right decision would be intensive testing of the systems you don't know (Debian/Ubuntu). Install them, read about them, see how they fit your needs. From my experience, running a server using a Debian-based system is a lot easier and safer (as long as you choose one of their stable releases). You get a well-tested set of software that does not change if you don't want it. Installing the latest security fixes is as easy as typing apt-get update followed by an apt-get upgrade. The downside with running stable is that after a while the software will be somewhat outdated. This is not a problem for servers, but many people don't like old software on their desktops (Debian-Stable aka Sarge comes with Gnome 2.8, for example). This is one of the problems that Ubuntu tries to solve: they try to get a new release done twice a year. A quite common answer to the question which distribution? is: Debian-Stable for servers, Ubuntu for workstations. hth, Uwe ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
Mark Edwards wrote: At the risk of digressing on this topic, I want to add that I am actually at this point deciding between FreeBSD for the migration (i.e. 4.x on an old Gateway to 6.x on a Intel Mac Mini) and Ubuntu. The idea of moving to Ubuntu is that it might be simpler and less time-consuming to maintain a package-based system rather than building so much from source as I end up doing on FreeBSD. And that the fact it is a GUI-focused distribution might simplify things a bit (the idea being that Ubuntu has a very set design, less open-ended than FreeBSD, perhaps easier to upgrade?). The GUI might also help when others who are less unix-savvy than I have to or want to work with the server. I considered migrating to OSX on the mini, and I do maintain an OSX Server machine at work, but I don't like the lack of a port system. Everything has to be built and fitted in manually, and all monitoring of updates is also manual labor. Fink has its usefulness for desktop software, but the server packages are lacking. For the record, this server runs apache/php/mysql, exim, cyrus-imapd, proftpd, netatalk, samba, spamassassin, clamav, squirrelmail, mailman, and DNS. Stuff like that. It has about 20 users, it isn't super busy. So, how about it? Is the concept of running this off of Ubuntu being easier than FreeBSD just a pipe-dream? I have messed with Debian and Ubuntu, but never tried to run a server off of either. I would love to hear from people who have been down both roads, whether there is some sense to it, or if I should just stick with FreeBSD. Thanks for any insight, and thanks for the responses to this thread thus far... -- Mark Edwards Ubuntu has a pretty good package manager system, open the little window, find the program you want, and it installs it. It's nice, much better than that RPM stuff. No ports system like freeBSD, but still nice. The GUI should not be an issue. You should take a look at DesktopBSD http://www.desktopbsd.net/ which is freeBSD configured for the GUI right off the install , much nicer on an environment where others may be using it. Aside from these desktop friendly configurations, it's exactly the same as any other freeBSD. This is the route I would go if I wanted GUIness. -John ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
Why? Mac OS X has a complete unix freebsd-like core called darwin ( http://www.darwin.org ). There's no reason to install freebsd on it. Just install Mac Developer Tools (included in the Applications folder), compile your favorite progs and go. James Riendeau MMI Computer Support Technician 1300 University Ave Rm. 436, Dept. of MedMicro Madison, WI 53706 Phone: (608) 262-3351 After-hours Phone: (608) 260-2696 Fax: (608) 262-8418 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: Does anyone know if the Intel Macs can boot and install FreeBSD, now that the firmware includes BIOS compatibility? Has anyone seen it happen? I'm thinking of using a Mac Mini as a quiet living-room server. Thanks! -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
Oops. Looks like the URL changed. It is: http://opensource.apple.com/ -james On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:47 PM, James Riendeau wrote: Why? Mac OS X has a complete unix freebsd-like core called darwin ( http://www.darwin.org ). There's no reason to install freebsd on it. Just install Mac Developer Tools (included in the Applications folder), compile your favorite progs and go. James Riendeau MMI Computer Support Technician 1300 University Ave Rm. 436, Dept. of MedMicro Madison, WI 53706 Phone: (608) 262-3351 After-hours Phone: (608) 260-2696 Fax: (608) 262-8418 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: Does anyone know if the Intel Macs can boot and install FreeBSD, now that the firmware includes BIOS compatibility? Has anyone seen it happen? I'm thinking of using a Mac Mini as a quiet living-room server. Thanks! -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:47:37 -0500 James Riendeau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why? Mac OS X has a complete unix freebsd-like core called darwin ( http://www.darwin.org ). There's no reason to install freebsd on it. Just install Mac Developer Tools (included in the Applications folder), compile your favorite progs and go. Have you actually tried this? Installing ports from FreeBSD is about 50x easier than getting software compiled/installed on a Mac. I've been working with the Macs here at the office for a few weeks, and I've come to realize just how wonderfully well-maintained FreeBSD's ports are! I'd take FreeBSD over MacOS any day. Perhaps it will get better over time, but I'm not impressed with it right now. On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: Does anyone know if the Intel Macs can boot and install FreeBSD, now that the firmware includes BIOS compatibility? Has anyone seen it happen? I'm thinking of using a Mac Mini as a quiet living-room server. Thanks! -- Bill Moran Collaborative Fusion Inc. IMPORTANT: This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient (or the individual responsible for the delivery of this message to an intended recipient), please be advised that any re-use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
Because I want to run FreeBSD, not Darwin. This is for a server, not for a desktop. I'm used to FreeBSD, and I am migrating an existing machine over. On Apr 27, 2006, at 1:49 PM, James Riendeau wrote: Oops. Looks like the URL changed. It is: http:// opensource.apple.com/ -james On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:47 PM, James Riendeau wrote: Why? Mac OS X has a complete unix freebsd-like core called darwin ( http://www.darwin.org ). There's no reason to install freebsd on it. Just install Mac Developer Tools (included in the Applications folder), compile your favorite progs and go. James Riendeau MMI Computer Support Technician 1300 University Ave Rm. 436, Dept. of MedMicro Madison, WI 53706 Phone: (608) 262-3351 After-hours Phone: (608) 260-2696 Fax: (608) 262-8418 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: Does anyone know if the Intel Macs can boot and install FreeBSD, now that the firmware includes BIOS compatibility? Has anyone seen it happen? I'm thinking of using a Mac Mini as a quiet living-room server. Thanks! -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
A mac mini is an odd machine to make into a server, but no matter. I doubt you'll run into any issues with installing it. Darwin is nice, but it was developed to be the underlying layer of the finder GUI. And the freeBSD ports system is so much nicer than any other nix install system that there's no comparison. -JOhn Mark Edwards wrote: Because I want to run FreeBSD, not Darwin. This is for a server, not for a desktop. I'm used to FreeBSD, and I am migrating an existing machine over. On Apr 27, 2006, at 1:49 PM, James Riendeau wrote: Oops. Looks like the URL changed. It is: http://opensource.apple.com/ -james On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:47 PM, James Riendeau wrote: Why? Mac OS X has a complete unix freebsd-like core called darwin ( http://www.darwin.org ). There's no reason to install freebsd on it. Just install Mac Developer Tools (included in the Applications folder), compile your favorite progs and go. James Riendeau MMI Computer Support Technician 1300 University Ave Rm. 436, Dept. of MedMicro Madison, WI 53706 Phone: (608) 262-3351 After-hours Phone: (608) 260-2696 Fax: (608) 262-8418 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: Does anyone know if the Intel Macs can boot and install FreeBSD, now that the firmware includes BIOS compatibility? Has anyone seen it happen? I'm thinking of using a Mac Mini as a quiet living-room server. Thanks! -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On Apr 27, 2006, at 2:52 PM, Bill Moran wrote: On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:47:37 -0500 James Riendeau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why? Mac OS X has a complete unix freebsd-like core called darwin ( http://www.darwin.org ). There's no reason to install freebsd on it. Just install Mac Developer Tools (included in the Applications folder), compile your favorite progs and go. Have you actually tried this? Installing ports from FreeBSD is about 50x easier than getting software compiled/installed on a Mac. I've been working with the Macs here at the office for a few weeks, and I've come to realize just how wonderfully well-maintained FreeBSD's ports are! I'd take FreeBSD over MacOS any day. Perhaps it will get better over time, but I'm not impressed with it right now. Depends what you are trying to do but there are two ports systems for Mac OS X which make it about (they say) as easy as the FreeBSD ports system. One is called fink and the other something like darwin-ports. Also, many popular packages now exist in precompiled app form or with installer packages. I use FreeBSD on my servers, except for one Mac based server, and prefer it for my servers. However, for a home based server, I would probably leave the Mac OS X on there. There are all sorts of media advantages and you can easily get the home-server type stuff running and it is supported. In fact, my home-based office also runs off a different Mac OS X server with Mac OS X (and a windows box or two) clients. Chad --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
The Mac Mini is fast, small, quiet, and cheap. Why is it not a good cheap server? On Apr 27, 2006, at 1:58 PM, John Cruz wrote: A mac mini is an odd machine to make into a server, but no matter. I doubt you'll run into any issues with installing it. Darwin is nice, but it was developed to be the underlying layer of the finder GUI. And the freeBSD ports system is so much nicer than any other nix install system that there's no comparison. -JOhn Mark Edwards wrote: Because I want to run FreeBSD, not Darwin. This is for a server, not for a desktop. I'm used to FreeBSD, and I am migrating an existing machine over. On Apr 27, 2006, at 1:49 PM, James Riendeau wrote: Oops. Looks like the URL changed. It is: http:// opensource.apple.com/ -james On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:47 PM, James Riendeau wrote: Why? Mac OS X has a complete unix freebsd-like core called darwin ( http://www.darwin.org ). There's no reason to install freebsd on it. Just install Mac Developer Tools (included in the Applications folder), compile your favorite progs and go. James Riendeau MMI Computer Support Technician 1300 University Ave Rm. 436, Dept. of MedMicro Madison, WI 53706 Phone: (608) 262-3351 After-hours Phone: (608) 260-2696 Fax: (608) 262-8418 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: Does anyone know if the Intel Macs can boot and install FreeBSD, now that the firmware includes BIOS compatibility? Has anyone seen it happen? I'm thinking of using a Mac Mini as a quiet living-room server. Thanks! -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On Thursday 27 April 2006 22:03, Mark Edwards wrote: Does anyone know if the Intel Macs can boot and install FreeBSD, now that the firmware includes BIOS compatibility? Has anyone seen it happen? I'm thinking of using a Mac Mini as a quiet living-room server. Thanks! Have a look at the mailinglist archives of the FreeBSD-current mailling list. There was a discussion over there about this about 2-3 weeks ago. Maxim Sobolev got FreeBSD to boot on a Mac Intel after some minor changes. grtz, Daan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:10 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: The Mac Mini is fast, small, quiet, and cheap. Why is it not a good cheap server? I would only be concerned about the disk depending on what sort of server you are intending to have. I do not know but assume that they still use the laptop 2.5 drives which are not 24/7 rated. Probably doesn't matter for most home servers. Lack of storage space unless you start hooking up external drives. What sort of server are you intending? I am actually thinking about using Mac Mini machines for IMAP and SMTP front ends using NFS mounted backend storage due to their size and low power draw. I can stick many of them in the same place that a 2U rack unit would go and with fans blowing data center A/C air across them there should be no heat issues and with the backend NFS storage, all the actual mail itself would be processed off-disk so the disks would basically get no work out... Chad On Apr 27, 2006, at 1:58 PM, John Cruz wrote: A mac mini is an odd machine to make into a server, but no matter. I doubt you'll run into any issues with installing it. Darwin is nice, but it was developed to be the underlying layer of the finder GUI. And the freeBSD ports system is so much nicer than any other nix install system that there's no comparison. -JOhn Mark Edwards wrote: Because I want to run FreeBSD, not Darwin. This is for a server, not for a desktop. I'm used to FreeBSD, and I am migrating an existing machine over. On Apr 27, 2006, at 1:49 PM, James Riendeau wrote: Oops. Looks like the URL changed. It is: http:// opensource.apple.com/ -james On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:47 PM, James Riendeau wrote: Why? Mac OS X has a complete unix freebsd-like core called darwin ( http://www.darwin.org ). There's no reason to install freebsd on it. Just install Mac Developer Tools (included in the Applications folder), compile your favorite progs and go. James Riendeau MMI Computer Support Technician 1300 University Ave Rm. 436, Dept. of MedMicro Madison, WI 53706 Phone: (608) 262-3351 After-hours Phone: (608) 260-2696 Fax: (608) 262-8418 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: Does anyone know if the Intel Macs can boot and install FreeBSD, now that the firmware includes BIOS compatibility? Has anyone seen it happen? I'm thinking of using a Mac Mini as a quiet living-room server. Thanks! -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:08:37 -0600 Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 27, 2006, at 2:52 PM, Bill Moran wrote: On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:47:37 -0500 James Riendeau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why? Mac OS X has a complete unix freebsd-like core called darwin ( http://www.darwin.org ). There's no reason to install freebsd on it. Just install Mac Developer Tools (included in the Applications folder), compile your favorite progs and go. Have you actually tried this? Installing ports from FreeBSD is about 50x easier than getting software compiled/installed on a Mac. I've been working with the Macs here at the office for a few weeks, and I've come to realize just how wonderfully well-maintained FreeBSD's ports are! I'd take FreeBSD over MacOS any day. Perhaps it will get better over time, but I'm not impressed with it right now. Depends what you are trying to do but there are two ports systems for Mac OS X which make it about (they say) as easy as the FreeBSD ports system. One is called fink and the other something like darwin-ports. Also, many popular packages now exist in precompiled app form or with installer packages. I haven't tried Fink, but that's because a number of people warned me to avoid it. That could have been bad info, though. darwin-ports didn't work for me at all. I could get it to do nothing once installed. The instructions seemed simple enough, but just didn't work. -- Bill Moran Collaborative Fusion Inc. IMPORTANT: This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient (or the individual responsible for the delivery of this message to an intended recipient), please be advised that any re-use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:22 PM, Bill Moran wrote: I haven't tried Fink, but that's because a number of people warned me to avoid it. That could have been bad info, though. darwin-ports didn't work for me at all. I could get it to do nothing once installed. The instructions seemed simple enough, but just didn't work. I don't use either as my real servers are all based on FreeBSD but in the Mac OS X lists I hang out in lots of people use both and have no problems. I don't know what your issues were with darwin-ports, so I cannot address them, but for the archive sake, wanted to say that lots of other people successfully use both. It all depends on what sort of server you want to run as well. A small home server doesn't need to build a ton of ports and for that OS X might be easier for most people. The OP likes FreeBSD so that is why he was asking, and that is his prerogative. No arguments there. I must say I always run into issues with the FreeBSD ports system myself, probably mostly from my own ignorance, but I have problems where ports assume /usr/local for dependencies even when both the dependency and the new port I am trying to install have a PREFIX set for them other than /usr/local, for example. best Chad --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On Apr 27, 2006, at 2:21 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:10 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: The Mac Mini is fast, small, quiet, and cheap. Why is it not a good cheap server? I would only be concerned about the disk depending on what sort of server you are intending to have. I do not know but assume that they still use the laptop 2.5 drives which are not 24/7 rated. Probably doesn't matter for most home servers. Lack of storage space unless you start hooking up external drives. What sort of server are you intending? I am actually thinking about using Mac Mini machines for IMAP and SMTP front ends using NFS mounted backend storage due to their size and low power draw. I can stick many of them in the same place that a 2U rack unit would go and with fans blowing data center A/C air across them there should be no heat issues and with the backend NFS storage, all the actual mail itself would be processed off-disk so the disks would basically get no work out... Fair points, and granted its not exactly a robust powerhouse machine. But certainly enough for a non-critical web/mail server. The internal drive is definitely a potential weak link. Its indeed a 2.5 Seagate laptop drive. That brings up an important point. I would want to hook up a USB2.0 or Firewire hard drive to the machine, either as a boot drive, a backup drive, or both (two drives). How is FreeBSD's support for USB or Firewire? Can one boot from these connections? Is it reliable enough for server use? In any case, this is a significant upgrade from my current box, which is a Gateway Pentium Pro 180Mhz tower with 128MB of RAM and two IDE internal drives, running FreeBSD 4.11. Why such a box? Its relatively quiet, and it was free (from the garbage even). Its been running my web/mail for 4 years with almost no downtime though... :-) -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On Apr 27, 2006, at 4:59 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: On Apr 27, 2006, at 2:21 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: That brings up an important point. I would want to hook up a USB2.0 or Firewire hard drive to the machine, either as a boot drive, a backup drive, or both (two drives). How is FreeBSD's support for USB or Firewire? Can one boot from these connections? Is it reliable enough for server use? We've got a FreeBSD 5.x NFS/Samba/AppleTalk file server at work using Lacie firewire drives (purchased at the local Mac store in keeping with the thread) Works great. Just replaced one of the drives that was starting to report errors during rsync. Drive was about 2 years old. The other drives are still going strong. Dan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On Apr 27, 2006, at 4:45 PM, Dan Busarow wrote: On Apr 27, 2006, at 4:59 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: On Apr 27, 2006, at 2:21 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: That brings up an important point. I would want to hook up a USB2.0 or Firewire hard drive to the machine, either as a boot drive, a backup drive, or both (two drives). How is FreeBSD's support for USB or Firewire? Can one boot from these connections? Is it reliable enough for server use? We've got a FreeBSD 5.x NFS/Samba/AppleTalk file server at work using Lacie firewire drives (purchased at the local Mac store in keeping with the thread) Works great. Just replaced one of the drives that was starting to report errors during rsync. Drive was about 2 years old. The other drives are still going strong. Dan Does it boot from Firewire, or is that just for storage? Is the machine a Mac? An Intel Mac? Thanks! -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On Thursday, April 27, 2006, at 05:49 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: On Apr 27, 2006, at 4:45 PM, Dan Busarow wrote: On Apr 27, 2006, at 4:59 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: On Apr 27, 2006, at 2:21 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: That brings up an important point. I would want to hook up a USB2.0 or Firewire hard drive to the machine, either as a boot drive, a backup drive, or both (two drives). How is FreeBSD's support for USB or Firewire? Can one boot from these connections? Is it reliable enough for server use? We've got a FreeBSD 5.x NFS/Samba/AppleTalk file server at work using Lacie firewire drives (purchased at the local Mac store in keeping with the thread) Works great. Just replaced one of the drives that was starting to report errors during rsync. Drive was about 2 years old. The other drives are still going strong. Dan Does it boot from Firewire, or is that just for storage? Is the machine a Mac? An Intel Mac? Sorry, forgot to comment on that. The server is a normal Intel box booting off an ATA drive. The firewire drive are just storage. Dan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
I didn't say it wasn't good, I just said it was an odd choice. It's not very often you hear Mac Mini Server thrown together. Keep us posted on how it all works out. :) Mark Edwards wrote: The Mac Mini is fast, small, quiet, and cheap. Why is it not a good cheap server? On Apr 27, 2006, at 1:58 PM, John Cruz wrote: A mac mini is an odd machine to make into a server, but no matter. I doubt you'll run into any issues with installing it. Darwin is nice, but it was developed to be the underlying layer of the finder GUI. And the freeBSD ports system is so much nicer than any other nix install system that there's no comparison. -JOhn Mark Edwards wrote: Because I want to run FreeBSD, not Darwin. This is for a server, not for a desktop. I'm used to FreeBSD, and I am migrating an existing machine over. On Apr 27, 2006, at 1:49 PM, James Riendeau wrote: Oops. Looks like the URL changed. It is: http://opensource.apple.com/ -james On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:47 PM, James Riendeau wrote: Why? Mac OS X has a complete unix freebsd-like core called darwin ( http://www.darwin.org ). There's no reason to install freebsd on it. Just install Mac Developer Tools (included in the Applications folder), compile your favorite progs and go. James Riendeau MMI Computer Support Technician 1300 University Ave Rm. 436, Dept. of MedMicro Madison, WI 53706 Phone: (608) 262-3351 After-hours Phone: (608) 260-2696 Fax: (608) 262-8418 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: Does anyone know if the Intel Macs can boot and install FreeBSD, now that the firmware includes BIOS compatibility? Has anyone seen it happen? I'm thinking of using a Mac Mini as a quiet living-room server. Thanks! --Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mark Edwards --This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel Macs and FreeBSD?
On 4/27/06, James Riendeau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why? Mac OS X has a complete unix freebsd-like core called darwin ( http://www.darwin.org ). There's no reason to install freebsd on it. Just install Mac Developer Tools (included in the Applications folder), compile your favorite progs and go. Why not? I don't see why people tell people to not run FreeBSD on a mac. I've seen this quite a bit on the mailing list and it kind bugs me, mainly because the same could be said about anything. Like why run FreeBSD on a sparc with there is solaris, or why run FreeBSD on x86 when there is linux or windows with the windows services for unix. Don't get me wrong, I have 2 macs with OS X and I don't plan to change that any time soon. If it works why not run FreeBSD on it if they want too? Michael James Riendeau MMI Computer Support Technician 1300 University Ave Rm. 436, Dept. of MedMicro Madison, WI 53706 Phone: (608) 262-3351 After-hours Phone: (608) 260-2696 Fax: (608) 262-8418 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Apr 27, 2006, at 3:03 PM, Mark Edwards wrote: Does anyone know if the Intel Macs can boot and install FreeBSD, now that the firmware includes BIOS compatibility? Has anyone seen it happen? I'm thinking of using a Mac Mini as a quiet living-room server. Thanks! -- Mark Edwards ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
