Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
On 2006-06-10 22:44, Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: much excised --- Anyway, this all works just fine. The MBR and initial boot record in the boot sector of each slice (or primary partition if you must degrade to MS terminology) have just enough standardization that the FreeBSD MBR or most any of the other more fancy ones, can initiate the boot for any of the OS-en commonly available to run on these machines. Since the OS specific stuff really comes after it gets in to the slice boot record code in the boot sector, then generally any of them can boot any of them. The exception is MS MBRs. I have heard that some more recent ones play better, but any I have had so far will not boot any slice except one for a MS OS. I don't know what they screw up, but find it not surprising. So, there is the tome. All newbies, careful what you ask. Someone may answer thusly with more than you every wanted to know. Maybe this ought to be included in the handbook. I've seen this question or one like it 100's of times on these lists. That was the best answer I've seen. Just my $.02 Thanks for the positive comment. It glosses over stuff a little and isn't precisely correct in all detail, but I think it generally is correct and represents the way things work for all practical matters. Maybe it can be a FAQ. How do they get there? Hi Jerry, Can you check if we can massage it a bit and then make it a part of: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/arch-handbook/boot.html I can do the integration with the current book text, SGMLify your text, and commit the resulting changes with a little help from you :) - Giorgos ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
On Saturday 10 June 2006 11:55, Hunter Fuller wrote: On 10 Jun 2006, at 11:45 AM, julien Chaffraix wrote: Hello, chainloader +1 Well, this is a different way to do it, usually this is used with Microsuck products... but I suppose it'd work here too. If you chainload you don't need UFS support (or any filesystem support). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
On Sunday 11 June 2006 03:11, Jerry McAllister wrote: In FreeBSd world, a slice is the primary division of the disk. It is generally referred to as a primary partition in Microsloth land. But that is the same. IIRC It's actually more of an IBM PC term than a Microsoft term. I'm being very pedantic here, but I think it's more logical to think of a slice occupying a primary partition, in the the same way as you might say an integer occupies a word. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
On Sunday 11 June 2006 03:11, Jerry McAllister wrote: In FreeBSd world, a slice is the primary division of the disk. It is generally referred to as a primary partition in Microsloth land. But that is the same. IIRC It's actually more of an IBM PC term than a Microsoft term. I'm being very pedantic here, but I think it's more logical to think of a slice occupying a primary partition, in the the same way as you might say an integer occupies a word. In the FreeBSD world, the term partition is used as a secondary division of a slice. Since we are mainly talking about xxBSd UNIX here... jerry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
Hello, I have made the same configuration (Debian and FreeBSD). I used Grub and it works very well, here is the entry in menu.lst: title FreeBSD root(hd0,0) makeactive chainloader +1 savedefault boot (It is strange that the entry is not the same as the previous answer !?) I also implemented the swap 's sharing as it is presented in the mini-howto Linux-FreeBSD (http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/Linux+FreeBSD.html). The howto is a bit old but you can follow it. Cheers, Julien Hunter Fuller wrote: Grub does well for me. Set it up for Linux and then set it up for BSD, making sure the UFS driver's in there. Here's my command-list for booting FBSD. root (hd0,0,a) kernel /boot/loader boot I might have the spacing wrong, I'm doing it from memory, but the data's all there. On 10 Jun 2006, at 1:26 AM, jekillen wrote: Hello; If I want to set up a dual boot of either Linux or FreeBSD, what is the best way to go about it? Use Lilo, grub, or does FreeBSD have a boot loader that it likes better and Linux won't object to? i'm planning on using Debian on a separate bootable hard drive. I have to get more info on what version of Debian I will use. FreeBSD is version 6.0 release. It works great, has little quirks here and there but are negligible, Xwindow screen saver daemon won't run, but that's ok because mostly I shut the monitor off when not using the system. Gnome throws up a dialog every time it starts stating that a panel is already running. Once it kept presenting the same dialog several times before it was satisfied that I got the message. Monitor works great without any intervention from me. I sure is nice to have a computer system that just runs and runs and I don't have to do finger nail biting trying to stay ahead of crashes. Thanks in advance: JK ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
Hello; If I want to set up a dual boot of either Linux or FreeBSD, what is the best way to go about it? Use Lilo, grub, or does FreeBSD have a boot loader that it likes better and Linux won't object to? Mabye you are using the term 'boot loader' for what I am used to seeing called the 'MBR'. The boot loader I am familiar comes later in the process and is unique to each OS. All of those you name will work as an MBR. I just stick with the FreeBSD MBR but I don't have any need for fancy features or display formatting that the others give you. The FreeBSD MBR should be able to start any of them. FreeBSD can be started from any of those MBRs. It is more an aesthetic thing. Advocates of each tend to get rabidly partisan. But, the really meaningful differences are small. Past the MBR stage, use the boot sector and boot loader stuff that comes with the OS you put on each bootable slice. One thing you need to do is put the MBR on each disk if you are putting each OS on a separate disk. The Bios will start the first one and the MBR should then give you a choice of any bootable slices on the first drive and also the choice of going to the second drive MBR. If you then chose the second MBR, that one will give you the choice of all the bootable slices on that drive. Probably you will make only one bootable slice on each drive, but could make up to 4. Someone else will have to respond to the X questions. Usually it is best to put separate questions in separate posts. It makes responding easier. jerry i'm planning on using Debian on a separate bootable hard drive. I have to get more info on what version of Debian I will use. FreeBSD is version 6.0 release. It works great, has little quirks here and there but are negligible, Xwindow screen saver daemon won't run, but that's ok because mostly I shut the monitor off when not using the system. Gnome throws up a dialog every time it starts stating that a panel is already running. Once it kept presenting the same dialog several times before it was satisfied that I got the message. Monitor works great without any intervention from me. I sure is nice to have a computer system that just runs and runs and I don't have to do finger nail biting trying to stay ahead of crashes. Thanks in advance: JK ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
On 10 Jun 2006, at 11:45 AM, julien Chaffraix wrote: Hello, I have made the same configuration (Debian and FreeBSD). I used Grub and it works very well, here is the entry in menu.lst: I'll tell you which of these were different and why... title FreeBSD root(hd0,0) Odd, I had to specify the slice (the a in root (hd0,0,a)) makeactive I don't think this is necessary. chainloader +1 Well, this is a different way to do it, usually this is used with Microsuck products... but I suppose it'd work here too. savedefault A handy feature, but I don't use it. boot (It is strange that the entry is not the same as the previous answer !?) I also implemented the swap 's sharing as it is presented in the mini-howto Linux-FreeBSD (http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/Linux +FreeBSD.html). The howto is a bit old but you can follow it. Glad you got everything working. Cheers, Julien Hunter Fuller wrote: Grub does well for me. Set it up for Linux and then set it up for BSD, making sure the UFS driver's in there. Here's my command-list for booting FBSD. root (hd0,0,a) kernel /boot/loader boot I might have the spacing wrong, I'm doing it from memory, but the data's all there. On 10 Jun 2006, at 1:26 AM, jekillen wrote: Hello; If I want to set up a dual boot of either Linux or FreeBSD, what is the best way to go about it? Use Lilo, grub, or does FreeBSD have a boot loader that it likes better and Linux won't object to? i'm planning on using Debian on a separate bootable hard drive. I have to get more info on what version of Debian I will use. FreeBSD is version 6.0 release. It works great, has little quirks here and there but are negligible, Xwindow screen saver daemon won't run, but that's ok because mostly I shut the monitor off when not using the system. Gnome throws up a dialog every time it starts stating that a panel is already running. Once it kept presenting the same dialog several times before it was satisfied that I got the message. Monitor works great without any intervention from me. I sure is nice to have a computer system that just runs and runs and I don't have to do finger nail biting trying to stay ahead of crashes. Thanks in advance: JK ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
On Jun 10, 2006, at 8:00 AM, Jerry McAllister wrote: Hello; If I want to set up a dual boot of either Linux or FreeBSD, what is the best way to go about it? Use Lilo, grub, or does FreeBSD have a boot loader that it likes better and Linux won't object to? Mabye you are using the term 'boot loader' for what I am used to seeing called the 'MBR'. The boot loader I am familiar comes later in the process and is unique to each OS. Thank you for correcting me on the terminology; and the info and advice. So MBR is Master Boot Record? I remember when installing FreeBSD and slicing and partitioning it asks if the slice should contain and MBR. I assumed that that was the part of the os that was os specific because the file systems are different, but I may have something to learn correctly. Particularly the difference between slices and labeling/partitioning. But this confusion hasn't prevented me from installing successfully. OK. Just a little more on MBR vs boot sector vs boot loader. The slice doesn't contain the MBR. That is in sector 0 of the disk device. Then 'below' that, each slice contains a boot sector. In FreeBSd world, a slice is the primary division of the disk. It is generally referred to as a primary partition in Microsloth land. But that is the same. Each slice (primary partition) can be bootable. To be bootable, a slice must be marked as bootable and have a boot record in its first sector. Note that this is not the first sector on the disk device (eg sector 0) but the boot sector of the slice. That boot record is unique to the particular OS living in that slice. In FreeBSD (as with most UNIXen) each slice can be further divided in to partitions. In FreeBSD, the 'a' partition on the slice is generally assumed to be the system partition and is called 'root' and gets mounted as '/'. The sequence of events is essentially: The system starts up, find and runs the BIOS. The BIOS does some hardware checks, including the boot order. A typical boot order can be: floppy, CD, Hard disk. The BIOS searches through its boot device list for one that has an MBR The BIOS loads the first MBR it finds in its list and transfers control. The MBR looks at its slice table and offers a choice of those that are marked as bootable and have a recognizable boot record in its boot sector. All MBRs have some way of choosing a slice to boot by default if you don't make any other choice. The MBR loads up that boot sector and transfers control to it. The boot sector code does some more checking and generally runs a boot loader that is able to read up some sort of script that tells what features you want to be part of the system. The boot record then finishes the boot and hands over control to the newly booted system, usually to a program called 'init' in UNIX world. Some more services might still be started after init begins to run. In FreeBSD that is controlled by the rc.xxx scripts. All that stuff that the boot loader looks at and the init program that is given control are normally somewhere in the root (/) partition, which is part of the slice being booted, which is a primary division of the disk device being booted. So, in a sense, there is a hierarchy: BIOS, disk device, slice then partition Each has some part of the boot and tha is used in order. If there are bootable slices on more than one disk device, then each disk that has a bootable slice that you intend to use that way, must have an MBR. Each bootable slice on each bootable disk must have a boot record in the boot sector. After that, it is up the the OS what comes next. The BIOS only deals with the first device in its boot list that has a proper MBR and hands control to it. If there is more than one device to choose from, that MBR has to figure it out and give you that choice. Although it would be possible for that first MBR to read up all the slices that are marked as bootable on all disk devices and offer them all as choices right off the bat. But, at least the FreeBSD MBR starts with the its own bootable slices and then just the other disks that have MBRs If you want one of the other disks, you first select that disk (generally identified as choice 5 or F5) and then its MBR will put up its list of choices for you. I haven't tried it with 3 disks with bootable slices. I guess it will just continue on. Anyway, this all works just fine. The MBR and initial boot record in the boot sector of each slice (or primary partition if you must degrade to MS terminology) have just enough standardization that the FreeBSD MBR or most any of the other more fancy ones, can initiate the boot for any of the OS-en commonly available to run on these machines. Since the OS specific stuff really comes after it gets in to the slice boot record code in the boot sector, then generally any of them can boot any of them. The
Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
On Saturday 10 June 2006 18:11, Jerry McAllister wrote: On Jun 10, 2006, at 8:00 AM, Jerry McAllister wrote: Hello; If I want to set up a dual boot of either Linux or FreeBSD, what is the best way to go about it? Use Lilo, grub, or does FreeBSD have a boot loader that it likes better and Linux won't object to? Mabye you are using the term 'boot loader' for what I am used to seeing called the 'MBR'. The boot loader I am familiar comes later in the process and is unique to each OS. Thank you for correcting me on the terminology; and the info and advice. So MBR is Master Boot Record? I remember when installing FreeBSD and slicing and partitioning it asks if the slice should contain and MBR. I assumed that that was the part of the os that was os specific because the file systems are different, but I may have something to learn correctly. Particularly the difference between slices and labeling/partitioning. But this confusion hasn't prevented me from installing successfully. OK. Just a little more on MBR vs boot sector vs boot loader. The slice doesn't contain the MBR. That is in sector 0 of the disk device. Then 'below' that, each slice contains a boot sector. In FreeBSd world, a slice is the primary division of the disk. It is generally referred to as a primary partition in Microsloth land. But that is the same. Each slice (primary partition) can be bootable. To be bootable, a slice must be marked as bootable and have a boot record in its first sector. Note that this is not the first sector on the disk device (eg sector 0) but the boot sector of the slice. That boot record is unique to the particular OS living in that slice. In FreeBSD (as with most UNIXen) each slice can be further divided in to partitions. In FreeBSD, the 'a' partition on the slice is generally assumed to be the system partition and is called 'root' and gets mounted as '/'. The sequence of events is essentially: The system starts up, find and runs the BIOS. The BIOS does some hardware checks, including the boot order. A typical boot order can be: floppy, CD, Hard disk. The BIOS searches through its boot device list for one that has an MBR The BIOS loads the first MBR it finds in its list and transfers control. The MBR looks at its slice table and offers a choice of those that are marked as bootable and have a recognizable boot record in its boot sector. All MBRs have some way of choosing a slice to boot by default if you don't make any other choice. The MBR loads up that boot sector and transfers control to it. The boot sector code does some more checking and generally runs a boot loader that is able to read up some sort of script that tells what features you want to be part of the system. The boot record then finishes the boot and hands over control to the newly booted system, usually to a program called 'init' in UNIX world. Some more services might still be started after init begins to run. In FreeBSD that is controlled by the rc.xxx scripts. All that stuff that the boot loader looks at and the init program that is given control are normally somewhere in the root (/) partition, which is part of the slice being booted, which is a primary division of the disk device being booted. So, in a sense, there is a hierarchy: BIOS, disk device, slice then partition Each has some part of the boot and tha is used in order. If there are bootable slices on more than one disk device, then each disk that has a bootable slice that you intend to use that way, must have an MBR. Each bootable slice on each bootable disk must have a boot record in the boot sector. After that, it is up the the OS what comes next. The BIOS only deals with the first device in its boot list that has a proper MBR and hands control to it. If there is more than one device to choose from, that MBR has to figure it out and give you that choice. Although it would be possible for that first MBR to read up all the slices that are marked as bootable on all disk devices and offer them all as choices right off the bat. But, at least the FreeBSD MBR starts with the its own bootable slices and then just the other disks that have MBRs If you want one of the other disks, you first select that disk (generally identified as choice 5 or F5) and then its MBR will put up its list of choices for you. I haven't tried it with 3 disks with bootable slices. I guess it will just continue on. Anyway, this all works just fine. The MBR and initial boot record in the boot sector of each slice (or primary partition if you must degrade to MS terminology) have just enough standardization that the FreeBSD MBR or most any of the other more fancy ones, can initiate the boot for any of the OS-en commonly available to run on these machines. Since the OS specific stuff really comes after it gets in to the slice boot record
Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
much excised --- Anyway, this all works just fine. The MBR and initial boot record in the boot sector of each slice (or primary partition if you must degrade to MS terminology) have just enough standardization that the FreeBSD MBR or most any of the other more fancy ones, can initiate the boot for any of the OS-en commonly available to run on these machines. Since the OS specific stuff really comes after it gets in to the slice boot record code in the boot sector, then generally any of them can boot any of them. The exception is MS MBRs. I have heard that some more recent ones play better, but any I have had so far will not boot any slice except one for a MS OS. I don't know what they screw up, but find it not surprisin= g. So, there is the tome. All newbies, careful what you ask. Someone may answer thusly with more than you every wanted to know. jerry Maybe this ought to be included in the handbook. I've seen this question or one like it 100's of times on these lists. That was the best answer I've seen. Just my $.02 Thanks for the positive comment. It glosses over stuff a little and isn't precisely correct in all detail, but I think it generally is correct and represents the way things work for all practical matters. Maybe it can be a FAQ. How do they get there? jerry Beech ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
On Saturday 10 June 2006 18:44, Jerry McAllister wrote: much excised --- Anyway, this all works just fine. The MBR and initial boot record in the boot sector of each slice (or primary partition if you must degrade to MS terminology) have just enough standardization that the FreeBSD MBR or most any of the other more fancy ones, can initiate the boot for any of the OS-en commonly available to run on these machines. Since the OS specific stuff really comes after it gets in to the slice boot record code in the boot sector, then generally any of them can boot any of them. The exception is MS MBRs. I have heard that some more recent ones play better, but any I have had so far will not boot any slice except one for a MS OS. I don't know what they screw up, but find it not surprisin= g. So, there is the tome. All newbies, careful what you ask. Someone may answer thusly with more than you every wanted to know. jerry Maybe this ought to be included in the handbook. I've seen this question or one like it 100's of times on these lists. That was the best answer I've seen. Just my $.02 Thanks for the positive comment. It glosses over stuff a little and isn't precisely correct in all detail, but I think it generally is correct and represents the way things work for all practical matters. Maybe it can be a FAQ. How do they get there? jerry Beech I'd ask that question on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. I've never submitted anything to any of the docs, so I have no clue what their procedure is. Beech -- --- Beech Rintoul - Sys. Administrator - [EMAIL PROTECTED] /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Alaska Paradise \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | 201 East 9Th Avenue Ste.310 X - NO Word docs in e-mail | Anchorage, AK 99501 / \ - Please visit Alaska Paradise - http://www.alaskaparadise.com --- pgpMf1p60gTMR.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
Beech Rintoul wrote: Maybe it can be a FAQ. How do they get there? jerry I'd ask that question on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list. I've never submitted anything to any of the docs, so I have no clue what their procedure is. Beech Probably something like this: 1. Chat it up on the doc@ list (FDP list, whatever)... 2. Gain a little positive feedback. 3. Write up Jerry's FAQ answer as a patch to the current one in the /usr/doc/ tree. 4. Submit a PR with patch attached. That's an overview of how it *might* happen. You may have to add in 2a] read the FDP primer, learn Docbook/ SGML syntax, etc. and 3a] talk over your patch with a mentor/committer to see if they think it's ready before you submit the PR; especially if you don't tolerate criticism well. OTOH, they might just jump for joy and even volunteer to convert plain text to SGML for ya ... you can't tell for certain, though they're a pretty positive group (in spite of the yacking that gets thrown their way about every little piece of writing about FreeBSD on the web) Just my $0.02, Kevin Kinsey PS and yes, I appreciated the overview that Jerry gave, also. -- The attacker must vanquish; the defender need only survive. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
Hello; If I want to set up a dual boot of either Linux or FreeBSD, what is the best way to go about it? Use Lilo, grub, or does FreeBSD have a boot loader that it likes better and Linux won't object to? i'm planning on using Debian on a separate bootable hard drive. I have to get more info on what version of Debian I will use. FreeBSD is version 6.0 release. It works great, has little quirks here and there but are negligible, Xwindow screen saver daemon won't run, but that's ok because mostly I shut the monitor off when not using the system. Gnome throws up a dialog every time it starts stating that a panel is already running. Once it kept presenting the same dialog several times before it was satisfied that I got the message. Monitor works great without any intervention from me. I sure is nice to have a computer system that just runs and runs and I don't have to do finger nail biting trying to stay ahead of crashes. Thanks in advance: JK ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: dual boot; Linux, FreeBSD
Grub does well for me. Set it up for Linux and then set it up for BSD, making sure the UFS driver's in there. Here's my command-list for booting FBSD. root (hd0,0,a) kernel /boot/loader boot I might have the spacing wrong, I'm doing it from memory, but the data's all there. On 10 Jun 2006, at 1:26 AM, jekillen wrote: Hello; If I want to set up a dual boot of either Linux or FreeBSD, what is the best way to go about it? Use Lilo, grub, or does FreeBSD have a boot loader that it likes better and Linux won't object to? i'm planning on using Debian on a separate bootable hard drive. I have to get more info on what version of Debian I will use. FreeBSD is version 6.0 release. It works great, has little quirks here and there but are negligible, Xwindow screen saver daemon won't run, but that's ok because mostly I shut the monitor off when not using the system. Gnome throws up a dialog every time it starts stating that a panel is already running. Once it kept presenting the same dialog several times before it was satisfied that I got the message. Monitor works great without any intervention from me. I sure is nice to have a computer system that just runs and runs and I don't have to do finger nail biting trying to stay ahead of crashes. Thanks in advance: JK ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
