Re: [Freedos-user] Undeserved Comment Re: EMM/JEMM, "A20", Etc.

2011-10-21 Thread Jack

Eric,

> Finally I find time to read the changelog examples, thanks!
>
 03/27/2007
  bugfix: free EMS pages not always reported correctly.
>
> Wrong amount of free space? Or non-free pages reported as free?

"Not my department", as I've never used actual EMS -- Ask Japheth.

 bugfix: translation DMA for 16-bit controller (channels 4-7)
 didn't work.
>
> This fix sounds VERY useful.

Might be, if I could ever find a "real" diskette driver that is not
embedded inside some BIOS.

 03/02/2007 bugfix: XMS function 11h (free UMB) always returned an  
 error.
>
> Error status? Or failed to work?

"Not my department, ask Japheth", as above.

 10/07/2006 bugfix: allocating a EMS block with zero pages (int 67h,
 ah=5Ah, bx=0) returned with AH=0, but did not return a valid DX  
 handle.
>
> A rare situation?

Perhaps, but would YOU like to be "bitten by this bug"?

 09/30/2006
  bugfix: VDS functions 03, 04, 07 and 08 may have failed if bit 1 of  
   DX was set (request to copy in/out of DMA buffer) and registers
   BX,CX were <> 0.
>
> Int 4b.8103/4/7/8? Lock/Unlock/Request/Release DMA region/buffer?
> I first thought it was a missing feature, but re-reading the above
> it was a bug triggered by BX / CX values. Oops :-!

UIDE uses ONLY "VDS lock" and "VDS unlock", since MS-DOS EMM386 is
absolutely UNRELIABLE for any other VDS calls!   "VDS lock" returns
the 32-bit address of a memory area, without which it is "Kiss your
*** GOODBYE!!" re: using UltraDMA!!

  bugfix: 1 kB of DMA buffer may have been inaccessible.
  bugfix: releasing a DMA buffer of size < 1 kB always failed.
>
> Probably uncommon, but still an annoying bug fixed by Japheth :-)

Depends -- Users with SCSI or old IDE disks (i.e. no "UltraDMA") may
just be "Sh** out of luck!", as our actor Clint Eastwood once noted!

 09/06/2006 bugfix: writing to "ROM" page FF000 if ALTBOOT wasn't set
 caused a crash.
>
> Yes I remember the times when ALTBOOT was "needed for stability"...

Another "Kiss your *** GOODBYE!!", in my opinion!

 08/25/2006 bugfix: unsupported VDS functions caused a debug display,
 which didn't work and may have caused corruption of monitor data.
>
> Interesting.

"Corruption of monitor data" is only "INTERESTING", you say??   I might
say many OTHER things, starting with "Flat-Ass DISASTER"!!

 08/23/2006 bugfix: DMA buffer is ensured to begin on a 64 kB physical
 address boundary.
>
> I wonder where else it was before.

Who cares -- Does the expression "Flat-Ass DEAD!!" mean anything to you??

 08/17/2006 bugfix: in VCPI protected mode entry switch to host stack
 before context is switched.
>
> That probably caused random crashes with protected mode apps before?

"You BET your ***!" {our companion to "Kissing" it, as above)!

>> Note that all of the "bugfix" items listed above are not-long after the
>> final update for FD-EMM386, meaning that Japheth likely inherited them
>
> Maybe some other changes after 2008 made JEMM386 harder to use again?

"Not my department -- Ask Japheth"!

> Still trying to find an explanation for Alain's pessimism and troubles
> experienced by the users of his software when trying to use JEMM386.
> In any case I agree that JEMM386 has several clear improvements, too.
> Based on your changelog examples - not on "who is on the base list".

Nonetheless, whoever decided to "pitch" FD-EMM386 and include JEMM386
deserves a MEDAL!

> "Clear improvements over FD-EMM386" does not mean that FD-EMM386
> was horrible, just old.

After all your admissions and my "notes" above, one DARE NOT only
say FD-EMM386 was "old".   It was BAD, still IS bad (due to being
"abandoned"!), and should be updated or flatly ELIMINATED, before
others get "burned" by any ["Interesting"] items listed above!!

SORRY for my strong feelings, and "friend" Brutman can call me
"hostile" all he wishes.   But "I felt it my DUTY to provide
responsible opinions" [as Sir Edward Murdoch noted to General
Haig, in the 1980 "Anzacs" Australian T.V. series), and I would
be DERELICT in that duty if I did not express how BAD and RISKY
FD-EMM386 still is!!

> But my big question is what makes JEMM386 uncomfortable/shaky for
> Alain, even though JEMM386 actually is better than FD-EMM386 and a
> lot more up-to-date and maintained.

Again, "Not my department", especially as I know only enough about
protected-mode to get my "real mode" XMS move logic running within
XMGR and UIDE.   Ask Alain.

>> ... Why not recommend that users who create "boot" diskettes DO
>> NOT include any "EMM" driver in such "boot" activities??
>
> I totally agree with your recommendation.

"Yahoo"!   Or "Yay-hoo!" depending on what U.S. state hatched you!

>> Would you care to GUESS the first message XMGR will give you??
>> Something like "NOTE:  A20 line found on!", maybe?
>
> The FreeDOS kernel only switches A20 by calling HIMEM/XMGR, so if
> XMGR finds A20 to be already on, then the BIOS probably did t

Re: [Freedos-user] Undeserved Comment Re: EMM/JEMM, "A20", Etc.

2011-10-21 Thread Eric Auer

Finally I find time to read the changelog examples, thanks!

>>> 03/27/2007
>>>  bugfix: free EMS pages not always reported correctly.

Wrong amount of free space? Or non-free pages reported as free?

>>>  bugfix: translation DMA for 16-bit controller (channels 4-7) didn't  
>>> work.

This fix sounds VERY useful.

>>> 03/02/2007 bugfix: XMS function 11h (free UMB) always returned an error.

Error status? Or failed to work?

>>> 10/07/2006 bugfix: allocating a EMS block with zero pages (int 67h,
>>> ah=5Ah, bx=0) returned with AH=0, but did not return a valid DX handle.

A rare situation?

>>> 09/30/2006
>>>  bugfix: VDS functions 03, 04, 07 and 08 may have failed if bit 1 of DX
>>>   was set (request to copy in/out of DMA buffer) and registers BX,CX
>>>   were <> 0.

Int 4b.8103/4/7/8? Lock/Unlock/Request/Release DMA region/buffer?
I first thought it was a missing feature, but re-reading the above
it was a bug triggered by BX / CX values. Oops :-!

>>>  bugfix: 1 kB of DMA buffer may have been inaccessible.
>>>  bugfix: releasing a DMA buffer of size < 1 kB always failed.

Probably uncommon, but still an annoying bug fixed by Japheth :-)

>>> 09/06/2006 bugfix: writing to "ROM" page FF000 if ALTBOOT wasn't set
>>> caused a crash.

Yes I remember the times when ALTBOOT was "needed for stability"...

>>> 08/25/2006 bugfix: unsupported VDS functions caused a debug display,
>>> which didn't work and may have caused corruption of monitor data.

Interesting.

>>> 08/23/2006 bugfix: DMA buffer is ensured to begin on a 64 kB physical
>>> address boundary.

I wonder where else it was before.

>>> 08/17/2006 bugfix: in VCPI protected mode entry switch to host stack
>>> before context is switched.

That probably caused random crashes with protected mode apps before?

> Note that all of the "bugfix" items listed above are not-long after the
> final update for FD-EMM386, meaning that Japheth likely inherited them

Maybe some other changes after 2008 made JEMM386 harder to use again?

Still trying to find an explanation for Alain's pessimism and troubles
experienced by the users of his software when trying to use JEMM386.

In any case I agree that JEMM386 has several clear improvements, too.
Based on your changelog examples - not on "who is on the base list".

> Can't say there, either, as I avoid FD-EMM386 like the PLAGUE!

"Clear improvements over FD-EMM386" does not mean that FD-EMM386
was horrible, just old. But my big question is what makes JEMM386
uncomfortable / shaky for Alain even though JEMM386 actually is
better than FD-EMM386 and a lot more up to date and maintained.

> Good luck waiting for one!   But, why wait -- Why not recommend
> that users who create "boot" diskettes DO NOT include any "EMM"
> driver in such "boot" activities??

I totally agree with your recommendation.



> Would you care to GUESS the first message XMGR will give you??
> Something like "NOTE:  A20 line found on!", maybe?

The FreeDOS kernel only switches A20 by calling HIMEM/XMGR, so if
XMGR finds A20 to be already on, then the BIOS probably did that.

>> In short, I would be happy about a "force-on" "A20 method".

> Glad to hear that, since your own FreeDOS is already DOING so!

It is not, but probably it should - with a config sys option to
be able to select MS DOS style - A20 off between "exec" and the
next "big" int21 call, done for ancient-DOS-app compatibility.

>>> XMGR doesn't handle the usually-ignored BIOS calls ...

> Why do I say such calls are usually ignored?   Because XMGR
> has NEVER supported them, and no one has ever "complained"

That simply means that all modern systems support port 92 and
or keyboard controller style A20. It does not mean that BIOS
calls for switching A20 would be broken in BIOS. Just that it
is not so useful to call the BIOS for A20 manipulation. Yet I
could imagine the BIOS knowing better than DOS which of those
two methods (port92 / 8042) is preferred/stable/faster/etc.?

>> In any case, BIOS calls tend to do (B) or (C) anyway, just in
>> a slower way, so you are right to ignore those calls, and the
>> ancient stuff as well, of course :-)
> 
> Of course!

Proves your point that using the BIOS to manipulate A20 is not
necessary, nobody has yet reported non-BIOS to cause problems.



> The kernel already IS doing part of the work!   Try ALL of the
> options on Lucho's "boot" diskette"!   You will find that only
> MS-DOS and PC-DOS are not hard-enabling "A20", when they load.
> DR-DOS, the Russian PTS-DOS, ROM-DOS, and FreeDOS all DO hard-
> enable "A20".

The FreeDOS kernel contains no 8042, port 92 or int 15.24 style
A20 manipulation code (or it would be very well hidden) so the
only A20 work of the kernel are calls to XMS driver functions
number 5 and 6. Maybe an obscure side-effect of something else
distorts your measurement? The boot menu used by Lucho might
enable A20 but the MS / PC DOS kernel then disabled it again?

> To use an old U.S. phrase, "Don't MESS with success!"

I still cannot

Re: [Freedos-user] Undeserved Comment Re: EMM/JEMM, "A20", Etc.

2011-10-21 Thread Eric Auer

Hi Jack,

> HIMEMX and XMGR both improve on the "old" 30K MS-DOS HIMEM which is
> overloaded with obsolete "A20" code for now-defunct PCs.Japheth
> and I have some differences, but I have used HIMEMX and think it is
> quite equal to XMGR.   XMGR does have direct support for UMBPCI, as
> I note in the README for my drivers, so I have retained XMGR as the
> real-mode solution for those who do not need a full "EMM" driver.
> 
>> ... What I see happening on real machine is XMS driver loaded,
>> then some HMA message, then a hang before shell is executed ...
> 
> If this applies to XMGR, send me a private E-Mail, and I will try to
> help resolve this.   Should NOT happen!

Thanks :-)

> As I note above, XMGR v.s. HIMEMX is an "even call", so you can
> likely keep FreeDOS as-is and go on using HIMEMX as "standard".
> No knowledge of FDXMS286, as I have never used an 80286 system.

As far as I remember, FDXMS286 has some issues, but it was the only
free XMS driver available for 286 at all, so it is better than none.

>> Boot configurations without at least an XMS driver can be quite
>> troublesome as they consume lots and lots of DOS low-memory ...

I would not suggest that either - but I do suggest to avoid EMS/UMB
drivers in one-size-fits-all bootdisks because modern machines tend
to have too much UMB conflict potential with too little compatible
conflict resolution info. I agree with Jack: XMS/HMA are important,
so loading HIMEM/XMGR/HIMEMX is good - as long as your A20 is safe.

>> 4DOS is a bit better with this ...

You mean auto-choice between XMS and disk swap? But who has no XMS?

> they DESERVE to be called!   Starting with Gates & Co., who SHOULD
> have made CD/DVD logic go directly into the BIOS instead of making
> a separate "MSCDEX" with its pack of [lousy!] add-on drivers...

But then, e.g. BIOS based "VESA" sound also never really got off the
ground, as a lot of other hardware also stayed without BIOS support.

Also, hardware vendors now feel forced to make drivers for all sorts
of Windows and it is quite possible that this not only is a burden
but also a chance compared to sending everything through BIOS calls.

>>> The kernel already IS doing part of the work!   Try ALL of the
>>> options on Lucho's "boot" diskette"!   You will find that only
>>> MS-DOS and PC-DOS are not hard-enabling "A20" when they load

Interesting, so maybe FreeDOS kernel should reconsider mimicking MS
here and make hard-enabling the default (as soon as XMS/HMA drivers
are detected, call "enable A20" once, then stop touching A20) with
an config sys option to reactivate MS style A20 toggline which only
ancient apps need anyway and for which LOADFIX is a workaround...?

Eric


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Re: [Freedos-user] Undeserved Comment Re: EMM/JEMM, "A20", Etc.

2011-10-21 Thread Eric Auer

Hi Alain,

>>> In creating JEMM386, Japheth did not merely improve things!   He
>>> made FD-EMM386 RUN PROPERLY!
>>
>> Finaly you agree with me!   Michael Devore's emm386 was tested very
>> very much by the members of FreeDOS and Michael fixed ALL issues.

You misread that ;-) Saying *Japheth* made FD-EMM386 run properly
just meant that "JEMM386 is the repaired version of FD-EMM386" and
I guess you do not agree with that. But I find it more interesting
to check the changelogs, so I will reply to that mail next.

Eric


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Re: [Freedos-user] 4th-Grade English.

2011-10-21 Thread Alejandro Muñoz Fonttz
Sigo sin entender.
I still can't understand.

 Alejandro J. Muñoz Fonttz
Ingeniero Civil/Civil Engineer


On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 2:00 AM, Jack  wrote:

>
> > [1] Not everybody on the list is a native English speaker.
>
> True.   But I know enough to differentiate between (A) language
> problems which I correct, as you can see if you compare Alain's
> original post to my answer, and (B) "missing" or "changing" THE
> POINT of posts on boards like this!   It was (B) that I decided
> to address earlier today.
>
> > [2] You need to calm down.  The tone of many of your postings
> > is borderline hostile.
>
> "Tough Tomatoes" [with "Tomatoes" our polite word].   I reserve
> the right to decide for myself if a mild or strong "tone" might
> help my readers GET THE MESSAGE!   Given all in recent threads,
> I felt my comments and "tone" were NEEDED!   "Hostile" or other
> such labels from you ("politically incorrect" is my #1 favorite
> by the label-slappers!) can simply be ignored.   After all, one
> simply has to live-with "modern" society, doesn't one??
>
>
>
> --
> The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
> demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
> Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn
> about Cisco certifications, training, and career opportunities.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/cisco-dev2dev
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Re: [Freedos-user] 4th-Grade English.

2011-10-21 Thread Jack

> [1] Not everybody on the list is a native English speaker.

True.   But I know enough to differentiate between (A) language
problems which I correct, as you can see if you compare Alain's
original post to my answer, and (B) "missing" or "changing" THE
POINT of posts on boards like this!   It was (B) that I decided
to address earlier today.

> [2] You need to calm down.  The tone of many of your postings
> is borderline hostile.

"Tough Tomatoes" [with "Tomatoes" our polite word].   I reserve
the right to decide for myself if a mild or strong "tone" might
help my readers GET THE MESSAGE!   Given all in recent threads,
I felt my comments and "tone" were NEEDED!   "Hostile" or other
such labels from you ("politically incorrect" is my #1 favorite
by the label-slappers!) can simply be ignored.   After all, one
simply has to live-with "modern" society, doesn't one??


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Re: [Freedos-user] 4th-Grade English.

2011-10-21 Thread Santiago Almenara
No sé que pasó, ¿¿se salieron los puntos de tu operación??
Generalmente eres una persona muy amable.

Sent from my iPhone

On 21/10/2011, at 14:07, Jack  wrote:

>
> It is VERY TIRESOME, having to respond to posts on this board with
> "I DID NOT say ..." or "I DO NOT agree ...", when one's REAL words
> are either "misunderstood" or often TWISTED for some other agenda!
>
> Many such "replies" would cause their writers to FAIL, QUICKLY, in
> almost all U.S. High-School "Debate" classes, from NOT speaking to
> the "POINT" of whatever the original post was!
>
> Is it REALLY true, that (A) using 4th-grade English [age 9 level],
> (B) proof-reading SEVERAL times before making posts, and (C) doing
> all possible to be CLEAR, are now NOT-ENOUGH on boards like this??
>
> Or does the U.S. "Slept Thru High-School" DISEASE [as so many here
> took GREAT SPORT in achieving!] now afflict not just OUR last 2 or
> 3 whole generations of total idiots, but EVERYBODY world-wide??
>
> COME ON, People!!   DO NOT "twist" posts to suit your OWN agendas!
> PAY ATTENTION to the "POINT" of what people try to post, both here
> and elsewhere!!   And DO realize you just might have to "WAKE UP!"
> from such teenage "slumber", and USE YOUR BRAINS, now-and-then, to
> UNDERSTAND what is obviously "technical" data, not just "Tee-Hee!"
> babbling from "Slept Thru" BRATS!!
>
> "Sorry, but THERE IT IS!!", as the British might say!
>
>
> --
> The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
> demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
> Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn
> about Cisco certifications, training, and career opportunities.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/cisco-dev2dev
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

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Re: [Freedos-user] 4th-Grade English.

2011-10-21 Thread Michael B. Brutman

Jack,

[1] Not everybody on the list is a native English speaker.

[2] You need to calm down.  The tone of many of your postings is 
borderline hostile.



-Mike



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Re: [Freedos-user] 4th-Grade English.

2011-10-21 Thread Alain Mouette
Sorry for my english...
My native tong is Portuguese
My second one is French
Leaving English as the third one...

Alain

Em 21-10-2011 17:07, Jack escreveu:
>
> It is VERY TIRESOME, having to respond to posts on this board with
> "I DID NOT say ..." or "I DO NOT agree ...", when one's REAL words
> are either "misunderstood" or often TWISTED for some other agenda!
>
> Many such "replies" would cause their writers to FAIL, QUICKLY, in
> almost all U.S. High-School "Debate" classes, from NOT speaking to
> the "POINT" of whatever the original post was!
>
> Is it REALLY true, that (A) using 4th-grade English [age 9 level],
> (B) proof-reading SEVERAL times before making posts, and (C) doing
> all possible to be CLEAR, are now NOT-ENOUGH on boards like this??
>
> Or does the U.S. "Slept Thru High-School" DISEASE [as so many here
> took GREAT SPORT in achieving!] now afflict not just OUR last 2 or
> 3 whole generations of total idiots, but EVERYBODY world-wide??
>
> COME ON, People!!   DO NOT "twist" posts to suit your OWN agendas!
> PAY ATTENTION to the "POINT" of what people try to post, both here
> and elsewhere!!   And DO realize you just might have to "WAKE UP!"
>   from such teenage "slumber", and USE YOUR BRAINS, now-and-then, to
> UNDERSTAND what is obviously "technical" data, not just "Tee-Hee!"
> babbling from "Slept Thru" BRATS!!
>
> "Sorry, but THERE IT IS!!", as the British might say!
>
>
> --
> The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
> demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
> Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn
> about Cisco certifications, training, and career opportunities.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/cisco-dev2dev
> ___
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> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

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[Freedos-user] 4th-Grade English.

2011-10-21 Thread Jack

It is VERY TIRESOME, having to respond to posts on this board with
"I DID NOT say ..." or "I DO NOT agree ...", when one's REAL words
are either "misunderstood" or often TWISTED for some other agenda!

Many such "replies" would cause their writers to FAIL, QUICKLY, in
almost all U.S. High-School "Debate" classes, from NOT speaking to
the "POINT" of whatever the original post was!

Is it REALLY true, that (A) using 4th-grade English [age 9 level],
(B) proof-reading SEVERAL times before making posts, and (C) doing
all possible to be CLEAR, are now NOT-ENOUGH on boards like this??

Or does the U.S. "Slept Thru High-School" DISEASE [as so many here
took GREAT SPORT in achieving!] now afflict not just OUR last 2 or
3 whole generations of total idiots, but EVERYBODY world-wide??

COME ON, People!!   DO NOT "twist" posts to suit your OWN agendas!
PAY ATTENTION to the "POINT" of what people try to post, both here
and elsewhere!!   And DO realize you just might have to "WAKE UP!"
 from such teenage "slumber", and USE YOUR BRAINS, now-and-then, to
UNDERSTAND what is obviously "technical" data, not just "Tee-Hee!"
babbling from "Slept Thru" BRATS!!

"Sorry, but THERE IT IS!!", as the British might say!


--
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Re: [Freedos-user] acpidump and acpixtract

2011-10-21 Thread Mark Brown
the freedos 1.1 test_3 .iso cd, installed first on a wiped hard drive,
supports (is compatible with) windows xp's auto-installed multiboot manager...
 
why not mount freedos *and* windows xp, installed both with the fat32 option,
and then just use your tools for xp on xp, 
shuffling files back and forth between os's?
 
this has worked for me.
just make sure you install both with fat32,
else have a copy of freeware "ntfs4dos professional" to communicate between 
os's...
 
hope this helps...
 .
eufdp...@yahoo.com
eufdp...@yahoo.com
eufdp...@yahoo.com
eufdp...@yahoo.com
eufdp...@yahoo.com



>
>From: Fabrício Ceolin 
>To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 3:05 PM
>Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] acpidump and acpixtract
>
>
>Hi Eric, 
>
>
>Thanks for the answer. I tryied FDAPM, but it is freeze.
>
>
>My application need to analyze ACPI structures under DOS, so my tools must 
>works at DOS only.
>
>
>The acpica tools (http://www.acpica.org/downloads/binary_tools.php)  is 
>supported only at UNIX and WINDOWS.
>
>
>I found this application too: http://www.waste.org/~winkles/acpidump/, but I 
>need to change it to use.
>
>
>There are some other tool? 
>
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:
>
>
>>Hi!
>>
>>
>>> Does anyone know if there is a pmtools (
>>> http://www.lesswatts.org/projects/acpi/utilities.php) port to FreeDOS?
>>> I need dump the acpitable and extract all tables.
>>
>>Try FDAPM ACPIDUMP (may need HIMEM) to get an hexdump, e.g.
>>FDAPM ACPIDUMP > tables.txt
>>
>>You can cut and paste interesting parts and use e.g.
>>
>>xxd -r < tables.txt > tables.bin
>>
>>And you can use e.g. the Linux / Intel acpi stuff to decode
>>the tables. Sorry for not having a full recipe, but I do
>>remember that I did it similar to this :-)
>>
>>Eric
>>
>>PS: The intel stuff (iasl, acpidump, acpitool?) is also
>>available for different operating systems, I think :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
>>demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
>>Take a complimentary Learning@Ciosco Self-Assessment and learn
>>about Cisco certifications, training, and career opportunities.
>>http://p.sf.net/sfu/cisco-dev2dev
>>___
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>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Fabrício Ceolin
>ulevel.com
>Diretor Executivo
>
>--
>The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
>demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
>Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn 
>about Cisco certifications, training, and career opportunities. 
>http://p.sf.net/sfu/cisco-dev2dev
>___
>Freedos-user mailing list
>Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>
>
>--
The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn 
about Cisco certifications, training, and career opportunities. 
http://p.sf.net/sfu/cisco-dev2dev___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user