Re: [Freedos-user] ping?
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:01:32 +0100, you wrote: Hi Gerry, I don't really understand the interest in this. Why would anyone want to install it? I mean we all have CD-ROM and bootable memory sticks these days. Why not just release a bunch of files and let people write their own installers. It's a ten minute job. The convoluted SYSLINUX installer Because today's user get used to INSTALL programs. Other concerns are 8086 compatibility and FAT32 support, as well as being able to compile FreeDOS components with opensource (or at least freely available) compilers. 8086 with FAT32 simultaneous is not practical. Maybe someone still own a 8086 PC but please consider support from 80386, because today's DOS program or XMS is for 80386. For me, the bigger issue would be native NTFS, UDF and NFS support, although I understand these are not really DOS as such. I mean how many FAT32 drives do you see these days? Not many, although I guess USB removables are causing a major FAT comeback! Sysinternal have NTFSDOS, though no LFN. NFS is exactly on of the killer application for FreeDOS, but it's a big project, must start a team to work on it, but seems no one is willing to take the job One thing that crosses my mind a lot is Should I be using Linux for boot environments instead of FreeDOS?. I don't know the answer, but I imagine Linux will cope with very modern hardware such as x64 and protected execution, serial SCSI, USB and so on, but right now FreeDOS does everything I need. A single disk Linux boot like FreeDOS, also need someone code drivers for the modern hardware. FreeDOS already can take some of the DOS drivers running. Rgds, Johnson. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today * Register for a JBoss Training Course Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005 Visit http://www.jboss.com/services/certification for more information ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] ping?
Johnson Lam schreef: 8086 with FAT32 simultaneous is not practical. Maybe someone still own a 8086 PC but please consider support from 80386, because today's DOS program or XMS is for 80386. we're just mentioning that should run on 8086, and that they should support fat32. Not that FAT32 on 8086 should work in all cases.. No 2 TeraBytes partitions on an 8bit ISA controller in a 8086..although the mailinglist did receive mail from a person with 8086 computer and cdrom installed on it. NFS is exactly on of the killer application for FreeDOS, but it's a big project, must start a team to work on it, but seems no one is willing to take the job just like opensource SMB for DOS..everything relies on MS TCP/IP stack, which is a memory hog and can hardly be loaded out of conventional memory. A single disk Linux boot like FreeDOS, also need someone code drivers for the modern hardware. FreeDOS already can take some of the DOS drivers running. I don't know how large Linux itself is nowadays. 1MB or so? The people working on the LinuxBIOS project have trouble integrating it into firmware due to size restrictions of the BIOS chip. Knoppix has also converted its own bootimage to 2.88MB (or is running Isolinux instead of direct floppy emulation). Bernd --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today * Register for a JBoss Training Course Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005 Visit http://www.jboss.com/services/certification for more information ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] ping?
Hello out there, six days without a single message on this list... is there something wrong with my email account or the list? Best regards, Andre --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today * Register for a JBoss Training Course Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005 Visit http://www.jboss.com/services/certification for more information ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] ping?
BTW: when we can expect 1.0? --- Original message --- From: Bernd Blaauw [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] ping? Date: Friday 28 October 2005 17:25 pong Hello out there, six days without a single message on this list... is there something wrong with my email account or the list? Nope, just a quiet list during the week. Weekend might be more email traffic. I guess people are waiting for each other to advance in FreeDOS development and use. We're slowly filling the WIKI system with documentation before the release of another FreeDOS distribution. http://wiki.fdos.org/pmwiki.php Best regards, Andre Bernd --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today * Register for a JBoss Training Course Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005 Visit http://www.jboss.com/services/certification for more information ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today * Register for a JBoss Training Course Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005 Visit http://www.jboss.com/services/certification for more information ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] ping?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schreef: BTW: when we can expect 1.0? End of next year. For what still needs to be done, please see http://wiki.fdos.org/Main/Todo_1_0 Delaying 1.0 beyond next year would make no sense, the amount of DOS users is limited. Already FreeDOS is very stable and usable, yet still has a few bugs. For a time schedule: end of November will have FreeDOS Beta9 Service Release #2, and 1.0 Preview series should start in Januari 2006. I'm still working on making the installation process smoother, and Blair Campbell is taking care of adding more and more packages, so we would have a full distribution instead of only the core programs. There are more people silently involved in making FreeDOS better all the time. If we only would have to consider the same goals as Microsoft's DOS 5.00, then we're at 99% currently. It's the added features, like uninstallation, dualboot scenarios with other operating systems, being able to run Windows3.xx and installing Windows from FreeDOS that are taking some effort. Other concerns are 8086 compatibility and FAT32 support, as well as being able to compile FreeDOS components with opensource (or at least freely available) compilers. Hopefully we will have some volunteers next year that can take the bugs out of components if maintainers are unavailable somehow. Bernd --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today * Register for a JBoss Training Course Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005 Visit http://www.jboss.com/services/certification for more information ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] ping?
Hi Bernd, and 1.0 Preview series should start in Januari 2006. No point rushing it:) If we only would have to consider the same goals as Microsoft's DOS 5.00, then we're at 99% currently. Surely it's way ahead of any real-mode o/s Microsoft has ever written? I'm already using it (with the help of umbpci) to build production servers with the latest hardware. MS-DOS 5 and 6 are unusable on these boxes. MS-DOS FDISK isn't scriptable, and can't cope with huge hard drives, and EMM386 can't cope with SCSI and bootable USB devices properly. Nor can they manage the memory required for networking and NTFS drivers. FreeDOS runs all this like a dream without even switching to prot-mode. When I go out to corporates now, I just take one CD with me - FreeDOS. It's the added features, like uninstallation, dualboot scenarios with other operating systems, I don't really understand the interest in this. Why would anyone want to install it? I mean we all have CD-ROM and bootable memory sticks these days. Why not just release a bunch of files and let people write their own installers. It's a ten minute job. The convoluted SYSLINUX installer and crazy FDCONFIG.SYS menus just cause confusion. All you need is a boot sector, a kernel and a few pure-text config files. Some guys will create ready-rolled ISOs and that's fine, but I don't see why it needs to be part of the core o/s. being able to run Windows3.xx and installing Windows from FreeDOS that are taking some effort. Why anyone would run Windows 3.x I don't understand, but installing Windows from FreeDOS is a snap. I have 48 client PCs and 4 production servers all running Windows 2000 which were installed hands-free by FreeDOS. You can even use LBACACHE during the file copy phase and you get bags of memory. Way superior to Microsoft DOS. Although I think Microsoft are trying to make it so you can't install Windows from real-mode anymore. They are trying to push people towards WinPE which is only available to rich corporations. You can still do Windows Server 2003 from FreeDOS, but I don't know about Vista and beyond... Other concerns are 8086 compatibility and FAT32 support, as well as being able to compile FreeDOS components with opensource (or at least freely available) compilers. For me, the bigger issue would be native NTFS, UDF and NFS support, although I understand these are not really DOS as such. I mean how many FAT32 drives do you see these days? Not many, although I guess USB removables are causing a major FAT comeback! One thing that crosses my mind a lot is Should I be using Linux for boot environments instead of FreeDOS?. I don't know the answer, but I imagine Linux will cope with very modern hardware such as x64 and protected execution, serial SCSI, USB and so on, but right now FreeDOS does everything I need. -- Gerry Hickman (London UK) --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today * Register for a JBoss Training Course Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005 Visit http://www.jboss.com/services/certification for more information ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] ping?
Gerry Hickman schreef: Surely it's way ahead of any real-mode o/s Microsoft has ever written? I'm already using it (with the help of umbpci) to build production servers with the latest hardware. MS-DOS 5 and 6 are unusable on these boxes. MS-DOS FDISK isn't scriptable, and can't cope with huge hard drives, and EMM386 can't cope with SCSI and bootable USB devices properly. Nor can they manage the memory required for networking and NTFS drivers. FreeDOS runs all this like a dream without even switching to prot-mode. If you have the opportunity to test EMM386 before taking a machine into production use.. Michael Devore will appreciate it :) In many aspects FreeDOS (or parts of it) is way beyond MS-DOS indeed. Finally a chance to implement additional functions in DOS core utilities that we want. I don't really understand the interest in this. Why would anyone want to install it? I mean we all have CD-ROM and bootable memory sticks these days. Why not just release a bunch of files and let people write their own installers. It's a ten minute job. The convoluted SYSLINUX installer and crazy FDCONFIG.SYS menus just cause confusion. All you need is a boot sector, a kernel and a few pure-text config files. Some guys will create ready-rolled ISOs and that's fine, but I don't see why it needs to be part of the core o/s. Some computers need a complete setup of the distribution, for example when you want to develop more software. Just like a full Linux distro comes with compilers etc though essentially, Linux is pretty easy to set up and lightweight. I'm aiming at a usable FreeDOS. If you merely need some binaries, just get ODIN, a single diskette binary distribution [ http://odin.fdos.org/odin2005/ ]. I never found the configuration of codepages, keyboard layouts and user's preferred language an easy thing, so I try to automate it. if only diskettes were used, I would agree with a simply batchfile which does UNZIP or XCOPY /S for the contents of several diskettes. being able to run Windows3.xx and installing Windows from FreeDOS that are taking some effort. Why anyone would run Windows 3.x I don't understand, but installing Windows from FreeDOS is a snap. I have 48 client PCs and 4 production servers all running Windows 2000 which were installed hands-free by FreeDOS. You can even use LBACACHE during the file copy phase and you get bags of memory. Way superior to Microsoft DOS. I didn't know LBACACHE would be allowed by Win2000 setup process? Does it still want Smartdrv then? Setup process for Win9x is a bit more complex, you need the SETUP /NM /IS command instead of SETUP, and even then you might still get some error. In these days, for Win3.xx goes the same as for DOS: there's a lot of applications written for it, and this version is pretty lightweight, unlike any later Windows and ReactOS. Although I think Microsoft are trying to make it so you can't install Windows from real-mode anymore. They are trying to push people towards WinPE which is only available to rich corporations. You can still do Windows Server 2003 from FreeDOS, but I don't know about Vista and beyond... Probably WinPE will boot from CD/DVD, then you can dump some preconfigured image file to harddisk, and then finish installation of Vista. For me, the bigger issue would be native NTFS, UDF and NFS support, although I understand these are not really DOS as such. I mean how many FAT32 drives do you see these days? Not many, although I guess USB removables are causing a major FAT comeback! true. these filesystems will never be native in DOS. There's not even an opensource SMB client for DOS. UDF is some kind of (read-only? packet writing?) filesystem for DVDs? One thing that crosses my mind a lot is Should I be using Linux for boot environments instead of FreeDOS?. I don't know the answer, but I imagine Linux will cope with very modern hardware such as x64 and protected execution, serial SCSI, USB and so on, but right now FreeDOS does everything I need. Each operating system its own goals and uses :) Bernd --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today * Register for a JBoss Training Course Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005 Visit http://www.jboss.com/services/certification for more information ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
