subject:"\[Freedos\-user\] tunein.com and freedos\?"


Dear Karen:


we shall see what I can and cannot do legally.


Roping in the world, is a fool's errand. Just raise awareness of human 
factors in design.

--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos? - Karen versus Liam


Dear Karen:

Liam could have made his point about reactions to Linux issues, without 
using my name, or  making statements about my motivations.


Distraction can relieve stress.

That he chose to do so, in spite of my statements  to the contrary, and 
that  he dismissed details after the fact speaks of slander, perhaps 
even intention inflection of emotional distress.


A personal attack makes more heat than light.

I have no idea what my doing a karen means, but facilitating an 
environment for bullying, is not kind either.


Techs tend to be insensitive.

learn to ask before  making suggestions, and  I feel the list will gain 
a great deal.


I welcome your insights.
--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?


Hi Liam:


I am not interested into entering into debates about your medical claims.


Tech includes human factors.


I do not live in your country and never have, so I doubt you could sue
me if I had said anything actionable, which I have not.

This is a mailing list. It cannot be edited. What is sent is sent and
it cannot be changed.


Consider reducing harm. That's *before* posting a response.


If you have problems with particular sound frequencies, or speech
frequencies, then get professional assistance.


She's done so.


Do not come on to a public mailing list and without mentioning any of
them and demand that other people who are untrained volunteers and
know nothing about you, your health, your disabilities or anything
else,  answer questions for you and then threaten them with legal
action when you don't like what you hear.


Adults can learn.


I am filtering your email address to the trash from now on,
something I have not needed to do for at least 5 years.


Learn tactful response.
--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?


Thanks, Karen, for the detailed explanation:

Most folk aren't disabled. Then they can't understand it.

Please write a guide for software folk. As disability is weakly known.
--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos? - Karen versus Liam

2021-06-25 Thread Dave Stevens

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 12:17:58 -0400 (EDT)
Karen Lewellen  wrote:

> Eric,
> Liam could have made his point about reactions to Linux issues,
> without using my name, or  making statements about my motivations.

is there some reason why this can't be taken off-list?

d


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos? - Karen versus Liam

2021-06-25 Thread Jim Hall

I am copying/pasting my comment from the original thread, so it is
also seen here:


I need to remind everyone of the list rules, linked on
https://www.freedos.org/forums/ and that point to
http://freedos.sourceforge.net/freedos/lists/remind.txt

>We have only a few rules for posting to the FreeDOS mailing lists:
>
>1. NO HATE SPEECH OR BULLYING
>[..]
>
>2. NO PROMOTIONS OR SPAM
>[..]
>
>3. BE KIND AND COURTEOUS
>[..]

(you also get a copy of this every month as an automatic email list reminder)

Liam's comment was inappropriate (rule #3) but threatening legal
action because of that comment is bullying (rule #1). The posts that
followed this are clearly way off-topic and unproductive.
This thread is dead, and needs to stop.

I'll remind everyone that this is a public email list. It's archived
by third parties, including mail-archive.
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
http://www.mail-archive.com/freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net/

As a matter of practicality, it's impossible for me or anyone to
"edit" an email sent to a public email list.

Jim


On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 11:18 AM Karen Lewellen
 wrote:
>
> Eric,
> Liam could have made his point about reactions to Linux issues, without
> using my name, or  making statements about my motivations.
> That he chose to do so, in spite of my statements  to the contrary, and
> that  he dismissed details after the fact speaks of slander, perhaps even
> intention inflection of emotional distress.
> I have no idea what my doing a karen means, but facilitating an
> environment for bullying, is not kind either.
> Thank you for your apology where your own  part in this is concerned.
> learn to ask before  making suggestions, and  I feel the list will gain a
> great deal.
> Karen
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Eric Auer wrote:
>
> >
> > Karen, Jim,
> >
> > threatening legal actions against people who misunderstand
> > your suffering is not appropriate. At all. It makes me sad
> > that getting computers to cooperate with you is so hard,
> > and I am sorry for making bad or stupid suggestions in
> > that context, but none of us is engaging in "slander".
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >> Jim,
> >> This post will be edited to remove  Liam's slander or I will investigate
> >> what may be done  legally.
> >> The internet is  increasingly a public place.
> >> I am a media and music professional, and I will not have my reputation
> >> tarnished by someone who thinks his personal use of machines makes him
> >> an expert on the lives of millions.
> >> Liam may claim he did not know, but felt he could slander me  anyway.
> >> My body and my brain, and my choices to use computers as I can right
> >> now, with the issues I have is none of his  business.
> >> Via his slander though he has made it necessary for me to talk of
> >> personal medical concerns on a public list.
> >> Something no human being should have to endure.
> >> What Liam illustrates perfectly is just why so much of Linux  remains
> >> challenging for many.
> >> The attitude of those like him who believe their  experience projects to
> >> everyone else, and that everyone  sharing a label are interchangeable.
> >> I am profoundly thankful  to  the apple techs  doctors, and scientists
> >> who believe I deserve technology that works for me, as I am, not as
> >> Liam dictionary dictates.
> >> best,
> >>
> >>  Karen lewellen
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Freedos-user mailing list
> > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
> >


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

2021-06-25 Thread Jim Hall

I need to remind everyone of the list rules, linked on
https://www.freedos.org/forums/ and that point to
http://freedos.sourceforge.net/freedos/lists/remind.txt

>We have only a few rules for posting to the FreeDOS mailing lists:
>
>1. NO HATE SPEECH OR BULLYING
>[..]
>
>2. NO PROMOTIONS OR SPAM
>[..]
>
>3. BE KIND AND COURTEOUS
>[..]

(you also get a copy of this every month as an automatic email list reminder)

Liam's comment was inappropriate (rule #3) but threatening legal
action because of that comment is bullying (rule #1). The posts that
followed this are clearly way off-topic and unproductive.
This thread is dead, and needs to stop.

I'll remind everyone that this is a public email list. It's archived
by third parties, including mail-archive.
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
http://www.mail-archive.com/freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net/

As a matter of practicality, it's impossible for me or anyone to
"edit" an email sent to a public email list.

Jim


On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 9:53 AM Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Liam Proven wrote:> Unfortunately a lot of people are 
> very technologically conservative.
> > Once they find something they like, they will stay with it at all
> > costs. Like Karen here: she likes DOS, she likes her hardware screen
> > reader, and she wants the world to come to her and interoperate with
> > her obsolete tech. Anything else is interpreted as abuse.
> >
> Indeed?
>
> Lima,
> In  1992 i experienced a vascular  stroke like accident During an eye
> surgery  due to an over exposure and allergic reaction anesthetic
> damaging
> parts of my brain which manage verbal processing.
> The science to even manage the situation, collectively known as neural
> plasticity
> did not even exist for decades.
> I have scans of my brain literary tracking  it seeking functional nerves,
> and when exposed to verbal information within certain frequency ranges
> the results are quite catastrophic.
> There is a
>   book called the brain's way of healing.
> Some of the doctors  referenced working here in Toronto, and using the part
> of my brain that manages  sound like music, actually developed a program
> specifically to work with my problem, supported by major medical research
> institutions like New York University, who captured my brain at first,  and 
> Jon's Hopkins.
> We made some progress, but I must use a computer every day, my brain's
> function  fluctuates, with even some ranges of cordless phone, mobile
> devices, and yes sir, synthesized speech still a profound physical risk.
> leading to the epileptic like reactions I spoke of, for my body alone, as I
> accommodate my *individual* disability experiences.
> >  sShe  would  be much better off if she were willing to experiment and
> try
> > other things, but she will not accept that.
> >
>
> Liam,
> in 2017 I made an appointment  with an apple genius in Toronto to sit down
> and test the frequency ranges of various apple voices in the IOS
> environment.
>   I passed out in the store..twice.
> Last year, we tried again, fortunately I only started throwing up, and
> in march 2021, it was Google's talkback system, causing my speech to slur
> and for me to be dizzy for several days, still playing for that
> experiment,  since I cannot see my team during the pandemic.
> Oh and that ZTE phone claims to use Linux as its operating system too.
> How do you know what I am willing to experiment with?   when did we meet?
> What copies of my scans, tests, results have you personally reviewed?
> This is a public list liam, and you are engaging in slander.
> How dare you claim to know what I have fought to do for  my body, how much
> I have sought to expand my choices.
> There is no place to test with the Linux environment,  something I have
> investigated regularly for  almost 20 years.
> Jim,
> This post will be edited to remove  Liam's slander or I will investigate
> what may be done  legally.
> The internet is  increasingly a public place.
> I am a media and music professional, and I will not have my reputation
> tarnished by someone who thinks his personal use of machines makes him an
> expert on the lives of millions.
> Liam may claim he did not know, but felt he could slander me  anyway.
> My body and my brain, and my choices to use computers as I can right now,
> with the issues I have is none of his  business.
> Via his slander though he has made it necessary for me to talk of personal
> medical concerns on a public list.
> Something no human being should have to endure.
> What Liam illustrates perfectly is just why so much of Linux  remains
> challenging for many.
> The attitude of those like him who believe their  experience projects to
> everyone else, and that everyone  sharing a label are interchangeable.
> I am profoundly thankful  to  the apple techs  doctors, and scientists
> who
> believe I deserve technology that works for me, as I am, not as  Liam
> dictionary dictates.
>

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos? - Karen versus Liam


Eric,
Liam could have made his point about reactions to Linux issues, without 
using my name, or  making statements about my motivations.
That he chose to do so, in spite of my statements  to the contrary, and 
that  he dismissed details after the fact speaks of slander, perhaps even 
intention inflection of emotional distress.
I have no idea what my doing a karen means, but facilitating an 
environment for bullying, is not kind either.
Thank you for your apology where your own  part in this is concerned. 
learn to ask before  making suggestions, and  I feel the list will gain a 
great deal.

Karen




On Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Eric Auer wrote:



Karen, Jim,

threatening legal actions against people who misunderstand
your suffering is not appropriate. At all. It makes me sad
that getting computers to cooperate with you is so hard,
and I am sorry for making bad or stupid suggestions in
that context, but none of us is engaging in "slander".

Eric


Jim,
This post will be edited to remove  Liam's slander or I will investigate
what may be done  legally.
The internet is  increasingly a public place.
I am a media and music professional, and I will not have my reputation
tarnished by someone who thinks his personal use of machines makes him
an expert on the lives of millions.
Liam may claim he did not know, but felt he could slander me  anyway.
My body and my brain, and my choices to use computers as I can right
now, with the issues I have is none of his  business.
Via his slander though he has made it necessary for me to talk of
personal medical concerns on a public list.
Something no human being should have to endure.
What Liam illustrates perfectly is just why so much of Linux  remains
challenging for many.
The attitude of those like him who believe their  experience projects to
everyone else, and that everyone  sharing a label are interchangeable.
I am profoundly thankful  to  the apple techs  doctors, and scientists
who believe I deserve technology that works for me, as I am, not as 
Liam dictionary dictates.
best,

 Karen lewellen



___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos? - Karen versus Liam

2021-06-25 Thread Michael Powell

'Culture' at large really is knocking on the door of pravda+izvestia.
That's my 'suffering' through this thread...

On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 11:39 AM Eric Auer  wrote:

>
> Karen, Jim,
>
> threatening legal actions against people who misunderstand
> your suffering is not appropriate. At all. It makes me sad
> that getting computers to cooperate with you is so hard,
> and I am sorry for making bad or stupid suggestions in
> that context, but none of us is engaging in "slander".
>
> Eric
>
> > Jim,
> > This post will be edited to remove  Liam's slander or I will investigate
> > what may be done  legally.
> > The internet is  increasingly a public place.
> > I am a media and music professional, and I will not have my reputation
> > tarnished by someone who thinks his personal use of machines makes him
> > an expert on the lives of millions.
> > Liam may claim he did not know, but felt he could slander me  anyway.
> > My body and my brain, and my choices to use computers as I can right
> > now, with the issues I have is none of his  business.
> > Via his slander though he has made it necessary for me to talk of
> > personal medical concerns on a public list.
> > Something no human being should have to endure.
> > What Liam illustrates perfectly is just why so much of Linux  remains
> > challenging for many.
> > The attitude of those like him who believe their  experience projects to
> > everyone else, and that everyone  sharing a label are interchangeable.
> > I am profoundly thankful  to  the apple techs  doctors, and scientists
> > who believe I deserve technology that works for me, as I am, not as
> > Liam dictionary dictates.
> > best,
> >
> >  Karen lewellen
>
>
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos? - Karen versus Liam

2021-06-25 Thread Eric Auer


Karen, Jim,

threatening legal actions against people who misunderstand
your suffering is not appropriate. At all. It makes me sad
that getting computers to cooperate with you is so hard,
and I am sorry for making bad or stupid suggestions in
that context, but none of us is engaging in "slander".

Eric

> Jim,
> This post will be edited to remove  Liam's slander or I will investigate
> what may be done  legally.
> The internet is  increasingly a public place.
> I am a media and music professional, and I will not have my reputation
> tarnished by someone who thinks his personal use of machines makes him
> an expert on the lives of millions.
> Liam may claim he did not know, but felt he could slander me  anyway.
> My body and my brain, and my choices to use computers as I can right
> now, with the issues I have is none of his  business.
> Via his slander though he has made it necessary for me to talk of
> personal medical concerns on a public list.
> Something no human being should have to endure.
> What Liam illustrates perfectly is just why so much of Linux  remains
> challenging for many.
> The attitude of those like him who believe their  experience projects to
> everyone else, and that everyone  sharing a label are interchangeable.
> I am profoundly thankful  to  the apple techs  doctors, and scientists
> who believe I deserve technology that works for me, as I am, not as 
> Liam dictionary dictates.
> best,
> 
>  Karen lewellen


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

2021-06-25 Thread geneb


On Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Karen Lewellen wrote:


we shall see what I can and cannot do legally.




Karen's gonna Karen I guess.

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?


we shall see what I can and cannot do legally.



On Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Liam Proven wrote:


I am not interested into entering into debates about your medical claims.

I do not live in your country and never have, so I doubt you could sue
me if I had said anything actionable, which I have not.

This is a mailing list. It cannot be edited. What is sent is sent and
it cannot be changed.

If you have problems with particular sound frequencies, or speech
frequencies, then get professional assistance.

Do not come on to a public mailing list and without mentioning any of
them and demand that other people who are untrained volunteers and
know nothing about you, your health, your disabilities or anything
else,  answer questions for you and then threaten them with legal
action when you don't like what you hear.

Good bye. I am filtering your email address to the trash from now on,
something I have not needed to do for at least 5 years.


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user





___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

2021-06-25 Thread Liam Proven

I am not interested into entering into debates about your medical claims.

I do not live in your country and never have, so I doubt you could sue
me if I had said anything actionable, which I have not.

This is a mailing list. It cannot be edited. What is sent is sent and
it cannot be changed.

If you have problems with particular sound frequencies, or speech
frequencies, then get professional assistance.

Do not come on to a public mailing list and without mentioning any of
them and demand that other people who are untrained volunteers and
know nothing about you, your health, your disabilities or anything
else,  answer questions for you and then threaten them with legal
action when you don't like what you hear.

Good bye. I am filtering your email address to the trash from now on,
something I have not needed to do for at least 5 years.


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Liam Proven wrote:> Unfortunately a lot of people are very
technologically conservative.

Once they find something they like, they will stay with it at all
costs. Like Karen here: she likes DOS, she likes her hardware screen
reader, and she wants the world to come to her and interoperate with
her obsolete tech. Anything else is interpreted as abuse.

Indeed?

Lima,
In 1992 i experienced a vascular stroke like accident During an eye
surgery due to an over exposure and allergic reaction anesthetic
damaging
parts of my brain which manage verbal processing.
The science to even manage the situation, collectively known as neural
plasticity

did not even exist for decades.
I have scans of my brain literary tracking it seeking functional nerves,
and when exposed to verbal information within certain frequency ranges
the results are quite catastrophic.

There is a
book called the brain's way of healing.
Some of the doctors referenced working here in Toronto, and using the part
of my brain that manages sound like music, actually developed a program
specifically to work with my problem, supported by major medical research
institutions like New York University, who captured my brain at first, and Jon's Hopkins.
We made some progress, but I must use a computer every day, my brain's
function fluctuates, with even some ranges of cordless phone, mobile
devices, and yes sir, synthesized speech still a profound physical risk.
leading to the epileptic like reactions I spoke of, for my body alone, as I
accommodate my *individual* disability experiences.
sShe would be much better off if she were willing to experiment and

try

other things, but she will not accept that.

Liam,
in 2017 I made an appointment with an apple genius in Toronto to sit down
and test the frequency ranges of various apple voices in the IOS
environment.

I passed out in the store..twice.
Last year, we tried again, fortunately I only started throwing up, and
in march 2021, it was Google's talkback system, causing my speech to slur
and for me to be dizzy for several days, still playing for that
experiment, since I cannot see my team during the pandemic.

Oh and that ZTE phone claims to use Linux as its operating system too.
How do you know what I am willing to experiment with? when did we meet?
What copies of my scans, tests, results have you personally reviewed?
This is a public list liam, and you are engaging in slander.
How dare you claim to know what I have fought to do for my body, how much
I have sought to expand my choices.
There is no place to test with the Linux environment, something I have
investigated regularly for almost 20 years.

Jim,
This post will be edited to remove Liam's slander or I will investigate
what may be done legally.

The internet is increasingly a public place.
I am a media and music professional, and I will not have my reputation
tarnished by someone who thinks his personal use of machines makes him an
expert on the lives of millions.

Liam may claim he did not know, but felt he could slander me anyway.
My body and my brain, and my choices to use computers as I can right now,
with the issues I have is none of his business.
Via his slander though he has made it necessary for me to talk of personal
medical concerns on a public list.

Something no human being should have to endure.
What Liam illustrates perfectly is just why so much of Linux remains
challenging for many.
The attitude of those like him who believe their experience projects to
everyone else, and that everyone sharing a label are interchangeable.
I am profoundly thankful to the apple techs doctors, and scientists
who
believe I deserve technology that works for me, as I am, not as Liam
dictionary dictates.

best,

Karen lewellen

> This attitude is what has kept Microsoft immensely
profitable. >

A similar one is what has kept Linux as the most successful server OS
in the world. It is just a modernised version of a quick and dirty
hack of an OS from the 1960s, but it's capable and it's free. "Good
enough" is the enemy of better.

There are hundreds of other operating systems out there. I listed 25
non-Linux FOSS OSes in this piece, and yes, FreeDOS was included:
https://www.theregister.com/Print/2013/11/01/25_alternative_pc_operating_systems/

There are dozens that are better in various ways than Unix and Linux.
??? Minix 3 is a better FOSS Unix than Linux: a true microkernel which
can cope with parts of itself failing without crashing the computer.
??? Plan 9 is a better UNIX than Unix. Everything really *is* a file and
the network is the computer.
??? Inferno is a better Plan 9 than Plan 9: the network is your
computer, with full processor and OS-independence.
??? Plan 9's UI is based on Oberon: an entire mouse-driven OS in 10,000
lines of rigorous, type-safe code, *including* the compiler and IDE.
??? A2 is the modern descendant of Oberon: real-time capable, a full
GUI,

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?


Dear Karen:

Very much so, part of why asking, rather than assuming anything about 
another human being is wise.


I'd like you to write up your insights. Launch a thread on software 
access for the disabled.

--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

Very much so, part of why asking, rather than assuming anything about 
another human being is wise.




On Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Bryan Kilgallin wrote:


Hi Karen:

Thanks for the info. The disabled are varied. And one's life experience is 
subjective.

--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user





___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

2021-06-25 Thread Eric Auer



Hi Carsten,

I also use a Python script to access online media such as
youtube, called youtube-dl. It often needs to be updated
to work with the newest changes on youtube, but it also
works with a number of other websites including various
media libraries of TV and radio stations. So I like the
general idea of using such scripts to extract the live
stream URL for radio stations and then listening to those
with MPXPLAY or MPLAYER which are both available for DOS.

Having to deal with tunein.com, which also seems to require
a login, could make things more complex than they tend to
be on the websites of the radio stations themselves, which
often have listen now live links to their streams for users
who are not in range of their FM or other broadcasts or who
simply prefer to listen via internet.

At the moment, the following 3 cases are in my bookmarks:

- one station has an icecast server which offers a simple
  HTTP URL for an infinitely large MP3 "file"

- one station offers a M3U playlist via HTTP which simply
  is a file containing the HTTP URL of an MP3 stream again

- another station uses Akamai as content delivery network
  which offers M3U8 Unicode-playlist files which then
  point to the audio delivered in small segment files

The latter would probably be a problem for DOS, but having
a plain HTTP URL of a simple MP3 stream, optionally accessed
through a playlist text file, would be quite feasible to use
as long as you have a network-enabled MP3 player. If you did
not have one, you would have to download the MP3 as long as
the show is on, then truncate the download and listen to it
after the show has ended, which is not very convenient at all.

As Karen mentioned accessing an Ubuntu computer via SSH,
the youtube-dl script could be run on that computer to
get the URL of the actual radio stream, or preferrably
the URL of the (dynamical) playlist file. The URL could
then be used together with a DOS media player to listen
to the radio station. The URL might change frequently.

I remember that the Python script is surprisingly large
and complex, so I do not expect that to work on Python
for DOS. It actually is a ZIP container with 800 files
which would unpack to more than 5 MB and which import:

base64 binascii calendar codecs collections contextlib
copy ctypes datetime email email.header email.utils
errno fileinput functools getpass gzip hashlib hmac io
itertools json locale math netrc operator optparse os
os.path platform random  shlex shutil socket ssl string
struct subprocess sys tempfile time tokenize traceback
uuid xml.etree.ElementTree xml.etree.ElementTree zlib.

About Dectalk USB: People have tried to use it in Linux
with speakup ( http://linux-speakup.org/ originally a
screen reader) which is supposed to support, apart from
the speakup software, Accent PC/SA, Apollo, Audapter,
Braile 'n Speak and similar Blazie products, DecTalk
Express/External/Internal PC, DoubleTalk PC, Keynote
Internal PC, LiteTalk or DoubleTalk LT, Speakout and
Transport. After booting, DecTalk PC (ISA card) and a
number of software synthesizers additionally become
accessible. For example Fonix seems to sell a software
which has the same voice as DecTalk?

The problem is that only the serial port versions of
DecTalk are supported directly, not the USB version:

http://www.axsol.com/at_decusb.php

Note that the device actually has both ports, USB and
RS232. So people have tried to use it from Linux by
connecting USB to serial adapters to their PC. That
can be accessed like a Dectalk Express, but they got
some delays caused by the extra abstraction layer.

Note that the USB port of the Dectalk USB can still
be connected to provide power for the device, which
avoids having to use the separate wall power adapter.

https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-speakup/msg32819.html

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-hardware-18/4-second-delay-in-a-dectalk-usb-after-typing-4175685905/

This could also be interesting for DOS users in case
they have computers which no longer provide serial
ports. If suitable USB serial port drivers can talk
to the DOS software which would use Dectalk, then
they could still use it. That would be a question
for Bret Johnson (free drivers) and Georg Potthast
(shareware drivers).

Note that according to a newer discussion here

https://mail.gnome.org/archives/orca-list/2010-April/msg00328.html

the price of the USB version was rather high, so
it would be a bit of a waste to use it in Dectalk
Express emulation mode with USB serial converters.

Carsten, thanks for the text version of Firefox
link to brow.sh - interestingly, the author has
an article about getting rid of facebook/google:

https://tombh.co.uk/deleting-facebook-and-google

Liam, I would have expected Linux to also work
for blind users with the GUI, with limitations
regarding which apps are supported well enough?
As you say, using shell apps is not everybodies
taste, although the shell can be quite powerful.

I completely agree that

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?


Hi Liam:


Unfortunately a lot of people are very technologically conservative.
Once they find something they like, they will stay with it at all
costs. Like Karen here: she likes DOS, she likes her hardware screen
reader, and she wants the world to come to her and interoperate with
her obsolete tech. Anything else is interpreted as abuse.

Keeping up to date is very time-consuming. A lot of people don't want that!
--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

2021-06-25 Thread Liam Proven

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 at 03:56, Eric Auer  wrote:
>
> PS Liam: I am surprised that you have so much experience
> with screen readers, so maybe you could share some ideas
> about which of the free Linux TTS engines have which
> strengths and weaknesses based on what both you and
> the users you know think about them in recent years?
> And assuming that Knoppix is quite "German", which Linux
> distros are your users using with which text output path?

The answer is simple but fairly depressing: basically everyone I know
personally or via friends of friends who is a computer user, uses
Windows or Mac. There is a significant move from Windows to Mac.

Younger computer users -- by which I mean people who started using
computers since the 1990s and widespread internet usage, i.e. most of
them -- tend to expect graphical user interfaces, menus and so on, and
not to be happy with command-line-driven programs.

This applies every bit as much to blind users.

Linux can work very well for blind users *if* they use the terminal.
The Linux shell is the richest and most powerful command-line
environment there is or ever has been, and one can accomplish almost
anything one wants to do using it.

But it's still a command line, and a notably unfriendly and unhelpful
one at that.

In my experience, for a lot of GUI users, that is just too much.

For instance, a decade or so back, the Register ran some articles I
wrote on switching to Linux. They were, completely intentionally, what
is sometimes today called "opinionated" -- that is, I did not try to
present balance or a spread of options. Instead I presented what was,
IMHO, the best choices.

https://www.theregister.com/Print/2010/06/21/reg_linux_guide_1/

https://www.theregister.com/Print/2010/06/23/reg_linux_guide_2/

https://www.theregister.com/Print/2010/06/24/reg_linux_guide_3/

Multiple readers complained that I included a handful of commands to
type in. "This is why Linux is not usable! This is why it is not ready
for the real world! Ordinary people can't do this weird arcane stuff!"
And so on.

Probably some of these remarks are still there in the comments pages.

In vain did some others try to reason with them.

But it was 10x quicker to copy-and-paste these commands!
-> No, it's too hard.

He could give GUI steps but it would take pages.
-> Then that's what he should have done, because we don't do this
weird terminal nonsense.

But then the article would have been 10x longer and you wouldn't read it.
-> Well then the OS is not ready, it's not suitable for normal people.

If you just copy-and-paste, it's like 3 mouse clicks and you can't
make a typing error.
-> But it's still weird and scary and I DON'T LIKE IT.

You can't win.

This is why Linux Mint succeeded -- partly because when Ubuntu
introduced its non-Windows-like desktop after Microsoft threatened to
sue, Mint hoovered up those users who wanted it Windows-like.

But also because Mint didn't make you install the optional extras. It
bundled them, and so what if that makes it illegal to distribute in
some countries? It Just Worked out of the box, and it looked familiar,
and that won them millions of fans.

Mac OS X has done extremely well partly because users never _ever_
need to go need a command line, for anything, ever. You can if you
want, but you never, ever need to.

If that means you can't move your swap file to another drive, so be
it. If that means that a tonne of the classic Unix configuration files
are gone, replaced by a networked configuration database, so be it.
Apple is not afraid to break things in order to make something better.

The result has been to become the first trillion-dollar computer
company, and hundreds of millions of happy customers.

Linux gives you choices, lets you pick what you want, work the way you
want... and despite offering the results for free, the result has been
about 1% of the desktop market and basically zero of the tablet and
smartphone markets.

Ubuntu made a valiant effort to make a desktop of Mac-like simplicity,
and it successfully went from a new entrant in a busy marketplace in
2004 to being the #1 desktop Linux within a decade. It has made
virtually no dent on the non-Linux world, though.

After 20 years of this, Google (after *bitter* internal argument)
introduced ChromeOS, a Linux which takes away *all* your choices. It
only runs on Google hardware, has no apps, no desktop, no package
management, no choices at all. It gives you a dead cheap, virus-proof
computer that gets you on the Web.

In less time than Ubuntu took to win about 1% of the Windows market
over to Linux, ChromeBooks persuaded about one third of the world
laptop buying market to switch to Linux. More Chromebooks sell every
year -- tens of millions -- than Ubuntu users *in total since it
lauched*.

What effect has this had on desktop Linux? Zero. None at all. If that
is the price of success, they are not willing to pay it. What Google
has done is so unspeakable foul, so wrong, so blasphemous,

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?


Hi Eric:


I do have some experience with writing a simple adapter
for Dutch text to speech long ago, so I am actually aware
of the limitations of the technology. Even now, youtubers
who prefer to stay anonymous use annoyingly artifically
sounding speech engines. I think I even have a chip from
back when it was important to offload speech output from
the CPU to dedicated hardware somewhere in my collection:


I made a couple of Arduino projects. One drove a SpeakJet speech 
synthesiser chip. I tried to make that American voice express Australian 
phrases. So I discovered some dialectical differences.


American English is rhotic--whereas Australian English is non-rhotic. 
English orthography (spelling)--does not guide how a speaker pronounces 
a word. Take for example "I drove my car to the bar to play cards.". An 
Aussie says "I drove my kaa to the baa to play kaads". As in "Baa, baa, 
black sheep", without pronouncing any `r's. Australian English Also has 
the triphthong "oua". So an Aussie pronounces "Once one was", as "Ooanss 
ouann ouazz".

--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

2021-06-25 Thread Carsten Strotmann

Hello Karen,

On 25 Jun 2021, at 4:46, Karen Lewellen wrote:

> I use sshdos to reach a Ubuntu shell, but even in Ubuntu the links and elinks 
> JavaScript falls short in places, especially if cloudflare is being used.

do you know "browsh"?

https://www.brow.sh/

It is an up-to-date browser based on Firefox that renders all Javascript, CSS, 
HTML5, WebGL and even video as text. It can be used from DOS via SSH (SSHDOS) 
on a Ubuntu shell, but might render more modern pages compared to Links.

Greetings

Carsten

signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

2021-06-25 Thread Carsten Strotmann

Hi Karen,

On 24 Jun 2021, at 23:49, Karen Lewellen wrote:

> Links for DOS, for what it is,  opens some doors, but not all, something I 
> would happily pay to see corrected.

I know the tunein.com website (I've used it myself from time to time).

I use a command line application (on MacOS) to access youtube videos and music 
streams (The application is called mps-youtube and is written in Python). This 
application is not a browser but is specially tailored towards youtube in such 
that it uses the Youtube API and knows how to extract information from the 
Youtube website.

I guess something similar would be theoretical possible for the tunein.com 
website, even as a DOS application. However it would be much work to write such 
an application, but less work than getting a general purpose browser such as 
Links enhanced to be able to browse the tunein.com page.

One possible issue I see is that a page such as tunein.com could try to make 
accessing the music streams without a full browser very difficult, as they 
might change the page structure frequently. Webpages like tunein.com often make 
their money through advertisement, and they try to prevent all ways that users 
can access the content of the page without seeing the advertisements.

As far as I see, tunein.com does not provide the music/radio content themself, 
but they aggregate content from other places (such as German radio stations).

So maybe to reach your goal, an alternative solution might be to have a command 
line tool that aggregates web radio stations in the same way tunein.com does, 
but without using the tunein.com website.

Still, creating such an application is quite difficult. I myself as a developer 
would have no idea if under DOS it is possible to get useable audio streaming 
via network.

If I was tasked by a customer to design a solution, I would write the frontend 
in DOS (to browse and select the audio streams), and that front end would 
communicate via network or serial like with a small Linux system (Raspberry PI 
style) attached to the DOS computer. The Linux box would be doing the 
downloading of the audio stream and the audio processing. The user would not 
interact with the Linux system at all, all interaction would be on DOS, but the 
Linux "box" would be a "hardware" extension for audio stream processing.

Greetings

Carsten

signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?


Hi Karen:

Thanks for the info. The disabled are varied. And one's life experience 
is subjective.

--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?


Eric,
clearly you do not know the difference between software and hardware 
speech, if you can even suggest I risk myself ..again, by talking of Linux 
below.

The only point I will speak to is one that echos your own.
If Links incorporated additional forms of JavaScript then the one used, 
same can be said for e-links, then  for me personally those browsers might 
be  just fine.
I use sshdos to reach a Ubuntu shell, but even in Ubuntu the links and 
elinks JavaScript falls short in places, especially if cloudflare is being 
used.
In the case of Links for dos, there are two problems, the JavaScript one, 
and  the lack of automatic  speech in links for dos.  It is not a problem 
for the  editions of the software incorporated into the Ubuntu shell, such 
as the one dreamhost provides with its  shared hosting accounts.
I keep meaning to write the developers about this issue, but have not 
found the time.
as for Dos adaptive technology having the ability to manage graphics, it 
depends on how the graphical interface is written and the nature of the 
tool, there are scores of them after all.
certainly I want a DOS only solution, I use only DOS, and this  is a  list 
called freedos.
If I want to be reminded of all the Linux problems, I need only read the 
lists like speakup, where even in the command line Linux cannot find a 
dectalk USB.  Lastly text to speech is not a screen reader.
Opting out of further discussion, We have a good 12 years of 
miscommunication, and I have no vested interest in talking to walls.




On Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Eric Auer wrote:



Karen,

I was not aware that Linux screen reader voices trigger seizures.
Nobody is forcing you to use those, or even to use Linux at all.

Not sure why exactly mentioning Braille is evil. The underlying
software infrastructure task is the same: Take text from an app
and transform it to another output modality. Even back in the days
of CTTY COM1 with DOS, the problem existed that not all apps are
using the proper interfaces to be redirectable and between the
lines, I also wanted to express my doubts that Blue Lion would
be part of the solution, as proposed by Liam, but I have no OS/2
adaptive technology experience myself.

My reference to text oriented browsers was based on the assumption
that in DOS, adaptive technology would NOT have a standardized
interface to communicate with graphical applications, because
DOS does not provide graphical building blocks to the apps.

So if you use Arachne or Dillo in DOS, there might be problems
which you could avoid by using a text based browser in DOS. If
there are NO problems with your DOS drivers, great, please let
us know! Just mentioning that DOS apps with GUI may have issues.

Of course Linux does support connecting texts used by graphical
applications, at least from more widespread GUI frameworks, to
be processed by adaptive technology. As you write, there also
is the problem whether the output side of that can work with
the style, brand or hardware you prefer to use.

My impression was that Liam's suggestion to use OS/2 or Blue
Lion was not solving the task at hand either, so I focused
on which browsers could be suitable in DOS. Knowing that you
had explicitly asked for a DOS based solution.


Links for DOS, for what it is,  opens some doors, but not all


Which features are useful in Links, which are missing?


if Linux is such a grand solution, why cannot a  graphical
installation be configured so it can  communicate with physical
speech hardware?


You mentioned having no Linux driver for your speech hardware,
so I expect that problem to be not limited to the installer.
Support for hardware speech devices in Linux is quite limited:

Knoppix, which explicitly supports the ADRIANE Audio Desktop
Reference Implementation and Networking Environment starting
at the installation itself, uses ELINKS as browser with both
javascript and multimedia support. It also uses ORCA OCR to
fetch text from graphical applications IF those fail to have
adaptive access to text fields and espeak for text to speech
(quality varies a lot depending on installed voices).

https://www.knopper.net/knoppix-adriane/index-en.html

According to the German SBL (used by Knoppix) documentation,
the system supports Papenmeier, Handytech, Baum, Alva, Tiemann
and Blazie Braille devices. For text to speech, Apollo2,
Vox700, Festival, TTSynth, Speechd and MNROLA are supported.

Of course, none of this is relevant for DOS browsers. I do
not expect graphical DOS apps to have good compatibility
with anything beyond VGA, but of course I am happy to hear
about DOS GUI apps which do support more output modalities.

I do have some experience with writing a simple adapter
for Dutch text to speech long ago, so I am actually aware
of the limitations of the technology. Even now, youtubers
who prefer to stay anonymous use annoyingly artifically
sounding speech engines. I think I even have a chip from
back when it was important to offload speech output from
the

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

2021-06-24 Thread Eric Auer


Karen,

I was not aware that Linux screen reader voices trigger seizures.
Nobody is forcing you to use those, or even to use Linux at all.

Not sure why exactly mentioning Braille is evil. The underlying
software infrastructure task is the same: Take text from an app
and transform it to another output modality. Even back in the days
of CTTY COM1 with DOS, the problem existed that not all apps are
using the proper interfaces to be redirectable and between the
lines, I also wanted to express my doubts that Blue Lion would
be part of the solution, as proposed by Liam, but I have no OS/2
adaptive technology experience myself.

My reference to text oriented browsers was based on the assumption
that in DOS, adaptive technology would NOT have a standardized
interface to communicate with graphical applications, because
DOS does not provide graphical building blocks to the apps.

So if you use Arachne or Dillo in DOS, there might be problems
which you could avoid by using a text based browser in DOS. If
there are NO problems with your DOS drivers, great, please let
us know! Just mentioning that DOS apps with GUI may have issues.

Of course Linux does support connecting texts used by graphical
applications, at least from more widespread GUI frameworks, to
be processed by adaptive technology. As you write, there also
is the problem whether the output side of that can work with
the style, brand or hardware you prefer to use.

My impression was that Liam's suggestion to use OS/2 or Blue
Lion was not solving the task at hand either, so I focused
on which browsers could be suitable in DOS. Knowing that you
had explicitly asked for a DOS based solution.

> Links for DOS, for what it is,  opens some doors, but not all

Which features are useful in Links, which are missing?

> if Linux is such a grand solution, why cannot a  graphical
> installation be configured so it can  communicate with physical
> speech hardware?

You mentioned having no Linux driver for your speech hardware,
so I expect that problem to be not limited to the installer.
Support for hardware speech devices in Linux is quite limited:

Knoppix, which explicitly supports the ADRIANE Audio Desktop
Reference Implementation and Networking Environment starting
at the installation itself, uses ELINKS as browser with both
javascript and multimedia support. It also uses ORCA OCR to
fetch text from graphical applications IF those fail to have
adaptive access to text fields and espeak for text to speech
(quality varies a lot depending on installed voices).

https://www.knopper.net/knoppix-adriane/index-en.html

According to the German SBL (used by Knoppix) documentation,
the system supports Papenmeier, Handytech, Baum, Alva, Tiemann
and Blazie Braille devices. For text to speech, Apollo2,
Vox700, Festival, TTSynth, Speechd and MNROLA are supported.

Of course, none of this is relevant for DOS browsers. I do
not expect graphical DOS apps to have good compatibility
with anything beyond VGA, but of course I am happy to hear
about DOS GUI apps which do support more output modalities.

I do have some experience with writing a simple adapter
for Dutch text to speech long ago, so I am actually aware
of the limitations of the technology. Even now, youtubers
who prefer to stay anonymous use annoyingly artifically
sounding speech engines. I think I even have a chip from
back when it was important to offload speech output from
the CPU to dedicated hardware somewhere in my collection:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Instrument_SP0256

That thing sounded quite bad even for English. Luckily,
hardware speech output devices today just contain their
own computers, with dedicated optimized TTS software.

> If freedos is never going to provide a proper browser,
> how can it claim to be a fully functional operating
> system where networking is concerned?

Actually DOS does not claim to be a networked operating
system at all. There are some de facto standards for
network drivers for DOS which are in turn used by DOS
applications which implement their own networking, but
this is not something provided by DOS as the operating
system. So I think it would not be better or worse if
you were to find a way to use a Windows browser with
low enough system requirements to run it on Japheth's
HX RT and HX GUI which lets you run some Windows apps
directly inside DOS. Of course this would depend on
whether HX can connect to your adaptive technology. In
any case, using the world wide web in DOS is something
which can be quite frustrating for everybody, but then
DOS does not make any promises about networking either.

Regards, Eric

PS Liam: I am surprised that you have so much experience
with screen readers, so maybe you could share some ideas
about which of the free Linux TTS engines have which
strengths and weaknesses based on what both you and
the users you know think about them in recent years?
And assuming that Knoppix is quite "German", which Linux
distros are your users using with

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

2021-06-24 Thread Bryan Kilgallin


Hi, Liam:

Disability is a subject that was not taught in my schooling. And some of 
it "does not show on X-Rays! Best wishes with your learning of the human 
condition.

--
members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

One more  point.
According to my file of posts, I joined the freedos list in 2009.
If after more than a decade, Eric or anyone else believes that a shared 
label   equals a uniformed experience where sight loss or any accessibility 
situation  is concerned, you have likely earned  my venom as well.  after 
all there are  more than a billion people estimated on the planet who 
share some form of disability label..and all of them deserve to be asked, 
not told.

Karen

On Thu, 24 Jun 2021, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Liam,
1. Eric and I have been through these exchanges before...going back years,
2. He did not ask, simply said, in spite of my statement otherwise, that I 
could  use Linux..as if I do not know, living in this body, what I can or 
cannot use.
3. I need not demonstrate what only applies to myself, since I am not 
attempting to  claim that anyone else should accommodate their needs as I do.
As he lead with statements, not questions, has no medical or other background 
qualifying those statements, and is not directly involved in my care, I owe 
him nothing, having given my word about my needs.
as stated, in many ways adaptive tools are not a  feature, they are a part of 
how one uses their body.
He may as well have asked me to  change my legs if I were in a wheelchair. I 
have expressed frustration with his stance in the past, and he choose not to 
learn.
4. from a different  comment, I wonder if someone might work on a modern DOS 
browser if paid enough.
I do apologize to you,  as I dare say my tone, for someone unaware of prior 
list exchanges might seem harsh.  Eric, speaking personally, earned those 
comments by not asking.

Why cannot you  use Linux instead?
Never mind that this is a DOS list...making  his  stating  and assuming, as 
he often does, fortification for  my motivation.
The information about little braille use is a search away,  and has been the 
case for decades, so that assumption  is indeed stereotypical.

Kare

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Liam Proven wrote:

 On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 at 23:50, Karen Lewellen 
 wrote:
> 
>  As for your frankly disturbing stereotypes and generalizations about

>  adaptive technology and the individuals using it, well, I would hope you
>  would not tell someone to do themselves physical harm to satisfy your
>  stereotypes, something you just did to me.

 This is unfair, undeserved and frankly rude.

>  I stated that there is no Linux distribution that I can use...

 You have not demonstrated any actual knowledge of this, though.

>  you
>  suggest  I use  something that I already know  could  result in my
>  hospitalization..why exactly?

 1. He did not suggest anything of the kind.

 2. He did not know anything of the kind, because you have not told us
 anything about what issues you may or may not have, so we have nothing
 to go on and no way to decide what is or is not appropriate.

 3. You are unfairly throwing serious accusations around, and you
 should be ashamed of yourself.

>  I believe I know more about  my adaptive needs then yourself.

 Yes, you do, but if you had told us anything, we could help. You did not.

>  Screen readers are used by many  populations,  for
>  learning disabilities for example, with less than 10% of the
>  sight loss  population reading braille..at all.

 Oddly enough I have been working with screen reader users
 professionally for over 15 years now.

 You don't know about us, we don't know about you. The difference is we
 are not making assumptions: you are.

>  You are no medical professional, and until you have personally made  use
>  of adaptive technology daily, for at least 30 years please do not risk
>  physical danger to another person as you have done here...

 This is completely bogus. If you ask for info, you get info; you do
 not get to complain if you do not like it.

>  Use Linux indeed, and have a Cesar?

 I presume you mean a seizure.

>  Linux is out,  because the software  speech synthesis stimulates my
>  brain's dizzy centres at best, causing epileptic like reactions at 
>  minimum

>  and risking unconsciousness   with prolong exposure.

 I have never met or even heard of anything like this in my decade and
 a half of work experience with sensorily-impaired computer users,
 including blind, deaf and deaf-blind users.

 I am starting to doubt that you are being sincere and honest with us here.

>  In fact that
>  applies to most software speech for me...which is what Linux graphical
>  uses.

 It is what all modern screen readers use, and I personally have used
 them on Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, Android, iOS, and Symbian.

 The reasons  are very simple and clear.

 1. It is much cheaper.
 2. It needs no hardware, no drivers, no connection, no support, nothing.
 3. It is almost infinitely customisable in terms of speed, pitch,
 gender, regional accent, etc.

 The reason that software speech generation has replaced hardware is
 that it is better.

 Full stop.

> Command line Linux, where hardware

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?


Liam,
1. Eric and I have been through these exchanges before...going back years,
2. He did not ask, simply said, in spite of my statement otherwise, that I 
could  use Linux..as if I do not know, living in this body, what I can or 
cannot use.
3. I need not demonstrate what only applies to myself, since I am not 
attempting to  claim that anyone else should accommodate their needs as I 
do.
As he lead with statements, not questions, has no medical or other 
background qualifying those statements, and is not directly involved in my 
care, I owe him nothing, having given my word about my needs.
as stated, in many ways adaptive tools are not a  feature, they are a part 
of how one uses their body.
He may as well have asked me to  change my legs if I were in a wheelchair. 
I have expressed frustration with his stance in the past, and he choose 
not to learn.
4. from a different  comment, I wonder if someone might work on a modern 
DOS browser if paid enough.
I do apologize to you,  as I dare say my tone, for someone unaware of 
prior list exchanges might seem harsh.  Eric, speaking personally, earned 
those  comments by not asking.

Why cannot you  use Linux instead?
 Never mind that this is a DOS list...making  his  stating  and 
assuming, as 
he often does, fortification for  my motivation.
The information about little braille use is a search away,  and has been 
the case for decades, so that 
assumption  is indeed stereotypical.

Kare



On Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Liam Proven wrote:


On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 at 23:50, Karen Lewellen  wrote:


As for your frankly disturbing stereotypes and generalizations about
adaptive technology and the individuals using it, well, I would hope you
would not tell someone to do themselves physical harm to satisfy your
stereotypes, something you just did to me.


This is unfair, undeserved and frankly rude.


I stated that there is no Linux distribution that I can use...


You have not demonstrated any actual knowledge of this, though.


you
suggest  I use  something that I already know  could  result in my
hospitalization..why exactly?


1. He did not suggest anything of the kind.

2. He did not know anything of the kind, because you have not told us
anything about what issues you may or may not have, so we have nothing
to go on and no way to decide what is or is not appropriate.

3. You are unfairly throwing serious accusations around, and you
should be ashamed of yourself.



I believe I know more about  my adaptive needs then yourself.


Yes, you do, but if you had told us anything, we could help. You did not.


Screen readers are used by many  populations,  for
learning disabilities for example, with less than 10% of the
sight loss  population reading braille..at all.


Oddly enough I have been working with screen reader users
professionally for over 15 years now.

You don't know about us, we don't know about you. The difference is we
are not making assumptions: you are.


You are no medical professional, and until you have personally made  use
of adaptive technology daily, for at least 30 years please do not risk
physical danger to another person as you have done here...


This is completely bogus. If you ask for info, you get info; you do
not get to complain if you do not like it.


Use Linux indeed, and have a Cesar?


I presume you mean a seizure.


Linux is out,  because the software  speech synthesis stimulates my
brain's dizzy centres at best, causing epileptic like reactions at minimum
and risking unconsciousness   with prolong exposure.


I have never met or even heard of anything like this in my decade and
a half of work experience with sensorily-impaired computer users,
including blind, deaf and deaf-blind users.

I am starting to doubt that you are being sincere and honest with us here.


In fact that
applies to most software speech for me...which is what Linux graphical
uses.


It is what all modern screen readers use, and I personally have used
them on Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, Android, iOS, and Symbian.

The reasons  are very simple and clear.

1. It is much cheaper.
2. It needs no hardware, no drivers, no connection, no support, nothing.
3. It is almost infinitely customisable in terms of speed, pitch,
gender, regional accent, etc.

The reason that software speech generation has replaced hardware is
that it is better.

Full stop.


   Command line Linux, where hardware speech is possible  for some, but
not me since what I use has no Linux driver,


Then you must do what my best friend did: adapt.

He had one particular voice that he was almost wedded to. He ran the
same voice on home and work computers, on phone, everywhere. To him,
computer text was this voice and this voice was text.

But about a decade ago he started to encounter problems, because it
was in a very old format for HAL that more modern versions of his
preferred screen reader, Dolphin Supernova, could not easily read. But
he found ways to import and translate it.

Later an open source

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

2021-06-24 Thread Liam Proven

On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 at 23:50, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>
> As for your frankly disturbing stereotypes and generalizations about
> adaptive technology and the individuals using it, well, I would hope you
> would not tell someone to do themselves physical harm to satisfy your
> stereotypes, something you just did to me.

This is unfair, undeserved and frankly rude.

> I stated that there is no Linux distribution that I can use...

You have not demonstrated any actual knowledge of this, though.

> you
> suggest  I use  something that I already know  could  result in my
> hospitalization..why exactly?

1. He did not suggest anything of the kind.

2. He did not know anything of the kind, because you have not told us
anything about what issues you may or may not have, so we have nothing
to go on and no way to decide what is or is not appropriate.

3. You are unfairly throwing serious accusations around, and you
should be ashamed of yourself.

> I believe I know more about  my adaptive needs then yourself.

Yes, you do, but if you had told us anything, we could help. You did not.

> Screen readers are used by many  populations,  for
> learning disabilities for example, with less than 10% of the
> sight loss  population reading braille..at all.

Oddly enough I have been working with screen reader users
professionally for over 15 years now.

You don't know about us, we don't know about you. The difference is we
are not making assumptions: you are.

> You are no medical professional, and until you have personally made  use
> of adaptive technology daily, for at least 30 years please do not risk
> physical danger to another person as you have done here...

This is completely bogus. If you ask for info, you get info; you do
not get to complain if you do not like it.

> Use Linux indeed, and have a Cesar?

I presume you mean a seizure.

> Linux is out,  because the software  speech synthesis stimulates my
> brain's dizzy centres at best, causing epileptic like reactions at minimum
> and risking unconsciousness   with prolong exposure.

I have never met or even heard of anything like this in my decade and
a half of work experience with sensorily-impaired computer users,
including blind, deaf and deaf-blind users.

I am starting to doubt that you are being sincere and honest with us here.

> In fact that
> applies to most software speech for me...which is what Linux graphical
> uses.

It is what all modern screen readers use, and I personally have used
them on Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, Android, iOS, and Symbian.

The reasons  are very simple and clear.

1. It is much cheaper.
2. It needs no hardware, no drivers, no connection, no support, nothing.
3. It is almost infinitely customisable in terms of speed, pitch,
gender, regional accent, etc.

The reason that software speech generation has replaced hardware is
that it is better.

Full stop.

>Command line Linux, where hardware speech is possible  for some, but
> not me since what I use has no Linux driver,

Then you must do what my best friend did: adapt.

He had one particular voice that he was almost wedded to. He ran the
same voice on home and work computers, on phone, everywhere. To him,
computer text was this voice and this voice was text.

But about a decade ago he started to encounter problems, because it
was in a very old format for HAL that more modern versions of his
preferred screen reader, Dolphin Supernova, could not easily read. But
he found ways to import and translate it.

Later an open source screenreader, NVDA, replaced Supernova for him,
and he brought the voice across again, but it did not support all the
facilities in Supernova, so he had to switch.

> still has  the same
> browser  limitations  outlined, browsers that have not been compiled to
> work with proprietary forms of JavaScript.

Javascript is not proprietary, but it is almost impossible to capture
its output. Graphical output in a graphical program needs very clever
and elaborate programming to intercept and read.

> Still, if Linux is such a grand solution, why cannot a  graphical
> installation be configured so it can  communicate with physical
> speech  hardware?

For the reasons I specified above.

> It is already using soundcards, though be it with what many consider
> dreadful results.

Actually, all my blind friends love modern screen readers and their
power and flexibility. And of course that, unlike in the days of JAWS
and HAL and Supernova, they don't need to pay as much as a 2nd
computer would cost to have built in speech.

Many have switched to Macs where a pretty good screen reader is built in.

Mind you, Apple do not know how to sell it. You can read about our
experiences with that over on my tech blog, from 11 years ago.

https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/18605.html

> If you actually lived this experience rather than suggesting risky behavior
> you might be aware of how poor even for those who lack physical  issues,
> the quality of Linux software speech is, for

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?

2021-06-24 Thread Liam Proven

On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 at 14:38, Eric Auer  wrote:
>
> This is not true for apps which use DOS extenders. Those
> can use several gigabytes of memory. There even are some
> proof of concept extenders which let you use more than
> 4 GB of RAM.

OK, good point. I hadn't considered that.

I still think that nobody is likely to even try to implement a modern
browser for DOS, though.
>
> Only some ancient PCMCIA WiFi cards have DOS drivers,
> but you can use an external bridge box to connect to
> your WiFi by LAN cable.

True. I have used such a solution on a RISC OS machine before now. It
brings additional power, complexity and accessibility issues, though.

-- 
Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053


___
Freedos-user mailing list
Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user

Re: [Freedos-user] tunein.com and freedos?