Re: [FRIAM] friam Winter POTLUCK

[thompnickson2]

Thanks for the Geographical correction.  

 

What’s it like to see the sun at the Zenith more or less every day.  
Occasionally we get the moon at the zenith and it makes the world seem perfect. 

 

N

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

  thompnicks...@gmail.com

  
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Gary Schiltz
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 5:02 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] friam Winter POTLUCK

 

Cardinal? The only cardinal I know has red feathers and a conical beak made for 
cracking seeds. And by the way, it's Ecuador, not Peru. In any case, in honor 
of Cardinal Standish, and as someone who lives two miles south of the equator, 
I will break out in song: "I come from the land down... er... well slightly, 
down under..."

 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 2:34 PM mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Dear Friammers,  

 

The Conclave is on schedule.  Still negotiating to get Cardinals Standish and 
Schiltz in from Australia and Peru (?) respectively.  We will, of course, have 
to elect a new FRIAM pope before we disband on Saturday.Which color smoke 
do we put up George’s chimney?  I never can remember.   Perhaps we should set 
up a computer in a side room so people can call in from the diaspora?   Renew 
old acquaintances.  

 

As the person who will be justifiably be to blame we end up like dogs fighting 
over Merle’s two loaves of fine bread, I am hoping that we can have a little 
chat tomorrow about who’s bringing what.  It’s those long tails on the binomial 
distribution I worry about.  Hard to eat a long tail. 

 

Nick 

 

 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

  thompnicks...@gmail.com

  
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/




 

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of George Duncan
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:49 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] friam Winter Party

 

Super, Jon

 

George Duncan

Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
georgeduncanart.com  

See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram

Land: (505) 983-6895  

Mobile: (505) 469-4671

 
My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and 
luminous chaos.

 


"Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may then 
be a valuable delusion."


>From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn. 


"It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest power." 
Joanna Macy.



 

 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:25 AM Jon Zingale mailto:jonzing...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Sarah and I will be there. I am looking

forward to meeting some of you in person.

 


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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] friam Winter POTLUCK

[Gary Schiltz]

Cardinal? The only cardinal I know has red feathers and a conical beak made
for cracking seeds. And by the way, it's Ecuador, not Peru. In any case, in
honor of Cardinal Standish, and as someone who lives two miles south of the
equator, I will break out in song: "I come from the land down... er... well
slightly, down under..."

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 2:34 PM  wrote:

> Dear Friammers,
>
>
>
> The Conclave is on schedule.  Still negotiating to get Cardinals Standish
> and Schiltz in from Australia and Peru (?) respectively.  We will, of
> course, have to elect a new FRIAM pope before we disband on Saturday.
>   Which color smoke do we put up George’s chimney?  I never can remember.
>  Perhaps we should set up a computer in a side room so people can call in
> from the diaspora?   Renew old acquaintances.
>
>
>
> As the person who will be justifiably be to blame we end up like dogs
> fighting over Merle’s two loaves of fine bread, I am hoping that we can
> have a little chat tomorrow about who’s bringing what.  It’s those long
> tails on the binomial distribution I worry about.  Hard to eat a long tail.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *George Duncan
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:49 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] friam Winter Party
>
>
>
> Super, Jon
>
>
>
> George Duncan
>
> Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
> georgeduncanart.com
>
> See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
>
> Land: (505) 983-6895
>
> Mobile: (505) 469-4671
>
>
> My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and
> luminous chaos.
>
>
> "Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may
> then be a valuable delusion."
>
> From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn.
>
> "It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest
> power." Joanna Macy.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:25 AM Jon Zingale  wrote:
>
> Sarah and I will be there. I am looking
>
> forward to meeting some of you in person.
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] friam Winter POTLUCK

[Russell Standish]

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 12:34:06PM -0700, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Friammers, 
> 
>  
> 
> The Conclave is on schedule.  Still negotiating to get Cardinals Standish and
> Schiltz in from Australia and Peru (?) respectively.  We will, of course, have
> to elect a new FRIAM pope before we disband on Saturday.    Which color smoke
> do we put up George’s chimney?  I never can remember.   Perhaps we should set
> up a computer in a side room so people can call in from the diaspora?   Renew
> old acquaintances. 

Thanks for thinking of me! As you might have gathered, I won't be
attending. I'm up to my ears in crocodiles (we don't have aligators in
Australia).

It would be nice to visit Santa Fe again at some point - I always told
my other half what a nice town it is, and she's been quite
envious. We're talking about switching to a peripatetic lifestyle once
my current work commitments dry up again, so maybe then...


-- 


Dr Russell StandishPhone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders hpco...@hpcoders.com.au
  http://www.hpcoders.com.au



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] friam Winter POTLUCK

[thompnickson2]

Dear Friammers,  

 

The Conclave is on schedule.  Still negotiating to get Cardinals Standish and 
Schiltz in from Australia and Peru (?) respectively.  We will, of course, have 
to elect a new FRIAM pope before we disband on Saturday.Which color smoke 
do we put up George’s chimney?  I never can remember.   Perhaps we should set 
up a computer in a side room so people can call in from the diaspora?   Renew 
old acquaintances.  

 

As the person who will be justifiably be to blame we end up like dogs fighting 
over Merle’s two loaves of fine bread, I am hoping that we can have a little 
chat tomorrow about who’s bringing what.  It’s those long tails on the binomial 
distribution I worry about.  Hard to eat a long tail. 

 

Nick 

 

 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

  thompnicks...@gmail.com

  
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/




 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of George Duncan
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:49 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] friam Winter Party

 

Super, Jon

 

George Duncan

Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
georgeduncanart.com  

See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram

Land: (505) 983-6895  

Mobile: (505) 469-4671

 
My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and 
luminous chaos.

 


"Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may then 
be a valuable delusion."


>From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn. 


"It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest power." 
Joanna Macy.



 

 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:25 AM Jon Zingale mailto:jonzing...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Sarah and I will be there. I am looking

forward to meeting some of you in person.

 


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove


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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] friam Winter Party

[George Duncan]

Super, Jon

George Duncan
Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
georgeduncanart.com
See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
Land: (505) 983-6895
Mobile: (505) 469-4671

My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and
luminous chaos.

"Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may
then be a valuable delusion."
>From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn.

"It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest
power." Joanna Macy.




On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 10:25 AM Jon Zingale  wrote:

> Sarah and I will be there. I am looking
> forward to meeting some of you in person.
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] is it possible that ...

[Marcus Daniels]

I’m a sucker for science shows about dogs.   My wife was watching one last 
night and I stepped-in to see a part of it.   The observation was that 
intensive breeding for or against sociality can occur with foxes within a few 
generations, like it has for dogs, and probably other animals too.   The odd 
thing is that while this is happening other properties come along for the ride 
too, like spots.   This suggests there could be a whole complex of correlated 
(epi)genetic and biochemical indicators for humans as well.

From: Friam  on behalf of Steven A Smith 

Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Date: Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 10:11 AM
To: "friam@redfish.com" 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] is it possible that ...




Damn!  I need that T-Shirt for my campaigning!

"a 3D foam of camouflaged steel traps waiting to lop off the fractal tendrils 
of our squidlike Leviathans"



On 2/13/20 8:13 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

I do wonder about Warren, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Buttigieg and their rhetoric 
trying to pin blame on the divider-in-chief rather than on those that voted for 
him.  It seems like crypto-partisanism to me.   They have to be different 
things to different people, that’s politics.   I would love to have an option, 
at least in ranked choice voting, who had the basic agenda to finish the 
culture war by any means necessary and to severely punish bad-faith actors as 
you describe.



FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] is it possible that ...

[Steven A Smith]

Damn!  I need that T-Shirt for my campaigning!

*/"a 3D foam of camouflaged steel traps waiting to lop off the fractal
tendrils of our squidlike Leviathans"
/*

*/
/*

> On 2/13/20 8:13 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> I do wonder about Warren, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Buttigieg and their 
>> rhetoric trying to pin blame on the divider-in-chief rather than on those 
>> that voted for him.  It seems like crypto-partisanism to me.   They have to 
>> be different things to different people, that’s politics.   I would love to 
>> have an option, at least in ranked choice voting, who had the basic agenda 
>> to finish the culture war by any means necessary and to severely punish 
>> bad-faith actors as you describe.
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] friam Winter Party

[Jon Zingale]

Sarah and I will be there. I am looking
forward to meeting some of you in person.

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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Re: [FRIAM] is it possible that ...

[Marcus Daniels]

I don’t think of Bloomberg as being disguised, though.   He’s a Romney-like 
option.   At this point, I’m less concerned about enabling Thiel-type people 
than I am about enabling frothing morons.   At least Nixon cared enough about 
true and false to adapt his lies around facts, rather than to deny the 
possibility of facts.   One EvilDoer™ can be contained.   50 million of them is 
a bigger problem.

From: Friam  on behalf of George Duncan 

Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Date: Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 8:42 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] is it possible that ...

I'll rank this way:

1. Bloomberg
2. Buttigieg
3. Klobuchar

George Duncan
Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
georgeduncanart.com
See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
Land: (505) 983-6895
Mobile: (505) 469-4671

My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and 
luminous chaos.

"Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may then 
be a valuable delusion."
From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn.

"It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest power." 
Joanna Macy.


On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 9:36 AM uǝlƃ ☣ 
mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Heh, good game, ranking as enablers. From most enabling to least, I'd go with:

1) Buttigieg
2) Klobuchar
3) Warren
4) Sanders

(3) and (4) are really a toss-up. Sanders seems light on specifics and long on 
rants. And the devil is always in the detail. So Warren might be less enabling 
than Sanders by using corral fences with fewer unfilled holes. But she seems 
very Trumpian in her confidence that any of her plans would survive contact 
with the battlefield. Sanders may well end up with better plans if he turns out 
to be more adaptive, relaxing *into* the landscape rather than trying to 
out-think it. In the end, I think it'll be easier for deeper thinking 
Evildoers(TM) like Thiel to game Warren than Sanders, which is why I'd rank her 
as more enabling than Sanders. Buttigieg's Moderate Rhetoric looks to me like a 
red meat buffet, waiting to be gobbled up by the Evildoers ... like so many 
octogenarian Casino-goers. If he's the nominee, here's hoping that deep down 
he's a 3D foam of camouflaged steel traps waiting to lop off the fractal 
tendrils of our squidlike Leviathans.

On 2/13/20 8:13 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> I do wonder about Warren, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Buttigieg and their 
> rhetoric trying to pin blame on the divider-in-chief rather than on those 
> that voted for him.  It seems like crypto-partisanism to me.   They have to 
> be different things to different people, that’s politics.   I would love to 
> have an option, at least in ranked choice voting, who had the basic agenda to 
> finish the culture war by any means necessary and to severely punish 
> bad-faith actors as you describe.


--
☣ uǝlƃ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] is it possible that ...

[George Duncan]

I'll rank this way:

1. Bloomberg
2. Buttigieg
3. Klobuchar

George Duncan
Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
georgeduncanart.com
See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
Land: (505) 983-6895
Mobile: (505) 469-4671

My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and
luminous chaos.

"Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may
then be a valuable delusion."
>From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn.

"It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest
power." Joanna Macy.




On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 9:36 AM uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:

> Heh, good game, ranking as enablers. From most enabling to least, I'd go
> with:
>
> 1) Buttigieg
> 2) Klobuchar
> 3) Warren
> 4) Sanders
>
> (3) and (4) are really a toss-up. Sanders seems light on specifics and
> long on rants. And the devil is always in the detail. So Warren might be
> less enabling than Sanders by using corral fences with fewer unfilled
> holes. But she seems very Trumpian in her confidence that any of her plans
> would survive contact with the battlefield. Sanders may well end up with
> better plans if he turns out to be more adaptive, relaxing *into* the
> landscape rather than trying to out-think it. In the end, I think it'll be
> easier for deeper thinking Evildoers(TM) like Thiel to game Warren than
> Sanders, which is why I'd rank her as more enabling than Sanders.
> Buttigieg's Moderate Rhetoric looks to me like a red meat buffet, waiting
> to be gobbled up by the Evildoers ... like so many octogenarian
> Casino-goers. If he's the nominee, here's hoping that deep down he's a 3D
> foam of camouflaged steel traps waiting to lop off the fractal tendrils of
> our squidlike Leviathans.
>
> On 2/13/20 8:13 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > I do wonder about Warren, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Buttigieg and their
> rhetoric trying to pin blame on the divider-in-chief rather than on those
> that voted for him.  It seems like crypto-partisanism to me.   They have to
> be different things to different people, that’s politics.   I would love to
> have an option, at least in ranked choice voting, who had the basic agenda
> to finish the culture war by any means necessary and to severely punish
> bad-faith actors as you describe.
>
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC 
> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] is it possible that ...

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Heh, good game, ranking as enablers. From most enabling to least, I'd go with:

1) Buttigieg
2) Klobuchar
3) Warren
4) Sanders

(3) and (4) are really a toss-up. Sanders seems light on specifics and long on 
rants. And the devil is always in the detail. So Warren might be less enabling 
than Sanders by using corral fences with fewer unfilled holes. But she seems 
very Trumpian in her confidence that any of her plans would survive contact 
with the battlefield. Sanders may well end up with better plans if he turns out 
to be more adaptive, relaxing *into* the landscape rather than trying to 
out-think it. In the end, I think it'll be easier for deeper thinking 
Evildoers(TM) like Thiel to game Warren than Sanders, which is why I'd rank her 
as more enabling than Sanders. Buttigieg's Moderate Rhetoric looks to me like a 
red meat buffet, waiting to be gobbled up by the Evildoers ... like so many 
octogenarian Casino-goers. If he's the nominee, here's hoping that deep down 
he's a 3D foam of camouflaged steel traps waiting to lop off the fractal 
tendrils of our squidlike Leviathans.

On 2/13/20 8:13 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> I do wonder about Warren, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Buttigieg and their 
> rhetoric trying to pin blame on the divider-in-chief rather than on those 
> that voted for him.  It seems like crypto-partisanism to me.   They have to 
> be different things to different people, that’s politics.   I would love to 
> have an option, at least in ranked choice voting, who had the basic agenda to 
> finish the culture war by any means necessary and to severely punish 
> bad-faith actors as you describe.


-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] is it possible that ...

[Marcus Daniels]

Glen writes:

<  Is being reasonable the right thing?  >

I do wonder about Warren, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Buttigieg and their rhetoric 
trying to pin blame on the divider-in-chief rather than on those that voted for 
him.  It seems like crypto-partisanism to me.   They have to be different 
things to different people, that’s politics.   I would love to have an option, 
at least in ranked choice voting, who had the basic agenda to finish the 
culture war by any means necessary and to severely punish bad-faith actors as 
you describe.

Marcus


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

[FRIAM] is it possible that ...

[uǝlƃ ☣]

... being reasonable is a bad thing?

Nick's entreatment here [1], this article [2], Dave's assurances here [3], rule 
#5 here [4], the hidden spoiler effect criticism of ranked-choice voting [5], 
counterintuitive irrationality from appeals to rationality like [6], [7] and 
[8], etc.

Appeals to "enlightenment" seem flawed. You can't have a reasonable discussion 
with a bad faith actor. I experienced this personally when my very friendly 
Christianity-on-his-sleeve neighbor would consistently engage me in 
conversation, and insist he felt love and had empathy for everyone. But when 
the topic came up of the billboards the Freedom from Religion foundation put up 
across Portland, he literally *spat* the word "atheist". The way he said the 
word and the context of the sentence in which he used it were dripping with 
hatred. I immediately stopped him and asked why he said it that way, with such 
hatred. He had no idea what I was talking about. After like 30 minutes more of 
talking about it, forcing him to use the word over and over again, telling him 
again and again that while I don't call myself that, a *lot* of my *friends* do 
call themselves that. And if he really hates atheists, then he also hates me. 
Etc. He finally admitted that maybe, deep down, he does hate atheists because 
God hates them. Therefore it's proper to hate them. I felt like I should take a 
shower after that conversation.

Is being reasonable the right thing? If it doesn't work with my neighbor, after 
hours in several open conversations, who *could* it work with? If Bitecofer is 
right, and people who claim to be independent might actually be 
crypto-partisans, people who wear the masks of "enlightenment" and 
"rationality" might actually be crypto-tribalists, then what's the point of 
being reasonable or "utilitarian". We should all hoist the Jolly Roger and 
begin slitting throats.

Maybe we need the obligatory "complex adaptive system" rhetoric to argue that 
the feedback loop in which reasonableness has a lower rate than, say, a human 
lifetime? The reasonableness we display over, if we're lucky, 80 years of life 
only shows *effect* after, say, 150 years ... or 300 years? All those stories 
of brilliant, sensitive people who fought the reasonableness fight over their 
lives and die insane or by their own hand might be victims of a cause-effect 
rate mismatch? Or perhaps there's a transfinite game theoretic explanation 
where populations of partisans co-evolve with populations of the swayable 
reasonable but the cycles are invisible to the history-impaired ... or the 
system-impaired (those who can't think in terms of collectives)?

I suppose my agnosticism reigns and I have a moral imperative to be reasonable 
when the use case calls for it and slit throats when the use case calls for 
that. But I definitely need better metrics to summon the right tactic at the 
right time.



[1] 
http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/Trumps-motives-not-judiciable-because-they-are-in-his-head-tp7594411p7594416.html

[2] New research may explain the weakness of centrism and the religious left
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/02/new-research-may-explain-the-weakness-of-centrism-and-the-religious-left/

[3] 
http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/Up-and-Out-vs-Down-and-in-tp7594452p7594453.html

[4] Autocracy: Rules for Survival
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting#Spoiler_effect

[6] https://heterodoxacademy.org/
[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Enlightenment
[8] https://alfanl.com/2017/03/03/the-owning-of-scott-aaronson/

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove