Re: FVWM: fvwm3? [on Wayland]

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2024 Sun, 4 Feb 01:14:21 +0100
 Martin Cermak scripsit:
> On  Sun  2024-02-04  09:51 , Stuart Longland wrote:
> [...]
> 
> IMHO for FVWM to survive, the FVWM community needs to focus on
> wayland.  And start from scratch...  I wish this happens.

How many here have grey beards? I hope "somebody" (without grey beard but with 
a lot of time) makes a sane X11 emulation layer. On the other hand, OpenBSD is 
alive and has it's own heavily patched Xorg called Xenocara and they most 
likely won't let that go. So maybe porting Xenocara to linux is a better way to 
go.

Nik

> 
> m.
> 
> 
> 
> 



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Re: FVWM: FvwmForm replaces FvwmPrompt (fvwm 2.0.41)

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Thu, 27 Aug 10:24:24 +0100
 Thomas Adam scripsit:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:07:56AM +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > None of them have FvwmPrompt in it, not these versions and not the other on 
> > the disks.
> > 
> > Looks like no version < 2.0.42 ever made it to the mirrors.
> 
> Depends where you look, I suppose.  :)
> 
> I found fvwm-2.0.40.tar.gz here:
> 
> http://debian.lth.se/pub/X11/fvwm/
> 
> fvwm-2.0.40.tar.gz1995-12-20 21:28466K
> 
> I downloaded it, messed about with gcc and managed to get it to compile.
> 
> FvwmPrompt is pretty simple -- just asks "Yes" or "No". I can see why FvwmForm
> replaced it.
> 
> Mystery solved, and I've more versions to add to the archive now.
> 
> As it's only 466K, I'm attaching it to this email for posterity.
> 
> -- Thomas
> 

Oh, this is a good find, thank you!

Nik


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Re: FVWM: FvwmForm replaces FvwmPrompt (fvwm 2.0.41)

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 26 Aug 19:37:03 +0100
 Thomas Adam scripsit:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm curious about a piece of Fvwm history.  In the git log for fvwm2, the
> initial revision (which is when Jason committed the Fvwm code to CVS), notes
> the following for Fvwm 2.0.41:
> 
>   Removed FvwmPrompt (use FvwmForm instead, since it's better anyways)
> 
> This was sometime in 1998, although I'm presuming 2.0.41 was before then.
> 
> Has anyone gpt any information about FvwmPrompt?  If it were a forerunner to
> FvwmForm I've not heard of it before.  I note from the old mailing list
> archives that it was a compiled module, but I can't find the code anywhere.
> 
> Dust off the cobwebs, folks!
> 
> I'm only asking as I have just committed a new binary to Fvwm3 called
> "FvwmPrompt", and hadn't realised it had existed already.  I thought I was
> being so clever with the choice of name as well... That'll teach me!  :)
> 
> -- Thomas
> 
> 

Just saw that archive.org has a SUSE from 1996:
https://archive.org/details/suse-june_1996_release_i386

It has the oldest version of FVWM on it I have ever worked with - actually, 
that was one of the versons on the first linux disk sets that got me into linux 
:)

-r--r--r-- 1 root root  59892 Jul 27  1993 
tsx-11.mit.edu/sources/usr.bin.X11/fvwm-0.91b.tar.gz

for the versions of fvwm in question:

-r--r--r-- 1 root root 324178 Okt 29  1994 
ftp.funet.fi/util/X11/contrib/fvwm-1.24n.tar.gz
-r--r--r-- 1 root root 329170 Mai  7  1996 
ftp.uni-erlangen.de/680x0/X11R6.1/fvwm95-2.0.41e.tar.gz
-r--r--r-- 1 root root805 Apr 18  1996 
sunsite.unc.edu-REST/X11/window-managers/fvwm-2.0.42.lsm
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  0 Jun  7  1996 
sunsite.unc.edu-REST/X11/window-managers/fvwm-2.0.42.tar.gz-is-in-pkg-fvwm_s
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 581985 Jun  4  1996 suse/zq1/fvwm_s.tgz

None of them have FvwmPrompt in it, not these versions and not the other on the 
disks.

Looks like no version < 2.0.42 ever made it to the mirrors.


Nik

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Re: FVWM: FvwmForm replaces FvwmPrompt (fvwm 2.0.41)

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 26 Aug 22:06:37 +0100
 Thomas Adam scripsit:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 09:19:40PM +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Some more history: 
> > 
> > sunsite.unc.edu-CD6/X11/window-managers/
> > fvwm-2.0.43.tar.gz  537 KB  12.07.9617:51:56 MESZ
> 
> Yes -- this is already catered for in what's in the git repositories.
> 
> > So 2.0.41 is somewhere between August 1995 and June 1996 - kind of a blind
> > spot in my archive. Still it might be in the shrinkwaped box of 1998 which I
> > dare not to open ...
> 
> What archive do you own?  Is this a private collection or something you've
> found on Google?
> 
> -- Thomas Adam
> 

Private collection. My own computer museum from days of adventure long gone by 
:)

Nik

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Re: FVWM: FvwmForm replaces FvwmPrompt (fvwm 2.0.41)

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 26 Aug 19:56:03 +0100
 Thomas Adam scripsit:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 08:43:45PM +0200, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> > Anno domini 2020 Wed, 26 Aug 19:37:03 +0100
> > 1998 ... could it be that the SuSE Linux of 1995 has it? I remember I used
> > fvwm95 around that time. I'll go to archive and check :)
> 
> That's not logical.  Fvwm95 was a fork.  See though:
> 
> https://www.fvwm.org/fvwm-ml/15306.html
> 
> Which takes us back to 1996...
> 
> -- Thomas
> 
> 

Yes, memory fades and is not that clear any more as it used to be ... ;)

Nik




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Re: FVWM: FvwmForm replaces FvwmPrompt (fvwm 2.0.41)

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 26 Aug 19:37:03 +0100
 Thomas Adam scripsit:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm curious about a piece of Fvwm history.  In the git log for fvwm2, the
> initial revision (which is when Jason committed the Fvwm code to CVS), notes
> the following for Fvwm 2.0.41:
> 
>   Removed FvwmPrompt (use FvwmForm instead, since it's better anyways)
> 
> This was sometime in 1998, although I'm presuming 2.0.41 was before then.
> 
> Has anyone gpt any information about FvwmPrompt?  If it were a forerunner to
> FvwmForm I've not heard of it before.  I note from the old mailing list
> archives that it was a compiled module, but I can't find the code anywhere.
> 
> Dust off the cobwebs, folks!
> 
> I'm only asking as I have just committed a new binary to Fvwm3 called
> "FvwmPrompt", and hadn't realised it had existed already.  I thought I was
> being so clever with the choice of name as well... That'll teach me!  :)
> 
> -- Thomas
> 
> 

Just checked:

SuSE 1995 has FVWM Version: 1.24r 
I have SuSE from 1998 and 2000 - but those two are still unopened originals :/

Nik






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Re: FVWM: FvwmForm replaces FvwmPrompt (fvwm 2.0.41)

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Wed, 26 Aug 19:37:03 +0100
 Thomas Adam scripsit:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm curious about a piece of Fvwm history.  In the git log for fvwm2, the
> initial revision (which is when Jason committed the Fvwm code to CVS), notes
> the following for Fvwm 2.0.41:
> 
>   Removed FvwmPrompt (use FvwmForm instead, since it's better anyways)
> 
> This was sometime in 1998, although I'm presuming 2.0.41 was before then.
> 
> Has anyone gpt any information about FvwmPrompt?  If it were a forerunner to
> FvwmForm I've not heard of it before.  I note from the old mailing list
> archives that it was a compiled module, but I can't find the code anywhere.
> 
> Dust off the cobwebs, folks!
> 
> I'm only asking as I have just committed a new binary to Fvwm3 called
> "FvwmPrompt", and hadn't realised it had existed already.  I thought I was
> being so clever with the choice of name as well... That'll teach me!  :)
> 
> -- Thomas
> 
> 

1998 ... could it be that the SuSE Linux of 1995 has it? I remember I used 
fvwm95 around that time. I'll go to archive and check :)

Nik




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Re: FVWM: Microsoft Teams

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Thu, 13 Aug 19:53:55 +0100
 Thomas Adam scripsit:
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 05:50:36PM +0100, Klaus Ethgen wrote:
> > So I endet more than one time now, typing password into teams where it
> > should never ever been.
> > 
> > I already have !FPFocusByFunction and !FPFocusByProgram set but it
> > doesn't work.
> 
> Teams might be implicitly using XSetInputFocus() although it's an Electron
> App, so it's unclear.  You could certainly use `xprop -spy` on the window.

If that's the case you can build a preloaded library that interceps the 
function call.

nik

> 
> Speaking of helping things, read this and double-check you're applying these
> things to Teams:
> 
> https://www.fvwm.org/Wiki/Tips/FocusStealing/
> 
> -- Thomas
> 
> 



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Re: FVWM: Changing mouse cursor size

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2020 Sun, 16 Feb 00:18:54 +
 Thomas Adam scripsit:
> Hi Dominik,
> 
> On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 12:57:20AM +0100, Dominik Vogt wrote:
> > Debian based distros seem to have some kind of scalable "cursor
> > themes".  Has anybody (i) tried to use them with fvwm and (ii)
> > managed to actually define a custom scaling factor without using
> > some config dialog from the distro?
> 
> I'm not too sure what sort of themes you're referring to, however on my
> laptop(s) which have 4K screens (which X11 hates until you mess about with all
> manner of DPI settings, and even then the various X widget libraries have no
> clue about scaling), I set the following in my ~/.Xdefaults file:
> 
> Xcursor.theme: cursor-theme
> Xcursor.size: 90

And you'll need to add these for GTK2 to ~/.gtkrc-2.0:

gtk-cursor-theme-name="cursor-theme"
gtk-cursor-theme-size=90

> 
> Presumably, the 'Xcursor.size' is what you're after?
> 
> Kindly,
> Thomas
> 
> 



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FVWM: Question on "Maximize"

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Hi!

Is there a differnce between a window, that was maximized using "Maximize 100 
100" and a window that is maximized by "Move 0 0, Resize $[vp.width] 
$[vp.height]" ?

If there is a difference, how do I pass that "Maximised"-flag to a shell 
script? I assume that - while it is working - this is not the best way to do so:

+ I ThisWindow (!Maximized) PipeRead ~/a/shell/script not_maximized 
+ I ThisWindow (Maximized)  PipeRead ~/a/shell/script maximized 

Nik




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Re: FVWM: Session management.

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Sonntag, 1. Oktober 2017 schrieb Didier Spaier:
> Hello,
> 
> I like very much FVWM, especially the ability it gives the user to
> easily manage individually a big number of windows.
> 
> But I would like that the users of the Slint Linux distribution that
> I maintain be able to save and restore their sessions.
> 
> Seeing in the man page:
> 
> SESSION MANAGEMENT
>  Fvwm supports session management according to the X Session Management
>  Protocol.  It saves and restores window position, size, stacking order,
>  desk, stickiness, shadiness, maximizedness, iconifiedness for all
>  windows.  Furthermore, some global state is saved.
> 
> and the associated Session Management Commands, I understand that in the
> most recent version at least, (2.6.7) these features are provided only
> in association with an external session manager.
> 
> Is this correct or do I miss something?
> 
> This is an issue for Slint that ships FVWM standalone (with lxpanel) and
> also inside a LXDE desktop, because:
> 1) lxsession, component of LXDE is not able to manage sessions despite
> its name, and the less "light" session managers that I am aware of are
> tightly associated  with a desktop that we don't ship.
> 2) I wish that users have the choice to use FVWM in a full desktop as
> well as standalone.
> 
> So my dream would be that FVWM act as its own session manager, as does
> WindowMaker. As a reminder, even when used standalone it the latter can
> manage its own sessions (example of saved session attached).
> 
> Or maybe I miss something and that's already possible also with FVWM?
> 
> Also, as a fallback are you aware of a an external window manager able
> to cooperate with FVWM and having very few dependencies?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Didier
> 

As far as I have experienced, most "modern" application that use GNOME or KDE 
framework do not support  X Session Management despite their window positions. 
Anything more sofisticated does not work, GNOME applications do not support 
KDEs session managemant and vice versa. "konsole" from KDE does not resore its 
tabs under GNOME, "terminator" does not resore its split screen and tabs under 
KDE or GNOME ... As far as I have experienced session management, it's quite 
broken today.

Nik



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Re: FVWM: Website

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Sonntag, 10. Juli 2016 schrieb Dan Espen:
> Thomas Adam  writes:
> 
> > On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 10:39:02PM +0100, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
> >> Just a quick note regarding the current website: The basic design is nice,
> >> but the white border gives me a headache when trying to read any of the
> >> actual text. Some desktop image (scaled or tiled) would likely be a big
> >> improvement, but so would a darker solid color.
> >
> > That's rather too vague; can you be a little more specific about your issue,
> > please?
> 
> he's complaining that the web site looks like the user
> has set the root window to white.
> 
> I didn't notice before, but I agree, it's not pleasant
> to look at.  I wonder what would make a better background,
> a gradient or an image.
> 

I'd suggest to make it plain black, but anything darker than #003c3c will do.

Nik


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Re: FVWM: Forums and Wiki need new maintainers/homes

[Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Samstag, 7. September 2013 schrieb Dan Espen:
 James Griffin j...@kontrol.kode5.net writes:
  !-- On Fri  6.Sep'13 at 20:11:35 BST, Jaimos F Skriletz
  (jai...@diamond.boisestate.edu), wrote:
 
  The thing that seems most worrying is we'll have so few people to ask
  questions too on the mailing list and forum. Thomas and Dan seem to be
  the only people who answer back to email and such.

 I don't visit the forum so I can't answer questions there.
 There are others on the mailing list that answer questions.
 I don't know what goes on with the forum.


The pitty with the forum is that it does not allow images. Otherwise it's a 
good source of ideas/configuration to get you started.

Nik


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Tel.: +43 650 82 11 724
email: off...@klepp.biz

Re: FVWM: Using fvwm as a lock-down kiosk

[Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

 Has anyone here already done such a thing? I'm interested in knowing
 how far this can be taken and if fvwm is a practical choice for this.

I did. It's quite straight-forward: replace the menues, mouse bindings and key 
bindings to do nothing. Use FvwmButtons as an application launcher or run 
just one application by default (your choice). It's a good idea to place a 
supervisor in the backgound, that kills all applications but the ones you 
want to be run.

Nik

Re: FVWM: GSoC 2012: Project ideas

[Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Donnerstag, 23. Februar 2012 schrieb msib...@crosswire.com:
 A scratch rewrite in C++, using WxWidgets and embedding the
 configuration elements in sqlite, killing configuration files for good
 and ever. There is a point at which you are doing yourself a favor by
 shooting the horse instead of feeding it.

 Not trying to piss anyone off. IMHO, I'm just stating the obvious. There
 is more holding FVWM back than what can be fixed with debugging.

There are very good reasons for using plain text files. These reasons are so 
good, that every programmer uses plain textfiles for his sourcecode (ok, 
there was once an IDE from a big big vendor ... but that thing died)

Despite, I cannot remember that the windows registry database was a very 
clever design decision.

Nik

Re: FVWM: Command-line tool for listing windows?

[Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Montag, 30. Januar 2012 schrieb Chris Siebenmann:
  Does anyone know if there exists a good command line tool for listing
 either the window IDs or the window names of all windows of a specific
 class (or better yet, set of classes)? Or is this something that's
 better done with an fvwm module written in Perl with fvwm-perllib[*]?

  Thanks in advance.

   - cks
 [*: it's pretty easy to write a module to do this, but I'd prefer to
 have a command line tool that I can hook into other scripts; my
 shell scripting is better than my Perl.]


You could look at 
xwininfo -root -tree 



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Tel.: +43 650 82 11 724
email: off...@klepp.biz

Re: FVWM: Thank you for 2.6!

[Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Am Mittwoch, 20. April 2011 schrieb Thomas Adam:
 On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 02:17:40PM -0700, Jason Timrod wrote:
  Hi,
 
  Just wanted to say a big thank you to the people who released 2.6, who
  was that? i think an interview would be interesting!

 An interview?  Hmm.  I hastily threw a bunch of answers to someone who's
 going to be putting something on LWN, but much beyond that, what benefit
 would an interview bring?

 Didn't this come up a few months ago?

  Does fvwn accept donations or can users show their appreciation somehow?

 No, although more teddy bears are welcome.  :P

 -- Thomas Adam

Here you are ...


 / .- ,'   `. -. \
 \ ` /`' \ ' /
  `-/   'a___a`   \-'
|   ,'(_)`.   |
\  ( ._|_. )  /
 \  `.___,'  /
.-`._ _,'-.
  ,'  ,' `---' `.  `.
 /   / : \   \
   ,'   /  :  \   `.
 ,' |  :  | `.
| ,'|  :  |`. |
`.__,' .-\ : /-. `.__,'
  /   `.   :   ,'   \
   .-.,'  `._:_,'  `.,-.
  / ,-. ` ) ( ' ,-. \
 ( (   `.   ,'   `.   ,'   ) )
  \ \\   _,'   `._   / hjw/ /
   `.`._,'  / \  `._,','
 `.__.-'   `-.__,'

Re: FVWM 2.6.0 and 2.7.0 tarballs in pub/incoming/fvwm

[Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

That's fine :-)

Nik

Am Freitag, 15. April 2011 schrieb Thomas Adam:
 Jason,

 Please find in pub/incoming/fvwm on the FTP server *four* tarballs.

 * Two sets of tar.gz/bz2 files for 2.6.0
 * Two sets of tar.gz/bz2 files for 2.7.0

 You don't necessarily need to mail out an announcement for 2.7.0 if you
 don't want to, I only version bumped to a new unstable version so that it
 wasn't lagging behind 2.6.0 being released.  Both these tarballs contain
 the same code at this point anyway.

 Please find the docs/ANNOUNCE file in the 2.6.0 tarballs as the release
 notes which you may mail out.

 Much appreciated.  Any questions let me know.

 Otherwise, that's it, guys.  2.6.0 is *out*.  :)

 -- Thomas Adam

Re: FVWM: FVWM Forum

[Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Ok, I volunteer. What's the system setup?

Nik



Am Freitag, 2. Juli 2010 schrieb Thomas Adam:
 Hi --

 On 2 July 2010 09:13, Nikolaus Klepp off...@klepp.biz wrote:
  This is not directly a FVWM related question, but would it be possible to
  restore the fvwm forum? I find myself frequently redirected to
  fvwm.lair.be - which is down for ages.

 www.fvwmforums.org

 Until someone who has a clue about PhpBB (which isn't me) volunteers
 to help me get it up and running, then the forums are all but dead.

 Please search the mailing list archives for previous replies on this, from
 me.

 -- Thomas Adam