Re: AGP ATI 9800 Pro in a dual DA 533?
On 26/10/09 04:51, Bill Connelly billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: Under Leopard 10.5.8, will an ATI Radeon 9800Pro work ok in a DA Dual 533? Currently have a GeForce 4MX, which performs OK, minus hardware accelerated Core Image, but I have the 9800 in my QS and don't use it a lot now. The DA is being used daily, and am wondering if it can take the extra power drain and will function better. Yes Pete --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: HELP!!! Beige PowerMac G3
No No - I don't actually know what's in the G3 box because I still haven't had it running - which is why I decided to ask questions here. I finally got going on Mac last January with a 1.33 Mac Mini which freed me from the misery of Microsoft Virus Land. The G3 would be whatever the normal configuration was. My Mini is running OSX version 10.5.8 with 1GB DDR and sorry I made a mistake - it isn't 2.33 it's 1.33. Hardware Overview: Model Name: Mac mini Model Identifier: PowerMac10,2 Processor Name: PowerPC G4 (1.5) Processor Speed: 1.33 GHz Number Of CPUs: 1 L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB Memory: 1 GB Bus Speed:167 MHz Boot ROM Version: 4.9.4f1 Serial Number (system): YM5461GUTA8 Hardware UUID:--1000-8 On Oct 25, 10:26 pm, Richard Gerome onecoolka...@earthlink.net wrote: Keep it and get it going!!! I would take an old Apple over a brand new PC running any Windows OS... Am I reading this right? It's 2.33ghz processer??? Or is this the ram (mb)??? What does it stand for??? I don't know anything about the Mini??? What version of OS10 is it running??? In today's world Tiger would be the way to go, but you could get by with Panther or Jaguar with the right web browser and maxing out the memory!!! CoolKat -Original Message- From: Joss jossa...@gmail.com Sent: Oct 25, 2009 5:29 AM To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: HELP!!! Beige PowerMac G3 I've had this PowerMac G3 for several years unused because first I couldn't plug in the monitor and it was very difficult to find an adapter. Finally I succeeded and then discovered that the keyboard I had needed USB and the PowerMac had none, so I eventually got a card (which I still haven't installed). The unit has been basically stored through all these years because I was very busy working insane hours - and had being driven crazy by the nightmare of dealing with microsoft viruses on my pc - until I'd reconfigured it so many times that stress erased the part of my brain that permits me the choice of doing another microsoft reconfiguration. What a relief! Then I converted to LInux Ubuntu which helped tremendously to reduce the trauma of 24 years of coping with microsoft software... (after buying and playing with the first Sinclair, my first true computer world love affair was the Atari 1040 and then I switched to the Mac 512 etc but my business involvements required me to work in the PC environment which removed me from the human race for quite awhile - I became a robot manipulated by the machinations and mind control of microsoft. I'm ashamed and penitent but I admit it . I am a fugitive from the microsoft robot gang. (Movie soon to be released ...) Anyway in 2004 this orphaned G3 psychically reached into my heart (at a garage sale) and reset my robot heart into a human one which been in a pining for Macintosh coma since 1982. The paradigm shifting earth shattering experience that broke the hopelessness spell which had bound my spirit to the lord of the microsoft underworld which had instigated this miraculous turnaround was the sudden explosion of neurons in my brain by its invasion by the lightning bolt sentence it still works perfectly and is running OS10 server and also functions well as a desktop and the only reason we are parting with it is because we have upgraded to a newer model. I was in apple-mac love again. And so even though I couldn't plug it in and really get it running etc etc it kept the dream of reentering the World According To Apple alive in my abused psyche for another 5 years. Scene Change to the year 2009... my son got me a Mac Mini 2.33 and my life began again - 10 months ago. It was 7pm on a Sunday and outside my window delicate snowflakes gently floated and swirled magically with the odd gust of wind when... Well, you get the gist of it (it's all iln the movie) Reborn into the reNEWed Age of Mac with the arrival of my new (OLD mini Mac) my life has taken on new meaning and direction... I was too embarassed at having had this brick taking up space and gathering dust for five years to be able to just say: I'm trying to figure out if I should plug in the USB card and see if I can actually get this giant computer running. Can anyone tell me if there's anything worthwhile that can still be done with a G3 PowerMac that warrants my exerting any more brain cells and physical work to see if this machine actually runs, or whether I should just junk it. I'd really appreciate some clear understanding because each time I'm just about ready to let this dinosaur pass on to its well deserved reward... I hear something... that makes me think that maybe I can still do something with it. Please HELP!!! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5
Re: HELP!!! Beige PowerMac G3
It's interesting you say that about OS X because I can remember when I first got the (still unused G3) diehard Mac users who had done everything anyone can imagine with their G3 running OS9 absolutely did not want anything to do with OS10 and I actually thought I'd be much better off with OS9 thant OSX. Anyway that was many moons ago and it is another eon now in computer lifetimes. I can relate to those who want to drag MS with them - for two reasons. Word and Excel. The sophistication of MS Office - doesn't seem to have any true peer yet - at least not that I've found. Microsoft Office for Mac seemed (mind you I was only using it rarely back then on the Mac) to be the same as the version for PC back in the 90s but now it seems like each new incarnation of the MS Office version for Mac - seems to get worse rather than better. Of course I still am having a lot of difficulty getting used to Vista. But generally I can do a much better and faster job of formatting with Excel and Word than with Excel and Word on Mac and the Mac office versions (Pages and Numbers) are OK but nowhere near as easy to use as Excel and Word on PC. I'm using them but I'm finding them kind of sticky like OpenOffice which I used for awhile after I stopped using Microsoft on my home PC because of losing all my time with virus recovery sessions. Actually using Excel and Word for Mac I started to wonder if these versions actually are really Open Office. Almost as though MS is deliberately creating inferior versions of Excel and Word for their Mac versions. I haven't tried Powerpoint or Access for Mac - but I wonder. Fact is that if I get any contracts for clients needing work done in any of the MS software I'll have to revert to PC for those contracts because doing it on Mac is too slow because of the factors I mentioned above. It's too bad but it's what it is. Maybe there's something I just haven't figured out about Mac software - maybe I'm just missing something. I'm have very sophisticated formatting skills on PC and can do things that most people wouldn't even dream of trying - because of my path which started with the wordprocessors of the 70s and 80s - learned how to control the appearance of a page practically at the pixel level and those skills kept me focused differently on formatting than most people. I can't do on Mac what I can do on PC as a result. Which bothers me because generallly I prefer Mac on almost every level. I wish I could find a way to change that. On Oct 25, 9:51 am, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 5:29 AM, Joss jossa...@gmail.com wrote: I've had this PowerMac G3 for several years unused because first I couldn't plug in the monitor and it was very difficult to find an adapter. Finally I succeeded and then discovered that the keyboard I had needed USB and the PowerMac had none, so I eventually got a card (which I still haven't installed). The unit has been basically stored through all these years because I was very busy working insane hours - and had being driven crazy by the nightmare of dealing with microsoft viruses on my pc - until I'd reconfigured it so many times that stress erased the part of my brain that permits me the choice of doing another microsoft reconfiguration. What a relief! Then I converted to LInux Ubuntu which helped tremendously to reduce the trauma of 24 years of coping with microsoft software... (after buying and playing with the first Sinclair, my first true computer world love affair was the Atari 1040 and then I switched to the Mac 512 etc but my business involvements required me to work in the PC environment which removed me from the human race for quite awhile - I became a robot manipulated by the machinations and mind control of microsoft. I'm ashamed and penitent but I admit it . I am a fugitive from the microsoft robot gang. (Movie soon to be released ...) Wow, it has been a long time since I heard of one of those conversions. Mostly I heard them with users who started on Amigas. I suggest you troll your local Goodwill or Yahoo freecycle group or the swap list here on LEM. Look for a Mac ADB keyboard and mouse. These come in handy for setup and when or if the USB goes down. (explanation of ADB at;http://guides.macrumors.com/ADB) Setting up the USB should be a no brainer. More or less plug and play. Anyway in 2004 this orphaned G3 psychically reached into my heart (at a garage sale) and reset my robot heart into a human one which been in a pining for Macintosh coma since 1982. The paradigm shifting earth shattering experience that broke the hopelessness spell which had bound my spirit to the lord of the microsoft underworld which had instigated this miraculous turnaround was the sudden explosion of neurons in my brain by its invasion by the lightning bolt sentence it still works perfectly and is running OS10 server and also
Re: HELP!!! Beige PowerMac G3
Sorry I'm not sure if I replied to you correctly. It is not 2.33 - It's 1.33 and that's the Mini. The G3 is a different computer. My post was extremely long and probably confusing. I got the G3 years ago and have never had it running and I got a Mac Mini 1.33 last January and am very happy with it. My problem is that the G3 takes up quite a bit of space and I've been thinking of junking it but something in me keeps wondering if there might be something worthwhile I can do with it. And I still am curious to see if I can actually get it running. The people I got it from told me there was all sorts of great software on it but I can't remember what they said. For instance there might be something on it I can use for editing our old home movies. Just because it isn't up to 2009 Mac standards doesn't mean it's worthless and if there is ultra sophisticated and expensive (back then) software on it I might be able to get some good use out of it using software I can't afford for my newer Mac which is great for surfing and music and all the newer internet stuff the G3 probably won't be good for. On Oct 25, 10:26 pm, Richard Gerome onecoolka...@earthlink.net wrote: Keep it and get it going!!! I would take an old Apple over a brand new PC running any Windows OS... Am I reading this right? It's 2.33ghz processer??? Or is this the ram (mb)??? What does it stand for??? I don't know anything about the Mini??? What version of OS10 is it running??? In today's world Tiger would be the way to go, but you could get by with Panther or Jaguar with the right web browser and maxing out the memory!!! CoolKat -Original Message- From: Joss jossa...@gmail.com Sent: Oct 25, 2009 5:29 AM To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: HELP!!! Beige PowerMac G3 I've had this PowerMac G3 for several years unused because first I couldn't plug in the monitor and it was very difficult to find an adapter. Finally I succeeded and then discovered that the keyboard I had needed USB and the PowerMac had none, so I eventually got a card (which I still haven't installed). The unit has been basically stored through all these years because I was very busy working insane hours - and had being driven crazy by the nightmare of dealing with microsoft viruses on my pc - until I'd reconfigured it so many times that stress erased the part of my brain that permits me the choice of doing another microsoft reconfiguration. What a relief! Then I converted to LInux Ubuntu which helped tremendously to reduce the trauma of 24 years of coping with microsoft software... (after buying and playing with the first Sinclair, my first true computer world love affair was the Atari 1040 and then I switched to the Mac 512 etc but my business involvements required me to work in the PC environment which removed me from the human race for quite awhile - I became a robot manipulated by the machinations and mind control of microsoft. I'm ashamed and penitent but I admit it . I am a fugitive from the microsoft robot gang. (Movie soon to be released ...) Anyway in 2004 this orphaned G3 psychically reached into my heart (at a garage sale) and reset my robot heart into a human one which been in a pining for Macintosh coma since 1982. The paradigm shifting earth shattering experience that broke the hopelessness spell which had bound my spirit to the lord of the microsoft underworld which had instigated this miraculous turnaround was the sudden explosion of neurons in my brain by its invasion by the lightning bolt sentence it still works perfectly and is running OS10 server and also functions well as a desktop and the only reason we are parting with it is because we have upgraded to a newer model. I was in apple-mac love again. And so even though I couldn't plug it in and really get it running etc etc it kept the dream of reentering the World According To Apple alive in my abused psyche for another 5 years. Scene Change to the year 2009... my son got me a Mac Mini 2.33 and my life began again - 10 months ago. It was 7pm on a Sunday and outside my window delicate snowflakes gently floated and swirled magically with the odd gust of wind when... Well, you get the gist of it (it's all iln the movie) Reborn into the reNEWed Age of Mac with the arrival of my new (OLD mini Mac) my life has taken on new meaning and direction... I was too embarassed at having had this brick taking up space and gathering dust for five years to be able to just say: I'm trying to figure out if I should plug in the USB card and see if I can actually get this giant computer running. Can anyone tell me if there's anything worthwhile that can still be done with a G3 PowerMac that warrants my exerting any more brain cells and physical work to see if this machine actually runs, or whether I should just junk it. I'd really appreciate some clear understanding because each time I'm just about ready to let this
Re: WAS; HELP!!! Beige PowerMac G3 now: freecycle
This is very interesting to learn about. I'll definitely check it out. On Oct 25, 10:09 am, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: There is nothing wrong with the LEM swap list. In fact I think it is a great resource and has served most of us well. Many of us also know about Goodwill stores and the opportunities there to help your communities by buying there or donating items. And many times old Macs can be found there for a song. But how many of you know of the Yahoo group Freecycle ? In fact here locally, a box containing an old Mac was given away there. 3 years ago I was given a huge Quadra server in working order from another freecycler. It was then passed on to a local collector who has his own Mac Museum. That magnificent beast would have otherwise been landfill ( quite as solid and load bearing as concrete rubble too !) but it has a proud home today because of freecycle. Freecycle is easy to find in Yahoo groups. You join a local group in your own area. Although adjacent areas may be joined also. But the group I am in covers a bigger metropolitan area so in posts I must narrow down the search as I don't normally want to travel 50 miles unless the item is really needed. Other peripherals are found on freecycle also which keeps them from the trash too. Rules state that givers assure that the item is worth being picked up. and that it is in working OR REPAIRABLE condition. Wifi G cards are frequently seen there as well as printers and CRT monitors. Just a suggestion. Adrian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: HELP!!! Beige PowerMac G3
Thanks for all that information. Now I know that it was just as well I didn't get the keyboard plugged in yet. If I'd gone through all that I would have definitely given up by now and junked it. All the Configuration frustrations I went through with PCs and Microsoft baloney burnt out that part of me that used to be capable of enduring megahours of configuration hell. Just can't do that anymore. You've given me some food for thought. On Oct 25, 7:27 am, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: On Oct 25, 2009, at 4:29 AM, Joss wrote: Please HELP!!! The Beige PowerMac G3 is still useable, but probably a little too slow and too expensive to upgrade to make the effort worthwhile. It's one of the toughest, with a lot of small quirks related to power supply, voltage regulator, personality cards, video, ROMs, motherboard revisions, and all combinations thereof. Then, on top of this, there is the 1st 8GB partition limitation; the need to use XPostFacto to advance the OS beyond 10.2.8 to a more useable 10.4.11 or even 10.5.8; the cost of an upgraded CPU, video card, HD, and RAM to make this fast enough to a least play video smoothly. All in all, it's a great project Mac, but not a great everyday Mac. Any AGP PowerMac G4 will run circles around this old Mac. The cost of upgrading this will give you an expensive and slow Mac in comparison the what you might get in a newer model for the same money. I'm not sure where the sweet spot is right now for power speed vs. cost, but I suspect it may be up at the MDD (mirror drive door) G4 or even the Mini G4 or early G5? The other sweet spot is the Intel hackintosh Mac made from cheap PC components. I'd think a Beige would need a pretty good size HD, at least 512MB RAM, a Radeon PCI card, and some other various hardware upgrades (USB 2, Firewire, CPU upgrade?) to work passably well. Your big problem is the keyboard. You MUST have an ADB keyboard to use this Mac because USB initializes too late for any keyboard commands to work, so this means as a USB keyboard only setup you'd have NO startup keyboard commands available, which means pretty much a disaster. ABD keyboards should be cheap or free, GET ONE before doing anything or else you'll be stuck in a terrible bind. If you have 256MB you may be able to proceed with installing OS X, but like all OS X, more RAM is better, more HD space is better, faster video card and CPU is better. If you don't have these things, they cost money, and I think this money is better spent on a newer used Mac at this point in time. Good luck! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CPU swap questions
Silverhammer wrote: Hi all, I have a G4 Gigabit Ethernet dual 500 I'm looking to speed up for cheap. I found a PowerMac G4 800 MHz CPU from a working Quicksilver 2002. Questions: - Will this cpu work in the GigEthernet? and - Will it be faster, or would the GigE be faster because it has 2 processors? also - if it will work is faster, any special tools/supplies/skills needed for the swap? Question 1: Will it work? Yes it will, but it would require some modifications for the extra 12 volt line that powers a QS CPU card, and one for the motherboard/case (the location of the CPU card on machines previous to the digital audio are in a location that makes using a newer CPU card an interesting proposition) Question 2: Will it be faster? It will, kind of. You are looking at two different types of performance. If you do multiple things at once or runs programs that can deal with multiple CPU's/threads, the dual /might/ be faster. If you primarly use programs that do not make use of multiple CPU's/threads, the QS CPU /might/ be marginally faster. I say /might/ for two reasons: One, early QS CPU's did not have any L3 cache. This is a huge performance hit. Two, the QS runs the CPU with a memory bus speed of 133 MHz, same with a DA. Your machine predates the DA, which means that it runs the memory bus at 100 MHz. This affects the CPU because that bus is one of two things that directly affect the speed of the CPU (memory bus AKA the front side bus and the CPU multiplier). Your current machine runs 100 MHz memory and a 500 MHz CPU. Figure that is a multiplier of five. The QS CPU you are mentioning runs at 800 MHz. Divide that by 133 and you get just over 6 (6.01503 yadda). So assume a multiplier of 6 and that CPU, assuming that you are able to modify the case, potentially board, and power lines, would run at about 600 MHz. Yes, the CPU multiplier can be changed, but it requires some steady hands and the ability to work with surface mount electronics. Not for the faint of heart. Question 3: Any special skills? Well, I would think that if you understand the above, you already know the answer to this. :-) Search around using words like quicksilver and cpu, there are a lot of sites that have posts and pictures on this subject. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
RE: Sleep issue on G4 DA
One of the ones I tried was a non-Mac card ( unsure now as it is in my DA and I can't remember the brand - all I remember is that it has the Via chipset ) which works like a charm except for a sleep issue. Others I have fitted include the Belkin below which listed as Mac compatible and works 100% OK. Here is a list that I have uploaded before that I shamelessly ripped off from MacOSXHints Quote/ To get optimal results from a USB 2.0 PCI card to run in a Mac, get a card that has the NEC chipset. Via and Ali chipsets are problematic - mostly sleep related issues, and should be avoided. Some USB 2.0 cards that have the NEC chipset are: Adaptec 3100LP BAFO BF-460 Belkin F5U220 GWC UC-160 IOGear GIC250U IOGear GIC251U Keyspan U2PCI-5 O'toLink U2-C2B O'toLink U2-C2A O'toLink U2-P20N O'toLink U2-P50 Ratoc PCIU5 USBWholesale UII-PCIP Quote\ With the fan, try here for an adapter. http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_infoproducts_id=608 Here is also a guide to the Molex power plug. Cheers, Stewie Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:59:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Sleep issue on G4 DA From: michaelgm717...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com On Oct 25, 8:15 pm, Stewie de Young stewies...@hotmail.com wrote: DOH - what am I talking about- Command - option P-R - in too much of a hurry ! The only sleep problems for any of my Macs was the USB2.0 card as I already stated and the only time I replaced a main fan was in my Sawtooth and that was from another so it went straight in. Odd, but I've heard of that problem before. Was the card listed as compatible with Mac? My G3 has a MacAlly PCI USB. I just ordered a PCI USB for the G4 too, it's an Iogear 5 port. If you still have the original fan you could cut the connector off and transplant it onto the new one. That would probably stop the fan problem but I am unsure of the display not waking from sleep. Forgot this one at first. Good question. I could, I think. Or could I replace the connectors of the new fan into the 3 pin of the new fan? And what about the third wire? (Yellow) Also, I'll try the old fan altogether again to see what will happen first. Thanks! -Mike _ Get Hotmail on your iPhone Find out how here http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=845706 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~--- attachment: Connettore.gif
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Hi Andreas, With the adapters/converters, to connect a SATA drive to a IDE/ATA (PATA) controller, booting from it is not the question. It will work, because the SATA drive is seen as a regular IDE/ATA drive by the hardware. With a SATA PCI card, that provides the system with a number of (additional) SATA ports - so you can connect (additional) SATA drives to your computer - the problem might be that using such connected drives with an operting system might be possible, but booting from it might not be possible. E.g. You need to boot from a (native supported) IDE drive, the driver (kext in the case of Mac OS X) for accessing the additional SATA drives through the SATA PCI expansion card are then loaded, and only then accessing these additional drives is possible. This *could* be the case for standard PC SATA cards -- they *might* be supported by Mac OS X, provided the SATA chip used is supported. Advantage: standard SATA PCI expansion cards for PCs are generally cheaper than those for Macs. But since a PC version doesn't include any Open Firmware stuff, booting from connected drives *cannot* be possible. But, I guess that most SATA PCI cards support boot, otherwise it doesn't make much sense for Macs anyway. I know most of what you explained, thank you. I wanted to get a SATA PCI-controller myself at first but soon found out that the ones supporting booting OSX were very expensive, I was just looking for big cheap drives as I have a big (and growing) movie collection. So therefore the controller card was out of the question. Also all my PCI-slots are full, I could pull a usb-controller but anyway ... The adapters are small and dirt cheap and they work. There is one jumper on them which has to be closed when the drive is in slave mode, otherwise it's plug and play. The speed advantage with SATA is only marginal with a plain vanilla PCI-controller in an 1.25Ghz MDD, also the drives are still too slow themselves IMHO. So I guess my advice is still the best if you just need more capacity with no boot problems for little money. If anybody needs an external disk, in case of Firewire or USB enclosures he should check if the drive with the adapter still fits inside the case and - very important - if the controller in the external case supports big disks. Most of them don't. Only then should one get an external SATA drive and would need a PCI- controller with an eSATA connector. Just my 2 ¢ ... Kind regards, Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Hi Andreas, With the adapters/converters, to connect a SATA drive to a IDE/ATA (PATA) controller, booting from it is not the question. It will work, because the SATA drive is seen as a regular IDE/ATA drive by the hardware. With a SATA PCI card, that provides the system with a number of (additional) SATA ports - so you can connect (additional) SATA drives to your computer - the problem might be that using such connected drives with an operting system might be possible, but booting from it might not be possible. E.g. You need to boot from a (native supported) IDE drive, the driver (kext in the case of Mac OS X) for accessing the additional SATA drives through the SATA PCI expansion card are then loaded, and only then accessing these additional drives is possible. This *could* be the case for standard PC SATA cards -- they *might* be supported by Mac OS X, provided the SATA chip used is supported. Advantage: standard SATA PCI expansion cards for PCs are generally cheaper than those for Macs. But since a PC version doesn't include any Open Firmware stuff, booting from connected drives *cannot* be possible. But, I guess that most SATA PCI cards support boot, otherwise it doesn't make much sense for Macs anyway. I know most of what you explained, thank you. I wanted to get a SATA PCI-controller myself at first but soon found out that the ones supporting booting OSX were very expensive, I was just looking for big cheap drives as I have a big (and growing) movie collection. So therefore the controller card was out of the question. Also all my PCI-slots are full, I could pull a usb-controller but anyway ... The adapters are small and dirt cheap and they work. There is one jumper on them which has to be closed when the drive is in slave mode, otherwise it's plug and play. The speed advantage with SATA is only marginal with a plain vanilla PCI-controller in an 1.25Ghz MDD, also the drives are still too slow themselves IMHO. So I guess my advice is still the best if you just need more capacity with no boot problems for little money. If anybody needs an external disk, in case of Firewire or USB enclosures he should check if the drive with the adapter still fits inside the case and - very important - if the controller in the external case supports big disks. Most of them don't. Only then should one get an external SATA drive and would need a PCI- controller with an eSATA connector. Just my 2 ¢ ... Kind regards, Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: IDE/ATA Hard drives
Hi Andreas, With the adapters/converters, to connect a SATA drive to a IDE/ATA (PATA) controller, booting from it is not the question. It will work, because the SATA drive is seen as a regular IDE/ATA drive by the hardware. With a SATA PCI card, that provides the system with a number of (additional) SATA ports - so you can connect (additional) SATA drives to your computer - the problem might be that using such connected drives with an operting system might be possible, but booting from it might not be possible. E.g. You need to boot from a (native supported) IDE drive, the driver (kext in the case of Mac OS X) for accessing the additional SATA drives through the SATA PCI expansion card are then loaded, and only then accessing these additional drives is possible. This *could* be the case for standard PC SATA cards -- they *might* be supported by Mac OS X, provided the SATA chip used is supported. Advantage: standard SATA PCI expansion cards for PCs are generally cheaper than those for Macs. But since a PC version doesn't include any Open Firmware stuff, booting from connected drives *cannot* be possible. But, I guess that most SATA PCI cards support boot, otherwise it doesn't make much sense for Macs anyway. I know most of what you explained, thank you. I wanted to get a SATA PCI-controller myself at first but soon found out that the ones supporting booting OSX were very expensive, I was just looking for big cheap drives as I have a big (and growing) movie collection. So therefore the controller card was out of the question. Also all my PCI-slots are full, I could pull a usb-controller but anyway ... The adapters are small and dirt cheap and they work. There is one jumper on them which has to be closed when the drive is in slave mode, otherwise it's plug and play. The speed advantage with SATA is only marginal with a plain vanilla PCI-controller in an 1.25Ghz MDD, also the drives are still too slow themselves IMHO. So I guess my advice is still the best if you just need more capacity with no boot problems for little money. If anybody needs an external disk, in case of Firewire or USB enclosures he should check if the drive with the adapter still fits inside the case and - very important - if the controller in the external case supports big disks. Most of them don't. Only then should one get an external SATA drive and would need a PCI- controller with an eSATA connector. Just my 2 ¢ ... Kind regards, Jörg. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CPU swap questions
On Oct 26, 5:59 am, Justin The Cynical cyni...@penguinness.org wrote: Silverhammer wrote: Hi all, I have a G4 Gigabit Ethernet dual 500 I'm looking to speed up for cheap. I found a PowerMac G4 800 MHz CPU from a working Quicksilver 2002. Questions: - Will this cpu work in the GigEthernet? and - Will it be faster, or would the GigE be faster because it has 2 processors? also - if it will work is faster, any special tools/supplies/skills needed for the swap? Question 1: Will it work? Yes it will, but it would require some modifications for the extra 12 volt line that powers a QS CPU card, and one for the motherboard/case (the location of the CPU card on machines previous to the digital audio are in a location that makes using a newer CPU card an interesting proposition) Question 2: Will it be faster? It will, kind of. You are looking at two different types of performance. If you do multiple things at once or runs programs that can deal with multiple CPU's/threads, the dual /might/ be faster. If you primarly use programs that do not make use of multiple CPU's/threads, the QS CPU /might/ be marginally faster. I say /might/ for two reasons: One, early QS CPU's did not have any L3 cache. This is a huge performance hit. Two, the QS runs the CPU with a memory bus speed of 133 MHz, same with a DA. Your machine predates the DA, which means that it runs the memory bus at 100 MHz. This affects the CPU because that bus is one of two things that directly affect the speed of the CPU (memory bus AKA the front side bus and the CPU multiplier). Your current machine runs 100 MHz memory and a 500 MHz CPU. Figure that is a multiplier of five. The QS CPU you are mentioning runs at 800 MHz. Divide that by 133 and you get just over 6 (6.01503 yadda). So assume a multiplier of 6 and that CPU, assuming that you are able to modify the case, potentially board, and power lines, would run at about 600 MHz. Yes, the CPU multiplier can be changed, but it requires some steady hands and the ability to work with surface mount electronics. Not for the faint of heart. Question 3: Any special skills? Well, I would think that if you understand the above, you already know the answer to this. :-) Search around using words like quicksilver and cpu, there are a lot of sites that have posts and pictures on this subject. ** Thanks to everyone for the thorough responses. I now have a new question . . . What is an inexpensive way to boost performance on the GigE. I've seen the aftermarket processor upgrades, but they're more $ than I want to spend ($200-7500. If I can find a working CPU pulled from another Mac, what would be a good choice? Thanks again, Silverhammer --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: CPU swap questions
On Oct 26, 2009, at 8:06 AM, Silverhammer wrote: I now have a new question . . . What is an inexpensive way to boost performance on the GigE. I've seen the aftermarket processor upgrades, but they're more $ than I want to spend ($200-7500. If I can find a working CPU pulled from another Mac, what would be a good choice? Only CPUs from Gig E and slower are straight drop ins. Keep an eye on the LEM Swap List. I just saw a 1 (or was it 1.4?) GHz aftermarket processor for $45 that was snapped up almost immediately. Similar deals crop up frequently. http://groups.google.com/group/lemswap?hl=en Len --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: AGP ATI 9800 Pro in a dual DA 533?
On 26/10/09 10:21, Stewie de Young stewies...@hotmail.com wrote: 9800s are supposed to only go in computers that have a 300W PSU or greater especially the 256mb cards as they draw considerably more power than older video cards like the standard Rage Pros. Whats in the DA - a 308W PSU ? Stewie I ran one in a Sawtooth with a 200w PS for a couple of years with no probs - depends on usage I guess - I say that because I don't actually know for definite why the 300w is a recommendation but the 9800 has variable power draw according to usage. Perhaps a bigger PS would be advisable for heavy 3d gaming or whatever - for general usage even 200w seems ok as long as the mac is not maxed out with other power drawing components. Pete --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: MDD Dual Boot Question
On Oct 25, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Mel wrote: As soon as you hear the memory test bong, hold down the option key until both drives come up on your desk top. There hsold be a spinning clock. After a while, it varies form aobut 25 seconds to over a minute on a DP 533 G4 DA I use, an arrow should replace the spinning clock. Click the arrow on the HD you wish to boot from and then click 'start.' You should boot from the HD you have selected. However when you shut down, your selection will not be permanent. Mel To make the selection permanent, go to 'System Preferences' / 'Startup Disk', and select there. Chuck D . --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Bruce bsugarb...@core.com wrote: From: Bruce bsugarb...@core.com Subject: MDD Dual Boot Question To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 6:33 PM Hello, I have an MDD with 2 hard drives (a 60gb and a 80gb). One is formatted with 10.4.11 Tiger. One is formatted with 10.5.8 Leopard. When I turn the MDD on, I would like to be presented with a choice of which hard drive to boot off of. How can I do this? Thank you, Bruce S. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: HELP!!! Beige PowerMac G3
Ok I kind of understand now what is going on. What is the proc speed of the G3??? And has far as all the software goes you might be able to copy it on to an iPod with a firewire and transfer it on to your Mini (if it has a firewire)??? My iPod was the only thing I could use to transfer Microsoft Office to all my computers... I use a G4 Titanium Powerbook for my everyday use and I use my old G3 Clamshell iBooks for ViaVoice, Photoshop (will only run in classic mode OS9.2.2) and my iPod with iTunes!!! If I am doing something on my Powerbook and need to print something and need to run Photoshop for it I use my G3's, I will transfer whatever from my G4 to my G3 and do the work I have to do on the G3's... I will either transfer it to my iPod or a flashdrive or on my SanDisk from my camara, depending on what it is and how big it is... I have this Dynex 12 in 1 box, I can plug in any kind of SanDisk, mini or reg SD cards etc etc etc using the USB port cable it came with... So I say get your G3 up and running see what it has as far as software and then decide if you want to keep it or get rid of it (if you get it running you can sell it)!!! I had to get the G4 running Tiger because I don't have a permanent place so I use this Sprint Wireless Card and it will only run on Tiger or higher my G3's are running Jaguar... I couldn't run Tiger on them because they run way too slow... I don't have a Tiger disc also and they wanted over $100 for the disc everywhere I looked and I found this G4 Powerbook 1G proc speed and 1G memory 100G HD running Tiger for $300!!! So depending on the proc speed of the G3 will tell you what OS you can run comfortably??? What I have learned is with Tiger I think you need on a G3 at least a proc speed over 500 but I would have to have over 700... A G4 would prob work best with 500??? Let me know how things go??? CoolKat -Original Message- From: Joss jossa...@gmail.com Sent: Oct 26, 2009 5:26 AM To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: HELP!!! Beige PowerMac G3 Sorry I'm not sure if I replied to you correctly. It is not 2.33 - It's 1.33 and that's the Mini. The G3 is a different computer. My post was extremely long and probably confusing. I got the G3 years ago and have never had it running and I got a Mac Mini 1.33 last January and am very happy with it. My problem is that the G3 takes up quite a bit of space and I've been thinking of junking it but something in me keeps wondering if there might be something worthwhile I can do with it. And I still am curious to see if I can actually get it running. The people I got it from told me there was all sorts of great software on it but I can't remember what they said. For instance there might be something on it I can use for editing our old home movies. Just because it isn't up to 2009 Mac standards doesn't mean it's worthless and if there is ultra sophisticated and expensive (back then) software on it I might be able to get some good use out of it using software I can't afford for my newer Mac which is great for surfing and music and all the newer internet stuff the G3 probably won't be good for. On Oct 25, 10:26 pm, Richard Gerome onecoolka...@earthlink.net wrote: Keep it and get it going!!! I would take an old Apple over a brand new PC running any Windows OS... Am I reading this right? It's 2.33ghz processer??? Or is this the ram (mb)??? What does it stand for??? I don't know anything about the Mini??? What version of OS10 is it running??? In today's world Tiger would be the way to go, but you could get by with Panther or Jaguar with the right web browser and maxing out the memory!!! CoolKat -Original Message- From: Joss jossa...@gmail.com Sent: Oct 25, 2009 5:29 AM To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: HELP!!! Beige PowerMac G3 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Western Digital
External Hard drive has the ability to use Firewire or USB 2. I was using the firewire connection to use as a start up disk if needed. I was told by this group that this would not work on my PPC G4 mac so I changed to the USB 2 cable and the disk shows only 32 gig of storage where the firewire shows 232 gigs. I have tried Disk Utilities on it to no avail. What is going on and how do I fix it? Norm --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: HELP!!! Beige PowerMac G3
On Oct 26, 2009, at 2:17 AM, Joss wrote: It's interesting you say that about OS X because I can remember when I first got the (still unused G3) diehard Mac users who had done everything anyone can imagine with their G3 running OS9 absolutely did not want anything to do with OS10 and I actually thought I'd be much better off with OS9 thant OSX. There was a determined core of resistance to OS X at first; however I ran my Beige very happily for years with OS X 10.2. It's supported right out of the box with the caveat that this is one of the 'must install OS X within first 8 Gigabytes' macs. This presented no problems, there is a simple hack to move the Users directory to another partition; I had no issues with space until I got a DVD burner, for which I needed 4 gigs of temp space to burn a disc. That lead me to my G4 GigEthernet, which is still going strong as my LR media machine hooked up to the big TV. Does more surfing than media service. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Western Digital
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Norm Rowe nrow...@roadrunner.com wrote: External Hard drive has the ability to use Firewire or USB 2. I was using the firewire connection to use as a start up disk if needed. I was told by this group that this would not work on my PPC G4 mac so I changed to the USB 2 cable and the disk shows only 32 gig of storage where the firewire shows 232 gigs. I have tried Disk Utilities on it to no avail. What is going on and how do I fix it. Never ran into something like that so all I have are questions. I can't come up with a scenario for how this could happen, so I'll be as interested as you to see what the others might suggest. Have you tried using both interfaces of this external drive on another system just to be sure that the problem is in fact in the external hard drive and not your G4 Mac? (Doesn't have to be a system you own, just one you could borrow to run a quicko sanity check test on.) Is it a Western Digital external drive or a Western Digital drive in a 3'rd party external enclosure? Just trying to understand the context. -irrational john --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Western Digital
Norm Rowe wrote: External Hard drive has the ability to use Firewire or USB 2. I was using the firewire connection to use as a start up disk if needed. I was told by this group that this would not work on my PPC G4 mac so I changed to the USB 2 cable and the disk shows only 32 gig of storage where the firewire shows 232 gigs. I have tried Disk Utilities on it to no avail. What is going on and how do I fix it? Norm FW will work on a G4, including boot up. I'd stick with that. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
RE: AGP ATI 9800 Pro in a dual DA 533?
So was that the 256mb version or the 128mb ? I have a friend who has a Sawtooth and the 128mb 9800 card and he has no problems with it and that is also with two PCI slots filled and three hard drives as well. He only used it for light use too - no video encoding or anything like that. Stewie Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:50:22 + Subject: Re: AGP ATI 9800 Pro in a dual DA 533? From: pdim...@btinternet.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com On 26/10/09 10:21, Stewie de Young stewies...@hotmail.com wrote: 9800s are supposed to only go in computers that have a 300W PSU or greater especially the 256mb cards as they draw considerably more power than older video cards like the standard Rage Pros. Whats in the DA - a 308W PSU ? Stewie I ran one in a Sawtooth with a 200w PS for a couple of years with no probs - depends on usage I guess - I say that because I don't actually know for definite why the 300w is a recommendation but the 9800 has variable power draw according to usage. Perhaps a bigger PS would be advisable for heavy 3d gaming or whatever - for general usage even 200w seems ok as long as the mac is not maxed out with other power drawing components. Pete _ Get Hotmail on your iPhone Find out how here http://windowslive.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=845706 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: MDD Dual Boot Question
I wonder if yaboot http://yaboot.ozlabs.org/ or grub would do what you want? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: MDD Dual Boot Question
Here's the manual for yaboot. http://penguinppc.org/bootloaders/yaboot/doc/yaboot-howto.shtml/index.en.shtml#contents On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Paul Kemner zkem...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if yaboot http://yaboot.ozlabs.org/ or grub would do what you want? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: AGP ATI 9800 Pro in a dual DA 533?
According to Mactracker, my QS 2002 Dual 1GHz and the Digital Audio have the same PCI / AGP (4x) Slots and nearly the same Maximum Wattage: QS is 360 DA is 338 So I think I'll give it a try ... will report back later. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
FW: Half time event
Amazing performance! Subject: Fwd: Half time event Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:30:13 -0400 From: don1...@aol.com THIS IS AWESOME Video: A Physical Education teacher, Lynn Kelley who founded the Kings Firecrackers 13 years ago, said the video of their performance at an Army vs. Navy game in February was posted to the team's Web site in early April, and has ignited national interest. http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1418565565?bctid=23207933001 _ Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow! http://microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/default-ga.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:102009 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: FW: Half time event
Amazing performance! Perhaps so, but we care about seeing this via the G3-5 mailing list why? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: FW: Half time event
Maybe because it's fun for a change? Wayne --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: AGP ATI 9800 Pro in a dual DA 533?
I went on and put it to work in my DA. According to Xbench, frames/sec is worse for the 9800 (58 for the Geforce, 42 for the 9800), but overall visual performance seems better ... also lose a point in overall Xbench score. Maybe attribute that to the 9800 taking care of OS X things better than the Geforce 4MX, things which may not be measured by Xbench. Hardware accelerated for the 9800, Software accelerated for the Geforce ... The Dual 533 is also probably a little bottleneck. Spinning Squares seemed surprisingly sluggish ... i can run multiple apps like Firefox, DVD Player and iTunes with not as much jumpy Dock movement as with the Geforce. A little disappointed with the Xbench results, though. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: FW: Half time event
Nannies please take care of this spam. On 10/26/09, Joe Dokes whaler...@hotmail.com wrote: Amazing performance! Subject: Fwd: Half time event Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:30:13 -0400 From: don1...@aol.com THIS IS AWESOME Video: A Physical Education teacher, Lynn Kelley who founded the Kings Firecrackers 13 years ago, said the video of their performance at an Army vs. Navy game in February was posted to the team's Web site in early April, and has ignited national interest. http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1418565565?bctid=23207933001 _ Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow! http://microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/default-ga.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:102009 -- Best Regards, John Musbach --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Half time event
Folks, This thread is closed. An honest miss post by a member. Please no more posts about this. Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com List Nanny G List --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Kernel panic? why?
Date: Sat, Oct 24 2009 7:11 pm From: Len Gerstel On Oct 24, 2009, at 7:28 PM, dorayme wrote: The thiotimoline bit I understand. Translated, you are possibly saying, it is logically impossible to do X. Not sure how to google for why an instruction that cannot be executed makes it impossible to design the OS to say as much. Lacking a good model, I guess. Is it like someone falls into a sound proof black hole suddenly and cannot message anything? It would require a pre computer to do this. An individual instruction might be fine, but combined with others can cause problems. You would need to have a checking processor, with its' own ram, video chip and everything else that your system has to check the consequences of the next instruction. In other words, a whole complete system to check this. To simplify it, compare it to the following instruction: Take 3 steps forward. By itself, perfectly executable and will not cause a problem. However, add in the fact that you are standing on the edge of a 200 meter cliff and looking over it and now there is a huge problem executing that instruction. So to test a software instruction, you need to see everything that is going on around it, not just the particular line of code. So in order to fully evaluate whether an instruction will cause a problem, you have to try it on the exact setup that it will be run on. This is one of the great advantages that Macs have over pcs. There is a finite number of Mac systems that software vendors need to test their software on. In the pc world, there are hundreds of options for each component, making it impossible for vendors to try every combination to make sure there are no conflicts. I think I mis-described quite what I was wanting to say. Nice explanation, Len, nevertheless. I should shut up about kernel panics as I have little experience with them. I very rarely get freezes of any kind on my QS running Tiger latest. I think I was more or less calling for a more user friendly *error message* canvassing general possibilities and suggesting rebooting and looking at logs or seeking advice etc from etc... Anyway, I bought 2 x 500MB RAM from OWC brand new for about $60 for my QS (cf to $250 in Australia!) and they came this morning so maybe I will get kernel panics at last. Can hardly wait! g -- dorayme --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
