Re: Plain text format
On Jul 20, 2010, at 6:55 PM, glen wrote: - Original Message From: James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com Heh... You're only a kid by my standards. Sometimes off topic, (officially), still can share knowledge or at the least some general information. I learn a lot of this list. I spent about thirty years in and out of the publishing biz in addition to process, (manufacturing), engineering, shipbuilding, aircraft structures, cinematography/film editing, a little stint in the army and even a year of technical support at Apple back in the 68xxx days just at the transition to the Power PC. Now, I'm a master slacker who is seldom up before 9am... Ahh, yes my goal at this time is to retire from my 35 year old printing and graphic arts business and become a 9 AM wake-up guy. My hat is off to you! Yep, my experience in DTP began right around 1985 with the advent of the Mac Plus in the graphic arts department of a printing company owned by three weekly newspapers using PageMaker 1.0. I quit a couple of years later to go on my own and bought a Mac II, Laser printer NT, PageMaker 2.0 etc for about $8K. By 1989, I was using PageMaker 3.0 which had autoflow, graphics wrap and boy that was the cat's meow! Still had a waxer for ultimate paste up plus photographs were still a task of the printer, (pre-press). I still have the last version of PageMaker installed on the Classic partition of my Gigabit and crank it up on occasion. My credentials are not the same as yours but I do have a BSE in Aerospace and worked in a shipyard building submarines, also did some Newsreel film work while in my 20's. Built 688 and 726 class submarine components, (structural), at Quonset Point RI in the late 1970's/very early 1980's. Ironically, the printshop mentioned above was located just outside of the shipyard... Love that HY-80, HY-100! Was a color printing tech in the photolab on Kwajalein in the late 1960's for an eighteen month contract. Filmed a documentary in Micronesia in 1969/70 with extensive underwater coverage. Returned to Kwajalein for several years as the senior cinematographer/film editor for documentary services. (ABM RD) My education is a Heinz 57 BS in Industrial Technology with minors in labor law and meteorology. Your are right about the Zapf Chancery craze, sorta like the Souvenir typeface (AKA fonts) obsession of the 1970-80's. Souvenir predated but became but became a part of the DTP revolution of fonts with the early Mac's. You can always spot the amateur work. Instead of using readable fonts for main text you'd be surprise what they would use. Give you vertigo at times! Widows, orphans etc, etc, etc... Just a little history or fonts from my experience. To keep this on topic I guess you can receive emails in Zapf or Souvenir if you really want to. ;-) --glen Naw... Courier is fine with me even though a sans serif font like Helvetica might be easier on the eyes. As an aside, back in the early days, the LaserWriters came with IIRC eight PostScript fonts which generally covered most DTP requirements. The closest to a display font was Zaph Chancery (always abused). Thankfully, a lot of freelancers were creating PostScript compatible fonts especially display which was a godsend when considering the extortion prices Adobe was getting. In fact a friend created a whole set of fonts with Fontographer back in the mid 1980's for a DTP application for the Amiga 1000. JT Refinance Now 3.7% FIXED $160,000 Mortgage for $547/mo. FREE. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4c46c2186be4f379be2st06duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Plain text format now nostalgia and a dozy QS
On 21/7/10 10:51, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com wrote: Still had a waxer for ultimate paste up plus photographs were still a task of the printer, (pre-press). That's me! Pre-press final film planner, platemaker, camera, scanner, Cromalin proofer et al extraordinaire. Boy were those early monotype and Linotype typesetting machines awesome - and the hand setters - compositors. Them were the days - when I were but a lad. Sad to see so many crafts dumbed down but progress marches on New thread - my QS is slow to recover from sleep - when I wake it with the keyboard it can take thirty seconds before the spinning ball disappears - preceded by a barely discernable HD sound. I have three ide drives in here - two on the main ide controller and one on the second controller with the optical drive (the optical is last on the cable). I seem to recall that mixing a HD and an optical on the same cable can be problematic but not exactly why. So before I start pulling the cables to isolate the drives does anyone have any experience of this? Pete -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G4 Power Mac M5183 up grades!!!
You’re welcome, Rich, that’s what the list is for. But you could have made it a little easier for people if you had posted the model correctly the first time. If that Mac is really a Digital Audio, I’m still wondering from where you got that M5183 spec? I can’t advise you on optical drives or video cards--I just don’t have enough experience. But about that harddisk: wouldn’t it be better to get her a new one, considering that it’ll be her system drive? Except for lots of WD drives, here’s an interesting ebay offer: 110562634993 (it’s ATA-133) Maybe other listers can comment what’s the importance of a drive’s interface: does the Digital Audio have ATA-66? Still, I guess it’s no harm putting in an ATA-100 or ATA-133 drive? And is my understanding correct that you can use larger-than-128MB drives without any tricks, as long as the partitions are all smaller than 128MB? RAM: I think www.lowendmac.com is a good place to find info and also links to the stuff you need. For example, I found this page through them: http://www.ramseeker.com/memory/Power_Mac_G4_(PC133)-512mb/ On 20 jul, 15:12, Richard Gerome onecoolka...@earthlink.net wrote: Cool Geke, Thanks for that info!!! I just got AGP PNY nVidia GeForce FX 5200 128 video card and an Airport Card for $32.00 off ebay, I am looking at a 2005 WD 160 7200rpm IDE 3.5 HD now for $45.00 total with the shipping! Is this HD too old (I heard the older ones failed)??? Also a Pioneer CD/DVD RW Burner Drive Writer DVR-118L for $40.00 total with the shipping too!!! Does all this sound like a good deal??? Thank You everyone for your input!!! I still have to find the memory yet... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Plain text format
On Jul 21, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jul 20, 2010, at 5:31 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Jul 20, 2010, at 5:14 PM, onelucent wrote: Yes, from an era, when economy in programming was a virtue. It still is a virtue with the ascendency of the iPhone, iPad, and other mobile platforms. Speaking of which, Apple donated the source code of MacPaint and the QuickDraw toolbox to the Computer Museum, who have made it available to all. The main source file for MacPaint is 157K; about 5000 lines of Pascal. http://www.computerhistory.org/highlights/macpaint/ Well worth the perusal, if only for a good example of how code *should* be written, clear, structured and understandable. There's a quote from Bill Atkinson in the article: [Bill] later said about software in general, It's an art form, like any other art form... I would spend time rewriting whole sections of code to make them more cleanly organized, more clear. I'm a firm believer that the best way to prevent bugs is to make it so that you can read through the code and understand exactly what it's doing… And maybe that was a little bit counter to what I ran into when I first came to Apple... If you want to get it smooth, you've got to rewrite it from scratch at least five times. Words of wisdom... The faster machines become along with huge amounts of RAM, the sloppier code gets. I remember my first computer, a Commodore 64 would run a full featured flight simulator with only 41K available RAM. sigh JT Natural Arthritis Cure Say goodbye arthritis drugs. Aches disappear with raisin remedy. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4c474a40a6d213c9dbbst01duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Plain text format
On Jul 21, 2010, at 12:32 PM, James Therrault wrote: The faster machines become along with huge amounts of RAM, the sloppier code gets. A common claim, but not really backed up by evidence... modern computers do a LOT more. Yes it lets people get away without hand-writing highly-optimized machine code for time-critical elements of a program under severe memory and cpu constraints, but on the other hand, stuff like Photoshop CS5's magic Remove Trotsky Content-aware fill tool is just not possible writing that kind of code. You NEED more code to do the things we ask our computers to do. I remember my first computer, a Commodore 64 would run a full featured flight simulator with only 41K available RAM. Really? Full Featured? Can it import DEM files for accurate terrain portrayal? 3D accurate city models, with textures so you can fly around the Empire State Building if you want? Did it let you define the flight envelope of the simulated plane? How accurate was the aerodynamic model? Did the FAA let you use it for certifiable training purposes (As it does for some modern flight sims?) Go run it, then go run X-plane on a modern system. You can set it up to race BD-5's (or F-22's, for that matter) through the Grand Canyon if you want...http://www.x-plane.com/ We often have a lot of nostalgia for the 'olden days' without a lot of regard for how amazingly far we've come. I had an opportunity to watch Pixar's Tin Toy again not too long ago. I remember being utterly blown away with how GOOD it looked when it first came out (and I wasn't the only one...it DID win a technical Oscar). I was more than a little shocked at how crude it looks today. There are scenes in it where the baby's clothes buckle into his body, and places where his legs fold unnaturally as he moves, and there's a distinct disconnect between the baby's movements and his actual locomotion along the floor in several places. ALL the surfaces have simple specular reflections, so everything looks like it's molded out of plastic. And this was done by the best pros in the business at the time. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G4 Power Mac M5183 up grades!!!
The M5183 is the Model# that is on the back of the tower, this is why someone on here said it was a Sawtooth... I am more up on the iBooks and Powerbooks this is my first experience with a Power Mac... She used to use this for her web designing but it got too out dated I guess, but she still loves the machine and doesn't want to part with it... When I told her I could probably upgrade it she got excited, she knows some people who still own them and they told her the same thing but when she went to a place that used to fix it for her they told her it wasn't worth the money to do it for her... I'm doing it for nothing if she pays for the parts... I looking into a new HD for her instead, the memory I know is cheap... You’re welcome, Rich, that’s what the list is for. But you could have made it a little easier for people if you had posted the model correctly the first time. If that Mac is really a Digital Audio, I’m still wondering from where you got that M5183 spec? I can’t advise you on optical drives or video cards--I just don’t have enough experience. But about that harddisk: wouldn’t it be better to get her a new one, considering that it’ll be her system drive? Except for lots of WD drives, here’s an interesting ebay offer: 110562634993 (it’s ATA-133) Maybe other listers can comment what’s the importance of a drive’s interface: does the Digital Audio have ATA-66? Still, I guess it’s no harm putting in an ATA-100 or ATA-133 drive? And is my understanding correct that you can use larger-than-128MB drives without any tricks, as long as the partitions are all smaller than 128MB? RAM: I think www.lowendmac.com is a good place to find info and also links to the stuff you need. For example, I found this page through them: http://www.ramseeker.com/memory/Power_Mac_G4_(PC133)-512mb/ -- Scars only tell us where we have been, they do not have to dictate where we are going... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Plain text format
On Jul 21, 2010, at 3:39 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Jul 21, 2010, at 12:32 PM, James Therrault wrote: The faster machines become along with huge amounts of RAM, the sloppier code gets. A common claim, but not really backed up by evidence... modern computers do a LOT more. Yes it lets people get away without hand- writing highly-optimized machine code for time-critical elements of a program under severe memory and cpu constraints, but on the other hand, stuff like Photoshop CS5's magic Remove Trotsky Content- aware fill tool is just not possible writing that kind of code. You NEED more code to do the things we ask our computers to do. I remember my first computer, a Commodore 64 would run a full featured flight simulator with only 41K available RAM. Really? Full Featured? Can it import DEM files for accurate terrain portrayal? 3D accurate city models, with textures so you can fly around the Empire State Building if you want? Did it let you define the flight envelope of the simulated plane? How accurate was the aerodynamic model? Did the FAA let you use it for certifiable training purposes (As it does for some modern flight sims?) Go run it, then go run X-plane on a modern system. You can set it up to race BD-5's (or F-22's, for that matter) through the Grand Canyon if you want...http://www.x-plane.com/ We often have a lot of nostalgia for the 'olden days' without a lot of regard for how amazingly far we've come. I had an opportunity to watch Pixar's Tin Toy again not too long ago. I remember being utterly blown away with how GOOD it looked when it first came out (and I wasn't the only one...it DID win a technical Oscar). I was more than a little shocked at how crude it looks today. There are scenes in it where the baby's clothes buckle into his body, and places where his legs fold unnaturally as he moves, and there's a distinct disconnect between the baby's movements and his actual locomotion along the floor in several places. ALL the surfaces have simple specular reflections, so everything looks like it's molded out of plastic. And this was done by the best pros in the business at the time. You're quibbling over apples 'n oranges. That little flight simulator on the C-64 if written today due to loose code. My neighbor, (recently retired), was in the programming biz for over thirty-five years and he relates that some of today's code (slopiness) is largely responsible for many of the ills we suffer in computerland. In fact, he is of the opinion that most of today's wiz kids wouldn't be able to equal the efficiency of that little C-64 program. Oh, and you could get a bunch of different scene layouts on 5 1/4 floppy disks. JT TODAY: iPads for $23.74? SPECIAL REPORT: iPads are being auctioned for an incredible 80% off! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4c477372ee20f36b902st06vuc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Yikes G4, Can The Computer Chime and still have a Bad CPU?
See, this is the thing, a processor will run UNDER-CLOCKED better than it will OVER-CLOCKED. If I have a bootable system with a g4-450 mhz. Putting a 500 mhz processor in there without changing the jumper settings will only tell the 500 mhz processor to run at 450. Much like it tells the 400 processor that is in there to run at 450. For grins, I put a known bad 300 mhz g3 processor in there with no jumper settings change and it booted to the blue screen before it dumped. I did get the chime and video. So I really suspect this chip is bad even though the guy swears it came from a running system. Well, I bought a keyboard and mouse (apple brand) 10 days ago on ebay. I have sent the guy mail telling him his usb keyboard and mouse hasn't gotten here yet. Hopefully it is in the mail and will get here in the next day or so and I can see if the chip will reset pram and enter into open firmware. I will feel a lot better about it if it can do that. I looked on apples site to see if there were any firmware patches for the Yikes G4. I saw none for a G4 PCI computer. They were all for sawtooth and the such. There weren't any firmware hinderances in there to stop a 500 mhz chip from running in the yikes that I know about. Looking at all the upgrade sites I don't see any Yikes patches to allow a faster processor to be put in. They all seem to be plug and play. So I dunno what I am going to tell this guy. Wait for the keyboard and get more information I suppose. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
