Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
On Jun 17, 2009, at 2:32 PM, Ralph Green wrote: Yes. I should have said 80 wire. The connectors are all 40 pin. I usually save the 40 pin cables for older systems. But, it is good to know that you can use them for any parallel ATA drive, in a pinch. I help people rebuild older systems pretty often. To tell if you have a 80 wire cable, you can count the wires. Or, a shortcut is to look at one end. Count how many wires are in the width of one column of 2 pins. Look at the connector that plugs into the drive as 20 columns by 2 rows. If there are 2 wires for every row of 2 pins, it is a 40 wire cable. If there are 4 wires for every row of 2 pins, it is a 80 wire cable. Does that make sense? You could also hold the cables up against a cable you know is 40 or 80 wires. The 80 wire cables are noticeably different. Ralph...thanks a lot for that and this does make a lot of sense. Now I'd take the weekend to go through my patch, find the 80 wires and use them. This is great to know. As you know, I'd always thought an IDE cable, is an IDE cable, is anThanks! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
Howdy, Use any flat IDE cable you want. Use 80 pin cables if you want speeds greater than 33 megabytes per second. Use CS if you are prepared to have your computer guess which drive is which and whether you have the right cable. Set the master/slave settings if you want to know it will work. The master/slave settings do have to be set right, so some companies and people don't want to do it. Some drives have separate settings for Master with slave and Master without slave(aka Single). I am not saying you won't get it to work any other way. But, follow those simple rules and it will work. Good luck, Ralph On Mon, 2009-06-15 at 15:18 -0400, insightinmind wrote: Just for the main hard drive connection: So it is NOT ok to use the UltraATA cable (Space Shuttle-D, Cd Pb Free, 80wire/40pin) supplied in a Retail Box Kit along with a Seagate UltraATA drive as the cable off the Apple mobo, because of a HP/ Compaq patented method of interrogating the drive at Startup, in my Quicksilver 2002 Dual 1GHz? I need to put back the short one with the slit (hence Cable Select cable), and set my Seagate to Master, because ... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
On Jun 17, 2009, at 4:11 AM, Ralph Green wrote: Use any flat IDE cable you want. Use 80 pin cables if you want speeds greater than 33 megabytes per second. I thought an IDE cable is an IDE cable is anso when you say to use 80 pin IDE for increased speed, what do you mean? Please expand on this as I'd like to go through my box of cables and pick out all the 80 pins and use them. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
On Jun 17, 2009, at 8:44 AM, Nestamicky wrote: On Jun 17, 2009, at 4:11 AM, Ralph Green wrote: Use any flat IDE cable you want. Use 80 pin cables if you want speeds greater than 33 megabytes per second. I thought an IDE cable is an IDE cable is anso when you say to use 80 pin IDE for increased speed, what do you mean? Please expand on this as I'd like to go through my box of cables and pick out all the 80 pins and use them. It is not 80 pin, it is 80 wires. The cables still have the standard 40 pins. The newer ATA specs (starting with Ultra DMA/33) call for 80 wires to cut down on crosstalk between the wires. The extra wires are ground wires not connected to any pins and are in between each signal wire. Most modern drives in their specs say they require 80 wire cables to operate at full speed. You can still use 40 pin, but your throughput MAY not be at the drives maximum. HTH, Len --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:11 AM, Ralph Green wrote: Use any flat IDE cable you want. Only if you want to force the lowest possible performance, as without the additional information available using the technique previously mentioned, the 'puter has no other choice but to force basic mode (16.67 MB/sec), and all models from the BW on make the provision for enhanced mode (33 MB/sec, or faster). Use 80 pin cables if you want speeds greater than 33 megabytes per second. That is but one (and only one) reason to use 80-wire/40-pin cables. Another is most modern optical drives, although these never use faster than 33 MB/sec, these require 80-wire/40-pin cables for more than 8X writing. Although the OEM packaging never says so, the retail packaging certainly does: in order for the drive to operate faster than 8X an 80-wire/40-pin cable is required, even if the host bus is 16.67 MB/sec. An 80-wire/40-pin cable may also be required for some of the improved burning strategies (always write, etcetera). Bottom line: to ensure the highest percentage of good burns, and, conversely, the lowest percentage of coasters, an 80-wire/40-pin cable is required. All desktop Macs from BW on use an 80-wire/40-pin cable for both ATA buses, whether those buses are ATA-2, ATA-3 or ATA-4 (and higher ATA modes on the MDD). Only the Beige used a 40-wire/40-pin cable, and that model series was limited to 16.67 MB/sec, and two masters if Revision 1, and two masters and two slaves if Revision 2 or 3. (The Revision 2 or 3 models could accept slaves on the optical bus, but the HD bus was never provided with a slave connector on any revision, for the reason that the slave drive would be located more than 18 inches from the host connector, although that limit could be exceeded with specially designed and tested cables). Use CS if you are prepared to have your computer guess which drive is which and whether you have the right cable. There is no guessing involved. The drive which is connected to the black connector is master; the drive which is connected to the gray connector is slave. But, as master and slave are actually peers, it doesn't matter which drive is master and which drive is slave, just as long as the following rule is met: if there is only one drive on a bus, it must be master and it must be at the end of the cable. The black connector is on the end of the cable. Incidentally, the black, gray and blue connectors are not identical. There are pins missing (open) or are present and are grounded (closed) in certain strategic positions. In this way, the host may determine if the cable is 40-wire/40-pin or is 80-wire/40-pin, or is not present at all, and also the maximum operating speed of each connected device. 80-wire/40-pin cables allow for asymmetric operation (16.67 MB/sec for one device, and 33 MB/sec or faster for the other device). Set the master/slave settings if you want to know it will work. Well, yeah, but all of the above must be met, too. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
On Jun 17, 10:37 am, PeterH peterh5...@rattlebrain.com wrote: On Jun 17, 2009, at 3:11 AM, Ralph Green wrote: Use CS if you are prepared to have your computer guess which drive is which and whether you have the right cable. There is no guessing involved. The drive which is connected to the black connector is master; the drive which is connected to the gray connector is slave. Yes. Convenience was the main reason I preferred using CS back towards the end of the days when I was primarily using PATA drives. Having to muck around with the master/slave jumpers every time I moved a drive was extremely tedious annoying. Typically I would *always* drop a jumper while trying to change things around. At this point in my life my eyes don't function well enough to make finding a jumper buried in a carpet in bad lighting a minor glitch. But whatever works ... and to each their own ... -irrational john --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
The problem I was having may have been due to a nearby PCI card crimping the Apple supplied short mobo ATA cable: I had also mounted my drive in the top position of the QSs piggyback sled, for better air flow. Of course when trying to debug a sole drive dropping off the desktop, you can go different routes: UltraATA (or UltraDMA) drives not being supported as Cable Select off a Cable Select setup in a QS 2002, according to an Apple manual, was one of the places. Someone stated (Peter, I believe, if I understood correctly) Apple, historically, uses an HP/Compaq patented Startup protocol that requires the Cable Select (slitted) off the mobo ATA cable at Startup, then, depending on the machine and particular hard drive specs, uses whatever the drive is set to (CS/Single/Master/Slave). (Note: Maxtors others, are sometimes different from Seagates). Several links in a chain of IDE channel events, any one of which MAY break the desired result of a good connection being established AND then maintained. As recently suggested, to be on the safe side, I decided upon returning to using the un-crimped Apple slit CS ATA cable with my Seagate Ultra ATA(DMA) 750GB 7200.10 drive, jumpered to Master. So far, the drive has not started clicking, and dropping off the radar ... which to me could indicate a failing drive and/or a bad connection. With it being a year old, light use, Seagate, and the crimped cable, I'm going with it having been a bad connection, for now. And I am using the symbolically unpleasant terms of Master/Slave to solve my hard drive dropping dead while over-working issue ... although I have no Slaves in my household. Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
On Jun 17, 10:15 am, insightinmind billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: Someone stated (Peter, I believe, if I understood correctly) Apple, historically, uses an HP/Compaq patented Startup protocol that requires the Cable Select (slitted) off the mobo ATA cable at Startup, then, depending on the machine and particular hard drive specs, uses whatever the drive is set to (CS/Single/Master/Slave). First the caveat that I am only familiar ... to whatever extent I have an understanding ... with the hard drive side of this discussion. I haven't worked with PATA drives in a Mac and I certainly have *never* worked with a PPC Mac (though I *have* worked on PPC systems so the PPC is not a complete mystery to me ;-). What confuses me in the above is the speculation that the hardware might somehow require Cable Select. Support for Cable Select is mostly about the cable you use. The hardware/controller has a relatively small part to play. I'm basing that on what I read in this Wikipedia article which sounds credible to me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT_Attachment#Cable_select In particular ... Cable select is controlled by pin 28. The host adapter grounds this pin; if a device sees that the pin is grounded, it becomes the master device; if it sees that pin 28 is open, the device becomes the slave device. and Pin 28 is only used to let the drives know their position on the cable; it is not used by the host when communicating with the drives. To that I'd add that I can't see any way in which a controller could interegate pin 28 to learn anything about the attached drives. So I don't see how the hardware could require Cable Select in any way. Bottom line as I see it, there are three reasons why Cable Select might not work: 1) The drive doesn't support it (correctly). 2) The cable doesn't implement it correctly. (Most likely scenario and easiest to test for/fix IMO. PATA cables are one big PITA IMHO :) 3) The controller doesn't properly ground Pin 28. (Can't say how likely or not this might be. Depends on the age of the hardware, I suppose.) But, then again, I've been wrong before ... -irrational john --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
On Jun 17, 2009, at 10:14 AM, irrational john wrote: I'm basing that on what I read in this Wikipedia article which sounds credible to me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT_Attachment#Cable_select As usual Wiki is Wiki. Take it or leave it, as you choose. The background for the CS, first, during device initialization, and M/ S, second, during normal device operations, as employed by Apple in the BW and all later models, is ... US Patent 5761460 - Reconfigurable dual master IDE interface ... which patent teaches how an IDE interface may be utilized in a new and inventive way to: 1) determine if a cable is attached at all, 2) if a cable is attached, to determine which of 40-wire/40-pin or 80- wire/40-pin cable it is, 3) if a master device exists, to determine the fastest it is capable of being operated, 4) if a slave device exists, to determine the fastest it is capable of being operated, and, finally 5) given all of the above, the possible two semi-independent channels (on the one single bus) may be appropriately programmed for the best device utilization. Implicit in the above objectives, the devices themselves may interrogate the connector and its cable to determine how best to communicate with the host. In all of these discussions, the computer itself is the initiator (host), and the attached devices are responders (dependents whether master or slave doesn't matter as masters and slaves are actually peers of each other). For the particular case of modern optical drives, such as fast DVD burners, the burner needs to know if it can depend upon the host to ship data with high data integrity, and at a rate which will not cause the device to under-run (implicitly, a device cannot be over- run as the host is programmed to ensure this). So, the burners specifically look for the differences between the 40- wire/40-pin and the 80-wire/40-pin cable, and it limits the burn rate to 8X or less for the 40-wire/40-pin case, and possibly 20X or more (but surely more than 8X) for the 80-wire/40-pin case. From the patent text (abbreviated): ... SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION A dual-master data storage interface is disclosed which flexibly configures and connects data storage drives in the portable computer to optimize performance when the portable computer is operating in a stand-alone mode. The invention further optimizes accessibility to additional data storage drives when the portable computer is docked to an expansion unit. The interface has first and second channels adapted to control first and second data storage drives and registers for configuring each drive as a master drive or a slave drive. When the portable computer operates as a stand-alone unit (i.e., not docked to the expansion unit), each drive on the portable is configured to operate as a master drive which is separately connected to a channel to optimize performance. ... Upon separation, each drive on the portable computer is configured and remapped as a master on a separate channel for maximizing data transfer performance. Thus, by allowing for flexibility in changing the drive configuration and channel connection, the invention ensures compatibility with the standard BIOS when the portable computer is docked with the expansion unit. Further, the present invention optimizes data transfer performance from the drives when the portable computer is separated from the expansion unit. ... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
(SOLVED) Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
Thanks all. I'm satisfied that this thread is finished, problem solved, and then some. Bill Connelly --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 09:27 -0400, Len Gerstel wrote: On Jun 17, 2009, at 4:11 AM, Ralph Green wrote: Use any flat IDE cable you want. Use 80 pin cables if you want speeds greater than 33 megabytes per second. I thought an IDE cable is an IDE cable is anso when you say to use 80 pin IDE for increased speed, what do you mean? Please expand It is not 80 pin, it is 80 wires. The cables still have the standard 40 pins. Yes. I should have said 80 wire. The connectors are all 40 pin. I usually save the 40 pin cables for older systems. But, it is good to know that you can use them for any parallel ATA drive, in a pinch. I help people rebuild older systems pretty often. To tell if you have a 80 wire cable, you can count the wires. Or, a shortcut is to look at one end. Count how many wires are in the width of one column of 2 pins. Look at the connector that plugs into the drive as 20 columns by 2 rows. If there are 2 wires for every row of 2 pins, it is a 40 wire cable. If there are 4 wires for every row of 2 pins, it is a 80 wire cable. Does that make sense? You could also hold the cables up against a cable you know is 40 or 80 wires. The 80 wire cables are noticeably different. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
At 10:09 AM -0400 6/15/2009, Bill Connelly wrote: My Seagate PATA 750GB drive (an Ultra ATA drive) has dropped out from time to time off my mobo IDE channel, and it has brought up the question of should I be using CS Mode or change it to Master / Slave (Master, since I only have one drive). If the system supports Cable Select, then use it. If in doubt, then just use the traditional Master/Slave set-up. Note that some drives support Master, Slave, and Master-Alone - the latter being a third setting (jumper). If not using CS, then always check for this. The drives that have that 3rd setting won't work reliably if just set them as Master then don't plug in a slave. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
On Jun 15, 10:09 am, Bill Connelly billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: My Seagate PATA 750GB drive (an Ultra ATA drive) has dropped out from time to time off my mobo IDE channel, and it has brought up the question of should I be using CS Mode or change it to Master / Slave (Master, since I only have one drive). With only one drive I would set it as Master and place it on the end of the ATA cable, the place designated for Master drive. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
On Jun 15, 2009, at 12:31 PM, Dan wrote: At 10:09 AM -0400 6/15/2009, Bill Connelly wrote: My Seagate PATA 750GB drive (an Ultra ATA drive) has dropped out from time to time off my mobo IDE channel, and it has brought up the question of should I be using CS Mode or change it to Master / Slave (Master, since I only have one drive). If the system supports Cable Select, then use it. If in doubt, then just use the traditional Master/Slave set-up. AND from dc: With only one drive I would set it as Master and place it on the end of the ATA cable, the place designated for Master drive. I decided to replace the short Apple Cable Select ATA cable with the out-of-the-box standard lengthy ATA cable, and set my Seagate Ultra ATA to Master. Believe that will work ... I was already using Master settings in my DA for its Seagate Ultra 500GB, since I was running off the Sonnet Trio ATA133/FW ... card, and was using another out-of-the-box standard ATA cable. Funny ... the top of the Seagate drives say use Cable Select for its Ultra ATA drive ... but one of Apple's docs says Cable Select won't work for Ultra ATAs in the Quicksilver 2002 and other G4s ... and to not use the Apple supplied cable ... Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
On Jun 15, 2009, at 2:44 PM, PeterH wrote: On Jun 15, 2009, at 9:49 AM, insightinmind wrote: Funny ... the top of the Seagate drives say use Cable Select for its Ultra ATA drive ... but one of Apple's docs says Cable Select won't work for Ultra ATAs in the Quicksilver 2002 and other G4s ... and to not use the Apple supplied cable ... The Apple cables from the BW on are 80-wire/40-pin, and are configured for Cable Select so that the H-P/Compaq patented method of interrogating the drives may be used during startup. Just for the main hard drive connection: So it is NOT ok to use the UltraATA cable (Space Shuttle-D, Cd Pb Free, 80wire/40pin) supplied in a Retail Box Kit along with a Seagate UltraATA drive as the cable off the Apple mobo, because of a HP/ Compaq patented method of interrogating the drive at Startup, in my Quicksilver 2002 Dual 1GHz? I need to put back the short one with the slit (hence Cable Select cable), and set my Seagate to Master, because ... This article: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1815 says my Mac doesn't work with Ultra ATA drives set to Cable Select mode. This should remedy the situation as long as the Apple cable (Apple P/ N 590-2253 REV A) isn't damaged? Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Cable Select OR Master / Slave in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz? (and DA Dual 533)
On Jun 15, 2009, at 12:18 PM, insightinmind wrote: Just for the main hard drive connection: So it is NOT ok to use the UltraATA cable (Space Shuttle-D, Cd Pb Free, 80wire/40pin) supplied in a Retail Box Kit along with a Seagate UltraATA drive as the cable off the Apple mobo, because of a HP/ Compaq patented method of interrogating the drive at Startup, in my Quicksilver 2002 Dual 1GHz? I need to put back the short one with the slit (hence Cable Select cable), and set my Seagate to Master, because ... This article: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1815 As usual, Apple covered too much in a single post. Many free (i.e., retail) cables are 80-wire/40-pin and are also Cable Select. These MAY BE USED in place of the short cable ... if you can figure out a way to fold them without also breaking the conductors. The 80-wire/40-pin cables have #30 AWG SOLID conductors, and are fragile. The 40-wire/40-pin cables have #28 AWG stranded conductors, and are not as fragile. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
