Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
Apple going to AMD? That is a very close possibility that could happen in the next 5 years, but i won't like that at all. I liked it when Apple Macs still were made with the good ol' PowerPC processor. If you're gonna make any negotiations Apple, talk with IBM again and bring back the performance and originality of the PowerPC processor! Intel macs are just as good, it's just that when I grew up, i got used to this. Intel=Pcs, PowerPC=Macs. I am not saying that it's a bad thing, but switching to intel was taking away the personality, uniqueness, and originality of a Mac. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
Title: Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ? At 4:39 AM + 4/17/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Some here will not like this. Some will dismiss it. Just as Intel rumors were often dismissed. http://blogs.zdnet.com/computers/?p=2162tag=nl.e589 It is unacceptable for Apple product development and releases to be held up by a 3rd party. In order to innovate, Apple must be supplier *independent. This is another positive step in that direction. It's only April and we've now seen three major steps: 1) The A4 and the new MBP's fast graphics switching developed in-house (by PA Semi). 2) No crappy lease comedy nominator run-times will be permitted in iPhone OS. 3) AMD. Can't wait to see what happens in May/June! ROFL. New MacBook, Mac Pros, XServe, iPhones, ... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
On Apr 17, 2010, at 9:48 AM, Dan wrote: At 4:39 AM + 4/17/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Some here will not like this. Some will dismiss it. Just as Intel rumors were often dismissed. http://blogs.zdnet.com/computers/?p=2162tag=nl.e589 It is unacceptable for Apple product development and releases to be held up by a 3rd party. In order to innovate, Apple must be supplier *independent. This is another positive step in that direction. It's only April and we've now seen three major steps: 1) The A4 and the new MBP's fast graphics switching developed in- house (by PA Semi). 2) No crappy lease comedy nominator run-times will be permitted in iPhone OS. 3) AMD. Can't wait to see what happens in May/June! ROFL. New MacBook, Mac Pros, XServe, iPhones, ... - Dan. Heh... Apple probably has 'nuff bux to buy AMD! JT Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4bc9d8b8dd2572d36adst04vuc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 07:23:42 -0500, Mark Sokolovsky coolmar...@gmail.com wrote: Apple going to AMD? That is a very close possibility that could happen in the next 5 years, but i won't like that at all. I liked it when Apple Macs still were made with the good ol' PowerPC processor. If you're gonna make any negotiations Apple, talk with IBM again and bring back the performance and originality of the PowerPC processor! Intel macs are just as good, it's just that when I grew up, i got used to this. Intel=Pcs, PowerPC=Macs. I am not saying that it's a bad thing, but switching to intel was taking away the personality, uniqueness, and originality of a Mac. I agree! -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
Well in the end, everybody moves on, and Apple has left behind a legend of PowerPc computers, and it has made it's mark on history. I would be glad to see Apple making both PowerPC and AMD and intel processors, so everyone has a choice. Other than that, yeah Apple had made quite some history with all of it's products so far. I have been noticing that they have been liquidating macs and cutting their prices in huge amounts, so i wouldn't be surprised if Apple had the same story with both the PowerPC to intel transition, and the Intel to AMD transition. Imagine... snow leopard made for intel only like tiger was only made for PowerPC, but then Mac OS X 10.6.9 is released (lets pretend this is February 2011) and it has support for both AMd and intel. Then Apple stops making intel macs, and releases mac OS X 10.7, the last version of Mac OS X to support Intel macs. Then they release mac OS X 10.8, which only supports AMd processors. If this cycle keeps going on, i wonder what processor they will switch to when they are done with AMD processors... mac OS X 10.9, then 10.10 or 11.0.. and so on... I really wouldn't be surprised if this would happen. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
I might be completely wrong but i think it will go like this: Mac OS X 10.4 PowerPC Mac OS X 10.4.3 PowerPC Intel Mac OS X 10.5 PowerPC Intel Mac OS X 10.6 Intel only mac OS X 10.6.9 Intel and AMD Mac OS X 10.7 Intel and AMD Mac OS X 10.8 AMd only Mac OS X 10.8.8 AMD and PowerPC G6?!?! Mac OS X 10.9 AMD and PowerPC G6 G7? Mac OS XI 11.0 PowerPC G6 G7 G8 only?!?! =) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
On Apr 17, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Mark Sokolovsky wrote: I might be completely wrong Yes, your chart is wrong. Here's the chart: 10.4 Tiger:Separate PPC Intel versions 10.5 Leopard: 1 universal PPC Intel version 10.6 Snow Leopard: Hybrid 3264 bit kernel, Intel only 10.7 ???: 64-bit kernel only The process is transitioning from PPC-to-Intel, and from 32-bit-to-64- bit. Each transition has one hybrid build. The PPC-to-Intel hybrid build is Leopard 10.5. The 32-bit-to-64-bit hybrid build is 10.6 Snow Leopard. AMD CPUs would be a minor modification with no need for any separate or hybrid version. Most Hackintosh PCs already work perfectly with AMD CPUs now. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
lol. u know everyone's talkin' the talk when it comes to Mac OS X on Pcs and AMD systems. I don't see anyone walkin' the walk, because i have never seen Mac OS X on a Pc with Intel or AMD with my own eyes. I want a step-by-step procedure so i can get it running on a Pentium 4 system. I will try leopard. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
On Apr 17, 2010, at 11:05 AM, Mark Sokolovsky wrote: lol. u know everyone's talkin' the talk when it comes to Mac OS X on Pcs and AMD systems. I don't see anyone walkin' the walk, because i have never seen Mac OS X on a Pc with Intel or AMD with my own eyes. I want a step-by-step procedure so i can get it running on a Pentium 4 system. I will try leopard. Why would anyone want to even turn on a PC Windbloze much less prostitute a pure OS like Mac.?? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
I assume that Apple's preference is to be the one telling its suppliers what to do, not the other way around. I suspect that's what this is probably about. Maybe they'll migrate to AMD, maybe not. At the very least I suspect it's something like your spouse having lunch with an old flame. Hey, it was just lunch, nothing more! But the underlying point is clear enough, no? Don't take me for granted. I've got options. There really is no competition at this point in time for Intel CPUs in terms of raw performance. But product design isn't always about picking the highest performing component. I suppose an argument could be made for Apple diversifying its product line and offering some products at a lower price point with AMD CPUs. Only time will tell ... a common observation when it comes to Apple, no? -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Mark Sokolovsky coolmar...@gmail.com wrote: I want a step-by-step procedure so i can get it running on a Pentium 4 system. Well, the truth as I understand it that you simply can NOT run OS X on a PC/bios based Intel computer. At least not without modifying stuff. The further away one gets from a Mac platform in terms of the components of the PC the more stuff there is which needs to be modified. To run on a Pentium 4 system you're talking at least about modifications to the kernel, which IMO is a rather big step away from a so-called vanilla install. I believe that a Hackintosh will never be a Mac in that it will always be more a hobby than tool. It's better suited to folks who like to play with their computer as much or more than actually use it. I doubt a Hackintosh will ever be appropriate for any Mac user for whom one of the things they like most about a Mac is that they never have to think about it, they can just use it. If you want your PC to be an appliance, then you definitely do NOT want a Hackintosh, at least IMHO. I've always assumed this is a major reason why Apple doesn't go out of its way to eliminate Hackintoshs created by individuals. It's not pertinent (enough). The effort to squash it would be more bother than benefit to the corporate bottom line. At least for now. -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
I was just curious on how this is possible. I know that just any computer with OS X is not a Mac. It wo't feel like a mac, or work like one, or even come close to looking like one, unless you have a real mac. I only want to know how this is possible to shake out some rumors i have still stuck in my head. Other than that, only a real mac like the PowerPC systems and the Intel Macs can look work and feel like one. If Mac OS X is on a PC, it will be incompatible with everything. The Mac OS X system will be ok, but the PC will act like a meanie and tease OS X. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
Mark Sokolovsky wrote: I was just curious on how this is possible. I know that just any computer with OS X is not a Mac. It wo't feel like a mac, or work like one, or even come close to looking like one, unless you have a real mac. I only want to know how this is possible to shake out some rumors i have still stuck in my head. Other than that, only a real mac like the PowerPC systems and the Intel Macs can look work and feel like one. If Mac OS X is on a PC, it will be incompatible with everything. The Mac OS X system will be ok, but the PC will act like a meanie and tease OS X. I am really not sure where you got some of your ideas here about what OS can go on what hardware. Other than the EFI firmware that controls loading of OS similar to BOIS on a PC, there is no difference in the Intel Mac and a PC hardware-wise. There are a number of people putting OS-X on PC Hardware. They are on a google groups list called Hackintosh. I am not sure how you can say only the PPC and Intel Macs will Look and feel like a real Mac should if you have never seen how the Hackintoshes work. Any OS can be installed to any hardware so long as the proper porting to that system has been done. I would hope that one day people will understand that they see little of the hardware, if any, unless it is not working well. What you call the look and feel of a real Mac is all just software. If Apple sealed their computer cases and no one told you what was inside, you wouldn't know if it was PPC, Intel, AMD, Sparc, Alpha, or a freaking diesel locomotive. Peace, Dennis in Victoria -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
nice comments... I wish to see an AMD transaction... I guess AMD will over focus it because of getting lack of power on compition with Intel. I guess AMD will supply new flagship processors for Apple only for limited time and two companies come together. And Apple will may use it with getting bargain prices from Intel If you like to add comment on it on our website please comment on www.macosxapplications.com Thanks. 2010/4/17 Mark Sokolovsky coolmar...@gmail.com I was just curious on how this is possible. I know that just any computer with OS X is not a Mac. It wo't feel like a mac, or work like one, or even come close to looking like one, unless you have a real mac. I only want to know how this is possible to shake out some rumors i have still stuck in my head. Other than that, only a real mac like the PowerPC systems and the Intel Macs can look work and feel like one. If Mac OS X is on a PC, it will be incompatible with everything. The Mac OS X system will be ok, but the PC will act like a meanie and tease OS X. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- Baha Ata -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
At 3:45 PM -0400 4/17/2010, Mark Sokolovsky wrote: I was just curious on how this is possible. Mac == a PC standard mb + EFI + a specific selection of processors, buses, and peripherals. To slap Mac OS X on a PC, you need two things: A PC with the right combination of hardware, and a wedge to make BIOS smell like EFI. That's what the Hacintosh project(s) are all about. Start here: http://www.osx86project.org/ - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
There is EFI bios usb solutions out there already with right or choosen hardware Pc can work with Mac Os X without hack with orginal DVD of Mac OS X 2010/4/17 Dan dantear...@gmail.com At 3:45 PM -0400 4/17/2010, Mark Sokolovsky wrote: I was just curious on how this is possible. Mac == a PC standard mb + EFI + a specific selection of processors, buses, and peripherals. To slap Mac OS X on a PC, you need two things: A PC with the right combination of hardware, and a wedge to make BIOS smell like EFI. That's what the Hacintosh project(s) are all about. Start here: http://www.osx86project.org/ - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- Baha Ata -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
On Apr 17, 2010, at 3:15 PM, Baha Ata wrote: There is EFI bios usb solutions out there already with right or choosen hardware Pc can work with Mac Os X without hack with orginal DVD of Mac OS X I think that the Dell mini laptop, (netbook I think), might be one of 'em. There are sure a number of 'em usually on the Austin Craig's list. Not for me though... Who wants a 9 screen! JT Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4bca32f61cf046628dst06duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:06:44 -0500, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 3:45 PM -0400 4/17/2010, Mark Sokolovsky wrote: I was just curious on how this is possible. Mac == a PC standard mb + EFI + a specific selection of processors, buses, and peripherals. To slap Mac OS X on a PC, you need two things: A PC with the right combination of hardware, and a wedge to make BIOS smell like EFI. That's what the Hacintosh project(s) are all about. Start here: http://www.osx86project.org/ - Dan. One small correction: Mac=(PC-BIOS-SMBus)+EFI+SMC :) -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
Personally, I think Apple might go in the ARM direction… maybe. I'd love to see a PPC revival, but using AMD (with their powerhouse ATI division) isn't exactly a bad thing either. My desktop, an old PIII (my iPad is understandably my primary computer, with my parent's HP Pavilion and my college's iMacs supporting it) is in some major need of an upgrade, and I'm definitely looking at AMD stuff (for running Ubuntu, not Win7 ;-). That said, AMD has some great reliability (our old 1999 Presario has a AMD K6 which works better than the PIII), and I think the cool names that AMD gives their CPUs might be more Apple-esque than Core 2 Duo or i7. All-in-all, exciting times for Apple and the Mac-verse in general Proudly sent from my iPad. On Apr 17, 12:41 pm, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: On Apr 17, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Mark Sokolovsky wrote: I might be completely wrong Yes, your chart is wrong. Here's the chart: 10.4 Tiger: Separate PPC Intel versions 10.5 Leopard: 1 universal PPC Intel version 10.6 Snow Leopard: Hybrid 3264 bit kernel, Intel only 10.7 ???: 64-bit kernel only The process is transitioning from PPC-to-Intel, and from 32-bit-to-64- bit. Each transition has one hybrid build. The PPC-to-Intel hybrid build is Leopard 10.5. The 32-bit-to-64-bit hybrid build is 10.6 Snow Leopard. AMD CPUs would be a minor modification with no need for any separate or hybrid version. Most Hackintosh PCs already work perfectly with AMD CPUs now. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is athttp://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtmland our netiquette guide is athttp://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT; Apple in negotiation with AMD ?
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 23:39:43 -0500, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: Some here will not like this. Some will dismiss it. Just as Intel rumors were often dismissed. http://blogs.zdnet.com/computers/?p=2162tag=nl.e589 Oh i would love Apple to go to AMD. Really it isn't a very big switch though. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
