Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 12, 2010, at 10:54 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: Previously, Alex Barnes so eloquently wrote: The thing must've had terrible gas milage. Paul Stamsen replied: No big deal when gas was 25¢ a gallon or less! Nope! We want to party like it's 1999 again. http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/ Gasoline_inflation_chart.htm Ahhh. yes! Back in them thar' days, 1997), when my 'puter was a Power Computing Power Tower 166 with a whoppin' 4GB drive and loaded with 256MB RAM that I bought for a measly $1,700 (factory refurb sale at the old Palmer Auditorium, I was in hawg heaven. That year I had refurbished an old Studebaker Lark four door with the venerable bullet proof 259 V8 which I had the timing cranked way up 'cause premium gas was only 98¢. Damned that thang would fly! Now the daily driver is an '82 Honda Civic 1500 DX automatic that, well, er... gets around 35mpg. G4 gigabit will be ten years old next month so I see a (used) Intel Mac Mini as a replacement on its anniversary... JT (Not in the fast lane anymore, just steady as she goes.) Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d064734c3f09787ad2st01vuc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 13, 2010, at 12:51 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: Previously, Alex Barnes so eloquently wrote: The thing must've had terrible gas milage. Paul Stamsen replied: No big deal when gas was 25¢ a gallon or less! Nope! We want to party like it's 1999 again. http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/ Gasoline_inflation_chart.htm My own rule of thumb from lifelong observation and real world buying power of the dollar is that gas at $ 2.90 a gallon is equal to about about $0.32 in 1970 dollars. The only thing that makes gas seem expensive to me is the low amount I can buy with a measely retirement income. And the guv'ment COLA on the SS portion sure doesn't reflect the real picture, eh? JT Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d0647c6913a7ee812st05vuc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 11, 9:44 pm, Dennis Myhand wrote: Even if you got zapped, it would only be a momentary discomfort. Lotsa voltage but notta lot of current... JT It only takes 50milliamps. That isn't a lot as it is. wrong again. 50 mA causes no more than discomfort. it requires a sustained 100-200 mA to induce ventricular fibrillation, and over 200 mA to halt breathing and pose a serious risk of death (quoted directly from a medical text). please scroll up to read a knowledgable contribution to this thread from Jeff Walther. i might add that i too, as a young apprentice to an electrician, once touched a hot 220 feed (unfused, directly from the powerlines) and even though it knocked me to the floor 15 feet from where i was standing, i neither needed nor received any medical attention, and i am still here to tell you that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the dangers of electric shocks. furthermore, the total amount of charge stored in a CRT is minimal, and is completely discharged in a millisecond or so. hardly a sustained electrocution. i suppose if someone were soaking wet and standing on their naked left foot on a grounded metal plate connected by metal rods sunk to the level of the water table, and they discharged a just unplugged CRT thru their left hand forcing the momentary current to pass direct thru their heart, there might be a small risk of inducing ventricular fibrillation (which is still not necessarily fatal). the absurdly over-cautious posts in this thread simply confirm the old adage that there is nothing more dangerous than a little bit of knowledge. not even electricity. besides, as the original poster has just added, replacing the HD in an eMac is simple, and unless someone is a complete idiot (in which case a highly improbable death by electric shock would just be one small victory for evolution), it is easily done without ever going near the CRT. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On 12/11/2010 9:44 PM, Dennis Myhand wrote: It only takes 50milliamps. That isn't a lot as it is. Actually it takes about 500 milliamps. See this page: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_3/4.html The resistance of dry skin is about 1 megaohm and the crt usually has about 25,000 volts on it which works out to about 2.5 milliamps. Not a pleasant experience but not generally lethal. I've discharged a crt through my hand once, by accident, and suffered no harm except a sore hand and a bout of cursing. That being said, if you're fresh out of the shower and working with both hands at the 2nd anode on the crt I would recommend re-thinking what you are doing. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
At 8:20 PM -0600 12/11/2010, James Therrault wrote: Even if you got zapped, it would only be a momentary discomfort. Lotsa voltage but notta lot of current... ROFLMAO. Arg, 'tis a nice tingle. (Down Periscope - the radio guy providing power to the system thru his body). I still have scars from a crt zap, in HS. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 12, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Dan wrote: At 8:20 PM -0600 12/11/2010, James Therrault wrote: Even if you got zapped, it would only be a momentary discomfort. Lotsa voltage but notta lot of current... ROFLMAO. Arg, 'tis a nice tingle. (Down Periscope - the radio guy providing power to the system thru his body). I still have scars from a crt zap, in HS. Our old family mechanic had a habit of asking you to hand a wrench or other metallic tool while he was holding a plug wire from a running car. Not pleasant but hardly lethal... JT Globe Life Insurance $1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d04fb7e5e7a6637dfast04duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
At 10:42 AM -0600 12/12/2010, James Therrault wrote: On Dec 12, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Dan wrote: At 8:20 PM -0600 12/11/2010, James Therrault wrote: Even if you got zapped, it would only be a momentary discomfort. Lotsa voltage but notta lot of current... ROFLMAO. Arg, 'tis a nice tingle. (Down Periscope - the radio guy providing power to the system thru his body). I still have scars from a crt zap, in HS. Our old family mechanic had a habit of asking you to hand a wrench or other metallic tool while he was holding a plug wire from a running car. Not pleasant but hardly lethal... That's as good as leaving charged capacitors on your work bench, for the hands-on teacher to, um, find, when he was checking your work. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 12, 2010, at 11:20 AM, Dan wrote: At 10:42 AM -0600 12/12/2010, James Therrault wrote: On Dec 12, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Dan wrote: At 8:20 PM -0600 12/11/2010, James Therrault wrote: Even if you got zapped, it would only be a momentary discomfort. Lotsa voltage but notta lot of current... ROFLMAO. Arg, 'tis a nice tingle. (Down Periscope - the radio guy providing power to the system thru his body). I still have scars from a crt zap, in HS. Our old family mechanic had a habit of asking you to hand a wrench or other metallic tool while he was holding a plug wire from a running car. Not pleasant but hardly lethal... That's as good as leaving charged capacitors on your work bench, for the hands-on teacher to, um, find, when he was checking your work. I'd venture a (experienced) guess that a discharge from a high capacity electrolytic could be more hazardous than a CRT or spark- plug discharge. Then there is always the anticipated event when purposely reverse biassing a high capacity electrolytic. Ahhh, the good ol' days! JT DEVELOPING STORY: Samsung 46#34; 3D LED TV for $84.95 BREAKING NEWS: Online Auction site to GIVE away 1,000 LED TVs for ONLY $84.95! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d050b80c9e466b2f2st06duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On 12/12/2010 10:42 AM, James Therrault wrote: On Dec 12, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Dan wrote: At 8:20 PM -0600 12/11/2010, James Therrault wrote: Even if you got zapped, it would only be a momentary discomfort. Lotsa voltage but notta lot of current... ROFLMAO. Arg, 'tis a nice tingle. (Down Periscope - the radio guy providing power to the system thru his body). I still have scars from a crt zap, in HS. Our old family mechanic had a habit of asking you to hand a wrench or other metallic tool while he was holding a plug wire from a running car. Not pleasant but hardly lethal... JT My father once pulled the Number 1 plug wire from our '49 Dodge truck and plugged in my finger to the wire and started the truck. I still remember the look on his face when he grabbed the door handle, not realizing that I had my other hand on the fender, to get out to me. It slapped him across the cab! It seems magnetos put out more juice than coils then. I can still check a plug wire by running it between my fingers while the engine idles. I feel strangely at peace after I do. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 12, 2010, at 1:17 PM, Dennis Myhand wrote: On 12/12/2010 10:42 AM, James Therrault wrote: On Dec 12, 2010, at 9:05 AM, Dan wrote: At 8:20 PM -0600 12/11/2010, James Therrault wrote: Even if you got zapped, it would only be a momentary discomfort. Lotsa voltage but notta lot of current... ROFLMAO. Arg, 'tis a nice tingle. (Down Periscope - the radio guy providing power to the system thru his body). I still have scars from a crt zap, in HS. Our old family mechanic had a habit of asking you to hand a wrench or other metallic tool while he was holding a plug wire from a running car. Not pleasant but hardly lethal... JT My father once pulled the Number 1 plug wire from our '49 Dodge truck and plugged in my finger to the wire and started the truck. I still remember the look on his face when he grabbed the door handle, not realizing that I had my other hand on the fender, to get out to me. It slapped him across the cab! It seems magnetos put out more juice than coils then. I can still check a plug wire by running it between my fingers while the engine idles. I feel strangely at peace after I do. Magnetos? I thought that they went out long before that. My ol' '31 Studebaker President had points/coil ignition! Two coils at that... JT SHOCKING: 2010 Honda Civic for $1,734.09 SHOCKING Report: Brand New Products for up to 95% off? We discover the TRUTH#46;#46;#46; http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d0523b3d57f56c46ecst02duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
(in which case a highly improbable death by electric shock would just be one small victory for evolution) Ah-clem, I'm starting to enjoy you. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On 12/12/2010 1:34 PM, James Therrault wrote: My father once pulled the Number 1 plug wire from our '49 Dodge truck and plugged in my finger to the wire and started the truck. I still remember the look on his face when he grabbed the door handle, not realizing that I had my other hand on the fender, to get out to me. It slapped him across the cab! It seems magnetos put out more juice than coils then. I can still check a plug wire by running it between my fingers while the engine idles. I feel strangely at peace after I do. Magnetos? I thought that they went out long before that. My ol' '31 Studebaker President had points/coil ignition! Two coils at that... JT It was an old Ma Bell Line truck. Sucker had heavy duty everything. 4 inch channel iron for bumpers, welded directly to the frame, big flat head 6, DU model. Was rated at 1.5 ton. Damn I wish we still had that truck. Peace, Dennis -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
The thing must've had terrible gas milage. On Dec 12, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Dennis Myhand wrote: On 12/12/2010 1:34 PM, James Therrault wrote: My father once pulled the Number 1 plug wire from our '49 Dodge truck and plugged in my finger to the wire and started the truck. I still remember the look on his face when he grabbed the door handle, not realizing that I had my other hand on the fender, to get out to me. It slapped him across the cab! It seems magnetos put out more juice than coils then. I can still check a plug wire by running it between my fingers while the engine idles. I feel strangely at peace after I do. Magnetos? I thought that they went out long before that. My ol' '31 Studebaker President had points/coil ignition! Two coils at that... JT It was an old Ma Bell Line truck. Sucker had heavy duty everything. 4 inch channel iron for bumpers, welded directly to the frame, big flat head 6, DU model. Was rated at 1.5 ton. Damn I wish we still had that truck. Peace, Dennis -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
Since this was the time when gas in California was 14.9 cents per gallon, we didn't really pay much attention to the mileage a vehicle got. On 12/12/2010 5:33 PM, Alex Barnes wrote: The thing must've had terrible gas milage. On Dec 12, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Dennis Myhand wrote: It was an old Ma Bell Line truck. Sucker had heavy duty everything. 4 inch channel iron for bumpers, welded directly to the frame, big flat head 6, DU model. Was rated at 1.5 ton. Damn I wish we still had that truck. Peace, Dennis -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
Previously, at 4:33 PM -0700 12/12/10, as Alex Barnes so eloquently wrote: The thing must've had terrible gas milage. No big deal when gas was 25¢ a gallon or less! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
Ok, ok, so since we are now all confidant about all this shocking 2nd anode charge stuff, here goes a real good true story. Many years ago I was working at a TV repair store to pay for college. TVs were removed from the cabinet and put on the repair bench. We did not remove the CRT from the cabinet, just used an old surplus 5 CRT and connected the 2nd anode wire via an alligator clip to the nub on the CRT. This was easy to snap off and I was holding the chassis to look at some part and the clip snapped off and hit the keys in my front pocket. I can tell you for sure, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT AT ALL, about 20KV does fry things close to them keys and oh my that did hurt, but no apparent damages since I got 4 kids. JML. === --- On Sat, 12/11/10, ah...clem boneheads...@gmail.com wrote: From: ah...clem boneheads...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, December 11, 2010, 11:14 PM On Dec 11, 9:44 pm, Dennis Myhand wrote: Even if you got zapped, it would only be a momentary discomfort. Lotsa voltage but notta lot of current... JT It only takes 50milliamps. That isn't a lot as it is. wrong again. 50 mA causes no more than discomfort. it requires a sustained 100-200 mA to induce ventricular fibrillation, and over 200 mA to halt breathing and pose a serious risk of death (quoted directly from a medical text). please scroll up to read a knowledgable contribution to this thread from Jeff Walther. i might add that i too, as a young apprentice to an electrician, once touched a hot 220 feed (unfused, directly from the powerlines) and even though it knocked me to the floor 15 feet from where i was standing, i neither needed nor received any medical attention, and i am still here to tell you that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the dangers of electric shocks. furthermore, the total amount of charge stored in a CRT is minimal, and is completely discharged in a millisecond or so. hardly a sustained electrocution. i suppose if someone were soaking wet and standing on their naked left foot on a grounded metal plate connected by metal rods sunk to the level of the water table, and they discharged a just unplugged CRT thru their left hand forcing the momentary current to pass direct thru their heart, there might be a small risk of inducing ventricular fibrillation (which is still not necessarily fatal). the absurdly over-cautious posts in this thread simply confirm the old adage that there is nothing more dangerous than a little bit of knowledge. not even electricity. besides, as the original poster has just added, replacing the HD in an eMac is simple, and unless someone is a complete idiot (in which case a highly improbable death by electric shock would just be one small victory for evolution), it is easily done without ever going near the CRT. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
It is a problem when you live in Texas. When you are driving down I-10 and in the middle of nowhere there are gas stations every 100+ miles. On Dec 12, 2010, at 8:29 PM, Paul Stamsen wrote: Previously, at 4:33 PM -0700 12/12/10, as Alex Barnes so eloquently wrote: The thing must've had terrible gas milage. No big deal when gas was 25¢ a gallon or less! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 12, 2010, at 7:05 AM, Dan wrote: At 8:20 PM -0600 12/11/2010, James Therrault wrote: Even if you got zapped, it would only be a momentary discomfort. Lotsa voltage but notta lot of current... ROFLMAO. Arg, 'tis a nice tingle. (Down Periscope - the radio guy providing power to the system thru his body). I still have scars from a crt zap, in HS. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. No scars, but I'll never forget the sensation of getting zapped with the 208V / 400Hz inside a launcher control console that was supposed to be powered down! Amanda -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
Previously, at 9:40 PM -0700 12/12/10, as Alex Barnes so eloquently wrote: It is a problem when you live in Texas. When you are driving down I-10 and in the middle of nowhere there are gas stations every 100+ miles. I didn't that then and I'm sure as heck surprised now! Rural Michigan had a lot more gas stations in the ol days. Thanks for the update? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote: Previously, Alex Barnes so eloquently wrote: The thing must've had terrible gas milage. Paul Stamsen replied: No big deal when gas was 25¢ a gallon or less! Nope! We want to party like it's 1999 again. http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/Gasoline_inflation_chart.htm My own rule of thumb from lifelong observation and real world buying power of the dollar is that gas at $ 2.90 a gallon is equal to about about $0.32 in 1970 dollars. The only thing that makes gas seem expensive to me is the low amount I can buy with a measely retirement income. All of you independant contractors get a real job or pay out of your contractor earnings or there will be no retirement income, measely or otherwise in your future. Not a judgement, just have friends who thought they were covered. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
I just finished successfully replacing a hard drive in a 1.42GHZ eMac. I'm still alive, and it didn't take me very long. I got to thinking about the suggestion of bleeding the electricity out of the monitor, and I realized that you are more likely to get zapped doing that than just replacing the hard drive. It is very easy to avoid even touching the components of the CRT monitor when replacing the hard drive. The only way you're going to get zapped, is if you have no idea what you are doing, or you try to bleed it. Just a thought. -Jonas -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 11, 2010, at 8:13 PM, Jonas Ulrich wrote: I just finished successfully replacing a hard drive in a 1.42GHZ eMac. I'm still alive, and it didn't take me very long. I got to thinking about the suggestion of bleeding the electricity out of the monitor, and I realized that you are more likely to get zapped doing that than just replacing the hard drive. It is very easy to avoid even touching the components of the CRT monitor when replacing the hard drive. The only way you're going to get zapped, is if you have no idea what you are doing, or you try to bleed it. Just a thought. -Jonas Even if you got zapped, it would only be a momentary discomfort. Lotsa voltage but notta lot of current... JT Refinance Rates at 2.7% $160,000 Mortgage $434/mo. No Hidden Fees- 3.04% APR! Get a Free Quote http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d0431795097563162ast05duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
From: James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, 3 December, 2010 2:19:22 Subject: Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service On Dec 2, 2010, at 7:10 PM, Yersinia wrote: On 12/2/10 7:54 PM, James Therrault wrote: On Dec 2, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Dan wrote: At 8:44 PM -0800 12/1/2010, Jonas Lopez wrote: a minor wise point here - if you are ever in your car and a storm causes electric overhead wires to fall on the car and you can see sparks outside -- DO NOT MOVE, DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR CAR - you are in no real danger provided your not a part of the ELECTRIC CIRCUIT Correct. - the metal of your car is ELECTRIFIED but the tires will prevent it from burning since they act as a nice insulator. Incorrect. The tires are not made of pure rubber. They are made from a blend of rubber, synthetics, metallics, etc. Then there are those pesky steel belts. IOW, your tires are *great* conductors. They are (luckily!) NOT insulators. You don't get electrocuted, as long as you're inside the car, because the current is passing thru the metal chassis, thru the tires, to ground. Some of the current is going thru you, but it's a trivial amount, as electricity prefers the better route - thru the tires to ground. It might be worth mentioning that the car acts as a Faraday (sp?) box whereas most of the voltage/current remains on the outer perimeter. The way out of this is NOT TO STEP OUT as that will complete the electrical circuit and you will be toast. Correct. If you were to step out of the car, while still in contact with the chasis, then the current would use you as the better route to ground. That would be bad. BUT if you can jump out BEING SURE YOUR TOTALLY IN THE AIR then you can exit the car with no problems. But to take that flying leap... Current jumps at the rate of about 10,000 volts per inch. You better clear the car completely, *and* all the wet pavement, by quite a bit... This is totally not recommended. The best thing to do is just sit tight until the power is turned off. Yesh. Personally, I think I'll just stay indoors during a thunder-and-lightning storm! :-O Hiding under the bed might offer even more security. JT _But what about the monsters that lurk under the bed? (I know it's true - I read it in Calvin Hobbes) Ted -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 3, 2010, at 3:05 AM, Ted Treen wrote: On Dec 2, 2010, at 7:10 PM, Yersinia wrote: On 12/2/10 7:54 PM, James Therrault wrote: Yesh. Personally, I think I'll just stay indoors during a thunder-and-lightning storm! :-O Hiding under the bed might offer even more security. JT _But what about the monsters that lurk under the bed? (I know it's true - I read it in Calvin Hobbes) Ted The only monster that would scare the belivin' daylights outta me is a sudden appearance of a Banana II PC! JT (Who sometimes yearns for the simplicity of yesteryear) How to Stay Asleep Cambridge Researchers have developed an all natural sleep aid just for you. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cf8e61de94e94abcbfst04duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
At 4:28 PM -0800 12/2/2010, Clark Martin wrote: The tires are not made of pure rubber. They are made from a blend of rubber, synthetics, metallics, etc. Then there are those pesky steel belts. IOW, your tires are *great* conductors. They are (luckily!) NOT insulators. Incorrect, tires are not great conductors, they are POOR conductors, what we in the trade would call Resistors. Back in the day, in electronics class in HS, we did some, um, tests, firing up things like CRTs and flourescent tubes from various sources. Tires do have some resistance... but not that much really. Slap a wire on a tire and it will fire a CRT right up. Yea, me made some big tesla coils too... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Changing the subject: WAS: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
OK then, to finish it off my 2¢ worth :-) If your car got hit by lightning, it will probably hold a charge. But you can drive it close to a lamppost or something, and open the door a bit to just touch that thing. That should discharge the car, and you have saved Sparky’s life!!! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Thunder 1 thunder...@mindspring.com wrote: It was suggested here that you put the new drive in a box and use it as an external drive; I agree that would be a good approach. At the very least, you could copy all your files to it and then delete the stuff that is filling up the internal HDD. Aside from the (most likely) higher throughput you'd get from attaching the new drive via the internal PATA bus versus externally via Firewire (or USB if your eMac supports it), there is another consideration. Recent hard drives, even PATA drives, are much faster than the drives made at the time the eMac was built. The newer drives use higher bit density platters which means they can move more data for same physical distance the platter travels. Attaching the drive externally and cloning/copying the existing drive would be a good place to start. But if you can find a way to attach the drive internally then I think you're likely to notice the system will feel a tad faster. Out of curiosity, what new 500 GB drive did you order from OWC to swap into the eMac? Which model/generation of eMac would you be working on? I see that the eMac's PATA controller range from ATA-66 up to ATA-100 depending on which one you have. www.everymac.com/systems/apple/emac/index-emac.html Also, for what it's worth here's yet another link to another description of how to replace the hard drive in an eMac. This one is from www.everymac.com. www.everymac.com/systems/apple/emac/faq/emac-replace-or-upgrade-hard-drive-expansion.html -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
At 8:44 PM -0800 12/1/2010, Jonas Lopez wrote: a minor wise point here - if you are ever in your car and a storm causes electric overhead wires to fall on the car and you can see sparks outside -- DO NOT MOVE, DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR CAR - you are in no real danger provided your not a part of the ELECTRIC CIRCUIT Correct. - the metal of your car is ELECTRIFIED but the tires will prevent it from burning since they act as a nice insulator. Incorrect. The tires are not made of pure rubber. They are made from a blend of rubber, synthetics, metallics, etc. Then there are those pesky steel belts. IOW, your tires are *great* conductors. They are (luckily!) NOT insulators. You don't get electrocuted, as long as you're inside the car, because the current is passing thru the metal chassis, thru the tires, to ground. Some of the current is going thru you, but it's a trivial amount, as electricity prefers the better route - thru the tires to ground. The way out of this is NOT TO STEP OUT as that will complete the electrical circuit and you will be toast. Correct. If you were to step out of the car, while still in contact with the chasis, then the current would use you as the better route to ground. That would be bad. BUT if you can jump out BEING SURE YOUR TOTALLY IN THE AIR then you can exit the car with no problems. But to take that flying leap... Current jumps at the rate of about 10,000 volts per inch. You better clear the car completely, *and* all the wet pavement, by quite a bit... This is totally not recommended. The best thing to do is just sit tight until the power is turned off. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 2, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Dan wrote: At 8:44 PM -0800 12/1/2010, Jonas Lopez wrote: a minor wise point here - if you are ever in your car and a storm causes electric overhead wires to fall on the car and you can see sparks outside -- DO NOT MOVE, DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR CAR - you are in no real danger provided your not a part of the ELECTRIC CIRCUIT Correct. - the metal of your car is ELECTRIFIED but the tires will prevent it from burning since they act as a nice insulator. Incorrect. The tires are not made of pure rubber. They are made from a blend of rubber, synthetics, metallics, etc. Then there are those pesky steel belts. IOW, your tires are *great* conductors. They are (luckily!) NOT insulators. Incorrect, tires are not great conductors, they are POOR conductors, what we in the trade would call Resistors. You don't get electrocuted, as long as you're inside the car, because the current is passing thru the metal chassis, thru the tires, to ground. Some of the current is going thru you, but it's a trivial amount, as electricity prefers the better route - thru the tires to ground. It doesn't matter whether the car frame is insulated or grounded, it's a Faraday cage (more or less) so the current (if the car is grounded) passes around you and the voltage (if the car is insulated) is equi-potential all around you so there is no voltage across your body. The way out of this is NOT TO STEP OUT as that will complete the electrical circuit and you will be toast. Correct. If you were to step out of the car, while still in contact with the chasis, then the current would use you as the better route to ground. That would be bad. BUT if you can jump out BEING SURE YOUR TOTALLY IN THE AIR then you can exit the car with no problems. But to take that flying leap... Current jumps at the rate of about 10,000 volts per inch. You better clear the car completely, *and* all the wet pavement, by quite a bit... This is totally not recommended. The best thing to do is just sit tight until the power is turned off. Agreed. The only time jumping might be recommended is if something worse is about to happen. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 2, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Dan wrote: At 8:44 PM -0800 12/1/2010, Jonas Lopez wrote: a minor wise point here - if you are ever in your car and a storm causes electric overhead wires to fall on the car and you can see sparks outside -- DO NOT MOVE, DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR CAR - you are in no real danger provided your not a part of the ELECTRIC CIRCUIT Correct. - the metal of your car is ELECTRIFIED but the tires will prevent it from burning since they act as a nice insulator. Incorrect. The tires are not made of pure rubber. They are made from a blend of rubber, synthetics, metallics, etc. Then there are those pesky steel belts. IOW, your tires are *great* conductors. They are (luckily!) NOT insulators. You don't get electrocuted, as long as you're inside the car, because the current is passing thru the metal chassis, thru the tires, to ground. Some of the current is going thru you, but it's a trivial amount, as electricity prefers the better route - thru the tires to ground. It might be worth mentioning that the car acts as a Faraday (sp?) box whereas most of the voltage/current remains on the outer perimeter. The way out of this is NOT TO STEP OUT as that will complete the electrical circuit and you will be toast. Correct. If you were to step out of the car, while still in contact with the chasis, then the current would use you as the better route to ground. That would be bad. BUT if you can jump out BEING SURE YOUR TOTALLY IN THE AIR then you can exit the car with no problems. But to take that flying leap... Current jumps at the rate of about 10,000 volts per inch. You better clear the car completely, *and* all the wet pavement, by quite a bit... This is totally not recommended. The best thing to do is just sit tight until the power is turned off. Refinance Now 3.4% FIXED $160,000 Mortgage: $547/mo. No Hidden Fees. No SSN Req. Get 4 Quotes! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cf83fd468aef58413dst02vuc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On 12/2/10 7:54 PM, James Therrault wrote: On Dec 2, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Dan wrote: At 8:44 PM -0800 12/1/2010, Jonas Lopez wrote: a minor wise point here - if you are ever in your car and a storm causes electric overhead wires to fall on the car and you can see sparks outside -- DO NOT MOVE, DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR CAR - you are in no real danger provided your not a part of the ELECTRIC CIRCUIT Correct. - the metal of your car is ELECTRIFIED but the tires will prevent it from burning since they act as a nice insulator. Incorrect. The tires are not made of pure rubber. They are made from a blend of rubber, synthetics, metallics, etc. Then there are those pesky steel belts. IOW, your tires are *great* conductors. They are (luckily!) NOT insulators. You don't get electrocuted, as long as you're inside the car, because the current is passing thru the metal chassis, thru the tires, to ground. Some of the current is going thru you, but it's a trivial amount, as electricity prefers the better route - thru the tires to ground. It might be worth mentioning that the car acts as a Faraday (sp?) box whereas most of the voltage/current remains on the outer perimeter. The way out of this is NOT TO STEP OUT as that will complete the electrical circuit and you will be toast. Correct. If you were to step out of the car, while still in contact with the chasis, then the current would use you as the better route to ground. That would be bad. BUT if you can jump out BEING SURE YOUR TOTALLY IN THE AIR then you can exit the car with no problems. But to take that flying leap... Current jumps at the rate of about 10,000 volts per inch. You better clear the car completely, *and* all the wet pavement, by quite a bit... This is totally not recommended. The best thing to do is just sit tight until the power is turned off. Yesh. Personally, I think I'll just stay indoors during a thunder-and-lightning storm! :-O Refinance Now 3.4% FIXED $160,000 Mortgage: $547/mo. No Hidden Fees. No SSN Req. Get 4 Quotes! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cf83fd468aef58413dst02vuc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 2, 2010, at 7:10 PM, Yersinia wrote: On 12/2/10 7:54 PM, James Therrault wrote: On Dec 2, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Dan wrote: At 8:44 PM -0800 12/1/2010, Jonas Lopez wrote: a minor wise point here - if you are ever in your car and a storm causes electric overhead wires to fall on the car and you can see sparks outside -- DO NOT MOVE, DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR CAR - you are in no real danger provided your not a part of the ELECTRIC CIRCUIT Correct. - the metal of your car is ELECTRIFIED but the tires will prevent it from burning since they act as a nice insulator. Incorrect. The tires are not made of pure rubber. They are made from a blend of rubber, synthetics, metallics, etc. Then there are those pesky steel belts. IOW, your tires are *great* conductors. They are (luckily!) NOT insulators. You don't get electrocuted, as long as you're inside the car, because the current is passing thru the metal chassis, thru the tires, to ground. Some of the current is going thru you, but it's a trivial amount, as electricity prefers the better route - thru the tires to ground. It might be worth mentioning that the car acts as a Faraday (sp?) box whereas most of the voltage/current remains on the outer perimeter. The way out of this is NOT TO STEP OUT as that will complete the electrical circuit and you will be toast. Correct. If you were to step out of the car, while still in contact with the chasis, then the current would use you as the better route to ground. That would be bad. BUT if you can jump out BEING SURE YOUR TOTALLY IN THE AIR then you can exit the car with no problems. But to take that flying leap... Current jumps at the rate of about 10,000 volts per inch. You better clear the car completely, *and* all the wet pavement, by quite a bit... This is totally not recommended. The best thing to do is just sit tight until the power is turned off. Yesh. Personally, I think I'll just stay indoors during a thunder-and-lightning storm! :-O Hiding under the bed might offer even more security. JT Globe Life Insurance $1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cf853bae2e8c4ec06est06vuc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
Just so you all know, yes I did strip all I could. Now NOW, If I am in this electricified car and I have a dog on a leash and I open the door to jump out but before I can, Sparky jumps out and I am still holding his leash, will this be the source of the name hot dog? JML. I'm a designated FREE SPIRIT HITCHHIKING on the Information Super Highway --- On Thu, 12/2/10, Yersinia yersi...@myfairpoint.net wrote: From: Yersinia yersi...@myfairpoint.net Subject: Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, December 2, 2010, 5:10 PM On 12/2/10 7:54 PM, James Therrault wrote: On Dec 2, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Dan wrote: At 8:44 PM -0800 12/1/2010, Jonas Lopez wrote: a minor wise point here - if you are ever in your car and a storm causes electric overhead wires to fall on the car and you can see sparks outside -- DO NOT MOVE, DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR CAR - you are in no real danger provided your not a part of the ELECTRIC CIRCUIT Correct. - the metal of your car is ELECTRIFIED but the tires will prevent it from burning since they act as a nice insulator. Incorrect. The tires are not made of pure rubber. They are made from a blend of rubber, synthetics, metallics, etc. Then there are those pesky steel belts. IOW, your tires are *great* conductors. They are (luckily!) NOT insulators. You don't get electrocuted, as long as you're inside the car, because the current is passing thru the metal chassis, thru the tires, to ground. Some of the current is going thru you, but it's a trivial amount, as electricity prefers the better route - thru the tires to ground. It might be worth mentioning that the car acts as a Faraday (sp?) box whereas most of the voltage/current remains on the outer perimeter. The way out of this is NOT TO STEP OUT as that will complete the electrical circuit and you will be toast. Correct. If you were to step out of the car, while still in contact with the chasis, then the current would use you as the better route to ground. That would be bad. BUT if you can jump out BEING SURE YOUR TOTALLY IN THE AIR then you can exit the car with no problems. But to take that flying leap... Current jumps at the rate of about 10,000 volts per inch. You better clear the car completely, *and* all the wet pavement, by quite a bit... This is totally not recommended. The best thing to do is just sit tight until the power is turned off. Yesh. Personally, I think I'll just stay indoors during a thunder-and-lightning storm! :-O -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Changing the subject: WAS: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
Isn't this waaay off-topic? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Changing the subject: WAS: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 2, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Paul Stamsen wrote: Isn't this waaay off-topic? It's just in the wrong list, but understandably so, since the G3-5 list is the largest and very few people read the iMac/eMac list. This is the better list to get a response, even if it's the wrong one. Isaac -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Changing the subject: WAS: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
Previously, at 11:24 PM -0500 12/2/10, as Isaac Smith so eloquently wrote: On Dec 2, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Paul Stamsen wrote: Isn't this waaay off-topic? It's just in the wrong list, but understandably so, since the G3-5 list is the largest and very few people read the iMac/eMac list. This is the better list to get a response, even if it's the wrong one. Isaac It also has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with computers. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Changing the subject: WAS: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 2, 2010, at 11:39 PM, Paul Stamsen wrote: Previously, at 11:24 PM -0500 12/2/10, as Isaac Smith so eloquently wrote: On Dec 2, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Paul Stamsen wrote: Isn't this waaay off-topic? It's just in the wrong list, but understandably so, since the G3-5 list is the largest and very few people read the iMac/eMac list. This is the better list to get a response, even if it's the wrong one. Isaac It also has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with computers. Well, the latest posts don't. (I hadn't checked them yet) Originally it was complaining about an Apple tech refusing to fix a G4 eMac, and people responding with how to go about a hard drive replacement. I don't know how that got to where it was in the last few posts. The nannies should jump in soon. Isaac -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
My sister-in-law has a G4 eMac that came with a 40-gig drive, which has filled up. The computer is perfectly functional, though, and serves all her needs; she just needs more storage room. I bought a 500-gig drive for her from OWC and intended to replace the old one with the new. Then on searching for instructions to swap out the drive online, I find numerous warnings that this is not a Mac intended for owners to open up. Certain interior parts that have to be removed are fragile and easily broken, and the electrical charge in the CRT is very dangerous. So says websites such as EveryMac. (Why, then, does OWC sell drives that are advertised as upgrades for an eMac? Just who is supposed to replace the drives, if the owner can't?) So, I called the local Apple store (in Albuquerque) to see if they'd put the drive in for me, and was told that we don't service older Macs. And that one is even dangerous to open up. Well, thanks for nothing, Apple. Just how new does a Mac have to be before an Apple technician will service it? Brand new, or nearly so? And do you really build computers so dangerous that even an Apple tech is afraid to open it up? What kind of a crummy company is this, anyway? Methinks they really need some competition. As it is, they obviously feel free to jettison owners of their products once those products have passed a certain age. Believe me, if i didn't have so much money invested in Apple products and software, my next computer would not be an Apple, after treatment like this. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 1, 2010, at 5:09 PM, Tom wrote: And do you really build computers so dangerous that even an Apple tech is afraid to open it up? Yes, large CRT's can be very dangerous to work on. Televisions, monitors and all-in-one systems like the eMac need special precautions to be taken. This has been discussed numerous times on this and the iMac lists. IN general leave the thing unplugged for at least 12 hours (and preferably longer), and use care don't go poking aroiund anything plugged into the CRT. Here's guides that'll get you to where you need to be: http://www.wilko.com/emac/ http://lowendmac.com/macdan/md07/1114.html -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 1, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Tom wrote: My sister-in-law has a G4 eMac that came with a 40-gig drive, which has filled up. The computer is perfectly functional, though, and serves all her needs; she just needs more storage room. I bought a 500-gig drive for her from OWC and intended to replace the old one with the new. Then on searching for instructions to swap out the drive online, I find numerous warnings that this is not a Mac intended for owners to open up. Certain interior parts that have to be removed are fragile and easily broken, and the electrical charge in the CRT is very dangerous. So says websites such as EveryMac. (Why, then, does OWC sell drives that are advertised as upgrades for an eMac? Just who is supposed to replace the drives, if the owner can't?) So, I called the local Apple store (in Albuquerque) to see if they'd put the drive in for me, and was told that we don't service older Macs. And that one is even dangerous to open up. Well, thanks for nothing, Apple. Just how new does a Mac have to be before an Apple technician will service it? Brand new, or nearly so? And do you really build computers so dangerous that even an Apple tech is afraid to open it up? What kind of a crummy company is this, anyway? Methinks they really need some competition. As it is, they obviously feel free to jettison owners of their products once those products have passed a certain age. Believe me, if i didn't have so much money invested in Apple products and software, my next computer would not be an Apple, after treatment like this. Not that hard to do Tom if you take care. I think the reason for the warnings is because some people can't even hold a screwdriver by the correct end.:-) http://lancej.blogspot.com/search/label/eMac John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 1, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Tom wrote: My sister-in-law has a G4 eMac that came with a 40-gig drive, which has filled up. The computer is perfectly functional, though, and serves all her needs; she just needs more storage room. I bought a 500-gig drive for her from OWC and intended to replace the old one with the new. Then on searching for instructions to swap out the drive online, I find numerous warnings that this is not a Mac intended for owners to open up. Certain interior parts that have to be removed are fragile and easily broken, and the electrical charge in the CRT is very dangerous. So says websites such as EveryMac. (Why, then, does OWC sell drives that are advertised as upgrades for an eMac? Just who is supposed to replace the drives, if the owner can't?) So, I called the local Apple store (in Albuquerque) to see if they'd put the drive in for me, and was told that we don't service older Macs. And that one is even dangerous to open up. Well, thanks for nothing, Apple. Just how new does a Mac have to be before an Apple technician will service it? Brand new, or nearly so? And do you really build computers so dangerous that even an Apple tech is afraid to open it up? What kind of a crummy company is this, anyway? Methinks they really need some competition. As it is, they obviously feel free to jettison owners of their products once those products have passed a certain age. Believe me, if i didn't have so much money invested in Apple products and software, my next computer would not be an Apple, after treatment like this. Sorry you've been given the runaround. Actually, replacing the hard drive in an eMac is not that difficult, assuming you've got the patience of Job. Basically, you unplug it and put it face down on a soft surface such as a towel. (If the eMac has an Airport card, it's best to remove it first by pulling down the optical drive door, removing the two screws holding the black plate in place, disconnecting the antenna cable and pulling out the Airport card.) Using a 2.5 mm hex driver, remove all the chrome screws. Do the same with the Phillips head screws (the screw in the RAM door should be captive, so don't break something trying to extract it). Then slap the case to loosen it and lift it up. BE CAREFUL! You don't want to rip the thin wires out of the power button. Holding the case up with your left hand (if you've got a helper, let him/her hold the case), stick your right hand in and gently disconnect the cable from the button. I find this easiest to do while sitting down. Finish removing the case and set it aside Keep your hands away from the CRT and anything on the top side of the eMac. The service manual suggests discharging the CRT, but it's not necessary when doing a hard drive replacement as long as you don't touch anything on the exposed CRT side of the eMac. Spend a few minutes looking at the eMac. Basically, there are two parts. The first is what Apple calls the Analog/Video Assembly. This is the CRT and all the stuff directly attached to it. The second is what Apple calls the Digital Assembly, which includes the optical drive, the hard drive, the logic board and the down converter. What you have to do is remove the Digital Assembly in order to gain access to the hard drive. Before you do that, go to this web site: http://lancej.blogspot.com/2006/01/macintosh-upgrading-700-mhz-emac.html There are other places online that also tell how to replace a hard drive, as well as offer suggestions for migrating data from old to new drive. Simply Google eMac hard drive replacement. Be aware that exact instructions for your sister-in-law's eMac may not be available. But the general principles apply to all eMacs as the hard drive is in the same location. To remove the Digital Assembly, first remove the fan's four screws and disconnect the fan. Put it aside. Remove the four screws holding the fan bracket in place and put them on your work surface in the order in which you removed them; CAUTION: the screws are a mix of fine and coarse threads, so remember which came from which location. Move the bracket up and to the right. Next, remove the 4 screws holding the silvery shield in place, then tap the top of the shield on each side to pop it loose. Now your job is to disconnect all the connectors on the bottom left, as well as the video cable on the top left. You may or may not have to remove the speakers, depending on the model of eMac. Now you have to go around the periphery of the Digital Assembly and remove less than a dozen screws. Take care to note how the video cable you disconnected is routed, as well as how the power button cable is routed through the shield. Once all the screws have been removed, grab hold of the assembly and pull it gently but with some force toward you. What you are doing is disconnecting the Digital Assembly from one or two blind mate connectors (depending on model). Assuming
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 1, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Tom wrote: I bought a 500-gig drive for her from OWC and intended to replace the old one with the new. Then on searching for instructions to swap out the drive online, I find numerous warnings that this is not a Mac intended for owners to open up. I just replaced a HD in an eMac and I was impressed with the quality of the construction. Since the eMac was the final CRT Mac, and Apple is the highest quality AIO manufacturer, it would seem that the eMac may represent the pinnacle of an era in computing that has now past us by forever. It wasn't too difficult to replace the HD in an eMac, and not too dangerous in my opinion. The disassembly is in units, and the number of screws for each unit is small, usually 4 or less, so you can get to the HD with less than 20 screws total, and it's relatively simple. Once I understood how it was assembled, I could get to the HD in less than 10 minutes, and a total HD replacement would be less than 30 minutes for me. These old eMacs evidently overclock well, and also can be quieted down with a fan controller. I'd strongly recommend you max out the RAM if you're going to use one of these old eMacs. Personally I'd never use an eMac, I get bad headaches with CRTs, and the cost of electricity for running a CRT means the break-even payback period for a more energy efficient LCD is only 3 years, which is one reason you won't see any CRTs in businesses any longer, they cost too much money in electricity to run compared to LCDs. One thing you might want to check is the HD type. Most 500GB drives are SATA drives, and the eMac takes an older PATA HD. It'd be a real bummer to open it up only to find you've got the wrong HD. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Tom tba...@nmia.com wrote: So, I called the local Apple store (in Albuquerque) to see if they'd put the drive in for me, and was told that we don't service older Macs. And that one is even dangerous to open up. Well, thanks for nothing, Apple. Just how new does a Mac have to be before an Apple technician will service it? Brand new, or nearly so? And do you really build computers so dangerous that even an Apple tech is afraid to open it up? What kind of a crummy company is this, anyway? Methinks they really need some competition. As it is, they obviously feel free to jettison owners of their products once those products have passed a certain age. __ Well there are a lot of loyal Macheads thinking the same thing. but with so many new ones spending big bucks on the glamorous new models do you think Apple cares? A month or so ago some other revelations of the new Mac order were made. Their lack of care about low end users or long time users is classic hubris. It deserves an equitable consumer response. Nothing lasts forever. Despite all the Old macs live for ever rah-rah BS still seen here. A warm wet cloth on the eyes should clear out the illusions. The smiling friendly Mac Guy has become demented. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
At 4:09 PM -0800 12/1/2010, Tom wrote: My sister-in-law has a G4 eMac that came with a 40-gig drive Great machine! A wonderful workhorse! I bought a 500-gig drive for her from OWC and intended to replace the old one with the new. Then on searching for instructions to swap out the drive online, I find numerous warnings pt. No big deal. See other's replies. There are directions for doing the replacement in various places. So, I called the local Apple store (in Albuquerque) to see if they'd put the drive in for me, and was told that we don't service older Macs. And that one is even dangerous to open up. Buttheads. Well, thanks for nothing, Apple. Just how new does a Mac have to be before an Apple technician will service it? Brand new, or nearly so? My local Apple Store would do it. Saw 'em fix an eMac just a few weeks ago. I think it depends on the expertise of the techs working there. If you don't feel comfortable doing the work yourself,,, there are bound to be other dealers or repair shops in your area that would be willing. Check around. Might even be someone on this list in your area that could help. Or,,, you could punt. Just put the new drive in an external box and plug it into the eMac. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
On Dec 1, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Tom wrote: My sister-in-law has a G4 eMac that came with a 40-gig drive, which has filled up. The computer is perfectly functional, though, and serves all her needs; she just needs more storage room. I bought a 500-gig drive for her from OWC and intended to replace the old one with the new. Then on searching for instructions to swap out the drive online, I find numerous warnings that this is not a Mac intended for owners to open up. Certain interior parts that have to be removed are fragile and easily broken, and the electrical charge in the CRT is very dangerous. So says websites such as EveryMac. (Why, then, does OWC sell drives that are advertised as upgrades for an eMac? Just who is supposed to replace the drives, if the owner can't?) So, I called the local Apple store (in Albuquerque) to see if they'd put the drive in for me, and was told that we don't service older Macs. And that one is even dangerous to open up. Well, thanks for nothing, Apple. Just how new does a Mac have to be before an Apple technician will service it? Brand new, or nearly so? And do you really build computers so dangerous that even an Apple tech is afraid to open it up? What kind of a crummy company is this, anyway? Methinks they really need some competition. As it is, they obviously feel free to jettison owners of their products once those products have passed a certain age. Believe me, if i didn't have so much money invested in Apple products and software, my next computer would not be an Apple, after treatment like this. Any independent certified mac technician should be able to do this. JT Get Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat! http://www.netzero.net/freeemail?refcd=NZTAGOUT1FREM0210 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service
DANGER - wrong info. I was fixing BW sets in 1951, later went to school for RCA COLOR do not, NOT think for a minute that the below info is safe!!! Any well built CRT will hold a 20,000 Volt charge on the 2nd Anode for weeks!!! Never take a chance with this voltage, just discharge it and go on! Find the wire that goes to the side of the bell of the CRT and using a simple 10 inch long plastic handle flat blade screwdriver carefully insert it under the 2 inch rubber insulator cover so as to make contact with the metal button it is covering = a minor wise point here - if you are ever in your car and a storm causes electric overhead wires to fall on the car and you can see sparks outside -- DO NOT MOVE, DO NOT GET OUT OF YOUR CAR - you are in no real danger provided your not a part of the ELECTRIC CIRCUIT - the metal of your car is ELECTRIFIED but the tires will prevent it from burning since they act as a nice insulator. The way out of this is NOT TO STEP OUT as that will complete the electrical circuit and you will be toast. BUT if you can jump out BEING SURE YOUR TOTALLY IN THE AIR then you can exit the car with no problems. This is the same way RADIO AND TV TOWERS are serviced during the time they are being fed live signals = you MUST JUMP ON and do your service - change the bulbs or what ever, then JUMP OFF. Costs way too much to turn off the transmitter, just jump, done it 1000 times. BACK TO FIXING THE MAC CRT; Stick the screwdriver under the rubber cap so as to make contact with the metal wire of the 2nd anode, now your going to need a simple jumper attached to the METAL CHASSIS and using one with alligator clips makes this very easy, but you can do it by just wrapping several turns of small 22 gage wire round any easy metal part of the chassis, then wrap some of this exposed wire around a SECOND SCREWDRIVER, now touch one driver to the other and you will see and hear A NICE BIG SPARK AND A POP. Just hold the wired drivers touching each other for a few seconds, YOUR DONE. The CRT is now discharged and is of no further danger. Now, if your a kid dad, attach the alligator clip to the 2nd anode and a long well insulated wire terminated in a metal screwdriver. Now you can find the best and biggest night crawlers (worms used for fishing) and lizards and snakes, all will get shocked by the charge from the 2nd anode of the CRT. If the voltage goes to low to arc, turn the Mac on for a minute to recharge the power and continue fishing. Have fun, JML --- On Wed, 12/1/10, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: From: Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu Subject: Re: Ungrateful Apple abandons older Mac service To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 4:26 PM On Dec 1, 2010, at 5:09 PM, Tom wrote: And do you really build computers so dangerous that even an Apple tech is afraid to open it up? Yes, large CRT's can be very dangerous to work on. Televisions, monitors and all-in-one systems like the eMac need special precautions to be taken. This has been discussed numerous times on this and the iMac lists. IN general leave the thing unplugged for at least 12 hours (and preferably longer), and use care don't go poking aroiund anything plugged into the CRT. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
