Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi. I still have my music organized in folders and sub folders. If you add a track to the itunes library for any reason then sure, it will tag it etc but all my music and stuff still stays where I put it. There are also a few media players for mac such as vlc. If there is something I want to do in windows that I can't do on the mac there is vmware or bootcamp. regards Maria and crew from australia email: bubbygirl1...@gmail.com check out www.95-the-mix.com where we play lots of great music On 12/09/2013, at 5:48 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I'll think about that. For me, I just don't see why! I should! upgrade other than to please microsoft's expanding pockets, (and in fairness microsoft should've included proppper backwards compatibility, after all it's not as if they don't have the money for developement). In fairness I'd need to investigate the bennifits of mac as an os, though having been quite impressed with vo's performance on the iphone I do know usage won't be as problematic as it would be with the irritating post xp interface. The only thing that puts me off mac is the stupidity with file management for audio files, (I've found a way to get folder structures on the iphone using playlists but it's not what I'd want all the time, and the fact that I need something that opens office and rtf documents. I'd also be concerned that if, as people keep claiming newer windows versions have upgraded this, latest that and more numbers in the other someone would! be more likely to make something I wanted to do on windows than on mac, (particularly since I already have access to a lot of mac stuff on ios). All the best, Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dark, Yes, you can run a Windows XP virtual machine on Mac. You can get VMWare Workstation to run XP in a virtual machine, or you can use Boot Camp to setup a multiboot with XP if you want to go that way for running your old Windows apps and games. Either way the Mac allows you to keep your old Windos OS while running the very latest version of Mac OS and apps. P.S. FYI. It is Linux, L i n u x, not Lynux, L y n u x. Cheers! On 9/11/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: That is likely what I will end up doing eventually, can you run an xp vm on a mac? I see myself more likely to go with mac than lynux, since mac has more options for access etc than windows, unless something changes. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
My point was more that there's no software that was made unusable by win7 that wasn't originally written for windows 9x. Essentially that all xp software I can think of runs on win7. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 21:12:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi John, Well, to start with Entombed was not designed to run on Windows 9x. It uses a bunch of fairly new components like .NET, SAPI 5, and the XNA Framework and I am pretty sure it wouldn't run on Windows 9x as it is just too old. I'm pretty sure 3D Velocity won't work on Windows 9x either. For pretty much the same reasons as Entombed. It uses a fairly up to date version of .NET, uses SlimDX, and I don't think there is a way to get it to run on 9x. Another case in point is Eric the Cleric. It doesn't even run on XP that well let alone Windows 9x. Although, I am under the impression Breakerbox will be fixing XP compatibility. The point being there is a lot of accessible games and probably a lot of other mainstream software that simply will not run on Windows 9x. Its definitely had its days numbered. XP will eventually be the same way once libraries, APIs, and other things drifts away from supporting it. Cheers! On 9/12/13, john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net wrote: I'd second this. I can't think of any software, let alone games, that runs well on xp, does not run on windows 7, and wasn't designed for windows 9x. If you have specific data, please share with us. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
when my new ram memory comes in the mail I too will be giving this laptop 2 more gigs of ram so it too can run all kinds of virtual machines. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 09:11 PM, shaun everiss wrote: hmmm we just can't win eh? its why I still do use xp for now. eventually my plan is to have at least for home a system dedicated to running among other things vms of all sorts so I don't have to share with a laptop or something but for now I still have the capabilities to handle that all. At 11:29 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: Hi Shaun, that's because DirectSound 8 is broken on Windows 7. Shades of Doom, GMA Tank Commander, and Sarah all have audio problems with Windows 7 and Windows 8 because DirectSound lost its 3d virtualization when Microsoft updated their mixer support. Microsoft's answer is upgrade to XAudio2, but of course no one is doing that yet. However, XAudio2 has a few bugs of its own I am not happy about, but anyway the issue with Shades of Doom etc is Directsound. Cheers! On 9/12/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: I could get shades of doom working but all the sounds sounded straight in front of me or behind me yes I could play it without the panning effects but it would be quite hard to do so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hello I know that Win 7 will run MS Office 03. It's what I use at school. They have Win 7 and there running MS Office 03. bfn James -- From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:58 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Charles, The main thing you would lose, assuming you got a new 64-bit system, is old 16-bit Dos support. This means old Dos games like the PCs Panzers in North Africa, Kick Boxing, PCs Monopoly, and Any Night Football wouldn't work. Also Eamon Deluxe doesn't work on Windows 8 either. However, the majority of audio games such as those from GMA, Draconis, L-Works, etc will work on Windows 8 once you reconfigure User Account Control, install VB 6, and basically install some older components that don't come with Windows 8. So in terms of older accessible games the loss is rather small. As for the rest of the software you are running that depends on how new it is, and when it was last updated etc. Obviously, there are some things like Jaws that needs to be running at least version 14 to work reasonable with Windows 8. Openbook needs to be upgraded to version 9 or later for newer versions of Windows as well. If you use say Nero you'll need a fairly current version as anything released before 8.0 or so won't work at all on Windows 7 or Windows 8. As far as Microsoft Office I think the minimum version that will run on Windows 8 is Office 2003. I don't know since I have Office 2007 and it works okay on Windows 8. I expect you may have to upgrade some software, but that comes with the territory. Many things will work okay, and some things won't. However, when it specifically coms to audio games most games I have tried I've managed to get working on Windows 8. Ironically, the only audio game I couldn't get working was STFC, the version on my web site, but I have a new one in development to take care of that problem. :D Cheers! On 9/12/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Posts like this one are convincing. We get your firsthand experiences with the newer technology and why you think upgrading is worth it. On the other side, what games will not work with this platform? You've stated what we would gain. What would we lose? And what will this upgrade cost as far as the hardware we must buy to accommodate it? Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Tom, I couldn't resist responding to this with a little humor, and a prime example of why Microsoft is so far behind. My responses throughout your message… On Sep 12, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: *snip* The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the name of the program. *snip* Mac OS X has had this feature since 2005. It's called Spotlight, and can be invoked at any time with a single key command. *snip* Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing through all the open Windows on the Taskbar. *snip* Mac has had this feature since about 2001 or so, can't remember the exact date. *snip* Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc. *snip* Mac has had this feature since at least 2005…probably longer. *snip* A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time. Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate it to your computer by voice? *snip* Mac has had this since 2012, and theirs is powered by Nuance, the same company which powers Dragon Dictate. *snip* Something else I particularly like about Windows 8 is the introduction of apps to the Windows OS. Apps are basically miniature programs that run in the background all the time, and have a specific feature such as displaying today's headline news, the weather, stock reports, and various other things of that sort. Sure, I recognize apps aren't for everyone, but for me personally I'd sooner have them than not have them because I can just click on the weather app, for example, and get an idea of the current temp, a weather forecast, and not have to go online to look that information up. *snip* Mac has had this since 2005. They are called Widgets. *snip* Although, I don't have a lot of experience with touchscreens and Windows 8 I know Windows 8 has touchscreen support, and NVDA 2013.2 works with touchscreens too. I fully expect the next desktop or laptop I buy will have a touchscreen and I like the idea of simply pointing at the screen and double tapping an icon rather than tabbing all over creation to find it and then pressing enter etc. *snip* Mac has had multi-touch trackpads, which are more practical for desk/laptop use, since about 2008. Try holding your arms up for significant periods to touch a screen which is vertically positioned in front of you,a nd they are going to get very tired, very fast. Touch screens are not the best way to use a PC. However, VoiceOver on the Mac will turn your trackpad into a virtual touch screen, and, if you wish, you can use your Mac in a very similar way to how you use your iPhone or iPad. VoiceOver has done this since 2009. *snip* Add to those features that Windows 7 and Windows 8 have better security features such as User Account Control, Windows Defender, Microsoft Security Essentials, I felt upgrading was well worth the money I paid for it. That might not personally be worth it to you, but it was for me and a lot of others. *snip* Mac has many similar technologies, including Gatekeeper, and a kill switch that can disable malicious software remotely. I just find it sad how far Microsoft is behind in technology these days. I have some fun at their expense at times, but the industry is better with competition, and Microsoft isn't that. Fortunately, Android is at least, despite its infinite number of problems, a legitimate competitor. You have to admit, it is
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Now there is a joke if not a real slap in the face. you might want to think about this one Thomas. Yes give it xp support and build for the other version as you wish. Charles and those wanting to stay on xp can. Now here is the good part. Charles stated that they will pay for the better version even if they already own the game for xp. you know and I know that will never happen. The crowd on this list gripe about releases, requirements and any problem or bug that comes up with a game. So like other companies build for what is being sold. When there boxes die or a virus hits from lack of support and they have to get new. You won't have to listen to them say but it only works on xp. I have to give you some credit here Tom, because your one of the few programmers out there that tries to hear from all. Your willingness to take suggestions. Most out there program and support what they write. They don't let the community tell them what goes in a game, how to sell or what platform to build for. So the community should be grateful for you, but when they do have to buy that copy that runs on current versions of ops. That is when they will be sending the hate mail and those on this list know who you are! So just stop the thread because xp users are going to stay. The rest of us that moved on will remember we are not paying for the game twice. At 06:39 PM 9/12/2013, you wrote: That's why there should be a version that will take advantage of the newer technology in the works, slowly being developed, as well as one that will work on XP that is more quickly developed. If we like the XP compatible version and we must migrate to the newer OS, we will gladly pay for the newer version that will probably have better performance and more options. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Charles, Smile. I was only joking. I wouldn't actually do that precisely for that reason. USA Games needs to make money, and unfortunately we are held hostage to a user base that will not upgrade to a newer OS for whatever reason. The only thing we can do as developers is try to support both as for as long as we can , and when that is no longer possible then we have to make a judgment based on what will be best for the product long term rather than the short term. I can tell you right now selecting XP because it has the most customers right now is not good in the long term, because in five to ten years that situation will likely change. People will be running something a lot newer than XP, and they will thank me for supporting the new platform rather than developing for XP and not taking in account any thought about tomorrow. Let's give you an example, and I am truly interested to get your point of view on this. I know you bought Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge through preorder sales. You'll be getting copies of them when it is released. However, imagine that PC you have breaks down and you decide to go out and buy a new computer with Windows 8 on it. How would you feel if I said, sorry, it doesn't run on Windows 8? You said you wanted me to develop it for XP so I didn't take any consideration for Windows 8 users. Now, how would you feel? Would you have to eat your words about XP support once the shoe is firmly on the other foot? Cheers! On 9/12/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: If you support 64 bit systems only, wiping out all XP users entirely, you've just wiped out your income from would-be customers. Kill your business in order to keep up with current technology? Not smart at all. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
also Linux users have enjoyed those features for years also since 2005 or so onwards as well. Touch-screen support in ubuntu? not yet. but if you want it you can get a modern jellybean android tablet a lot cheaper than an iPad. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/13/2013 09:43 AM, Draconis wrote: Hi Tom, I couldn't resist responding to this with a little humor, and a prime example of why Microsoft is so far behind. My responses throughout your message… On Sep 12, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: *snip* The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the name of the program. *snip* Mac OS X has had this feature since 2005. It's called Spotlight, and can be invoked at any time with a single key command. *snip* Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing through all the open Windows on the Taskbar. *snip* Mac has had this feature since about 2001 or so, can't remember the exact date. *snip* Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc. *snip* Mac has had this feature since at least 2005…probably longer. *snip* A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time. Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate it to your computer by voice? *snip* Mac has had this since 2012, and theirs is powered by Nuance, the same company which powers Dragon Dictate. *snip* Something else I particularly like about Windows 8 is the introduction of apps to the Windows OS. Apps are basically miniature programs that run in the background all the time, and have a specific feature such as displaying today's headline news, the weather, stock reports, and various other things of that sort. Sure, I recognize apps aren't for everyone, but for me personally I'd sooner have them than not have them because I can just click on the weather app, for example, and get an idea of the current temp, a weather forecast, and not have to go online to look that information up. *snip* Mac has had this since 2005. They are called Widgets. *snip* Although, I don't have a lot of experience with touchscreens and Windows 8 I know Windows 8 has touchscreen support, and NVDA 2013.2 works with touchscreens too. I fully expect the next desktop or laptop I buy will have a touchscreen and I like the idea of simply pointing at the screen and double tapping an icon rather than tabbing all over creation to find it and then pressing enter etc. *snip* Mac has had multi-touch trackpads, which are more practical for desk/laptop use, since about 2008. Try holding your arms up for significant periods to touch a screen which is vertically positioned in front of you,a nd they are going to get very tired, very fast. Touch screens are not the best way to use a PC. However, VoiceOver on the Mac will turn your trackpad into a virtual touch screen, and, if you wish, you can use your Mac in a very similar way to how you use your iPhone or iPad. VoiceOver has done this since 2009. *snip* Add to those features that Windows 7 and Windows 8 have better security features such as User Account Control, Windows Defender, Microsoft Security Essentials, I felt upgrading was well worth the money I paid for it. That might not personally be worth it to you, but it was for me and a lot of others. *snip* Mac has many similar technologies, including Gatekeeper, and a kill switch that can disable malicious software remotely. I just find it sad how far Microsoft is behind in technology
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hello Trouble All I have to say is well put. bfn James -- From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 8:32 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Now there is a joke if not a real slap in the face. you might want to think about this one Thomas. Yes give it xp support and build for the other version as you wish. Charles and those wanting to stay on xp can. Now here is the good part. Charles stated that they will pay for the better version even if they already own the game for xp. you know and I know that will never happen. The crowd on this list gripe about releases, requirements and any problem or bug that comes up with a game. So like other companies build for what is being sold. When there boxes die or a virus hits from lack of support and they have to get new. You won't have to listen to them say but it only works on xp. I have to give you some credit here Tom, because your one of the few programmers out there that tries to hear from all. Your willingness to take suggestions. Most out there program and support what they write. They don't let the community tell them what goes in a game, how to sell or what platform to build for. So the community should be grateful for you, but when they do have to buy that copy that runs on current versions of ops. That is when they will be sending the hate mail and those on this list know who you are! So just stop the thread because xp users are going to stay. The rest of us that moved on will remember we are not paying for the game twice. At 06:39 PM 9/12/2013, you wrote: That's why there should be a version that will take advantage of the newer technology in the works, slowly being developed, as well as one that will work on XP that is more quickly developed. If we like the XP compatible version and we must migrate to the newer OS, we will gladly pay for the newer version that will probably have better performance and more options. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Charles, Smile. I was only joking. I wouldn't actually do that precisely for that reason. USA Games needs to make money, and unfortunately we are held hostage to a user base that will not upgrade to a newer OS for whatever reason. The only thing we can do as developers is try to support both as for as long as we can , and when that is no longer possible then we have to make a judgment based on what will be best for the product long term rather than the short term. I can tell you right now selecting XP because it has the most customers right now is not good in the long term, because in five to ten years that situation will likely change. People will be running something a lot newer than XP, and they will thank me for supporting the new platform rather than developing for XP and not taking in account any thought about tomorrow. Let's give you an example, and I am truly interested to get your point of view on this. I know you bought Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge through preorder sales. You'll be getting copies of them when it is released. However, imagine that PC you have breaks down and you decide to go out and buy a new computer with Windows 8 on it. How would you feel if I said, sorry, it doesn't run on Windows 8? You said you wanted me to develop it for XP so I didn't take any consideration for Windows 8 users. Now, how would you feel? Would you have to eat your words about XP support once the shoe is firmly on the other foot? Cheers! On 9/12/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: If you support 64 bit systems only, wiping out all XP users entirely, you've just wiped out your income from would-be customers. Kill your business in order to keep up with current technology? Not smart at all. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
You can get cheaper tablets than the iPad, but you get what you pay for. There's a reason why more than 90% of tablet web traffic is from iPads and not Android…people don't actually use their Android tablets in general. Eventually, hopefully, someone will make a decent Android tablet, but that hasn't happened yet. And that doesn't even take into consideration that 80% of mobile malware is Android and only 0.7 targets iOS. Android is a death trap at the moment, but I hope that Google cleans that up sooner than later. Google needs to get serious about security. On Sep 13, 2013, at 10:29 AM, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: also Linux users have enjoyed those features for years also since 2005 or so onwards as well. Touch-screen support in ubuntu? not yet. but if you want it you can get a modern jellybean android tablet a lot cheaper than an iPad. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/13/2013 09:43 AM, Draconis wrote: Hi Tom, I couldn't resist responding to this with a little humor, and a prime example of why Microsoft is so far behind. My responses throughout your message… On Sep 12, 2013, at 2:49 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: *snip* The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the name of the program. *snip* Mac OS X has had this feature since 2005. It's called Spotlight, and can be invoked at any time with a single key command. *snip* Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing through all the open Windows on the Taskbar. *snip* Mac has had this feature since about 2001 or so, can't remember the exact date. *snip* Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc. *snip* Mac has had this feature since at least 2005…probably longer. *snip* A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time. Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate it to your computer by voice? *snip* Mac has had this since 2012, and theirs is powered by Nuance, the same company which powers Dragon Dictate. *snip* Something else I particularly like about Windows 8 is the introduction of apps to the Windows OS. Apps are basically miniature programs that run in the background all the time, and have a specific feature such as displaying today's headline news, the weather, stock reports, and various other things of that sort. Sure, I recognize apps aren't for everyone, but for me personally I'd sooner have them than not have them because I can just click on the weather app, for example, and get an idea of the current temp, a weather forecast, and not have to go online to look that information up. *snip* Mac has had this since 2005. They are called Widgets. *snip* Although, I don't have a lot of experience with touchscreens and Windows 8 I know Windows 8 has touchscreen support, and NVDA 2013.2 works with touchscreens too. I fully expect the next desktop or laptop I buy will have a touchscreen and I like the idea of simply pointing at the screen and double tapping an icon rather than tabbing all over creation to find it and then pressing enter etc. *snip* Mac has had multi-touch trackpads, which are more practical for desk/laptop use, since about 2008. Try holding your arms up for significant periods to touch a screen which is vertically positioned in front of you,a nd they are going to get very tired, very fast. Touch screens are not the best way to use a PC.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi trouble, Hahaha! I know. I seriously would not consider charging for upgrades unless it was really major because although I like making money I wouldn't feel obligated to charge for basic operating system support for the lifetime of a certain product. Usually I feel something like that needs to be included in the price of purchase unless, and only unless, it requires a major rewrite or extensive upgrade of some kind. For example, take Change Reaction. The original version was written in Visual Basic, is running very near the end of compatibility with modern Windows releases, so Draconis rewrote the game from the ground up using their new engine which was designed for many modern operating systems. Well, the $9.99 upgrade fee is more than reasonable considering the time and work involved in the rewrite of the game as well as new features and additional game play. So I would do the same if I had a game that needs that sort of upgrade. However, if it is dropping support for one library like DirectSound and choosing something else like OpenAL, XAudio2, FMOD Ex, Bass, whatever I don't think I would charge for that unless there were licensing fees involved because I don't believe users should be punished for upgrading their computer and operating system. Free patches and support should be provided as long as possible. That's just how I am. Plus I don't think I'd get the money if I did charge upgrade fees. Cheers! On 9/13/13, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Now there is a joke if not a real slap in the face. you might want to think about this one Thomas. Yes give it xp support and build for the other version as you wish. Charles and those wanting to stay on xp can. Now here is the good part. Charles stated that they will pay for the better version even if they already own the game for xp. you know and I know that will never happen. The crowd on this list gripe about releases, requirements and any problem or bug that comes up with a game. So like other companies build for what is being sold. When there boxes die or a virus hits from lack of support and they have to get new. You won't have to listen to them say but it only works on xp. I have to give you some credit here Tom, because your one of the few programmers out there that tries to hear from all. Your willingness to take suggestions. Most out there program and support what they write. They don't let the community tell them what goes in a game, how to sell or what platform to build for. So the community should be grateful for you, but when they do have to buy that copy that runs on current versions of ops. That is when they will be sending the hate mail and those on this list know who you are! So just stop the thread because xp users are going to stay. The rest of us that moved on will remember we are not paying for the game twice. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Josh, I don't know if you have ever owned or used an Android Tablet, but I personally think they aren't worth the price. The accessibility is quite poor compared to iPods, Android is wide open to viruses and other malware, and they can't be updated as easily as an iPod. As someone use to say, you buy cheap you get cheap. In this case that holds true. Cheers! On 9/13/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: also Linux users have enjoyed those features for years also since 2005 or so onwards as well. Touch-screen support in ubuntu? not yet. but if you want it you can get a modern jellybean android tablet a lot cheaper than an iPad. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Josh, I know it is quite sad that Mac OS has had many of the features Microsoft is just now getting to in Windows 7 and Windows 8. It goes to show that Microsoft has been caught up in Windows XP far too long, and now Microsoft is far behind the competition in terms of features. They are just now getting to features Mac OS has had for five or more years, and it is clear that Windows 8 is really Microsoft's attempt to catch up. For what it is worth Linux has come a long ways as well the last couple of years and Ubuntu has tried to become more Mac-like with their Unity desktop. Many of the features present in Mac OS and Windows 8 are showing up on the Unity desktop. For example the Dash allows users to search and run programs just by pressing the super key, AKA the Windows key, and then typing in the name of a file or program to run. The Launcher is a bit like the Task bar which allows users to lock favorites to the Launcher instead of searching for them in the Dash. There is no doubt though in anyone's mind where all these new ideas came from and they all came from Apple. So I too have to laugh a bit at other operating systems, because they are so far behind Apple and its clear that Apple is the big innovator today. Its one of the major factors why my wife and I are looking into switching to Apple when we have the money to invest in new laptops in the next couple of years or so. Cheers! On 9/13/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: Hi Tom, I couldn't resist responding to this with a little humor, and a prime example of why Microsoft is so far behind. My responses throughout your message… --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
hI l o l cheap? I bought a Android 2 years ago. It cost me $450, and I could never get it to work for me. It was my own fault for not doing the research be for I bought it. It was the most ecspansive paper whait I ever bought. bfn James -- From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 1:23 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Josh, I don't know if you have ever owned or used an Android Tablet, but I personally think they aren't worth the price. The accessibility is quite poor compared to iPods, Android is wide open to viruses and other malware, and they can't be updated as easily as an iPod. As someone use to say, you buy cheap you get cheap. In this case that holds true. Cheers! On 9/13/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: also Linux users have enjoyed those features for years also since 2005 or so onwards as well. Touch-screen support in ubuntu? not yet. but if you want it you can get a modern jellybean android tablet a lot cheaper than an iPad. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi John, I wouldn't say that. I can think of a number of programs designed for Windows 9x that won't run on Windows 7. I can think of a few XP programs that had to be upgraded when I got Windows 7 as well. For example, when I got my desktop it came with Nero 6.5 and Power DVD 6 which worked well on XP. When I later upgraded that system to Win 7 I also had to upgrade Nero and Power DVD, because neither worked with Windows 7. That's just one example of some software designed for XP that had to be upgraded. Cheers! On 9/13/13, john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net wrote: My point was more that there's no software that was made unusable by win7 that wasn't originally written for windows 9x. Essentially that all xp software I can think of runs on win7. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
isn't the latest jellybean 4.3 or whatever it is quite as accessible as the iPhone? I was told skype works now and all kinds of stuff that wasn't accessible is now useable. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/13/2013 02:23 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Josh, I don't know if you have ever owned or used an Android Tablet, but I personally think they aren't worth the price. The accessibility is quite poor compared to iPods, Android is wide open to viruses and other malware, and they can't be updated as easily as an iPod. As someone use to say, you buy cheap you get cheap. In this case that holds true. Cheers! On 9/13/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: also Linux users have enjoyed those features for years also since 2005 or so onwards as well. Touch-screen support in ubuntu? not yet. but if you want it you can get a modern jellybean android tablet a lot cheaper than an iPad. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hey Tom, Just wanted to comment. I really hope that at least some games will work with OSX, as I really want to use that as much as I can. I still have to use Windows for office tasks but I'm hopping iWork will solve that. I really feel that the voiceover interaction model where you interact with individual objects is truly revolutionary. I know this is off topic so this is all I'll say on this for now. Mike On Sep 13, 2013, at 12:51 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Josh, I know it is quite sad that Mac OS has had many of the features Microsoft is just now getting to in Windows 7 and Windows 8. It goes to show that Microsoft has been caught up in Windows XP far too long, and now Microsoft is far behind the competition in terms of features. They are just now getting to features Mac OS has had for five or more years, and it is clear that Windows 8 is really Microsoft's attempt to catch up. For what it is worth Linux has come a long ways as well the last couple of years and Ubuntu has tried to become more Mac-like with their Unity desktop. Many of the features present in Mac OS and Windows 8 are showing up on the Unity desktop. For example the Dash allows users to search and run programs just by pressing the super key, AKA the Windows key, and then typing in the name of a file or program to run. The Launcher is a bit like the Task bar which allows users to lock favorites to the Launcher instead of searching for them in the Dash. There is no doubt though in anyone's mind where all these new ideas came from and they all came from Apple. So I too have to laugh a bit at other operating systems, because they are so far behind Apple and its clear that Apple is the big innovator today. Its one of the major factors why my wife and I are looking into switching to Apple when we have the money to invest in new laptops in the next couple of years or so. Cheers! On 9/13/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: Hi Tom, I couldn't resist responding to this with a little humor, and a prime example of why Microsoft is so far behind. My responses throughout your message… --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
yes android works well I am using android 4.2 and 4.3 is even better android is closing the gap really fast. On 9/13/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: No. Quite apart from being a pain in general, the fragmentation of Android makes achieving accessibility, particularly of 3rd-party applications, at a level on par with iOS close to impossible. Android has made strides in the right direction, and for that I applaud them, but they are unlikely to match iOS in the foreseeable future. That has less to do with the work they've done, and more to do with inherent flaws in the OS, how it is handled, and the level of fragmentation of the operating system. On Sep 13, 2013, at 3:48 PM, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: isn't the latest jellybean 4.3 or whatever it is quite as accessible as the iPhone? I was told skype works now and all kinds of stuff that wasn't accessible is now useable. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/13/2013 02:23 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Josh, I don't know if you have ever owned or used an Android Tablet, but I personally think they aren't worth the price. The accessibility is quite poor compared to iPods, Android is wide open to viruses and other malware, and they can't be updated as easily as an iPod. As someone use to say, you buy cheap you get cheap. In this case that holds true. Cheers! On 9/13/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: also Linux users have enjoyed those features for years also since 2005 or so onwards as well. Touch-screen support in ubuntu? not yet. but if you want it you can get a modern jellybean android tablet a lot cheaper than an iPad. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Lenron Brown Cell: 985-271-2832 Skype: ron.brown762 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
does android have educational software for kids and some accessible games we can play? I'm considering maybe getting a google android tablet. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/13/2013 04:26 PM, lenron brown wrote: yes android works well I am using android 4.2 and 4.3 is even better android is closing the gap really fast. On 9/13/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: No. Quite apart from being a pain in general, the fragmentation of Android makes achieving accessibility, particularly of 3rd-party applications, at a level on par with iOS close to impossible. Android has made strides in the right direction, and for that I applaud them, but they are unlikely to match iOS in the foreseeable future. That has less to do with the work they've done, and more to do with inherent flaws in the OS, how it is handled, and the level of fragmentation of the operating system. On Sep 13, 2013, at 3:48 PM, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: isn't the latest jellybean 4.3 or whatever it is quite as accessible as the iPhone? I was told skype works now and all kinds of stuff that wasn't accessible is now useable. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/13/2013 02:23 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Josh, I don't know if you have ever owned or used an Android Tablet, but I personally think they aren't worth the price. The accessibility is quite poor compared to iPods, Android is wide open to viruses and other malware, and they can't be updated as easily as an iPod. As someone use to say, you buy cheap you get cheap. In this case that holds true. Cheers! On 9/13/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: also Linux users have enjoyed those features for years also since 2005 or so onwards as well. Touch-screen support in ubuntu? not yet. but if you want it you can get a modern jellybean android tablet a lot cheaper than an iPad. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Mike, All I will say on our plans to support Mac OSX is we will have to wait and see. We don't own a Mac and therefore we can not develop games and software for an operating system we do not currently own. When and if we get the tools and hardware to make writing Mac games feasible we will definitely look into that possibility. For now the best we can do as a developer is write as much of our code as we can with cross-platform development in mind. We do have a version of our engine that runs on Linux, and with some minor updates it could in theory be ported over to Mac with a few changes here and there. So its possible, but just not right now. Cheers! On 9/13/13, Mike Reiser mikereise...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Tom, Just wanted to comment. I really hope that at least some games will work with OSX, as I really want to use that as much as I can. I still have to use Windows for office tasks but I'm hopping iWork will solve that. I really feel that the voiceover interaction model where you interact with individual objects is truly revolutionary. I know this is off topic so this is all I'll say on this for now. Mike --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Josh, there is a problem with your thinking though. The Windows 8 tablets do not use Intel compatible processors in many cases they have Arm processors. As a result you can not just take a game designed for a PC running an Intel or AMD processor and stick it on a tablet with an Arm processor. That is where tablets have a definite disadvantage. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: hmmm I wonder if such games would run in virtual machines? if not I may need to eventually buy a refurbished machine with windows8 on it to play touch screen games but I have a feeling that won't happen for awhile yet. maybe 5 or 10 years or so. and remember thomas that me, personally? if I wanted to play touch screen based games I would just get an android or ipod touch or ipad. why lug around a windows8 laptop? I'd at least get a windows8 tablet and not a full laptop or full desktop for that purpose. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hello Thomas You can say that again. when I got my Win 7 up and running there was lots that were compatible with XP, but not with Win 7. To tell you the trueth I can't wait till XP is over and done for. Just so programmers can put there hard work on making new producks and not worry about what MSOS to make there ideas work for. bfn James -- From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 2:09 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi John, I wouldn't say that. I can think of a number of programs designed for Windows 9x that won't run on Windows 7. I can think of a few XP programs that had to be upgraded when I got Windows 7 as well. For example, when I got my desktop it came with Nero 6.5 and Power DVD 6 which worked well on XP. When I later upgraded that system to Win 7 I also had to upgrade Nero and Power DVD, because neither worked with Windows 7. That's just one example of some software designed for XP that had to be upgraded. Cheers! On 9/13/13, john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net wrote: My point was more that there's no software that was made unusable by win7 that wasn't originally written for windows 9x. Essentially that all xp software I can think of runs on win7. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
No. Quite apart from being a pain in general, the fragmentation of Android makes achieving accessibility, particularly of 3rd-party applications, at a level on par with iOS close to impossible. Android has made strides in the right direction, and for that I applaud them, but they are unlikely to match iOS in the foreseeable future. That has less to do with the work they've done, and more to do with inherent flaws in the OS, how it is handled, and the level of fragmentation of the operating system. On Sep 13, 2013, at 3:48 PM, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: isn't the latest jellybean 4.3 or whatever it is quite as accessible as the iPhone? I was told skype works now and all kinds of stuff that wasn't accessible is now useable. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/13/2013 02:23 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Josh, I don't know if you have ever owned or used an Android Tablet, but I personally think they aren't worth the price. The accessibility is quite poor compared to iPods, Android is wide open to viruses and other malware, and they can't be updated as easily as an iPod. As someone use to say, you buy cheap you get cheap. In this case that holds true. Cheers! On 9/13/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: also Linux users have enjoyed those features for years also since 2005 or so onwards as well. Touch-screen support in ubuntu? not yet. but if you want it you can get a modern jellybean android tablet a lot cheaper than an iPad. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Dark, Well, the reason commercial thinking has played so heavily a part in this debate is I'm looking at this from the long view. That is to say I am looking ahead into the future over the next five years or so, and seeing where we will be by then. Since writing games and other programs is not a trivial amount of time and work we have to think about things like compatibility, about how we will maintain that software, and how things Microsoft are doing right now will effect our products and services in the future. Yes, it is true I have only made and sold one game, Montezuma's Revenge, in the past. However, I don't intend that to be our only commercial game. We have Tomb Hunter coming up in development, we have Raceway, and I may or may not create more commercial games after that. Although, I am not in it purely in it for the money I do want to make enough off the games to cover the cost of development, money to buy or license sounds and music, and 50 customers more or less may very well effect our ability to offer the types of games we want to develop. I'll give you a simple example here. You know that DirectSound has been deprecated by Microsoft for quite some time now, will no longer be updated, and is buggy in some cases. Well, one alternative we have been looking into is the FMOD Ex library by Firelight Technology. If we include it in a free game there is no license fees attached, but as we need to make money to purchase sounds, music, and other things for our games we have to sell our games for something. That means we have to pay licenses to use FMOD Ex in any commercial games. Those licenses in turn means we have to make as many sales as we can to also cover the FMOD Ex license too. So we have to take a commercial worldview of our game development unless we want to do what Jim Kitchen does and write purely free games for no profit. In that case if we did it as a hobby without any money involved then it would not matter what platform or platforms we supported, but we couldn't also buy certain music and sound libraries either. As far as free games goes we will definitely be doing some of those. See our discussion on the upcoming STFC 2.0 and our game WWE Slam. Both are free because it costs too much to license the royalties to make them commercial games, and free Star Trek and wrestling sounds are everywhere. I suspect those will be the games we will be less concerned about XP compatibility because there will be no financial investment costs to worry about or speak of. Cheers! On 9/12/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. I actually fully agree with touch screens being a great technological alternative, indeed this is part of the reason I've considdered skipping windows 7 entirely and going onto 8, albeit I'd want to try one first particularly with seeing how supernova support goes. Again, I'm waiting for the games and applications just like ios has. Btw, to be honest I don't really see why commercial thinking is playing such a part in this debate anyway. You yourself have only ever created one commercial game, which (by no fault of your own), didn't work. The community is made up of hobby developers who aren't! in it for the money, indeed if aprone said he was going to make an awsome windows 8 game which was donation only that would be good enough for me. Really, is the difference between 100 sales and 50 sales (which as I've indicated will be 100 in the long run as people like myself choose to upgrade), so great that you won't use these supposedly awsome new features you keep talking about? And how about free games? You keep saying windows xp is a bad investment, then why not make a better one yourselves and trust people to follow you. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
thats good to know charles. but from what I have seen my unit do I think it may be best to dedicate a desktop system to vms and stuff as its just not working out on the laptop vms run quite slow especially when processing updates and such. I had linux actually say i the vertual hard drive was full and all I did was load programs and install updates and it was 120gb in size so I can't think I would have used that much really. At 12:33 AM 9/14/2013, you wrote: when my new ram memory comes in the mail I too will be giving this laptop 2 more gigs of ram so it too can run all kinds of virtual machines. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 09:11 PM, shaun everiss wrote: hmmm we just can't win eh? its why I still do use xp for now. eventually my plan is to have at least for home a system dedicated to running among other things vms of all sorts so I don't have to share with a laptop or something but for now I still have the capabilities to handle that all. At 11:29 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: Hi Shaun, that's because DirectSound 8 is broken on Windows 7. Shades of Doom, GMA Tank Commander, and Sarah all have audio problems with Windows 7 and Windows 8 because DirectSound lost its 3d virtualization when Microsoft updated their mixer support. Microsoft's answer is upgrade to XAudio2, but of course no one is doing that yet. However, XAudio2 has a few bugs of its own I am not happy about, but anyway the issue with Shades of Doom etc is Directsound. Cheers! On 9/12/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: I could get shades of doom working but all the sounds sounded straight in front of me or behind me yes I could play it without the panning effects but it would be quite hard to do so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Yeah in my heart of hearts I wish that all devs would chuck xp if it was not for all the older programs that needed it I'd have left ages ago. I still like the easy interface but I can sort that easy enough if I want to. At 09:10 AM 9/14/2013, you wrote: Hello Thomas You can say that again. when I got my Win 7 up and running there was lots that were compatible with XP, but not with Win 7. To tell you the trueth I can't wait till XP is over and done for. Just so programmers can put there hard work on making new producks and not worry about what MSOS to make there ideas work for. bfn James -- From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 2:09 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi John, I wouldn't say that. I can think of a number of programs designed for Windows 9x that won't run on Windows 7. I can think of a few XP programs that had to be upgraded when I got Windows 7 as well. For example, when I got my desktop it came with Nero 6.5 and Power DVD 6 which worked well on XP. When I later upgraded that system to Win 7 I also had to upgrade Nero and Power DVD, because neither worked with Windows 7. That's just one example of some software designed for XP that had to be upgraded. Cheers! On 9/13/13, john jpcarnemo...@comcast.net wrote: My point was more that there's no software that was made unusable by win7 that wasn't originally written for windows 9x. Essentially that all xp software I can think of runs on win7. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
some have had success with a few mods and such, but apple sertainly have coined it. myself I plan to get an i phone but maybe the cheaper c class when it comes out later this year. you get what you pay for and apple you pay the best for the best, I started in windows but my phone well that could go somewhere at some point. At 08:10 AM 9/14/2013, you wrote: No. Quite apart from being a pain in general, the fragmentation of Android makes achieving accessibility, particularly of 3rd-party applications, at a level on par with iOS close to impossible. Android has made strides in the right direction, and for that I applaud them, but they are unlikely to match iOS in the foreseeable future. That has less to do with the work they've done, and more to do with inherent flaws in the OS, how it is handled, and the level of fragmentation of the operating system. On Sep 13, 2013, at 3:48 PM, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: isn't the latest jellybean 4.3 or whatever it is quite as accessible as the iPhone? I was told skype works now and all kinds of stuff that wasn't accessible is now useable. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/13/2013 02:23 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Josh, I don't know if you have ever owned or used an Android Tablet, but I personally think they aren't worth the price. The accessibility is quite poor compared to iPods, Android is wide open to viruses and other malware, and they can't be updated as easily as an iPod. As someone use to say, you buy cheap you get cheap. In this case that holds true. Cheers! On 9/13/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: also Linux users have enjoyed those features for years also since 2005 or so onwards as well. Touch-screen support in ubuntu? not yet. but if you want it you can get a modern jellybean android tablet a lot cheaper than an iPad. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
See how you feel when Windows 8.1 is out. I have the preview as a guet and I like it much more over 8. On 12/09/2013 06:29, James Bartlett wrote: Hello there tell me about it. My Win 7 pc died on me and now I'm stock using my old XP pc. my wife has Win 8 on her lap top, but it's a pain for me to use because I'm just not use to using a lap top keyboard, and JAWS 14 slows down her pc big time. So All I have on that is NVDA, and I'm just not use to using NVDA, but I still perfer to use that over my xp. the only reason I kept it was just so I can play games that win 7 and 8 dosen't serport. Man I can't wait to get my win 7 back up and running. bfn James --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hey Tom, I keep meaning to make time to investigate Linux, because my only impression of it is years out of date now. I haven't heard of any screen reader users using it as their digital audio workstation to make and mix music, with access to VST plugins and the like, and that's kinda my main use of a computer nowadays. Of course, just because I haven't heard of it being done in Linux, doesn't mean it can't be done in Linux. You wouldn't happen to know anything about that sort of usage would you? Scott On 9/12/13, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Scott, Thanks for the information. I didn't know Apple had dropped XP support in Boot Camp, but I can't honestly say I am surprised either. XP is really really old, and a lot of people are going to be dropping support here and there. Everyone accept VMWare who stay in business by offering a virtual machine for just about everything. :D However, about the capitalist model you are right. It doesn't really matter if it is Microsoft or Apple they are both the same from a commercial developer standard. Its merely a case of pick your poison. That is why there is a third solution, Linux, which is driven by the user community rather than some all powerful money hungry corporation. If the user is willing to take up an open source operating system, customize it to is/her preference, he or she will do well. Otherwise they will just have to pick one of the commercial developers who's only objective is more money, money, money. Cheers! On 9/11/13, Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com wrote: Just a small detail to throw into the mix. Apple already stopped supporting XP via Boot Camp back in 2011. At the time I saw a few relatively easy workarounds to get XP working again, but they were all reliant on Apple still quietly providing a set of XP drivers on retail disks of Lion. Tbh, I highly doubt that'll still be happening now, what with Mountain Lion running everything in 64-bit by default. Even if it is still the case, I'll eat my hat if it can still be done by the time most of the XP hanger-onners actually attempt to make the switch. Of course, XP can still be installed and run via VmWare Fusion now, and that'll be the same for years to come seeing as maximum compatibility is one of the things that keeps VmWare in business. Fusion will work a treat for the officy tasks that are still kinda clunky or simply not doable with VoiceOver, and will probably also keep some people content in terms of gaming, but you'll definitely feel the difference when running any newer ttitles that tax the system more through Fusion. For what it's worth, the accessibility, length of support and rampant capitalism on display doesn't seem any better or worse if you put your fate in Apples hands. If you're fundamentally against the way the technology industry is being run, then it's just a slightly different flavour of doom, and you likely won't be any happier with Apple as your evil overlords. Oh happy day... Scott --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Wow dark, I feel bad for you dude. You are being quite stubborn, and missing out on so much! Sounds like you don't like change very much. This is all just my opinion. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:56 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users However again tom, you say a newer and better computer Suppose say winamp's next version won't work on xp, well is it's next version any better than the previous one? Heck, I don't have the latest version of winamp now, mostly because what I do with winamp is quite okay anyway, indeed winamp only usually gets upgraded when I can be bothered. This is basically the problem with this philoosophy of you must have the latest upgrade my question is well why? I still own a snes, it still works, I still play games on it. Yes, there are plenty of other consoles with far better hardware and software, but none of them have as many playable games for me so why should I upgrade? yes, in a few years I might be forced to upgrade if my computer breaks, but if I'm going to spend a lot of money on a new machine, and learn a new interface I want some actual return on my investment. This is indeed why I waited myself back in 2008, in the hope that developers would make it worth my while to upgrade, but as yet nobody has, heck, if my computer died I'd be very tempted to get another xp machine just because I just don't see any bennifit in all the sshenanigans with a new os, all it would mean is losing outlook express, getting an inconvenient interface, and bad compatibility with several programs. I freely admit this situation may change, indeed I'd be very happy if it did and someone used these supposedly wondrous new features to create better games and software, but that just plane hasn't happened. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
audacity in Linux should do what you want. in my case the installer for vinux4 on the dell latitude e4310 laptop keeps rashing so I'll either have to find another installer, or I'll have to use another system like fdora or sonar. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 04:41 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote: Hey Tom, I keep meaning to make time to investigate Linux, because my only impression of it is years out of date now. I haven't heard of any screen reader users using it as their digital audio workstation to make and mix music, with access to VST plugins and the like, and that's kinda my main use of a computer nowadays. Of course, just because I haven't heard of it being done in Linux, doesn't mean it can't be done in Linux. You wouldn't happen to know anything about that sort of usage would you? Scott On 9/12/13, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Scott, Thanks for the information. I didn't know Apple had dropped XP support in Boot Camp, but I can't honestly say I am surprised either. XP is really really old, and a lot of people are going to be dropping support here and there. Everyone accept VMWare who stay in business by offering a virtual machine for just about everything. :D However, about the capitalist model you are right. It doesn't really matter if it is Microsoft or Apple they are both the same from a commercial developer standard. Its merely a case of pick your poison. That is why there is a third solution, Linux, which is driven by the user community rather than some all powerful money hungry corporation. If the user is willing to take up an open source operating system, customize it to is/her preference, he or she will do well. Otherwise they will just have to pick one of the commercial developers who's only objective is more money, money, money. Cheers! On 9/11/13, Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com wrote: Just a small detail to throw into the mix. Apple already stopped supporting XP via Boot Camp back in 2011. At the time I saw a few relatively easy workarounds to get XP working again, but they were all reliant on Apple still quietly providing a set of XP drivers on retail disks of Lion. Tbh, I highly doubt that'll still be happening now, what with Mountain Lion running everything in 64-bit by default. Even if it is still the case, I'll eat my hat if it can still be done by the time most of the XP hanger-onners actually attempt to make the switch. Of course, XP can still be installed and run via VmWare Fusion now, and that'll be the same for years to come seeing as maximum compatibility is one of the things that keeps VmWare in business. Fusion will work a treat for the officy tasks that are still kinda clunky or simply not doable with VoiceOver, and will probably also keep some people content in terms of gaming, but you'll definitely feel the difference when running any newer ttitles that tax the system more through Fusion. For what it's worth, the accessibility, length of support and rampant capitalism on display doesn't seem any better or worse if you put your fate in Apples hands. If you're fundamentally against the way the technology industry is being run, then it's just a slightly different flavour of doom, and you likely won't be any happier with Apple as your evil overlords. Oh happy day... Scott --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Well darren what the hell am I actually missing out on? when I say I don't like windows 7's interface, I mean that on the basis of experience, perhaps not extensive experience, but certainly not nothing. As I said, I could well get used to it, but why should I? Learning the iphone interface was a challenge I admit, however it was well worth my while because of the games and other useful applications I got out of it. Is the same true for windows 7 or 8? will I get anything better to compensate me for the inconvenience? This is the point it seems people don't understand, so I'm not using the latest version with the biggest numbers and most swanky hardware, well so what? I really couldn't care less. To missquote a famous american president, ask not what you can do for your computer but what your computer can do for you :D. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Duff duff...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Wow dark, I feel bad for you dude. You are being quite stubborn, and missing out on so much! Sounds like you don't like change very much. This is all just my opinion. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:56 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users However again tom, you say a newer and better computer Suppose say winamp's next version won't work on xp, well is it's next version any better than the previous one? Heck, I don't have the latest version of winamp now, mostly because what I do with winamp is quite okay anyway, indeed winamp only usually gets upgraded when I can be bothered. This is basically the problem with this philoosophy of you must have the latest upgrade my question is well why? I still own a snes, it still works, I still play games on it. Yes, there are plenty of other consoles with far better hardware and software, but none of them have as many playable games for me so why should I upgrade? yes, in a few years I might be forced to upgrade if my computer breaks, but if I'm going to spend a lot of money on a new machine, and learn a new interface I want some actual return on my investment. This is indeed why I waited myself back in 2008, in the hope that developers would make it worth my while to upgrade, but as yet nobody has, heck, if my computer died I'd be very tempted to get another xp machine just because I just don't see any bennifit in all the sshenanigans with a new os, all it would mean is losing outlook express, getting an inconvenient interface, and bad compatibility with several programs. I freely admit this situation may change, indeed I'd be very happy if it did and someone used these supposedly wondrous new features to create better games and software, but that just plane hasn't happened. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
This whole discussion reminds me eerily of the IPv6 transition problem, currently in progress. IPv4, the current addressing system for the Internet, has a limited capacity of four billion addresses, now mostly exhausted worldwide and increasingly being traded on Secondary markets (a euphemistic term used by address brokers to describe their unethical practices). IPv6 does not; it has an address space of 2^128 addresses, far more than humanity will need to conquer a few galaxies. The need for IPv6 is evident; even if only one device per person in this world were anticipated, IPv4 would not accommodate. But IPv6 cannot happen until all of the world's equipment is upgraded to it. Every host (computer, smartphone, server, TV, printer, whatever) and every router (whether for the home or for the corporation or for the ISP or for the carrier) that participates in the exchange of IPv6 traffic first has to be upgraded. So almost at once, we have a problem: nobody wants to upgrade until they can see a benefit, and nobody can see any of the benefits until they upgrade. What's worse, a number of kludges, such as Carrier Grade NAT, are being bandied about as Solutions which can alleviate the problem; ISPs, seeing that websites have no IPv6 and consumer modems aren't being patched and manufacturers of equipment aren't being motivated, turn to sharing public IP addresses among customers, rather than assigning one per customer. That game you need to set up port forwarding for could soon stop working. But the ISP has Solved the problem of the address crunch by just using fewer addresses, and nobody got hurt … much. And anyway, everybody knows you pay for a public IP address; everyone else can manage just fine with a private address to surf the web and read email … As you might imagine, opinions are strongly divided, though thankfully fewer and fewer are resisting the upgrade. Much like environmentalism, it becomes a question of social responsibility: on the one hand, you can see no benefit and therefore reasonably make no effort to upgrade for the foreseeable future simply because nobody else is doing it, and on the other hand you can see that a problem which may not be felt now will ultimately be felt in the future, and make it your goal and ambition to get everybody upgraded so that the worst does not happen. Which you do depends on whether or not you are convinced that the problem really is a problem that needs to be solved. How is this relevant to the discussion. Well, XP is our IPv4. It's been around for ages, it's solid, and everyone loves it and knows someone who uses it. Future versions of Windows are like IPv6. They introduce tons of new features, are new, shiny and in many ways experimental, and they upset the applecart pretty badly. But they are the future going forward to which everybody will ultimately have to abide, and they introduce a necessary foundation for future developments that simply cannot be attained with XP that developers depend on being available. How is this not relevant? As Dark observed, Microsoft is responsible for the feature upgrades that were less desirable for some luddites and is mandating them on us. It seems inevitable that we're getting them whether we like them or not, but unlike IPv6 there is no world crisis; Microsoft simply made lots of stupid decisions and Windows Vista/7/8 are the result. Sadly, this does not change the fact that we will be using them if we wish to use future technologies, and if we do not use them we will be holding up the developers who are simply not going to be motivated to create games that surpass XP's artificial limitations. That XP does what we want now is of no consequence if long-term development plans are completely nixed, so we simply have to be willing to upgrade if we expect developers to show us what's possible going forward. What about me? I'll use future versions of Windows if I have to, and will support any use of those platforms as long as they are specifically required and the features are indisputably compelling, but I'm keeping an XP VM around forever and will use that to do my contemporary audio gaming on Windows. I'm absolutely confident that I'll be requiring it for the foreseeable future and that it will meet my needs. I also use OS X as my primary environment, so the need to run Windows post XP is already very minimal; mostly just testing for other users. By the way, XP has IPv6 support. It's optional. It's required in future versions of Windows. Cheers, Sabahattin --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Assuming the feature set of Audacity is the same across all platforms, it's a good environment for audio editing, but not quite what I'm after for composition or mixing. Thanks anyway though, it's a good place to start my research from. I'm suddenly keen to take Linux for a spin again. Scott On 9/12/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: audacity in Linux should do what you want. in my case the installer for vinux4 on the dell latitude e4310 laptop keeps rashing so I'll either have to find another installer, or I'll have to use another system like fdora or sonar. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 04:41 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote: Hey Tom, I keep meaning to make time to investigate Linux, because my only impression of it is years out of date now. I haven't heard of any screen reader users using it as their digital audio workstation to make and mix music, with access to VST plugins and the like, and that's kinda my main use of a computer nowadays. Of course, just because I haven't heard of it being done in Linux, doesn't mean it can't be done in Linux. You wouldn't happen to know anything about that sort of usage would you? Scott On 9/12/13, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Scott, Thanks for the information. I didn't know Apple had dropped XP support in Boot Camp, but I can't honestly say I am surprised either. XP is really really old, and a lot of people are going to be dropping support here and there. Everyone accept VMWare who stay in business by offering a virtual machine for just about everything. :D However, about the capitalist model you are right. It doesn't really matter if it is Microsoft or Apple they are both the same from a commercial developer standard. Its merely a case of pick your poison. That is why there is a third solution, Linux, which is driven by the user community rather than some all powerful money hungry corporation. If the user is willing to take up an open source operating system, customize it to is/her preference, he or she will do well. Otherwise they will just have to pick one of the commercial developers who's only objective is more money, money, money. Cheers! On 9/11/13, Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com wrote: Just a small detail to throw into the mix. Apple already stopped supporting XP via Boot Camp back in 2011. At the time I saw a few relatively easy workarounds to get XP working again, but they were all reliant on Apple still quietly providing a set of XP drivers on retail disks of Lion. Tbh, I highly doubt that'll still be happening now, what with Mountain Lion running everything in 64-bit by default. Even if it is still the case, I'll eat my hat if it can still be done by the time most of the XP hanger-onners actually attempt to make the switch. Of course, XP can still be installed and run via VmWare Fusion now, and that'll be the same for years to come seeing as maximum compatibility is one of the things that keeps VmWare in business. Fusion will work a treat for the officy tasks that are still kinda clunky or simply not doable with VoiceOver, and will probably also keep some people content in terms of gaming, but you'll definitely feel the difference when running any newer ttitles that tax the system more through Fusion. For what it's worth, the accessibility, length of support and rampant capitalism on display doesn't seem any better or worse if you put your fate in Apples hands. If you're fundamentally against the way the technology industry is being run, then it's just a slightly different flavour of doom, and you likely won't be any happier with Apple as your evil overlords. Oh happy day... Scott --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
hI there I heard that Win 8.1 had the option to go back to the win 7 or xp lay out. like xp did where you can go back to classic view. is that true? I don't realy have a problem with win 8 now it just takes some getting use to. bfn James -- From: Chris H christopher...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 1:06 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users See how you feel when Windows 8.1 is out. I have the preview as a guet and I like it much more over 8. On 12/09/2013 06:29, James Bartlett wrote: Hello there tell me about it. My Win 7 pc died on me and now I'm stock using my old XP pc. my wife has Win 8 on her lap top, but it's a pain for me to use because I'm just not use to using a lap top keyboard, and JAWS 14 slows down her pc big time. So All I have on that is NVDA, and I'm just not use to using NVDA, but I still perfer to use that over my xp. the only reason I kept it was just so I can play games that win 7 and 8 dosen't serport. Man I can't wait to get my win 7 back up and running. bfn James --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
hI there That is the good thing about linux is that if something doesn't work the way you want it to you can go and make it. that is if you know enough programing to do so. that is why I'm slowly making the move to linux. bfn James -- From: Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:41 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hey Tom, I keep meaning to make time to investigate Linux, because my only impression of it is years out of date now. I haven't heard of any screen reader users using it as their digital audio workstation to make and mix music, with access to VST plugins and the like, and that's kinda my main use of a computer nowadays. Of course, just because I haven't heard of it being done in Linux, doesn't mean it can't be done in Linux. You wouldn't happen to know anything about that sort of usage would you? Scott On 9/12/13, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Scott, Thanks for the information. I didn't know Apple had dropped XP support in Boot Camp, but I can't honestly say I am surprised either. XP is really really old, and a lot of people are going to be dropping support here and there. Everyone accept VMWare who stay in business by offering a virtual machine for just about everything. :D However, about the capitalist model you are right. It doesn't really matter if it is Microsoft or Apple they are both the same from a commercial developer standard. Its merely a case of pick your poison. That is why there is a third solution, Linux, which is driven by the user community rather than some all powerful money hungry corporation. If the user is willing to take up an open source operating system, customize it to is/her preference, he or she will do well. Otherwise they will just have to pick one of the commercial developers who's only objective is more money, money, money. Cheers! On 9/11/13, Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com wrote: Just a small detail to throw into the mix. Apple already stopped supporting XP via Boot Camp back in 2011. At the time I saw a few relatively easy workarounds to get XP working again, but they were all reliant on Apple still quietly providing a set of XP drivers on retail disks of Lion. Tbh, I highly doubt that'll still be happening now, what with Mountain Lion running everything in 64-bit by default. Even if it is still the case, I'll eat my hat if it can still be done by the time most of the XP hanger-onners actually attempt to make the switch. Of course, XP can still be installed and run via VmWare Fusion now, and that'll be the same for years to come seeing as maximum compatibility is one of the things that keeps VmWare in business. Fusion will work a treat for the officy tasks that are still kinda clunky or simply not doable with VoiceOver, and will probably also keep some people content in terms of gaming, but you'll definitely feel the difference when running any newer ttitles that tax the system more through Fusion. For what it's worth, the accessibility, length of support and rampant capitalism on display doesn't seem any better or worse if you put your fate in Apples hands. If you're fundamentally against the way the technology industry is being run, then it's just a slightly different flavour of doom, and you likely won't be any happier with Apple as your evil overlords. Oh happy day... Scott --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
And actually, Apple's Mountain Lion OS was only $19.99 for the upgrade. They haven't announced pricing for Mavoricks yet, but I expect it will be the same or less as Mountain Lion. On Sep 11, 2013, at 11:46 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: hi Cara, Yeah, that is a big difference. I think I paid $40 for the Windows 8 upgrade which is cheaper than usual, but Apple still has them beat and Windows 8 was on sale. LOL! Cheers! On 9/11/13, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote: Actually there is a diff between MS and Apple since people are chatting about money being an issue for upgrading. Apple only charges $30 USD to upgrade your OS. I'd love to see MS try that. Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
hI there To be fair not everyone is going to like a piece of softwear that is why there is so many different types of OS's out there. that is what makes the world go around. If he tried win 7 and din't like it then why should he use it? if what he likes is XP then why not use the hell out of it? well that is untill there is no serport for it. bfn James -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:50 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Well darren what the hell am I actually missing out on? when I say I don't like windows 7's interface, I mean that on the basis of experience, perhaps not extensive experience, but certainly not nothing. As I said, I could well get used to it, but why should I? Learning the iphone interface was a challenge I admit, however it was well worth my while because of the games and other useful applications I got out of it. Is the same true for windows 7 or 8? will I get anything better to compensate me for the inconvenience? This is the point it seems people don't understand, so I'm not using the latest version with the biggest numbers and most swanky hardware, well so what? I really couldn't care less. To missquote a famous american president, ask not what you can do for your computer but what your computer can do for you :D. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Duff duff...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Wow dark, I feel bad for you dude. You are being quite stubborn, and missing out on so much! Sounds like you don't like change very much. This is all just my opinion. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:56 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users However again tom, you say a newer and better computer Suppose say winamp's next version won't work on xp, well is it's next version any better than the previous one? Heck, I don't have the latest version of winamp now, mostly because what I do with winamp is quite okay anyway, indeed winamp only usually gets upgraded when I can be bothered. This is basically the problem with this philoosophy of you must have the latest upgrade my question is well why? I still own a snes, it still works, I still play games on it. Yes, there are plenty of other consoles with far better hardware and software, but none of them have as many playable games for me so why should I upgrade? yes, in a few years I might be forced to upgrade if my computer breaks, but if I'm going to spend a lot of money on a new machine, and learn a new interface I want some actual return on my investment. This is indeed why I waited myself back in 2008, in the hope that developers would make it worth my while to upgrade, but as yet nobody has, heck, if my computer died I'd be very tempted to get another xp machine just because I just don't see any bennifit in all the sshenanigans with a new os, all it would mean is losing outlook express, getting an inconvenient interface, and bad compatibility with several programs. I freely admit this situation may change, indeed I'd be very happy if it did and someone used these supposedly wondrous new features to create better games and software, but that just plane hasn't happened. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Josh, Well said, and I feel much the way you do. If I can support XP without seriously crippling my ability to directly support newer operating systems like Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 no problem. However, if there is a doubt between say better 3d audio with XAudio2 on Windows 7/8 then of course that is what I will do because even though the majority may still be using XP sooner or later those XP users will have to upgrade or simply get left behind. No sense crippling new software because certain people either can't or simply don't want to upgrade. What is truly ironic about this situation is I've seen it all before from this community time and time again. Back when people were running MS Dos 6.2 and Jaws for Dos and Windows 3.1 came out many blind people didn't want to run Windows. Well, back then they had a choice because a lot of the Dos stuff was still viable, but when Windows 95 came out the die-hard Dos users said they'd never upgrade to Windows 95. Turns out eventually they did anyway despite their protestations to the contrary. Next thing you know everyone eventually upgraded to Windows 98, and many people said Windows 98 was fine for them. So when XP came out in 2001, the very OS people say that they now can't live without, the 98 users said they'd never ever upgrade to XP. XP is crap, trash, etc. Well, something must have happened to change their minds because many of those Windows 98 users can't give up XP despite all their protestations that they would not upgrade etc. Are we seeing a pattern here? Maybe some users here have short term memories, but I certainly don't. I can sit back and laugh about the arguments people are making about Windows 8 because it is the very same kinds of arguments Dos users made about Windows 95, 98 users said about XP, and so on. There would be a lot of complaints, bitching, moaning, and groaning for a few years, but eventually they'd end up buying a new computer with said OS on it and the argument eventually died out of lack of die-hard supporters. The only major difference now is there are so many XP users out there with working computers that it may take a little longer for all of them to upgrade, but make no mistake about it they will change or not have a computer to use in a few years. As the Rolling Stones said, time is on my side. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Draconis i...@dracoent.com wrote: Hi Tom and Charles, The idea of developing for the majority of customers, assuming that the majority are using XP, falls apart when you take a long-term view. Like it or not, everyone is going to have to abandon XP sooner or later, and probably sooner. No more updates means no fixes to newly discovered security holes, for example. If you don't care about viruses/your personal information, then I guess you can use it, but I think most do care bout such things. So, developing for the majority of customers who are currently using XP, means that you're creating software that, in very short order, will be useless at worst or require significant rewriting at best. It's kinda like saying, I'm going to buy this candy bar because I can enjoy it right *now*…and I won't worry about the fact that I'm spending my bus fair to get home tonight. The real problem here is that many, many users are mistakenly convinced that they can use XP forever, just as many were convinced that they could use DOS forever 15-20 years ago. As for cost, between VoiceOver, NVDA, and Orca, spending money on a screen reader is a choice, not a necessity for most users. There are always exceptions…but they are just that…exceptions. I haven't bought a new version of a commercial screen reader in 7 years, and haven't missed them a bit. I use VoiceOver on Mac primarily, and NVDA if I have to use Windows. We will support XP if we can do so without seriously crippling our ability to develop new titles. When that day inevitably comes, we will move on. Fortunately, the computer market is shifting, and a significant portion of our customers are Mac users, where this problem is pretty much moot. For about $20 you can upgrade to the latest version of the OS, and your screen reader is included. Since Mac sales have been significantly better than Windows ones…we're not too worried about it these days. After all, eventually, Windows users will be forced to abandon XP, and when they are, we'll be there…whether it is on a new version of Windows, Mac, or iOS device. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi James, Well, unfortunately that argument doesn't hold up for the long term. Besides there are workarounds for many of the things Dark and others don't like. Things like Classic Shell are there precisely to restore menus and some of the classic dialogs to Windows 7 and Windows 8 that Windows no longer offers. Its not a perfect solution or fit for having an XP-like UI but its close enough. There is customization available if people want it, but they have to be willing to make the effort for it. However, I'm not going to argue the point any more, because I firmly believe as been done so many times in the past these XP users will bitch, moan, and groan a while and then upgrade anyway. So why argue with them? Cheers! On 9/12/13, James Bartlett jab8...@gmail.com wrote: hI there To be fair not everyone is going to like a piece of softwear that is why there is so many different types of OS's out there. that is what makes the world go around. If he tried win 7 and din't like it then why should he use it? if what he likes is XP then why not use the hell out of it? well that is untill there is no serport for it. bfn James --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
people could get refurbished computers from blair technology or newegg and just put windows8 on them. or better yet get an android tablet and just make the games for tablets. I'd rather play touch screen games on tablets anyway than have them on a full laptop which is part touch screen pretending to try to be a tablet. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 03:10 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Ken, You may be right, but as I said its a catch 22. I could probably write a brand spanking new game for windows 8 using XAudio2 for 3d audio, use SFML tags with SAPI for more expressive speech output, could add touchscreen support, but if my customer base is one out of every ten that has Windows 8 I could be setting myself up for a huge financial loss hoping that the other nine out of ten buy Windows 8 upgrades to play my game. As Charles and others made plain not a lot of people have much money to spend on new computers and software and I'd be running a huge financial risk by doing that. Its smarter not to write a game with any of those features and make it backwards compatible with XP until such time the market changes and I can safely include those features without worrying about XP support so much. However, as Cara pointed out by so many users using XP you guys are pretty much restricting my choice in adding all these new features because its too much work to add without some pay off in the end. I guess the only solution for that is to write a prototype, a demo game, that includes all these features and let people have at it. Maybe if they saw this in action they might, just might be convinced, to change their minds. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Ken The PionEar kenwdow...@me.com wrote: I think that what we need is a good audio demo of what a game could be on Windows 8. As sighted people look at the screen shots of apps to see wether they might like the games, I think all the blind community needs is a good demo of what windows 8 is like and what its abilities are, especially in the realm of gaming. I think that in this case, sound and a good demo will speak louder than words alone. Check out my games at www.ThePionEar.net and my music, and that of my band, at www.ThePionEar.net/BlindLabyrinth.html . Also, check out, The Believer and Skeptic Show, at iTunes! If you want to reach me, you can call 419-744-0517, friend me on Facebook, (KenWDowney,) or write me at kenwdow...@me.com . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi tom. I actually fully agree with touch screens being a great technological alternative, indeed this is part of the reason I've considdered skipping windows 7 entirely and going onto 8, albeit I'd want to try one first particularly with seeing how supernova support goes. Again, I'm waiting for the games and applications just like ios has. Btw, to be honest I don't really see why commercial thinking is playing such a part in this debate anyway. You yourself have only ever created one commercial game, which (by no fault of your own), didn't work. The community is made up of hobby developers who aren't! in it for the money, indeed if aprone said he was going to make an awsome windows 8 game which was donation only that would be good enough for me. Really, is the difference between 100 sales and 50 sales (which as I've indicated will be 100 in the long run as people like myself choose to upgrade), so great that you won't use these supposedly awsome new features you keep talking about? And how about free games? You keep saying windows xp is a bad investment, then why not make a better one yourselves and trust people to follow you. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Only one thing to say about this. How come you xp users are not using win98 after all it still works and all the game made for the blind do work on it. And on another note all blind computer users in the past3 years maybe more are using win7 and up. Because that is what the orgs buy them today. You may not like upgrades but manufacture do them and we as consumers have no say in that. Like they say money talks and the past fades away like dos. At 07:26 PM 9/11/2013, you wrote: I would have developers develop for what their customers use. Should it be the customer?, or the developer, who determines what will sell? The iPhone is still very popular with blind people. Should developers develop for the Android if they think the Android is the most current device? If they do, their goods won't be purchased by users of the iPhone, which are the majority of their potential customers. Same idea. Potential customers won't buy software that won't work on XP if they, by their choices that are based on available funds and, in some cases, due to a lack of willingness to change because what they are using meets their needs. If software only works with Windows 7 and above, blind people won't buy it, and the developer loses due to the fact that he or she feels that the customers should change. What ever happened to the adage that The customer is always right.? It just makes sense for me, as a developer, to develop what my customers will be able to use rather than what they will use if they upgrade to the hardware and software that I think they should. Even if there are good sound reasons to upgrade, if my customers cannot do so, or if they won't do so, I, as a developer, should produce what they can and will buy. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Dark, this is not Microsoft's fault. You're railing here,against capitalism itself. -Which is fine btw, but remember you're a part of this system as well. As for new and wonderous games for new OS'es, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy! How can there be new games for OS'es which no one is willing to use? How will developers make any money writing games which they know they will never sell because people like yourself refuse to update to a new OS? Why would a small developer put themselves in that position deliberately? This is simply unrealistic and unsympathetic to expect someone to do. How is someone supposed to make a living? Are they just supposed to put themselves out just so they can try to woo people to adopt a new OS and then sit back and hope against hope that people will in fact like their game enough to update their OS for it? What would you have developers do? thanks, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Sep 11, 2013, at 2:10 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. the problem, and the thing you and other developers don't seem to get, is that all the hip software upgrades and big number features in the world don't actually matter. yes, I could probably get used to the new interface, and probably live without older games, but why should I? Microsoft have created a system which does have a learning curve, especially in it's lack of personal customization, (had they included propper backwards compatibility and interface control that would've been different, but they haven't). Myself, if you or other developers started! saying look, this is a really cool feature that this game can use, like that tags idea and it comes with windows 8, here! is a good reason to upgrade then I'd considder upgrading. Why did I buy an iphone and get used to vo? because basically there were lots of fun things that I couldn't do with an xp laptop. Back when windows 7 originally came out this is exactly what I expected would happen, and by this point in time I expected actually good reasons to upgrade, a hole bunch of games with newer and more interesting features that would be playable only on newer os, but they haven't appeared, indeed I can only think of one single audio game, airic the clerric which is windows 7 only, (and even that is being fixed). Yes, this means for a while people won't buy your games that are using xp, but as you pointed out yourself that is the risk of a new os, and if your so bothered about making the best games with these wondrous new things it shouldn't matter. Ultimately of course the fault is microsoft's, for creating a system which is utterly unattractive, which has a harder to learn interface, and offers nothing of practical use to the actual everyday vi user, however as you said yourself microsoft are out to make money so think
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
II agree change is good. On 9/12/13, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Alternately, produce something awesome and only make it available where the bulk of your users are. If that means XP gets nothing, then so be it - it'll be incentive to get people off 12 year old operating systems. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Ken, You may be right, but as I said its a catch 22. I could probably write a brand spanking new game for windows 8 using XAudio2 for 3d audio, use SFML tags with SAPI for more expressive speech output, could add touchscreen support, but if my customer base is one out of every ten that has Windows 8 I could be setting myself up for a huge financial loss hoping that the other nine out of ten buy Windows 8 upgrades to play my game. As Charles and others made plain not a lot of people have much money to spend on new computers and software and I'd be running a huge financial risk by doing that. Its smarter not to write a game with any of those features and make it backwards compatible with XP until such time the market changes and I can safely include those features without worrying about XP support so much. However, as Cara pointed out by so many users using XP you guys are pretty much restricting my choice in adding all these new features because its too much work to add without some pay off in the end. I guess the only solution for that is to write a prototype, a demo game, that includes all these features and let people have at it. Maybe if they saw this in action they might, just might be convinced, to change their minds. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Ken The PionEar kenwdow...@me.com wrote: I think that what we need is a good audio demo of what a game could be on Windows 8. As sighted people look at the screen shots of apps to see wether they might like the games, I think all the blind community needs is a good demo of what windows 8 is like and what its abilities are, especially in the realm of gaming. I think that in this case, sound and a good demo will speak louder than words alone. Check out my games at www.ThePionEar.net and my music, and that of my band, at www.ThePionEar.net/BlindLabyrinth.html . Also, check out, The Believer and Skeptic Show, at iTunes! If you want to reach me, you can call 419-744-0517, friend me on Facebook, (KenWDowney,) or write me at kenwdow...@me.com . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Lenron Brown Cell: 985-271-2832 Skype: ron.brown762 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Scott, Truthfully, I am no expert on making and mixing music on Linux, but it doesn't mean it can't be done. There is a program called Rose Garden that is suppose to be mostly accessible that can do this, but I don't really have any experience with it to give advice. Audacity is about all I personally use for recording and editing sound effects and while mostly accessible it still isn't quite as accessible as the Windows version. As a result any kind of sound and music editing and recording I do is often on my Windows 7 machine. If you have any other Linux questions please ask me off list as this is drifting off topic, and the only reason I answered this question here is music production is part of game development. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Tom, I keep meaning to make time to investigate Linux, because my only impression of it is years out of date now. I haven't heard of any screen reader users using it as their digital audio workstation to make and mix music, with access to VST plugins and the like, and that's kinda my main use of a computer nowadays. Of course, just because I haven't heard of it being done in Linux, doesn't mean it can't be done in Linux. You wouldn't happen to know anything about that sort of usage would you? Scott --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Again though, you and other people just waiting for more developers to develop games for newer platforms is exactly what's not! going to make it happen. Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 1:17 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi tom. I actually fully agree with touch screens being a great technological alternative, indeed this is part of the reason I've considdered skipping windows 7 entirely and going onto 8, albeit I'd want to try one first particularly with seeing how supernova support goes. Again, I'm waiting for the games and applications just like ios has. Btw, to be honest I don't really see why commercial thinking is playing such a part in this debate anyway. You yourself have only ever created one commercial game, which (by no fault of your own), didn't work. The community is made up of hobby developers who aren't! in it for the money, indeed if aprone said he was going to make an awsome windows 8 game which was donation only that would be good enough for me. Really, is the difference between 100 sales and 50 sales (which as I've indicated will be 100 in the long run as people like myself choose to upgrade), so great that you won't use these supposedly awsome new features you keep talking about? And how about free games? You keep saying windows xp is a bad investment, then why not make a better one yourselves and trust people to follow you. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
good point, mainly because 98's usb support sucks and you need drivers for everything. and well security stuff getting that to run on 98 just doesn't seem worth it. pluss I was never able to get it on the broadband stuff yes dialup users on 98 maybe but you can't run nvda on it. xp and 98 are not the issue its when ms started the new vista core after that. I can accept vista and even 7 but thats about it for now. At 12:11 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: Only one thing to say about this. How come you xp users are not using win98 after all it still works and all the game made for the blind do work on it. And on another note all blind computer users in the past3 years maybe more are using win7 and up. Because that is what the orgs buy them today. You may not like upgrades but manufacture do them and we as consumers have no say in that. Like they say money talks and the past fades away like dos. At 07:26 PM 9/11/2013, you wrote: I would have developers develop for what their customers use. Should it be the customer?, or the developer, who determines what will sell? The iPhone is still very popular with blind people. Should developers develop for the Android if they think the Android is the most current device? If they do, their goods won't be purchased by users of the iPhone, which are the majority of their potential customers. Same idea. Potential customers won't buy software that won't work on XP if they, by their choices that are based on available funds and, in some cases, due to a lack of willingness to change because what they are using meets their needs. If software only works with Windows 7 and above, blind people won't buy it, and the developer loses due to the fact that he or she feels that the customers should change. What ever happened to the adage that The customer is always right.? It just makes sense for me, as a developer, to develop what my customers will be able to use rather than what they will use if they upgrade to the hardware and software that I think they should. Even if there are good sound reasons to upgrade, if my customers cannot do so, or if they won't do so, I, as a developer, should produce what they can and will buy. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Dark, this is not Microsoft's fault. You're railing here,against capitalism itself. -Which is fine btw, but remember you're a part of this system as well. As for new and wonderous games for new OS'es, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy! How can there be new games for OS'es which no one is willing to use? How will developers make any money writing games which they know they will never sell because people like yourself refuse to update to a new OS? Why would a small developer put themselves in that position deliberately? This is simply unrealistic and unsympathetic to expect someone to do. How is someone supposed to make a living? Are they just supposed to put themselves out just so they can try to woo people to adopt a new OS and then sit back and hope against hope that people will in fact like their game enough to update their OS for it? What would you have developers do? thanks, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Sep 11, 2013, at 2:10 PM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. the problem, and the thing you and other developers don't seem to get, is that all the hip software upgrades and big number features in the world don't actually matter. yes, I could probably get used to the new interface, and probably live without older games, but why should I? Microsoft have created a system which does have a learning curve, especially in it's lack of personal customization, (had they included propper backwards compatibility and interface control that would've been different, but they haven't). Myself, if you or other developers started! saying look, this is a really cool feature that this game can use, like that tags idea and it comes with windows 8, here! is a good reason to upgrade then I'd considder upgrading. Why did I buy an iphone and get used to vo? because basically there were lots of fun things that I couldn't do with an xp laptop. Back when windows 7 originally came out this is exactly what I expected would happen, and by this point in time I expected actually good reasons to upgrade, a hole bunch of games with newer and more interesting features that would be playable only on newer os, but they haven't appeared, indeed I can only think of one single audio game, airic the clerric which is windows 7 only, (and even that is being fixed). Yes, this means for a while people won't buy your games that are using xp
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Lol well said Tom and much better then I would put it. So there you go Dark. Have fun with xp until next spring. Btw, If you ever do upgrade to win7 I have an audio tutorial that may help you out. You are welcome to ask for it Whenever and I shall pass it along. Have a blessed day. Darren. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 2:50 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dark, I am afraid any answer we give will not satisfy you, because you are convinced you are right. So no answer we give will ever satisfy you. You want to know why? Its simple Dark has made up his mind that nothing but XP will ever bee good enough for him. XP does all he wants so other people's opinions, reasons, and personal experiences mean absolutely zero. So any answer we give will mean absolutely nothing to you. All I can say is that the rest of us have reasons, good reasons we consider pretty valid, even if you don't consider those reasons valid. It boils down to a personal opinion of value, and of course personal value is not something that can be measured with facts, statistics, or empirical evidence. Personal value is personal judgment, and I guess from that point of view there isn't a thing we can say to sway you towards a newer version of Windows. As for myself there are lots of things I like about Windows 7. Unlike you I actually find the Start Menu better laid out than in XP. All of my personal folders like Documents, Music, Pictures, Downloads, etc are on one side of the screen while the tree view containing my programs is on the other. I like this newer look and feel and find it easier to find things, because all of my personal folders are right there in an organized list rather than being scattered all over my desktop. My All Programs Menu is similarly organized. I have submenus for Games, Office, Tools, Development, etc and under those are the Submenus for each program in that category. So I have a great deal of organization in Windows 7 I didn't find in XP. The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the name of the program. Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing through all the open Windows on the Taskbar. Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc. A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time. Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate it to your computer by voice? Something else I particularly like about Windows 8 is the introduction of apps to the Windows OS. Apps are basically miniature programs that run in the background all the time, and have a specific feature such as displaying today's headline news, the weather, stock reports, and various other things of that sort. Sure, I recognize apps aren't for everyone, but for me personally I'd sooner have them than not have them because I can just click on the weather app, for example, and get an idea of the current temp, a weather forecast, and not have to go online to look that information up. Although, I don't have a lot of experience with touchscreens and Windows 8 I know Windows 8 has touchscreen support, and NVDA 2013.2 works with touchscreens too. I fully expect the next desktop or laptop I buy will have a touchscreen and I like the idea of simply pointing at the screen and double tapping an icon rather than tabbing all over creation to find
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
yeah I was one of those. I think my main gripe was the switching of jaws and other licenced software to xp and then to use pro xp to switch again. The only good thing was that dolphin adjusted all its licences to one thing and once you have a pro jaws licence it stays pro. in fact there is no reason to buy a standard licence of some of these programs. At 05:36 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: Hi Trouble, I think if a lot of the users had a choice in the matter they would still be running Win 98. Maybe they've forgotten but when XP came out there were a lot of Win 98 users who refused to upgrade to XP etc until they absolutely, positively, had to. Well, I am sure many of the people refusing to update to Windows 8 are probably the same people who said they'd never upgrade to XP but did anyway. For some people change is hard and they rudely have to be yanked kicking and screaming into the future along with a good boot to the rear end for good measure. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Only one thing to say about this. How come you xp users are not using win98 after all it still works and all the game made for the blind do work on it. And on another note all blind computer users in the past3 years maybe more are using win7 and up. Because that is what the orgs buy them today. You may not like upgrades but manufacture do them and we as consumers have no say in that. Like they say money talks and the past fades away like dos. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi all, Apologies for this note. Should have gone out last night and mysteriously just went out now. Am s over this thread so the last thing I want to do is contribute to it today! :) So please disregard. Thankie and have a great day! Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Sep 12, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote: Not the point. :) Charles and others have expressed no interest in moving to linux. If they do, then we'll talk. :) Seriously though, if they did want to move to linux, then money would be one less roadblock to them for upgrades. Have an awesome night! Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Sep 11, 2013, at 8:08 PM, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: so linux is not capitalism? people make money off of it, just look at redhat for instance. and yet linux is free to for desktop users. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/11/2013 11:03 PM, Cara Quinn wrote: Charles, this is capitalism! I can't believe I'm hearing this! lol! this is the economic system we have had in this country since it's inception! Microsoft is offering a service by providing an OS so you can run your computers. For this they should be paid. As they revise this OS then they should be again paid for their work. Nothing says they need to support an older product or service. They've already been more than generous and to ask anything more is simply crossing the boundary of reason. I'm not saying this as any kind of value judgement toward you or anyone else here, this is simply a fact in regard to the way the technology industries across the world relate to our capitalist economic system here in this country. Make sense? Thanks and great post! Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Sep 11, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: You're thinking of getting Windows 8.1. Can 8.2 be far behind? If you want to stay current, here you go again. This might be an exaggerated example, but the same principle applies. Microsoft has to keep making money, and you have to give it to them. It's a never ending problem. And who gets more benefit from it? Microsoft. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Shaun, Well, with Windows 8.1 about to come out in a couple of months I'd say just skip Windows 8 and go to Windows 8.1. I'm glad I didn't spend much on a Windows 8 upgrade for my Toshiba, because I am looking at going to Windows 8.1 for my primary Windows box which I use for Windows software development. I always try to keep that system up to date. However, as for running a server with multiple operating systems it can be done, but you need quite a lot of CPU power and ram to pull it off effectively. I'd recommend a desktop PC with a 64-bit duel core processor and at least 4 GB of ram, and even better if you hav say 8 GB or so on that box to play with. Since virtual machines seem to run better on Linux I'd suggest using Linux as the Host operating system, and run various flavors of Windows in VMWare Player in order to cut down the system resources for the host. The only catch 22 is that Windows 7 and Windows 8 really need direct access to your graphics card, rather than emulated, so its not as good in that case. However, it really depends on which OS you will be using most. If Windows 7 were your primary then use it as the host and everything else as guest operating systems. Cheers! On 9/11/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well I still use xp for my old games and I will probably always use xp or have an xp system at least. win7 though is good and I have a 7 system. My basic home work for when I am not on the road ie gaming, etc seems to favor xp over 7 right now but once people like gma upgrade their stuff that may be behind me. The real reason I don't really hit 7 unless I need it is because I still have working xp system with better speakers than my 7 box though as I said its the older games I mainly play here. I do use 7 all the time. sadly though my network admin jobs for most things are 7 and 8 quite a lot of machines a third of them are still using xp so I also still use xp daily. my eventual hope is to get a server with windows on it and maybe have vms of linux xp and other oses or have them direct though I am not sure how I'd start one the server then be able to boot different vertual
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
I also aggree its just in the case with ms it happens suddenly and sometimes for no clear purpose. ie the xp core At 07:20 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: has never given me that much issue. Then they just managed to get the vista core to a point I could accept it for what it was generally then they had to release windows 8. the interface is a ear full and the ribbon system while sounds good I guess does not make sence at all. I'd be happy to just have a basic os interface the search ability is good but over that well I don't know. I find myself using the home xp box more than the win7 box because its easier to do games and other things. on the road the 7 box is really good especially if I want to find things fast. II agree change is good. On 9/12/13, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Alternately, produce something awesome and only make it available where the bulk of your users are. If that means XP gets nothing, then so be it - it'll be incentive to get people off 12 year old operating systems. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Ken, You may be right, but as I said its a catch 22. I could probably write a brand spanking new game for windows 8 using XAudio2 for 3d audio, use SFML tags with SAPI for more expressive speech output, could add touchscreen support, but if my customer base is one out of every ten that has Windows 8 I could be setting myself up for a huge financial loss hoping that the other nine out of ten buy Windows 8 upgrades to play my game. As Charles and others made plain not a lot of people have much money to spend on new computers and software and I'd be running a huge financial risk by doing that. Its smarter not to write a game with any of those features and make it backwards compatible with XP until such time the market changes and I can safely include those features without worrying about XP support so much. However, as Cara pointed out by so many users using XP you guys are pretty much restricting my choice in adding all these new features because its too much work to add without some pay off in the end. I guess the only solution for that is to write a prototype, a demo game, that includes all these features and let people have at it. Maybe if they saw this in action they might, just might be convinced, to change their minds. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Ken The PionEar kenwdow...@me.com wrote: I think that what we need is a good audio demo of what a game could be on Windows 8. As sighted people look at the screen shots of apps to see wether they might like the games, I think all the blind community needs is a good demo of what windows 8 is like and what its abilities are, especially in the realm of gaming. I think that in this case, sound and a good demo will speak louder than words alone. Check out my games at www.ThePionEar.net and my music, and that of my band, at www.ThePionEar.net/BlindLabyrinth.html . Also, check out, The Believer and Skeptic Show, at iTunes! If you want to reach me, you can call 419-744-0517, friend me on Facebook, (KenWDowney,) or write me at kenwdow...@me.com . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Lenron Brown Cell: 985-271-2832 Skype: ron.brown762 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
they will work on win8 with uac off and all the vb libs loaded but yeah I aggree if all devs could just chuck old vb 6 and other libs then there would be no reason bar old dos games which I hardly play anyway these days to go away from win xp and continue higher. At 07:22 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: oh now it would be so cool if jim kitchen's games worked on widnows8. and furthermore it would be excellent if his games took advantage of the emotion tags for windows8 sapi voices so the voices could sound more exciting and things when playing football! sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 02:49 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Dark, I am afraid any answer we give will not satisfy you, because you are convinced you are right. So no answer we give will ever satisfy you. You want to know why? Its simple Dark has made up his mind that nothing but XP will ever bee good enough for him. XP does all he wants so other people's opinions, reasons, and personal experiences mean absolutely zero. So any answer we give will mean absolutely nothing to you. All I can say is that the rest of us have reasons, good reasons we consider pretty valid, even if you don't consider those reasons valid. It boils down to a personal opinion of value, and of course personal value is not something that can be measured with facts, statistics, or empirical evidence. Personal value is personal judgment, and I guess from that point of view there isn't a thing we can say to sway you towards a newer version of Windows. As for myself there are lots of things I like about Windows 7. Unlike you I actually find the Start Menu better laid out than in XP. All of my personal folders like Documents, Music, Pictures, Downloads, etc are on one side of the screen while the tree view containing my programs is on the other. I like this newer look and feel and find it easier to find things, because all of my personal folders are right there in an organized list rather than being scattered all over my desktop. My All Programs Menu is similarly organized. I have submenus for Games, Office, Tools, Development, etc and under those are the Submenus for each program in that category. So I have a great deal of organization in Windows 7 I didn't find in XP. The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the name of the program. Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing through all the open Windows on the Taskbar. Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc. A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time. Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate it to your computer by voice? Something else I particularly like about Windows 8 is the introduction of apps to the Windows OS. Apps are basically miniature programs that run in the background all the time, and have a specific feature such as displaying today's headline news, the weather, stock reports, and various other things of that sort. Sure, I recognize apps aren't for everyone, but for me personally I'd sooner have them than not have them because I can just click on the weather app, for example, and get an idea of the current temp, a weather forecast, and not have to go online to look that information up. Although, I don't have a lot of experience with touchscreens and Windows 8 I know Windows 8 has touchscreen support, and NVDA 2013.2 works with touchscreens too. I fully expect the next desktop or laptop I buy will have a touchscreen and I like
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Dark, I am afraid any answer we give will not satisfy you, because you are convinced you are right. So no answer we give will ever satisfy you. You want to know why? Its simple Dark has made up his mind that nothing but XP will ever bee good enough for him. XP does all he wants so other people's opinions, reasons, and personal experiences mean absolutely zero. So any answer we give will mean absolutely nothing to you. All I can say is that the rest of us have reasons, good reasons we consider pretty valid, even if you don't consider those reasons valid. It boils down to a personal opinion of value, and of course personal value is not something that can be measured with facts, statistics, or empirical evidence. Personal value is personal judgment, and I guess from that point of view there isn't a thing we can say to sway you towards a newer version of Windows. As for myself there are lots of things I like about Windows 7. Unlike you I actually find the Start Menu better laid out than in XP. All of my personal folders like Documents, Music, Pictures, Downloads, etc are on one side of the screen while the tree view containing my programs is on the other. I like this newer look and feel and find it easier to find things, because all of my personal folders are right there in an organized list rather than being scattered all over my desktop. My All Programs Menu is similarly organized. I have submenus for Games, Office, Tools, Development, etc and under those are the Submenus for each program in that category. So I have a great deal of organization in Windows 7 I didn't find in XP. The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the name of the program. Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing through all the open Windows on the Taskbar. Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc. A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time. Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate it to your computer by voice? Something else I particularly like about Windows 8 is the introduction of apps to the Windows OS. Apps are basically miniature programs that run in the background all the time, and have a specific feature such as displaying today's headline news, the weather, stock reports, and various other things of that sort. Sure, I recognize apps aren't for everyone, but for me personally I'd sooner have them than not have them because I can just click on the weather app, for example, and get an idea of the current temp, a weather forecast, and not have to go online to look that information up. Although, I don't have a lot of experience with touchscreens and Windows 8 I know Windows 8 has touchscreen support, and NVDA 2013.2 works with touchscreens too. I fully expect the next desktop or laptop I buy will have a touchscreen and I like the idea of simply pointing at the screen and double tapping an icon rather than tabbing all over creation to find it and then pressing enter etc. Add to those features that Windows 7 and Windows 8 have better security features such as User Account Control, Windows Defender, Microsoft Security Essentials, I felt upgrading was well worth the money I paid for it. That might not personally be worth it to you, but it was for me and a lot of others. So to answer your question on what you are missing out on is quite a lot. However, those things you are missing out on apparently not importent enough to you to justify upgrading. That's the
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Nor is pointing out the catch-22 that people who refuse to upgrade are creating by refusing to upgrade, regardless of their reasons for doing so. If people just wait to upgrade their machines until more games come out or whatever they're going to be waiting a long time. And anyway what happens once yyour XP computer dies and you're forced to get a new one? I'm not an XP user anymore but if I were I'd much rather upgrade when I chose rather than be forced to do so by a hardware failure. Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 1:48 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users I thank you for your opinion, but not the tone of your message. I have clearly explained my position, and I have admitted myself that I admire much of touch screen technology, however I did not expect this sort of hostility. Really is not liking the windows 7 interface and wanting some good games for the system so much a crime? According to you it obviously is. goodbye. Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
I think the touch screen is quite good but support with windows is not like apple, anyway the blind traditionally started with the keyboard. I have been with such all my life and can't see the point of moving now. At 07:17 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: Hi tom. I actually fully agree with touch screens being a great technological alternative, indeed this is part of the reason I've considdered skipping windows 7 entirely and going onto 8, albeit I'd want to try one first particularly with seeing how supernova support goes. Again, I'm waiting for the games and applications just like ios has. Btw, to be honest I don't really see why commercial thinking is playing such a part in this debate anyway. You yourself have only ever created one commercial game, which (by no fault of your own), didn't work. The community is made up of hobby developers who aren't! in it for the money, indeed if aprone said he was going to make an awsome windows 8 game which was donation only that would be good enough for me. Really, is the difference between 100 sales and 50 sales (which as I've indicated will be 100 in the long run as people like myself choose to upgrade), so great that you won't use these supposedly awsome new features you keep talking about? And how about free games? You keep saying windows xp is a bad investment, then why not make a better one yourselves and trust people to follow you. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Trouble, I think if a lot of the users had a choice in the matter they would still be running Win 98. Maybe they've forgotten but when XP came out there were a lot of Win 98 users who refused to upgrade to XP etc until they absolutely, positively, had to. Well, I am sure many of the people refusing to update to Windows 8 are probably the same people who said they'd never upgrade to XP but did anyway. For some people change is hard and they rudely have to be yanked kicking and screaming into the future along with a good boot to the rear end for good measure. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Only one thing to say about this. How come you xp users are not using win98 after all it still works and all the game made for the blind do work on it. And on another note all blind computer users in the past3 years maybe more are using win7 and up. Because that is what the orgs buy them today. You may not like upgrades but manufacture do them and we as consumers have no say in that. Like they say money talks and the past fades away like dos. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
the only reason I have stayed 32 bit to be honest is that apart from a few codecs and some stuff most of my software 99% is 32 bit. There is simply no insentive to switch. all my software ran on xp with 2gb ram on a core2 duo and it has an i5 and double the ram. At 09:22 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: That would be cool. Got win 7 64 pro here so would be good to go... -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:25 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dennis, Don't tempt me. I have honestly thought about that. I have considered just supporting 64-bit systems, and that would wipe out all the XP users in one sweep. Of course, people running 32-bit upgrades of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 would get caught up in the sweep so not a good idea. LOL! Cheers! On 9/12/13, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Alternately, produce something awesome and only make it available where the bulk of your users are. If that means XP gets nothing, then so be it - it'll be incentive to get people off 12 year old operating systems. Dennis Towne --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
that was my main gripe about win8, I don't mind the win7 search interface but the win8 tile interface. Yes I understand how good it is but for the blind it just doesn't make sence right now. nvda is the only thing that supports for now touch jaws will do so soon but even so. At 01:59 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: hI there I heard that Win 8.1 had the option to go back to the win 7 or xp lay out. like xp did where you can go back to classic view. is that true? I don't realy have a problem with win 8 now it just takes some getting use to. bfn James -- From: Chris H christopher...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 1:06 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users See how you feel when Windows 8.1 is out. I have the preview as a guet and I like it much more over 8. On 12/09/2013 06:29, James Bartlett wrote: Hello there tell me about it. My Win 7 pc died on me and now I'm stock using my old XP pc. my wife has Win 8 on her lap top, but it's a pain for me to use because I'm just not use to using a lap top keyboard, and JAWS 14 slows down her pc big time. So All I have on that is NVDA, and I'm just not use to using NVDA, but I still perfer to use that over my xp. the only reason I kept it was just so I can play games that win 7 and 8 dosen't serport. Man I can't wait to get my win 7 back up and running. bfn James --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
I aggree, I can remember when I switched to win xp or even ie 5 I saw no advantage. some of this new stuff may just take longer for me to stomach but eventually well who knows. so many tablets anyway I will probably have a couple pcs and at least 1 or 2 tablets eventually anyway so who knows. At 02:13 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: hI there To be fair not everyone is going to like a piece of softwear that is why there is so many different types of OS's out there. that is what makes the world go around. If he tried win 7 and din't like it then why should he use it? if what he likes is XP then why not use the hell out of it? well that is untill there is no serport for it. bfn James -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:50 AM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Well darren what the hell am I actually missing out on? when I say I don't like windows 7's interface, I mean that on the basis of experience, perhaps not extensive experience, but certainly not nothing. As I said, I could well get used to it, but why should I? Learning the iphone interface was a challenge I admit, however it was well worth my while because of the games and other useful applications I got out of it. Is the same true for windows 7 or 8? will I get anything better to compensate me for the inconvenience? This is the point it seems people don't understand, so I'm not using the latest version with the biggest numbers and most swanky hardware, well so what? I really couldn't care less. To missquote a famous american president, ask not what you can do for your computer but what your computer can do for you :D. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Darren Duff duff...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Wow dark, I feel bad for you dude. You are being quite stubborn, and missing out on so much! Sounds like you don't like change very much. This is all just my opinion. -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:56 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users However again tom, you say a newer and better computer Suppose say winamp's next version won't work on xp, well is it's next version any better than the previous one? Heck, I don't have the latest version of winamp now, mostly because what I do with winamp is quite okay anyway, indeed winamp only usually gets upgraded when I can be bothered. This is basically the problem with this philoosophy of you must have the latest upgrade my question is well why? I still own a snes, it still works, I still play games on it. Yes, there are plenty of other consoles with far better hardware and software, but none of them have as many playable games for me so why should I upgrade? yes, in a few years I might be forced to upgrade if my computer breaks, but if I'm going to spend a lot of money on a new machine, and learn a new interface I want some actual return on my investment. This is indeed why I waited myself back in 2008, in the hope that developers would make it worth my while to upgrade, but as yet nobody has, heck, if my computer died I'd be very tempted to get another xp machine just because I just don't see any bennifit in all the sshenanigans with a new os, all it would mean is losing outlook express, getting an inconvenient interface, and bad compatibility with several programs. I freely admit this situation may change, indeed I'd be very happy if it did and someone used these supposedly wondrous new features to create better games and software, but that just plane hasn't happened. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
That would be cool. Got win 7 64 pro here so would be good to go... -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:25 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dennis, Don't tempt me. I have honestly thought about that. I have considered just supporting 64-bit systems, and that would wipe out all the XP users in one sweep. Of course, people running 32-bit upgrades of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 would get caught up in the sweep so not a good idea. LOL! Cheers! On 9/12/13, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Alternately, produce something awesome and only make it available where the bulk of your users are. If that means XP gets nothing, then so be it - it'll be incentive to get people off 12 year old operating systems. Dennis Towne --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
hmmm I wonder if such games would run in virtual machines? if not I may need to eventually buy a refurbished machine with windows8 on it to play touch screen games but I have a feeling that won't happen for awhile yet. maybe 5 or 10 years or so. and remember thomas that me, personally? if I wanted to play touch screen based games I would just get an android or ipod touch or ipad. why lug around a windows8 laptop? I'd at least get a windows8 tablet and not a full laptop or full desktop for that purpose. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 02:59 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Dark, Well, one thing about Windows 8 has me excited is the support for touchscreens. I haven't looked into how to integrate that support into a game, but I think it would be awesome if any game of mine had touchscreen support and I could simply flick my fingers left or right to move in that direction etc. The only problem is even if I added it into a game the majority of blind gamers, I'd say about 99% right now, don't have the hardware or software to make adding it into a game worth my time. So until I see more Windows 8 users I'm probably not going to put that list of potential features high on my list to develop. At least not right away. The reason I would not do so is for very practical reasons. If you are running XP and I want to sell a game to you that means I have to make the game XP compatible. I would be better off not adding some features and extra code that I'd have to rewrite or completely remove to run on XP.So everyone does without. So if you are waiting on me to create a game with all the new technologies it will never happen until you upgrade first. Once you do and then I'd consider upgrading my game with new features. :D Cheers! On 9/12/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Well tom I wasn't around for any of the previous debates, but please don't missrepresent my position. I never said I won't upgrade, only that I want a good reason to. if you think you can make something good with all these new audio and what not, go ahead, and it is that very fact which would make me want to upgrade. Beware the Grue! Dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
I'd second this. I can't think of any software, let alone games, that runs well on xp, does not run on windows 7, and wasn't designed for windows 9x. If you have specific data, please share with us. - Original Message - From: Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Date sent: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 15:21:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Charles Rivard wrote: The majority of blind gamers still use XP because they like it, it works, and there are products that we have already bought that work on it. I question this assertion. References and documentation please. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
If you support 64 bit systems only, wiping out all XP users entirely, you've just wiped out your income from would-be customers. Kill your business in order to keep up with current technology? Not smart at all. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dennis, Don't tempt me. I have honestly thought about that. I have considered just supporting 64-bit systems, and that would wipe out all the XP users in one sweep. Of course, people running 32-bit upgrades of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 would get caught up in the sweep so not a good idea. LOL! Cheers! On 9/12/13, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Alternately, produce something awesome and only make it available where the bulk of your users are. If that means XP gets nothing, then so be it - it'll be incentive to get people off 12 year old operating systems. Dennis Towne --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi, My thoughts exactly. Sure, most of the people here are running XP right now, but what are they going to do when that machine finally bites the dust. Not a single person has answered that question yet, nor have the addressed the problem of if I write games for XP now they are going to want me to support Windows 8 and beyond in the future. Right now I can do both, but if there comes a time where that changes well I'll just have to pick the newer technology and tell the XP users, too bad so sad. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Again, what happens to XP users when circumstances, as they inevitably will in time, force them to switch to a newer OS? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Dark, Well, one thing about Windows 8 has me excited is the support for touchscreens. I haven't looked into how to integrate that support into a game, but I think it would be awesome if any game of mine had touchscreen support and I could simply flick my fingers left or right to move in that direction etc. The only problem is even if I added it into a game the majority of blind gamers, I'd say about 99% right now, don't have the hardware or software to make adding it into a game worth my time. So until I see more Windows 8 users I'm probably not going to put that list of potential features high on my list to develop. At least not right away. The reason I would not do so is for very practical reasons. If you are running XP and I want to sell a game to you that means I have to make the game XP compatible. I would be better off not adding some features and extra code that I'd have to rewrite or completely remove to run on XP.So everyone does without. So if you are waiting on me to create a game with all the new technologies it will never happen until you upgrade first. Once you do and then I'd consider upgrading my game with new features. :D Cheers! On 9/12/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Well tom I wasn't around for any of the previous debates, but please don't missrepresent my position. I never said I won't upgrade, only that I want a good reason to. if you think you can make something good with all these new audio and what not, go ahead, and it is that very fact which would make me want to upgrade. Beware the Grue! Dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
I thank you for your opinion, but not the tone of your message. I have clearly explained my position, and I have admitted myself that I admire much of touch screen technology, however I did not expect this sort of hostility. Really is not liking the windows 7 interface and wanting some good games for the system so much a crime? According to you it obviously is. goodbye. Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Love the new features On 9/12/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: oh now it would be so cool if jim kitchen's games worked on widnows8. and furthermore it would be excellent if his games took advantage of the emotion tags for windows8 sapi voices so the voices could sound more exciting and things when playing football! sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 02:49 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Dark, I am afraid any answer we give will not satisfy you, because you are convinced you are right. So no answer we give will ever satisfy you. You want to know why? Its simple Dark has made up his mind that nothing but XP will ever bee good enough for him. XP does all he wants so other people's opinions, reasons, and personal experiences mean absolutely zero. So any answer we give will mean absolutely nothing to you. All I can say is that the rest of us have reasons, good reasons we consider pretty valid, even if you don't consider those reasons valid. It boils down to a personal opinion of value, and of course personal value is not something that can be measured with facts, statistics, or empirical evidence. Personal value is personal judgment, and I guess from that point of view there isn't a thing we can say to sway you towards a newer version of Windows. As for myself there are lots of things I like about Windows 7. Unlike you I actually find the Start Menu better laid out than in XP. All of my personal folders like Documents, Music, Pictures, Downloads, etc are on one side of the screen while the tree view containing my programs is on the other. I like this newer look and feel and find it easier to find things, because all of my personal folders are right there in an organized list rather than being scattered all over my desktop. My All Programs Menu is similarly organized. I have submenus for Games, Office, Tools, Development, etc and under those are the Submenus for each program in that category. So I have a great deal of organization in Windows 7 I didn't find in XP. The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the name of the program. Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing through all the open Windows on the Taskbar. Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc. A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time. Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate it to your computer by voice? Something else I particularly like about Windows 8 is the introduction of apps to the Windows OS. Apps are basically miniature programs that run in the background all the time, and have a specific feature such as displaying today's headline news, the weather, stock reports, and various other things of that sort. Sure, I recognize apps aren't for everyone, but for me personally I'd sooner have them than not have them because I can just click on the weather app, for example, and get an idea of the current temp, a weather forecast, and not have to go online to look that information up. Although, I don't have a lot of experience with touchscreens and Windows 8 I know Windows 8 has touchscreen support, and NVDA 2013.2 works with touchscreens too. I fully expect the next desktop or laptop I buy will have a touchscreen and I like the idea of simply pointing at the screen and double tapping an icon rather than tabbing all over creation to find it and then pressing enter etc. Add to those
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
That's why there should be a version that will take advantage of the newer technology in the works, slowly being developed, as well as one that will work on XP that is more quickly developed. If we like the XP compatible version and we must migrate to the newer OS, we will gladly pay for the newer version that will probably have better performance and more options. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Charles, Smile. I was only joking. I wouldn't actually do that precisely for that reason. USA Games needs to make money, and unfortunately we are held hostage to a user base that will not upgrade to a newer OS for whatever reason. The only thing we can do as developers is try to support both as for as long as we can , and when that is no longer possible then we have to make a judgment based on what will be best for the product long term rather than the short term. I can tell you right now selecting XP because it has the most customers right now is not good in the long term, because in five to ten years that situation will likely change. People will be running something a lot newer than XP, and they will thank me for supporting the new platform rather than developing for XP and not taking in account any thought about tomorrow. Let's give you an example, and I am truly interested to get your point of view on this. I know you bought Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge through preorder sales. You'll be getting copies of them when it is released. However, imagine that PC you have breaks down and you decide to go out and buy a new computer with Windows 8 on it. How would you feel if I said, sorry, it doesn't run on Windows 8? You said you wanted me to develop it for XP so I didn't take any consideration for Windows 8 users. Now, how would you feel? Would you have to eat your words about XP support once the shoe is firmly on the other foot? Cheers! On 9/12/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: If you support 64 bit systems only, wiping out all XP users entirely, you've just wiped out your income from would-be customers. Kill your business in order to keep up with current technology? Not smart at all. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Josh, I think you are missing the point. A lot of the people don't want Windows 8 so why would they go to New Egg or Blair Technologies and get a laptop and put Windows 8 on it? As for Android Tablets I have tried one out, I like it, but the fact of the matter is Android acccessibility is still very basic, not up to iOS standards, there aren't many games for it, and developers aren't going to write games for a platform with few potential customers. Not if he or she is trying to make money at it. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: people could get refurbished computers from blair technology or newegg and just put windows8 on them. or better yet get an android tablet and just make the games for tablets. I'd rather play touch screen games on tablets anyway than have them on a full laptop which is part touch screen pretending to try to be a tablet. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Running Windows 8 here, so I'm ready to go whenever the new games come out. Definitely can't wait to play with tomb hunter again. Twitter michaelsreiser Skype michael-rei...@comcast.net Facebook mikereiser08@gmail.netSent from my iPhone On Sep 12, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, My thoughts exactly. Sure, most of the people here are running XP right now, but what are they going to do when that machine finally bites the dust. Not a single person has answered that question yet, nor have the addressed the problem of if I write games for XP now they are going to want me to support Windows 8 and beyond in the future. Right now I can do both, but if there comes a time where that changes well I'll just have to pick the newer technology and tell the XP users, too bad so sad. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Again, what happens to XP users when circumstances, as they inevitably will in time, force them to switch to a newer OS? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Charles Rivard wrote: The majority of blind gamers still use XP because they like it, it works, and there are products that we have already bought that work on it. I question this assertion. References and documentation please. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Posts like this one are convincing. We get your firsthand experiences with the newer technology and why you think upgrading is worth it. On the other side, what games will not work with this platform? You've stated what we would gain. What would we lose? And what will this upgrade cost as far as the hardware we must buy to accommodate it? Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dark, I am afraid any answer we give will not satisfy you, because you are convinced you are right. So no answer we give will ever satisfy you. You want to know why? Its simple Dark has made up his mind that nothing but XP will ever bee good enough for him. XP does all he wants so other people's opinions, reasons, and personal experiences mean absolutely zero. So any answer we give will mean absolutely nothing to you. All I can say is that the rest of us have reasons, good reasons we consider pretty valid, even if you don't consider those reasons valid. It boils down to a personal opinion of value, and of course personal value is not something that can be measured with facts, statistics, or empirical evidence. Personal value is personal judgment, and I guess from that point of view there isn't a thing we can say to sway you towards a newer version of Windows. As for myself there are lots of things I like about Windows 7. Unlike you I actually find the Start Menu better laid out than in XP. All of my personal folders like Documents, Music, Pictures, Downloads, etc are on one side of the screen while the tree view containing my programs is on the other. I like this newer look and feel and find it easier to find things, because all of my personal folders are right there in an organized list rather than being scattered all over my desktop. My All Programs Menu is similarly organized. I have submenus for Games, Office, Tools, Development, etc and under those are the Submenus for each program in that category. So I have a great deal of organization in Windows 7 I didn't find in XP. The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the name of the program. Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing through all the open Windows on the Taskbar. Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc. A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time. Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate it to your computer by voice? Something else I particularly like about Windows 8 is the introduction of apps to the Windows OS. Apps are basically miniature programs that run in the background all the time, and have a specific feature such as displaying today's headline news, the weather, stock reports, and various other things of that sort. Sure, I recognize apps aren't for everyone, but for me personally I'd sooner have them than not have them because I can just click on the weather app, for example, and get an idea of the current temp, a weather forecast, and not have to go online to look that information up. Although, I don't have a lot of experience with touchscreens and Windows 8 I know Windows 8 has touchscreen support, and NVDA 2013.2 works with touchscreens too. I fully expect the next desktop or laptop I buy will have a touchscreen and I like
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Well tom I wasn't around for any of the previous debates, but please don't missrepresent my position. I never said I won't upgrade, only that I want a good reason to. if you think you can make something good with all these new audio and what not, go ahead, and it is that very fact which would make me want to upgrade. Beware the Grue! Dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Charles, Smile. I was only joking. I wouldn't actually do that precisely for that reason. USA Games needs to make money, and unfortunately we are held hostage to a user base that will not upgrade to a newer OS for whatever reason. The only thing we can do as developers is try to support both as for as long as we can , and when that is no longer possible then we have to make a judgment based on what will be best for the product long term rather than the short term. I can tell you right now selecting XP because it has the most customers right now is not good in the long term, because in five to ten years that situation will likely change. People will be running something a lot newer than XP, and they will thank me for supporting the new platform rather than developing for XP and not taking in account any thought about tomorrow. Let's give you an example, and I am truly interested to get your point of view on this. I know you bought Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge through preorder sales. You'll be getting copies of them when it is released. However, imagine that PC you have breaks down and you decide to go out and buy a new computer with Windows 8 on it. How would you feel if I said, sorry, it doesn't run on Windows 8? You said you wanted me to develop it for XP so I didn't take any consideration for Windows 8 users. Now, how would you feel? Would you have to eat your words about XP support once the shoe is firmly on the other foot? Cheers! On 9/12/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: If you support 64 bit systems only, wiping out all XP users entirely, you've just wiped out your income from would-be customers. Kill your business in order to keep up with current technology? Not smart at all. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Alternately, produce something awesome and only make it available where the bulk of your users are. If that means XP gets nothing, then so be it - it'll be incentive to get people off 12 year old operating systems. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Ken, You may be right, but as I said its a catch 22. I could probably write a brand spanking new game for windows 8 using XAudio2 for 3d audio, use SFML tags with SAPI for more expressive speech output, could add touchscreen support, but if my customer base is one out of every ten that has Windows 8 I could be setting myself up for a huge financial loss hoping that the other nine out of ten buy Windows 8 upgrades to play my game. As Charles and others made plain not a lot of people have much money to spend on new computers and software and I'd be running a huge financial risk by doing that. Its smarter not to write a game with any of those features and make it backwards compatible with XP until such time the market changes and I can safely include those features without worrying about XP support so much. However, as Cara pointed out by so many users using XP you guys are pretty much restricting my choice in adding all these new features because its too much work to add without some pay off in the end. I guess the only solution for that is to write a prototype, a demo game, that includes all these features and let people have at it. Maybe if they saw this in action they might, just might be convinced, to change their minds. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Ken The PionEar kenwdow...@me.com wrote: I think that what we need is a good audio demo of what a game could be on Windows 8. As sighted people look at the screen shots of apps to see wether they might like the games, I think all the blind community needs is a good demo of what windows 8 is like and what its abilities are, especially in the realm of gaming. I think that in this case, sound and a good demo will speak louder than words alone. Check out my games at www.ThePionEar.net and my music, and that of my band, at www.ThePionEar.net/BlindLabyrinth.html . Also, check out, The Believer and Skeptic Show, at iTunes! If you want to reach me, you can call 419-744-0517, friend me on Facebook, (KenWDowney,) or write me at kenwdow...@me.com . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Which would require two separate versions. I think it's pretty safe to say no developer will want to do that. It would be one thing to develop a Windows version and then an IOS version but I somehow don't imagine any developer's going to want to develop an IOS version, then an XP version and then a version for the newer Windows OS. Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? -Original Message- From: Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:39 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users That's why there should be a version that will take advantage of the newer technology in the works, slowly being developed, as well as one that will work on XP that is more quickly developed. If we like the XP compatible version and we must migrate to the newer OS, we will gladly pay for the newer version that will probably have better performance and more options. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Charles, Smile. I was only joking. I wouldn't actually do that precisely for that reason. USA Games needs to make money, and unfortunately we are held hostage to a user base that will not upgrade to a newer OS for whatever reason. The only thing we can do as developers is try to support both as for as long as we can , and when that is no longer possible then we have to make a judgment based on what will be best for the product long term rather than the short term. I can tell you right now selecting XP because it has the most customers right now is not good in the long term, because in five to ten years that situation will likely change. People will be running something a lot newer than XP, and they will thank me for supporting the new platform rather than developing for XP and not taking in account any thought about tomorrow. Let's give you an example, and I am truly interested to get your point of view on this. I know you bought Raceway and Montezuma's Revenge through preorder sales. You'll be getting copies of them when it is released. However, imagine that PC you have breaks down and you decide to go out and buy a new computer with Windows 8 on it. How would you feel if I said, sorry, it doesn't run on Windows 8? You said you wanted me to develop it for XP so I didn't take any consideration for Windows 8 users. Now, how would you feel? Would you have to eat your words about XP support once the shoe is firmly on the other foot? Cheers! On 9/12/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: If you support 64 bit systems only, wiping out all XP users entirely, you've just wiped out your income from would-be customers. Kill your business in order to keep up with current technology? Not smart at all. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Dennis, Don't tempt me. I have honestly thought about that. I have considered just supporting 64-bit systems, and that would wipe out all the XP users in one sweep. Of course, people running 32-bit upgrades of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 would get caught up in the sweep so not a good idea. LOL! Cheers! On 9/12/13, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Alternately, produce something awesome and only make it available where the bulk of your users are. If that means XP gets nothing, then so be it - it'll be incentive to get people off 12 year old operating systems. Dennis Towne --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Tom and Charles, The idea of developing for the majority of customers, assuming that the majority are using XP, falls apart when you take a long-term view. Like it or not, everyone is going to have to abandon XP sooner or later, and probably sooner. No more updates means no fixes to newly discovered security holes, for example. If you don't care about viruses/your personal information, then I guess you can use it, but I think most do care bout such things. So, developing for the majority of customers who are currently using XP, means that you're creating software that, in very short order, will be useless at worst or require significant rewriting at best. It's kinda like saying, I'm going to buy this candy bar because I can enjoy it right *now*…and I won't worry about the fact that I'm spending my bus fair to get home tonight. The real problem here is that many, many users are mistakenly convinced that they can use XP forever, just as many were convinced that they could use DOS forever 15-20 years ago. As for cost, between VoiceOver, NVDA, and Orca, spending money on a screen reader is a choice, not a necessity for most users. There are always exceptions…but they are just that…exceptions. I haven't bought a new version of a commercial screen reader in 7 years, and haven't missed them a bit. I use VoiceOver on Mac primarily, and NVDA if I have to use Windows. We will support XP if we can do so without seriously crippling our ability to develop new titles. When that day inevitably comes, we will move on. Fortunately, the computer market is shifting, and a significant portion of our customers are Mac users, where this problem is pretty much moot. For about $20 you can upgrade to the latest version of the OS, and your screen reader is included. Since Mac sales have been significantly better than Windows ones…we're not too worried about it these days. After all, eventually, Windows users will be forced to abandon XP, and when they are, we'll be there…whether it is on a new version of Windows, Mac, or iOS device. On Sep 11, 2013, at 7:05 PM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Charles, I see your point, but as a matter of fact Windows is not my primary operating system. I use Linux on most of my computers so for me upgrading to Windows 8.1 is a small investment because it would only be for one machine. However, to answer your question it would depend on how much of a difference between Windows 8.1 and say this fictional 8.2 would be. If there were features and updates I could not get in any other way and I wanted them sure I'd buy it if I had the money. If not I might wait a year or two to upgrade. The thing is you are comparing apples and oranges because the situation of Windows XP and Windows 8 is a totally different situation. XP is many years behind Windows 8 in terms of features and components and will no longer be maintained. Upgrading from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 is a fairly minor upgrade in the scheme of things, and if there was such a thing as Windows 8.2 it would likely be a minor upgrade as well. So not upgrading would be less serious than the one you are in with XP. Cheers! On 9/11/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: You're thinking of getting Windows 8.1. Can 8.2 be far behind? If you want to stay current, here you go again. This might be an exaggerated example, but the same principle applies. Microsoft has to keep making money, and you have to give it to them. It's a never ending problem. And who gets more benefit from it? Microsoft. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
I'll have the best of everything having licensed copies of windows xp windows7 and windows8 running in vmware player. As long as vmware player has xp support I'll still use xp for some old dos games but windows8 for the rest I think. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 06:10 PM, Bryan Peterson wrote: The question is what happens once circumstances force those XP users to upgrade, which they inevitably will in time. Computers die sooner or later, and your new computer might not be equipped to handle having an older OS installed. We might lose certain older games but we'llhave access to newer ones. Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? -Original Message- From: Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:03 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Exactly my point when it comes to switching from XP. Developers aren't going to develop for a platform that their customers don't use. The majority of blind gamers still use XP because they like it, it works, and there are products that we have already bought that work on it. Those products may not work with the new Windows platform which is not as blind friendly to operate. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Josh, I think you are missing the point. A lot of the people don't want Windows 8 so why would they go to New Egg or Blair Technologies and get a laptop and put Windows 8 on it? As for Android Tablets I have tried one out, I like it, but the fact of the matter is Android acccessibility is still very basic, not up to iOS standards, there aren't many games for it, and developers aren't going to write games for a platform with few potential customers. Not if he or she is trying to make money at it. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: people could get refurbished computers from blair technology or newegg and just put windows8 on them. or better yet get an android tablet and just make the games for tablets. I'd rather play touch screen games on tablets anyway than have them on a full laptop which is part touch screen pretending to try to be a tablet. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
I mentioned android because you don't need a mac to develop for it. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 06:19 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: It's a catch 22. If you build it, he will come. A thought: How about producing games for iDevices that have touch screens? --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dark, Well, one thing about Windows 8 has me excited is the support for touchscreens. I haven't looked into how to integrate that support into a game, but I think it would be awesome if any game of mine had touchscreen support and I could simply flick my fingers left or right to move in that direction etc. The only problem is even if I added it into a game the majority of blind gamers, I'd say about 99% right now, don't have the hardware or software to make adding it into a game worth my time. So until I see more Windows 8 users I'm probably not going to put that list of potential features high on my list to develop. At least not right away. The reason I would not do so is for very practical reasons. If you are running XP and I want to sell a game to you that means I have to make the game XP compatible. I would be better off not adding some features and extra code that I'd have to rewrite or completely remove to run on XP.So everyone does without. So if you are waiting on me to create a game with all the new technologies it will never happen until you upgrade first. Once you do and then I'd consider upgrading my game with new features. :D Cheers! On 9/12/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Well tom I wasn't around for any of the previous debates, but please don't missrepresent my position. I never said I won't upgrade, only that I want a good reason to. if you think you can make something good with all these new audio and what not, go ahead, and it is that very fact which would make me want to upgrade. Beware the Grue! Dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
you won't lose anything. want to play the new tech games while keeping the old xp and pre-xp games around? vmware player is the answer and it is not that hard to set up. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 06:25 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: Posts like this one are convincing. We get your firsthand experiences with the newer technology and why you think upgrading is worth it. On the other side, what games will not work with this platform? You've stated what we would gain. What would we lose? And what will this upgrade cost as far as the hardware we must buy to accommodate it? Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dark, I am afraid any answer we give will not satisfy you, because you are convinced you are right. So no answer we give will ever satisfy you. You want to know why? Its simple Dark has made up his mind that nothing but XP will ever bee good enough for him. XP does all he wants so other people's opinions, reasons, and personal experiences mean absolutely zero. So any answer we give will mean absolutely nothing to you. All I can say is that the rest of us have reasons, good reasons we consider pretty valid, even if you don't consider those reasons valid. It boils down to a personal opinion of value, and of course personal value is not something that can be measured with facts, statistics, or empirical evidence. Personal value is personal judgment, and I guess from that point of view there isn't a thing we can say to sway you towards a newer version of Windows. As for myself there are lots of things I like about Windows 7. Unlike you I actually find the Start Menu better laid out than in XP. All of my personal folders like Documents, Music, Pictures, Downloads, etc are on one side of the screen while the tree view containing my programs is on the other. I like this newer look and feel and find it easier to find things, because all of my personal folders are right there in an organized list rather than being scattered all over my desktop. My All Programs Menu is similarly organized. I have submenus for Games, Office, Tools, Development, etc and under those are the Submenus for each program in that category. So I have a great deal of organization in Windows 7 I didn't find in XP. The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the name of the program. Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing through all the open Windows on the Taskbar. Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc. A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time. Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate it to your computer by voice? Something else I particularly like about Windows 8 is the introduction of apps to the Windows OS. Apps are basically miniature programs that run in the background all the time, and have a specific feature such as displaying today's headline news, the weather, stock reports, and various other things of that sort. Sure, I recognize apps aren't for everyone, but for me personally I'd sooner have them than not have them because I can just click on the weather app, for example, and get an idea of the current temp, a weather forecast, and not have to go online to look that information
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Charles, The main thing you would lose, assuming you got a new 64-bit system, is old 16-bit Dos support. This means old Dos games like the PCs Panzers in North Africa, Kick Boxing, PCs Monopoly, and Any Night Football wouldn't work. Also Eamon Deluxe doesn't work on Windows 8 either. However, the majority of audio games such as those from GMA, Draconis, L-Works, etc will work on Windows 8 once you reconfigure User Account Control, install VB 6, and basically install some older components that don't come with Windows 8. So in terms of older accessible games the loss is rather small. As for the rest of the software you are running that depends on how new it is, and when it was last updated etc. Obviously, there are some things like Jaws that needs to be running at least version 14 to work reasonable with Windows 8. Openbook needs to be upgraded to version 9 or later for newer versions of Windows as well. If you use say Nero you'll need a fairly current version as anything released before 8.0 or so won't work at all on Windows 7 or Windows 8. As far as Microsoft Office I think the minimum version that will run on Windows 8 is Office 2003. I don't know since I have Office 2007 and it works okay on Windows 8. I expect you may have to upgrade some software, but that comes with the territory. Many things will work okay, and some things won't. However, when it specifically coms to audio games most games I have tried I've managed to get working on Windows 8. Ironically, the only audio game I couldn't get working was STFC, the version on my web site, but I have a new one in development to take care of that problem. :D Cheers! On 9/12/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Posts like this one are convincing. We get your firsthand experiences with the newer technology and why you think upgrading is worth it. On the other side, what games will not work with this platform? You've stated what we would gain. What would we lose? And what will this upgrade cost as far as the hardware we must buy to accommodate it? Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
well I'd prefur to go for the updated versions ofcause. but stuff like shades of doom still uses the old direct sound libs and well, the fact is they are quite old no matter that the panning works nicly. I think for now at least making all the game engines bgt, etc to use the modern tech if they are already not doing so that should at least slown down the decline. However its good we are having this debate now because its always crossed my mind how nice it would be to convert totally to new stuff without bothering about old software and extra stuff to use. At 11:21 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: Hi Charles, Here is the bottom line. It is extra work. In some cases extra work that does not benefit me personally in any, way, shape or form. To give you an example I am working on a version of Tomb Hunter designed from a 3d first-person point of view. Therefore I need to have decent 5.1 surround sound and 3d audio support. There is a technical problem with this though. DirectSound 8, the library XP uses, works fine on Windows XP, but does not work correctly on Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8. So if I satisfy my XP customers by using DirectSound everyone running Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8 won't be able to play the game at all because the audio API is broken. To fix it I have to yank out the DirectSound code and replace it with something else like XAudio2. That involves a boat load of extra work, time, and personal frustration just to fix something I could have avoided to start with. From the way it sounds you think I should resolve this by charging upgrade fees. That is to say I can charge $30 for the XP version, and if you later want the version for Windows 8 I can charge you $15 for the new version. Sounds fair to me, but I have a feeling that Windows 8 users would be pretty ticked off if I charged them $15 to fix a problem I could have avoided in the first place by not using DirectSound and by using the new libraries to begin with. Plus as a Windows 8 user I would not want to design my game using old libraries that are broken only to take days perhaps weeks fixing it after the fact. To heck with that! Cheers! On 9/12/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: That's why there should be a version that will take advantage of the newer technology in the works, slowly being developed, as well as one that will work on XP that is more quickly developed. If we like the XP compatible version and we must migrate to the newer OS, we will gladly pay for the newer version that will probably have better performance and more options. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Shaun, that's because DirectSound 8 is broken on Windows 7. Shades of Doom, GMA Tank Commander, and Sarah all have audio problems with Windows 7 and Windows 8 because DirectSound lost its 3d virtualization when Microsoft updated their mixer support. Microsoft's answer is upgrade to XAudio2, but of course no one is doing that yet. However, XAudio2 has a few bugs of its own I am not happy about, but anyway the issue with Shades of Doom etc is Directsound. Cheers! On 9/12/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: I could get shades of doom working but all the sounds sounded straight in front of me or behind me yes I could play it without the panning effects but it would be quite hard to do so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
I could get shades of doom working but all the sounds sounded straight in front of me or behind me yes I could play it without the panning effects but it would be quite hard to do so. At 10:58 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: Hi Charles, The main thing you would lose, assuming you got a new 64-bit system, is old 16-bit Dos support. This means old Dos games like the PCs Panzers in North Africa, Kick Boxing, PCs Monopoly, and Any Night Football wouldn't work. Also Eamon Deluxe doesn't work on Windows 8 either. However, the majority of audio games such as those from GMA, Draconis, L-Works, etc will work on Windows 8 once you reconfigure User Account Control, install VB 6, and basically install some older components that don't come with Windows 8. So in terms of older accessible games the loss is rather small. As for the rest of the software you are running that depends on how new it is, and when it was last updated etc. Obviously, there are some things like Jaws that needs to be running at least version 14 to work reasonable with Windows 8. Openbook needs to be upgraded to version 9 or later for newer versions of Windows as well. If you use say Nero you'll need a fairly current version as anything released before 8.0 or so won't work at all on Windows 7 or Windows 8. As far as Microsoft Office I think the minimum version that will run on Windows 8 is Office 2003. I don't know since I have Office 2007 and it works okay on Windows 8. I expect you may have to upgrade some software, but that comes with the territory. Many things will work okay, and some things won't. However, when it specifically coms to audio games most games I have tried I've managed to get working on Windows 8. Ironically, the only audio game I couldn't get working was STFC, the version on my web site, but I have a new one in development to take care of that problem. :D Cheers! On 9/12/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Posts like this one are convincing. We get your firsthand experiences with the newer technology and why you think upgrading is worth it. On the other side, what games will not work with this platform? You've stated what we would gain. What would we lose? And what will this upgrade cost as far as the hardware we must buy to accommodate it? Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Shaun, Well, unfortunately BGT still uses DirectSound for audio. The Streemway library BGT uses DirectSound, because there are some bugs in XAudio2 Phillip doesn't like and felt it was safer to stick with DirectSound for the moment than to update to XAudio2. However, that seems not to be a big problem because the games written in BGT like Q9 and Perilous Hearts only use 2d panning anyway so DirectSound is okay in that case. I have played a number of games developed with BGT on Windows 7 and Windows 8 and as long as they stik to 2d stereo panning they are fine. Its only games like Shades of Doom that needs 3d audio where we get into trouble with DirectSound. Cheers! On 9/12/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well I'd prefur to go for the updated versions ofcause. but stuff like shades of doom still uses the old direct sound libs and well, the fact is they are quite old no matter that the panning works nicly. I think for now at least making all the game engines bgt, etc to use the modern tech if they are already not doing so that should at least slown down the decline. However its good we are having this debate now because its always crossed my mind how nice it would be to convert totally to new stuff without bothering about old software and extra stuff to use. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Charles, Here is the bottom line. It is extra work. In some cases extra work that does not benefit me personally in any, way, shape or form. To give you an example I am working on a version of Tomb Hunter designed from a 3d first-person point of view. Therefore I need to have decent 5.1 surround sound and 3d audio support. There is a technical problem with this though. DirectSound 8, the library XP uses, works fine on Windows XP, but does not work correctly on Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8. So if I satisfy my XP customers by using DirectSound everyone running Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8 won't be able to play the game at all because the audio API is broken. To fix it I have to yank out the DirectSound code and replace it with something else like XAudio2. That involves a boat load of extra work, time, and personal frustration just to fix something I could have avoided to start with. From the way it sounds you think I should resolve this by charging upgrade fees. That is to say I can charge $30 for the XP version, and if you later want the version for Windows 8 I can charge you $15 for the new version. Sounds fair to me, but I have a feeling that Windows 8 users would be pretty ticked off if I charged them $15 to fix a problem I could have avoided in the first place by not using DirectSound and by using the new libraries to begin with. Plus as a Windows 8 user I would not want to design my game using old libraries that are broken only to take days perhaps weeks fixing it after the fact. To heck with that! Cheers! On 9/12/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: That's why there should be a version that will take advantage of the newer technology in the works, slowly being developed, as well as one that will work on XP that is more quickly developed. If we like the XP compatible version and we must migrate to the newer OS, we will gladly pay for the newer version that will probably have better performance and more options. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
then all games and such will die, everything will be pirated and the industry will just shut down at least comercially. Though I'd like to think that most devs that have not left us at least like bsc are actually doing something to combat the obvious short fall in the os compatability front at least I hope they are. However till that happens I plan to still have an xp something vm or something running somehow. At 10:11 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: Again, what happens to XP users when circumstances, as they inevitably will in time, force them to switch to a newer OS? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? -Original Message- From: Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users If you support 64 bit systems only, wiping out all XP users entirely, you've just wiped out your income from would-be customers. Kill your business in order to keep up with current technology? Not smart at all. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dennis, Don't tempt me. I have honestly thought about that. I have considered just supporting 64-bit systems, and that would wipe out all the XP users in one sweep. Of course, people running 32-bit upgrades of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 would get caught up in the sweep so not a good idea. LOL! Cheers! On 9/12/13, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Alternately, produce something awesome and only make it available where the bulk of your users are. If that means XP gets nothing, then so be it - it'll be incentive to get people off 12 year old operating systems. Dennis Towne --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Again, what happens to XP users when circumstances, as they inevitably will in time, force them to switch to a newer OS? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? -Original Message- From: Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users If you support 64 bit systems only, wiping out all XP users entirely, you've just wiped out your income from would-be customers. Kill your business in order to keep up with current technology? Not smart at all. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dennis, Don't tempt me. I have honestly thought about that. I have considered just supporting 64-bit systems, and that would wipe out all the XP users in one sweep. Of course, people running 32-bit upgrades of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 would get caught up in the sweep so not a good idea. LOL! Cheers! On 9/12/13, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Alternately, produce something awesome and only make it available where the bulk of your users are. If that means XP gets nothing, then so be it - it'll be incentive to get people off 12 year old operating systems. Dennis Towne --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Charles, Sure, you want to buy me a MacBook, an iPhone, and the money for the SDK so I can write software for the iPhone? Cheers! On 9/12/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: It's a catch 22. If you build it, he will come. A thought: How about producing games for iDevices that have touch screens? --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Not the point. :) Charles and others have expressed no interest in moving to linux. If they do, then we'll talk. :) Seriously though, if they did want to move to linux, then money would be one less roadblock to them for upgrades. Have an awesome night! Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Sep 11, 2013, at 8:08 PM, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: so linux is not capitalism? people make money off of it, just look at redhat for instance. and yet linux is free to for desktop users. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/11/2013 11:03 PM, Cara Quinn wrote: Charles, this is capitalism! I can't believe I'm hearing this! lol! this is the economic system we have had in this country since it's inception! Microsoft is offering a service by providing an OS so you can run your computers. For this they should be paid. As they revise this OS then they should be again paid for their work. Nothing says they need to support an older product or service. They've already been more than generous and to ask anything more is simply crossing the boundary of reason. I'm not saying this as any kind of value judgement toward you or anyone else here, this is simply a fact in regard to the way the technology industries across the world relate to our capitalist economic system here in this country. Make sense? Thanks and great post! Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Sep 11, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: You're thinking of getting Windows 8.1. Can 8.2 be far behind? If you want to stay current, here you go again. This might be an exaggerated example, but the same principle applies. Microsoft has to keep making money, and you have to give it to them. It's a never ending problem. And who gets more benefit from it? Microsoft. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Shaun, Well, with Windows 8.1 about to come out in a couple of months I'd say just skip Windows 8 and go to Windows 8.1. I'm glad I didn't spend much on a Windows 8 upgrade for my Toshiba, because I am looking at going to Windows 8.1 for my primary Windows box which I use for Windows software development. I always try to keep that system up to date. However, as for running a server with multiple operating systems it can be done, but you need quite a lot of CPU power and ram to pull it off effectively. I'd recommend a desktop PC with a 64-bit duel core processor and at least 4 GB of ram, and even better if you hav say 8 GB or so on that box to play with. Since virtual machines seem to run better on Linux I'd suggest using Linux as the Host operating system, and run various flavors of Windows in VMWare Player in order to cut down the system resources for the host. The only catch 22 is that Windows 7 and Windows 8 really need direct access to your graphics card, rather than emulated, so its not as good in that case. However, it really depends on which OS you will be using most. If Windows 7 were your primary then use it as the host and everything else as guest operating systems. Cheers! On 9/11/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well I still use xp for my old games and I will probably always use xp or have an xp system at least. win7 though is good and I have a 7 system. My basic home work for when I am not on the road ie gaming, etc seems to favor xp over 7 right now but once people like gma upgrade their stuff that may be behind me. The real reason I don't really hit 7 unless I need it is because I still have working xp system with better speakers than my 7 box though as I said its the older games I mainly play here. I do use 7 all the time. sadly though my network admin jobs for most things are 7 and 8 quite a lot of machines a third of them are still using xp so I also still use xp daily. my eventual hope is to get a server with windows on it and maybe have vms of linux xp and other oses or have them direct though I am not sure how I'd start one the server then be able to boot different vertual users but boot direct systems of the other stuff. either that or have a dedicated gaming box. the next thing I guess that will have to happen is going to 8 but I don't need the extra features. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
that depends on who is changing what. its debatable if any of ms changes are for the better and if they are its because we were lucky. same with some security and blind related software. At 10:19 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: Nor is it always for the worse. Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? -Original Message- From: Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:17 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users If I absolutely had to make the change, I would, even though I would be losing out. I would be less satisfied as a computer user. I hate the thought of trashing software I have used over the years. Change is not always for the better. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Again, what happens to XP users when circumstances, as they inevitably will in time, force them to switch to a newer OS? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? -Original Message- From: Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users If you support 64 bit systems only, wiping out all XP users entirely, you've just wiped out your income from would-be customers. Kill your business in order to keep up with current technology? Not smart at all. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dennis, Don't tempt me. I have honestly thought about that. I have considered just supporting 64-bit systems, and that would wipe out all the XP users in one sweep. Of course, people running 32-bit upgrades of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 would get caught up in the sweep so not a good idea. LOL! Cheers! On 9/12/13, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Alternately, produce something awesome and only make it available where the bulk of your users are. If that means XP gets nothing, then so be it - it'll be incentive to get people off 12 year old operating systems. Dennis Towne --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
oh now it would be so cool if jim kitchen's games worked on widnows8. and furthermore it would be excellent if his games took advantage of the emotion tags for windows8 sapi voices so the voices could sound more exciting and things when playing football! sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 02:49 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Dark, I am afraid any answer we give will not satisfy you, because you are convinced you are right. So no answer we give will ever satisfy you. You want to know why? Its simple Dark has made up his mind that nothing but XP will ever bee good enough for him. XP does all he wants so other people's opinions, reasons, and personal experiences mean absolutely zero. So any answer we give will mean absolutely nothing to you. All I can say is that the rest of us have reasons, good reasons we consider pretty valid, even if you don't consider those reasons valid. It boils down to a personal opinion of value, and of course personal value is not something that can be measured with facts, statistics, or empirical evidence. Personal value is personal judgment, and I guess from that point of view there isn't a thing we can say to sway you towards a newer version of Windows. As for myself there are lots of things I like about Windows 7. Unlike you I actually find the Start Menu better laid out than in XP. All of my personal folders like Documents, Music, Pictures, Downloads, etc are on one side of the screen while the tree view containing my programs is on the other. I like this newer look and feel and find it easier to find things, because all of my personal folders are right there in an organized list rather than being scattered all over my desktop. My All Programs Menu is similarly organized. I have submenus for Games, Office, Tools, Development, etc and under those are the Submenus for each program in that category. So I have a great deal of organization in Windows 7 I didn't find in XP. The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the name of the program. Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing through all the open Windows on the Taskbar. Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc. A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time. Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate it to your computer by voice? Something else I particularly like about Windows 8 is the introduction of apps to the Windows OS. Apps are basically miniature programs that run in the background all the time, and have a specific feature such as displaying today's headline news, the weather, stock reports, and various other things of that sort. Sure, I recognize apps aren't for everyone, but for me personally I'd sooner have them than not have them because I can just click on the weather app, for example, and get an idea of the current temp, a weather forecast, and not have to go online to look that information up. Although, I don't have a lot of experience with touchscreens and Windows 8 I know Windows 8 has touchscreen support, and NVDA 2013.2 works with touchscreens too. I fully expect the next desktop or laptop I buy will have a touchscreen and I like the idea of simply pointing at the screen and double tapping an icon rather than tabbing all over creation to find it and then pressing enter etc. Add to those features that Windows 7 and Windows 8 have better security features such as User Account Control, Windows Defender, Microsoft Security
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Ken, You may be right, but as I said its a catch 22. I could probably write a brand spanking new game for windows 8 using XAudio2 for 3d audio, use SFML tags with SAPI for more expressive speech output, could add touchscreen support, but if my customer base is one out of every ten that has Windows 8 I could be setting myself up for a huge financial loss hoping that the other nine out of ten buy Windows 8 upgrades to play my game. As Charles and others made plain not a lot of people have much money to spend on new computers and software and I'd be running a huge financial risk by doing that. Its smarter not to write a game with any of those features and make it backwards compatible with XP until such time the market changes and I can safely include those features without worrying about XP support so much. However, as Cara pointed out by so many users using XP you guys are pretty much restricting my choice in adding all these new features because its too much work to add without some pay off in the end. I guess the only solution for that is to write a prototype, a demo game, that includes all these features and let people have at it. Maybe if they saw this in action they might, just might be convinced, to change their minds. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Ken The PionEar kenwdow...@me.com wrote: I think that what we need is a good audio demo of what a game could be on Windows 8. As sighted people look at the screen shots of apps to see wether they might like the games, I think all the blind community needs is a good demo of what windows 8 is like and what its abilities are, especially in the realm of gaming. I think that in this case, sound and a good demo will speak louder than words alone. Check out my games at www.ThePionEar.net and my music, and that of my band, at www.ThePionEar.net/BlindLabyrinth.html . Also, check out, The Believer and Skeptic Show, at iTunes! If you want to reach me, you can call 419-744-0517, friend me on Facebook, (KenWDowney,) or write me at kenwdow...@me.com . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
vinux and sonar are very different from xp. and google uses ubuntu if the world was smart it would follow in google's footsteps and everyone would slowly switch to ubuntulike operating systems and android. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop On 09/12/2013 07:18 PM, shaun everiss wrote: I have heard some success stories and such with upgrading, however not many blind people say they are even using 8 or likeing it or officiently saying or doing anything with it. This excludes screen reader companies ofcause. So either the new tech is so good they forget to tell us about it or its so crap that they are so ashamed to tell us about it or they have fogot about us, or simply they just don't care. I am happy I was able to go to 7 the last probably accessable os so far. xp would still be better interface wize but 7 is ok to. At 10:25 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: Posts like this one are convincing. We get your firsthand experiences with the newer technology and why you think upgrading is worth it. On the other side, what games will not work with this platform? You've stated what we would gain. What would we lose? And what will this upgrade cost as far as the hardware we must buy to accommodate it? Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dark, I am afraid any answer we give will not satisfy you, because you are convinced you are right. So no answer we give will ever satisfy you. You want to know why? Its simple Dark has made up his mind that nothing but XP will ever bee good enough for him. XP does all he wants so other people's opinions, reasons, and personal experiences mean absolutely zero. So any answer we give will mean absolutely nothing to you. All I can say is that the rest of us have reasons, good reasons we consider pretty valid, even if you don't consider those reasons valid. It boils down to a personal opinion of value, and of course personal value is not something that can be measured with facts, statistics, or empirical evidence. Personal value is personal judgment, and I guess from that point of view there isn't a thing we can say to sway you towards a newer version of Windows. As for myself there are lots of things I like about Windows 7. Unlike you I actually find the Start Menu better laid out than in XP. All of my personal folders like Documents, Music, Pictures, Downloads, etc are on one side of the screen while the tree view containing my programs is on the other. I like this newer look and feel and find it easier to find things, because all of my personal folders are right there in an organized list rather than being scattered all over my desktop. My All Programs Menu is similarly organized. I have submenus for Games, Office, Tools, Development, etc and under those are the Submenus for each program in that category. So I have a great deal of organization in Windows 7 I didn't find in XP. The new Search feature is great. I can open the Start Menu and type the name of a file, folder, program, etc and have it find it in short order. I can often open the Start Menu and type Winword into the search box and have it fire up Word. So the Search box doubles as a type of run dialog which is cool. This works in Windows 8 as well as Windows 7 making it unnecessary to locate any icon if you know the name of the program. Pinning programs to the Taskbar is another one of those features that doesn't seem to be important to an XP user such as yourself, but I personally love it. I can pin all of my favorite programs like Firefox, Thunderbird, Visual C++, to the Taskbar meaning I can launch them directly from the Taskbar rather than from the Windows 7 Start Menu or the Start Screen in Windows 8. Even cooler there are hot keys assigned to those programs meaning I can use them to jump directly to that program or Window with a single keystroke rather than alt+tabbing through all the open Windows on the Taskbar. Another feature Windows 7 and Windows 8 has that frequently is useful to me is being able to burn data DVDs without having to pay for a third-party software like Nero. All I have to do is select the files and folders I want to burn, drag and drop them on the DVD drive, and click on Write Disc. That's both simple and actually saves money not having to pay $75 USD for Nero etc. A feature that I frequently use, when programming or dictating long documents and emails, is Microsoft's speech recognition. Its built into Windows 7 and Windows 8, and gets better every version that comes out. Its superior to the Speech Recognition that comes with XP, and it really helps save time when dictating a huge block of programming code, dictating a long email, or whatever.You should try it some time. Would you rather type a long email message or simply dictate
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
The extent of Win8.1's support for older interfaces is to restore the Start button. But the button, when pressed, still opens the Metro interface. A slight. FWIW, I was (and in many ways still am) impressed by Win8 from a purely keyboard-centric, productivity point of view. But the loss of hierarchical menus really, really kills me. Even 7 has that, if you need to list all programs. As for who wins the user experience battle generally, well it's obvious, isn't it? That's Apple! That's what they do! No sudden updates that completely change everything for no good reason. Instead, high prices on the hardware, rampant obsolescence, control freakery in the ecosystem, and a disrespect for the power user (all the iOSification, for example). Cheers, Sabahattin --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Nor is it always for the worse. Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? -Original Message- From: Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:17 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users If I absolutely had to make the change, I would, even though I would be losing out. I would be less satisfied as a computer user. I hate the thought of trashing software I have used over the years. Change is not always for the better. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Again, what happens to XP users when circumstances, as they inevitably will in time, force them to switch to a newer OS? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? -Original Message- From: Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users If you support 64 bit systems only, wiping out all XP users entirely, you've just wiped out your income from would-be customers. Kill your business in order to keep up with current technology? Not smart at all. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Dennis, Don't tempt me. I have honestly thought about that. I have considered just supporting 64-bit systems, and that would wipe out all the XP users in one sweep. Of course, people running 32-bit upgrades of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 would get caught up in the sweep so not a good idea. LOL! Cheers! On 9/12/13, Dennis Towne s...@xirr.com wrote: Alternately, produce something awesome and only make it available where the bulk of your users are. If that means XP gets nothing, then so be it - it'll be incentive to get people off 12 year old operating systems. Dennis Towne --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
The question is what happens once circumstances force those XP users to upgrade, which they inevitably will in time. Computers die sooner or later, and your new computer might not be equipped to handle having an older OS installed. We might lose certain older games but we'llhave access to newer ones. Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? -Original Message- From: Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:03 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Exactly my point when it comes to switching from XP. Developers aren't going to develop for a platform that their customers don't use. The majority of blind gamers still use XP because they like it, it works, and there are products that we have already bought that work on it. Those products may not work with the new Windows platform which is not as blind friendly to operate. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Josh, I think you are missing the point. A lot of the people don't want Windows 8 so why would they go to New Egg or Blair Technologies and get a laptop and put Windows 8 on it? As for Android Tablets I have tried one out, I like it, but the fact of the matter is Android acccessibility is still very basic, not up to iOS standards, there aren't many games for it, and developers aren't going to write games for a platform with few potential customers. Not if he or she is trying to make money at it. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: people could get refurbished computers from blair technology or newegg and just put windows8 on them. or better yet get an android tablet and just make the games for tablets. I'd rather play touch screen games on tablets anyway than have them on a full laptop which is part touch screen pretending to try to be a tablet. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Well Tom, I have to say that all your descriptions have changed my mind, and the next computer i get, if I can ever afford a new one, will be a Windows 8 touchscreen. How awesome would that be! Check out my games at www.ThePionEar.net and my music, and that of my band, at www.ThePionEar.net/BlindLabyrinth.html . Also, check out, The Believer and Skeptic Show, at iTunes! If you want to reach me, you can call 419-744-0517, friend me on Facebook, (KenWDowney,) or write me at kenwdow...@me.com . - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Ken, You may be right, but as I said its a catch 22. I could probably write a brand spanking new game for windows 8 using XAudio2 for 3d audio, use SFML tags with SAPI for more expressive speech output, could add touchscreen support, but if my customer base is one out of every ten that has Windows 8 I could be setting myself up for a huge financial loss hoping that the other nine out of ten buy Windows 8 upgrades to play my game. As Charles and others made plain not a lot of people have much money to spend on new computers and software and I'd be running a huge financial risk by doing that. Its smarter not to write a game with any of those features and make it backwards compatible with XP until such time the market changes and I can safely include those features without worrying about XP support so much. However, as Cara pointed out by so many users using XP you guys are pretty much restricting my choice in adding all these new features because its too much work to add without some pay off in the end. I guess the only solution for that is to write a prototype, a demo game, that includes all these features and let people have at it. Maybe if they saw this in action they might, just might be convinced, to change their minds. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Ken The PionEar kenwdow...@me.com wrote: I think that what we need is a good audio demo of what a game could be on Windows 8. As sighted people look at the screen shots of apps to see wether they might like the games, I think all the blind community needs is a good demo of what windows 8 is like and what its abilities are, especially in the realm of gaming. I think that in this case, sound and a good demo will speak louder than words alone. Check out my games at www.ThePionEar.net and my music, and that of my band, at www.ThePionEar.net/BlindLabyrinth.html . Also, check out, The Believer and Skeptic Show, at iTunes! If you want to reach me, you can call 419-744-0517, friend me on Facebook, (KenWDowney,) or write me at kenwdow...@me.com . --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
Hi Dark, My apologies for coming off a bit too strong their. To answer your question not liking Windows 7, Windows 8, etc is not a crime. It just seems to me to beside the point which is that sooner or later changes in technology will force us to change regardless if we like it, hate it, want it, or don't want it. Microsoft makes the rules as far as Windows is concerned and we have a choice to adopt the changes early or wait until we have ran out of other options to stick with our old hardware and software I'm of the opinion adopting sooner than later is the most pragmatic solution as it allows developers like myself to begin developing games for the new platform and hopefully move away from older deprecated technologies in the process. Cheers! . On 9/12/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I thank you for your opinion, but not the tone of your message. I have clearly explained my position, and I have admitted myself that I admire much of touch screen technology, however I did not expect this sort of hostility. Really is not liking the windows 7 interface and wanting some good games for the system so much a crime? According to you it obviously is. goodbye. Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users
which brings up the question of switching all products over to the newer systems as soon as possible. I aggree that is as likely as to happen as I suddenly seeing but still, thats basically what needs to happen. but you are right about it just working. While I have got down to using what I need in the newer system easily there are just those things that run nicer in the older system. I have also had faster startups with some older supposed to newer systems. At 10:03 AM 9/13/2013, you wrote: Exactly my point when it comes to switching from XP. Developers aren't going to develop for a platform that their customers don't use. The majority of blind gamers still use XP because they like it, it works, and there are products that we have already bought that work on it. Those products may not work with the new Windows platform which is not as blind friendly to operate. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Note to XP users Hi Josh, I think you are missing the point. A lot of the people don't want Windows 8 so why would they go to New Egg or Blair Technologies and get a laptop and put Windows 8 on it? As for Android Tablets I have tried one out, I like it, but the fact of the matter is Android acccessibility is still very basic, not up to iOS standards, there aren't many games for it, and developers aren't going to write games for a platform with few potential customers. Not if he or she is trying to make money at it. Cheers! On 9/12/13, Josh joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: people could get refurbished computers from blair technology or newegg and just put windows8 on them. or better yet get an android tablet and just make the games for tablets. I'd rather play touch screen games on tablets anyway than have them on a full laptop which is part touch screen pretending to try to be a tablet. sent from my vinux4 linux laptop --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
