Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Travis Siegel]

This is waaay off topic, and this is my only post on the topic.
If you think the democrats never did anything for you, then you've never 
heard of the ADA.  If you think democrats never did anything for you, then 
you've never heard of the copyright exceptions that allow accessible 
material to be produced without copyright permission from the copyright 
holders.
These are just 2 of the many many many things democrats have done for you. 
I try hard to stay out of political debates, because what I think about 
the us system has no bearing on anything except what I think about the us 
system, and doesn't belong in most online places, but for those claiming 
neither party ever did anything for you, I can assure you that you're 100 
percent wrong.

(that's the last thing I'll say on this topic on list).


On Fri, 13 Jan 2017, Josh Kennedy wrote:

I am totally blind, I am Republican, and I am very proud and glad to be a 
deplorable human beings who was not  aborted by tplanned parenthood and  he 
Democrats.


Sent with AquaMail for Android


On January 13, 2017 7:52:26 AM Justin Jones  wrote:


Good luck getting this to be taken seriously by the legal system here
in the United States. There are dozens of legal defenses that Valve
could use to wriggle out of anything.

Unfortunately, they could argue, with a good deal of justice, that
most, if not all, their games are for sighted people so it is not
their job to accomedate us.

Finally, there is a very good chance that the Americans with
Disabilities Act is going to be gutted by Cheeto Bonito and the
deplorable human beings that put him into office/support him. This
extends to the idiot Republicans in Congress who will happily throw us
under the bus.



---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Travis Siegel]

Umm, guys.
Anyone who wants to can use the steam platform. Sourcecode is available, 
so if you want to make an accessible steam game, have at it.  There's 
nothing stopping anyone from doing so.  Just purchase one of the many 
sample games with source code, and modify away to make it as accessible as 
you want.  If someone does this, it's likely you could make the changes 
available for others to use, and poof, instant accessible steam games. 
ANo need to sue anybody.  Just grab the source, and go to town on it. 
When it's accessible, let others know, and they can use it too.

Where's the problem here?


On Fri, 13 Jan 2017, dark wrote:

Well universal access would be the ideal, but it is a very long way off 
indeed.
In the case of steam though however, there has already been really extensive 
attempts to contact tthem that have been stone walled, and while I appreciate 
the efforts of anyone trying, I doubt very much valve will listen.


In the 11 years I've been working in game access, not one single major main 
stream company has shown a consistant regard for accessibility in games 
development. There is the odd single landmark release such as sound voyage or 
studio 5, but that is more a matter of a specific designer wanting to create 
an audio game and the publisher of whatever system she/he is working for 
lacking up credit than any real commitment by the publisher, and once that 
designer's project is finished the publisher goes back to churning out games 
with the huge 3D graphics and big explosions that keep the prophets rolling 
in and the shareholders happy.


Where progress is! made, is games by indipendent designers for systems that 
already have a degree of access, either through some  commitment on the part 
of the publishers of that platform, or by third party developers working to 
make the systems themselves accessible through running external programs.


So, while I applaud efforts to make Valve listen to access requests, I doubt 
they ever will. I personally would therefore suggest people encourage 
develpers of accessible games to stay away from steam,  particularly 
because most developers who also publish accessible games on steam publish 
off it too (choiceofgames, nielsbauer etc), and because we shouldn't be 
supporting a company with no interest in accessibility at all.


I can only at this point see steam being made accessible through some sort of 
third party software, ie, a steam screen reader, however sice steam itself is 
rather locked down to the point that it's interface can't be tampered with, I 
doubt any developer would be able to make something like that, even assuming 
Valve would give permission, since again with the modern business model of 
software development it's not like back in the nineties when anyone with the 
know how could make a screen reader and anyone else could freely use it.


Summary,  Good luck, but I fear that Steam is going to remain inacceisslbe 
due to the greedy bastards in charge (may they all die horribly of gout 
caused by their stupidly opulent life styles).


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - From: "Harmony Neil" <harmony.n...@gmail.com>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.


I think they should make the stuff accessible for everyone to play by 
default (although yes it will probably mean the developers doing their 
research and asking more questions), so people can play the games 
regardless of their perceived disability etc. Yes it means a few more lines 
of code but so what. That way there would be no need for a separation 
between say blind accenssible games and a game that random person can just 
pick up off the shelf and put in their computer or whatever they're playing 
the game on and play it.

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.




---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.



---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[dark]

Again, it's a question of ideals.
if we had infinite time and resources, yes, certainly all audiogames that 
could would have readable subtitles, at least simplified graphics or 
similar, but pragmatically for a one or two person company that's just not 
possible to include all the time.


On the other hand, if a death person say asked for an otherwise text game 
which happened to use an audio alert for a couple of specific events to have 
a textual or visual one, that would not be an issue, or rather any developer 
who refused such would not be reasonable.


In the case of Valve and steam specifically though, they are a huge company 
and do! have the resources to make the basic steam interface accessible, 
html version would already work and it's not as if major companies don't 
make similar small adaptations for disabilities, eg, closed captioning for 
the deaf which now occurs in a lot of games.


Again though it's one of these cases of literal lack of visibility, 
publicity, education and any sort of dialogue, indeed that is why so 
frequently once you can! talk to the actual people who do the developing, 
any sort of access questions are fairly easy to sort out, (I'd imagine the 
same goes for pretty much any disabled access).


All the best,

Dark. 



---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Harmony Neil]

Agree. All these guys on here are focusing on blind this and that, but when I 
say accessible I mean accessible to everyone regardless of stupid limitations. 
If they're not going to get rid of the limitations at least make the tools 
available to deal with them, no matter whether it's in terms of games or 
getting around places or whatever other situation it might be.
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Harmony Neil]

The only truly accessible games I've seen for android not including the blind 
specific ones are dice world and trivia crack. As far as I know (correct if I'm 
wrong) the map system on lords and knights and celtic tribes is nowhere near as 
accessible if it all on android as it is on iOS.
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[jeremy]

I'm not going to say one way or another if Steam should be required to make its 
platform blind accessible, but I do want to throw a question out for people to 
consider.  And before I even ask it, know that I'm not asking anyone directly 
or looking for anyone to answer it.
The audio games community has several small "companies" (usually 1 to 3 man 
teams) who have been making audio games over the years.  Only a very tiny 
percentage of those games have visual graphics in them, in fact I'm sure the 
number of them could fit on one hand.  Sighted players are not being 
discriminated against because they could just use the audio like the intended 
players, but what about deaf players?  I know a woman from work who would be 
completely unable to play those games because she is completely deaf and the 
games have no graphics.  Would this community take it seriously if she started 
up some sort of online petition and laid out demands to have all of the audio 
games "companies"/developers add usable graphics to their existing games?  To 
take it a step further, what if the demands required the added graphics to 
allow her to play with the same experience as the blind players, since if the 
graphics left out anything that blind players could hear with audio, then she 
is at a disadvantage.
If we decide that other people need to accommodate accessibility for blind 
players, should we be forced to accommodate deaf accessibility?
Just something I was wondering.- Aprone


   
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Jordan Gallacher]

I can totally agree that most Republicans are idiots.  There are a few
decent ones out there but that is few and far between.  
Jordan
-Original Message-
From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:50 AM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

Good luck getting this to be taken seriously by the legal system here in the
United States. There are dozens of legal defenses that Valve could use to
wriggle out of anything.

Unfortunately, they could argue, with a good deal of justice, that most, if
not all, their games are for sighted people so it is not their job to
accomedate us.

Finally, there is a very good chance that the Americans with Disabilities
Act is going to be gutted by Cheeto Bonito and the deplorable human beings
that put him into office/support him. This extends to the idiot Republicans
in Congress who will happily throw us under the bus.

If we want accessible games, we are going to have to do it ourselves; there
is no other way around this.

On 1/13/17, Ron Kolesar <kolesar16...@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> Thanks Dark.
> We deeply appreciate your support.
> I've sent the info that I shipped to the list to a couple of ADA 
> lawyers that I've worked with to help them out a few years back.
> So, I'm now hoping since I helped them out on a major project, that 
> they'll
>
> now be able to help out we the blind in our hour of need as well.
> A huge thanks once again.
> Ron
>
> -Original Message-
> From: dark
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:58 AM
> To: Gamers Discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
>
> Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been 
> put into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already 
> speaks for itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam 
> and encourage developers of accessible games not to use it either.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dark.
>
>
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the 
> list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at 
> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the 
> list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>
>
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the 
> list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at 
> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the 
> list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>


--
Justin M. Jones, M.A.
atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list,
send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Josh Kennedy]

I am totally blind, I am Republican, and I am very proud and glad to be a 
deplorable human beings who was not  aborted by tplanned parenthood and  he 
Democrats.


Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On January 13, 2017 7:52:26 AM Justin Jones <atreides...@gmail.com> wrote:


Good luck getting this to be taken seriously by the legal system here
in the United States. There are dozens of legal defenses that Valve
could use to wriggle out of anything.

Unfortunately, they could argue, with a good deal of justice, that
most, if not all, their games are for sighted people so it is not
their job to accomedate us.

Finally, there is a very good chance that the Americans with
Disabilities Act is going to be gutted by Cheeto Bonito and the
deplorable human beings that put him into office/support him. This
extends to the idiot Republicans in Congress who will happily throw us
under the bus.

If we want accessible games, we are going to have to do it ourselves;
there is no other way around this.

On 1/13/17, Ron Kolesar <kolesar16...@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Thanks Dark.
We deeply appreciate your support.
I've sent the info that I shipped to the list to a couple of ADA lawyers
that I've worked with to help them out a few years back.
So, I'm now hoping since I helped them out on a major project, that they'll

now be able to help out we the blind in our hour of need as well.
A huge thanks once again.
Ron

-Original Message-
From: dark
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:58 AM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been put
into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already speaks for
itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam and encourage
developers of accessible games not to use it either.

All the best,

Dark.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.




--
Justin M. Jones, M.A.
atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.




---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Josh Kennedy]

People like President Obama and Hillary Clinton, and the other Democrats, 
they never did anything for me. And I am totally behind. The people who did 
stuff for me is the people I grew up with the teachers I had at the at the 
school for the blind. Democrats and people like that they never did 
anything for me in fact if they had their way I probably I probably would 
have been avoided and wouldn't even be alive right now. If the Democrats 
had their way. I would not be even alive.


Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On January 13, 2017 7:52:26 AM Justin Jones <atreides...@gmail.com> wrote:


Good luck getting this to be taken seriously by the legal system here
in the United States. There are dozens of legal defenses that Valve
could use to wriggle out of anything.

Unfortunately, they could argue, with a good deal of justice, that
most, if not all, their games are for sighted people so it is not
their job to accomedate us.

Finally, there is a very good chance that the Americans with
Disabilities Act is going to be gutted by Cheeto Bonito and the
deplorable human beings that put him into office/support him. This
extends to the idiot Republicans in Congress who will happily throw us
under the bus.

If we want accessible games, we are going to have to do it ourselves;
there is no other way around this.

On 1/13/17, Ron Kolesar <kolesar16...@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Thanks Dark.
We deeply appreciate your support.
I've sent the info that I shipped to the list to a couple of ADA lawyers
that I've worked with to help them out a few years back.
So, I'm now hoping since I helped them out on a major project, that they'll

now be able to help out we the blind in our hour of need as well.
A huge thanks once again.
Ron

-Original Message-
From: dark
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:58 AM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been put
into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already speaks for
itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam and encourage
developers of accessible games not to use it either.

All the best,

Dark.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.




--
Justin M. Jones, M.A.
atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.




---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Justin Jones]

That may be, but in all seriousness, if we want games, we are going to
have to make them.

On 1/13/17, dark  wrote:
> Hi Justin.
>
> I don't know about the american legal question, but actually I don't think
> the situation is quite that dire.
> There are increasingly a lot of indi developers working on audiogames or
> accessible text games, and with the rising indi market this is something
> that will only increase.
> Generally speaking I've found that if you can actually talk to a game's
> developer, the actual person with the ideas who sits down and rights the
> nuts and bolts code, changes do happen, since at rock bottom developers want
>
> people playing their games and are generally happy to make changes so that
> vi gamers can.
>
> So, while I don't think steam will be accessible any time soon, I do see
> more accessible releases from indi developers in stand alone packages for
> Ios and windows, and more developers including access in the future.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dark.
>
>
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>


-- 
Justin M. Jones, M.A.
atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Josh Kennedy]

So does that mean we're not going to see any new audio games for Android? 
Does that mean that for some reason developers are only going to develop 
for Windows and iPhone? It's disappointing that Android has the highest 
market share according to everything I've read, but yet there are not very 
many audio games for Android.


Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On January 13, 2017 10:49:04 AM "dark"  wrote:


Hi Justin.

I don't know about the american legal question, but actually I don't think
the situation is quite that dire.
There are increasingly a lot of indi developers working on audiogames or
accessible text games, and with the rising indi market this is something
that will only increase.
Generally speaking I've found that if you can actually talk to a game's
developer, the actual person with the ideas who sits down and rights the
nuts and bolts code, changes do happen, since at rock bottom developers want
people playing their games and are generally happy to make changes so that
vi gamers can.

So, while I don't think steam will be accessible any time soon, I do see
more accessible releases from indi developers in stand alone packages for
Ios and windows, and more developers including access in the future.

All the best,

Dark.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.




---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[dark]

Hi Justin.

I don't know about the american legal question, but actually I don't think 
the situation is quite that dire.
There are increasingly a lot of indi developers working on audiogames or 
accessible text games, and with the rising indi market this is something 
that will only increase.
Generally speaking I've found that if you can actually talk to a game's 
developer, the actual person with the ideas who sits down and rights the 
nuts and bolts code, changes do happen, since at rock bottom developers want 
people playing their games and are generally happy to make changes so that 
vi gamers can.


So, while I don't think steam will be accessible any time soon, I do see 
more accessible releases from indi developers in stand alone packages for 
Ios and windows, and more developers including access in the future.


All the best,

Dark. 



---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[dark]

Hi Ron.

I certainly support efforts to contact huge companies, I just doubt that 
until they have either a legal or financial insentive such contact will bare 
fruite.


I would however recommend people support those developers who do! create 
accessible games, and also let them know about the inequities with Valve's 
system too.


All the best,

Dark.
Due to Btinternet being inconvenient, this email address will not be in use 
for very long. Please contact me on my other public address, d...@xgam.org. 
When I have a new private address, I will let everyone know.
- Original Message - 
From: "Ron Kolesar" <kolesar16...@roadrunner.com>

To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.



Thanks Dark.
We deeply appreciate your support.
I've sent the info that I shipped to the list to a couple of ADA lawyers 
that I've worked with to help them out a few years back.
So, I'm now hoping since I helped them out on a major project, that 
they'll now be able to help out we the blind in our hour of need as well.

A huge thanks once again.
Ron

-Original Message- 
From: dark

Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:58 AM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been put
into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already speaks for
itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam and encourage
developers of accessible games not to use it either.

All the best,

Dark.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the 
list,

please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the 
list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. 



---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Justin Jones]

Good luck getting this to be taken seriously by the legal system here
in the United States. There are dozens of legal defenses that Valve
could use to wriggle out of anything.

Unfortunately, they could argue, with a good deal of justice, that
most, if not all, their games are for sighted people so it is not
their job to accomedate us.

Finally, there is a very good chance that the Americans with
Disabilities Act is going to be gutted by Cheeto Bonito and the
deplorable human beings that put him into office/support him. This
extends to the idiot Republicans in Congress who will happily throw us
under the bus.

If we want accessible games, we are going to have to do it ourselves;
there is no other way around this.

On 1/13/17, Ron Kolesar <kolesar16...@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> Thanks Dark.
> We deeply appreciate your support.
> I've sent the info that I shipped to the list to a couple of ADA lawyers
> that I've worked with to help them out a few years back.
> So, I'm now hoping since I helped them out on a major project, that they'll
>
> now be able to help out we the blind in our hour of need as well.
> A huge thanks once again.
> Ron
>
> -Original Message-
> From: dark
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:58 AM
> To: Gamers Discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.
>
> Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been put
> into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already speaks for
> itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam and encourage
> developers of accessible games not to use it either.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dark.
>
>
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>
>
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>


-- 
Justin M. Jones, M.A.
atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Ron Kolesar]

Thanks Dark.
We deeply appreciate your support.
I've sent the info that I shipped to the list to a couple of ADA lawyers 
that I've worked with to help them out a few years back.
So, I'm now hoping since I helped them out on a major project, that they'll 
now be able to help out we the blind in our hour of need as well.

A huge thanks once again.
Ron

-Original Message- 
From: dark

Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:58 AM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been put
into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already speaks for
itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam and encourage
developers of accessible games not to use it either.

All the best,

Dark.


---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. 



---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Ron Kolesar]

We have all tried contacting Valve Corporation via their phone number and 
via phone calls.
When you call you only get a answering machine and they claim that they'll 
get back to you.

But they don't return phone calls nor e-mail letters.
The people that I've worked with have tried time and time again to get in 
touch with Valve Corporation and attempted to manage our way through the 
steam world.

Also with real no success.
So, hope this answers your questions.

-Original Message- 
From: Tobias Vinteus

Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 02:29 AM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

Hi,
Have people tried contactign the developers themselves or high-ranking
community members or even the CEO, rather than going through the customer
service?

If even that woudl fail, I'd say legal measures are in order.

Thanks,
Tobias


On Thu, 12 Jan 2017, Ron Kolesar wrote:

Please read the letter that is down below and help us to force the united 
States based company Valve corporation who are the owners and the 
designers of the online gaming world known as STEAM accessible for we who 
use a screen reader and for blind gamers everywhere.
Valve Corp, will not return phone calls. When you call you receive a 
answering machine and they say that they’ll get back in touch with you, 
but they never do. Also, they do not also not return e-mail letters as 
well. We the blind have attempted to advise them on how they  could make 
the steam site and access to the programs for both free and for purchase 
blind accessible. But they don’t want to hear us. We have petitions out on 
the internet. If you do a search on something like. (petitions on how to 
make steam more accessible for the blind)
You’ll see several petitions. I think the one petition on change.org has 
been closed out. But you’ll see comments from both blind and sighted 
supporters a like expressing why steam should be more accessible for we 
who would like to continue playing our favorite games and simulators. Now, 
here’s a more detailed letter with a couple of links that you also might 
want to take a look at as well. Any blind lawyers on this list who are 
gamers. We might want to share this with a few ADA lawyers. I’ve already 
have done that. So many thanks for the support. Now, here’s the letter 
with the links that you’ll also want to take a look at as well. Thanks for 
your support. Ron

Calling all gamers.
Please help by spreading the word about the following. We have to make the 
Valve Corporation here in the United States, the owner and designer of the 
new online gaming world STEAM to become blind friendly. When you call 
them, you just receive a answering machine and they do not get back to 
you. They also do not return e-mail letters as well. Here’s two links that 
might helps us to force STEAM to become blind accessible at long long 
last. Now here’s the links.

The steam accessibility guidelines are here:
http://www.interactiveaccessibility.com/news/new-requirements-video-games-fall#.WHgVFRiZPnB
Any violation of these guidelines will encure a fine of I think 1 million 
dollars and a 6 month suspension and investigation via the FCC.


The legal guidelines are also here.
https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/04/cvaa-fostering-innovation-change/

Fines will also apply if valve does not follow these. By the way the dead 
line I think is this year.


They are working on the chat being more accessible but for some reason 
they are not applying the accessibility hooks and elements into other 
parts of the program.

block quote

block quote end
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the 
list,

please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. 



---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[dark]

Well universal access would be the ideal, but it is a very long way off 
indeed.
In the case of steam though however, there has already been really extensive 
attempts to contact tthem that have been stone walled, and while I 
appreciate the efforts of anyone trying, I doubt very much valve will 
listen.


In the 11 years I've been working in game access, not one single major main 
stream company has shown a consistant regard for accessibility in games 
development. There is the odd single landmark release such as sound voyage 
or studio 5, but that is more a matter of a specific designer wanting to 
create an audio game and the publisher of whatever system she/he is working 
for lacking up credit than any real commitment by the publisher, and once 
that designer's project is finished the publisher goes back to churning out 
games with the huge 3D graphics and big explosions that keep the prophets 
rolling in and the shareholders happy.


Where progress is! made, is games by indipendent designers for systems that 
already have a degree of access, either through some  commitment on the part 
of the publishers of that platform, or by third party developers working to 
make the systems themselves accessible through running external programs.


So, while I applaud efforts to make Valve listen to access requests, I doubt 
they ever will. I personally would therefore suggest people encourage 
develpers of accessible games to stay away from steam,  particularly 
because most developers who also publish accessible games on steam publish 
off it too (choiceofgames, nielsbauer etc), and because we shouldn't be 
supporting a company with no interest in accessibility at all.


I can only at this point see steam being made accessible through some sort 
of third party software, ie, a steam screen reader, however sice steam 
itself is rather locked down to the point that it's interface can't be 
tampered with, I doubt any developer would be able to make something like 
that, even assuming Valve would give permission, since again with the modern 
business model of software development it's not like back in the nineties 
when anyone with the know how could make a screen reader and anyone else 
could freely use it.


Summary,  Good luck, but I fear that Steam is going to remain inacceisslbe 
due to the greedy bastards in charge (may they all die horribly of gout 
caused by their stupidly opulent life styles).


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: "Harmony Neil" <harmony.n...@gmail.com>

To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.


I think they should make the stuff accessible for everyone to play by 
default (although yes it will probably mean the developers doing their 
research and asking more questions), so people can play the games 
regardless of their perceived disability etc. Yes it means a few more lines 
of code but so what. That way there would be no need for a separation 
between say blind accenssible games and a game that random person can just 
pick up off the shelf and put in their computer or whatever they're playing 
the game on and play it.

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to 
gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the 
list,

please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.




---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Harmony Neil]

I think they should make the stuff accessible for everyone to play by default 
(although yes it will probably mean the developers doing their research and 
asking more questions), so people can play the games regardless of their 
perceived disability etc. Yes it means a few more lines of code but so what. 
That way there would be no need for a separation between say blind accenssible 
games and a game that random person can just pick up off the shelf and put in 
their computer or whatever they're playing the game on and play it.
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[dark]

Good luck, though I think the amount of time and effort that has been put 
into contacting valve and their utter lack of interest already speaks for 
itself, one reason why I'd urge people to not support steam and encourage 
developers of accessible games not to use it either.


All the best,

Dark. 



---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

Re: [Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Tobias Vinteus]

Hi,
Have people tried contactign the developers themselves or high-ranking 
community members or even the CEO, rather than going through the customer 
service?


If even that woudl fail, I'd say legal measures are in order.

Thanks,
Tobias


On Thu, 12 Jan 2017, Ron Kolesar wrote:


Please read the letter that is down below and help us to force the united 
States based company Valve corporation who are the owners and the designers of 
the online gaming world known as STEAM accessible for we who use a screen 
reader and for blind gamers everywhere.
Valve Corp, will not return phone calls. 
When you call you receive a answering machine and they say that they’ll get back in touch with you, but they never do. 
Also, they do not also not return e-mail letters as well. 
We the blind have attempted to advise them on how they  could make the steam site and access to the programs for both free and for purchase blind accessible. 
But they don’t want to hear us. 
We have petitions out on the internet. 
If you do a search on something like. 
(petitions on how to make steam more accessible for the blind)
You’ll see several petitions. 
I think the one petition on change.org has been closed out. 
But you’ll see comments from both blind and sighted supporters a like expressing why steam should be more accessible for we who would like to continue playing our favorite games and simulators. 
Now, here’s a more detailed letter with a couple of links that you also might want to take a look at as well. 
Any blind lawyers on this list who are gamers. 
We might want to share this with a few ADA lawyers. 
I’ve already have done that. 
So many thanks for the support. 
Now, here’s the letter with the links that you’ll also want to take a look at as well. 
Thanks for your support. 
Ron

Calling all gamers.
Please help by spreading the word about the following. 
We have to make the Valve Corporation here in the United States, the owner and designer of the new online gaming world STEAM to become blind friendly. 
When you call them, you just receive a answering machine and they do not get back to you. 
They also do not return e-mail letters as well. 
Here’s two links that might helps us to force STEAM to become blind accessible at long long last. 
Now here’s the links.

The steam accessibility guidelines are here:
http://www.interactiveaccessibility.com/news/new-requirements-video-games-fall#.WHgVFRiZPnB
Any violation of these guidelines will encure a fine of I think 1 million 
dollars and a 6 month suspension and investigation via the FCC.

The legal guidelines are also here.
https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/04/cvaa-fostering-innovation-change/

Fines will also apply if valve does not follow these. By the way the dead line 
I think is this year.

They are working on the chat being more accessible but for some reason they are 
not applying the accessibility hooks and elements into other parts of the 
program.
block quote

block quote end
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

[Audyssey] Calling all Gamers.

[Ron Kolesar]

Please read the letter that is down below and help us to force the united 
States based company Valve corporation who are the owners and the designers of 
the online gaming world known as STEAM accessible for we who use a screen 
reader and for blind gamers everywhere.
Valve Corp, will not return phone calls. 
When you call you receive a answering machine and they say that they’ll get 
back in touch with you, but they never do. 
Also, they do not also not return e-mail letters as well. 
We the blind have attempted to advise them on how they  could make the steam 
site and access to the programs for both free and for purchase blind 
accessible. 
But they don’t want to hear us. 
We have petitions out on the internet. 
If you do a search on something like. 
(petitions on how to make steam more accessible for the blind)
You’ll see several petitions. 
I think the one petition on change.org has been closed out. 
But you’ll see comments from both blind and sighted supporters a like 
expressing why steam should be more accessible for we who would like to 
continue playing our favorite games and simulators. 
Now, here’s a more detailed letter with a couple of links that you also might 
want to take a look at as well. 
Any blind lawyers on this list who are gamers. 
We might want to share this with a few ADA lawyers. 
I’ve already have done that. 
So many thanks for the support. 
Now, here’s the letter with the links that you’ll also want to take a look at 
as well. 
Thanks for your support. 
Ron
Calling all gamers.
Please help by spreading the word about the following. 
We have to make the Valve Corporation here in the United States, the owner and 
designer of the new online gaming world STEAM to become blind friendly. 
When you call them, you just receive a answering machine and they do not get 
back to you. 
They also do not return e-mail letters as well. 
Here’s two links that might helps us to force STEAM to become blind accessible 
at long long last. 
Now here’s the links.
The steam accessibility guidelines are here:
http://www.interactiveaccessibility.com/news/new-requirements-video-games-fall#.WHgVFRiZPnB
Any violation of these guidelines will encure a fine of I think 1 million 
dollars and a 6 month suspension and investigation via the FCC.

The legal guidelines are also here.
https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/04/cvaa-fostering-innovation-change/

Fines will also apply if valve does not follow these. By the way the dead line 
I think is this year.

They are working on the chat being more accessible but for some reason they are 
not applying the accessibility hooks and elements into other parts of the 
program.
block quote

block quote end
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

[Audyssey] Calling all gamers.

[Ron Kolesar]

For my fellow gamers.
I ask if you will read, sign and help circulate the following petition.
The URL for the petition is at
Most or not all of the games these days which also includes the original 
Mircosoft Flight simulator game that we blind pilots enjoy is going to a 
Steam platform owned by a company called Valve corporation.

Please read, sign and help sirculate the following petition.
https://www.change.org/p/valve-corporation-make-the-steam-platform-more-accessible-to-blind-and-visually-impaired-people
Many Thanks.

Ron and current Leader Dog boz who states
"that a service dog beats a cane paws down any day of the week." 
---

Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

[Audyssey] Calling all gamers.

[Ron Kolesar]

For my fellow gamers.
I ask if you will read, sign and help circulate the following petition.
The URL for the petition is at
Most or not all of the games these days which also includes the original
Mircosoft Flight simulator game that we blind pilots enjoy is going to a
Steam platform owned by a company called Valve corporation.
Please read, sign and help sirculate the following petition.
https://www.change.org/p/valve-corporation-make-the-steam-platform-more-accessible-to-blind-and-visually-impaired-people
Many Thanks.

Ron and current Leader Dog boz who states
"that a service dog beats a cane paws down any day of the week." 



---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.