Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames
this is why i wish i could develope games. ahaha. cause in australia, this doesn't happen. on the blind pension we have here, its totally non means tested. yes, i'd still have to pay tax on any money i made from game sales, but my government income would not be effected in any way, shape, or form. Regards: Dallas On 24/04/2013, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jim, Oh, I hear you there. That's definitely one of the hassles with developing games for the blind. Even those of us who do make and sell games there isn't a lot of money to make off of it. If the person happens to be living on public assistance such as food stamps, SSI, etc anything he or she makes ends up having to be reported to the government for tax purposes and the government turns around and slices off a good chunk of his/her disability benefits to make up for the money made on said game. I could go on and on about how many blind people who have tried to get part time jobs etc and slowly work their way off of public assistance only to end up in worse shape than before. So its not really worth selling games unless a person has some other means of supporting themselves besides audio games that's for sure. Cheers! On 4/23/13, Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net wrote: Hi Thomas, You know I love writing games. Maybe it would have been nice to be able to make some money at it. But even early on I heard that there was not much money to make. But one major reason that I have never taken any money for any of my games is because I can not afford to. You know if I got any money for my games it would then lower my food stamps, raise my rent, maybe kick me off of my medical insurance and stuff like that. Not to mention just all of the hassle of reporting it all the time. And if somehow I released a game that really sold good and I made a whole bunch of money in one quarter, I might even get kicked off of disability income. And that was not easy to get back on to after the last time that I had a job and went off of it. Oh yeah, and I think that a hobby is more fun than a job. BFN Jim There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames
They are not in violation, because of what is called high risk insurance. That is what all blind are labeled. So if that store determines you a high risk in moving around in there store. Then they don't have to tell you anything except leave. You need to read that ADA crap better, because it really wasn't written for those with disabilities but for those without. At 10:12 PM 4/23/2013, you wrote: Bryan, I don't want to get too far afield, but a store refusing to help you shop is in direct violation of the ADA. I'm not saying that a lawsuit is the best or even a good option, but I can understand their anger. As for games, the sighted public has just as much of an entitlement complex. We just don't see it because we're not in the thick of it. Try logging onto any torrent site, though, and see what you find there. I guarantee you'll be amazed--or maybe you won't. Ryan -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Peterson Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 4:13 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames Quite frankly this entitlement view is why I don't have much respect for many blind folks in general, and it's not ust to do with games. I get so mad when I hear people talk about ow they won't participate in an activity unless there's a discount because of blindness. THese are often the same people who'll threaten to sue a store employee if they refuse to help them shop regardless of the reasons for that refusal. But thou must! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames
Quite frankly this entitlement view is why I don't have much respect for many blind folks in general, and it's not ust to do with games. I get so mad when I hear people talk about ow they won't participate in an activity unless there's a discount because of blindness. THese are often the same people who'll threaten to sue a store employee if they refuse to help them shop regardless of the reasons for that refusal. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 3:07 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames Hi Michael, Yes, exactly. Plus I think something people often overlook is a free game should be considered a gift not an obligation. When Philip Bennefall created Kryngal Crash he could have charged $10 for that game and I would have gladly paid for it,but he gave that game away for free. I equally think the Grate Toy Robbery from L-Works is another game worth a small fee like $10 but Liam gave that game away for free. Some people though are under the mistaken impression just because Jim Kitchen gives away his games for free or Liam gives away a free handout like Great Toy Robbery that they should get games out of some sense of obligation etc. Its this entitlement attitude that some people have that really angers me. I remember a case in point a few months back. I was on a list where someone was giving away copies of some commercial audio games. When I called the list moderators and the person on it they gave me the excuse that well some blind people are on fixed incomes like SSI. They do not have a lot of money so its OK if someone buys it and gives the games away for free. So I am given to understand due to this entitlement attitude people have if a person doesn't have much money the developer is obligated to give their games away for free, and if they don't they are morally in the right to just pirate it. Its no wonder certain developers don't have much respect or trust for their blind customers. Cheers! On 4/23/13, Michael Taboada mich...@speedofsoundgaming.com wrote: Hi Thomas, I totally agree here. As a hobbiest game developer I know exactly what you're talking about. And that is one of the prime reasons I have not created any audio games lately, that being the money aspect. I haven't been able to work as much as I would like during my college classes, etc, so I don't have the finances coming in for all the sounds and music. Thanks, -Michael. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames
Definitely agree with all the points. But at the same time, I don't think it's just blind customers either. Sighted gamers or computer users are liable to pirate anything they think is to expensive because they are on fixed incomes or because they don't think something is worth the value that they have to pay. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames Hi Michael, Yes, exactly. Plus I think something people often overlook is a free game should be considered a gift not an obligation. When Philip Bennefall created Kryngal Crash he could have charged $10 for that game and I would have gladly paid for it,but he gave that game away for free. I equally think the Grate Toy Robbery from L-Works is another game worth a small fee like $10 but Liam gave that game away for free. Some people though are under the mistaken impression just because Jim Kitchen gives away his games for free or Liam gives away a free handout like Great Toy Robbery that they should get games out of some sense of obligation etc. Its this entitlement attitude that some people have that really angers me. I remember a case in point a few months back. I was on a list where someone was giving away copies of some commercial audio games. When I called the list moderators and the person on it they gave me the excuse that well some blind people are on fixed incomes like SSI. They do not have a lot of money so its OK if someone buys it and gives the games away for free. So I am given to understand due to this entitlement attitude people have if a person doesn't have much money the developer is obligated to give their games away for free, and if they don't they are morally in the right to just pirate it. Its no wonder certain developers don't have much respect or trust for their blind customers. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames
Hi Clement, That is a valid point, but at the same time the issue here is that audio game developers are attempting to sell to a specialized market and piracy hurts them more than it does a company like Microsoft, Activision, EA Games, whatever. There are all kinds of costs in producing an audio game that insures that the game developer should make something for his time and effort and if he doesn't that game developer may end up spending more to make the game than he or she gets back in sales. That's why piracy is especially bad, and why the entitlement attitude that blind people should get something for nothing is ultimately self-defeating. There are a number of blind gamers that want audio game developers to create games like those for the mainstream market, but at the same time they don't want to pay for it. If they pirate a game or expect it should be given to them for free then the developer isn't going to develop games for them. So they can thank themselves for blowing it for everyone. Cheers! On 4/23/13, Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com wrote: Definitely agree with all the points. But at the same time, I don't think it's just blind customers either. Sighted gamers or computer users are liable to pirate anything they think is to expensive because they are on fixed incomes or because they don't think something is worth the value that they have to pay. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames
Hi Thomas, You know I love writing games. Maybe it would have been nice to be able to make some money at it. But even early on I heard that there was not much money to make. But one major reason that I have never taken any money for any of my games is because I can not afford to. You know if I got any money for my games it would then lower my food stamps, raise my rent, maybe kick me off of my medical insurance and stuff like that. Not to mention just all of the hassle of reporting it all the time. And if somehow I released a game that really sold good and I made a whole bunch of money in one quarter, I might even get kicked off of disability income. And that was not easy to get back on to after the last time that I had a job and went off of it. Oh yeah, and I think that a hobby is more fun than a job. BFN Jim There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames
Bryan, I don't want to get too far afield, but a store refusing to help you shop is in direct violation of the ADA. I'm not saying that a lawsuit is the best or even a good option, but I can understand their anger. As for games, the sighted public has just as much of an entitlement complex. We just don't see it because we're not in the thick of it. Try logging onto any torrent site, though, and see what you find there. I guarantee you'll be amazed--or maybe you won't. Ryan -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Peterson Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 4:13 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames Quite frankly this entitlement view is why I don't have much respect for many blind folks in general, and it's not ust to do with games. I get so mad when I hear people talk about ow they won't participate in an activity unless there's a discount because of blindness. THese are often the same people who'll threaten to sue a store employee if they refuse to help them shop regardless of the reasons for that refusal. But thou must! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames
Hi Jim, Oh, I hear you there. That's definitely one of the hassles with developing games for the blind. Even those of us who do make and sell games there isn't a lot of money to make off of it. If the person happens to be living on public assistance such as food stamps, SSI, etc anything he or she makes ends up having to be reported to the government for tax purposes and the government turns around and slices off a good chunk of his/her disability benefits to make up for the money made on said game. I could go on and on about how many blind people who have tried to get part time jobs etc and slowly work their way off of public assistance only to end up in worse shape than before. So its not really worth selling games unless a person has some other means of supporting themselves besides audio games that's for sure. Cheers! On 4/23/13, Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net wrote: Hi Thomas, You know I love writing games. Maybe it would have been nice to be able to make some money at it. But even early on I heard that there was not much money to make. But one major reason that I have never taken any money for any of my games is because I can not afford to. You know if I got any money for my games it would then lower my food stamps, raise my rent, maybe kick me off of my medical insurance and stuff like that. Not to mention just all of the hassle of reporting it all the time. And if somehow I released a game that really sold good and I made a whole bunch of money in one quarter, I might even get kicked off of disability income. And that was not easy to get back on to after the last time that I had a job and went off of it. Oh yeah, and I think that a hobby is more fun than a job. BFN Jim There is a very fine line between hobby and mental illness. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
