Re: [Audyssey] My Thoughts: Re: the Jehovah's witnesses viewpointon gaming
And yet the author of LOTR himself was a christian and interweeved a lot of his beliefs into the whole story. So I don't quite get that one. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Peterson Sent: 10 September 2009 17:03 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My Thoughts: Re: the Jehovah's witnesses viewpointon gaming My grandma is generally like that and so was my very first girlfriend. You didn't mention Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter or even CHronicles of Narnia around them. I found out that they believed Aslan was actually the devil since God would never give himself any kind of physical representation or somesuch. If they'd react that way about books they'd be just as bad about games. My x and I got into a big argument about an RPG I happen to be a fan of, a series actually, the first of which was called Lufia and the Fortress of Doom. Chelsey's problem stemmed partly from the fact that the heroes were engaged in battle with four godlike beings called Sinistrals. I guess in her mind we hsouldn't fight against a god, however evil he might be. Then there was the fact that the characters had to find and use various magical items to become more powerful so they would stand a chance. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My Thoughts: Re: the Jehovah's witnesses viewpoint on gaming Hi, Unfortunately, I've met my fair share of people like that. My in-laws are a prime example of the type of bigots that they think they are the judge, jury, and executioner on everything and anything regardless if they know anything factual about it or not. Such condemning evidence can come from a brief commercial, what roomers they have heard, or another Christians opinion on the subject. in other words they draw their conclusions not on facts but on other's subjective opinions, comments, and their own bias towards this or that. For example, when I first met my wife her family and I got into a topic about movies, entertainment, etc. I made the mistake of mentioning i was a big fan of Star Wars. Her parents started in on me right away that Star Wars was evil, Satanic, and they had devils in it, etc. It was obvious from the conversation that they didn't have a clue what Star Wars was about, and they had a subjective notion based on completely false information. After arguing back and forth for a while I soon discovered they had seen a commercial for the Phantom menace where they had seen a brief clip of Darth Maul. They assumed because Darth Maul looked like a devil that he was to play the part of Satan in the movie. Their conclusion was totally false, of course, but that's how easily they were convinced Star Wars is Satanic. My point is that if people like that want to be taken seriously when discussing the morality of games, movies, books, whatever they first have to get their facts straight. Only facts, not assumptions, will be a more effective tool in making their argument and will strengthen their case. Simply stating game x, movie x, or book x is evil without offering up real facts or evidence to back up their opinion is meaningless. ChB wrote: The incredibly stupid part is also that usually the ones condemning video games are the ones who have nebver even played a single one of those games themselves. Bigottry comes with a lot of prejudice, be it games or against other minority people. It is probably best to just ignore such attempts and not give it acknowledgement by even bother discussing them. That just makes them think one is taking them seriously. chrissy -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Munawar Bijani Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:44 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] My Thoughts: Re: the Jehovah's witnesses viewpoint on gaming Hi, The articles appeared to have no credible information at all; from start to finish, they kept naming one youth who said this or that. Very rarely did they mention names, and to me that's suspicious as far as their content and research is concerned. Further, they explained their arguments by asking questions. For instance, they ask Could not such games cultivate an unhealthy curiosity about demonic forces? Does this question really prove anything? My answer to that is, no. Sure, some may argue that those types of questions get you to think, but the way I see things, there is no point in asking a rhetorical question if you will not answer it. I see their findings as a bunch of logical fallacies, saying things like If x represents y
Re: [Audyssey] My Thoughts: Re: the Jehovah's witnesses viewpointon gaming
Hi, That's just another example of how diverse opinions can be between Christian groups, and why we should be careful not to paint everyone with the same brush. I've read that J.K. Rowling is suppose to be a Christian, but yet some Christians revile her for writing Harry Potter. There doesn't seam to be any rational or logical reasoning behind such a diverse opinion like that other than the fact some people are more liberal, open minded, and others see everything in shades of black and white. Weather or not the Harry Potter books, games, movies, and toys is actually evil, Satanic, whatever is completely subjective. That's why I think such decisions have to be personal, and someone should base his/her opinion on facts and good research rather than on assumptions. The fact of the matter is there are plenty of good moral lessons found in each of the Harry Potter books worth teaching our children. In the Deathly Hallows Harry rescues Drako from certain death even though Drako really didn't deserve being rescued. However, because Harry was good, a caring person at heart, he put his own safety on the line to save an enemy. That shows good moral character, and is worth passing on to our kids. never mind if the books have magic, people use spells, etc good values are good values no matter in what medium is used to pass them on weather it is a game, book, or movie. Darren Harris wrote: And yet the author of LOTR himself was a christian and interweeved a lot of his beliefs into the whole story. So I don't quite get that one. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My Thoughts: Re: the Jehovah's witnesses viewpointon gaming
Quite right. The thing is people only tend to look at the negatives. Now if you've read lord of the rings, all that whole series there's tons of interesting stuff in that. Anybody who does think that book is for what ever reason evil I would seriously suggest reading it. Especially the silmarilian because there's so much hardship sadness and joy in all of that. I've never actually read a series of books with so much depth to them and especially with fantacy books nothing that could pull the heart strings so much. Take the story of Turin Turambar for example. Great evil was done in that story but there was also good in it as well. If people would only read said books for example instead of judging them without actually looking. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 10 September 2009 18:14 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My Thoughts: Re: the Jehovah's witnesses viewpointon gaming Hi, That's just another example of how diverse opinions can be between Christian groups, and why we should be careful not to paint everyone with the same brush. I've read that J.K. Rowling is suppose to be a Christian, but yet some Christians revile her for writing Harry Potter. There doesn't seam to be any rational or logical reasoning behind such a diverse opinion like that other than the fact some people are more liberal, open minded, and others see everything in shades of black and white. Weather or not the Harry Potter books, games, movies, and toys is actually evil, Satanic, whatever is completely subjective. That's why I think such decisions have to be personal, and someone should base his/her opinion on facts and good research rather than on assumptions. The fact of the matter is there are plenty of good moral lessons found in each of the Harry Potter books worth teaching our children. In the Deathly Hallows Harry rescues Drako from certain death even though Drako really didn't deserve being rescued. However, because Harry was good, a caring person at heart, he put his own safety on the line to save an enemy. That shows good moral character, and is worth passing on to our kids. never mind if the books have magic, people use spells, etc good values are good values no matter in what medium is used to pass them on weather it is a game, book, or movie. Darren Harris wrote: And yet the author of LOTR himself was a christian and interweeved a lot of his beliefs into the whole story. So I don't quite get that one. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.412 / Virus Database: 270.13.89/2359 - Release Date: 09/10/09 11:29:00 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.412 / Virus Database: 270.13.89/2359 - Release Date: 09/10/09 11:29:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] My Thoughts: Re: the Jehovah's witnesses viewpointon gaming
Hi Tom, Yes, I know several groups who have expressly condemned Harry Potter and some places of worship (not necessarily all Christian) have banned their members from reading the books. I agree with your point that in the end Harry Potter shows good character and morale--that friends are important--and that life is a struggle but you have to keep pressing on. I am a monotheist, and one problem I've observed with fundamentalists is that they tell you the only real stories are those found in your holy book. However, kids today are saying we don't care about them, what happened to them happened over 2000 years ago. They need something to relate to in today's times. I see a lot of the common monotheistic practices have been incorporated into Harry Potter, so that's a perfect example. Yet, religious groups are banning it everywhere simply because it contains magic. They're attacking the messenger rather than the message itself and I find that it is hurting the entire monotheistic faith as a whole, simply because people love fundamentalism, so when something like this comes out, most people think look, this is how a Muslim, or a Jew or a Christian acts. Let's be atheist! Munawar A. Bijani Knowledge is of two types: absorbed and heard. The heard knowledge is only useful if it is absorbed. - Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib, Nahj Al-Balagha mailto:munaw...@gmail.com http://www.bpcprograms.com - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] My Thoughts: Re: the Jehovah's witnesses viewpointon gaming Hi, That's just another example of how diverse opinions can be between Christian groups, and why we should be careful not to paint everyone with the same brush. I've read that J.K. Rowling is suppose to be a Christian, but yet some Christians revile her for writing Harry Potter. There doesn't seam to be any rational or logical reasoning behind such a diverse opinion like that other than the fact some people are more liberal, open minded, and others see everything in shades of black and white. Weather or not the Harry Potter books, games, movies, and toys is actually evil, Satanic, whatever is completely subjective. That's why I think such decisions have to be personal, and someone should base his/her opinion on facts and good research rather than on assumptions. The fact of the matter is there are plenty of good moral lessons found in each of the Harry Potter books worth teaching our children. In the Deathly Hallows Harry rescues Drako from certain death even though Drako really didn't deserve being rescued. However, because Harry was good, a caring person at heart, he put his own safety on the line to save an enemy. That shows good moral character, and is worth passing on to our kids. never mind if the books have magic, people use spells, etc good values are good values no matter in what medium is used to pass them on weather it is a game, book, or movie. Darren Harris wrote: And yet the author of LOTR himself was a christian and interweeved a lot of his beliefs into the whole story. So I don't quite get that one. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
