Re: [Gendergap] Hotties are always hot

[John Vandenberg]

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Risker  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 16 November 2013 19:55, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>>
>> Stumbled across this tonight.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:HOTTIE
>>
>> I have never seen that before!
>>
>> "For example, as a general rule, girls named Tiffany and Alicia are almost
>> always hot. Girls named Bertha and Bessie... not so much."
>>
>>
>
>
> Just for the record:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GlassCobra/Essays/Hotties_are_always_notable
> is now the link. I've removed the shortcut because shortcuts are only
> supposed to be used in Wikipedia space, and this sure as heck doesn't belong
> in Wikipedia space!

Is there a policy/guideline against 'WP:' shortcuts that go to userspace?

We have a few categorised here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Redirects_to_user_namespace
... and obviously there are some which are not categorised like HOTTIE
and FUGLY (see below).

Ryan Kaldari tried to delete WP:HOTTIE via process in 2010 and was rejected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2010_August_5#WP:HOTTIE

It was also attempted in 2007:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2007_November_14#WP:HOTTIE_.E2.86.92_User:GlassCobra.2FHotties_are_always_notable

And in 2009 the redirect which was about
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FUGLY was also not deleted

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2009_June_29#Wikipedia:Notability_.28uglyness.29

WP:HOTTIE at least is an attempt to be a sarcastic critic of
notability and WP:AFD which is IMO pretty accurate ( or was when I
hung out in those parts ), and WP:FUGLY probably tries to do the same,
but doesnt have nearly the same value.  If the reader doesnt see a lot
of AFDs, WP:HOTTIE doesnt give enough context to be meaningful.

I think we should have a policy that WP:[anything] shortcuts lead the
reader to something in Wikipedia: space, but it may be hard to
convince the community that userspace pages cant have a shortcut,
especially when they have 250 incoming links.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:HOTTIE&limit=250

We don''t have a shortcut prefix for userspace essays listed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut#List_of_prefixes

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 8:10 AM, Nathan  wrote:
> What about that concerns you? Incidentally I've nom'd the redirect for
> deletion.

which is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2013_November_17#Wikipedia:Hotties_are_always_notable

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Re: [Gendergap] Images of radical feminist protests

[John Vandenberg]

Hi Audrey,

What you are describing sounds like a gallery on Wikimedia Commons.

See the following
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Galleries
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:When_to_create_a_gallery

The Wikipedia article can link to one or more of the galleries on
Wikimedia Commons...
.. and then the Wikipedia article should have a few of the best and
most relevant images, carefully selected by consensus to balance the
need to be informative (and sometimes a bit confronting) without
resorting to including soft porn in an encyclopedia gratuitously.


On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Audrey Cormier  wrote:
> I'm wondering what the thinking is among list members concerning photos
> depicting more militant feminist protest activity.
>
> I've been searching for images on Flickr that relate to feminism worldwide,
> and selecting some to copy to Commons. I've come across a few that are
> definitely in the radical end of the spectrum. The photos themselves range
> from "could be offensive to some people" (e.g. topless demonstrators) to
> "fully intended to be offensive to some/many people" (e.g. anti-male
> graffiti, posters dealing with menstruation).
>
> Now, it's one thing to discuss militancy in an article, it's another to see
> photos. They have documentary value, and I'm of the mind to go ahead and add
> them to the Radical feminism article. Since they were intended to shock,
> though, I do hesitate to do it.
>
> Would they serve an article well, or detract? Opinions?
>
> Audrey
> (aka OttawaAC)
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Breast cancer related information

[John Vandenberg]

The 'getting tested' section looks very North America and 1st world centric.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRCA_mutation#Getting_tested

It would be an interesting Wikiversity project to look at illnesses/medical
procedures/etc with participants from different regions of the world trying
to document how they would need to tackle the problems involved, if it
became necessary.

E.g. where is the nearest place that the test/procedure can be done, and
how frequently do they do the test/procedure as that may be a major
consideration in whether you would travel further to receive more
experienced care.  Is the test covered by public health or insurance? Are
related costs covered? (e.g. travel) How much will it cost.

John Vandenberg.
sent from Galaxy Note
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Re: [Gendergap] #askawikiwoman anything about Wikipedia on Thursday

[John Vandenberg]

What about reddit IAmA?

John Vandenberg.
sent from Galaxy Note
On Jan 15, 2013 6:45 AM, "Sarah Stierch"  wrote:

>  On 1/14/13 11:40 AM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Sarah Stierch  
>  wrote:
>
>
> Are similar things planned for those of us who find Twitter repugnant
> and refuse to use it?
>
>
> Not on my end! It's a common practice to do events like this on Twitter. I
> also have brainstormed doing something similar on Facebook.
>
> I encourage volunteers in the Collaborative and in the Wikimedia movement
> to do events on their own. I'm limited with my time as I step back into
> volunteer mode in a few weeks :) So, I'll be doing it when I have free
> time. If you've got an idea - go for it! :)
>
> -Sarah
>
>
>
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Museumist and open culture advocate*
> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <http://sarahstierch.com><<
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Fwd: J-Lab: Inviting proposals for startup awards

[John Vandenberg]

U.S. only :(

Is there a US list to send this to?

John Vandenberg.
sent from Galaxy Note
On Dec 6, 2012 5:00 AM, "Sue Gardner"  wrote:

> FYI folks. I know J-Lab a little: they're pretty good :-)
>
> Thanks,.
> Sue
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Jan Schaffer 
> Date: 5 December 2012 12:27
> Subject: J-Lab: Inviting proposals for startup awards
> To: Jan Schaffer 
>
>
> J-Lab is now accepting proposals for $14,000 in start-up funding for
> women-led media projects.  Please share with your women entrepreneurs.
>
>
>
> Deadline is Jan. 23, 2013. They can apply here:
> http://www.newmediawomen.org/applying/guidelines
>
>
> And they can see past winners at www.newmediawomen.org.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Jan
>
>
>
> Jan Schaffer
>
> Executive Director
>
> J-Lab: The Institute for Interactive Journalism
>
> Entrepreneur in Residence
>
> American University School of Communication
>
> 3201 New Mexico Ave. NW, Suite 330
>
> Washington, DC 20016
>
> P: 202.885.8100
>
> T:  @janjlab
>
>
>
> www.j-lab.org
>
> www.newmediawomen.org
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikipatia

[John Vandenberg]

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Ryan Vesey  wrote:
> I don’t believe it will be pulling content from Wikipedia considering “2008
> - 2012 Alpha Kitty, Ltd.  All Rights Reserved”.  The content wouldn’t meet
> our share-alike requirements unless those pages were specifically released.
> In addition, it doesn’t appear like it will actually be a wiki, but I could
> be wrong since the site is still in development.  In any case, it seems like
> an interesting site to follow.

I doubt you are wrong, but maybe a bit of outreach will help steer
them towards setting up an open wiki.

"Wikipatia, Feministory & STEMfem are trademarks of Alpha Kitty, Ltd.
All unauthorized use is prohibited."

I'd be surprised if STEMfem was a registered and globally protected
trademarked name.

All by this lady; very repetitive:

https://twitter.com/AlphaKitty
https://twitter.com/Feministory
https://twitter.com/STEMfem
https://twitter.com/CreativeCounsel

http://alphakitty.com/

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Re: [Gendergap] Explosion in listings... Re: Category: Female Wikipedians

[John Vandenberg]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 8:25 AM, Thehelpfulone
 wrote:
> There is another way to look at the number of females who have identified
> themselves as female. I don't know if you remember when you first signed up,
> you probably ended up at Special:Preferences where you entered an email
> address. On that same page there is a field where people can opt to provide
> their gender. I've got a user script that tells me the rights of a user when
> I go to their user page, but at the same time it also tells me their gender
> if stated by usage of the appropriate symbol.
>
> Thus, this information is publicly accessible as far as I am aware and so a
> Toolserver query or similar could be run to get a list of users who have
> identified themselves as female through their preferences.
>
> I don't know if this has been discussed before, I've only fairly recently
> joined this mailing list, but it could be a good way to find an active base
> of female editors to ask your questions to other than the ones that have
> used the user box or are actively participating in gender gap discussions.

I dont recall it being discussed recently.  I would like to install
that userscript, and think a dump of that data would be very helpful.

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Re: [Gendergap] Explosion in listings... Re: Category: Female Wikipedians

[John Vandenberg]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Emily Monroe  wrote:
> So, what are the questions?

Why do women start?  Why do women quit?  Is it different from reasons men quit?

Is there a sector where outreach has a higher conversion rate into
Wikipedian Women?

Is there an age bracket where outreach has a higher conversion rate
into Wikipedian Women?

(e.g.)  I suspect that our women typically come from glam & education,
whereas our men typically come from IT & law.

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Re: [Gendergap] Explosion in listings... Re: Category: Female Wikipedians

[John Vandenberg]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 5:49 AM, John Vandenberg  wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 5:37 AM, Emily Monroe  wrote:
>> So. The implications of this. Good, bad, or does it really achieve anything?
>
> For Australia, it means we can do time series analysis of the gender
> gap based on the October 2010 dataset that Laura Hale published and
> analysed.
>
> http://ozziesport.com/2010/10/expanded-profile-of-australian-en-wp-users/

argh .. correction.. the category was deleted in October 2010 so
Laura's data extract doesnt include this.

We can *start* doing analysis of this .. ;-)

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Re: [Gendergap] Explosion in listings... Re: Category: Female Wikipedians

[John Vandenberg]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 5:37 AM, Emily Monroe  wrote:
> So. The implications of this. Good, bad, or does it really achieve anything?

For Australia, it means we can do time series analysis of the gender
gap based on the October 2010 dataset that Laura Hale published and
analysed.

http://ozziesport.com/2010/10/expanded-profile-of-australian-en-wp-users/

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 5:40 AM, Emily Monroe  wrote:
> Well, a few of my previous accounts may in there, but I put {{Abadoned
> account}} on all of them, so...

The category intersection tools allow pages to be eliminated if they
have a template or category on them.

https://toolserver.org/~magnus/catscan_rewrite.php

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Re: [Gendergap] Explosion in listings... Re: Category: Female Wikipedians

[John Vandenberg]

The category was previously in the userbox until the category was
deleted in 2007 and 2012.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:User_female&diff=139513546&oldid=132724749

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:User_female&diff=509287598&oldid=509248764

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 5:36 AM, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
> It looks like User:Nikkimaria did it:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AUBX%2Ffemale&diff=513502186&oldid=512261233
>
> She added the category to the usercategory aspect of the template.
>
> Woot!!
>
>
> -Sarah
>
>
> On 9/24/12 3:32 PM, Carol Moore DC wrote:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Female_Wikipedians
>
> How did we go from a dozen to 1,700?  Some other category got renamed and
> redirected?
>
> Or some bot added everyone who had one of the user boxes in that category??
>
> Looked at a few and didn't see evidence someone manually added them all.
>
> FYI.
>
> CM
>
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>
> --
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> Museumist and open culture advocate
>>>Visit sarahstierch.com<<
>
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Re: [Gendergap] New gender gap mailing list in German

[John Vandenberg]

Great news Nicole!

Is there any German Wikipedia surveys which can be included on the
following page?

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Editor_Survey

And, has there been any analysis of the WMF editor surveys which can
answer whether their results are applicable to German Wikipedia?

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Editor_Survey_2011#Survey_population


On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Nicole Ebber  wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> we have just launched a gender gap mailing list for the German
> speaking community.
>
> https://listen.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
> Everyone who is interested in discussing topics regarding female
> participation or gender-specific discrimination in the German speaking
> projects is invited to join in.
>
> The mailing list should serve as a platform for connecting and
> exchange and we are looking forward to a respective and fruitful
> atmosphere.
>
> Should you have any questions, feel free to contact me.
>
> Cheers,
> Nicole Ebber
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> Projektmanagerin
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | NEU: Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0
>
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
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Re: [Gendergap] [WikiEN-l] Categorisation by gender

[John Vandenberg]

On Jul 18, 2012 8:56 PM, "Carcharoth"  wrote:
>
> On 7/18/12, David Gerard  wrote:
> > On 18 July 2012 10:47, Andrew Gray  wrote:
> >
> >> I remember it being referred to many years ago as long-standing
> >> practice, but I've dug around a bit in the discussion archives and
> >> can't seem to pin it down. It's probably pre-2004, maybe even pre-2003
> >> - anyone remember?
> >
> > As with almost all our category system, it's basically ad hoc. I
> > suggest if you can propose something not insane to relevant
> > wikiprojects and are prepared to do the bot work yourself, you can
> > have endless fun clicking "save" in AWB for a few hours.
>
> For 1,000,000 articles? I think it should be done, but it will take
> more than a few hours. I think it could be done very quickly, if lots
> of people got involved.

Laura and I did it for Australian sports people.  It is time consuming as
category structures need to be created.

> And I don't think the cases where it is
> unclear or a matter of privacy (a vanishingly small number) should
> preclude the obvious cases being done. It doesn't seem quite right
> that the potential for arguments over edge cases and how to handle
> them sensitively, would preclude being able to search by gender.

When used in category intersections, its really useful info for gender
studies.

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Re: [Gendergap] Phnom Penh Post mentions WikiWomenCamp

[John Vandenberg]

Is there a Cambodian translator that we can use?

Note this was written by one of the women who attended WWC.

More of her stories at

https://www.google.com/search?q=Ko%E2%80%8Buni%E2%80%8Bla+Keo+site:phnompenhpost.com

and

https://www.google.com/search?q=Ko%E2%80%8Buni%E2%80%8Bla+Keo+site:postkhmer.com

On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Laura Hale  wrote:
> There was an article in the Phnom Penh Post about WikiWomenCamp. :D
>
> http://www.postkhmer.com/index.php/national-news/81471-2012-07-05-04-16-38.html
>
> Sincerely,
> Laura Hale
> --
> twitter: purplepopple
> blog: ozziesport.com
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] LGBT mailing list

[John Vandenberg]

Would be good to annouce it on a more general list like wikimedia-l
On Jul 2, 2012 6:09 AM, "Tom Morris"  wrote:

> On Sunday, 1 July 2012 at 22:30, Tom Morris wrote:
> > I'm happy to announce that a new Wikimedia LGBT mailing list has been
> setup. For the time being, it is being hosted on lists.wikiqueer.org (
> http://lists.wikiqueer.org).
> >
> > http://lists.wikiqueer.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-lgbt
> >
> > The list is for discussion of possible future LGBT outreach and
> partnership work, increasing the coverage of LGBT history, issues and
> culture, and any other issues that specifically affect LGBT editors.
> >
> > You don't have to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender to join.
>
> A barely discernible amount of time after Gregory launched it on the
> WikiQueer servers, Wikimedia have decided to allow the list to be created
> on lists.wikimedia.org instead.
>
> Please feel free to join here instead:
>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/lgbt
>
> Sorry about the confusion.
>
> --
> Tom Morris
> 
>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] recognition of gender gap*s* (in the plural) Re: LGBT mailing list

[John Vandenberg]

WMF could put up funding for research to be done by experts.
On Jul 6, 2012 2:06 PM,  wrote:

> Hi John
>
> > havent seen similar quality academic studies about LGBT within the
> > wikimedia community -
> > these studies tend to be very simplistic due to lack
> > if understanding or inadequate funding, and/or riddled with bias without
> > explanation.
>
> so here we can definitely point to a common concern (re the list focus of
> both gendergap and lgbt):
> see e.g.
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/2012-June/002905.html
> and earlier ones in the same thread
>
> John / @all: do you have any suggestion as to what do about this?
>
> cheers
> Claudia
>
> On Fri, 6 Jul 2012 13:28:18 +0700, John Vandenberg wrote
> > Hi Claudia.  There are good numbers for LGBT in real world populations,
> and
> > the people doing the studies are all to aware of the problems with their
> > numbers - there are journals dedicated to research in this discipline.  i
> > havent seen similar quality academic studies about LGBT within the
> > wikimedia community - these studies tend to be very simplistic due to
> lack
> > if understanding or inadequate funding, and/or riddled with bias without
> > explanation.
> >  On Jul 6, 2012 1:11 PM,  wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:47:58 +0100, Tom Morris wrote
> > > > I'm not sure I agree that LGBT is another gender gap.
> > >
> > > my impression is that there certainly are gender gaps in LGBTIQA*
> > > communities - if ever non-heterosexual
> > > people are happy to be lumped together just because of not identifying
> > > non-heterosexual, that is ... -
> > >
> > > irrespective of whether we define "gender" in two (female / male) or in
> > > many (like in LGBTIQA*, with *
> > > including heterosexuals of whatever gender)
> > >
> > > and also, yes, I also think that there is a widespread gender gap
> between
> > > non-heterosexuals and
> > > heterosexuals, "widespread" meaning: in many cultures (and that
> bisexuals
> > > are the freest and hence could
> > > act as the bridge-builders for such a gender gap in a very nice way, it
> > > seems to me)
> > >
> > > > The point of the
> > > [LGBT]
> > > > list isn't that it's dealing with a clear need to increase
> participation
> > > > like gendergap is.
> > >
> > > why is this not intended, Tom?
> > > see also the following:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 6 Jul 2012 11:35:21 +0700, John Vandenberg wrote
> > > > I agree, mostly, but. . my understanding is that the surveys
> (ignoring
> > > the
> > > > faults in them) indicate LGBT may actually be over-represented in
> > > wikimedia
> > > > when compared to the distribution expected by real-world population
> > > > studies; in both men and women.  Im not saying this is bad, but that
> it
> > > > does not appear that there is a LGBT systemic gap that needs a
> strategic
> > > > approach to solving.
> > >
> > > maybe there is another methodological issue here?
> > > why would you want to ignore the faults in wikimedia surveys but not in
> > > outcomes of any study that
> > > purports to "verify" (or whatever) "the distribution expected by
> > > real-world population studies"?
> > >
> > > how can anyone who is doing "real-world population studies" expect to
> find
> > > out anything reliable about the
> > > size of a community who members are still facing systematic social and
> > > political attempts at silencing (about
> > > their way of life) by their adversaries of whatever inclination?
> > >
> > > maybe, hence, it would be more realistic to compare non-real-world
> results
> > > to the wikimedia results?
> > > hypothesis: "over-represented" would start with 51% LGBTIQA* but not
> below
> > > :-)
> > >
> > > anyway, I am not sure I agree with Tom's list of differences between
> the
> > > [gendergap] and [LGBT] lists and
> > > will come back to this later since I think it is more important to see
> > > what these two lists have in common :-)
> > > so I like John's argument that we might learn from each other!
> > >
> > > cheers
> > > Claudia
> [...]
>
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Re: [Gendergap] recognition of gender gap*s* (in the plural) Re: LGBT mailing list

[John Vandenberg]

Hi Claudia.  There are good numbers for LGBT in real world populations, and
the people doing the studies are all to aware of the problems with their
numbers - there are journals dedicated to research in this discipline.  i
havent seen similar quality academic studies about LGBT within the
wikimedia community - these studies tend to be very simplistic due to lack
if understanding or inadequate funding, and/or riddled with bias without
explanation.
 On Jul 6, 2012 1:11 PM,  wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:47:58 +0100, Tom Morris wrote
> > I'm not sure I agree that LGBT is another gender gap.
>
> my impression is that there certainly are gender gaps in LGBTIQA*
> communities - if ever non-heterosexual
> people are happy to be lumped together just because of not identifying
> non-heterosexual, that is ... -
>
> irrespective of whether we define "gender" in two (female / male) or in
> many (like in LGBTIQA*, with *
> including heterosexuals of whatever gender)
>
> and also, yes, I also think that there is a widespread gender gap between
> non-heterosexuals and
> heterosexuals, "widespread" meaning: in many cultures (and that bisexuals
> are the freest and hence could
> act as the bridge-builders for such a gender gap in a very nice way, it
> seems to me)
>
> > The point of the
> [LGBT]
> > list isn't that it's dealing with a clear need to increase participation
> > like gendergap is.
>
> why is this not intended, Tom?
> see also the following:
>
> On Fri, 6 Jul 2012 11:35:21 +0700, John Vandenberg wrote
> > I agree, mostly, but. . my understanding is that the surveys (ignoring
> the
> > faults in them) indicate LGBT may actually be over-represented in
> wikimedia
> > when compared to the distribution expected by real-world population
> > studies; in both men and women.  Im not saying this is bad, but that it
> > does not appear that there is a LGBT systemic gap that needs a strategic
> > approach to solving.
>
> maybe there is another methodological issue here?
> why would you want to ignore the faults in wikimedia surveys but not in
> outcomes of any study that
> purports to "verify" (or whatever) "the distribution expected by
> real-world population studies"?
>
> how can anyone who is doing "real-world population studies" expect to find
> out anything reliable about the
> size of a community who members are still facing systematic social and
> political attempts at silencing (about
> their way of life) by their adversaries of whatever inclination?
>
> maybe, hence, it would be more realistic to compare non-real-world results
> to the wikimedia results?
> hypothesis: "over-represented" would start with 51% LGBTIQA* but not below
> :-)
>
> anyway, I am not sure I agree with Tom's list of differences between the
> [gendergap] and [LGBT] lists and
> will come back to this later since I think it is more important to see
> what these two lists have in common :-)
> so I like John's argument that we might learn from each other!
>
> cheers
> Claudia
>
> On Mon, 2 Jul 2012 09:47:58 +0100, Tom Morris wrote
> > On Monday, 2 July 2012 at 06:24, koltzenb...@w4w.net wrote:
> > > Hi Tom, hi @all
> > >
> > > > Wikimedia have decided to allow the list to be created
> > >
> > > since we are addressing not only one gender gap but, seemingly quite a
> few, including those that come
> alonf
> > > the lines of what has come to be called sexual orientarion, I have a
> question about the creation process
> of
> > > the new list. I recently heard elsewhere that
> > >
> > > it was difficult to bring WF to "allow" the list to be created in the
> frame of lists.wikimedia.org
> (http://lists.wikimedia.org)?
> > > how come?
> >
> > You can see the discussion that led to the creation of the mailing list
> here:
> > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37888
> >
> > I disagreed rather strongly with the suggestion made that two of the
> > proposed list administrators (Varnent and Fae) would have a "POV"*, but
> > agreed to be a list admin instead.
> >
> > Eventually, there was not really any "difficulty", just confusion and
> > miscommunication. All's well that ends well.
> >
> > I'm not sure I agree that LGBT is another gender gap. The point of the
> > list isn't that it's dealing with a clear need to increase participation
> > like gendergap is. It's based on two things: dealing with problematic
> > editor interaction issues if and when they occur and trying to increas

Re: [Gendergap] LGBT mailing list

[John Vandenberg]

On Jul 6, 2012 10:56 AM, "Gillian White"  wrote:
> ...
> I think we should ignore sexual
> orientation on THIS one as it is irrelevant
> for addressing the the lack of female
> participation in Wikmedia projects.

I agree, mostly, but. . my understanding is that the surveys (ignoring the
faults in them) indicate LGBT may actually be over-represented in wikimedia
when compared to the distribution expected by real-world population
studies; in both men and women.  Im not saying this is bad, but that it
does not appear that there is a LGBT systemic gap that needs a strategic
approach to solving. I would love to hear of more research on this wrt
women, as it could help steer our gender gap solution finding efforts.

> Otherwise I want a list for people who
> identify as celibate.

Hehe.  I can imagine that, like the gendergap list full of men(mea culpa;
ora pro me) , list being dominated by sexually active people trying to
'help' the celibate.
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Re: [Gendergap] gendergap research

[John Vandenberg]

Andreas,

ffs can we have one thread where we don't talk about porn.  Or if you
do think porn is a part of the gendergap, pose research questions
which will help test your hypothesis, because that is what this thread
is about.

I want research questions I can put to real academics.
Not bullshit hand-wavey assertions even if they are backed up by a 'citation'.

On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
> The screenshots below are from a blog post by a girl geek going onto 4chan
> /b/.
>
> http://boards.4chan.org/b/ (probably NSFW)
>
> 4chan is the site that gave Wikipedia and the world its lolcats, as well as
> the saying, "There are no girls on the Internet." As you'll no doubt see if
> you navigate to the above address, it is also full of anonymously posted
> girlie pictures, not unlike parts of Wikimedia. One of the board's
> catchphrases is, "Tits or GTFO". Rather male-centric, right?
>
> The Wikipedia article on 4chan is a featured article. (Why am I not
> surprised ...)
>
> The following screenshots are SFW:
>
> http://cultureandcommunication.org/f09/tdm/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Picture-81.png
> http://cultureandcommunication.org/f09/tdm/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Picture-9.png
> http://cultureandcommunication.org/f09/tdm/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Picture-10.png
> http://cultureandcommunication.org/f09/tdm/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Picture-11.png
>
> The following is the dialogue they show:
>
> ---o0o---
>
> /b/abes get no love! I hate you, /b/. Where are the female /b/tards?
>
> in the kitchen.
>
> stop making these shit threads ... girls on /b/ are anon, and stay anon.
>
> i lol'd go make me a fucking sandwich
>
> If girls on /b/ are non and stay anon, why is anon assumed to be male by
> default? Can we just purge all the cam whores, plz?
>
> making me a god damn sammwich
>
> make my sandwich silently
>
> im a girl,im in florida
>
> Tits or GTFO. Pic related.
>
> Girls on the Internet don't fucking exist.
>
> girl, why do you have a pc in the kitchen?
>
> female /b/tard here, trolling threads and not making samiches
>
> Oh silly, there are no girls on the internet
>
> ---o0o---
>
> Now, this dialogue illustrates how anonymous uncensored porn and sexist
> behaviour towards a woman can go together, and reinforce each other.
>
> The blog post the screenshots are taken from is here:
>
> http://cultureandcommunication.org/f09/tdm/elisaverna/wait-did-4chan-just-enlighten-me-i-feel-dirty/
>
> Andreas
>
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Michael J. Lowrey 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Andreas Kolbe 
>>> wrote:
>>> > Please consider the likelihood that there may be a correlation between
>>> > the
>>> > let-it-all-hang-out attitude towards porn, and the problem you describe
>>> > as
>>> > "sexualized behavior – sexist comments and bad manners".
>>> >
>>> > The let-it-all-hang-out approach towards porn is likely
>>> >
>>> > – to attract people who engage in "sexualized behavior – sexist
>>> > comments and
>>> > bad manners", and
>>> > – to repel the type of people who would be "allies within the community
>>> > to
>>> > shoot down behaviour like that (civility!)".
>>> >
>>> > A more responsible and mainstream approach, on the other hand, is apt
>>> > to
>>> > repel the first and attract the second type of contributor.
>>>
>>> {{citation needed}}
>>>
>>> Unquestioned premises almost inevitably lead to false conclusions. In
>>> this case, the unquestioned premise is that those who oppose
>>> censorship are people who engage in (or at least tolerate) sexist
>>> comments and bad manners, as opposed to the possibility that those who
>>> people oppose censorship believe in opposing censorship as a matter of
>>> principle. You are unilaterally defining opponents of censorship as
>>> irresponsible, out of the mainstream, and unwilling to support
>>> civility: again I say, {{citation needed}}!
>>>
>>> (I won't bother to ask for an apology.)
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll work on a citation. But in my experience, the places that are most
>> radically free speech, and most anti-censorship when it comes to porn, like
>> parts of 4chan and reddit, are also places where the level of discourse goes
>> way south. I don't think that is a particularly novel or contentious
>> observation.
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] gendergap research

[John Vandenberg]

Hi Beria,

Which motivation methods do you think work well?

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:
> I think that better than ask why people don't contribute, is better tell
> them why SHOULD they? For us is easier to pass by the fact that not everyone
> knows why they should contribute. We should give they as much info as
> possible to make them a contributor, not asking why they don't do it.
>
> Contribution is almost always a question of motivation, if you don't
> motivate people to do it, they simply won't.
> _
> Béria Lima
>
> Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre
> acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir
> esse sonho.
>
>
> On 30 May 2012 18:47, John Vandenberg  wrote:
>>
>> What research is needed?
>>
>> We have academics across the world who want to do research on Wikimedia.
>>
>> What questions can we put to the researchers in order to obtain a
>> better understanding of
>>
>> * why women don't contribute?
>> * what would help them contribute?
>> * other?
>>
>> --
>> John Vandenberg
>>
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>
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[Gendergap] gendergap research

[John Vandenberg]

What research is needed?

We have academics across the world who want to do research on Wikimedia.

What questions can we put to the researchers in order to obtain a
better understanding of

* why women don't contribute?
* what would help them contribute?
* other?

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Re: [Gendergap] Article for deletion Fanny Imlay

[John Vandenberg]

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:01 AM, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
> On 5/15/12 6:35 PM, Laura Hale wrote:
>
>> From a gender gap perspective of bringing in new female contributors,  I
>> would argue that Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga are much more important than
>> Imlay because Gaga and Bieber are of interest to and more accessible to a
>> greater audience than Imlay's article is. I would further argue that it is a
>> bit elitist to dismiss the importance of improving such articles like Bieber
>> and issues around such articles like Bieber while focusing on narrowly
>> scoped articles that are of limited interest and limited ability to attract
>> a large female audience. We might have issues of educational privilege and
>> class amongst participants here that mean we do not adequately address those
>> outside our own backgrounds.
>
>
> Hi everyone. I don't think anyone is arguing the importance of Justin Bieber
> and Lady Gaga and the attraction that primarily young women have towards
> them. Those articles are also protected, meaning that young women who are
> new to editing most likely wouldn't be able to edit them. I also could argue
> that Lady Gaga could be used to also attract young gay boys into editing
> too. :D  (And Gaga is a good article, needing little improvement it seems!)
>
> I believe it's the Twitter account focus that people are a bit confused by.
> I have a feeling a lot of young women aren't going to be interested in
> editing articles about the Twitter habits of their favorite celebrities, but
> more so the life story of those people. Alas, I don't have any specific
> research to back that theory though. I just am saying it from my own
> experience as being having my own celebrity obsessions when I was a young
> kid. I wouldn't quite go as far to say we have systemtic bias towards Bieber
> or Gaga content, either. I think we all struggle with trying to maintain
> articles about lesser known figures - whether scientists or sports figures.
>
> But, in the spirit of "can o' worms" perhaps Twitter articles for
> celebrities are a slippery slope. I have a feeling that if we get Bieber
> Twitter then we get a Bieber's hair article too =)  (technically his hair is
> notable.)

We're way offtopic, but the original problem is solved so ...

Here is an example where I thought a separate article was uncalled for

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Savage_bibliography

The AFD is all but over, and I am shocked that so many people believe
that this author's collections works and media appearances are
separately notable.  IMO Bieber's twitter account and Bieber's hair
are both more distinctly notable than Savage's collection of works.
people talk about Bieber's twitter account and Bieber's hair all the
time; they do not regularly talk about Savage's works as a collective.
 Obviously, mileages vary greatly.

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Re: [Gendergap] The Dell Summit

[John Vandenberg]

Welcome Elaine, and thanks for keeping this moving!  The comments on
that G+ are very informative.

I'd love to see some reliable sources to back up that
a) it was an attempt at humour
(http://www.comon.dk/art/216015/kvinder-skal-holde-kaeft-boern-skal-have-vaaben-og-vi-skal-knalde-bevidstloese-kaellinger
?)
b) his humour has been regularly found to be in bad taste
(http://mediawatch.dk/artikel/mads-christensen-undskylder-eb-klumme ?)

part (b) establishes that this event is just a once off misunderstanding

still no feedback at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Gender_Studies#Dell_Summit

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Elaine Mao  wrote:
> Dell posted an apology on their Google+ page yesterday:
> https://plus.google.com/117161668189080869053/posts/5Zg5FdFEydi
>
> "During a Dell-hosted customer and partner summit in Copenhagen in April,
> well-known public speaker and moderator, Mads Christensen, made a number of
> inappropriate and insensitive remarks about women. Dell sincerely apologizes
> for these comments...Going forward, we will be more careful selecting
> speakers at Dell events."
>
> Although as CNET's Molly Wood points out, it falls a bit short of being an
> adequate apology:
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-57434780-256/dell-apologizes-for-hiring-sexist-summit-moderator/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title
>
> "Comments on the Google+ apology have noted that it's not a particularly
> visible apology, which is true; it's also a little tepid, primarily touting
> Dell's female-forward initiatives rather than pointing out any actions it's
> taken in response to that incident (a reprimand? a letter of apology to the
> women -- and men -- in the audience that day?). Nevertheless, it's
> something, and it's a better apology than the one Danish Director Nicolai
> Moresco issued shortly after the event."
>
> --Elaine
> (By the way--hello everyone! I don't usually post to this list, which I
> suppose I've been lurking on for some time now, but I've been semi-following
> this thread and I happened to come across this coverage, so I thought I'd
> make myself useful and post an update :) I currently intern in the WMF's
> communications department, and you can also find me at User:Revolutionetc)
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 2:56 AM, Ole Palnatoke Andersen
>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 2:09 AM, John Vandenberg  wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Also worth noting, the Danish Wikipedia description of Christiane
>>> Vejlø (the tweeter) is very similar to that of Mads Christensen, so
>>> they are in the same sector, as is Christiane's husband, and this
>>> could have some bearing on how she wrote her piece about Mads.
>>>
>>> https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiane_Vejl%C3%B8
>>
>>
>> Christiane Vejlø and Mads Christensen are more or less in the same sector
>> (lifestyle and such); Christiane Vejlø's husband is a stand up comedian.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ole
>>
>> Disclaimer: I have participated in a social event with Christiane a couple
>> of years ago. Never met her husband nor Mads.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://palnatoke.org * @palnatoke * +4522934588
>>
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[Gendergap] Junko Tabei, and selected anniversaries on the front page

[John Vandenberg]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junko_Tabei

scaled Mount Everest on 16 May 1975, but you wont see this
anniversary, or any other female anniversary, on the front page of
Wikipedia on 16 May (tomorrow).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Selected_anniversaries/May_16

Here is why:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Howcheng#May_16_anniversaries

Next opportunity to feature Junko Tabei is 28 June.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Selected_anniversaries/June_28

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Re: [Gendergap] The Dell Summit

[John Vandenberg]

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Pete Forsyth  wrote:
> On May 13, 2012 5:40 PM, "Tom Morris"  wrote:
>
>> Have we any sources other than the blog post?
>
> Yes -- the cnet column, among others. But isn't this the sort of discussion
> that belongs on article talk pages, and maybe a wikiproject talk page?

I hope this is a suitable place to start the discussion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Gender_Studies#Dell_Summit

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Re: [Gendergap] The Dell Summit

[John Vandenberg]

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Cynthia Ashley-Nelson
 wrote:
> I would think it could certainly be added to the Mads Christensen article on
> Wikipedia, found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mads_Barner-Christensen.

Dell regional manager apologised, and said it was intended to be satirical.

http://www.business.dk/digital/dells-danske-direktoer-vi-er-superkede-af-sexisme-kritik

other comments on the web indicate it was intended to be comedy.

http://hackerne.ws/item?id=3966706

stupid none the less.  It seems Mads often uses bad taste.

http://mediawatch.dk/artikel/mads-christensen-undskylder-eb-klumme

Also worth noting, the Danish Wikipedia description of Christiane
Vejlø (the tweeter) is very similar to that of Mads Christensen, so
they are in the same sector, as is Christiane's husband, and this
could have some bearing on how she wrote her piece about Mads.

https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiane_Vejl%C3%B8

I'd recommend working with someone who speaks Danish in order to get a
good feel for the reliable sources about this topic before adding
negative content to Wikipedia.

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Re: [Gendergap] The Dell Summit

[John Vandenberg]

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 12:57 AM, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>..
> Glad to see more reliable sources (c-net), could be nice to have this added
> to the Dell article if people see it fitting.

Based on what I have seen so far, adding this to the Dell article on
Wikipedia would be undue weight (and a corporate attack) unless there
was a consistent pattern of Dell selecting twits like this to MC their
events.

Tom has mentioned that Dell has used sexist advertising in the past,
which would be more directly relevant as it is not a once of mistake.
However even that would need to be put in context of the sector to see
whether their use of sexist marketing is worse than others.

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Della_computers

> Or perhaps if we gather enough
> content a "Epic sexist fails at Dell" article is warranted ;)

Has there been any response from Dell about this, on twitter?  Or did
they bunker down and pretend it didnt happen?  How have they responded
to other criticisms..?

A wikinews investigative journalism story would be a great way to
bring more facts about this to the public domain.

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Re: [Gendergap] The Dell Summit

[John Vandenberg]

Maybe we can boycott Dell until they issue an apology, if they havent already.

On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 1:01 PM, John Vandenberg  wrote:
> Not sure what this has to do with Wikis, but its pretty sad all the
> same.  It was a month ago, and not nearly enough has been made about
> it.
>
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-57431869-256/why-we-need-to-keep-talking-about-women-in-tech/
>
> it is getting fresh coverage on reddit too.  Not sure why its revived,
> but it cant hurt to draw extra attention to this.
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/business/comments/tk24s/dell_denmark_had_wellknown_danish_misogynist/
>
> On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Sarah Stierch  
> wrote:
>> Dell held their annual summit this week in Europe. They hired a moderator
>> for the opening day named Mads Christensen who is a media personality that
>> is described as "very conservative" and this also is regarding his views
>> towards women.
>>
>> Excerpts from a blog by a woman who attended:
>>
>> " So here I am at Dell’s huge and very professional summit with founder
>> Michael Dell, top people from Microsoft and Intel, impressive power points,
>> expensive commercials, matching polyester ties and all that jazz, and then
>> the – by Dell chosen – moderator starts to rejoice the lack of women in the
>> room. “The IT business is one of the last frontiers that manages to keep
>> women out. The quota of women to men in your business is sound and
>> healthy” he says. “What are you actually doing here?” he adds to the few
>> women who are actually present in the room. "
>>
>> " Dell’s moderator continues talking about his two Rolex watches and he then
>> presents the next speaker from Intel. After the break Mads Christensen
>> shares with us his whole “show” about the bitchy women who want’s to steal
>> the power in politics, boards and the home. “Science” he calls it and
>> mentions that all the great inventions come from men. “We can thank women
>> for the rolling pin” he adds.  And then the moderator of the day finishes of
>> by asking all (men) in the room to promise him that they will go home and
>> say “Shut up bitch!”."
>>
>>
>> http://elektronista.dk/kommentar/dresscode-blue-tie-and-male/
>>
>> I feel sick to my stomach.
>>
>> -Sarah
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sarah Stierch
>> Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
>>>>Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate today<<
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] The Dell Summit

[John Vandenberg]

Not sure what this has to do with Wikis, but its pretty sad all the
same.  It was a month ago, and not nearly enough has been made about
it.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-57431869-256/why-we-need-to-keep-talking-about-women-in-tech/

it is getting fresh coverage on reddit too.  Not sure why its revived,
but it cant hurt to draw extra attention to this.

http://www.reddit.com/r/business/comments/tk24s/dell_denmark_had_wellknown_danish_misogynist/

On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
> Dell held their annual summit this week in Europe. They hired a moderator
> for the opening day named Mads Christensen who is a media personality that
> is described as "very conservative" and this also is regarding his views
> towards women.
>
> Excerpts from a blog by a woman who attended:
>
> " So here I am at Dell’s huge and very professional summit with founder
> Michael Dell, top people from Microsoft and Intel, impressive power points,
> expensive commercials, matching polyester ties and all that jazz, and then
> the – by Dell chosen – moderator starts to rejoice the lack of women in the
> room. “The IT business is one of the last frontiers that manages to keep
> women out. The quota of women to men in your business is sound and
> healthy” he says. “What are you actually doing here?” he adds to the few
> women who are actually present in the room. "
>
> " Dell’s moderator continues talking about his two Rolex watches and he then
> presents the next speaker from Intel. After the break Mads Christensen
> shares with us his whole “show” about the bitchy women who want’s to steal
> the power in politics, boards and the home. “Science” he calls it and
> mentions that all the great inventions come from men. “We can thank women
> for the rolling pin” he adds.  And then the moderator of the day finishes of
> by asking all (men) in the room to promise him that they will go home and
> say “Shut up bitch!”."
>
>
> http://elektronista.dk/kommentar/dresscode-blue-tie-and-male/
>
> I feel sick to my stomach.
>
> -Sarah
>
>
> --
> Sarah Stierch
> Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
>>>Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate today<<
>
> _______
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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Re: [Gendergap] Crowdsourcing better women's imagery (was Re: Article "Cumshot" in English and German Wikipedia)

[John Vandenberg]

Wikimedia Australia has a program to assist photographers purchasing
equipment if they use Creative Commons licences and properly describe
their images.

http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:Camera_equipment_program

Adding 'other photography related expenses' would be good.

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 4:03 AM, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
> On 5/6/12 1:54 PM, Caroline Becker wrote:
>
> Can we please focus on the idea and facts instead of (in)appropriate tones ?
>
> I think that trying a professional "Wiki Loves Women" before even trying to
> do it as a crownfounded, volunteer project is, as least, strange. It makes
> me sad, as a volunteer photographer, to be "forgotten" or taken for nothing.
>
>
> Hi Caroline. I apologize if the idea (which has barely been fleshed out - it
> was just a bunch of folks tossing ideas around one day and that one came out
> and hasn't been touched since, even the title isn't anything official, I
> just was touching on the crowd sourced idea of say WLM) sounded like we'd be
> paying people to take photographs, that is not what I intended. I think
> having quality equipment and being able to support people with what they
> need financially to make these images happen would be great - whether it's
> purchasing or renting props, renting a studio space, supporting a chapter to
> acquire a camera or quality film equipment, etc.
>
> I like to think that everyone, like Wiki Loves Monuments, who participates
> would be volunteers. I am also a volunteer photographer for Commons. I know
> what type of equipment (whether it's Photoshop or open source applications,
> decent cameras, film equipment, lighting, etc) that it takes to bring high
> quality content that is desperately needed for Commons. I think having high
> quality images taken by participants (whether professional or hobbyist)
> would make a really impressive impact on article quality! I also think it'd
> be able to serve as a cool way to encourage professional and hobbyist
> photographers to participate who might be more interested in taking images
> of people rather than things (not every photographer likes to take pictures
> of buildings!). Many photographers have no clue Commons exists, and this
> could be another interesting way of getting folks involved.
>
> Again, this is nothing that I have solidified or set in stone or even
> thought about since it was discussed last year. I just think it'd be cool to
> see something that involves community (and not necessarily relies on WMF
> grants) within and outside Wikimedia to help fix some of the visual problems
> we have.
>
> Love that project idea you just shared!
>
> -Sarah
>
>
>
> I'd like to know what can be done, what has already be tried, what worked
> and didn't work. If projects
> like http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sarahdarkmagic/prismatic-art-collection?ref=live has
> many backers from this list. In one word, to focus on projects and actions.
>
>
> Caroline
>
>
>
> --
> Sarah Stierch
> Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow
>>>Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate today<<
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Article "Cumshot" in English and German Wikipedia

[John Vandenberg]

On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
> No one here has commented on the fact that the German Wikipedia article uses
> a special, local version of one of Seedfeeder's images. The German version
> is more amateurish, and a little more nasty. Compare:
>
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Wiki-facial_cumshot.png
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wiki-cumshot.png

I noticed that.

However, the German article focuses on the use in pornography, and the
nastier image is more appropriate in that setting.

The English article about [[Cum shot]] drifts into areas that are more
sexuality than pornography, often reproducing content which is on
[[Facial (sex act)]].  German Wikipedia doesnt appear to have an
article about the sexual act.

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Re: [Gendergap] Women's Rights in Wikinews

[John Vandenberg]

On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Gillian White  wrote:
> My first contribution to Wikinews is published today. Yay! Interesting to be
> in a whole new Wikiproject. And it is about a significant step for women.
> http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/First_female_bishop_in_NSW_and_Canberra_consecrated

Fantastic!

We now have WP articles about all three female Anglican bishops

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Female_Anglican_bishops_in_Australia

I've found that the WP list of women firsts didn't include religion,
so I've started the list..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_women_firsts#Religion

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[Gendergap] Fwd: A Digital Dawn - online today to celebrate IWD

[John Vandenberg]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Donna Benjamin 
Date: Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 7:01 AM
Subject: A Digital Dawn - online today to celebrate IWD
To: digitisethedawn 


International Women's Day 2012

The Dawn is now available online.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/title/252

Thank you all so much for playing your part in making this happen.

--
Digitise The Dawn
The campaign to digitise Louisa Lawson's Journal for Australian Women
http://digitisethedawn.org
http://twitter.com/digitisethedawn

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Re: [Gendergap] [wmau:members] Australian women's national water polo team

[John Vandenberg]

Great work Laura and Bidgee!

I noticed a problem with the first image page I clicked on.  Maybe
others have the same problem.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3ANicola_Zagame.jpg&diff=67465143&oldid=67443407

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Re: [Gendergap] List of lists of women

[John Vandenberg]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:44 AM, emijrp  wrote:
> Yes, that is a possible approach John. But I was speaking about comparing
> all the biographies between different Wikipedias and discover missing
> females bios in each one.

Ah, thanks for clarifying what you meant.  Sorry I didnt understand
the first time.
That would be quite easy to do.

It would be very cool if the cat scan tools allowed us to ask for pages that
1. are in category fr:Category:Femme, and
2. do not have any interwikis

> By the way, I'm not interested any more in developing tools or statistics
> for this movement. I recently discovered that WikiWomenCamp[1] is going to
> exclude men from participating. I unsubscribe from this mailing list. Good
> luck.

I hope you will reconsider that emijrp.
You have been a source of inspiration to me and many others.

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Re: [Gendergap] List of lists of women

[John Vandenberg]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:44 AM, emijrp  wrote:
> ..
> By the way, I'm interested in searching for missing female biographies
> comparing Wikipedia biographical corpora in an automated way and make some
> lists of red links. I will think about that.

I've made an attempt at doing this by using a PD Australian book that
included female bios.
Of the 21 female bios I could find, 10 didnt appear to have have a WP bio. ;-(

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index_talk:Johns%27s_notable_Australians_1908.djvu

I see two women at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Missing_encyclopedia_articles/DNB,_people_prominent_in_ODNB
and many more in the pages at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:DNBFooter

The full text of DNB is available on Wikisource:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:WikiProject_DNB/Djvu_files

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Re: [Gendergap] Statistics about gender gap

[John Vandenberg]

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 11:05 AM, emijrp  wrote:
> 2012/2/2 Sarah Stierch 
>>...
>> What else are people seeing in their chosen languages that might be
>> interesting? Anything surprising?
>>
>
> No. Only a few examples where women are 15-25% of edits some days but in
> small Wikipedias or sister projects. They are not representative.

I think (hope..) you might find a high female participate rate even if
you aggregate across all of the Wikisource projects.

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Re: [Gendergap] Statistics about gender gap

[John Vandenberg]

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 8:59 AM, emijrp  wrote:
> Hi all;
>
> Is there any up-to-date statistical tools monitoring gender gap? I have
> started this basic one[1], and I'm thinking about an analysis of male-female
> biographies ratio between Wikipedias.
>
> Suggestions and links to tools are welcome.

> Regards,
> emijrp
>
> [1] http://toolserver.org/~emijrp/wmcharts/wmchart0010.html

Great tool.
The following projects have good female participation:

plwikisource_p
dewikisource_p
eswikisource_p
frwikisource_p

enwikisource_p
itwikisource_p

(does anyone notice a common theme ... ;P)

dewikinews_p
dewikiversity_p
frwikibooks_p
frwiktionary_p

It would be nice to have a list of projects ranked by female
participation rate, using this metric and others that people devise.

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Re: [Gendergap] Commons Searches

[John Vandenberg]

On 10/14/11, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
> Ryan,
>
> Creating galleries would mitigate the problem for these half-dozen searches
> (though not eliminate it, as users would still have the option of searching
> Commons rather than navigating to a Commons page).
>
> But it's like the story of the Dutch boy trying to plug a hole in the levee
> with his finger.

We arnt one dutch boy.  We are legion dutch boys (and an increasing
number of girls) taking turns to plug the metaphorical hole in the
levee, and we scan the wall for new holes.  And we build houses and
windmills at the same time.

We massively distribute tasks while we wait for the developers to
create permanent fixes or create preventative tools.

> (Searching for "levee" in Commons brings up an image of a
> naked Suicide Girl called Levee in third place.)

Its a thumbnail for !@#$ sake, and anyone who finds that image
offensive should turn off their internet connection.

I am sure you'll be appalled that libraries include nude pictures in
their search results, often when searching for something else.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/picture/result?q=contemporary+north+america+20th+century

fix the metadata.

create a gallery page.

create a category and populate it.

etc

p.s. abstract art offends me.  Can we please remove media related to
John Levee's from the Commons search results for the term 'Levee'. ;-)

> We should be under no illusion that we can find all search terms whose
> results violate the principle of least surprise, presenting adult images for
> everyday search terms.
>
> New such situations arise on a daily basis, each time someone uploads an
> explicit file that has a plausible search term in its name and
> description (try searching Commons for "eating", and then search for
> "drinking"; or try finding images of Prince Albert).

The ordering of the search results isnt ideal.  Have you raised a bug?

It puts too much weight on the filename, which isnt good because
recommend against rename, so the current search results are gamable by
the uploader.

> We should simply offer safe search, like Google does.

Google provides safe search.  They need to convert 'the internet' into
a search results page that their customer wants to see, and the
Internet has a whole lot of stuff that 99% of the world never wants to
see.

Wikipedia provides encyclopedic information.

Commons provides a depository of media, and if you search for keywords
in the metadata you'll see thumbnails of the matching media.

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Re: [Gendergap] Women on Wikimedia group

[John Vandenberg]

Have wikichix-l talked about possible solutions to the gender gap?

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Re: [Gendergap] Women on Wikimedia group

[John Vandenberg]

On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:
> Let's not reinvent the wheel, shall we?
>
> A group like Maggie described already exist - for years - under the name
> Wikichix-l (see
> http://lists.modernthings.org/listinfo.cgi/wikichix-l-modernthings.org )
>
> Is a mailing list who exist since December 2006 and the sumary of creation
> was "Angela Beesley announced the creation of a mailing list and Wiki for
> female WMF-projects editors to discuss gender bias and ways to make the
> projects more inviting for women. Discussion followed on whether this is a
> positive development, and whether a number of other divisions will (or
> should) spring up after this."

would it be possible for wikichix-l to give a summary or stats of
activity on the list (number of active participants, etc)?

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Re: [Gendergap] WikiChix

[John Vandenberg]

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:20 PM, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've had a few conversations, and heard/read a number of comments about the
> term "WikiChix." Now I've never been much of a "chick", and it seems other
> women tend to agree in the terminology as being a bit...hokey, old school
> and not the most contemporary.
>
> I'd like to see how we can re-develop the concept into something else. I've
> been using just the simple term of "Women in Wikimedia" etc, but I know
> that's not the most quirky or exciting sound term when it comes to trying to
> be clever at a luncheon or whatever. There's also the "Women of Wikimedia"
> but "WoW"...hehe... "Oh is this a Warcraft meet-up?"
>
> I also joined the WikiChix mailing list over a month and ago and there has
> been no activity. I'm starting to think perhaps we can retire the term for
> the sake of contemporary thinking.
>
> But, perhaps I'm just being uber and everyone thinks it's the cutest name
> ever and should be kept.
>
> Thoughts?

If you contribute to Wikisource, you can become a wikisourcerer, which
has a nice ring to it..

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Re: [Gendergap] Hairdresser

[John Vandenberg]

very nice.

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Re: [Gendergap] Wikiquotes

[John Vandenberg]

Kathleen is a great example of how the English Wikisource community
differs from English Wikipedia.

She was appointed as a sysop in August 2008, after only ~30 'user
talk' messages, and only 5 'talk' messages.

http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&target=Kathleen.wright5&namespace=1
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Administrators/Archives/Kathleen.wright5

(note that we have annual re-confirmation of sysop status)

In the last three years since becoming a sysop, Kathleen has only
needed to block five people and delete 100 pages, and that is
sufficient reason for her to keep the tools in our quiet backwater of
the wiki world.

http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&user=Kathleen.wright5
http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&limit=100&type=delete&user=Kathleen.wright5

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[Gendergap] wikisource

[John Vandenberg]

On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
> Yes! I have never edited or contributed anything to wikiquote. I have
> contributed to Wikisource, and I'm starting to think I'm the only woman who
> ever has, even though it was two documents. I don't even think there is much
> of anything related to women's history on Wikisource...

Ahhh, a topic worth talking about!  If we want more women in our
community, I very strongly believe that wikisource is our greatest
chance of bringing them in.  librarians and local studies in Australia
are mostly women, and they are usually led by women as well, who can
be good champions for our community.  It is a nice quiet environment,
the editing tasks are 'simpler', which provides a nice training ground
for newbies, and the ability to shine new light on old information
gels well with information workers who prefer to blog about insights
into old texts rather than fight to have their text added to
Wikipedia.

FloNight is active whenever she can find time.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/User:FloNight
(i.e. I am confident you can twist Sydney's arm to help you on Wikisource)

One of the two 'crats on English Wikisource is a women.  She is very
active in moderating the tone of the community.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/User:BirgitteSB

There are many more ladies who have been very involved over the years,
and they usually arnt far away.
(people dont rage-quit Wikisource.  Wikisource looses contributors
because they rage-quit English Wikipedia, and they stop editing
Wikisource at the same time.)

If you're looking for a topical place to start, we have portals such as
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Portal:Women

When preparing for a training sessions for Australian
librarians(mostly women) in Miles, Queensland, I extracted a list of
women from a book of notable Australians
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index_talk:Johns%27s_notable_Australians_1908.djvu
Sadly the Wikipedia training session went over the allocated time and
we didnt look at this.  We have another training session for
Queensland librarians coming up soon.

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Re: [Gendergap] Question for the Foundation about photographs of women

[John Vandenberg]

On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Pete Forsyth  wrote:
> It seems like we have strong consensus that a separate "customer support 
> queue", run by and for women, would be a good idea. I certainly think so!
>
> Who here is active on OTRS? I'm on it, and on the email list, but I'm not 
> active there. It might be best for somebody float the idea over there, see 
> how it's received, and if there's agreement, figure out the steps to get it 
> up and running. (I'm sure that having a small corps of female volunteers 
> willing to staff it will be an essential element!)

I'm not very active, .. :/
I've initiated a discussion thread on the private otrs wiki, copying
your email text and linking to this thread.

http://otrs-wiki.wikimedia.org/wiki/Café#queue_for_verified_females

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Re: [Gendergap] So this is how Commons works?

[John Vandenberg]

On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Arnaud HERVE  wrote:
> Well I might have been too quick in judging him, and besides idiocy or
> perversion the reason of his behaviour might have been a complete lack of
> attention. To the point that he didn't even have a look at the photo,
> because if he did and still protected the photo, then I am back at the
> idiocy or perversity hypothesis.

If I understand correctly, one of your concerns are regarding the
image name.  An invalid name isn't a good reason to delete an image,
as images can be renamed.

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Re: [Gendergap] Question for the Foundation about photographs of women

[John Vandenberg]

On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 6:33 AM, Fred Bauder  wrote:
>>..
>> Hi Fred, if it were an entirely separate address it would work, an
>> email address that is only ever read by women volunteers.
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>
> That is the way we need to go with perhaps a panel of specialized OTRS
> volunteers, for this group, and any other which has a significant problem
> in communicating with us in the usual way.
>
> With respect to women with trust issues, it is inappropriate to expect
> resolution of those issues prior to offering accessible and effective
> oversight services.

We've identified the low percentage of women participating as a
significant problem.  It is our problem.  It is not their problem.

We have language specific queues on OTRS; we have country/chapter
specific queues; we have queues with higher privacy bars for
suppression and legal problems.

I think we should try a gender queue.  Whether or not delicacy is
required to handle a specific issue, I believe that directing the
issue to a group of trusted women will increase the chance that they
walk away happy, and possibly even come back.

Where a ticket doesn't benefit from female-female communication, it
can be pushed into the usual queues to be handled by the regular pool
of OTRS volunteers.
However there will be occasions when prompt resolution is less
important, and waiting until a female oversighter is available won't
hurt the outcome.

As this is a key strategic focus of the WMF, it would be good if
anonymous customer feedback surveys were used to gauge how satisfied
women are with the way tickets were handled by OTRS volunteers in this
queue.

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Re: [Gendergap] Question for the Foundation about photographs of women

[John Vandenberg]

If someone sees an image of themself which they want removed, they can

1. email OTRS.

whether the request is received by a volunteer and/or anonymous person
shouldn't matter.  The OTRS policies do matter, esp. the privacy
policy.

For added privacy, they should email oversight-en-wp or the commons
oversight email address (?).

If the complaint includes unresolved legalities, the OTRS ticket (i.e.
email thread) will be sent to the legal team, who are not (afaik)
anonymous.

2. create a wiki account and nominate the image for deletion.

3. use the laws available to them.

> Are they expected to give their real name,

It depends on the option they take

> and how do they prove the image is of them?

If their complaint reaches someone sane, it is unlikely they will be
asked to prove anything.  A simple assertion should be sufficient to
cause the OTRS volunteer to investigate the upload.  Often the photo
was uploaded by an account with very few edits, and the image would be
deleted without much fuss.

I would like to throw this back in a positive direction.  The task of
deleting poor quality photographs (and metadata/provenance/paperwork
is part of quality) is made much easier if we have good quality
photographs of the same topic.  Nobody cares about deletions of bad
photographs when those photographs are no longer used.  They do care
when it is the only photo of its kind, because it is a precious
resource.

As Sarah Stierch points out, our images of sexuality and reproduction
are crap, broadly speaking, and our paperwork/processes are
self-evidently not good for attracting high quality photographs.  What
processes should we put in place to encourage good quality photographs
of this kind.  e.g. should we set up a separate OTRS queue to process
the paperwork for these photographs?   Should it be managed by
verified non-anonymous women only?

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Re: [Gendergap] What to do about sexism when we see it on WP?

[John Vandenberg]

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Ryan Kaldari  wrote:
> Nice find Fred. I hadn't read those before. It sounds like revision
> deletion might be an option in more extreme cases.

Less extreme cases should be taken here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts

I agree with George that care is needed.  Progress will be made when
the more obvious etiquette issues are tackled first.  Reporting lots
of marginal offenses will result in a backlash.

--
John Vandenberg

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Re: [Gendergap] Proposal: Forking gendergap: Main list for women and transgender, sublist for male supporters

[John Vandenberg]

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:01 AM, Steven Walling  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 7:10 AM,  wrote:
>>
>> men post two to four times as much as women (depending on the
>> week), with some men posting a couple times a day.
>
> So, perhaps ironically, we're having a problem with participatory inequality 
> on the gender gap mailing list.
> A power law of individual participation is a natural part of any open forum 
> on the Web. It just seems like, just as on Wikipedia, we want to swing the 
> distribution toward more women as well as men.

;-)

> Maybe we should edit the Code of Conduct as a first step to try and 
> explicitly encourage the kind of participation what we want.[1]
> Perhaps guys leaving the floor open a bit more for women would help. ("Ladies 
> first" as part of the code of conduct? Is that joke too meta to be 
> effective?) I don't think it can hurt to try anyway.
> I think it's going to take a lot more than men being quieter though.

Suggestions to tame the men.

moderation:
1. put all men on moderation, with a female moderator approving their posts, or
2. put on moderation any man who posts more than three times per calendar week

artificial/self-imposed/self-inflicted controls:
1. no threads started by men, and
2. one post per man per thread unless subsequent responses address
them specifically, by name.

--
John Vandenberg

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