Re: How to bring code to Apache?
Henri Yandell wrote: [snip] Any thoughts on the below? [snip] the important part is that the code was developed outside of the ASF SVN repository and the ASF public mailing lists. I struggle with what that really means. Code is technically developed in IDEs on people's machines, not on mailing lists. If I create a new file for an ASF project it's developed on my machine and subsequently committed to the project or posted as a patch. So for sometime the new file was outside the ASF SVN repository and not visible on a public mailing list. What really makes something developed inside the ASF? - intention to contribute to a project? - JIRA entry created before the file is created? - discussion in mailing list before the file is created? - creating the file in a local SVN copy from the ASF SVN? Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Open JPA
robert burrell donkin wrote: the only caveat being DB is feeling a little bit umbrella-ish these days. I've seen this comment a couple of times in the last week or so, but I don't really understand what it's trying to say. What makes an Apache project umbrella-ish? How does umbrella-ish relate to the intended managment of sub-projects by an Apache project? What should an Apache project with sub-projects be doing to avoid being umbrella-ish. Thanks, Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] accept Cayenne into incubator
Andrus Adamchik wrote: Geir, I don't think there is any contradiction between your post and what Mike was saying. If you look at the thread context, we are still talking about how to move with the incubation sponsorship. More to the point, I was the one who started the confusion with the Incubator PMC vote. As far as I can tell it is resolved now. Everybody involved from Cayenne, Incubator, and DB are in favor of DB PMC to be the Sponsor. There has been no vote and no (maybe very little) discussion on DB PMC, so I don't think you can say that everyone from DB are in favor of DB PMC being the sponsor. That may be the case, but there's no evidence for it. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] approve a milestone release of ActiveMQ?
Hiram Chirino wrote: On Feb 1, 2006, at 5:42 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: How should the disclaimer be associated? Well, this is a bit of an issue. Why are the plain jars available? To allow automated downloads by Maven? I have an issue with that, since it could allow people to use the code without knowing that it is in the Incubator, but more to the point, we've had that discussion, and I don't recall the resolution. Even though it's not extremely descriptive, the maven group id that activemq is using is incubator-activemq. So most folks who add the activemq dependency will realize that it's a dependency that's coming from the incubator. I believe that this is the same thing that geronimo and derby did while they were in the incubator. Derby had a README file in all of its jars with the incubator disclaimer text. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RANT] Mission of the incubator
Raphaël Luta wrote: As you can see from the above table, the AjaxTk 2nd proposal was entirely composed of # people, mentor included. AFAIK, that's something that never happened in the Incubator and something I'm keen not to see happening as a precedent. Actually Derby had all IBM committers initially and an IBM mentor (Ken Coar). We used the incubation process to successfully increase the diversity of the community, even when IBM bought the company employing our first (and then only) non-IBM committer. :-) I think everyone worked hard to ensure that it was an ASF project and not an IBM one. Dan. (disclaimer - I work for IBM). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
UPDATED [RESULT] [VOTE] Graduate Derby as sub-project of Apache DB
Daniel John Debrunner wrote: Daniel John Debrunner wrote: So please vote on graduating Derby to a sub-project of Apache DB. Passed with eleven (11) +1 votes (including one ++1 vote :-) Three (3) members of the Incubator PMC voted +1 (Noel, Geir, Roy) Three (3) members of the DB-PMC voted +1 (Brian, Geir, Henning). Ken Coar pointed me to the official list of PMC members which is up to date compared to the Incubator PMC web-site, so I apologise for missing some folks, the correct summary would be (including Cliff's late vote). Passed with twelve (12) +1 votes (including one ++1 vote) Seven (7) members of the Incubator PMC voted +1 (Craig, Noel, Geir, Roy, Alex, William, Cliff) Three (3) members of the DB-PMC voted +1 (Brian, Geir, Henning) Dan. Ref - https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/board/committee-info.txt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RESULT] [VOTE] Graduate Derby as sub-project of Apache DB
Daniel John Debrunner wrote: So please vote on graduating Derby to a sub-project of Apache DB. Passed with eleven (11) +1 votes (including one ++1 vote :-) Three (3) members of the Incubator PMC voted +1 (Noel, Geir, Roy) Three (3) members of the DB-PMC voted +1 (Brian, Geir, Henning). Thanks, Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[VOTE] Graduate Derby as sub-project of Apache DB
Noel said that rather than hassling the Incubator PMC members for release approval, we should just graduate! So please vote on graduating Derby to a sub-project of Apache DB. The developer community continues get the Apache Way and its diversity has increased since the last graduation vote (where it got good reports). We've added five new committers during incubation based upon their contributions, which gives us committers from three independent entities. We've performed two releases (though the latest is waiting approval from the incubator PMC :-) DB-PMC has discussed the inclusion of a sub-set of Derby PPMC members. DB-PMC has voted to accept the project (see status file) http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html - My vote +1. Thanks! Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Derby 10.1 incubating release
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: At 04:30 PM 7/15/2005, Andrew McIntyre wrote: Andrew McIntyre wrote: Hello Incubator, On behalf of the Derby development community, I'd like to request permission to post the files you can find here: http://people.apache.org/~fuzzylogic/derby_10.1/ [...] Should I have posted this as a vote, instead of just as a query? Exactly :) Polls can be interesting, but the bottom line is that three ppmc/pmc/members vote to release the code, and you have more +1's than -1's, it's a release plain and simple. Are the votes gettting confused here, as you say 'ppmc/pmc'. A vote to release has already been held on derby-dev (as Andrew said) that included votes from derby-ppmc. This request is for 'explicit approval of the Incubator PMC' to post the release as an incubator release. Thus I would say votes from derby-ppmc are not binding, only those from Incubator-PMC. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Derby committer update - WAS Re: [VOTE] Derby 10.1 incubating release
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: ++1. It's great to see Derby's progress as a community! Thanks for following up and the compliment!! I'd encourage your ppmc, as you stop to celebrate the completion of this milestone, to look around at the other contributors to the latest efforts, and consider some of the more involved individuals for committer/ppmc promotion. As you are aware, one key point to ultimately graduating a project is a diverse community that does not revolve around any one individual, company, etc. Since Derby became an Apache incubator project we have added five new committers, three in the last couple of weeks. All of the committers when voted in were not from IBM (all of the six initial committers were from IBM since it was an IBM contribution). Subsequently through the Gluecode acquisition one of those committers (the first, Jeremy Boynes) became employed by IBM. Derby has reached the threshold of three independent committers. :-) And all Derby committers are part of the derby-ppmc. (derby-ppmc is working on getting the visible status file at the incubator site up to date. The source STATUS file is up to date and lists the committers and votes (thanks Jeremy), but there is some issue in procedure in getting the source version reflected in the built site). Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RESULT] [VOTE] Add David Van Couvering as a Derby committer
Daniel John Debrunner wrote: Please vote on making David a committer on the Derby project. The derby-ppmc believe David will be a great benefit to Derby. [ ] - Add David Van Couvering [EMAIL PROTECTED] as a Derby committer Passed with 16 +1 votes, no other votes. +1 votes from [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Derby-ppmc members will ensure David gets hooked up with the right karma etc. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Incubator projects lacking disclaimers?
The Incubator policy page is very clear that: 'Podlings are, by definition, not yet fully accepted as part of the Apache Software Foundation. Podling web sites MUST include a clear disclaimer on their website and in all documentation stating that they are in incubation.' http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Branding%0D While that document says other forms of disclaimer can approved by the Incubator PMC, it seems that several of the incubator projects do not have any form of disclaimer. Harmony's site has no clear disclaimer, and its first line is: 'Welcome to Apache Harmony, the J2SE project of the Apache Software Foundation.' which is clearly not the case, according to the incubator quote above. Beehive is also disclaimer free, though since it is close to graduation it may be too late. Should the mentors be addressing this issue for their projects? I know Ken was very quick to notice the initial Derby site did not include it. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Fwd: [VOTE] Add David Van Couvering as a Derby committer]
One more commiter vote notification to general@incubator.apache.org (one day I will remember just to cc general@incubator.apache.org on the original vote post :-) Dan. Original Message Subject: [VOTE] Add David Van Couvering as a Derby committer Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 12:02:14 -0700 From: Daniel John Debrunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Derby Development derby-dev@db.apache.org To: derby-dev derby-dev@db.apache.org Please vote on making David a committer on the Derby project. The derby-ppmc believe David will be a great benefit to Derby. [ ] - Add David Van Couvering [EMAIL PROTECTED] as a Derby committer --- My vote: +1 Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RESULT] [VOTE] Add Bernt M Johnsen as a Derby committer
Daniel John Debrunner wrote: Please vote on making Bernt a committer on the Derby project. The derby-ppmc believe Bernt will be a great benefit to Derby. [ ] - Add Bernt M. Johnsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] as a Derby committer Vote passes, fourteen (14) +1 votes, no other votes. Bernt is now a committer on Derby, Derby PPMC members will ensure Bernt is hooked up with the right karma etc. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[RESULT] [VOTE] Add Øyvind Bakksjø as a Derby committer
Daniel John Debrunner wrote: Please vote on making Øyvind a committer on the Derby project. The derby-ppmc believe Øyvind will be a great benefit to Derby. [ ] - Add Øyvind Bakksjø [EMAIL PROTECTED] as a Derby committer Vote passes, fourteen (14) +1 votes, no other votes. Øyvind is now a committer on Derby, Derby PPMC members will ensure Øyvind is hooked up with the right karma etc. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: svn commit: r178965 - /incubator/public/trunk/site-author/learn/newcommitters.html
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: At 05:42 AM 7/7/2005, Roy T. Fielding wrote: Right now I see this process as a mixed bag that is made much harder by the disjoint between the incubator PMC and the incubated projects' private lists. I wonder what would happen if we made a single [EMAIL PROTECTED] list for all the podlings instead of the separate ppmc lists? or [EMAIL PROTECTED] (until we rename these to private across the ASF). I'll give a huge +1 to your idea though. I agree that only people discussions and confidential negotiations belong on private@, and by watching other ppmc's grapple with these issues, all of our incubating projects will learn from one another. A combined list has the possibility of a potential committer to incubator project X seeing discussion about themselves because they are a committer on incubator project Y. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: svn commit: r178965 - /incubator/public/trunk/site-author/learn/newcommitters.html
Noel J. Bergman wrote: Ken expressed concern: Please note that the text did offer either approach as acceptable, and up to each PMC, so I am not entirely sure of the real point of contention. If the PMC prefers one over the other, use it. But only one is described as '... Best Practice for ASF projects ...' and since text is aimed at incubator projects, it seems such projects will try to follow the ASF best practice, so it's not really a balanced choice between the two. The history of this discussion was that folks were somewhat unhappy that the Derby PPMC voted a committer in without following either of the ways described, even though that document was added after the vote was complete! So to make every one happy we voted to changed to the ASF best practice as described on the incubator site, and then still there are complaints. As an incubator project it sometimes feels you can't win because there is no single idea of how an ASF project should be run. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Fwd: [VOTE] Add Bernt M Johnsen as a Derby committer]
After re-reading the Incubator's new committer document, I think I need to send this committer vote notice to the general incubator list. [ reference http://incubator.apache.org/learn/newcommitters.html ] Dan. Original Message Subject: [VOTE] Add Bernt M Johnsen as a Derby committer Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 07:33:24 -0700 From: Daniel John Debrunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Derby Development derby-dev@db.apache.org To: derby-dev derby-dev@db.apache.org Please vote on making Bernt a committer on the Derby project. The derby-ppmc believe Bernt will be a great benefit to Derby. [ ] - Add Bernt M. Johnsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] as a Derby committer --- My vote: +1 Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Fwd: [VOTE] Add Øyvind Bakksjø as a Derby committer]
One more commiter vote notification to general@incubator.apache.org Dan. Original Message Subject: [VOTE] Add Øyvind Bakksjø as a Derby committer Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 07:50:17 -0700 From: Daniel John Debrunner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Derby Development derby-dev@db.apache.org To: derby-dev derby-dev@db.apache.org Please vote on making Øyvind a committer on the Derby project. The derby-ppmc believe Øyvind will be a great benefit to Derby. [ ] - Add Øyvind Bakksjø [EMAIL PROTECTED] as a Derby committer --- My vote: +1 Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: releasing from incubator? -- was: Re: a beehive release and the JSR 181 TCK issue
Richard Feit wrote: I've been a bit hung up on the idea that since Derby has done several official releases from within the Incubator (e.g., Version 10.0.2.1 at http://incubator.apache.org/derby/derby_downloads.html#Official+Releases ), Beehive should be able to do the same thing. I think a lot of us have been thinking that an official release would help to be able to express to potential developers that this is a serious project, with production-quality code. Just to clarify, Derby has done one release while in incubation, not several. We are working on the groundwork for a second release. Given Noel's recent comments, the download page was changed to 'Incubator Release'. I believe releases are a part of developing the community, have to give something to people so they can find out what itches they have to scratch. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: releasing from incubator? -- was: Re: a beehive release and the JSR 181 TCK issue
Cliff Schmidt wrote: Here is my opinion on the whole release issue, which has not changed in 18 months since the first big discussion of releases and incubation branding. [snip] Maybe folks are confused by this sentence in the 'Minimum Exit Requirements' section. http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Minimum+Exit+Requirements quote Note: incubator projects are not permitted to issue an official Release. Test snapshots (however good the quality) and Release plans are OK. /quote Maybe it should be removed? It does tend to contradict the bullet it is under. :-) Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Derby from the incubator
Roy T. Fielding wrote: [snip] We have the same problems as Derby within the Jackrabbit project, though not only did we *start* with a far more diverse set of committers, we actively encouraged new folks to take responsibility for their own contributions. Nevertheless, it is quite clear to me that we haven't reached the point of graduation, and not just because the JCR spec is unfinished. There simply isn't enough actively diverse participation to cause everyone to make all design decisions on the list instead of in private mail or hallway conversations. I personally don't see this problem with Derby, all Derby design decisions seem to be happening on the list. So I'm not sure if Jackrabbit and Derby have the same problems. Derby has a diversity of developers on the list, but not in its committers. Everyone on the derby-dev list is encouraged to be involved in all discussions, decisions votes. I think the lack of independence in its committers is Derby's only problem, but that does not mean in this case a lack of diversity in its developer base. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Graduate Derby from the incubator
Brian Behlendorf wrote: If there really is still just one outside committer, then in my opinion the community has not yet passed that test; and rather than coding, those who care about that project should be advocating its existance to others, giving presentations at conferences, Pity my Derby internals proposal was rejected by Apachecon Europe :-) The solution there is to slow down the pace of coding and do more community development, and ask why are there so few other developers?. There are actually four committers (I'm one) and five other developers who are employed by IBM and work on the database internals code, and there are 219 people subscribed to Derby's developer list, and posts from 228 authors this year. So it's not a case of 'so few other developers', some of those developers are contributing patches for bugs and features and are progressing towards being committers. Derby seems to have a reasonable number of people subscribed to its developer list compared to other Apache projects, from looking at Ken's mailing list page, I think Derby is around 25th based upon number of subscribers out of all active Apache developer lists, and most above it are in the 240-300 range, so Derby is in line there. Derby is possibly the highest developer subscriber count for an incubator project. iBatis is at 54 subscribers and nutch at 140, both of which I think have been approved to graduate. http://people.apache.org/~coar/mlists.html The developers employed by IBM know that and practice that all Derby discussion takes place on the developer list, we have been helping out anyone on the list who asks questions about internals etc, several IBM folks have spent time writing up internal information and posting it to the list, we've presented at conferences. I think the activity on the list shows that an active multi-participant community has been built. I think it goes to Ken's question of how much more can the incubator project benefit Derby. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is HSQLDB compatible with ASF license?
Hi all, I love Derby, but for unit testing it's just too slow. We used to use HSQLDB before iBATIS joined ASF, but I switched to Derby it because I wasn't sure if HSQLDB was compatible with the ASF license. There has been some discussion of adding a lower durability option to Derby, which would allow much faster database creation etc. for unit testing. Some internal testing flags already exist so I believe it's a fairly small amount of work to externalize them in a rational way. Come to the derby-dev list get involved to bring the issue up again (or fix it yourself)! I'm not sure how hsqldb can be used as a test database, given that multiple threads can overwrite each other, due to hsqldb only supporting dirty read mode (no isolation). Thus if you see incorrect results it seems you have to work out if hsqldb is the problem or your application. Dan. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
