Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
Could you please elaborate on how these projects have achieved these aims under the current PMC? no. I'm very interested in where Apache/Jakarta members have been/are currently excluded, and how the new PMC will stop this from happening. I've no desire to engage. Stand down from red alert. -Andy -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
+1 - Morgan --- Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip/ The next board meeting is the 19th. My suggestion is that current PMC members nominate individuals that they believe should be on the PMC by the 9th, then we hold a vote on these nominees to be complete on the 12th. This is to be followed this up with nominations for chair from people in the (potentially expanded) PMC ranks by the 16th. An election where every member of the PMC has one vote, will then commence, to be completed on the 18th. If there are concerns about not wishing one's votes to be known, I can ask the board for an independent set of participants to tally the votes. In any case, I can inform the board of the results (potentially jointly with my intended successor) on the 19th. How does this sound? - Sam Ruby = Morgan Delagrange http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs http://jakarta.apache.org/commons http://axion.tigris.org http://jakarta.apache.org/watchdog __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
I nominate Sam Ruby whom I sometimes, often would be too strong of a word, disagree with but always respect his integrity and belief in community-based software development. I too would like to see some changes, but Sam has outlined, several times, most of the changes that I'd actually like to see. The remainder of which, I'm not certain that the Jakarta community of the whole has control over. One change I do not wish to see are projects which specifically exclude Apache/Jakarta members due to the cult of personality of one of its participants, even its prinicipal participant. Personally, I mark my graduation from pre-pubescence not on any biological definition rather the day that I learned to work in close quarters with those whom my personality or personal philosophy disagreed with or to extract myself from the situation rather than the other way around. Yesterday was a good day :-p -Andy Sam Ruby wrote: Jason van Zyl wrote: Sorry Rob Oxspring and Jason van Zyl. Also, how is the chair position being selected now? By peer PMC members or by the entire body of Jakarta committers? Technically, the chair position is chosen by the board. In practice, the board gives great value to the desires of the project. Historically, votes on the chair has been done by votes of the PMC members. I ask because I have an essay to present and I would like to run for the chair position as I feel it's time for some changes around here. Excellent. The next board meeting is the 19th. My suggestion is that current PMC members nominate individuals that they believe should be on the PMC by the 9th, then we hold a vote on these nominees to be complete on the 12th. This is to be followed this up with nominations for chair from people in the (potentially expanded) PMC ranks by the 16th. An election where every member of the PMC has one vote, will then commence, to be completed on the 18th. If there are concerns about not wishing one's votes to be known, I can ask the board for an independent set of participants to tally the votes. In any case, I can inform the board of the results (potentially jointly with my intended successor) on the 19th. How does this sound? - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
I nominate Sam Ruby with whom I sometimes (often would be far too strong of a word) disagree with, but whose integrity and belief in community-based software development I always respect. I too would like to see some changes, but Sam has outlined, several times, most of the changes that I'd actually like to see. The remainder of which, I'm not certain that the Jakarta community of the whole has control over and the others I feel I can hopefully convince him of over time. If I cannot then I One change I do not wish to see are projects which specifically exclude Apache/Jakarta members due to the cult of personality of one of a project's participants, even its prinicipal participant. Personally, I mark my graduation from pre-pubescence not on any biological definition rather the day that I learned to work in close quarters with those whom my personality or personal philosophy disagreed with or to extract myself from the situation rather than the other way around when cooperation is not possible. Yesterday was a good day :-P -Andy Sam Ruby wrote: Jason van Zyl wrote: Sorry Rob Oxspring and Jason van Zyl. Also, how is the chair position being selected now? By peer PMC members or by the entire body of Jakarta committers? Technically, the chair position is chosen by the board. In practice, the board gives great value to the desires of the project. Historically, votes on the chair has been done by votes of the PMC members. I ask because I have an essay to present and I would like to run for the chair position as I feel it's time for some changes around here. Excellent. The next board meeting is the 19th. My suggestion is that current PMC members nominate individuals that they believe should be on the PMC by the 9th, then we hold a vote on these nominees to be complete on the 12th. This is to be followed this up with nominations for chair from people in the (potentially expanded) PMC ranks by the 16th. An election where every member of the PMC has one vote, will then commence, to be completed on the 18th. If there are concerns about not wishing one's votes to be known, I can ask the board for an independent set of participants to tally the votes. In any case, I can inform the board of the results (potentially jointly with my intended successor) on the 19th. How does this sound? - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/03/2003 01:51:36 AM: I nominate Sam Ruby whom I sometimes, often would be too strong of a word, disagree with but always respect his integrity and belief in community-based software development. I too would like to see some changes, but Sam has outlined, several times, most of the changes that I'd actually like to see. The remainder of which, I'm not certain that the Jakarta community of the whole has control over. One change I do not wish to see are projects which specifically exclude Apache/Jakarta members due to the cult of personality of one of its participants, even its prinicipal participant. Personally, I mark my graduation from pre-pubescence not on any biological definition rather the day that I learned to work in close quarters with those whom my personality or personal philosophy disagreed with or to extract myself from the situation rather than the other way around. Could you please elaborate on how these projects have achieved these aims under the current PMC? I'm very interested in where Apache/Jakarta members have been/are currently excluded, and how the new PMC will stop this from happening. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/03/2003 01:51:36 AM: I nominate Sam Ruby whom I sometimes, often would be too strong of a word, disagree with but always respect his integrity and belief in community-based software development. I too would like to see some changes, but Sam has outlined, several times, most of the changes that I'd actually like to see. The remainder of which, I'm not certain that the Jakarta community of the whole has control over. One change I do not wish to see are projects which specifically exclude Apache/Jakarta members due to the cult of personality of one of its participants, even its prinicipal participant. Personally, I mark my graduation from pre-pubescence not on any biological definition rather the day that I learned to work in close quarters with those whom my personality or personal philosophy disagreed with or to extract myself from the situation rather than the other way around. Could you please elaborate on how these projects have achieved these aims under the current PMC? I'm very interested in where Apache/Jakarta members have been/are currently excluded, and how the new PMC will stop this from happening. Given the context, I can only presume that Andy was referring to emails such as this one [1]. If I am incorrect, I expect Andy will correct me. How will the new PMC stop this from happening? I have not specified a timetable for this change to occur (I am being very careful and deliberate in the evolotion of the current structure of Jakarta to conform to the wishes of the ASF board), but the direction Jakarta is heading is to make the release votes of any software from Jakarta to be the purvue of the PMC. In other words, only PMC members can issue binding votes on such matters. Note that such votes are by design majority votes, so are not subject to veto. Before this change occurs, I have been supporting the efforts of various subprojects to become independent projects, and to significantly expand the membership of the Jakarta PMC. Furthermore, I expect that the resolution to establish the Maven PMC will be satisfactorily resolved long before the change I describe above is put into place. Note: even if there is a chairman change for Jakarta, the chairman would still need to address the same concerns of the ASF board in this matter. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au [1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=104448400328715w=2 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
Jason van Zyl wrote: On Sun, 2003-03-02 at 05:12, Sam Ruby wrote: I ask because I have an essay to present and I would like to run for the chair position as I feel it's time for some changes around here. Jason, In light of your comments in http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=104448400328715w=2 can you, if you become the Jakarta PMC chair, collaborate with Nicola Ken Barozzi. -- Nick Chalko Show me the code. Centipede Ant + autodownloadable build plugins + needed jars autodownload. http://krysalis.org/centipede - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
Sam Ruby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/03/2003 10:24:53 AM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 04/03/2003 01:51:36 AM: I nominate Sam Ruby whom I sometimes, often would be too strong of a word, disagree with but always respect his integrity and belief in community-based software development. I too would like to see some changes, but Sam has outlined, several times, most of the changes that I'd actually like to see. The remainder of which, I'm not certain that the Jakarta community of the whole has control over. One change I do not wish to see are projects which specifically exclude Apache/Jakarta members due to the cult of personality of one of its participants, even its prinicipal participant. Personally, I mark my graduation from pre-pubescence not on any biological definition rather the day that I learned to work in close quarters with those whom my personality or personal philosophy disagreed with or to extract myself from the situation rather than the other way around. Could you please elaborate on how these projects have achieved these aims under the current PMC? I'm very interested in where Apache/Jakarta members have been/are currently excluded, and how the new PMC will stop this from happening. Given the context, I can only presume that Andy was referring to emails such as this one [1]. If I am incorrect, I expect Andy will correct me. Given [2] and [3], I would have thought it reasonably obvious that this was not intended for public review, and that Jason was unusually stressed by family events. This is the second time that particular email has been referenced without context, which I find a little inconsiderate to both Nicola and Jason, given the cirumstances. But anyways, Jason is not a project (James is :) ), and, as on most other jakarta projects, one person doesn't make the decisions. Personality conflicts and that one person doesn't 'get along' with another is something that we all learn to deal with in real life. That it happens @ Apache should be of no great surprise. I don't expect the Jakarta Project, or the ASF, to be perfect, and will work around the issues that crop up. Other people will do what they see as right. How will the new PMC stop this from happening? I have not specified a timetable for this change to occur (I am being very careful and deliberate in the evolotion of the current structure of Jakarta to conform to the wishes of the ASF board), but the direction Jakarta is heading is to make the release votes of any software from Jakarta to be the purvue of the PMC. In other words, only PMC members can issue binding votes on such matters. Note that such votes are by design majority votes, so are not subject to veto. What does this mean, exactly? That if the Jakarta PMC doesn't like the behaviour of one person on a project, they will veto the release of software that the person was involved in creating? I'm hoping I misunderstand you on this. [2] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=104448423329090w=2 [3] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=104448469829716w=2 -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work: http://www.multitask.com.au - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
On Mon, 2003-03-03 at 18:33, Nick Chalko wrote: Jason van Zyl wrote: On Sun, 2003-03-02 at 05:12, Sam Ruby wrote: I ask because I have an essay to present and I would like to run for the chair position as I feel it's time for some changes around here. Jason, In light of your comments in http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=104448400328715w=2 can you, if you become the Jakarta PMC chair, collaborate with Nicola Ken Barozzi. I'm sure I could find a way but it's not likely that I will ever be the chair of Jakarta. -- jvz. Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tambora.zenplex.org In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it. -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
Pete Kazmier wrote: I believe you have omitted an individual from this list. Jason Van Zyl was included among the nominated that passed the nomination vote: http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]msgNo=14489 OUCH! I stand corrected. Thanks Pete. When updating the official list (in the committers repository, directory board/committee-info.txt), it occurred to me that a three column format might be easier to read, so I wrote a little script. Unfortunately, a roundoff error made *two* people not appear on the list as 35 is not evenly divisible by three). Sorry Rob Oxspring and Jason van Zyl. Both names are present in the official list. Danny AngusDiane HoltMartin Poeschl Nicola Ken Barozzi Larry Isaacs Dmitri Plotnikov Stefan Bodewig John KeyesSam Ruby Peter Carlson Thomas Mahler Scott Sanders Martin Cooper Conor MacNeillDavid Sean Taylor Morgan Delagrange Geir Magnusson Jr.Glen Stampoultzis Robert Burrel Donkin Remy MaucheratJames Strachan Ted Husted Craig McClanahan Mladen Turk Ceki Gülcü Costin Manolache James Turner Henri GomezGlenn Nielsen Rod Waldhoff Otis Gospodnetic Andrew C Oliver Henri Yandell ++ Rob Oxspring Jason van Zyl - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
Sam Ruby wrote: (...) OUCH! I stand corrected. Thanks Pete. When updating the official list (in the committers repository, directory board/committee-info.txt), it occurred to me that a three column format might be easier to read, so I wrote a little script. Unfortunately, a roundoff error made *two* people not appear on the list as 35 is not evenly divisible by three). We can blame Pier Paolo Fumagalli for this one. 36 would not have raised such a politically incorrect bug. ;-) Regards, Santiago (walking on thin ice, WRT jokes) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
On Sun, 2003-03-02 at 05:12, Sam Ruby wrote: Pete Kazmier wrote: I believe you have omitted an individual from this list. Jason Van Zyl was included among the nominated that passed the nomination vote: http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]msgNo=14489 OUCH! I stand corrected. Thanks Pete. When updating the official list (in the committers repository, directory board/committee-info.txt), it occurred to me that a three column format might be easier to read, so I wrote a little script. Unfortunately, a roundoff error made *two* people not appear on the list as 35 is not evenly divisible by three). Sorry Rob Oxspring and Jason van Zyl. Also, how is the chair position being selected now? By peer PMC members or by the entire body of Jakarta committers? I ask because I have an essay to present and I would like to run for the chair position as I feel it's time for some changes around here. -- jvz. Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tambora.zenplex.org In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it. -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
Jason van Zyl wrote: Sorry Rob Oxspring and Jason van Zyl. Also, how is the chair position being selected now? By peer PMC members or by the entire body of Jakarta committers? Technically, the chair position is chosen by the board. In practice, the board gives great value to the desires of the project. Historically, votes on the chair has been done by votes of the PMC members. I ask because I have an essay to present and I would like to run for the chair position as I feel it's time for some changes around here. Excellent. The next board meeting is the 19th. My suggestion is that current PMC members nominate individuals that they believe should be on the PMC by the 9th, then we hold a vote on these nominees to be complete on the 12th. This is to be followed this up with nominations for chair from people in the (potentially expanded) PMC ranks by the 16th. An election where every member of the PMC has one vote, will then commence, to be completed on the 18th. If there are concerns about not wishing one's votes to be known, I can ask the board for an independent set of participants to tally the votes. In any case, I can inform the board of the results (potentially jointly with my intended successor) on the 19th. How does this sound? - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
I believe you have omitted an individual from this list. Jason Van Zyl was included among the nominated that passed the nomination vote: http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]msgNo=14489 Danny AngusDiane HoltMartin Poeschl Nicola Ken Barozzi Larry Isaacs Dmitri Plotnikov Stefan Bodewig John KeyesSam Ruby Peter Carlson Thomas Mahler Scott Sanders Martin Cooper Conor MacNeillDavid Sean Taylor Morgan Delagrange Geir Magnusson Jr.Glen Stampoultzis Robert Burrel Donkin Remy MaucheratJames Strachan Ted Husted Craig McClanahan Mladen Turk Ceki Gülcü Costin Manolache James Turner Henri GomezGlenn Nielsen Rod Waldhoff Otis Gospodnetic Andrew C Oliver Henri Yandell - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Current roster of the Jakarta PMC
Danny AngusDiane HoltMartin Poeschl Nicola Ken Barozzi Larry Isaacs Dmitri Plotnikov Stefan Bodewig John KeyesSam Ruby Peter Carlson Thomas Mahler Scott Sanders Martin Cooper Conor MacNeillDavid Sean Taylor Morgan Delagrange Geir Magnusson Jr.Glen Stampoultzis Robert Burrel Donkin Remy MaucheratJames Strachan Ted Husted Craig McClanahan Mladen Turk Ceki Gülcü Costin Manolache James Turner Henri GomezGlenn Nielsen Rod Waldhoff Otis Gospodnetic Andrew C Oliver Henri Yandell - Sam Ruby - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
