Re: Comment for Apache.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The list is named [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ok, I suggest the creation of such mailing list and the creation of a Jon page explaining the whole Jon issue... linked from Jakarta's home page, of course. snip Hm... Is Jon becoming the Richard Stallman of the Apache Software Foundation ;) ;) ha. - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Without enlightenment, there is only ignorance. -- famous Zen Koan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8Fw8eAwM6xb2dfE0RArjpAKCOCX495SaPwyj7PAN60PWv58rfUQCgmC3K 5n1ERcHsxeNulR8yvrNjoRc= =LR7V -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Comment for Apache.org
-Original Message- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [...] Now, I'm going to go back and start writing some more code (and answering some more user questions). I suggest we all do the same. Craig, While I more than vastly respect the huge work you are doing in both contributed code and user questions answers (I'm puzzled at how productive you are compared to me and how you can answer hundred of times the same question in a relax attitude !), I have no idea what is the right attitude to adopt in some cases... There is some part of user education..what are we supposed to do then..say oh well bear with it or try to educate users sometimes in a rude way like parents do with their children (probably more in Europe than in US though) I was sometimes kicked by Jon, but eh, he was damn right, I was being stupid and did not do my homework. It sometimes happens to Jon as well too, but we are all human and make mistakes and should put back on the right way sometimes. If we do not then we take everything for granted. I just had the same problem a couple of hours ago. Someone asked how to retrieve the servlet parameters from web.xml, I replied with the link to the servlet api..then I got a private email please help, could you give the name of class that does it. Like what he did not even read the docs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
Stephane Bailliez wrote: I just had the same problem a couple of hours ago. Someone asked how to retrieve the servlet parameters from web.xml, I replied with the link to the servlet api..then I got a private email please help, could you give the name of class that does it. Like what he did not even read the docs Personally, if its an email I don't want to answer, I either ignore it or refer them to the user list. The best place to post a question like this is ..., where there are more people to help you. If I do feel like replying, I usually reply to the list instead, so it ends up on the archive. If a user posts a USER list question to DEV, I often do both. The best place to post a question like this is the USER list, but Just so I don't have to deal with it again later. If it's a question to the Jakarta webmaster box, I refer them to the USER list for the product, and include a link to Jon's very excellent Jakarta Mailing Lists for Dummies page. (I really need to put one of these in front of the Webmaster link sometime.) Most often, it's not what you say, but what you don't say. Usually, it's just a matter of leaving out the trailing , idiot clause. This saves everyone energy all around. The most important thing to remember is that we are all volunteers here, and we are not alone. If you don't want to do something, don't do it. Someone else will step in ... that's what meritocracy is all about. The more you do, the more you are expected to do. The corollary is, the less you do, the more someone else will do instead. -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Custom Software ~ Technical Services. -- Tel +1 716 737-3463 -- http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
Hi everyone, Thanks for the email, and also Jon.. ;).. I just want and try to integrate the PMC model with JBoss, and my own model..I think this will be a good model, even for my company that use several open source project component. I just want to compare my experience in managing project and Jboss model with Apache model.. JBoss (Marc) wants to full time in JBoss, buy commercialing Documentation, and want to add forum to his web site (we will see it soon).. because he don't agree with Apache model (volunteer). I think that is true.. But, I see there is a good and bad things in every model, esp, when the leader is gone (like my sample is Stefano, and I found Kevin the burtantor --- never get his commit in his Jetspeed in this year.. except his email for launching a OpenPrivacy.org - busy with Reptile :) )... Hi Kevin... The cocoon development still continue...and the cocoon 2 is better, but.. I have to scratch all the cocoon project because using cocoon 1.8.3..I work for 1 year for that.. learn from how to install, and try to learn behavior of Cocoon... This happen in Jetspeed from 1.3a1 to 1.3a2, but thanks they only change to .xreg, extension only.. But, where is the draft of the xreg?? I just can find it in proposal folder in CVS.. - Is there a way that in progress from the PMC, to increase the rapid of development of their project using this method (I call it traditional method) for a developer not in commiter level?? So all developer who interest with development of open source can learn the project in faster, may be 1-2 weeks, and after that can try to play around with the code.. Several people can read the code, but my approach in my company, try to make like a pseudo code or diagrm to explain of it, before the script is created. - I try to create a model, because several of my software is based on Open Source Project (Cocoon, Jetspeed). This is the hierarchy.. PMC (We called it solution leader) -- Program Manager -- Project Manager -- Project Leader (always 2, Techical Leader, and Project Coordinator / Documentator --) -- Commiter (Senior Developer) -- Contributor (Developer) -- Developer. I see Sun's Java, implementing specification for Servlet, J2EE, etc..and after the final spec, they create a software, where i cannot find it in Apache.. I see there is several project's proposal in JavaDoc, I think this is not a good solution. isn't it??? But, honestly, the apache project, is more interesting, but harder to implement.. esp for an user that want to use more than 2 project in their application.. I think, if there is a new way of development (may be in Apache), where someone responsible to a tips and trick of beginner guide of a project, there will be hundreds new developer involve with the project, and may be more contributor, and may be more developer.. or something clear track from version to version... Or, may be do you want to keep it, because may be the Open Source Project, or may be Microsoft will steal it... :(, I don't think this is a good.. Because, I cannot find a proposal track that will be implemeted in every project in Apache, but I get it in JBoss, when JBoss want to add JMS feature... Is my brain think good??? I just want to share what i think to all of you.. Feedback is very welcomed. Oke, sorry the email, think postively of this, sorry if there is a negative think of this..I just want to make it clear.. Frans Thamura - Original Message - From: Kevin A. Burton - burtonator [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Comment for Apache.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The list is named [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ok, I suggest the creation of such mailing list and the creation of a Jon page explaining the whole Jon issue... linked from Jakarta's home page, of course. snip Hm... Is Jon becoming the Richard Stallman of the Apache Software Foundation ;) ;) ha. - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Without enlightenment, there is only ignorance. -- famous Zen Koan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8Fw8eAwM6xb2dfE0RArjpAKCOCX495SaPwyj7PAN60PWv58rfUQCgmC3K 5n1ERcHsxeNulR8yvrNjoRc= =LR7V -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto
RE: Comment for Apache.org
-Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [...] The most important thing to remember is that we are all volunteers here, and we are not alone. If you don't want to do something, don't do it. Someone else will step in ... that's what meritocracy is all about. The more you do, the more you are expected to do. The corollary is, the less you do, the more someone else will do instead. Your statements are OK for Apache projects since they are based on volunteer contributions because we all bring our own brick to the building. Unfortunately they are far from being true everywhere. If you know a place where there is no such bad attitude, then please name your company and location so that I can remember it... it's always nice to know :) Stephane -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
Source Project, or may be Microsoft will steal it... :(, I don't think this is a good.. Because, I cannot find a proposal track that will be implemeted in every project in Apache, but I get it in JBoss, when JBoss want to add JMS feature... Is my brain think good??? I just want to share what i think to all of you.. Feedback is very welcomed. Oke, sorry the email, think postively of this, sorry if there is a negative think of this..I just want to make it clear.. Frans Thamura - Original Message - From: Kevin A. Burton - burtonator [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Comment for Apache.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The list is named [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ok, I suggest the creation of such mailing list and the creation of a Jon page explaining the whole Jon issue... linked from Jakarta's home page, of course. snip Hm... Is Jon becoming the Richard Stallman of the Apache Software Foundation ;) ;) ha. - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Without enlightenment, there is only ignorance. -- famous Zen Koan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8Fw8eAwM6xb2dfE0RArjpAKCOCX495SaPwyj7PAN60PWv58rfUQCgmC3K 5n1ERcHsxeNulR8yvrNjoRc= =LR7V -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
I am not working now (a freelance project for web design and implementation), before that I worked at Andersen Business Consulting, as a technical consultant, and quit, because I see almost the Big 5 don't have a vision. Frans Thamura - Original Message - From: Stephane Bailliez [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:35 PM Subject: RE: Comment for Apache.org -Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [...] The most important thing to remember is that we are all volunteers here, and we are not alone. If you don't want to do something, don't do it. Someone else will step in ... that's what meritocracy is all about. The more you do, the more you are expected to do. The corollary is, the less you do, the more someone else will do instead. Your statements are OK for Apache projects since they are based on volunteer contributions because we all bring our own brick to the building. Unfortunately they are far from being true everywhere. If you know a place where there is no such bad attitude, then please name your company and location so that I can remember it... it's always nice to know :) Stephane -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
On 10 Dec 2001, Kevin A. Burton - burtonator wrote: | Give jon a break. With all the hard work he has done he at least deserves the | benefit of the doubt on all these e-mails. What about the times when there is no doubt? When he just behaves totally assholeish? | | When you come close to 1/5th the amount of work he has done for Apache then you | can judge. This is the stuff I just cannot understand. Being a good coder and good committer actually gives you the _right_ to be an a .. not nice to other people on the Jakarta email lists? People that come here for the first time, doing the wrong thing, posting to the wrong list or something, they should only expect to be flogged hard by Jon, right? Because he has earned the right to be rude? I don't get that. You jakarta folks should post this on your website, something like: After serving the Apache and Jakarta community for about 5 years, you earn the right to be an asshole. This not only gives you unlimited possibilities to hurl shit into all Jakarta email lists, but your fellow Jakarta members will even defend your opinions and your new-earned rights to the bitter end. But this time I don't think Jon was that bad, though.. Just a bit rude. Not a complete asshole, as many other times.. -- Mvh, Endre -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
In my opinion, if you haven't contributed anything, then you are just leeching off the hard work of the many individuals behind the Jakarta project What does one's relative standing in the Jakarta project have to do with how you conduct yourself with other project members - or even leeches, for that matter? It's not like anyone here stepped out of the womb with code to contribute. Presumably they were users first, and then became contributors. I have no idea what your past contributions have been, and it isn't relevant. The question is: how much talent have you driven away with your insults? I don't expect anything to change, of course, so I guess the best recourse is to offer a suggestion to your defenders: please, when this happens in the future, contact the original poster immediately and explain things. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Comment for Apache.org
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 4:45 PM When you come close to 1/5th the amount of work he has done for Apache then you can judge. So, if I understand Apache's so-called meritocracy system, the more you do for a project, the more unprofessional and ego-driven behavior you are allowed? So, If Jon doubles his workload, will he then be allowed to murder dissenting listmemebers instead of simply insulting them? :) Paul Tiseo, Intermediate Systems Programmer Birdsall 122, Mayo Clinic Jacksonville 4500 San Pablo Rd, FL, 32224 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- (904) 953-8254 / 953-7134 (fax) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Comment for Apache.org
At 10:32 AM -0500 12/11/01, Tiseo, Paul wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 4:45 PM When you come close to 1/5th the amount of work he has done for Apache then you can judge. So, if I understand Apache's so-called meritocracy system, the more you do for a project, the more unprofessional and ego-driven behavior you are allowed? So, If Jon doubles his workload, will he then be allowed to murder dissenting listmemebers instead of simply insulting them? :) I think at the double workload level, Jon would only be able to club baby seals. Murder is a bit higher up... I've got those charts around here *somewhere*... -- === Jim Jagielski [|] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [|] http://www.jaguNET.com/ A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both and deserve neither -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
On Tuesday, December 11, 2001, at 03:19 PM, lloyd wrote: In my opinion, if you haven't contributed anything, then you are just leeching off the hard work of the many individuals behind the Jakarta project What does one's relative standing in the Jakarta project have to do with how you conduct yourself with other project members - or even leeches, for that matter? It's not like anyone here stepped out of the womb with code to contribute. Presumably they were users first, and then became contributors. jon provides training (in his version) of the way. jon's training methods might be considered harsh by many but they are educational. people contribute in many ways, not just by coding. for example, if you'd answered the original question (before jon had to) then this war would never have started and the original poster would have gone away a little bit happier. instead, you decided to post a personal attack on jon. personal attacks are easy. writing good answers is hard and takes time. I have no idea what your past contributions have been, and it isn't relevant. The question is: how much talent have you driven away with your insults? development at apache is very much in the open. having to take responsibility for your contribution - whether it's code or mail posted to the mailing lists - is very much part of the deal. if you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen. I don't expect anything to change, of course, so I guess the best recourse is to offer a suggestion to your defenders: please, when this happens in the future, contact the original poster immediately and explain things. if you want things to change, then you need to do something about it (am i sounding like jon? ;) if you were to answer newbie questions - to the best of your ability - then jon wouldn't have to make time to answer them. there's something in it for you too, since you'll learn far more by answering questions than you will by lurking. everybody would be a little happier. - robert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
On 12/11/01 10:32 AM, Tiseo, Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 4:45 PM When you come close to 1/5th the amount of work he has done for Apache then you can judge. So, if I understand Apache's so-called meritocracy system, the more you do for a project, the more unprofessional and ego-driven behavior you are allowed? So, If Jon doubles his workload, will he then be allowed to murder dissenting listmemebers instead of simply insulting them? :) That sort of thing would come in handy from time to time... Hmm -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, robert burrell donkin wrote: if you want things to change, then you need to do something about it (am i sounding like jon? ;) if you were to answer newbie questions - to the best of your ability - then jon wouldn't have to make time to answer them. there's something in it for you too, since you'll learn far more by answering questions than you will by lurking. everybody would be a little happier. This version of this same old thread isn't going to accomplish anything. However, as a person who has been around Apache for a long time (including working with Jon directly on Apache JServ), as a person who contributes a lot of code also, and as a person who *does* take the time to do what Robert suggests and answers user questions (striving to do so in a manner that is polite and respectful, and *usually* succeeding at that), I'm going to add one and only one comment. I vastly respect Jon's contributions to Apache -- but I'm disappointed that he doesn't seem to care that his approach to email makes the overall community smaller than it otherwise would be (due to people not being willing to deal with his style). Now, I'm going to go back and start writing some more code (and answering some more user questions). I suggest we all do the same. - robert Craig McClanahan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Comment for Apache.org
I vastly respect Jon's contributions to Apache -- but I'm disappointed that he doesn't seem to care that his approach to email makes the overall community smaller than it otherwise would be (due to people not being willing to deal with his style). Thanks Craig, Sorry Jon, I Agree.. Saludos , Ignacio J. Ortega -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Comment for Apache.org
In my opinion, if you haven't contributed anything, then you are just leeching off the hard work of the many individuals behind the Jakarta project Everybody could disagree with someone but the generally accepted rule is to stay correct with the person. There is many forums on the web to do run such dialogs. Better, I suggest people who want to flam Jon, to do it directly and leave this list a bit more quiet. The list is named [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
On 12/11/01 5:12 PM, GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my opinion, if you haven't contributed anything, then you are just leeching off the hard work of the many individuals behind the Jakarta project Everybody could disagree with someone but the generally accepted rule is to stay correct with the person. There is many forums on the web to do run such dialogs. Better, I suggest people who want to flam Jon, to do it directly and leave this list a bit more quiet. The list is named [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not [EMAIL PROTECTED] How about we set up that list, and use PayPal to collect donations for some worthy cause (chosen by jon, of course) for people that want to publicly flame jon... He's busy these days, so we can all take turns proxying for him, with the caveat that you have to work hard on Jakarta stuff like he does to be a proxy. Anyone with $$ can flame, of course. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Comment for Apache.org
He's busy these days, so we can all take turns proxying for him, with the caveat that you have to work hard on Jakarta stuff like he does to be a proxy. Who are you trying to fool? You would be never able to impersonate him!!! =;o) Paulo P.S.: And I am not talking about working hard. -Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:27 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Comment for Apache.org On 12/11/01 5:12 PM, GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my opinion, if you haven't contributed anything, then you are just leeching off the hard work of the many individuals behind the Jakarta project Everybody could disagree with someone but the generally accepted rule is to stay correct with the person. There is many forums on the web to do run such dialogs. Better, I suggest people who want to flam Jon, to do it directly and leave this list a bit more quiet. The list is named [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not [EMAIL PROTECTED] How about we set up that list, and use PayPal to collect donations for some worthy cause (chosen by jon, of course) for people that want to publicly flame jon... He's busy these days, so we can all take turns proxying for him, with the caveat that you have to work hard on Jakarta stuff like he does to be a proxy. Anyone with $$ can flame, of course. geir -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
- Original Message - From: robert burrell donkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip if you want things to change, then you need to do something about it (am i sounding like jon? ;) if you were to answer newbie questions - to the best of your ability - then jon wouldn't have to make time to answer them. snip Who ever said jon HAD to answer anyone? If he can't answer with some resemblance of a mature adult instead of like a snotty nosed 12yo brat he should just shut the hell up and say nothing. But just like a snotty nosed 12yo brat it seems he doesn't have the mental capacity to help himself and therefore needs to be treated like one. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Comment for Apache.org
-Original Message- From: Frans Thamura [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [...] Is there a team that responsible for managing the projects of apache projects. Like in Apache XML may be there is a team that manage that. I have been working several years in IT, and managing the project. There is a methodology to make a project clear.. I cannot find it in Apache.. [...] It's hard to figure out what you really want to say...but I believe you are looking for this: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/guidelines.html Stephane. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
Wow. It would be really great if you wrote an email that made some logical Having lurked on this list for awhile, I'd say it would be great if you could get through one e-mail exchange without being an asshole. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
lloyd wrote: Wow. It would be really great if you wrote an email that made some logical Having lurked on this list for awhile, I'd say it would be great if you could get through one e-mail exchange without being an asshole. Not again. People, even if you don't like Jon, can we just let this one go please? I don't want to see YAFF (Yet Another Flame Fest) on netiquette. -- They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
It is admittedly not a perfect universe, but I think the Jakarta Universe would be poorer without Jon Stevens in our midst. Some things are a package deal, and Jon seems to be one of them. I sometimes wonder if he is not employing reverse psychology on the rest of it. For example, it was Jon's flames that gave birth to the Commons (like a Phoenix rising from the ashes). He said that saying some of us weren't playing nice with others -- so we set up a playpen. lloyd wrote: Wow. It would be really great if you wrote an email that made some logical Having lurked on this list for awhile, I'd say it would be great if you could get through one e-mail exchange without being an asshole. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
Frans, Jakarta has a Project Management Committee, much the same as XML. We are all run by the Apache Software Foundation, and have the same ground rules. http://apache.org/foundation/roles.html There is a private PMC mailing list, but it is rarely used. Most communication takes place here, on the General List. Like XML, all of the Jakarta products are run as Meritocracies. One committer, one vote. If one committer is busy, any other committer can step in and do whatever is necessary. There is no formal lead for any of our products. At least three committers must approve a formal release before it can be made. Jakarta has been very popular, and there are thousands of people already involved with this. We appreciate your support, and hope you will be able to contribute to one of our products some time. For more about Jakarta, please visit http://jakarta.apache.org/site/whoweare.html http://jakarta.apache.org/site/roles.html http://jakarta.apache.org/site/guidelines.html -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Custom Software ~ Technical Services. -- Tel +1 716 737-3463 -- http://www.husted.com/struts/ Frans Thamura wrote: Dear All,, Do you know where the list for comment the apache.org web site.. Is there a team that responsible for managing the projects of apache projects. Like in Apache XML may be there is a team that manage that. I have been working several years in IT, and managing the project. There is a methodology to make a project clear.. I cannot find it in Apache.. Because as a model of open source development for volunteer.. Apache's project can lost his leader or creator.. may be he is busy, or interest in several project. but as an Apache.. you must responsible for managing this.. sample.. Cocoon is create by Stefano, what happen if he is very very busy.. who must handle this project. And who will responsible for next release.. only stefano or everyone.. who interest.. with VOTE of course.. I love a clear project. and it will easy to understand and follow.. trust me.. there will be thousands people involve with this.. if everyone can understand and use it easily.. Honestly, Apache project is very great.. i love it. Thanks. Frans -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Comment for Apache.org
Yes, Jon could improve the package deal a lot if he wanted (just by cutting the minus side of it) but it does not look like it is going to happen. And I still prefer having him around than the alternative. Just my 2 (Euro) cents. Have fun, Paulo Gaspar -Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:08 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Comment for Apache.org It is admittedly not a perfect universe, but I think the Jakarta Universe would be poorer without Jon Stevens in our midst. Some things are a package deal, and Jon seems to be one of them. I sometimes wonder if he is not employing reverse psychology on the rest of it. For example, it was Jon's flames that gave birth to the Commons (like a Phoenix rising from the ashes). He said that saying some of us weren't playing nice with others -- so we set up a playpen. lloyd wrote: Wow. It would be really great if you wrote an email that made some logical Having lurked on this list for awhile, I'd say it would be great if you could get through one e-mail exchange without being an asshole. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
Ted Husted wrote: I sometimes wonder if he is not employing reverse psychology on the rest of it. For example, it was Jon's flames that gave birth to the Commons (like a Phoenix rising from the ashes). He said that saying some of us weren't playing nice with others -- so we set up a playpen. ...or maybe its the attention he gets from the comments that provoke his defense... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
On 12/10/01 9:08 AM, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is admittedly not a perfect universe, but I think the Jakarta Universe would be poorer without Jon Stevens in our midst. Some things are a package deal, and Jon seems to be one of them. I sometimes wonder if he is not employing reverse psychology on the rest of it. For example, it was Jon's flames that gave birth to the Commons (like a Phoenix rising from the ashes). He said that saying some of us weren't playing nice with others -- so we set up a playpen. Weeell Not exactly sure about that... :) lloyd wrote: Wow. It would be really great if you wrote an email that made some logical Having lurked on this list for awhile, I'd say it would be great if you could get through one e-mail exchange without being an asshole. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Be a giant. Take giant steps. Do giant things... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wow. It would be really great if you wrote an email that made some logical Having lurked on this list for awhile, I'd say it would be great if you could get through one e-mail exchange without being an asshole. Give jon a break. With all the hard work he has done he at least deserves the benefit of the doubt on all these e-mails. When you come close to 1/5th the amount of work he has done for Apache then you can judge. I have no problem with you expressing your viewpoint but calling jon an *sshole was over the top. If you don't like it, unsubscribe. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ A Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer is to computing what a McDonalds Certified Food Specialist is to fine cuisine. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8FSyFAwM6xb2dfE0RAp8iAKCbEpLGQ52WbHE9poEt+eECgpAbRACgw7A3 VIbWAD3QMgVuHh2lIv5oVfQ= =Fdvt -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
Nope!!! jon is a complete ASSHOLE! If YAFF happens it is jon's fault! Put the responsibility where it belongs... on jon. It's him that keeps creating these commotions needlessly. - Original Message - From: Berin Loritsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:28 AM Subject: Re: Comment for Apache.org lloyd wrote: Wow. It would be really great if you wrote an email that made some logical Having lurked on this list for awhile, I'd say it would be great if you could get through one e-mail exchange without being an asshole. Not again. People, even if you don't like Jon, can we just let this one go please? I don't want to see YAFF (Yet Another Flame Fest) on netiquette. -- They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
on 12/10/01 4:43 PM, Scott Tavares [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope!!! jon is a complete ASSHOLE! If YAFF happens it is jon's fault! Put the responsibility where it belongs... on jon. It's him that keeps creating these commotions needlessly. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon.html p.s. Scott, I love you too. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
- Original Message - From: Jon Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:08 PM Subject: Re: Comment for Apache.org on 12/10/01 4:43 PM, Scott Tavares [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope!!! jon is a complete ASSHOLE! If YAFF happens it is jon's fault! Put the responsibility where it belongs... on jon. It's him that keeps creating these commotions needlessly. ttp://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon.html p.s. Scott, I love you too. -jon Yes jon, I know how much you love me. My reply to the link is this: Why should I contribute anything if all i'm going to get is insulted for my efforts? You also know that I haven't contributed to the Jakarta project in close to three years now because you insulted me one too many times. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
on 12/10/01 6:14 PM, Scott Tavares [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You also know that I haven't contributed to the Jakarta project in close to three years now because you insulted me one too many times. Lame excuse. Life is full of people you may not like. If you use that as your excuse for not participating in things, then you might as well not leave your house either. The Jakarta project also isn't just me, there are more than enough projects here that I don't participate in at all and since this is a Meritocracy founded around the developers, your voice (and complaints) do not have any weight unless you actually contribute something. People need to realize that this is not a democracy. In my opinion, if you haven't contributed anything, then you are just leeching off the hard work of the many individuals behind the Jakarta project and using emails from me that you may not like as your excuse. I find that far more offensive than anything I could flame you about. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
- Original Message - From: Berin Loritsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] lloyd wrote: Wow. It would be really great if you wrote an email that made some logical Having lurked on this list for awhile, I'd say it would be great if you could get through one e-mail exchange without being an asshole. Not again. People, even if you don't like Jon, can we just let this one go please? I don't want to see YAFF (Yet Another Flame Fest) on netiquette. Never mind, if people want to flame with jon, just go for it. But at the end of the day, they will learn *a lot* ;-) I'd seen this before, in jserv, tomcat-dev and now general list, people had flamed with jon and still stayed in the list is now getting more mature(and so does jon), and still willing to contribute to the community with their technical excellence. I got this impression is that a few months ago, while jon was on a flame with another guy, one contributor/committer humorously stated jon was still a pain in the *ss. That contributor/committer had a endless flame with jon before (may be almost a year before?). But at that moment, I felt that the two guys seems to have certain respect with each other ;-) And I would say, seeing a true story like this, it was a great joy. Punky -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Comment for Apache.org
Wow. It would be really great if you wrote an email that made some logical sense. -jon on 12/9/01 3:57 AM, Frans Thamura [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All,, Do you know where the list for comment the apache.org web site.. Is there a team that responsible for managing the projects of apache projects. Like in Apache XML may be there is a team that manage that. I have been working several years in IT, and managing the project. There is a methodology to make a project clear.. I cannot find it in Apache.. Because as a model of open source development for volunteer.. Apache's project can lost his leader or creator.. may be he is busy, or interest in several project. but as an Apache.. you must responsible for managing this.. sample.. Cocoon is create by Stefano, what happen if he is very very busy.. who must handle this project. And who will responsible for next release.. only stefano or everyone.. who interest.. with VOTE of course.. I love a clear project. and it will easy to understand and follow.. trust me.. there will be thousands people involve with this.. if everyone can understand and use it easily.. Honestly, Apache project is very great.. i love it. Thanks. Frans -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
