Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Peter Donald wrote: Unless you plan on adding similar comments for a few other projects I would suggest you remove the commons advertising Why? Should the reference to Turbine be removed from http://jakarta.apache.org/site/source.html ? Do you have a proposed patch? Something you would like to add? Guys, I can understand why some of you may not want to participate in other activities, but this is no excuse for attempting to block the progress of others. - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:18, Sam Ruby wrote: Peter Donald wrote: Unless you plan on adding similar comments for a few other projects I would suggest you remove the commons advertising Why? Should the reference to Turbine be removed from http://jakarta.apache.org/site/source.html ? Do you have a proposed patch? Something you would like to add? Um ... here is the section I am talking about Jakarta can host a product within a top-level subproject, or as a component in the Jakarta Commons. This document covers what is expected of a proposal for a top-level Jakarta subproject. The Jakarta Commons has a similar but different procedure for accepting new products. See the Jakarta Commons site for details. Is this something you think is needed and should be in the jakarta guidelines? Guys, I can understand why some of you may not want to participate in other activities, but this is no excuse for attempting to block the progress of others. hmm - exactly how am I blocking the progress of commons? I have wanted to do something very similar to commons for ages - hell way before JDD even proposed AUT which was way before commons was proposed. And if you recall I was somewhat active in early library-dev discussions, no? Do you disagree with anything here? Have I ever blocked anybody moving anything to commons? Yes I would love to particpate in commons but I probably wont because I consider the management process of it broken. Consider this - how many committers are there in commons atm - 10, 20, 30 ? Now to get a new project moved you need a 3/4 vote - lets be generous and say about 12 votes! That seems real likely. Then you have the joy that every commons committer has voting rights on everything - even code they have never contributed and never will - sounds like a great meritocracy - right? M, just the sort of thing we are meant to be promoting. So yes theres buckets of stuff in ant, in excalibur and at home that I would love to move to commons but that aint going to happen till its fixed or if ever. Considering you seem to be accusing me of blocking progress in commons I want you to explain it in real simple terms how I am doing it? I seem to be a bit think and can't quite figure it out. -- Cheers, Pete Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
For the time being, I've removed the sentence about the Commons from the working draft. Though, since both Jakarta and Commons have procedures for accepting new products, it would seem polite to steer anyone interested in donating a codebase to Jakarta to both places. After all, many proposals have been met by the response, Why not propose this to the Commons or try it in the sandbox. If another subproject were to publish guidelines for proposing a new product, as the Commons does, then I agree we should cite that subproject here too. It's also important to note that the advertisement was originally put in by Jon Stevens, not any of the Commons committers. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ Peter Donald wrote: On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:18, Sam Ruby wrote: Peter Donald wrote: Unless you plan on adding similar comments for a few other projects I would suggest you remove the commons advertising Why? Should the reference to Turbine be removed from http://jakarta.apache.org/site/source.html ? Do you have a proposed patch? Something you would like to add? Um ... here is the section I am talking about Jakarta can host a product within a top-level subproject, or as a component in the Jakarta Commons. This document covers what is expected of a proposal for a top-level Jakarta subproject. The Jakarta Commons has a similar but different procedure for accepting new products. See the Jakarta Commons site for details. Is this something you think is needed and should be in the jakarta guidelines? Guys, I can understand why some of you may not want to participate in other activities, but this is no excuse for attempting to block the progress of others. hmm - exactly how am I blocking the progress of commons? I have wanted to do something very similar to commons for ages - hell way before JDD even proposed AUT which was way before commons was proposed. And if you recall I was somewhat active in early library-dev discussions, no? Do you disagree with anything here? Have I ever blocked anybody moving anything to commons? Yes I would love to particpate in commons but I probably wont because I consider the management process of it broken. Consider this - how many committers are there in commons atm - 10, 20, 30 ? Now to get a new project moved you need a 3/4 vote - lets be generous and say about 12 votes! That seems real likely. Then you have the joy that every commons committer has voting rights on everything - even code they have never contributed and never will - sounds like a great meritocracy - right? M, just the sort of thing we are meant to be promoting. So yes theres buckets of stuff in ant, in excalibur and at home that I would love to move to commons but that aint going to happen till its fixed or if ever. Considering you seem to be accusing me of blocking progress in commons I want you to explain it in real simple terms how I am doing it? I seem to be a bit think and can't quite figure it out. -- Cheers, Pete Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
For the archive - this was peter responding to Sam. On 1/13/02 8:45 AM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have I ever blocked anybody moving anything to commons? Yes I would love to particpate in commons but I probably wont because I consider the management process of it broken. Consider this - how many committers are there in commons atm - 10, 20, 30 ? Now to get a new project moved you need a 3/4 vote - lets be generous and say about 12 votes! That seems real likely. And we are looking at changing that we recognize that is starting to become a hurdle. Things change. Things evolve. We learn. Then you have the joy that every commons committer has voting rights on everything - even code they have never contributed and never will - sounds like a great meritocracy - right? M, just the sort of thing we are meant to be promoting. I also agree - I am uncomfortable with that, and have been from day one. To be fair though, it hasn't resulted in any huge problems yet. I do think that having all the commons committers be involved with things like deciding what can be a commons component is a good thing and should be preserved (with the modification of the 3/4ths rule - the idea should be they *can* participate - not must...). Having all in every issue doesn't seem to scale. So yes theres buckets of stuff in ant, in excalibur and at home that I would love to move to commons but that aint going to happen till its fixed or if ever. Considering you seem to be accusing me of blocking progress in commons I want you to explain it in real simple terms how I am doing it? I seem to be a bit think and can't quite figure it out. -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting He who throws mud only loses ground. - Fat Albert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:05, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Consider this - how many committers are there in commons atm - 10, 20, 30 ? Now to get a new project moved you need a 3/4 vote - lets be generous and say about 12 votes! That seems real likely. And we are looking at changing that we recognize that is starting to become a hurdle. Things change. Things evolve. We learn. kool. Then you have the joy that every commons committer has voting rights on everything - even code they have never contributed and never will - sounds like a great meritocracy - right? M, just the sort of thing we are meant to be promoting. I also agree - I am uncomfortable with that, and have been from day one. To be fair though, it hasn't resulted in any huge problems yet. It never does until the first problem - when this changes and this evolves you will have another active developer. Wanna propose a vote on commons? Technically I believe am a committer and could even +1 it :) -- Cheers, Pete Frank Zappa observed: It's not getting any smarter out there.You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
+1 There is now a Subproject Alternatives section citing Taglibs, Avalon, Commons, Turbine, XML, et al. http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject2.html Peter Donald wrote: Unless you plan on adding similar comments for a few other projects. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Come over and vote on it now. It has been proposed and has about 7 +1s so far... Scott -Original Message- From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 6:14 AM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:05, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Consider this - how many committers are there in commons atm - 10, 20, 30 ? Now to get a new project moved you need a 3/4 vote - lets be generous and say about 12 votes! That seems real likely. And we are looking at changing that we recognize that is starting to become a hurdle. Things change. Things evolve. We learn. kool. Then you have the joy that every commons committer has voting rights on everything - even code they have never contributed and never will - sounds like a great meritocracy - right? M, just the sort of thing we are meant to be promoting. I also agree - I am uncomfortable with that, and have been from day one. To be fair though, it hasn't resulted in any huge problems yet. It never does until the first problem - when this changes and this evolves you will have another active developer. Wanna propose a vote on commons? Technically I believe am a committer and could even +1 it :) -- Cheers, Pete Frank Zappa observed: It's not getting any smarter out there.You have to come to terms with stupidity, and make it work for you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Hi Ted, kool work. The only thing I don't like so far is the heading Warning signs. I would rename it into Rejecting Reasons or Not wanted or something else. The PMC is very strict in that way and therefore the heading should be more, well, brutal ;-). Hmm and maybe we can rename Criteria in Quality Reasons because this Criterias are the reason why Apache project from that quality. Just my to 0,02 EURO Cent Cheers Gerhard When I die, I want to go just like my Grandfather, in my sleep. Not like the screaming passengers in the car he was driving. (Ancient Chinese Proverb) -Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 11:55 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage SHORT TERM PLAN There's a proposed redraft of the Subproject Proposals page at http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject2.html It's mainly a refactoring, adding subheadings, and so forth, and relies on the content of the original page http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html which is linked from the Guidelines Notes section. -Ted. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:54, Ted Husted wrote: There's a proposed redraft of the Subproject Proposals page at http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject2.html It's mainly a refactoring, adding subheadings, and so forth, and relies on the content of the original page http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html which is linked from the Guidelines Notes section. Unless you plan on adding similar comments for a few other projects I would suggest you remove the commons advertising -- Cheers, Pete - I think not; therefore I ain't... - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
SHORT TERM PLAN I was thinking of adding a section to the start page, after the Jakarta subproject index, to mention our friends at XML. Something like this: == Apache XML Project Many people who visit Jakarta also find the products of the Apache XML Project to be of interest. Products hosted at Apache XML include: AXIS - An implementation of the SOAP (Simple Object Access Protocol) submission to W3C. Batik - A Java based toolkit for Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG). Cocoon - XML-based web publishing, in Java. Crimson - A Java XML parser derived from the Sun Project XParser. FOP - XSL formatting objects, in Java. SOAP - Simple Object Access Protocol. Xalan - XSLT stylesheet processors, in Java and C++. Xang - Rapid development of dynamic server pages, in JavaScript. Xerces - XML parsers in Java, C++ (with Perl and COMbindings). Xindice - A native XML database. XML-RPC - A Java implementation of XML-RPC, a popular protocol that uses XML over HTTP to implement remote procedure calls. XML Security - Create and verify arbitrary forms of XML Signatures. For more about any of these products, visit the Apache XML Project. == I'd leave out links to the individual XML subprojects, so that vistors would go to the XML start page first, and proceed from there. Shane (our XML lurker) -- Does that seem OK to you? -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On 1/11/02 7:14 AM, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SHORT TERM PLAN I was thinking of adding a section to the start page, after the Jakarta subproject index, to mention our friends at XML. Something like this: Why limit just to XML-land (we have friends in many places), and what's the long term plan? == Apache XML Project Many people who visit Jakarta also find the products of the Apache XML Project to be of interest. Products hosted at Apache XML include: AXIS - An implementation of the SOAP (Simple Object Access Protocol) submission to W3C. Batik - A Java based toolkit for Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG). Cocoon - XML-based web publishing, in Java. Crimson - A Java XML parser derived from the Sun Project XParser. FOP - XSL formatting objects, in Java. SOAP - Simple Object Access Protocol. Xalan - XSLT stylesheet processors, in Java and C++. Xang - Rapid development of dynamic server pages, in JavaScript. Xerces - XML parsers in Java, C++ (with Perl and COMbindings). Xindice - A native XML database. XML-RPC - A Java implementation of XML-RPC, a popular protocol that uses XML over HTTP to implement remote procedure calls. XML Security - Create and verify arbitrary forms of XML Signatures. For more about any of these products, visit the Apache XML Project. == I'd leave out links to the individual XML subprojects, so that vistors would go to the XML start page first, and proceed from there. Shane (our XML lurker) -- Does that seem OK to you? -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Hi, From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On 1/11/02 7:14 AM, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SHORT TERM PLAN I was thinking of adding a section to the start page, after the Jakarta subproject index, to mention our friends at XML. Something like this: Why limit just to XML-land (we have friends in many places), and what's the long term plan? Putting that all to the jakarta side screams for a re-design! Because in the current it would be too much I guess. How about a little table on the left with a navi pagerelated links avaloncontent project description - xml - sourceforge skip/ gerhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage
From: Gerhard Froehlich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Hi, From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On 1/11/02 7:14 AM, Ted Husted [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SHORT TERM PLAN I was thinking of adding a section to the start page, after the Jakarta subproject index, to mention our friends at XML. Something like this: Why limit just to XML-land (we have friends in many places), and what's the long term plan? Putting that all to the jakarta side screams for a re-design! Because in the current it would be too much I guess. How about a little table on the left with a on the _right_ of course. need a coffee! gerhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:29, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: I also will say I haven't seen community crosstalk between XML and Jakarta, from the point of view as communities. I know there are individuals who contribute greatly to both communities, and many of us here in Jakarta depend on XML projects. But in the sense of us really having discussion of cross-community issues, the only one I can recall seeing is Stefano's request to disband PMCs because of his issues with XML's. You would be surprised. The majority of avalon developers are from XML land for one. Other projects have more or less communication - but thats not really different from inter-jakarta projects. -- Cheers, Pete *--* The phrase computer literate user really means the person has been hurt so many times that the scar tissue is thick enough so he no longer feels the pain. -- Alan Cooper, The Inmates are Running the Asylum *--* -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Peter Donald wrote: Watchdog is TC specific - didn't know that ? Is it servlet/jsp specific or tomcat specific? Could it be reimplemented over the top of Cactus or is it tied to a specific infrastructure? Watchdog is not Tomcat-specific - the validity tests should work on any container that implements the appropriate servlet and JSP specifications. It's based on the same tests that are in the J2EE compliance test suite (CTS). Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On 1/7/02 12:53 AM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:39, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category? different technologies (ie c vs java). So what? You didn't think that mattered before. what are you talking about ? When have I said merging incompatible communities never mattered ? Good try. You said that the technologies don't matter (you even say it above :) Sigh .. I need some of those Cheshire cat skills. The point I was trying to get across was this. I assumed you were being facetious ? no? In some ways, no - I think it was stefano that said something to the order of removing all artificial containers surrounding projects or groups of projects. I think that if we looked at that, we might discover that governance of something like that would be challenging (governance could be entirely self-governance : no implications of any sort intended...) I don't really care that tomcat has a native connector and daemon architecture, nor do I care whether xerces has a c version. Why ? Because they are the same community. Presumably you don't think Pier is not part of the tomcat project - yet he did write a c daemon architecture (and some of the connectors?) - does that mean his work should not be part of jakarta ? No - this paragraph above reaches back to my unanswered questions about the real meaning of the charter, of which a clarification was suggested which you agreed to (removing server), but then I noted we would still be out of scope (beaause of java). I don't care about the tech either - I mean, much of Gump is XSL, right? I was being a bit facetious earlier on the Alexandria list - note that The Law specifies that all code be documented according to javadoc coding conventions. If Sam wishes to remain in compliance with the law, his XSL Gump code needs to be documented that way (which I don't believe possible). My point is that the constant appeal to codified law sometimes misses the spirit of the law, and allows it to be used as a club, which I don't like. I admit it is my personality to err on the side of 'chaos' away from the law, but still. The PHP/Perl/TCL/Httpd people on average have little involvement in the java development scene is my guess - I certainly haven't seen any huge crosstalk between them and jakarta - have you ? Never. I also will say I haven't seen community crosstalk between XML and Jakarta, from the point of view as communities. I know there are individuals who contribute greatly to both communities, and many of us here in Jakarta depend on XML projects. But in the sense of us really having discussion of cross-community issues, the only one I can recall seeing is Stefano's request to disband PMCs because of his issues with XML's. Because they work on different technologies there is unlikely to emerge any great collaborative works between developers as often developers specialize in development approach (ie java). Technologies don't matter - communitys do. I agree - I think my statement was Charter doesn't matter - the community does... It would be pointless to merge disconnected communities when there is no community incentive to do so. The community is unlikely to form between groups of developers who work on different technologies if there is little common ground. xerces c developers presumably have common ground with their java counterparts, Pier presumably has common ground with the other tomcat developers. -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
In futherance of the work begun the other day, I broke the subproject list into three general categories, to increase readability. Libraries, Tools, and APIs Frameworks and Engines Server Applications I based the initial categories and placements on how the subprojects described themselves. This is the other thing people visiting the site are forever asking the webmaster to do. -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Lazy consensus. If anyone doesn't like it, they can change it :) Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Cool. I am assuming that you will ask each project where they belong? :) -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:10, Sam Ruby wrote: Shouldn't... Velocity and Jasper be in the same category? Watchdog and Tomcat be in the same category? Jmeter and Cactus be in the same category? Lucene and Oro be in the same category? Shouldn't JMeter and Watchdog be in the same category? Shouldn't Avalon and Log4j be in the same category? Shouldn't Avalon and Commons be in the same category? Shouldn't Avalon and Tomcat be in the same category? Shouldn't Turbine and Commons be in the same category? Shouldn't Cactus and JMeter be in the same category? Shouldn't Cactus and Watchdog be in the same category? ;) -- Cheers, Pete The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit. -- Maugham -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Sam Ruby wrote: My two cents: these categories are not perfect, but are useful. Not unlike the Apache Projects =:) -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:49, Sam Ruby wrote: Peter Donald wrote: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:10, Sam Ruby wrote: Shouldn't... Velocity and Jasper be in the same category? Watchdog and Tomcat be in the same category? Jmeter and Cactus be in the same category? Lucene and Oro be in the same category? Shouldn't JMeter and Watchdog be in the same category? JMeter is general purpose. Watchdog effectively is Tomcat specific. Watchdog is TC specific - didn't know that ? Is it servlet/jsp specific or tomcat specific? Could it be reimplemented over the top of Cactus or is it tied to a specific infrastructure? Shouldn't Avalon and Log4j be in the same category? Shouldn't Avalon and Commons be in the same category? Shouldn't Avalon and Tomcat be in the same category? Obviously, Avalon is everything. ;-) But first and foremost, people tend to think of it as a framework. And that happens to be the smallest part of the Avalon project ;) Shouldn't Turbine and Commons be in the same category? Ditto. I would love to see torque be given more presence then, *cough* top-level-project *cough* :) Shouldn't Cactus and JMeter be in the same category? You got me there. ;-) Hint: intentional cheshire cat lurking in that statement. Shouldn't Cactus and Watchdog be in the same category? Same response as the first. = = = My two cents: these categories are not perfect, but are useful. yep. It may be useful to break down the turbine and avalon projects into their constituent parts though, then again not all of those parts are out of alpha ;) -- Cheers, Pete --- I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. --- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On 1/6/02 2:21 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:10, Sam Ruby wrote: Shouldn't... Velocity and Jasper be in the same category? Watchdog and Tomcat be in the same category? Jmeter and Cactus be in the same category? Lucene and Oro be in the same category? Shouldn't JMeter and Watchdog be in the same category? Shouldn't Avalon and Log4j be in the same category? Shouldn't Avalon and Commons be in the same category? Shouldn't Avalon and Tomcat be in the same category? Shouldn't Turbine and Commons be in the same category? Shouldn't Cactus and JMeter be in the same category? Shouldn't Cactus and Watchdog be in the same category? Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category? Shouldn't Cocoon and PHP be in the same category? Shouldn't APR and Commons and Avalon be in the same category? Shouldn't TCL and Perl be in the same category? -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Be a giant. Take giant steps. Do giant things... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 07:27, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category? different technologies (ie c vs java). Shouldn't Cocoon and PHP be in the same category? different technologies (ie c vs java) Shouldn't APR and Commons and Avalon be in the same category? Commons + Avalon = yes APR is different technology Shouldn't TCL and Perl be in the same category? No idea what they actually consist of but I suspect the communities are not compatible ;) Apache is generally broken by technology boundaries. While sometimes there is overlap (ie xerces-c xerces-j) but it is mostly the case that committers stick to one technology - except for some oddballs like Sam ;) - and thus thats where the community is. Occasionally you will some people bridge between different technology (ie PHP in cocoon, connectors in TC, ...) but that is the exception rather than the norm. -- Cheers, Pete --- Remember, your body is a temple; however, it's also your dancehall and bowling alley -- Dharma Montgomery --- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On 1/6/02 3:54 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 07:27, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category? different technologies (ie c vs java). So what? You didn't think that mattered before. Shouldn't Cocoon and PHP be in the same category? different technologies (ie c vs java) So what? You didn't think that mattered before. Shouldn't APR and Commons and Avalon be in the same category? Commons + Avalon = yes APR is different technology So what? You didn't think that mattered before. Shouldn't TCL and Perl be in the same category? No idea what they actually consist of but I suspect the communities are not compatible ;) Apache is generally broken by technology boundaries. While sometimes there is overlap (ie xerces-c xerces-j) but it is mostly the case that committers stick to one technology - except for some oddballs like Sam ;) - and thus thats where the community is. Occasionally you will some people bridge between different technology (ie PHP in cocoon, connectors in TC, ...) but that is the exception rather than the norm. -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting He who throws mud only loses ground. - Fat Albert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On 1/6/02 5:26 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:05, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On 1/6/02 3:54 PM, Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 07:27, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category? different technologies (ie c vs java). So what? You didn't think that mattered before. what are you talking about ? When have I said merging incompatible communities never mattered ? Good try. You said that the technologies don't matter (you even say it above :) -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.apache.org/foundation/projects.html I'm nobody at ASF but I am on this mailling list. I think it's my first post (or near). I just wanna say: Jon, It's a really good job! -- Arnaud, STE-Formations Informatiques, fapse, ULg, .BE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Gerhard Froehlich wrote: Nope. No karma for the Jakarta Site, only for the Avalon project. Your turn ;-). I did post an update this morning, but there apparently a problem with anoncvs that's preventing me from copying the changes over to the main site. -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
On 1/3/02 9:02 AM, Gerhard Froehlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, following idea for the jakarta startpage: how about adding a short description of each jakarta subproject on the startpage. something like that: TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT NAV Lucene: NAV A java based text search enginge. NAV ORO: A set off... because now you have to click in every subproject to find out what they are doing. with this proposal it would be much easier to find the correct subproject Good idea. We were going to do that at one point. Maybe we'll ask each newsletter contributor to make up a *one* sentence blurb and do it that way. -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
What I've been meaning to do is set this up using the descriptions from Bugzilla, but never seem to get round to it. http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On 1/3/02 9:02 AM, Gerhard Froehlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, following idea for the jakarta startpage: how about adding a short description of each jakarta subproject on the startpage. something like that: TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT NAV Lucene: NAV A java based text search enginge. NAV ORO: A set off... because now you have to click in every subproject to find out what they are doing. with this proposal it would be much easier to find the correct subproject Good idea. We were going to do that at one point. Maybe we'll ask each newsletter contributor to make up a *one* sentence blurb and do it that way. -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
If everyone thinks the Bugzilla page descriptions are a reasonable starting point, I'll do it. People are forever asking for this in the Webmaster box, and it will save me the trouble of replying. I also need to put one of Jon's gatekeeper pages in front of the Webmaster link, to induce people to send mail to the User list first. -Ted. Vincent Massol wrote: Good idea. Here is the blurb for Cactus : A test framework for unit testing server-side java code. Thanks for volunteering Gerhard ;-) -Vincent -Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 03 January 2002 14:15 To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage On 1/3/02 9:02 AM, Gerhard Froehlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, following idea for the jakarta startpage: how about adding a short description of each jakarta subproject on the startpage. something like that: TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT NAV Lucene: NAV A java based text search enginge. NAV ORO: A set off... because now you have to click in every subproject to find out what they are doing. with this proposal it would be much easier to find the correct subproject Good idea. We were going to do that at one point. Maybe we'll ask each newsletter contributor to make up a *one* sentence blurb and do it that way. -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech. - Benjamin Franklin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage
-Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 3:45 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage If everyone thinks the Bugzilla page descriptions are a reasonable starting point, I'll do it. People are forever asking for this in the Webmaster box, and it will save me the trouble of replying. I also need to put one of Jon's gatekeeper pages in front of the Webmaster link, to induce people to send mail to the User list first. -Ted. If it's complete go for it, I would say. Gerhard skip/ -- Black holes were created when God divided by zero. -- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Here is yet another solution to this problem... http://www.apache.org/foundation/projects.html Once again, I already did 99% of the work. If you guys would like to help keep it up to date and maybe link it from the Jakarta homepage (or copy the data from there), then that would be great. I don't have the energy to do everything anymore. Sigh. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Hi, From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Here is yet another solution to this problem... http://www.apache.org/foundation/projects.html Once again, I already did 99% of the work. If you guys would like to help keep it up to date and maybe link it from the Jakarta homepage (or copy the data from there), then that would be great. I don't have the energy to do everything anymore. Ok. Ted you or I?? Sigh. Understandable Gerhard - Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no. - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Hi, -Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 7:49 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage If you already have the karma, Gerhard, go ahead. Otherwise, I can. Nope. No karma for the Jakarta Site, only for the Avalon project. Your turn ;-). Though, for consistency, I'd paste in the descriptions from Bugzilla, which is a more complete list. Agree If anyone else has karma to the ASF site, we should also update the projects page, http://www.apache.org/foundation/projects.html and include the latest products like Lucene and Cactus. Gerhard PS: Can somebody explain me, why the my mails are send twice to this list since today? I've nobody in CC! -Ted. Gerhard Froehlich wrote: Hi, From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Here is yet another solution to this problem... http://www.apache.org/foundation/projects.html Once again, I already did 99% of the work. If you guys would like to help keep it up to date and maybe link it from the Jakarta homepage (or copy the data from there), then that would be great. I don't have the energy to do everything anymore. Ok. Ted you or I?? Sigh. Understandable Gerhard - Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no. - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
Gerhard Froehlich wrote: PS: Can somebody explain me, why the my mails are send twice to this list since today? I've nobody in CC! The same thing is happening to me. I've been thinking my mail filters had gone hay-write. We're apparently getting two copies of our own mails back. -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA. -- Building Java web applications with Struts. -- Tel +1 585 737-3463. -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
