[gentoo-dev] Lastrites: app-cdr/cdrw-base
# Samuli Suominen [EMAIL PROTECTED] (20 Jul 2007) # Orphaned configuration files using devfsd. # Masked for treecleaners. Removed in 60 days. # Bug 64138. app-cdr/cdrw-base -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] qmail.eclass draft
Hello Benedikt
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 01:37:11PM +0200, Benedikt Boehm wrote:
It is basically netqmail split into much smaller chunks so they can be
reused by other qmail variants as well.
Okay, I looked through it and found some things which need
reconsideration. I agree that user creation and such things can be
easily done in an eclass. However, functions like qmail_src_unpack
should be done in the ebuild. Putting them in an eclass and just doing
if (a) { … } else if (b) { … } makes it harder to understand and
unneccessarily complicated. qmail_base_install should be split in
smaller functions, maybe with callbacks (if possible in bash). In the
end the ebuild shouldn't contain any package-specific code. Can you look
into it again?
Greets,
Michael
--
http://hansmi.ch/
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: net-im/pidgin protocols
Eric Polino wrote: If this is truly a problem, then I think the negative USE flags might be the better solution then. This would allow users the ability to disable potential insecure features. But really, I doubt security is an issue here. The negative (or no*) USE flags are generally considered a bad thing. They're icky. -- Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/ Gentoo Linux Developer Catalyst/Installer + x86 release coordinator -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving developer/user communication (was Re: net-im/pidgin protocols)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Roy Marples wrote: On Thu, 2007-07-19 at 23:11 +0100, George Prowse wrote: Mike Doty wrote: [snip] get this shit off the dev list and somewhere more appropriate. I have a question for in here. Now this is (rightly) going to -project, are any devs actually going to comment on the discussion? The ones that are actually interested in this will. I don't want to start a long discussion here, and if you reply to this please do so on -project. I would post this there only but I think I'll miss my target audience - which is devs who aren't interested in - -project material and want -dev to be a technical list. If you are a dev who wants to see only technical commentary on this list please do yourself a favor and DON'T reply on this list to non-technical issues. If somebody feels like they get 2 replies on -project and 50 replies on -dev (even if it is just telling them to buzz off) they're going to post on -dev as the perceived impact is higher. Just ignore stuff like this on -dev, and post replies on -project. And for those among you who aren't devs and would like to be able to participate on -dev in realtime without moderation, participating in these sorts of discussions on -dev isn't the way to accomplish your goals. Let's give -project a chance, shall we... And again, I apologize for cross-posting this on dev. Please feel free to tell me to buzz off, but for everybody else's sake do so by private email... :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGoL11G4/rWKZmVWkRAlOvAJ4kG3bZdIiRZaYH8xdECcTpDfcSzwCZARS1 2bwGlp9/RNP/Ar0G8Sb5JWU= =6rOM -END PGP SIGNATURE- smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: net-im/pidgin protocols
On 7/20/07, Andrew Gaffney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric Polino wrote: If this is truly a problem, then I think the negative USE flags might be the better solution then. This would allow users the ability to disable potential insecure features. But really, I doubt security is an issue here. The negative (or no*) USE flags are generally considered a bad thing. They're icky. I know and understand that. Though we still have to consider them as a possible solution to this problem. -- Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/ Gentoo Linux Developer Catalyst/Installer + x86 release coordinator -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- http://aluink.blogspot.com -- ...indexable arrays, which may be thought of as functions whose domains are isomorphic to contiguous subsets of the integers. --Haskell 98 Library Report -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: net-im/pidgin protocols
Duncan wrote: joshua jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:10:35 -0700: Honestly..this is not something to get picky over jakub. Upstream was nice and actually came and politely asked us to change the defaults to what most people would consider sane (all protocols by default). As I think most people emerging pidgin..would like to use any protocol by default..not go..hey I don't have yahoo, I should check my use flags. Which obviously hasn't happened as users pop up in #pidgin to ask why the heck there isn't a yahoo account available. [Dev-discussion, so kept posted here.] I've not seen this question come up yet, so I'll raise it. Shouldn't the question really depend on whether optional dependencies are pulled in by the protocols or not? If everything's pidgin internal, then if upstream wants all the protocols on as shipped, I think that's the sane thing to do. OTOH, if enabling those protocols pulls in all sorts of additional packages to support them, shipping with everything on just because it's possible is not the Gentoo way. That's what USE flags are for. If indeed additional dependencies are pulled in, IMO the USE flags should remain, and maybe someone needs to explain the Gentoo way to upstream. ++; from a user. I prefer to leave them off. However I can understand the other sides point of view, too. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving developer/user communication (was Re: net-im/pidgin protocols)
George Prowse schrieb: Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:45:46 -0500 Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Any user who will see and respond to a question is unrepresentative of the user base in general. So if ten users reply then, are all ten individually wrong too? Not my point. My point is that most Gentoo users would either not see the question or not respond. Those that both see the question and take time to respond are highly atypical. If you were clever enough and wanted the largest amount of answers you would put the questions around ever communication channel gentoo has, you would then get the opinions of the majority of users. No In best case you get answers from a larger part of that part of the user community that a) actively follow those information channels, b) want to contribute answers and probably c) have enough technical skill to express what they want to say in a useful way (not like 'bla doesn't work, fix that') and some will stay silent because they are to shy or alike. Even if you manage to get approx 10-20% of valid answer rate over all channels this still is far from beeing representative. A relevant part of the user base is surely completely 'invisible'- no matter which channels we use to publicate infos/polls/etc to. Anyways this is more of philosophical/social issue to discuss about than a technical one. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: net-im/pidgin protocols
fire-eyes wrote: Duncan wrote: OTOH, if enabling those protocols pulls in all sorts of additional packages to support them, shipping with everything on just because it's possible is not the Gentoo way. That's what USE flags are for. If indeed additional dependencies are pulled in, IMO the USE flags should remain, and maybe someone needs to explain the Gentoo way to upstream. ++; from a user. I prefer to leave them off. However I can understand the other sides point of view, too. I believe one of the main philosophies of Gentoo is to try to have an app be as close to upstream as possible. I personally believe that this means the we should try to enable enough USE flags by default that it is roughly equivalent to running upstream's './configure' with no arguments. USE flags then give the advanced user the ability to disable those features normally on, or enable those features normally off, but we want a freshly installed package by default to just work[1] and to be as close to upstream as possible[2]. With this in mind, enabling most of the default protocols makes sense to me. [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?part=3chap=1#doc_chap1 [2] looking for actual references to this, but couldn't find it... I think it's _somewhere_ in the required new-developer reading... -- Jim Ramsay Gentoo/Linux Developer (rox,gkrellm) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving developer/user communication (was Re: net-im/pidgin protocols)
Thomas Scharl wrote: George Prowse schrieb: Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:45:46 -0500 Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ciaran McCreesh wrote: Any user who will see and respond to a question is unrepresentative of the user base in general. So if ten users reply then, are all ten individually wrong too? Not my point. My point is that most Gentoo users would either not see the question or not respond. Those that both see the question and take time to respond are highly atypical. If you were clever enough and wanted the largest amount of answers you would put the questions around ever communication channel gentoo has, you would then get the opinions of the majority of users. No In best case you get answers from a larger part of that part of the user community that a) actively follow those information channels, b) want to contribute answers and probably c) have enough technical skill to express what they want to say in a useful way (not like 'bla doesn't work, fix that') and some will stay silent because they are to shy or alike. Even if you manage to get approx 10-20% of valid answer rate over all channels this still is far from beeing representative. A relevant part of the user base is surely completely 'invisible'- no matter which channels we use to publicate infos/polls/etc to. Anyways this is more of philosophical/social issue to discuss about than a technical one. a) The people who don't actively follow the communication channels wouldn't know what was going on so they would never notice! Du... b) If people don't want to contribute in them then it is up to them. People can't complain if they are given the option. c) You don't need lots of technical skills to help. To be honest, that is immaterial anyway, there is a huge wealth of knowlege in the forums community (that is unused by Gentoo) and there are always people who would explain something in plain language. George -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jan Kundrát wrote: I'd also like to nominate mcummings (he's an old guy in Gentoo land and his mails look reasonable), lack (he's a bit fresher, but his mails are good) and kumba (old guy, nice mails). XML has been updated. Cheers, -jkt In the vein of being reasonable, I will respectfully decline (but thank you :). I'm having a hard enough time balancing all that I have on my plate now, and with my router flaking my ssh connections home this last week, even less opportunity to be online. I appreciate the nomination (especially so out of the blue), and wish the Council nominees the best of luck. - -- - -o()o-- Michael Cummings |#gentoo-dev, #gentoo-perl Gentoo Perl Dev|on irc.freenode.net Gentoo/SPARC Gentoo/AMD64 GPG: 0543 6FA3 5F82 3A76 3BF7 8323 AB5C ED4E 9E7F 4E2E - -o()o-- Hi, I'm a .signature virus! Please copy me in your ~/.signature. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGoPgWq1ztTp5/Ti4RApXoAJ4mIsjsnOuKhEKthVmT9tGGTFAhzgCePiTv lUSHyhzlBt12Bdykp1npY7o= =JaDt -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007/08
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Blackace wrote: I'd like to nominate: vapier tsunam nightmorph seemant avenj christel Although most of them will probably decline, I think they would do an excellent job straightening out Gentoo's heading and have the barnacles to perform the requisite keelhauling. Thanks, Blackace. -- !DSPAM:468e8e97303331804284693! I'm declining as well. Not sure if everyone got the message elsewhere so... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGoPly2ZWR0Jhg/EsRAgulAJ0Tnyy2BnfL3f/yhW57QDxI60gS8gCeNkNz 5iCiWuArvnGBVZBqXiKImv8= =KYqB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: net-im/pidgin protocols
It would seem there is a good support for a change to enable all protocols by default. What will change this issue from a good thread to an action on the package to implement these ideas? Another suggestion brought to me by an upstream dev was that Pidgin is configured to install all protocols by default. If the required libraries for a protocol is missing, ie: gadu, zephyr, silc, bonjour, then Pidgin builds/runs fine and that protocol isn't available for the user to use. Not wanting to alienate those who use these protocols, but they aren't very common to begin with, so this will only apply to a small sample of users. So a warning could be put in the ewarn saying that if you want there protos you have to install their required libs. I don't think this is a bad idea. I've seen a few packages do that before. This way we don't pull in unwanted dependencies. This could be coupled with the idea of negative USE flags, though nasty and unwanted, I think like someone mentioned a bit earlier, they stand out and are more effective when it comes to this type of situation involving defaults. Summary: 1. Switch all USE flags to negative USE flags. 2. Don't install deps for protocols (maybe still install SSL) 3. Put a message in the ewarn about missing libs for extra protos. Once again, how does this thread move to action on the package? Can I call Question? ;) Thanks, Eric On 7/20/07, Jim Ramsay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: fire-eyes wrote: Duncan wrote: OTOH, if enabling those protocols pulls in all sorts of additional packages to support them, shipping with everything on just because it's possible is not the Gentoo way. That's what USE flags are for. If indeed additional dependencies are pulled in, IMO the USE flags should remain, and maybe someone needs to explain the Gentoo way to upstream. ++; from a user. I prefer to leave them off. However I can understand the other sides point of view, too. I believe one of the main philosophies of Gentoo is to try to have an app be as close to upstream as possible. I personally believe that this means the we should try to enable enough USE flags by default that it is roughly equivalent to running upstream's './configure' with no arguments. USE flags then give the advanced user the ability to disable those features normally on, or enable those features normally off, but we want a freshly installed package by default to just work[1] and to be as close to upstream as possible[2]. With this in mind, enabling most of the default protocols makes sense to me. [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?part=3chap=1#doc_chap1 [2] looking for actual references to this, but couldn't find it... I think it's _somewhere_ in the required new-developer reading... -- Jim Ramsay Gentoo/Linux Developer (rox,gkrellm) -- http://aluink.blogspot.com -- ...indexable arrays, which may be thought of as functions whose domains are isomorphic to contiguous subsets of the integers. --Haskell 98 Library Report -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Getting -project started
Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:17:58 -0700: On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 09:15:31PM -0500, lnxg33k wrote: Ryan Hill wrote: These are on gmane now as well. -dev-announce as RO and -project as RW. They should have turned up on archives as well, but don't seem to have yet. I'm subscribed to the gmane groups and haven't seen anything there yet either, despite the fact that at least one message I xposted, should be on both dev and project, and I see others referencing posting to project but don't see anything on it on gmane at all. Is anybody subscribed by mail getting stuff on project yet? If neither gmane or gentoo's archives are showing anything... -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Getting -project started
Duncan wrote: Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:17:58 -0700: On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 09:15:31PM -0500, lnxg33k wrote: Ryan Hill wrote: These are on gmane now as well. -dev-announce as RO and -project as RW. They should have turned up on archives as well, but don't seem to have yet. I'm subscribed to the gmane groups and haven't seen anything there yet either, despite the fact that at least one message I xposted, should be on both dev and project, and I see others referencing posting to project but don't see anything on it on gmane at all. Is anybody subscribed by mail getting stuff on project yet? If neither gmane or gentoo's archives are showing anything... I am -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Getting -project started
Duncan wrote: Is anybody subscribed by mail getting stuff on project yet? If neither gmane or gentoo's archives are showing anything... I've received two mails (I believe that's all) after subscribing sometime wednesday. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: net-im/pidgin protocols
On 7/20/07, Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:20:06 -0400 Eric Polino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would seem there is a good support for a change to enable all protocols by default. What will change this issue from a good thread to an action on the package to implement these ideas? File a bug on bugs.gentoo.org about the issue. TBH, this shouldn't have been on the list in the first place, as it's directly targeted at the respective package maintainers, not the dev community in general. My apology, I will do so in the future. Marius -- Public Key at http://www.genone.de/info/gpg-key.pub In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bit better. -- http://aluink.blogspot.com -- ...indexable arrays, which may be thought of as functions whose domains are isomorphic to contiguous subsets of the integers. --Haskell 98 Library Report -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Getting -project started
Duncan wrote: Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:17:58 -0700: On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 09:15:31PM -0500, lnxg33k wrote: Ryan Hill wrote: These are on gmane now as well. -dev-announce as RO and -project as RW. They should have turned up on archives as well, but don't seem to have yet. I'm subscribed to the gmane groups and haven't seen anything there yet either, despite the fact that at least one message I xposted, should be on both dev and project, and I see others referencing posting to project but don't see anything on it on gmane at all. Is anybody subscribed by mail getting stuff on project yet? If neither gmane or gentoo's archives are showing anything... I had to send the confirmation email twice then it started sending me emails. WE may have caught it before we should have and something didn't take. May want to dig out the confirm email and send it one more time. I am getting post to -project so it is working. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-dev] have any developers subscribed to -project?
Do any devs subscribe to -project because no replies have yet to be heard from developers... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] have any developers subscribed to -project?
On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 20:58 +0100, George Prowse wrote: Do any devs subscribe to -project because no replies have yet to be heard from developers... Please stop flooding my inbox. -- Ned Ludd [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gentoo Linux -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] qmail.eclass draft
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:52:02 +0200
Michael Hanselmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello Benedikt
On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 01:37:11PM +0200, Benedikt Boehm wrote:
It is basically netqmail split into much smaller chunks so they can
be reused by other qmail variants as well.
Okay, I looked through it and found some things which need
reconsideration. I agree that user creation and such things can be
easily done in an eclass. However, functions like qmail_src_unpack
should be done in the ebuild. Putting them in an eclass and just doing
if (a) { … } else if (b) { … } makes it harder to understand and
unneccessarily complicated.
I absolutely agree here, it is just too ugly.
qmail_base_install should be split in
smaller functions, maybe with callbacks (if possible in bash).
There is now qmail_mini_install (called by every qmail ebuild) and
qmail_{full,man,sendmail}_install for the rest of a full blown install.
I'm not sure what you mean with callbacks here, maybe you can
elaborate?
In the
end the ebuild shouldn't contain any package-specific code. Can you
look into it again?
The qmail_*_install changes are already in my overlay, i will look into
removing the unpack stuff from the eclass together with some
DEPEND/IUSE cleanups to get rid of qmail_mini() tomorrow.
HTH,
Bene
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] have any developers subscribed to -project?
++ On 7/20/07, Ned Ludd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 20:58 +0100, George Prowse wrote: Do any devs subscribe to -project because no replies have yet to be heard from developers... Please stop flooding my inbox. -- Ned Ludd [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gentoo Linux -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list -- Ioannis Aslanidis deathwing00[at]gentoo.org 0xB9B11F4E -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] have any developers subscribed to -project?
Ned Ludd wrote: On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 20:58 +0100, George Prowse wrote: Do any devs subscribe to -project because no replies have yet to be heard from developers... Please stop flooding my inbox. It is an honest developer question because it was meant to have discussions between developers there and if no developers subscribe then what is the point of having it? You might as well just close it now -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: have any developers subscribed to -project?
George Prowse [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:58:23 +0100: Do any devs subscribe to -project because no replies have yet to be heard from developers... It's likely some subscriptions are caught in limbo. See my question on the Getting -project started thread. A reply said he had to confirm twice, and neither gmane nor the Gentoo archive appear to be getting posts to it. So anyone (devs or users) that has subscribed and isn't getting anything, please re-confirm. I'm going to ask gmane to do so as well. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] have any developers subscribed to -project?
George Prowse wrote: Ned Ludd wrote: On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 20:58 +0100, George Prowse wrote: Do any devs subscribe to -project because no replies have yet to be heard from developers... Please stop flooding my inbox. It is an honest developer question because it was meant to have discussions between developers there and if no developers subscribe then what is the point of having it? You might as well just close it now Just because only 1 person (a non-developer) replied to your e-mail (and I quote): Well, i'm not sure if this list is working because I have not yet recieved any emails from it but... What ideas do people have for improving relations? Does not mean no developers are subscribed. Maybe some are and maybe they don't have any ideas or maybe they do and they're just keeping quiet. Is there ABSOLUTELY ANY POINT TO THIS THREAD THAT YOU CREATED? OR ANY POINT TO YOUR FOLLOW UP E-MAIL?! Reply to me off list if you care to reply, because I know not a single person on the list cares to see this thread get any larger or your reply. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] have any developers subscribed to -project?
George Prowse schrieb: Do any devs subscribe to -project because no replies have yet to be heard from developers... sure -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] have any developers subscribed to -project?
George Prowse wrote: Ned Ludd wrote: On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 20:58 +0100, George Prowse wrote: Do any devs subscribe to -project because no replies have yet to be heard from developers... Please stop flooding my inbox. It is an honest developer question because it was meant to have discussions between developers there and if no developers subscribe then what is the point of having it? You might as well just close it now I agree. They complain about us coming here for their input but they won't come to where we are so we can get theirs. I posted this on -project and I'm going to post it here. This is my answer to people being rude and disrespectful to us users. I'm making a list of the people that say things they shouldn't, just like a post here from kingtaco a day or so ago. People on that list will NOT be voted in for anything by me and there may be others that will follow this list. I'll make sure it is public and may even post the reason/post for the addition to the list. So, if you want to continue acting the way some few are, that's fine, but I have in the past few days decided to grow a pair and will make sure every one knows my opinion. I feel it is time for a change with regard to a few people that give everybody else and Gentoo a bad PR. This is my little contribution to Gentoo. Dale :-) :-) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] have any developers subscribed to -project?
Dale napsal(a): George Prowse wrote: Ned Ludd wrote: On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 20:58 +0100, George Prowse wrote: Do any devs subscribe to -project because no replies have yet to be heard from developers... Please stop flooding my inbox. It is an honest developer question because it was meant to have discussions between developers there and if no developers subscribe then what is the point of having it? You might as well just close it now I agree. They complain about us coming here for their input but they won't come to where we are so we can get theirs. _ _ _ _ _ | | | |/ ___| | | | | | | | | | _| |_| | | | |_| | |_| | _ |_| \___/ \|_| |_(_) Stop flooding my mailbox as well with this irrelevant junk finally, it's totally off-topic here; if you want to complain that noone loves you, then go to your nanny, I'm not interested. -- Best regards, Jakub Moc mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG signature: http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xCEBA3D9E Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95 B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E ... still no signature ;) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] have any developers subscribed to -project?
Dale wrote: George Prowse wrote: Ned Ludd wrote: On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 20:58 +0100, George Prowse wrote: Do any devs subscribe to -project because no replies have yet to be heard from developers... Please stop flooding my inbox. It is an honest developer question because it was meant to have discussions between developers there and if no developers subscribe then what is the point of having it? You might as well just close it now I agree. They complain about us coming here for their input but they won't come to where we are so we can get theirs. I posted this on -project and I'm going to post it here. This is my answer to people being rude and disrespectful to us users. I'm making a list of the people that say things they shouldn't, just like a post here from kingtaco a day or so ago. People on that list will NOT be voted in for anything by me and there may be others that will follow this list. I'll make sure it is public and may even post the reason/post for the addition to the list. So, if you want to continue acting the way some few are, that's fine, but I have in the past few days decided to grow a pair and will make sure every one knows my opinion. I feel it is time for a change with regard to a few people that give everybody else and Gentoo a bad PR. This is my little contribution to Gentoo. Dale :-) :-) No, we complain about non-technical posts showing up here... and guess what is... please take it to -project if it isn't technical. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] qmail.eclass draft
On Fri, Jul 20, 2007 at 10:05:23PM +0200, Benedikt Boehm wrote:
qmail_base_install should be split in smaller functions, maybe with
callbacks (if possible in bash).
There is now qmail_mini_install (called by every qmail ebuild) and
qmail_{full,man,sendmail}_install for the rest of a full blown install.
I'm not sure what you mean with callbacks here, maybe you can
elaborate?
If we have a common part which cannot, due to whatever reason, be split
into several functions, but we've to do something package specific in
between, we need callbacks. Just a sample (might not work at all, I'm
not that much into eclasses):
foo.eclass:
foo_src_install() {
# Some prefix code
# …
package_specific_code
# Some postfix code
# …
}
foo-simple.ebuild:
src_install() { foo_src_install }
package_specific_code() {
# code for foo-simple
}
foo-adv.ebuild:
src_install() { foo_src_install }
package_specific_code() {
# code for foo-adv
}
The qmail_*_install changes are already in my overlay,
How can I get it using SVN? Looking at the site for more than a minute
shouldn't be required to find it.
Btw.: you didn't correct your blog posting to show the actual facts.
Thanks,
Michael
--
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Re: [gentoo-dev] have any developers subscribed to -project?
Dale wrote: George Prowse wrote: Ned Ludd wrote: On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 20:58 +0100, George Prowse wrote: Do any devs subscribe to -project because no replies have yet to be heard from developers... Please stop flooding my inbox. It is an honest developer question because it was meant to have discussions between developers there and if no developers subscribe then what is the point of having it? You might as well just close it now I agree. They complain about us coming here for their input but they won't come to where we are so we can get theirs. I posted this on -project and I'm going to post it here. This is my answer to people being rude and disrespectful to us users. I'm making a list of the people that say things they shouldn't, just like a post here from kingtaco a day or so ago. People on that list will NOT be voted in for anything by me and there may be others that will follow this list. I'll make sure it is public and may even post the reason/post for the addition to the list. So, if you want to continue acting the way some few are, that's fine, but I have in the past few days decided to grow a pair and will make sure every one knows my opinion. I feel it is time for a change with regard to a few people that give everybody else and Gentoo a bad PR. This is my little contribution to Gentoo. Dale :-) :-) Thanks for the shout out. You should know that because you continue to waste megabytes of our bandwidth and countless man hours for everyone who reads you dribble, you've now made my kill file. This means I won't be voting for you in all non existent votes that don't matter in the slightest. Most importantly, thank you for showing why moderation of lists is important and useful. In case you're too clueless to understand my sarcasm, get this shit off the list and somewhere appropriate. /dev/null would be a good start. When there are topics devs are interested in on -project then they will join and participate. You complaining isn't something anyone other than yourself is interested in. Hugs and Kisses, --taco -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: net-im/pidgin protocols
On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 00:02 -0400, Eric Polino wrote: Someone mentioned just killing the USE flags and making them all hard dependencies, however. I really hope that's not done if additional dependencies are involved. I see your point, but how different would this be to any application that requires dependencies and you can't change the fact that they require them. For instance, any application that uses GTK+ requires GTK+ and there's nothing you can do about it. I don't care how much you strip down Firefox, you'll still need GTK+. The Pidgin team sells their application as having all these protocols so they should be there, at least out of the box. Why is it configurable, at all, then? If the pidgin team wants these protocols enabled by everyone, why make them optional? I fully agree that the *defaults* should be sane, but if upstream doesn't want people turning these things off, why give people a switch? It's like putting out a big shiny red button that says don't press me then complaining when people press it. ;P Anyway, if nobody objects and nobody beats me to it, I'll add the USE flags for the common protocols to package.use in the profiles. Now, the real question is what should I enable? -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving developer/user communication (was Re: net-im/pidgin protocols)
On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 18:54 +0200, Thomas Scharl wrote: Anyways this is more of philosophical/social issue to discuss about than a technical one. One thing that I had been considering bringing up and getting help with is some scripts/whatever to get users to do things they might not know they can do during installation. For example, let's say we've got a little script, called sub_to_gwn, which takes a single argument, an email address. At the end of the Installer, we can ask Would you like to subscribe to the Gentoo Weekly Newsletter? and subscribe people that say yes. We could do the same thing for a stats client, or any other projects that we deemed would be useful. The idea here is to present some of these things that we would like the users to be doing to provide us feedback (and disseminate information) to the user when they're installing. Of course, we'd also add the scripts into the documentation, so people can simply run them w/o the Installer, so we're not tying this stuff to Installer-only installs. Anyway, some things I think we could/should do are: - GWN - gentoo-announce - gentoo-stats (or whatever we have now, if anything) Anything else? -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] net-im/pidgin protocols
On Fri, 2007-20-07 at 00:57 +0100, Olivier Crête wrote: On Thu, 2007-19-07 at 15:22 -0700, Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Thu, 2007-07-19 at 16:02 -0600, Jim Ramsay wrote: I'm all for doing it now in the profile, but it's not my package. Perhaps someone from the net-im herd can make this decision? Well, as someone who spends a lot of time working on/with profiles, I say go for it. Since these changes would only affect the one package and wouldn't pull in any strange dependencies on people, we should probably do it as high in the profile structure as possible (base? default-linux?) so it hits the most users. I'd like to hear from net-im, as they're ultimately responsible, but I don't really see the harm in doing it, so we probably should as it will reduce headaches for our users. Talking with my net-im hat, I'd say go for it.. Except for silc and zephyr (which may or may not work very well) and should probably stay off. Again with my net-im hat, I've removed the MSN use flag from net-im/pidgin-2.0.2 (the latest version). The other protocols are rarely used and have nasty dependencies and will stay as use flags. I consider this discussion closed. -- Olivier Crête [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gentoo Developer signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: net-im/pidgin protocols
On Fri, 2007-20-07 at 14:40 -0700, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Anyway, if nobody objects and nobody beats me to it, I'll add the USE flags for the common protocols to package.use in the profiles. Now, the real question is what should I enable? All of the ones that have no major dependencies are enabled by default and have been for a while... The other should really stay off by default. I don't think adding it them to the profiles is wise.. -- Olivier Crête [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gentoo Developer signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Stats
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:48:12 -0700 Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, some things I think we could/should do are: - GWN - gentoo-announce - gentoo-stats (or whatever we have now, if anything) Smolt, which is Fedora's new hardware-profiling program, is actively porting to other distributions. We could probably join in the fun there pretty easily, since it seems our own stats are on hiatus. Anyone interested? Thanks, Donnie signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving developer/user communication (was Re: net-im/pidgin protocols)
On Friday, 20. July 2007 23:48, Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 18:54 +0200, Thomas Scharl wrote: Anyways this is more of philosophical/social issue to discuss about than a technical one. One thing that I had been considering bringing up and getting help with is some scripts/whatever to get users to do things they might not know they can do during installation. For example, let's say we've got a little script, called sub_to_gwn, which takes a single argument, an email address. At the end of the Installer, we can ask Would you like to subscribe to the Gentoo Weekly Newsletter? and subscribe people that say yes. We could do the same thing for a stats client, or any other projects that we deemed would be useful. The idea here is to present some of these things that we would like the users to be doing to provide us feedback (and disseminate information) to the user when they're installing. Of course, we'd also add the scripts into the documentation, so people can simply run them w/o the Installer, so we're not tying this stuff to Installer-only installs. Anyway, some things I think we could/should do are: - GWN - gentoo-announce - gentoo-stats (or whatever we have now, if anything) Anything else? I don't know whether that is what you mean by gentoo-stats, but other distros have quite some interesting usage statistics by having their users submit hardware profiles to a server. I like the idea and wanted to have a look at Smolt [1]. The Fedora people would be interested in providing the client for Gentoo and would extend the web interface to enable better filtering of distros, too. But right now that's just some random ideas until after my exams next weeks :-) Robert [1] https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/smolt/ , http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/stats -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Improving developer/user communication (was Re: net-im/pidgin protocols)
Chris Gianelloni schrieb: On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 18:54 +0200, Thomas Scharl wrote: Anyways this is more of philosophical/social issue to discuss about than a technical one. One thing that I had been considering bringing up and getting help with is some scripts/whatever to get users to do things they might not know they can do during installation. For example, let's say we've got a little script, called sub_to_gwn, which takes a single argument, an email address. At the end of the Installer, we can ask Would you like to subscribe to the Gentoo Weekly Newsletter? and subscribe people that say yes. We could do the same thing for a stats client, or any other projects that we deemed would be useful. The idea here is to present some of these things that we would like the users to be doing to provide us feedback (and disseminate information) to the user when they're installing. Of course, we'd also add the scripts into the documentation, so people can simply run them w/o the Installer, so we're not tying this stuff to Installer-only installs. Anyway, some things I think we could/should do are: - GWN - gentoo-announce - gentoo-stats (or whatever we have now, if anything) Anything else? quite cool idea, some more optionals could be - subscribe to -user/lang ML's - install a bookmarks file in ~/ with all relevant Gentoo links - create accounts for b.g.o/f.g.o -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] New lists and their usage
OK. I'm sure this will probably bring upon a ton of responses, but let's hope they all stay on-topic. I'm not posting this to gentoo-project since I think it belongs here until this is agreed upon. So, let's get started: gentoo-dev: This list is for technical discussion, primarily between developers, about development and development-related issues that directly affect the tree or current projects. For now, no changes are made to this list. gentoo-dev-announce: This is the announcement list for development-related stuff. Now, there's two ideas for how to run the list, that I can think of, but I'm sure there's others. - Make the list set reply-to to gentoo-dev and automatically copy any messages from this list to gentoo-dev... - Make the list *not* set *any* reply-to, nor strip it, and allow people to use the list to announce development-related stuff from *any* list... For example, if I'm about to start a discussion on possible changes to the releases, I could send a message to gentoo-dev-announce, which will start the thread, with gentoo-releng set as the reply-to. I would be responsible for making sure the email was also sent to gentoo-releng myself. gentoo-projects: This list is for... what exactly? I've not really figured that one out just yet. I know it is supposed to be pretty much anything that doesn't fit into gentoo-dev or another project-specific list. Am I correct here? Is this what everyone thinks this list is supposed to be used for? Anyway, I'd like for us to come up with an agreement on the usage of these lists so we can put them into the policies and start using them that way. Remember that there hasn't been consensus (yet) on the usage of the lists, so we need to do that as soon as possible. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: net-im/pidgin protocols
On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 22:57 +0100, Olivier Crête wrote: On Fri, 2007-20-07 at 14:40 -0700, Chris Gianelloni wrote: Anyway, if nobody objects and nobody beats me to it, I'll add the USE flags for the common protocols to package.use in the profiles. Now, the real question is what should I enable? All of the ones that have no major dependencies are enabled by default and have been for a while... The other should really stay off by default. I don't think adding it them to the profiles is wise.. Cool. We're all done, then. Thanks. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Stats
On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 14:56 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote: On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:48:12 -0700 Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, some things I think we could/should do are: - GWN - gentoo-announce - gentoo-stats (or whatever we have now, if anything) Smolt, which is Fedora's new hardware-profiling program, is actively porting to other distributions. We could probably join in the fun there pretty easily, since it seems our own stats are on hiatus. Anyone interested? I could have sworn genone was working on something stats-related. We should see where he's at before trying to pick up something new, but if smolt (or anything else) is better, I say we go for it. My point is that I'd like to start doing some of these things, if not by 2007.1 then by 2008.0, which will help make things simpler for our users and also give us more feedback on our user base. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] New lists and their usage
On 7/20/07, Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: gentoo-projects: This list is for... what exactly? I've not really figured that one out just yet. I know it is supposed to be pretty much anything that doesn't fit into gentoo-dev or another project-specific list. Am I correct here? Is this what everyone thinks this list is supposed to be used for? From what I can tell by reading the logs of the council meeting [1], the purpose of -project is to keep all the flamewars and bitching off the -dev list. However, it seems that moderating -dev should accomplish that purpose, so I question the need for its existence. If it is not required reading for developers, how is it substantively different from -user? [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20070614.txt -- Nathan Smith Gentoo/PowerPC AT [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New lists and their usage
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:20:24 -0700 Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: gentoo-dev-announce: This is the announcement list for development-related stuff. Now, there's two ideas for how to run the list, that I can think of, but I'm sure there's others. - Make the list set reply-to to gentoo-dev and automatically copy any messages from this list to gentoo-dev... The auto-copy should probably be kept regardless of what we do with Reply-To. - Make the list *not* set *any* reply-to, nor strip it, and allow people to use the list to announce development-related stuff from *any* list... For example, if I'm about to start a discussion on possible changes to the releases, I could send a message to gentoo-dev-announce, which will start the thread, with gentoo-releng set as the reply-to. I would be responsible for making sure the email was also sent to gentoo-releng myself. Hm, I hadn't thought about that but I like it. I like it a lot. It's so sexy! Thanks, Donnie signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Stats
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:29:10 -0700 Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I could have sworn genone was working on something stats-related. He was. I asked him about it a while ago and that's where I got the hiatus bit. 00:30 @dberkholz genone__: anything ever happen with the stats app? 01:09 @genone dberkholz: got to the test stage, then got frustrated with a few aspects that didn't work, worked on other things, and then infra wanted the testserver back. 01:11 @dberkholz genone: so what's the status now? 01:12 @genone dberkholz, right now it's dormant 01:12 @dberkholz genone: a good candidate for that projects page? =) 01:13 @genone dberkholz, I don't have a problem if anyone wants to take it, if that's your question Thanks, Donnie signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: New lists and their usage
Nathan Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:53:02 -0700: On 7/20/07, Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: gentoo-projects: This list is for... what exactly? I've not really figured that one out just yet. I know it is supposed to be pretty much anything that doesn't fit into gentoo-dev or another project-specific list. Am I correct here? Is this what everyone thinks this list is supposed to be used for? From what I can tell by reading the logs of the council meeting [1], the purpose of -project is to keep all the flamewars and bitching off the -dev list. However, it seems that moderating -dev should accomplish that purpose, so I question the need for its existence. If it is not required reading for developers, how is it substantively different from -user? [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20070614.txt Hopefully, dev won't end up needing moderated after all, after project is up and running well, and the outgoing council decides to take a pass on it at their last (August) meeting, both to let that happen, and to let the new council make that decision. project will ideally reduce dev traffic by half, possibly more, if people can self-moderate, thus hopefully eliminating the need for moderation. Given the controversial aspect, if self-moderation can work, it'd be better to keep it to that. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: New lists and their usage
Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:20:24 -0700: gentoo-dev: This list is for technical discussion, primarily between developers, about development and development-related issues that directly affect the tree or current projects. For now, no changes are made to this list. ++ gentoo-dev-announce: This is the announcement list for development-related stuff. Now, there's two ideas for how to run the list, that I can think of, but I'm sure there's others. - Make the list set reply-to to gentoo-dev and automatically copy any messages from this list to gentoo-dev... - Make the list *not* set *any* reply-to, nor strip it, and allow people to use the list to announce development-related stuff from *any* list... For example, if I'm about to start a discussion on possible changes to the releases, I could send a message to gentoo-dev-announce, which will start the thread, with gentoo-releng set as the reply-to. I would be responsible for making sure the email was also sent to gentoo-releng myself. The latter would be nice if it would work. It might if it's restricted to dev posts, but the former may be necessary. gentoo-projects: This list is for... what exactly? I've not really figured that one out just yet. I know it is supposed to be pretty much anything that doesn't fit into gentoo-dev or another project-specific list. Am I correct here? Is this what everyone thinks this list is supposed to be used for? My take is that if it's gentoo devel but not tech in nature, it goes there by default. The short term rule of thumb could then be post it there if in doubt whether it goes here or there, and if it's posted here and any dev complains, it goes there, regardless. (Once the current subscription snafus get worked out, I'd hope by Monday or Tuesday at the latest.) By way of example, your original thread starter could have been xposted here and there, with replies sent there, until a decision had been made. Once a decision was reached, it would be posted to announce and here and there, all three, but the pre-decision discussion would have been there save the initial xposted thread starter, keeping this list spam-free for those that aren't interested. Two posts here, the original question and decision announcement, likely 10 posts, maybe 100 or more if it's controversial there, kept off this list. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New lists and their usage
Chris Gianelloni wrote: gentoo-projects: This list is for... what exactly? I've not really figured that one out just yet. I know it is supposed to be pretty much anything that doesn't fit into gentoo-dev or another project-specific list. Am I correct here? Is this what everyone thinks this list is supposed to be used for? I figured my explanation in Bug #181368 was enough to get the idea across, in that, anything non-technical goes here. Loosely translated, and based on my understanding from a debian developer on what winds up on their debian-project list, it pretty much means everything else. Whether that's what really becomes of the list, I dunno. That's part of the fun for me. I guess what I current envision is it becoming what -dev is today, minus all the technical discussions. --Kumba -- Gentoo/MIPS Team Lead Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere. --Elrond -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] have any developers subscribed to -project?
Jakub Moc wrote: _ _ _ _ _ | | | |/ ___| | | | | | | | | | _| |_| | | | |_| | |_| | _ |_| \___/ \|_| |_(_) Stop flooding my mailbox as well with this irrelevant junk finally, it's totally off-topic here; if you want to complain that noone loves you, then go to your nanny, I'm not interested. Steev Klimaszewski wrote: No, we complain about non-technical posts showing up here... and guess what is... please take it to -project if it isn't technical. Mike Doty wrote: In case you're too clueless to understand my sarcasm, get this shit off the list and somewhere appropriate. /dev/null would be a good start. When there are topics devs are interested in on -project then they will join and participate. You complaining isn't something anyone other than yourself is interested in. Guys, this is unnecessary. He asked a legitimate questions, even if it *was* offtopic. The -project list was created only a few days ago. We've had -dev for years. Changes are not going to happen overnight, or even in a week. It'll take some time, and require some education on our part to point people (devs and users alike) to the right lists. Yelling at them, or otherwise cursing (even if it was sarcasm) is not gonna get the job done. Let's try to be cordial about it, k? Besides, I saw this neat little blurb looking at debian's ML CoC: * Do not use foul language; besides, some people receive the lists via packet radio, where swearing is illegal. * Try not to flame; it is not polite. So yeah, stop swearing before the authorities come after us for swearing over packet radio! :P --Kumba -- Gentoo/MIPS Team Lead Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere. --Elrond -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
