[gentoo-dev] Re: News item: World file handling changes in Portage-2.2
Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Wed, 10 Sep 2008 03:43:11 +0200: Maybe the best solution is to drop the non-prefixed versions of 'world' and 'system' completely Now that's an idea. It /would/ avoid the confusion, since the new concept would come with a new name, without the legacy meaning associated with it to confuse people. What I'd really prefer would be a legacy message much like what portage is currently spitting out for the output module (that I see every time I run esearch, or the old earch) if people use world, telling them to use @system and @world instead... for 2.2 at least. Do the same for system but of course @system is a direct parallel there. Then for 2.3 or whatever, remove both world and system legacies and force the @ versions. However, as I believe I said earlier in the thread, I'm quite aware I'm not the one implementing it, so whatever you go with I'll happily use, regardless of whether it's what I would have thought best, or not. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master. Richard Stallman
[gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for September
This is your one-day friendly reminder ! The monthly Gentoo Council meeting is tomorrow in #gentoo-council on irc.freenode.net. See the channel topic for the exact time (but it's probably 2000 UTC). If you're supposed to show up, please show up. If you're not supposed to show up, then show up anyways and watch your Council monkeys dance for you. For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
[gentoo-dev] Last rites: www-apps/bugport
Hi, www-apps/xrms will be removed for security reasons in 30 days. See bug #235060 ( http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=235060). Gunnar -- Gunnar WrobelGentoo Developer __C_o_n_t_a_c_t__ Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.gunnarwrobel.de IRC: #gentoo-web at freenode.org _ This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: News item: World file handling changes in Portage-2.2
Marius Mauch wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 01:43:45 +0100 Steve Long [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marius Mauch wrote: Second for the suggestions on how to handle the transition: - treating 'world' and '@world' differently is a no go from my POV. One of the main reasons to implement them as sets was to remove special case code in emerge, so I'm quite opposed to adding new special cases instead. And I'm quite sure that such a separation would cause confusion, and some isues regarding (end-user) documentation. We're talking about one special case in the command-line processing, to support the existing usage that all our users are used to. It adds practically nothing in execution time, simply expanding to @system @world, and means that users who don't want to know about sets, or are not thinking in set terms at the time of using emerge, will get the result they expect. It also means we'd indefinitely have to carry another special case around for legacy reasons (removing it later would be even more painful than doing the switch now). You know, those are the things we want to get rid off, as they really make our life harder in the long run. YOu may consider it trivial in this cse, but these things always look trivial when you're adding them, and you curse about them when you have to modify the code later on. I know exactly what you mean. However, this special case *will* save Gentoo a great deal of support hassle, imo at least, and is confined to the option-parsing code. It's perfectly well encapsulated and will never `leak' into any of your dependency resolution or set-handling code. Maybe the best solution is to drop the non-prefixed versions of 'world' and 'system' completely I'm fine with system ;) although as outlined, I don't see that it can add maintenance to anywhere but the option parser, and only then if what you want the end-user to update by default changes. I see that indirection as an added bonus, since it means you can easily maintain a cli api for end-users (or tired admins) as opposed to power-users or devs, and the sets [or indeed options] used can change over time (since we're discussing long-term maintenance) without the same switchover hassles as now. There'd be zero need to reeducate the end-users, and interested ones would be following dev, or would read about any new set in GMN.
[gentoo-dev] Re: Last rites: www-apps/bugport
Gunnar Wrobel wrobel at gentoo.org writes: Hi, www-apps/xrms sorry, meant www-apps/bugport as stated in the subject
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: News item: World file handling changes in Portage-2.2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marius Mauch wrote: Maybe the best solution is to drop the non-prefixed versions of 'world' and 'system' completely Deprecating the old syntax sounds like a sensible action to get people shifted onto the new system. I imagine it would work very similarly to emerge info at the moment? Speaking of which, when will that actually get removed (and does anyone know how long it's been hanging around)? Mike 5:) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkjHo78ACgkQu7rWomwgFXp5aQCdEmxjiguMc1qAszRPKE4dleYo VgoAnRuug4Or0kYPZgA3GylvPClkN5LK =iEfE -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[gentoo-dev] Re: Re: News item: World file handling changes in Portage-2.2
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:38:56 +0100, Mike Auty wrote: Marius Mauch wrote: Maybe the best solution is to drop the non-prefixed versions of 'world' and 'system' completely Deprecating the old syntax sounds like a sensible action to get people shifted onto the new system. I imagine it would work very similarly to emerge info at the moment? Speaking purely as a user, from a usability perspective it's a horrible idea. Don't make me remember special things. To me there is no discernible difference between system and @system, except that I have to remember to prefix the latter over and over again. Different things need different names. Doesn't portage have more pressing problems? In the last 6 years of using Gentoo I cannot remember a single instance where the difference between system and world even mattered to me from an operational point of view. Holger
Re: [gentoo-dev] EAPI-2
On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 22:14:57 -0400 Jim Ramsay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about the PMS EAPI 1 documentation do you consider 'not proper'? I was personally expecting to see some sort of section called EAPI-1 that contains something like: EAPI-1 consists of EAPI-0 with the following features added... Then an explanation of each change and the appropriate syntax. I did see how EAPI-1 is integrated throughout the document, which is valuable in a different way - but it's harder to answer the question What exactly does EAPI-1 add to EAPI-0? The way it is now is valuable to package manage people, since they need to know things like my parser must be able to do foo, bar and baz, not my parser must be able to do foo and then hidden away later the parser must also do bar and baz for EAPI 1. Perhaps I'll try sending you a patch with something like that, if I have time, and if it would be appreciated. We've discussed having a purely informative appendix with a summary of changes between EAPIs, and references to all the relevant sections. But no-one's ever wanted it enough to submit a patch... -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: News item: World file handling changes in Portage-2.2
Holger Hoffstaette wrote: On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:38:56 +0100, Mike Auty wrote: Marius Mauch wrote: Maybe the best solution is to drop the non-prefixed versions of 'world' and 'system' completely Deprecating the old syntax sounds like a sensible action to get people shifted onto the new system. I imagine it would work very similarly to emerge info at the moment? Speaking purely as a user, from a usability perspective it's a horrible idea. Don't make me remember special things. To me there is no discernible difference between system and @system, except that I have to remember to prefix the latter over and over again. Different things need different names. Doesn't portage have more pressing problems? In the last 6 years of using Gentoo I cannot remember a single instance where the difference between system and world even mattered to me from an operational point of view. Holger Also speaking as a user, I confuse pretty easily and you can ask anyone on gentoo-user about that. However, I see the difference between @system and system. The same for world or at least a good idea anyway. I have to also say that I like being able to type in emerge -uvDN world and letting my system upgrade everything that needs upgrading. It's simple, easy and not so much typing. I can somewhat understand the need for @system and @world but think both can live together pretty well. I also can't think of a better name to call it either. I do think there should be some sort of notice for those users that do not follow -dev, -user and/or the forums tho. That has been a issue for a long time. There does not seem to be a clear cut way to inform all Gentoo users except during a emerge. Thing is, emerge -uvDN world will do the same as it always has from my understanding. My $0.02 worth. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-dev] EAPI-2
Ciaran McCreesh kirjoitti: On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:31:08 +0300 Petteri Räty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto kirjoitti: and cardoe's earlier request to the council ml, can the council members discuss this proposal and consider voting it? Does anyone have any objections to this proposal? I won't approve it for use in the tree before it's written as a GLEP in order to avoid the fiasco with EAPI 1 (it's still not documented properly). I can however approve the list of items. What about the PMS EAPI 1 documentation do you consider 'not proper'? I am talking as in it's not documented anywhere readily available in *.gentoo.org. Everything in current PMS git is probably documented. Regards, Petteri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] EAPI-2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Petteri Räty wrote: Ciaran McCreesh kirjoitti: On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:31:08 +0300 Petteri Räty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto kirjoitti: and cardoe's earlier request to the council ml, can the council members discuss this proposal and consider voting it? Does anyone have any objections to this proposal? I won't approve it for use in the tree before it's written as a GLEP in order to avoid the fiasco with EAPI 1 (it's still not documented properly). I can however approve the list of items. What about the PMS EAPI 1 documentation do you consider 'not proper'? I am talking as in it's not documented anywhere readily available in *.gentoo.org. Everything in current PMS git is probably documented. Regards, Petteri Are you saying that the docs in my dev space don't count? http://dev.gentoo.org/~zmedico/portage/doc/portage.html#package-ebuild-eapi-1 - -- Thanks, Zac -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkjIIZ0ACgkQ/ejvha5XGaO+lQCdER+OYtthh1jwq4dECeRZyU1M gb8An3LjpxhUKj+9URGLCgmzfBsJXHpU =Y36b -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] EAPI-2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Petteri Räty wrote: Zac Medico kirjoitti: Petteri Räty wrote: Are you saying that the docs in my dev space don't count? http://dev.gentoo.org/~zmedico/portage/doc/portage.html#package-ebuild-eapi-1 They don't have any official status as far as I know. Fair enough. Anyway, they are available for consideration. - -- Thanks, Zac -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkjITKgACgkQ/ejvha5XGaO2KACdEq+y6Aoxk4AwVdWsrAHY9nK4 GWEAniiLjimhiOF2BZCXo8UVpBpCQcik =0VoB -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for September
On 01:40 Tue 09 Sep , Tom Wesley wrote: If i am not too late then I wish to request the council consider bug 216219 and all it implies. We no longer hold extensive discussions during meetings, so we'll handle this on the gentoo-council mailing list. Basically the request is that we document our appeals process. -- Thanks, Donnie Donnie Berkholz Developer, Gentoo Linux Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com pgpU3grP1Jk2X.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for September
On 03:03 Wed 10 Sep , Mike Frysinger wrote: This is your one-day friendly reminder ! The monthly Gentoo Council meeting is tomorrow in #gentoo-council on irc.freenode.net. See the channel topic for the exact time (but it's probably 2000 UTC). Here's the agenda. I'm eagerly awaiting submission of EAPI 2, whenever folks are ready. To track Tom Wesley's request that we document the appeals process, I opened http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=237381. We'll discuss it on the gentoo-council mailing list. BTW, sorry about the delay getting old meetings posted. My wife I just had a baby last week and things have been hectic around here for a while. -- Thanks, Donnie Donnie Berkholz Developer, Gentoo Linux Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com Roll call = betelgeuse dberkholz dertobi123 halcy0n jokey lu_zero First = Filling the empty slot -- Last time there was an empty slot, we voted on whether to fill the slot with the next person from the original rankings. Let's do the same this time. It's Cardoe. Goal: Vote whether to approve Cardoe for the empty council slot. Old topics == PMS as a draft standard of EAPI 0 - Next meeting is Sept 11, and we request that everyone involved with PM development or the spec email gentoo-dev about any issues with it. Otherwise, it's likely to be approved as a draft standard. Goal: Vote whether to approve PMS as a draft standard of EAPI 0. New topics == None. pgpli34bjpjL3.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] Re: Hi
http://drifank.net/v/
