Re: [gentoo-dev] Removing retired developers from project pages
Jan Kundrát wrote: Petteri Räty wrote: -date2006-05-02/date +date$DATE: $/date Please revert all date changes you've made for following reasons: a) $DATE: $ isn't expanded by CVS b) Even if it was expanded, I won't be expanded to the -mm-dd format c) Even if it was in -mm-dd format, it won't be fully usable by our XSLT stylesheets as we can't handle $Date 2007-05-02$, only 2007-05-02 Not exactly true. Look at http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/portage/ where date$Date: 2007/05/02 08:04:44 $/date becomes Updated May 2, 2007 Only handbooks would be affected, and only if there were mixed formats because dates of handbooks are sorted first and the latest is formatted later. That would be easy to change, but I don't think there's any demand for that. d) We don't bump date automatically because some changes (typo fixes etc) aren't important enough to warrant that. Indeed, that's why we do not use $Date$ inside the date/ tag. For instance, if you fix a typo in a 2 year old file, you do not want to change the date because 1) the content did not change 2) you did not check whether the document is still valid today. If that's not a problem for you, there's no problem with using $Date$, just do not use $DATE$ :) Cheers, -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / /\ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP 39 compliance
Alec Warner wrote: Danny van Dyk wrote: Am Mittwoch, 30. August 2006 14:26 schrieb Alec Warner: Eselect, your project pages lists retired developers (Ciaran).[4] Ciaran is the original Author, and he still helps more than ocassionally with problems and bugs. I won't remove him from that page. As precedences, the Gentoo Handbook list of authors contains former Gentoo devs. Not just the handbook. Whenever any dev retires, all docs which he is credited in should be updated with his new email, or no @gentoo.org email. This has been mentioned on #gentoo-doc a few weeks ago. Using the roll-call to replace the @gentoo.org email of a retired dev with his new one or no email is on my todo list. Danny The only problem is that it lists him as contactable by [EMAIL PROTECTED] aka [EMAIL PROTECTED] which is false. I've actually wondered about this as well since I've been in projects as a non-dev and Treecleaners has non-devs. Can we get some kind of modification to the dev tag for non-gentoo contributors? Atm, using the dev implies the dev is listed in the roll-call. The status can be tested to perform s/Member/Retired/ A fourth column with the email instead of the hardcoded text All developers can be reached by e-mail using [EMAIL PROTECTED] below the table is a trivial thing to do. Extending dev with something like dev role=Contributor nick=fnord email=[EMAIL PROTECTED]Mr. Foo Bar/dev would be no problem. I would agree with you that removing him would be immensely inconsiderate. Once you guys have made up your mind, please do file a bug for me as I tend to not read much of -dev. Thanks. Wkr, -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / /\ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Nominations open for the Gentoo Council 2007
Mike Frysinger wrote: thanks to solar and yoswink we have a xml version now: http://dev.gentoo.org/~vapier/council-2006-nominees.xml for you peeps who have yet to speak up at all, please do so in the next week, or i'll start hunting you down when i get back from China :) s/when/if/ I noticed someone with a name very close to mine was nominated. I'm not sure about him, but I wouldn't accept it :) Thanks for the nomination. Regards, -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / /\ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Heritage
Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Wed, 2006-05-10 at 00:55 -0400, Curtis Napier wrote: Grant Goodyear wrote: Curtis Napier wrote: [Tue May 09 2006, 09:49:27PM CDT] Larry our wonderful mascot is from a font collection that we DO NOT OWN THE COPYRIGHT TOO. Our esteemed ex-architect STOLE Larry. Legally speaking we have no rights to use Larry whatsoever and if the owner of the copyright ever stumbles onto gentoo.org and sees it we are looking at a big fat lawsuit. Both Jon and I (separately) addressed this earlier, but I'm pretty sure that although we don't own the copyright to Larry, the font it is from has a license that allows us to use it freely. If you have evidence to the contrary, please let me know, and I'll see what I can do to obtain any necessary rights. -g2boojum- I don't see a license for it anywhere. If we have a copy it would probably be best to have it somewhere easily accessible. Putting it in the images directory on the website makes sense. I have a copy of the font. It is ©2000 Ethan Dunham ‐ Fonthead Design ‐ http://www.fonthead.com Larry is the letter 's' in FontHeads which has been released as freeware. http://fonthead.com/freeware.php is very explicit about allowed usage: Use them in your personal and commercial projects, websites, logos or whatever else you are designing. Regards, -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / /\ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Heritage
Larry asked me not to top-post... Josh Saddler wrote: In fact, I'd say it's _udderly_ disturbing. . . . *vanishes* Anyway, yes, our mascot has been along for the ride longer than most of us have been on the project. I'd like to see him stick around. Thomas Cort wrote: On Sat, 06 May 2006 21:22:56 -0700 Joshua Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've noticed a disturbing trend with the website redesign. Larry is disappearing from the site. That is utterly disturbing! I too enjoy Larry the cow, and would like to keep him around and improve his visibility on the site. I think he makes a nice mascot for Gentoo. ~tcort The rumour has it that an ALF activist decided to free Larry because it had to be as free as our code. The truth is I found it alone in a pasture, it had lost its appetite and felt very lonely. It begged of me to be allowed back into Gentoo Land and asked me what it had done wrong to be cast away like that. My friends, it was in tears, and I joined it, I could not help it. I decided to take it back home. While we walked back, it mentioned it liked the text around it very much, even though it can't read English very well. Its language only has one vowel, the o, mostly used in pairs. It wondered whether the Council should take care of this nice aboot.xml page as well as the Social Contract and the Philosophy. It also wondered why it had been given a male name because Larry is a she. I told her I didn't know the answer and she was not the only case in Gentoo Land. Larry is now resting in her stable and will be entertaining you as soon as she has digested her first meal in more than a week. Welcome back, Larry! -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / /\ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Translation questions [was: Re: [gentoo-dev] I want to help, but I don't know where]
Rafael Bugajewski wrote: Mark Kowarsky wrote: If you want to help http://www.securesystem.info/tiki-view_blog_post.php?blogId=3postId=104 contains a good summary of what and how you can help out :). Thanks for the nice link. I read some stuff and now I know that the first step is helping out. So I will translate some existing documentation into german. I could start writing everything in german into a plain text file, but I don't think it's a good idea. In my opinion it would be better if I could write the XML files directly and submit it to Bugzilla for approval. But where can I get a needed XML structure, example or at least description? Greets, Rafael Bugajewski Hi Rafael, Thanks for your offer. German translations are handled by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (and Polish ones by [EMAIL PROTECTED] btw). FYI, we also have a staffing needs page linked from our home page: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/staffing-needs/ Please use our gentoo-doc@gentoo.org mailing list for anything regarding documentation or translations. You can also find us on #gentoo-doc on freenode. Besides, you'll find useful documentation at http://gdp.gentoo.org/ Cheers, -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / /\ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP ??: Critical News Reporting
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 19:33:37 +0100 Jan Kundrát [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Once this tool is implemented and well tested it can be integrated | into portage. can ! will. It might, but don't count on it. | GLSA already contains stuff for marking items as valid only for given | systems, for injecting them etc. Why don't use existing code? Why | duplication? Because it's quicker to invent a wheel which is actually round. Reinventing rounder wheels seems to be a common hobby. | You think XML magically makes things compatible? Then I suggest you | write a GuieXML to Docbook conversion tool, and see how many | thousand lines of XSLT it takes. All XML does is move the | conversion and parsing problems to a different, more complex level. | | I'm not familiar with DocBook, but I doubt I'll need thousands of | lines of code. Oh? Our GuideXML to HTML conversion is thousands of lines of code... Plain wrong, but you have always made it clear that you are not only biased against XML for anything, but also very much XML challenged. Don't worry, some are even worse than you are, worse enough to claim that XML is hard to parse because XML files from a programming perspective require extra logic to parse. Compare the following key value pair and xml tag pseudo parsing logic for configuration: tag1entry/tag1 Hit a , tag1 as realized tag name, read until , read ahead one to ensure a closing slash, read until to get the tag name, compare tag name with previous tag name to see what tag it's closing. store value attached to tag1. Just a short sample against metadata.xml using ruby/dom instead of python/sax: http://dev.gentoo.org/~neysx/metax.rb Discarding XML for the reasons some are using is like recommending key=value flat .ini files because windows used it in the 80s. They have to be parsed as well, and, as opposed to XML, you have to check for unknown keys, double keys, missing ones, then you need some grouping and you introduce [sections], which you have to check as well, no doubles, no missing ones, no illegal ones, then you need a deeper hierarchy and you use key=/path/to/another/file.ini... Both have reasons to be used, neither is a one-fits-all answer. Anyway, this is getting off-topic, and, FWIW, I believe the suggested format is adequate because it is light, easy to write, read, parse, and even transform into XML should one process ever need it. Besides, it is very much standard, if it's good enough for billions of mail and http messages a day, it's probably good enough for us. -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / French Internationalisation Lead \ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en /\ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP ??: Critical News Reporting
Thierry Carrez wrote: Paul de Vrieze wrote: Oh god help. This also points to another reason why this is not such a good idea. Writing guideXML is a lot more work than writing an e-mail format file (ciaran's proposed format for those who didn't recognize it). Also having double files containing the same information is broken by design. OK so there is two options : 1- every news requires a GuideXML/RST/whatever errata at a central web location Pros: - non-portage user can easily browse errata - consistency in documentation Cons: - work overhead for errata-writing dev 2- every news requires just a short text-based item, extra doc is optional Pros: - flexibility: short news don't require writing extra doc - external doc reuse: the documentation referenced in the news item can be some upstream upgrade doc when sufficient Cons: - lack of consistency and difficulty for non-portage users to browse We can have the best of both worlds if we find a way to reduce the work overhead to 0 (using some kind of news2errataXml translator ?). If we can't, I tend to favor the second solution... Both can be done. Posting news items on our front page can be done today, publishing upgrade notes can be done today, grouping all upgrade documents in an upgrade category on the main doc index (docs.gentoo.org) can be done today, having upgrade.gentoo.org point to it can be done one hour later. All of the above does not require a single line of code. I suppose the news snippets could also be integrated in packages.gentoo.org, hopefully without requiring too much work. -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / French Internationalisation Lead \ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en /\ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: GLEP 42 (Was: Getting Important Updates To Users)
Nathan L. Adams wrote: One source: http://errata.gentoo.org/ Push that out to as many alternate sources as you like (RSS feeds, summaries in emerge --news, forums post, etc.), but make it known that the website is *the* source (your alternate sources should point back to it). I beg to differ. The tree should be the central point because it's the only known place where all users can receive relevant information on and for each and every system they maintain right before they upgrade. The warning and the logic that triggers its display should be part of Portage. Sometimes, all that would need to be displayed is run foo to fix bar or Please do read http://bleh _before_ you upgrade foo. If an Upgrade guide to foo/bar for Gentoo is required, you need an author to write it, not extra code or an extra web site. -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / French Internationalisation Lead \ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en /\ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP ??: Critical News Reporting
Danny van Dyk wrote: Xavier Neys schrieb: | Discarding XML for the reasons some are using is like recommending | key=value flat .ini files because windows used it in the 80s. | They have to be parsed as well, and, as opposed to XML, you have to | check for unknown keys, double keys, missing ones, then you need some | grouping and you introduce [sections], which you have to check as well, | no doubles, no missing ones, no illegal ones, then you need a deeper | hierarchy and you use key=/path/to/another/file.ini... He suggested using a RFC822 style Header. Please stick to the facts... Had you read that bit properly, you would have noticed I was quoting someone else. Had you read the post to the end, you would have realised I understand that and that I even support it. -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / French Internationalisation Lead \ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en /\ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] GLEP ??: Critical News Reporting
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 15:26:28 +0100 Xavier Neys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Oh? Our GuideXML to HTML conversion is thousands of lines of code... | | Plain wrong, but you have always made it clear that you are not only | biased against XML for anything, but also very much XML challenged. Run a wc -l on guide.xsl sometime. Either wc is lying or that alone is thousands of lines of code. You know how to count. Well done. You still haven't got a fscking clue what you're counting, though. BTW, 1525 is not thousands. Remove all the html that surrounds the content, i.e. the top bar with logo and menu, the left col with the menu and old news items, the right col with the ads and you're left with less than a thousand lines. Then remove the blank lines, comments and a bit of what I believe is dead wood but I know has nothing to do with GuideXML, and what's left already does a lot more than GuideXML to HTML transformation. | Don't worry, some are even worse than you are, worse enough to claim | that XML is hard to parse because XML files from a programming | perspective require extra logic to parse. Compare the following key | value pair and xml tag pseudo parsing logic for configuration: | tag1entry/tag1 | Hit a , tag1 as realized tag name, read until , read ahead one to | ensure a closing slash, read until to get the tag name, compare tag | name with previous tag name to see what tag it's closing. store value | attached to tag1. That is not parsing XML. That is parsing some arbitrary markup language you just invented. Please read the XML specification, note how complex some of the little used side features are, and then remember that a compliant XML parser has to implement **all** of them. I did not invent that, I was quoting another dev. FYI, the quote is the bit between the characters. -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / French Internationalisation Lead \ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en /\ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting Important Updates To Users
Sven Vermeulen wrote: On Sun, Oct 30, 2005 at 04:52:39PM +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote: The reason why the front page and the gentoo-announce ML (the two official media for Gentoo - users information) are under-used is that approximately 5% of the developers know how to post to them. We should probably make them more open (with a moderation system to check message), then they will be used more. But there is no such system available yet. It is a single commit that gets transferred to the web site, no moderation possible. Doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done though. Wkr, Sven Vermeulen PS. If you want something posted in the current system, ping infra or mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the news item and it should get posted. I know, not the best track, but that's the current system. Considering the number of hits on www.g.o, our front page is probably the best place for a single point of information. Top-5 hits for October 2005: /rdf/en/gentoo-news.rdf 1,319,035 / 1,168,361 /doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml 549,658 /rdf/en/glsa-index.rdf 528,659 /doc/en/index.xml 428,579 Should critical updates be announced in a news item? IMHO, yes, it can and it should be done. How? Maybe it would be easier to have a bugzilla alias, have news items be posted to b.g.o and let an extended pr team review and publish (or discard). As long as the news item is properly written and posted early enough, I see no problem with that. Wkr, -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / French Internationalisation Lead \ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en /\ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Getting Important Updates To Users
Simon Stelling wrote: Reading gentoo-announce should be mandatory. If a user breaks his system because he didn't know about an important fact due to his lazyness, that's not our problem. Of course they will still bitch, so let's introduce RESOLVED RTF_ML_. Number of users subscribed to gentoo-announce: 7,988 Total number of GETs on our home page and news feed in a *single day*: 75,302 from 19,240 different IPs (on Sunday 2005-10-30). Wkr, -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / French Internationalisation Lead \ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en /\ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Food For Thought: Bugzilla Localization?
Chris White wrote: Ok, I'm just going to sort of throw this into the mix, so here goes: I was talking with the -doc people about the bugzilla doc I was working on. I wanted to try and get rid of the pictures, and go with something more ascii representative for ease of translation. But then someone brought up the obvious point that our bugzilla is a non-english speaking language bugzilla. This brings in mind the issue of how to handle bugs that non-english users want solved. A couple of ideas came to mind: Good news. It will make the guide easier to read, to translate and to download (it weighs as much as 3 full handbooks at the moment). 1) Are there official gentoo i18n groups, and if so, do they have their own bugzilla. If so, maybe we can link to them from the non-bugzilla site, and the people their can transition non-english bugs over to standard bugzilla. 2) Can people be brought on board to localize bugzilla, as well as provide translation of non-english bugs. 3) Somewhat similiar to 2, explain to users what the english fields mean, and have them fill it out in their own language, then have someone come by and translate it for the developers. While I don't have quite all the answers here, I'm wondering if someone has a viable solution to this somewhat obscure issue. Thanks. Chris White A translated bugzie howto would be most useful but I doubt a localised bugs.g.o would help. IMHO, it will generate more bugs entirely not in English. Looks like we'd need to pass bugs through several filters: bug-translators=bug-wranglers=assigned http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99929 would have to be solved first btw. Cheers, -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / French Internationalisation Lead \ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en /\ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Jan Hendrik Grahl
Mike Doty wrote: All- Everyone welcome Jan(grahl04) as the newest GDP German translator. Follow-up actually. In his own words, Most of my time is currently spent attending the University of Florida, apart from that I like to engage in a number of volunteer organizations, such as the Civic Media Center, an alternative library for non-corporate press as well as direct political campaings and organizations in my area. For those who might wonder, especially in GDP, he's been helping Tobias for a long time and it's about time we made him an official translator. Welcome aboard Jan. You know where to find us if you need any help. Cheers, -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / French Internationalisation Lead \ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en /\ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo Documentation Licensing (CC Attribution/Share Alike)
Duncan wrote: I was just reading a GLSA on the announce list, and noticed the Creative-Commons Attribution/Share-alike license at the bottom. Why I clicked the link this time in particular I don't know, but I did... It seems the 2.0 version that Gentoo is currently using is now an older version. There's a 2.5 version available. I didn't notice anything different in the human readable commons deed, and didn't click the link to the full legalese version to investigate further. However, it's probably something the Gentoo legal folks (and core, I suppose, tho as I user I don't have access to that list, AFAIK, so I don't know for sure) need to be aware of, and consider switching to. Pardon me if it's come up before and/or is being dealt with, but I've not seen it covered yet here, and again, don't have access to core. A quick bugs check didn't reveal anything either. Our documentation is released under cc-by-sa 2.5, glsa's are not. The original glsa's (xml versions) do not carry any license. If they had a license/ tag which is allowed and processed, it would show as 2.5 on www.g.o. (the text does not mention the version, maybe it should, but the link points to the 2.5 one). FYI, a glsa xml file is first transformed into a guidexml file, then transformed into html like any other doc. The security team can either add a license/ tag to their glsa's, we can even make it compulsory if they want to, or we can remove the test from the first transform and add a license/ tag to all generated guidexml glsa's. The license you noticed has been hardcoded in the XSL that transforms the glsa into the text version. It sould be updated. Cheers, -- / Xavier Neys \_ Gentoo Documentation Project / French Internationalisation Lead \ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en /\ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
