Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 10:39:54 +0200 Fabio Erculiani lx...@gentoo.org wrote: The final outcome I would love to see is that everybody eventually graduates from kindergarten :-) And perhaps introduce a culture-fit score in the recruiting, mentoring process. Maybe we should require everyone to be able to recite /usr/share/fortune/gentoo-dev[1]. It's a start, right? jer [1] USE=offensive emerge games-misc/fortune-mod-gentoo-dev but let's not put this particularly useful hint in the quizzes. ;-)
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On 06/19/13 18:35:49, Markos Chandras wrote: Hi, It is unfortunate to observe constant bullying, insults and trolling across our public media. Developers have been warned over and over that such behaviour is not acceptable and they should try to behave properly. However, people have ignored such warnings for a very long time. This ends today. [snip] -- Regards, Markos Chandras - Gentoo Linux Developer http://dev.gentoo.org/~hwoarang This has my support. I would like to see council voice their complete support publically too, as thats one of the reasons proctors failed. -- Regards, Roy Bamford (Neddyseagoon) an member of gentoo-ops forum-mods trustees
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On 06/20/2013 05:53 AM, Diego Elio Pettenò wrote: Does this mean the QA lead finally gets to suspend people who are patently not suited for developing a stable distribution without asking devrel? Because last time we got into the same judge, jury, and executioner argument, which I guess was just sent for the gallows (pun intended). I'm not against that, but I prefer setting some fast track involving at most 3 people and some procedure also for it. E.g. : you can ask for 6h suspension on direct request and by contacting a single devrel person to get an 1week suspension within 2 days. Mind, it's not like I disagree with at least one of the actions that you took recently, but given your surge approach I would like to point out that is not your task judging code quality, and yes that does make me uncomfortable, that you want to pick up the full power at once, and not collaborate with whom should have been involved in the process. As said, this whole thing is just an interim solution till fast-path procedures get deployed. lu
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On 20 June 2013 04:53, Diego Elio Pettenò flamee...@flameeyes.eu wrote: Does this mean the QA lead finally gets to suspend people who are patently not suited for developing a stable distribution without asking devrel? Because last time we got into the same judge, jury, and executioner argument, which I guess was just sent for the gallows (pun intended). Mind, it's not like I disagree with at least one of the actions that you took recently, but given your surge approach I would like to point out that is not your task judging code quality, and yes that does make me uncomfortable, that you want to pick up the full power at once, and not collaborate with whom should have been involved in the process. Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes flamee...@flameeyes.eu — http://blog.flameeyes.eu/ There is a high chance I drive this thread off-topic but: I believe the QA lead always had the power to suspend people if they break the tree but like I explained to my e-mail this is a temporary solution so it's not something we want in the long-term. Such actions need to be discussed internally. It's true that is not our task to judge code. But my understanding was that QA is not willing to pick up this task. We've seen numerous examples of bad commits or CCs of qa@g.o in bugs with several technical disagreements and not a single QA warning you are doing it wrong. I could easily be wrong though as I can't track everything. My opinion is that you need to bring more people in QA so you can delegate the technical tasks to them. -- Regards, Markos Chandras - Gentoo Linux Developer http://dev.gentoo.org/~hwoarang
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
The final outcome I would love to see is that everybody eventually graduates from kindergarten :-) And perhaps introduce a culture-fit score in the recruiting, mentoring process. -- Fabio Erculiani
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On 06/20/2013 03:39 AM, Fabio Erculiani wrote: The final outcome I would love to see is that everybody eventually graduates from kindergarten :-) And perhaps introduce a culture-fit score in the recruiting, mentoring process. As an employee that works for a company that requires a culture fit (very important to us). This helps a ton. -- -- Matthew Thode (prometheanfire) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On 20.6.2013 14.01, Matthew Thode wrote: On 06/20/2013 03:39 AM, Fabio Erculiani wrote: The final outcome I would love to see is that everybody eventually graduates from kindergarten :-) And perhaps introduce a culture-fit score in the recruiting, mentoring process. As an employee that works for a company that requires a culture fit (very important to us). This helps a ton. Sounds good in theory but how do you calculate that score? In companies there's much more interactions that allow to accumulate information for such things. Regards, Petteri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On 06/20/2013 07:49 AM, Petteri Räty wrote: On 20.6.2013 14.01, Matthew Thode wrote: On 06/20/2013 03:39 AM, Fabio Erculiani wrote: The final outcome I would love to see is that everybody eventually graduates from kindergarten :-) And perhaps introduce a culture-fit score in the recruiting, mentoring process. As an employee that works for a company that requires a culture fit (very important to us). This helps a ton. Sounds good in theory but how do you calculate that score? In companies there's much more interactions that allow to accumulate information for such things. Regards, Petteri We do it during the interview process. I kinda think the best analog we can do is to watch both before and during the probation period to see how well they fit. -- -- Matthew Thode (prometheanfire) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/20/2013 03:07 PM, Matthew Thode wrote: On 06/20/2013 07:49 AM, Petteri Räty wrote: On 20.6.2013 14.01, Matthew Thode wrote: On 06/20/2013 03:39 AM, Fabio Erculiani wrote: The final outcome I would love to see is that everybody eventually graduates from kindergarten :-) And perhaps introduce a culture-fit score in the recruiting, mentoring process. As an employee that works for a company that requires a culture fit (very important to us). This helps a ton. Sounds good in theory but how do you calculate that score? In companies there's much more interactions that allow to accumulate information for such things. Regards, Petteri We do it during the interview process. I kinda think the best analog we can do is to watch both before and during the probation period to see how well they fit. Maybe that period should be extended. Longer period - more carful thinking of your own actions - becomes a habit. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRwv+AAAoJEFpvPKfnPDWzCtMH/1K4jB/uWciUQaoQ1wT6DI1O DVPjyOyqYzK3IEpZZS4kBrVlL3Knumd41hSHhnnHAc82hcEOeJBAZedpXBuNjsj/ qH64v/nIAUR3rs7TSOOdy0cqSlOSOcU2tlZ4j3eW6Ddihks4mO8cZNnURTi/gzGn DWqrqJHNsefOEUR+GpA0NkaK7/ry/flbSvruQ2wqzwy9Zfgdw7W+NaM2G4FERxGL 0qkQJ+DEfB0wwIf1hz68GIw12ZcKz28qPwSYtNQjliGCyZFxGeZJeG15uUhTDqYW pNRU1BZIwEnoK9vUNfapVeB3EVkJ6PXJ3uXsjCZOBFB1ekS0b+4lDNdaarcBvNI= =7DA8 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On 06/20/2013 08:11 AM, hasufell wrote: On 06/20/2013 03:07 PM, Matthew Thode wrote: On 06/20/2013 07:49 AM, Petteri Räty wrote: On 20.6.2013 14.01, Matthew Thode wrote: On 06/20/2013 03:39 AM, Fabio Erculiani wrote: The final outcome I would love to see is that everybody eventually graduates from kindergarten :-) And perhaps introduce a culture-fit score in the recruiting, mentoring process. As an employee that works for a company that requires a culture fit (very important to us). This helps a ton. Sounds good in theory but how do you calculate that score? In companies there's much more interactions that allow to accumulate information for such things. Regards, Petteri We do it during the interview process. I kinda think the best analog we can do is to watch both before and during the probation period to see how well they fit. Maybe that period should be extended. Longer period - more carful thinking of your own actions - becomes a habit. That might be a good idea. I just wish that we could do some sort of culture fit before they get devship (should be a prerequisite). -- -- Matthew Thode (prometheanfire) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On 20.6.2013 16.07, Matthew Thode wrote: On 06/20/2013 07:49 AM, Petteri Räty wrote: On 20.6.2013 14.01, Matthew Thode wrote: On 06/20/2013 03:39 AM, Fabio Erculiani wrote: The final outcome I would love to see is that everybody eventually graduates from kindergarten :-) And perhaps introduce a culture-fit score in the recruiting, mentoring process. As an employee that works for a company that requires a culture fit (very important to us). This helps a ton. Sounds good in theory but how do you calculate that score? In companies there's much more interactions that allow to accumulate information for such things. Regards, Petteri We do it during the interview process. I kinda think the best analog we can do is to watch both before and during the probation period to see how well they fit. That's already part of the process. What we can improve is that I don't remember mentors reporting back on problems during the probation period. Maybe automate that in some way so the mentors get emails and should respond. Petteri signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 [talking about recruiting] Please don't focus on new arrivals, we should all be under investigation. I don't know the distribution of dev-ship-duration, but (hopefully) it's long enough to justify a look at the stock. And it's not fair to pick on the candidates by putting them under close watch (mentor ship, probation already in place) and let the established ones walk away. - -- Michael Weber Gentoo Developer web: https://xmw.de/ mailto: Michael Weber x...@gentoo.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlHDBGsACgkQknrdDGLu8JAIyAD6Apa6awYhImRLpDKwYG8Jled5 aCCm2tI6XF/yvdp+ZWcBAJGKvPVDWNePrLCLbzGRk3Q3sOIxI3yoSuHJdt9GR7Rc =MnYK -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On 06/20/2013 08:32 AM, Michael Weber wrote: [talking about recruiting] Please don't focus on new arrivals, we should all be under investigation. I don't know the distribution of dev-ship-duration, but (hopefully) it's long enough to justify a look at the stock. And it's not fair to pick on the candidates by putting them under close watch (mentor ship, probation already in place) and let the established ones walk away. True, I'm just saying that we can help prevent this from happening if we screened our candidates a little better. We should keep going with policing our existing devs as well of course. -- -- Matthew Thode (prometheanfire) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Michael Weber x...@gentoo.org wrote: And it's not fair to pick on the candidates by putting them under close watch (mentor ship, probation already in place) and let the established ones walk away. Tend to agree, and I don't think it is as productive either. Set policies and enforce them, and the culture will gradually align to where we want it to go. Right now our culture probably turns away people who would be a good cultural fit because the reality is that they're really not a good fit because our current culture is lousy. If we fixed our culture, then people who want to flame away are likely to not bother applying because they see others like them being hounded by devrel. Policy enforcement isn't just corrective - it is preventative. When you set examples, others follow them beyond just the immediate target. Over time, properly-applied discipline is something that puts itself out of business. Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/20/2013 04:39 AM, Fabio Erculiani wrote: The final outcome I would love to see is that everybody eventually graduates from kindergarten :-) And perhaps introduce a culture-fit score in the recruiting, mentoring process. Fabio, How about instead of quitting you run for student^H^H^H^H^H Gentoo council? I know why I'm running, and it's not because I think the status quo is acceptable. I nominate lxnay for council, on the basis that he must officially withdraw his retirement request first. Now accept so I can vote for you. - -Zero -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRwxOqAAoJEKXdFCfdEflKoCEP/0Ka8h8rxasTjMdyTWiMXUzg iAmKIWFODe9CjOSbzEkqOvtGkL/qlKIPqO9OINJHktPWp+Izd2dOTvTARwO6ngHn MIUA3uaxCkHbk78uQQAf7TJkP4WaaShXEtA3p5mh52i4mWhlPuvApzWv/Bfcnzl7 jtACqURZecu66TQS+S6Q1zozwq+EojjnCCb4HNS4A3ck8ZGGQ8Kn5YlbfWpWxcrS TQ87KM/wdcYZzdOpzN4LwA9DAakobMKVfGcHQPqXyONOY9mju/bYJ5/AJMwthxXx YWIhfcTMpS69juYTfDXhoJmh1nGhZE17eXFmcGXdxOeMpuGUKJekBWe6/qPbuJpy pAT0CgDLxWgT7MU1faxNiur4SYj5xxb6IDP+emUEiyWgThsmy7dK3GvC+s6z4AzY ElZSkbrpEU7q+dsTBrvWd7bhgZJprR7uJxGzBLtnjk/gMhVSk+EH8SGfbTAeHpTp i34Z57UaCIhjohGZgJBDAEoMO4oq9QLkCXfwZeSmsSZykeiEUn/lx8hsydwgzxNj 16u7XT7hlPxauMoYADjM5qxVG+34qaCOv90RiDM6YHXaN3s9Jn1AERLpQmoPbEHk qCMJyhBbf5rZhMrcpV5P0g5VPp9aRvGQjem0Q7vmJWLBxR7vRftf8lfxfP0mtWJ0 pJPBLv9FxlDLaXTamaQv =aEyq -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
Thanks for the offer, I appreciate it, but I have to decline this time. -- Fabio Erculiani
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 06:35:49PM +0100, Markos Chandras wrote: For me, this problem is critical. Devrel is working on formalizing a new policy, and we will announce news on this soon. In the meantime, to prevent further escalations, I will use my lead powers to request immediate bans whenever I see one of you violate the CoC[2] and ignore the previous warnings. Thank you for stepping up and working to address this, it's much appreciated. greg k-h
RE: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
on Wed, 19 Jun 2013, at 10:35, Markos Chandras thusly quipped: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hi, It is unfortunate to observe constant bullying, insults and trolling across our public media. Developers have been warned over and over that such behaviour is not acceptable and they should try to behave properly. However, people have ignored such warnings for a very long time. This ends today. Tough talk. We'll see... The DevRel policy states that: If the issue is deemed critical, the developer in question may have his or her access suspended while a vote takes place. In such situations, the Developer Relations lead may act without a vote of the remaining Developer Relations team; this power is granted by Council. Except in critical situations where immediate action is required, such disciplinary action is determined by members of the Developer Relations project.[1] For me, this problem is critical. Devrel is working on formalizing a new policy, and we will announce news on this soon. In the meantime, to prevent further escalations, I will use my lead powers to request immediate bans whenever I see one of you violate the CoC[2] and ignore the previous warnings. Hmm... that's a serious responsibility you've assigned yourself. I hope you'll be a benevolent, impartial and reasonable interim judge, jury and muzzler. My fellow developers, it's time you finally realize that you are part of a community and you must learn to behave and respect each other even if you have different technical views. We are all people sharing a common interest: Gentoo. [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/policy.xml#doc_chap2 [2] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/coc.xml Sorry to hear you have such a low opinion of the socialization of Gentoo developers. Since I'm not one of them, I'll just put forth my 2c in on this, without fear of consequences. Am I the only one who feels that trolling, abuse, and so forth, are largely in the eye of the beholder, and that lively, impassioned, constructive debate may seem to many readers like hyperbole and ad hominem attack? As long as I can remember, candid and even ostensibly hostile debate and argument have been a part of the Gentoo process (the same goes for a great many open-source projects). Thus far, although not without some frustration and angst, Gentoo has weathered these storms, and somehow managed to make sound decisions based on technical and practical merit, after all is said and done. Have you considered the possibility, Markos, that, although not pretty to look at, such conflicts provide an important cathartic channel to relieve certain psychological pressures? In environments where everyone is expected, on pain of discipline, to be civil all the time, my experience is that folks start to build up resentments which eventually explode forth, spectacularly, despite -- indeed, one might say, because of -- their best efforts to conform to those expectations. IIRC, Gentoo already has rules forbidding a laundry-list of antisocial behaviors like racism, sexism, threats of violence, and so forth, and some provisions in place to handle violators of that policy, does it not? Further -- and please take this as more of a rhetorical flourish than a genuine concern, but, I wonder, whose job it is to muzzle you, Markos, if you, yourself get out of line, and will they dare perform it? Has a clear consensus emerged that existing rules are not strong enough? Or perhaps, are a vocal minority just butt-hurt about some particular discussion that happened recently? I'm asking fully in earnest, and I sincerely hope -- and genuinely presume -- I don't have to worry that I'll be muzzled for doing so, on the basis that I'm trolling or what-have-you. Why should I even feel the need to say so? Perhaps, that is my problem and sheer paranoia, but surely, you can appreciate how such an announcement can potentially have certain chilling effects, and that the merits of strict enforcement of such well-intended policies are not necessarily so clear as they might seem on first glance. Wishing you the best in your effort to make Gentoo a more civil and friendly community, -gmt attachment: winmail.dat
RE: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
Gentoo developers have been resigning from the project because they got burned out by dealing with ad-hominems, insults, and flames. I do not see CoC enforcement as some sort of plot to enforce groupthink or silence debate, but as an attempt to fix the real problem of burnout and talent drain.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 03:43:41PM -0400, Alexandre Rostovtsev wrote: Gentoo developers have been resigning from the project because they got burned out by dealing with ad-hominems, insults, and flames. I do not see CoC enforcement as some sort of plot to enforce groupthink or silence debate, but as an attempt to fix the real problem of burnout and talent drain. Agreed. This has nothing to do with chilling good technical debate. People are leaving the project because they are getting tired of the flaming, personal attacks, etc, and I am fully behind devrel doing something about that. imo it should have been done a long time ago. William signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 3:15 PM, g...@malth.us wrote: Am I the only one who feels that trolling, abuse, and so forth, are largely in the eye of the beholder, and that lively, impassioned, constructive debate may seem to many readers like hyperbole and ad hominem attack? Hence my comment that this is a bit of a sledgehammer approach. I really wouldn't want to see current head of devrel becomes judge, jury, and executioner as a long-term strategy. However, the status quo is not acceptable either. He did say he was working on long-term proposals, and I think we ought to at least let him offer his suggestions before we jump down his throat. If things get out of hand as a community I'm sure we'll deal with it, but the pendulum is far to the opposite side right now. The fact is that we already trust every Gentoo dev with the equivalent of root on our systems, so I think we can give Markos the benefit of the doubt when he aims to reform Devrel. Rich
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
On 06/19/2013 09:15 PM, g...@malth.us wrote: Sorry to hear you have such a low opinion of the socialization of Gentoo developers. Since I'm not one of them, I'll just put forth my 2c in on this, without fear of consequences. Yet even users not behaving will get a friendly warning and might be restricted in their access to our media. Am I the only one who feels that trolling, abuse, and so forth, are largely in the eye of the beholder, and that lively, impassioned, constructive debate may seem to many readers like hyperbole and ad hominem attack? So better to try to think twice and write when you are sure you are as clear as possible =) As long as I can remember, candid and even ostensibly hostile debate and argument have been a part of the Gentoo process (the same goes for a great many open-source projects). Thus far, although not without some frustration and angst, Gentoo has weathered these storms, and somehow managed to make sound decisions based on technical and practical merit, after all is said and done. Sure, but since we are getting more and more people burnt by the process and nothing is gained or lost between: You suck and this idea is not going to fly at all and I'm sure it will not work Have you considered the possibility, Markos, that, although not pretty to look at, such conflicts provide an important cathartic channel to relieve certain psychological pressures? In environments where everyone is expected, on pain of discipline, to be civil all the time, my experience is that folks start to build up resentments which eventually explode forth, spectacularly, despite -- indeed, one might say, because of -- their best efforts to conform to those expectations. You can be direct and yet not infringe the CoC. IIRC, Gentoo already has rules forbidding a laundry-list of antisocial behaviors like racism, sexism, threats of violence, and so forth, and some provisions in place to handle violators of that policy, does it not? Yes and now is being enforced fully. Further -- and please take this as more of a rhetorical flourish than a genuine concern, but, I wonder, whose job it is to muzzle you, Markos, if you, yourself get out of line, and will they dare perform it? The rest of devrel still does have full power, the quick action of the devrel leader is just a in between once we got to agree on the quick-action protocol. We have a lengthy procedure for major infringement and it doesn't work for small infringements. Has a clear consensus emerged that existing rules are not strong enough? Is not a matter of rules, but procedures to enforce the rules. Or perhaps, are a vocal minority just butt-hurt about some particular discussion that happened recently? I'm asking fully in earnest, and I sincerely hope -- and genuinely presume -- I don't have to worry that I'll be muzzled for doing so, on the basis that I'm trolling or what-have-you. No minorities had been considered, vocal or silent. Why should I even feel the need to say so? Perhaps, that is my problem and sheer paranoia, but surely, you can appreciate how such an announcement can potentially have certain chilling effects, and that the merits of strict enforcement of such well-intended policies are not necessarily so clear as they might seem on first glance. Having a gentler tone would just keep the technical field less prone to be encrusted with pointless emotional hindrances. Everybody likes to side between Good and Evil, here we should just have Working and Broken. lu PS: I'd advise to try to tone down another notch your vocabulary if you are afraid of getting some penalty for foul language.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Temporary DevRel actions for CoC violations
Does this mean the QA lead finally gets to suspend people who are patently not suited for developing a stable distribution without asking devrel? Because last time we got into the same judge, jury, and executioner argument, which I guess was just sent for the gallows (pun intended). Mind, it's not like I disagree with at least one of the actions that you took recently, but given your surge approach I would like to point out that is not your task judging code quality, and yes that does make me uncomfortable, that you want to pick up the full power at once, and not collaborate with whom should have been involved in the process. Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes flamee...@flameeyes.eu — http://blog.flameeyes.eu/ On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Markos Chandras hwoar...@gentoo.orgwrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hi, It is unfortunate to observe constant bullying, insults and trolling across our public media. Developers have been warned over and over that such behaviour is not acceptable and they should try to behave properly. However, people have ignored such warnings for a very long time. This ends today. The DevRel policy states that: If the issue is deemed critical, the developer in question may have his or her access suspended while a vote takes place. In such situations, the Developer Relations lead may act without a vote of the remaining Developer Relations team; this power is granted by Council. Except in critical situations where immediate action is required, such disciplinary action is determined by members of the Developer Relations project.[1] For me, this problem is critical. Devrel is working on formalizing a new policy, and we will announce news on this soon. In the meantime, to prevent further escalations, I will use my lead powers to request immediate bans whenever I see one of you violate the CoC[2] and ignore the previous warnings. My fellow developers, it's time you finally realize that you are part of a community and you must learn to behave and respect each other even if you have different technical views. We are all people sharing a common interest: Gentoo. [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/policy.xml#doc_chap2 [2] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/coc.xml - -- Regards, Markos Chandras - Gentoo Linux Developer http://dev.gentoo.org/~hwoarang -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux) iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJRwev1XxSAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQzNTVDNDczOUYzRjJEMTRGNDRGMzU2RkMw OUJGNEY1NEMyQkE3RjNDAAoJEAm/T1TCun88CgkQAMPF0Uf8r92+ne4D1CghUQKC ujo2B9UDBx6jOs//XZ6A+az2bWQdBUm+ca6v755VasVMnDmcfHM+0+ibqtPcVMaK XHUMZhkgok9KlWptKqJOdSLlInY2KhHmA0jjktUyByIILgMKcqlL5pVd/jUN6bXU y54nDCgne4zx0fiK0QGV6hzRqCn9RFtxTsW4qIoxRIaM7oME0Zm6LmdFJrFLhpPC 9N9JDuxKdKgmN4njT3sNDa2dQD/InZm+k2ZejLFWZqmlvbo54xQTA2YvjrRa+jTr yJjLTiKvt7pZLZrF7QlzvQULR2966Jlh3wdXhDJRrvvIFgWCZCW7x1VatnLde+z0 fM5cAuBWCVHyKFJUJXlgvzPJVTmBD4mjJUzhI9Co6eJbkauZ1VKzlHzDZPsdDgrw DmuXUfSsll+1tIg8Mjq0CAO8jqvTMQKbdcrthMAvcpWw8FKa+HIddFa60H0sKeXH TmXUPLP+7RwgLIoMtTelrpb5yoJsNeFG9Hlhwhn6Sh68ItYKkeg7Qopi8IhpdmKR x3mrWXXY1k4SdChhQ4vgiQLOGA7KJquZQJ43i1phe7RGvsXHBU9M65/IHNkWxODE ZdwS20di9WoIulvep9P3b0wHsY/zL4HLmQEjPsqriGScZdJM/bcIpu1Dn34ZgXhy 6NvYvqpCfyoXN757mwOs =2cCK -END PGP SIGNATURE-
