Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
> Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking > at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like > things being improved as quickly as possible. FreeBSD is supposed to > be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there > is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second > to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to > keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep > treading water? > > >>> Is this a continuation? > >>> http://groups.google.de/group/linux.gentoo.user/browse_thread/thread/cc31581cbfa4d0e2/a0b4a5d52f0bc112 > >>> > >> Yeah, it's me again. > >> > >> > > > > I have a pretty small desktop system syncing weekly, and 2 others > > syncing from it. Every week I see upgrades in many packages, from > > system to desktop applications. I have 3 stable systems, with > > different roles (a server, a workstation and one in "dumb terminal > > with a web browser" mode), and they're completing 2 years of constant, > > careful and flawless upgrades. > > > > You don't need statistics, or reports, or whatever. This list is the > > living proof of Gentoo existence and the constant flow of information > > regarding it. Another good point is that BGO (bugs.gentoo.org) is also > > active, so, development is constant. > > > > I don't wanna sound rude, but this discussion is almost the same as > > that one, as unproductive and "starving for attention" too (but with a > > nice title), and this is the third edition. Don't get me wrong, but > > what exactly is the point of starting this threads? If you're worried > > about Gentoo slowing down or even dying, don't be, Gentoo is alive and > > kicking. > > > > > I would agree Daniel, > > There is always stuff rollin' in from all the gentoo lists... It's > almost ridiculous how many discussions and threads are going on in > there. In that respect, I completely agree that the Gentoo project is > far from idle. For another snapshot of just how active gentoo is, check > out the IRC channels (#gentoo) and as Daniel said, bugs.gentoo.org. > > "Don't get me wrong, but what exactly is the point of starting this > threads? If you're worried about Gentoo slowing down or even dying, > don't be, Gentoo is alive and kicking." - Daniel > > It's true :) > > Feel free to post any ideas you have to enhance Gentoo's base > functionality to the list though, I think you've roused everyone's > curiosity Grant :D My ideas aren't really important unless they're everyone else's ideas too. I'm sure a lot of us would like to see the same kind of stuff happen. The weird thing is, none of it is happening. This must be due to a lack of devs or dev interest right? I can't understand that. Gentoo should be just getting started at this point, and yet people seem to think it's finished. Sooner or later other distros will accomplish things that make Gentoo seem inferior. Ease of use is a good example, but it's just an example. Advancements will continue and Gentoo will be left in the dust if it doesn't advance also. - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [Fwd: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules]
7v5w7go9ub0o wrote: > My concerns with this, other than my abilities, are: > 1. Showing proper respect to the guy who pioneered the effort to date, > and who may simply be out of town. (This disrespect would be alleviated > if there was an official policy encouraging "volunteer ebuilds".) It's not disrespectful, IMO, to do something that you don't see getting done. Especially since it's less work for another guy. I wouldn't worry about that point. > 2. He won't be there to proofread my work anyway, so therefor my ebuild > would still not get into the disribution. (This could be alleviated if > there was a "designated backup" for each package - someone who could > either temporarily fill, or accept a "volunteer ebuild", and move it > forward. This can happen. I've submitted ebuilds for backuppc-3.0.0, and so have many other people. In fact, the bug for it has several ebuilds that have been submitted but haven't made it into the official tree. I think that particular bug report might not be getting attention from the right people or something. That doesn't mean it isn't worth doing though, because people can still use the ebuild from the bug report. Ideally, a dev would see that, check it out for correctness, and add it to ~arch. Does anybody know how to call attention to a bug report that doesn't seem to have any devs paying attention to it? I think BackupPC is a fine product, and would like to see it in the tree for others to use. I'm using my own ebuild successfully, as are many of the fine folks who have contributed on that bug report. I'd just like my and others' efforts to be something that benefits more of the Gentoo community :) > 3. If a volunteer ebuild isn't proofread, it could contain a bug. (you > don't know me.) I don't think an ebuild would make it into the tree without being checked by a dev, and that's not what I am suggesting. I'm suggesting taking the burden of writing ebuilds off of the devs' shoulders so they can spend more of their time checking. Ebuilds for the majority of packages are pretty simple anyways, especially packages that just need a ./configure && make && make install, so getting a bad bug in the ebuild itself isn't going to be that hard to avoid. -- Randy Barlow http://electronsweatshop.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Network Trouble
On Dec 14, 2007 3:46 PM, Kenneth Prugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Are you using the sky2 driver for your NIC by chance? Nope, I've tried a tulip and a 3COM NIC. Pretty run-of-the-mill. :-) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Network Trouble
On Dec 14, 2007 3:37 PM, Roy Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hilco Wijbenga wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > My Gentoo box can no longer connect to the Internet. I was downloading > > something and the connection just died on me. > I've been experiencing something similar the past few weeks. I found > that if I > kill dhcpcd then restart it then my connection resumes. I don't use dhcpcd as I connect directly to my firewall (with a 192.168.*.* IP). I do use the livecd for testing but its dhcpcd works (I've used it several times before). I've had dhcpcd problems as well but those were easily fixed by downgrading to a previous version. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
Florian Philipp wrote: > > Okay, here it goes: > > I think we could need a better support for binary packages. > There was a thread in here a few months ago about how to offer binary > packages for customers. As far as I remember the problem was (and still > is) that there is no easy way to check the packages for corruption > (trojans, stuff like that). > I know some things are only available as a binary but Gentoo is about compiling your own packages. Binaries are for Redhat, Mandrake and such. I moved away from that for good reason. > In my opinion the end result should be something like a build server > that builds and provides a set of packages with different USE- and > CFLAGS, possibly even accepting automatic requests from clients. > Everything could be digitally signed and distributed over a network. > > Other things to improve? A better documentation on USE-flags. In my > opinion every maintainer should provide as much information as possible > on what exactly a USE-flag changes. At the moment it's the > administrator's responsibility to find this out. Not really a good idea > on production systems if you ask me ... > I would love to see better documentation of the USE flag and what they do exactly. Some of them are so cryptic that even a google search is useless. Alsa is pretty straight forward but what is winpopup for Kopete exactly? Euse -i reports back, "Builds WinPopUp protocol handler" but what the heck is that exactly? I'm thinking a little more info would be really really neat. Make google something that is not needed maybe. > Maybe we could also improve our user-dev relations. I hardly if ever see > a dev or bug wrangler responding to threads in the user list even when > they concern Gentoo as a whole (like this one and its predecessors). > This is something that has been tried before. There just seems to be a few that doesn't think users and devs should be able to talk. Bad thing about -dev mailing list is that it only takes one to ruin it. > I know, all this should be redirected to bugzilla but since they are not > high priority problems and I can't - at least for now - help solving > them, I don't like to bother our had working devs and bug wranglers with > stuff like that. > > > - Florian Philipp > Bugzilla is not the place for this, yet anyway. I would usually say -project but there is very little activity on it so this is as good a place as any I guess. IMHO anyway. Dale :-) :-) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [Fwd: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules]
Randy Barlow wrote: 7v5w7go9ub0o wrote: OTOH, the good news is that a newbie like me can install an outdated package (e.g. Vidalia); resolve dependencies; uninstall the portage version; download and compile the current version from the developer. If you know how to do those things, learning how to make the ebuild that does it isn't that much more to do. Then, instead of just filing the bug report, you can submit an ebuild as a suggested fix with it and help out. Linux works best when the users take part in it! Fair enough! My concerns with this, other than my abilities, are: 1. Showing proper respect to the guy who pioneered the effort to date, and who may simply be out of town. (This disrespect would be alleviated if there was an official policy encouraging "volunteer ebuilds".) 2. He won't be there to proofread my work anyway, so therefor my ebuild would still not get into the disribution. (This could be alleviated if there was a "designated backup" for each package - someone who could either temporarily fill, or accept a "volunteer ebuild", and move it forward. It would also be nice if there was a single, "temporary homeless" list of ebuilds belonging to folks who will be out of town for a while - this would be a "one-stop" page to notify designated backup people, and others who could keep an eye on the distributions.) 3. If a volunteer ebuild isn't proofread, it could contain a bug. (you don't know me.) P.S. A good place to start in writing an e-build for a new version of a package is to use the ebuild for the old version ;) I'll do that; and I'll also look forward to the reply to b.n.'s request. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Network Trouble
On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:59:09 -0800 "Hilco Wijbenga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > My Gentoo box can no longer connect to the Internet. I was downloading > something and the connection just died on me. > > (I have my Gentoo box behind a firewall box [also Gentoo, of course]; > I moved the cable that connects the firewall [to my ADSL modem] > directly to my Gentoo box to make the setup simpler during testing.) > > * I checked the cable and the ADSL modem with my firewall box and > they're ok; > * I replaced my NIC with one from my firewall box and even tried a > different slot; > * I had DHCPCD use the MAC that my firewall box uses (just in case my > ISP cares). > > The NIC is recognised and the right module/driver is loaded. The light > (LAN Link or something like that) on the ADSL modem, however, never > comes on (it does when I move the cable back into my firewall box). > > What could be causing this? Is this a motherboard issue? It seems to > me that at least one of the NICs I tried must be ok. :-) Any advice > and/or ideas would be appreciated. > > Cheers, > Hilco > > P.S. How does one check that a NIC is operational anyway? If I "ping > localhost" does that actually excercise the NIC or is it all software, > inside the kernel? Are you using the sky2 driver for your NIC by chance? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
Florian Philipp ha scritto: > Other things to improve? A better documentation on USE-flags. In my > opinion every maintainer should provide as much information as possible > on what exactly a USE-flag changes. At the moment it's the > administrator's responsibility to find this out. Not really a good idea > on production systems if you ask me ... +1 m. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Network Trouble
Hilco Wijbenga wrote: > Hi all, > > My Gentoo box can no longer connect to the Internet. I was downloading > something and the connection just died on me. > > Howdy, I've been experiencing something similar the past few weeks. I found that if I kill dhcpcd then restart it then my connection resumes. royw-gentoo linux # dhcpcd -k eth0 royw-gentoo linux # dhcpcd eth0 HTH, Roy -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: Documentation about ebuilds (was: [Fwd: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules])
On Dec 14, 2007 6:15 PM, b.n. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Randy Barlow ha scritto: > > 7v5w7go9ub0o wrote: > >> OTOH, the good news is that a newbie like me can install an outdated > >> package (e.g. Vidalia); resolve dependencies; uninstall the portage > >> version; download and compile the current version from the developer. > > > > If you know how to do those things, learning how to make the ebuild that > > does it isn't that much more to do. Then, instead of just filing the > > bug report, you can submit an ebuild as a suggested fix with it and help > > out. Linux works best when the users take part in it! > > > > P.S. A good place to start in writing an e-build for a new version of a > > package is to use the ebuild for the old version ;) > > Can someone link a good tutorial for writing ebuilds? > > I know, there is the official Gentoo documentation, but last time I > checked, I found it pretty technical and, even if holy bible as a > reference, doesn't seem friendly for people who want to start hacking > ebuilds. > > m. > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > > Here is one place: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml Here is another one: http://devmanual.gentoo.org/ And yet another one: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Create_an_Updated_Ebuild Use the one you like best. I personally like the second one.
Re: Documentation about ebuilds (was: [Fwd: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules])
Randy Barlow ha scritto: > 7v5w7go9ub0o wrote: >> OTOH, the good news is that a newbie like me can install an outdated >> package (e.g. Vidalia); resolve dependencies; uninstall the portage >> version; download and compile the current version from the developer. > > If you know how to do those things, learning how to make the ebuild that > does it isn't that much more to do. Then, instead of just filing the > bug report, you can submit an ebuild as a suggested fix with it and help > out. Linux works best when the users take part in it! > > P.S. A good place to start in writing an e-build for a new version of a > package is to use the ebuild for the old version ;) Can someone link a good tutorial for writing ebuilds? I know, there is the official Gentoo documentation, but last time I checked, I found it pretty technical and, even if holy bible as a reference, doesn't seem friendly for people who want to start hacking ebuilds. m. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
Grant ha scritto: >>> Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking >>> at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like >>> things being improved as quickly as possible. >> Where do you find it is slowed? > > I don't have statistics to support this, but it seems obvious to me > that things have slowed way down from the pace they used to be on. In > the beginning, it felt to me like the devs were building an extremely > powerful and flexible foundation upon which all kinds of amazing > things were going to be built. The foundation is still good but where > are the skyscrapers? I think you understood Gentoo wrong. Gentoo IS a foundation and, AFAIK, has never been meant to be something else. Gentoo provides an extremly flexible foundation to build the system exactly as you like. That's why it is different. Ubuntu,Fedora,Suse,Debian are *distros*: they provide a more or less ready-to-go system with certain quirks, attitudes, goodies and so on, on a silver plate. Gentoo instead provides a way to put up and maintain the system as you like. You want skyscrapers? Gentoo gives you what you need to build them, but needs not to care about them. What you want is probably a Gentoo-derived distro, not Gentoo itself. Have you considered looking at Sabayon? m. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
James ha scritto: > I offered to take over the maintenance of the package and web installation > page, and was turned down (probable by some punk under the age of 20) > Sad. Can you link the thread? m. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 13:58 -0600, Christopher Dale wrote: > > Feel free to post any ideas you have to enhance Gentoo's base > functionality to the list though, I think you've roused everyone's > curiosity Grant :D > > Christopher > > Okay, here it goes: I think we could need a better support for binary packages. There was a thread in here a few months ago about how to offer binary packages for customers. As far as I remember the problem was (and still is) that there is no easy way to check the packages for corruption (trojans, stuff like that). In my opinion the end result should be something like a build server that builds and provides a set of packages with different USE- and CFLAGS, possibly even accepting automatic requests from clients. Everything could be digitally signed and distributed over a network. Other things to improve? A better documentation on USE-flags. In my opinion every maintainer should provide as much information as possible on what exactly a USE-flag changes. At the moment it's the administrator's responsibility to find this out. Not really a good idea on production systems if you ask me ... Maybe we could also improve our user-dev relations. I hardly if ever see a dev or bug wrangler responding to threads in the user list even when they concern Gentoo as a whole (like this one and its predecessors). I know, all this should be redirected to bugzilla but since they are not high priority problems and I can't - at least for now - help solving them, I don't like to bother our had working devs and bug wranglers with stuff like that. - Florian Philipp signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
Grant wrote: > Let me in on that. What can I do too? Find bugs on b.g.o. and help out! -- Randy Barlow http://electronsweatshop.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT:hardware sniffer equipment
James wrote: COST is the key factor. Why pay somebody for something, when you can get equivalent functionality for very few dollars. A flat hub is all I need (want).. With a flat hub and a portable, you can mix in any amount of target software and do many things with a flat but and a linux device. I'd consider an embedded (linux) board with a few ports, if they are or can be setup as a flat hub. Thanks for your input, Cost is pretty low these days. $300 for 10/100 24 port with vlans and port mirroring. http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/pwcnt_3424?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04 Not sure the throughput you're dealing with, but I had issues with anything over 15-20 mb/s being moved down to half duplex. If you're just messing about home or in a low bandwidth office this doesn't matter so much. I've got two 5234's (same thing with GigE and bigger backplane) I'd let go for $500 + shipping if you or anyone else is interested. :-) kashani -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [Fwd: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules]
7v5w7go9ub0o wrote: > OTOH, the good news is that a newbie like me can install an outdated > package (e.g. Vidalia); resolve dependencies; uninstall the portage > version; download and compile the current version from the developer. If you know how to do those things, learning how to make the ebuild that does it isn't that much more to do. Then, instead of just filing the bug report, you can submit an ebuild as a suggested fix with it and help out. Linux works best when the users take part in it! P.S. A good place to start in writing an e-build for a new version of a package is to use the ebuild for the old version ;) -- Randy Barlow http://electronsweatshop.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
Grant wrote: Gentoo's foundation is great. I can't think of any major changes that should to happen to it. But Gentoo is at this point *only* a foundation. It needs more (removable) layers. FreeBSD created extra layers on its own foundation and called the result PC-BSD which is aimed at the make-it-easy crowd. PC-BSD is gaining momentum quickly and that will benefit FreeBSD greatly. I repeat, that will benefit FreeBSD greatly. That's exactly the kind of thing Gentoo should be doing. Removable layers for ease of use, removable layers for server deployment, removable layers for anything and everything. That's moving forward. In regards to BSD, it died the day Linux 2.4 was released. I deal with it on a daily basis as an admin and take great joy at plotting its total replacement with Linux, any Linux. It's good to see BSD getting off it's insular and inbred ass and doing something like PC-BSD. I'm sure it'll be successful in keeping the faithful from having to run Linux on their desktops, but I don't see it pulling many newer users in when you can run Ubuntu, Gentoo, or half a dozen other systems. However I'm extra grumpy today and the retarded legacy BSD4 servers are responsible. Maybe PC-BSD is more interesting than doing things Linux distros have been doing since they began. Is it? kashani -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[Fwd: Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules]
Volunteer to pick up part of the load, I guess - something that I, as a newbie, am reluctant to do - but I guess I will if filezilla continues to languish. There is indeed an issue; e.g. TOR, a popular desktop package, is a release behind; Vidalia, is two releases behind - one a security release. Probably this is the consequence of a busy maintainer, but you'd think someone would pick up the slack (and yes, I've already filed a bugzilla security report on Vidalia). OTOH, the good news is that a newbie like me can install an outdated package (e.g. Vidalia); resolve dependencies; uninstall the portage version; download and compile the current version from the developer. --- Begin Message --- > > Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking > > at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like > > things being improved as quickly as possible. FreeBSD is supposed to > > be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there > > is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second > > to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to > > keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep > > treading water? > > > > - Grant > > I love gentoo and can't settle for anything else. What can I do to > make sure development doesn't stop? Let me in on that. What can I do too? - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list --- End Message ---
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
On Freitag, 14. Dezember 2007, Grant wrote: > > > Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking > > > at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like > > > things being improved as quickly as possible. > > > > Where do you find it is slowed? > > I don't have statistics to support this, but it seems obvious to me > that things have slowed way down from the pace they used to be on. In > the beginning, it felt to me like the devs were building an extremely > powerful and flexible foundation upon which all kinds of amazing > things were going to be built. The foundation is still good but where > are the skyscrapers? Also the Gentoo Weekly Newsletter not being > published in 2 months is an easy-to-analyze indication of slowage. > no, it is just any indication that nobody wants to wade trought thousands of messages and stupid forum posting. OF COURSE gentoo was 'fast' at the beginning. When there is nothing, everything added is a huge step forward. If you are using a ~arch system, you'll see douzends of new packages every single day. Is that slow? And FreeBSD: because of some needed kernel changes that are known for literally years but have not been made so far, FreeBSD on AMD64 has no nvidia support. So much about moving 'fast'. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Kernel schedulers
On Freitag, 14. Dezember 2007, Mick wrote: > On Thursday 13 December 2007, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: > > On Donnerstag, 13. Dezember 2007, Jason Carson wrote: > > > I was reading this article (http://lwn.net/Articles/114770/) which > > > says... > > > > > > AS (Anticipatory Scheduler) still seems to be better for desktop > > > systems and IDE disks > > > > > > ... I have a server, not a desktop system but am using an IDE disk so > > > which scheduler is better for a server. Should I stay with anticipatory > > > because I am using an IDE disk or switch to something else because my > > > system is a server? > > > > this article is acient. > > > > Nowadays CFQ and deadline are the best choices. CFQ is the best choice > > for most desktops and most servers and for some servers and some selected > > desktops deadline is the best choice. > > > > Why not built all three and switch between them with the apropriate > > kernel command line. That way you can easily test which one is the best > > for you. > > How would you go about testing each? as Daniel Pielmeier wrote here: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /usr/src/linux/Documentation/block/switching-sched.txt just try the different schedulers while doing your daily stuff and the one that works best, is the one you'll use in the future. For me CFQ worked best. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
Daniel da Veiga wrote: > On Dec 14, 2007 5:30 PM, Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like things being improved as quickly as possible. FreeBSD is supposed to be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep treading water? >>> Is this a continuation? >>> http://groups.google.de/group/linux.gentoo.user/browse_thread/thread/cc31581cbfa4d0e2/a0b4a5d52f0bc112 >>> >> Yeah, it's me again. >> >> > > I have a pretty small desktop system syncing weekly, and 2 others > syncing from it. Every week I see upgrades in many packages, from > system to desktop applications. I have 3 stable systems, with > different roles (a server, a workstation and one in "dumb terminal > with a web browser" mode), and they're completing 2 years of constant, > careful and flawless upgrades. > > You don't need statistics, or reports, or whatever. This list is the > living proof of Gentoo existence and the constant flow of information > regarding it. Another good point is that BGO (bugs.gentoo.org) is also > active, so, development is constant. > > I don't wanna sound rude, but this discussion is almost the same as > that one, as unproductive and "starving for attention" too (but with a > nice title), and this is the third edition. Don't get me wrong, but > what exactly is the point of starting this threads? If you're worried > about Gentoo slowing down or even dying, don't be, Gentoo is alive and > kicking. > > I would agree Daniel, There is always stuff rollin' in from all the gentoo lists... It's almost ridiculous how many discussions and threads are going on in there. In that respect, I completely agree that the Gentoo project is far from idle. For another snapshot of just how active gentoo is, check out the IRC channels (#gentoo) and as Daniel said, bugs.gentoo.org. "Don't get me wrong, but what exactly is the point of starting this threads? If you're worried about Gentoo slowing down or even dying, don't be, Gentoo is alive and kicking." - Daniel It's true :) Feel free to post any ideas you have to enhance Gentoo's base functionality to the list though, I think you've roused everyone's curiosity Grant :D Christopher -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Rules
Grant gmail.com> writes: > > Otherwise, I'm interested in what your definition of "forward" is. > How about anything? More than nothing. I'd agree with this. I think gentoo is having growing pains in directions the (gentoo) pundits are not really interested in. Take for example JAVA. IMHO java going open source is the biggest thing to hit linux for some time now. Eclipse is the defacto development environment of the future for many, many things. Sure as an old timer, I can use the CLI pretty well, but Eclipse Europa (3.3) has been out for a while and yet, nothing in Gentoo. I stumbled across a bug where they devs are thinking about deprecating JFFNMS becuse it is broken. JFFNMS is the best network management package available to opensource (period), yet it tumbles from dev to dev to obscurity? I offered to take over the maintenance of the package and web installation page, and was turned down (probable by some punk under the age of 20) As a 47 year old computer scientist, this the what turns off so many people form helping gentoo.. That said, if you have the stomach, becoming a dev or taking care of just a few niche packages would go a long way to improving gentoo. (btw) I have figured out the trivial things with jffnms and the install doc and play to just build an overlay and maintain my own how to page. I'm tired of the snotty attitude of some the the devs. They ask everyone to participate in bugday, but refuse to let somebody manage a package they want to deprecate? stupid, real stupid. that is exactly what kills gentoo, imho. James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
> > Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking > > at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like > > things being improved as quickly as possible. FreeBSD is supposed to > > be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there > > is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second > > to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to > > keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep > > treading water? > > > > - Grant > > I love gentoo and can't settle for anything else. What can I do to > make sure development doesn't stop? Let me in on that. What can I do too? - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
On Dec 14, 2007 5:30 PM, Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking > > > at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like > > > things being improved as quickly as possible. FreeBSD is supposed to > > > be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there > > > is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second > > > to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to > > > keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep > > > treading water? > > > > Is this a continuation? > > http://groups.google.de/group/linux.gentoo.user/browse_thread/thread/cc31581cbfa4d0e2/a0b4a5d52f0bc112 > > Yeah, it's me again. > I have a pretty small desktop system syncing weekly, and 2 others syncing from it. Every week I see upgrades in many packages, from system to desktop applications. I have 3 stable systems, with different roles (a server, a workstation and one in "dumb terminal with a web browser" mode), and they're completing 2 years of constant, careful and flawless upgrades. You don't need statistics, or reports, or whatever. This list is the living proof of Gentoo existence and the constant flow of information regarding it. Another good point is that BGO (bugs.gentoo.org) is also active, so, development is constant. I don't wanna sound rude, but this discussion is almost the same as that one, as unproductive and "starving for attention" too (but with a nice title), and this is the third edition. Don't get me wrong, but what exactly is the point of starting this threads? If you're worried about Gentoo slowing down or even dying, don't be, Gentoo is alive and kicking. -- Daniel da Veiga Filosofia de TI: Programadores de verdade consideram o conceito "o que você vê é o que você tem" tão ruim em editores de texto quanto em mulheres. Não, o programador de verdade quer um editor de texto do estilo "você pediu, você levou" - complicado, indecifrável, poderoso, impiedoso, perigoso. ��í¢ï¿½z� ��(��&j)b� b�
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 07:48:12 -0800 Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking > at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like > things being improved as quickly as possible. FreeBSD is supposed to > be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there > is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second > to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to > keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep > treading water? > > - Grant I love gentoo and can't settle for anything else. What can I do to make sure development doesn't stop? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] kernel configuration problems
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:32:06 -0500 Jeff Cranmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am presently having problems compiling suspend2 kernel 2.6.22. > It compiles with genkernel, but if I try to use make and customise a > special kernel, it will not find my hard drive. The error message > reports that the ide-cdrom on hda is the only drive present. > > The computer is a Toshiba L45-7409 laptop. > Can anyone offer me any guidance as to which kernel options to > engage, whether to use modules or compiled-in, etc. > > Thanks > > Jeff Is the IDE cdrom drive on the same controller as the hard drive? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT:hardware sniffer equipment
James wrote: > Have you set one up to sniff and remotely display the result on a workstaion > before? No, I definitely haven't done anything like that. Mine is just a router/WAP/firewall/QoS thing with some fun port forwarding rules. Funny that it's default firmware doesn't let you forward outside port 8080 to an inside 80. I know that the level of mathematical prowess necessary for such a packet transformation is exceedingly amazing, but... OpenWRT is cool :) What I think you could do in OpenWRT is perhaps to set up an IPTables Rule that sends all packets through one of it's 5 ports on the back, and then you could plug a machine in there to log/process it. This is not something I have done, it's just a suggestion for you to ponder. It may or may not be possible, I don't know... -- Randy Barlow http://electronsweatshop.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
> > Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking > > at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like > > things being improved as quickly as possible. FreeBSD is supposed to > > be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there > > is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second > > to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to > > keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep > > treading water? > > Is this a continuation? > http://groups.google.de/group/linux.gentoo.user/browse_thread/thread/cc31581cbfa4d0e2/a0b4a5d52f0bc112 Yeah, it's me again. > Otherwise, I'm interested in what your definition of "forward" is. How about anything? More than nothing. > In that regard, I'm conservative: The core of Gentoo for me is to > provide an environment for me to get productive. My demands are > sometimes specific, thus Gentoo suits fine. Personally, I don't have > much interest in any major changes regarding Gentoo. Gentoo's foundation is great. I can't think of any major changes that should to happen to it. But Gentoo is at this point *only* a foundation. It needs more (removable) layers. FreeBSD created extra layers on its own foundation and called the result PC-BSD which is aimed at the make-it-easy crowd. PC-BSD is gaining momentum quickly and that will benefit FreeBSD greatly. I repeat, that will benefit FreeBSD greatly. That's exactly the kind of thing Gentoo should be doing. Removable layers for ease of use, removable layers for server deployment, removable layers for anything and everything. That's moving forward. - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: OT:hardware sniffer equipment
Randy Barlow electronsweatshop.com> writes: > > I'd consider an embedded (linux) board with a few ports, if they > > are or can be setup as a flat hub. > This seems like something that you should be able to do with OpenWRT and > a Linksys WRT54Gl... Yep, that device was on the short list. I have to find out the ethernet chipset it used to determine if they switched (most) likely or not and if they are switched whether one can be setup up to sniff. I'm just not that familiar with the wrt54g other than what I have read casually. Have you set one up to sniff and remotely display the result on a workstaion before? James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT:hardware sniffer equipment
James wrote: > COST is the key factor. Why pay somebody for something, when you can get > equivalient functionality for very few dollars. A flat hub is all > I need (want).. With a flat hub and a portable, you can mix in > any amount of target software and do many things with a flat but > and a linux device. > > I'd consider an embedded (linux) board with a few ports, if they > are or can be setup as a flat hub. This seems like something that you should be able to do with OpenWRT and a Linksys WRT54Gl... -- Randy Barlow http://electronsweatshop.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
Hi, On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 07:48:12 -0800 Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking > at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like > things being improved as quickly as possible. FreeBSD is supposed to > be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there > is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second > to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to > keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep > treading water? Is this a continuation? http://groups.google.de/group/linux.gentoo.user/browse_thread/thread/cc31581cbfa4d0e2/a0b4a5d52f0bc112 Otherwise, I'm interested in what your definition of "forward" is. In that regard, I'm conservative: The core of Gentoo for me is to provide an environment for me to get productive. My demands are sometimes specific, thus Gentoo suits fine. Personally, I don't have much interest in any major changes regarding Gentoo. -hwh -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
> > Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking > > at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like > > things being improved as quickly as possible. > > Where do you find it is slowed? I don't have statistics to support this, but it seems obvious to me that things have slowed way down from the pace they used to be on. In the beginning, it felt to me like the devs were building an extremely powerful and flexible foundation upon which all kinds of amazing things were going to be built. The foundation is still good but where are the skyscrapers? Also the Gentoo Weekly Newsletter not being published in 2 months is an easy-to-analyze indication of slowage. > > FreeBSD is supposed to > > be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there > > is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second > > to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to > > keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep > > treading water? > > What do you mean, practically? That's a very good question. I think all kinds of great things "should" be built upon the Gentoo foundation. Although I doubt I'll ever use it, the graphical installer is a good example. Different layers going in different directions could be built on top of Gentoo's foundation. To me, it seems flexible enough to allow for anything. - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Kernel schedulers
On Thursday 13 December 2007, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: > On Donnerstag, 13. Dezember 2007, Jason Carson wrote: > > I was reading this article (http://lwn.net/Articles/114770/) which > > says... > > > > AS (Anticipatory Scheduler) still seems to be better for desktop systems > > and IDE disks > > > > ... I have a server, not a desktop system but am using an IDE disk so > > which scheduler is better for a server. Should I stay with anticipatory > > because I am using an IDE disk or switch to something else because my > > system is a server? > > this article is acient. > > Nowadays CFQ and deadline are the best choices. CFQ is the best choice for > most desktops and most servers and for some servers and some selected > desktops deadline is the best choice. > > Why not built all three and switch between them with the apropriate kernel > command line. That way you can easily test which one is the best for you. How would you go about testing each? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Kernel schedulers
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:39:11 -0500 "Andrey Falko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You probably want to use CFQ as it is currently the fastest It is? I though anticipatory was still considered the fastest. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
Grant ha scritto: > Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking > at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like > things being improved as quickly as possible. Where do you find it is slowed? > FreeBSD is supposed to > be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there > is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second > to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to > keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep > treading water? What do you mean, practically? m. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] [OT] Network Trouble
Hi all, My Gentoo box can no longer connect to the Internet. I was downloading something and the connection just died on me. (I have my Gentoo box behind a firewall box [also Gentoo, of course]; I moved the cable that connects the firewall [to my ADSL modem] directly to my Gentoo box to make the setup simpler during testing.) * I checked the cable and the ADSL modem with my firewall box and they're ok; * I replaced my NIC with one from my firewall box and even tried a different slot; * I had DHCPCD use the MAC that my firewall box uses (just in case my ISP cares). The NIC is recognised and the right module/driver is loaded. The light (LAN Link or something like that) on the ADSL modem, however, never comes on (it does when I move the cable back into my firewall box). What could be causing this? Is this a motherboard issue? It seems to me that at least one of the NICs I tried must be ok. :-) Any advice and/or ideas would be appreciated. Cheers, Hilco P.S. How does one check that a NIC is operational anyway? If I "ping localhost" does that actually excercise the NIC or is it all software, inside the kernel? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] kernel configuration problems
Thanks guys. I got it figured out last night with the help of someone on Gentoo IRC help. The drivers were compiled as modules, which only works if you have an initial ramdisk. Once I compiled the correct SATA driver into the kernel, it found the drive and allowed me to boot. Jeff -Original Message- >From: Alan McKinnon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Dec 14, 2007 8:27 AM >To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org >Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] kernel configuration problems > >On Friday 14 December 2007, Jeff Cranmer wrote: >> I am presently having problems compiling suspend2 kernel 2.6.22. >> It compiles with genkernel, but if I try to use make and customise a >> special kernel, it will not find my hard drive. The error message >> reports that the ide-cdrom on hda is the only drive present. >> >> The computer is a Toshiba L45-7409 laptop. >> Can anyone offer me any guidance as to which kernel options to >> engage, whether to use modules or compiled-in, etc. > >In all likelyhood this is the ata/libata thingy. > >Disable generic IDE/SCSI/SATA drivers and enable drivers specific to >your hardware. Read the help text for these items too. > >alan > >-- >Optimists say the glass is half full, >Pessimists say the glass is half empty, >Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be? > >Alan McKinnon >alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za >+27 82, double three seven, one nine three five >-- >[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Gentoo Rules
Lately I've been shopping around for other distros as well as looking at *BSD. Gentoo development seems to have slowed way down and I like things being improved as quickly as possible. FreeBSD is supposed to be the closest relation, but even that won't do. I don't think there is anything as satisfying as Gentoo out there. The concept is second to none, the execution of that concept is fantastic, but it needs to keep moving forward. What is the next step? Or should we keep treading water? - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: OT:hardware sniffer equipment
Etaoin Shrdlu unlimitedmail.org> writes: > Of course, we're not talking of low-end switches here. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_mirroring > Alternatively, although this is not exactly the same thing, you might > want to consider using a network tap COST is the key factor. Why pay somebody for something, when you can get equivalient functionality for very few dollars. A flat hub is all I need (want).. With a flat hub and a portable, you can mix in any amount of target software and do many things with a flat but and a linux device. I'd consider an embedded (linux) board with a few ports, if they are or can be setup as a flat hub. Thanks for your input, James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Kernel schedulers
Daniel Pielmeier googlemail.com> writes: > Take a look in the kernel docs. It is not that difficult. It should be > under Documentation/block/switching-sched.txt > You can build the schedulers as module or directly in the kernel, > maybe you need to load the module before when using them as modules. Thanks Daniel.. James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Kernel schedulers
2007/12/14, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hemmann, Volker Armin tu-clausthal.de> writes: > > > > Nowadays CFQ and deadline are the best choices. > > > Why not built all three and switch between them with the apropriate kernel > > command line. That way you can easily test which one is the best for you. > > Hello Hemmann, > > This sounds interesting. > > Are you saying build all 3 as modules? (I've never tried this.) > > And then use cli to swithch between these three for dynamic > testing without rebooting? (seems like a very cool idea)... > > > Could you share some command line syntax on exactly what you are suggesting? > or a simple script, if that is easier...? > > Any wikis or further reading along these lines would be of keen interest > to me. I'd be real interested to learn what kernel parameters for live > performance tuning, one can dynamically pass to a running kernel. > > > curiously, > James Take a look in the kernel docs. It is not that difficult. It should be under Documentation/block/switching-sched.txt You can build the schedulers as module or directly in the kernel, maybe you need to load the module before when using them as modules. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Creating a restricted user
> > then can't log in via GDM. Makes sense. I want the user to be able > > to log in via GDM but not via ssh. Is that configured in ssh? > > Yes, you can configure that in SSH. There are the > > DenyUsers > DenyGroups > > keywords for sshd_config. > > Alexander Thanks Alexander. Even though I'm not running sshd I added 'DenyUsers newuser' just in case. - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Creating a restricted user
> > I'd like to create a really restricted user on my laptop. I don't > > want the user to be able to do much of anything but browse the web, > > use skype, and maybe look at photos on a CD or something. I did this: > > > > useradd -m -G users,audio,cdrom -s /sbin/nologin newuser > > > > How does that look? I've noticed when adding this kind of a user in > > the past they are able to look at files all around the system that I'd > > prefer they can't. Is there a good method for restricting that? > > Maybe remove the users group? Is a weak password OK with this setup > > since there's no shell access? > > Apparently -s /sbin/nologin wasn't such a good idea since the user > then can't log in via GDM. Makes sense. I want the user to be able > to log in via GDM but not via ssh. Is that configured in ssh? > > - Grant I changed the new user's shell like 'chsh -s /bin/bash' and I can now log in in the terminal but not in gdm. Logging in with gdm works fine with my user. Does anyone know what the problem might be there? - Grant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT:hardware sniffer equipment
On Friday 14 December 2007, James wrote: > Hello, > > I have been using flat hubs (netgear 104EN is my favorite) for some > time to sniff out ethernet traffic. Now days, it's difficult to find > flat hubs for this purpose, that are new. Ideally I like to find a > 10/100/1000 flat hub for sniffing, but I'd settle for some new 10/100 > devices. I really like the metal cases on netgear's hubs, but, I'm > most open to other vendors that still manufacture these devices. Not sure whether this applies to your setup, but there are switches where a port con be configured to "mirror" all the traffic passing through the switch, so that sniffers or IDSs can be attached to that port (the cisco term is SPAN). Of course, we're not talking of low-end switches here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_mirroring Alternatively, although this is not exactly the same thing, you might want to consider using a network tap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_tap), if your network has a suitable place to attach it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] kernel configuration problems
On Friday 14 December 2007, Jeff Cranmer wrote: > I am presently having problems compiling suspend2 kernel 2.6.22. > It compiles with genkernel, but if I try to use make and customise a > special kernel, it will not find my hard drive. The error message > reports that the ide-cdrom on hda is the only drive present. > > The computer is a Toshiba L45-7409 laptop. > Can anyone offer me any guidance as to which kernel options to > engage, whether to use modules or compiled-in, etc. In all likelyhood this is the ata/libata thingy. Disable generic IDE/SCSI/SATA drivers and enable drivers specific to your hardware. Read the help text for these items too. alan -- Optimists say the glass is half full, Pessimists say the glass is half empty, Developers say wtf is the glass twice as big as it needs to be? Alan McKinnon alan at linuxholdings dot co dot za +27 82, double three seven, one nine three five -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] OT:hardware sniffer equipment
Hello, I have been using flat hubs (netgear 104EN is my favorite) for some time to sniff out ethernet traffic. Now days, it's difficult to find flat hubs for this purpose, that are new. Ideally I like to find a 10/100/1000 flat hub for sniffing, but I'd settle for some new 10/100 devices. I really like the metal cases on netgear's hubs, but, I'm most open to other vendors that still manufacture these devices. If this (widened search) does not produce anything, I'd be curious as to any recommendations for a ethernet chipset that would be suitable for building a 10/100/1000 flat hub (enhanced for sniffing). I googled for a while yesterday, but, the devices I found listed as hubs were either used or it was not really clear that indeed they were actually flat hubs and not cheap switches. James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Kernel schedulers
Hemmann, Volker Armin tu-clausthal.de> writes: > Nowadays CFQ and deadline are the best choices. > Why not built all three and switch between them with the apropriate kernel > command line. That way you can easily test which one is the best for you. Hello Hemmann, This sounds interesting. Are you saying build all 3 as modules? (I've never tried this.) And then use cli to swithch between these three for dynamic testing without rebooting? (seems like a very cool idea)... Could you share some command line syntax on exactly what you are suggesting? or a simple script, if that is easier...? Any wikis or further reading along these lines would be of keen interest to me. I'd be real interested to learn what kernel parameters for live performance tuning, one can dynamically pass to a running kernel. curiously, James -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Creating a restricted user
Grant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > then can't log in via GDM. Makes sense. I want the user to be able > to log in via GDM but not via ssh. Is that configured in ssh? Yes, you can configure that in SSH. There are the DenyUsers DenyGroups keywords for sshd_config. Alexander -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
