Re: [gentoo-user] Re: X11 start breaks
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 3:29 PM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/14/2009 01:08 PM, GerhardosG wrote: /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc: line 61: xterm: command not found /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc: line 62: exec: xterm: not found ^^ That last line is the problem this time, very different from your previous post. I don't know why X can't fine xterm. Do you have /usr/bin/xterm on your machine? If not, install x11-terms/xterm-250 and try startx again. I bought a new hard drive and was just installing Gentoo from scratch for the first time in 5 years, and I ran into this problem. I'm guessing here, but I think my problem was with the current version of The X Server Configuration HOWTO, the document suggests installing the xorg-xserver package instead of the xorg-x11 meta-package because: Note: You could install the xorg-x11 metapackage instead of the more lightweight xorg-server. Functionally, xorg-x11 and xorg-server are the same. However, xorg-x11 brings in many more packages that you probably don't need, such as a huge assortment of fonts in many different languages. They're not necessary for a working desktop. However, it also does not install twm, xclock, or xterm so I was unable to verify that X was actually working until I installed xterm as suggested in this thread. Regards, ds
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Monday 08 February 2010 21:34:01 Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Valmor de Almeida val.gen...@gmail.com wrote: Mark Knecht wrote: [snip] This has been helpful for me. I'm glad Valmor is getting better results also. [snip] These 4k-sector drives can be problematic when upgrading older computers. For instance, my laptop BIOS would not boot from the toshiba drive I mentioned earlier. However when used as an external usb drive, I could boot gentoo. Since I have been using this drive as backup storage I did not investigate the reason for the lower speed. I am happy to get a factor of 8 in speed up now after you did the research :) Thanks for your postings. Thanks for the info everyone, but do you understand the agony I am now suffering at the fact that all disk in my system (including all parts of my RAID5) are starting on sector 63 and I don't have sufficient free space (or free time) to repartition them? :) I am really curious if there are any gains to be made on my own system... Next time I partition I will definitely pay attention to this, and feel foolish that I didn't pay attention before. Thanks. I have similar disks in my new system and was lucky that I was still in the testing phase and hadn't filled the disks yet. After changing the partitions to start at sector 64, the creation of the RAID-5 set went from around 22 hours to 9 hours. I also get a much higher throughput (in the range of at least 4 times faster), so I would recommend doing the change if you can. I now only need to figure out the best way to configure LVM over this to get the best performance from it. Does anyone know of a decent way of figuring this out? I got 6 disks in Raid-5. Thanks, Joost Roeleveld
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 10:20:47PM +, Alan Mackenzie wrote However, I'm now trying to get X up and running. The X Server Configuration HOWTO, section 3. Configuring Xorg says: Hal comes with many premade device rules, also called policies. These policy files are available in /usr/../policy. Just find a few that suit your needs most closely and copy them to /etc/ For example, to get a basic working keyboard/mouse combination, you could copy the following files... /usr/.../10-input-policy.fdi /usr/.../10-x11-input.fdi . Am I the only person that finds this semantic gibberish? Is there any explanation somewhere of what a policy aka device rule is? What is the semantic significance of a device rule? What does it mean, to rule a device, or what sort of restrictions are being placed on this device? My solution to simplify Gentoo... waltd...@d531 ~ $ cat /etc/portage/package.mask sys-libs/pam sys-apps/dbus sys-apps/hal You'll have to do a manual depclean (very carefully) and revdep-rebuild, but it's worth the effort to purify your Gentoo system. Simpler than that, just add -hal to xorg stuff in package.use and then run emerge -uvDNa world. It will rebuild a couple things, maybe even just xorg, then everything is back to the old way. This allows hal to be their for other things where it does work but it disables it where it doesn't work. I'm not saying your way won't work but I think mine is easier. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 00:20:47 Alan Mackenzie wrote: Hi, Gentoo! I've just got a sparkling new installation of Gentoo on my new PC. It only took me ~5 hours, mainly because I'd already configured the kernel in a trial run. :-) However, I'm now trying to get X up and running. The X Server Configuration HOWTO, section 3. Configuring Xorg says: Hal comes with many premade device rules, also called policies. These policy files are available in /usr/../policy. Just find a few that suit your needs most closely and copy them to /etc/ For example, to get a basic working keyboard/mouse combination, you could copy the following files... /usr/.../10-input-policy.fdi /usr/.../10-x11-input.fdi . Am I the only person that finds this semantic gibberish? No, you are not the only one. There's a whole crowd of us here already, you can join our club. We even have a fearless leader and his name is Dale. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:17:08 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: My solution to simplify Gentoo... waltd...@d531 ~ $ cat /etc/portage/package.mask sys-libs/pam sys-apps/dbus sys-apps/hal That's as much crippling as simplifying. You can do without pam and hal by setting appropriate USE flags (I run pam-free here by doing just that) but D-Bus provides a standard way for applications to communicate with one another and removing it can stop your desktop working as it should. -- Neil Bothwick WINDOWS: Will Install Needless Data On Whole System signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 02:16:15AM -0600, Dale wrote: Simpler than that, just add -hal to xorg stuff in package.use and then run emerge -uvDNa world. It will rebuild a couple things, maybe even just xorg, then everything is back to the old way. This allows hal to be their for other things where it does work but it disables it where it doesn't work. Don't you also need to find yourself a working xorg.conf? I seem to be under the impression that the OP has a recently built new system. Xorg -configure usually gives a working configuration file. Unless you have nonstandard input devices or if you need to tweak the settings for graphics and display. The good thing is: you only need to set it up once and forget about it. The bad thing is: you only set it up once and forget about it, so the next time you install a new system you have to read the man page again. Cheers, W -- Willie W. Wong ww...@math.princeton.edu Data aequatione quotcunque fluentes quantitae involvente fluxiones invenire et vice versa ~~~ I. Newton
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 02:16:15AM -0600, Dale wrote: Simpler than that, just add -hal to xorg stuff in package.use and then run emerge -uvDNa world. It will rebuild a couple things, maybe even just xorg, then everything is back to the old way. This allows hal to be their for other things where it does work but it disables it where it doesn't work. Don't you also need to find yourself a working xorg.conf? I seem to be under the impression that the OP has a recently built new system. Xorg -configure usually gives a working configuration file. Unless you have nonstandard input devices or if you need to tweak the settings for graphics and display. The good thing is: you only need to set it up once and forget about it. The bad thing is: you only set it up once and forget about it, so the next time you install a new system you have to read the man page again. Cheers, W Most likely he will need to generate a xorg.conf. There is a example one available as well. I'm hoping the Gentoo install docs still tell how to generate a xorg.conf tho. Surely they didn't remove that. I doubt he was installing Gentoo without reading the docs. Maybe the OP will post back what is going on shortly. I also got to start looking at last names instead of just first names. We have one more Alan on the list. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Hi, Iain, On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 09:09:14AM +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote: On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 22:20 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote: [snip to the crux:] Can this new-style fragmented XML configuration do anything that a good old-fashioned, human-readable and compact xorg.conf can't? If so, what? What am I missing here? presumably you're missing the previous conversation on this topic: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/225223/focus=225223 Yes, indeed. I've read up about half of it now. Have I understood correctly, that if I carry on with this HAL, I need to use a heavyweight window manager (such as Gnome) to be able to configure things with? I use Gnome at the moment with an old Debian system, but that use is basically confined to starting Firefox and sometimes xpdf, and occasionally gimp, and switching between windows. So I'm looking to use a less bloated WM now. I haven't decided which, yet, either xfce or ratpoison, or maybe something in between. Sometime I'd like to try xmonad, because Haskell is such a sweet language. Please, somebody, tell me all this HAL stuff is straightforwardly explained in an easily accessible Gentoo document, so that I can hang my head in shame and apologise for the noise! ;-) isn't it just done for you? I don't know. It (i.e. startx) didn't work at all until I emerged xterm. Now it starts with 3 working xterms with focus-follows-mouse. I suppose that counts as working. $ slocate 10-input-policy.fdi /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-input-policy.fdi i...@orpheus ~ $ equery belongs /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-input-policy.fdi * Searching for /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-input-policy.fdi ... sys-apps/hal-0.5.14-r2 (/usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-input-policy.fdi) so why are you copying these files by hand? Because the fine manual The X Server Configuration HOWTO encouraged me to do so: Just find a few that suit your needs most closely and copy them ; Just copy the ones you need, and edit them once they're placed in the proper /etc location.. Actually I hadn't got around to copying them. I was fuming at the vagueness of the instructions, and the vagueness of everything else to do with HAL. I've a lot of sympathy with David Bowman. ;-) So, is there any documentation in Gentoo for configuring HAL? -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:27:32 +0100, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:17:08 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: My solution to simplify Gentoo... waltd...@d531 ~ $ cat /etc/portage/package.mask sys-libs/pam sys-apps/dbus sys-apps/hal That's as much crippling as simplifying. You can do without pam and hal by setting appropriate USE flags (I run pam-free here by doing just that) but D-Bus provides a standard way for applications to communicate with one another and removing it can stop your desktop working as it should. Really? I removed dbus from my system altogether and everything seems to be communicating fine. And according to this (http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-810848-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-0.html) a system should be able to communicate without dbus. And an easy way to be pam, dbus, and hal free is just setting the right USE flags. I'd say it's easier than to make a package.mask file, if you haven't created one. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On 9 Feb 2010, at 00:27, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:34:01 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote: Thanks for the info everyone, but do you understand the agony I am now suffering at the fact that all disk in my system (including all parts of my RAID5) are starting on sector 63 and I don't have sufficient free space (or free time) to repartition them? :) With the RAID, you could fail one disk, repartition, re-add it, rinse and repeat. But that doesn't take care of the time issue. Aren't you thinking of LVM, or something? Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:43:12 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote: That's as much crippling as simplifying. You can do without pam and hal by setting appropriate USE flags (I run pam-free here by doing just that) but D-Bus provides a standard way for applications to communicate with one another and removing it can stop your desktop working as it should. Really? I removed dbus from my system altogether and everything seems to be communicating fine. And according to this (http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-810848-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-0.html) a system should be able to communicate without dbus. I've not read the whole thread, but this quote jumped out. DBUS is just the chosen successor to DCOP and CORBA; all platforms have inter-process messaging (e.g, Distributed Objects in OSX/*STEP). It is a messaging layer and nothing to do with HAL, although HAL may use it to communicate, for example to let the desktop know that a USB device has been connected or disconnected. While HAL is an ugly mess that should never be exposed to users, D-Bus just gets on with its job, maybe because it is not exposed to users. -- Neil Bothwick They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:46:40 +, Stroller wrote: With the RAID, you could fail one disk, repartition, re-add it, rinse and repeat. But that doesn't take care of the time issue. Aren't you thinking of LVM, or something? No. The very nature of RAID is redundancy, so you could remove one disk from the array to modify its setup then replace it. -- Neil Bothwick One World, One Web, One Program - Microsoft Promotional Ad Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer - Adolf Hitler signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Dienstag 09 Februar 2010, Stroller wrote: On 9 Feb 2010, at 00:27, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:34:01 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote: Thanks for the info everyone, but do you understand the agony I am now suffering at the fact that all disk in my system (including all parts of my RAID5) are starting on sector 63 and I don't have sufficient free space (or free time) to repartition them? :) With the RAID, you could fail one disk, repartition, re-add it, rinse and repeat. But that doesn't take care of the time issue. Aren't you thinking of LVM, or something? Stroller. no
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I an Erasee ?
On Dienstag 09 Februar 2010, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, I wanted to unsubscribe from this list, but the mlmmj said, that I cannot unsubscribe since I am not subscribed. Which isn't quite right as you can see here. I fear if I would subscribe now a second time and unsubscribe than, I will become two erasees... What can I do to become real again ... ;) Best regards, mcc contact list admin?
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 13:46:40 Stroller wrote: On 9 Feb 2010, at 00:27, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:34:01 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote: Thanks for the info everyone, but do you understand the agony I am now suffering at the fact that all disk in my system (including all parts of my RAID5) are starting on sector 63 and I don't have sufficient free space (or free time) to repartition them? :) With the RAID, you could fail one disk, repartition, re-add it, rinse and repeat. But that doesn't take care of the time issue. Aren't you thinking of LVM, or something? Stroller. Not sure where LVM would fit into this, as then you'd need to offload the data from that PV (Physical Volume) to a different PV first. With Raid (NOT striping) you can remove one disk, leaving the Raid-array in a reduced state. Then repartition the disk you removed, repartition and then re- add the disk to the array. Wait for the rebuild to complete and do the same with the next disk in the array. Eg: (for a 3-disk raid5): 1) remove disk-1 from raid 2) repartition disk-1 3) add disk-1 as new disk to raid 4) wait for the synchronisation to finish 5) remove disk-2 from raid 6) repartition disk-2 7) add disk-2 as new disk to raid 8) wait for the synchronisation to finish 9) remove disk-3 from raid 10) repartition disk-3 11) add disk-3 as new disk to raid 12) wait for the synchronisation to finish (These steps can easily be adapted for any size and type of raid, apart from striping/raid-0) I do, however, see a potential problem, if you repartition starting from sector 64 instead of from sector 63, the disk has 1 sector less, which means 4KB less in size. The Raid-array may not accept the re-partitioned disk back into the array because it's not big enough for the array. I had this issue with an older system once where I replaced a dead 80GB (Yes, I did say old :) ) with a new 80GB drive. This drive was actually a few KB smaller in size and the RAID would refuse to accept it. -- Joost Roeleveld
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On 2/8/2010 5:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: . Am I the only person that finds this semantic gibberish? Is there any explanation somewhere of what a policy aka device rule is? What is the semantic significance of a device rule? What does it mean, to rule a device, or what sort of restrictions are being placed on this device? Given that one might desire a basic working keyboard/mouse combination, what is the chain of reasoning that ends up selecting the file called 10-input-policy.fdi from all the other ones? This file is an inpenetrable stanza of uncommented XML. Are its verbs documented somewhere? What do match ... andappend mean, for example? The way HAL works, in a nutshell, is to scan your system for every known piece of hardware it can find, and stores the information in a tree-like database of key/value pairs. Software can then query this database for information about whatever hardware you have. The information includes things like the bus location of the hardware, the manufacturer information, state information, and a lists of known capabilities like keyboard, mouse, disk, etc. Device Rules are simply ways for the user to change values in the database after a device has been detected. The XML files work in two steps: 1. match an existing node in the database, 2. append or merge new values into those nodes. For example, the hplip printer/scanner drivers include a set of HAL rules that match HP devices by their PCI device information, then append scanner to their list of capabilities. Other software can then scan the HAL database for all scanners and find them. The synaptics touchpad driver (if you build it +hal) includes a set of HAL rules that overrides the standard 'mouse' rules to make your touchpad more useful. That bit about you having to do anything to make a basic working setup function, though, is wrong. On Gentoo, at least, everything you need for a working keyboard and mouse in X should be installed properly for you by default. You'd only need to mess with the rules if something didn't work. But, see below. Can this new-style fragmented XML configuration do anything that a good old-fashioned, human-readable and compact xorg.conf can't? If so, what? What am I missing here? HAL manages a *lot* more than just your X configuration. It's intended to be a complete hardware management layer, one that was able to keep pace with new hardware more quickly than the kernel could. If you run the HAL database dump utility lshal you'll see more information about your hardware than you could ever possible care to know. Please, somebody, tell me all this HAL stuff is straightforwardly explained in an easily accessible Gentoo document, so that I can hang my head in shame and apologise for the noise! ;-) Oddly enough, the most complete explanation of HAL I've ever found was on the Gentoo wiki and I think the page may be lost. It was never really documented that well, though there are a number of places you can find specific ways to do specific things (like using a touchpad) with HAL. The key point here, though, is that HAL is going away. Not because it was hard to configure, though -- because the code is an unmaintainable mess and because other software, like udev, duplicated much of its purpose. At this point, if it's not working for you out of the box, turn it back off and revert to the old style configuration file.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
Alan Mackenzie wrote: Hi, Iain, On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 09:09:14AM +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote: On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 22:20 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote: [snip to the crux:] Can this new-style fragmented XML configuration do anything that a good old-fashioned, human-readable and compact xorg.conf can't? If so, what? What am I missing here? presumably you're missing the previous conversation on this topic: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/225223/focus=225223 Yes, indeed. I've read up about half of it now. Have I understood correctly, that if I carry on with this HAL, I need to use a heavyweight window manager (such as Gnome) to be able to configure things with? I use Gnome at the moment with an old Debian system, but that use is basically confined to starting Firefox and sometimes xpdf, and occasionally gimp, and switching between windows. So I'm looking to use a less bloated WM now. I haven't decided which, yet, either xfce or ratpoison, or maybe something in between. Sometime I'd like to try xmonad, because Haskell is such a sweet language. Please, somebody, tell me all this HAL stuff is straightforwardly explained in an easily accessible Gentoo document, so that I can hang my head in shame and apologise for the noise! ;-) isn't it just done for you? I don't know. It (i.e. startx) didn't work at all until I emerged xterm. Now it starts with 3 working xterms with focus-follows-mouse. I suppose that counts as working. This is the failsafe. I thinks is twm. $ slocate 10-input-policy.fdi /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-input-policy.fdi i...@orpheus ~ $ equery belongs /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-input-policy.fdi * Searching for /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-input-policy.fdi ... sys-apps/hal-0.5.14-r2 (/usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-input-policy.fdi) so why are you copying these files by hand? Because the fine manual The X Server Configuration HOWTO encouraged me to do so: Just find a few that suit your needs most closely and copy them ; Just copy the ones you need, and edit them once they're placed in the proper /etc location.. Actually I hadn't got around to copying them. I was fuming at the vagueness of the instructions, and the vagueness of everything else to do with HAL. I've a lot of sympathy with David Bowman. ;-) So, is there any documentation in Gentoo for configuring HAL? -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). You don't need a heavy wm to use hal with xorg. I use blackbox and my hal works a treat, the only thing I have in my xorg is my video settings because my monitor is a twat and has forgotten it's own mode lines (or it won't tell my gcard). Blackbox is super and lightweight. The fdi files should be copied over to /etc and reconfigured, the ones in /usr should remain. If you have every configured xorg by hand before, the xml syntax in the fdi files are quite easy to get to grips with, like key=lvalue and type is the type of data the lvalue will point to, the part inbetween the tags is the value. merge key=input.xkb.layout type=stringgb/merge So this says insert into my xorg keyboards section the lvalue layout and its value is GB, easy, huh? -- Regards, Roundyz
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:33 AM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:43:12 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote: That's as much crippling as simplifying. You can do without pam and hal by setting appropriate USE flags (I run pam-free here by doing just that) but D-Bus provides a standard way for applications to communicate with one another and removing it can stop your desktop working as it should. Really? I removed dbus from my system altogether and everything seems to be communicating fine. And according to this (http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-810848-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-0.html) a system should be able to communicate without dbus. I've not read the whole thread, but this quote jumped out. DBUS is just the chosen successor to DCOP and CORBA; all platforms have inter-process messaging (e.g, Distributed Objects in OSX/*STEP). It is a messaging layer and nothing to do with HAL, although HAL may use it to communicate, for example to let the desktop know that a USB device has been connected or disconnected. While HAL is an ugly mess that should never be exposed to users, D-Bus just gets on with its job, maybe because it is not exposed to users. -- Neil Bothwick The forums seems to be down at the moment so I'll try to read the thread later. The only thing I wanted to say what that for me it's been somewhat backward. hald doesn't work for my video cards because my hardware isn't well supported. However I still have it turned on. I cannot suggest why it's on, but it is. I presume it helps with mounting external drives and things but I cannot or have not proved it. On the other hand there's a _long_ history in the pro-audio area of seeing problems with dbus messing up the operation of Jack audio and many of us including me leave dbus turned off. Go figure! - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On 2/9/2010 3:16 AM, Dale wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:17:08 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: My solution to simplify Gentoo... waltd...@d531 ~ $ cat /etc/portage/package.mask sys-libs/pam sys-apps/dbus sys-apps/hal You'll have to do a manual depclean (very carefully) and revdep-rebuild, but it's worth the effort to purify your Gentoo system. Simpler than that, just add -hal to xorg stuff in package.use and then run emerge -uvDNa world. I'm not saying your way won't work but I think mine is easier. His way is also *way* more Luddite than yours. Note the 'pam' and 'dbus', two things basically standard (and very stable) on modern Linux desktop systems. --K
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On 9 Feb 2010, at 13:57, J. Roeleveld wrote: ... With Raid (NOT striping) you can remove one disk, leaving the Raid- array in a reduced state. Then repartition the disk you removed, repartition and then re- add the disk to the array. Exactly. Except the partitions extend, in the same positions, across all the disks. You cannot remove one disk from the array and repartition it, because the partition is across the array, not the disk. The single disk, removed from a RAID 5 (specified by Paul Hartman) array does not contain any partitions, just one stripe of them. I apologise if I'm misunderstanding something here, or if your RAID works differently to mine. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 16:11:14 Stroller wrote: On 9 Feb 2010, at 13:57, J. Roeleveld wrote: ... With Raid (NOT striping) you can remove one disk, leaving the Raid- array in a reduced state. Then repartition the disk you removed, repartition and then re- add the disk to the array. Exactly. Except the partitions extend, in the same positions, across all the disks. You cannot remove one disk from the array and repartition it, because the partition is across the array, not the disk. The single disk, removed from a RAID 5 (specified by Paul Hartman) array does not contain any partitions, just one stripe of them. I apologise if I'm misunderstanding something here, or if your RAID works differently to mine. Stroller. Stroller, it is my understanding that you use hardware raid adapters? If that is the case, then the mentioned method won't work for you and if your raid-adapters already align everything properly, then you shouldn't notice any problems with these drives. It would, however, be interesting to know how hardware raid adapters handle these 4KB sector-sizes. I believe Paul Hartman is, like me, using Linux Sofware raid (mdadm+kernel drivers). In that case, you can do either of the following: Put the whole disk into the RAID, eg: mdadm --create --level=5 --devices=6 /dev/sd[abcdef] Or, you create 1 or more partitions on the disk and use these, eg: mdadm --create --level=5 --devices=6 /dev/sd[abcdef]1 To have linux auto-detect for raid devices work, as far as I know, the partitioning method is required. For that, I created a single full-disk partition on my drives: -- # fdisk -l -u /dev/sda Disk /dev/sda: 1500.3 GB, 1500301910016 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 182401 cylinders, total 2930277168 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Disk identifier: 0xda7d8d6d Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 64 2930277167 1465138552 fd Linux raid autodetect -- I, after reading this, redid the array with the partition starting at sector 64. Paul was unfortunate to have already filled his disks before this thread appeared. The downside is: you loose one sector, but the advantage is a much improved performance (Or more precisely, not incur the performance penalty from having misaligned partitions) -- Joost Roeleveld
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:11:14 +, Stroller wrote: You cannot remove one disk from the array and repartition it, because the partition is across the array, not the disk. The single disk, removed from a RAID 5 (specified by Paul Hartman) array does not contain any partitions, just one stripe of them. A 3 disk RAID 5 array can handle one disk failing. Although information is striped across all three disks, any two are enough to retrieve it. If this were not the case, it would be called AID 5. -- Neil Bothwick Always remember to pillage before you burn. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP There's a few small downsides I've run into with all of this so far: 1) Since we don't use sector 63 it seems that fdisk will still tell you that you can use 63 until you use up all your primary partitions. It used to be easier to put additional partitions on when it gave you the next sector you could use after the one you just added.. Now I'm finding that I need to write things down and figure it out more carefully outside of fdisk. Replying mostly to myself, WRT the value 63 continuing to show up after making the first partition start at 64, in my case since for desktop machines the first partition is general /boot, and as it's written and read so seldom, in the future when faced with this problem I will likely start /boot at 63 and just ensure that all the other partitions - /, /var, /home, etc., start on boundaries divisible by 8. It will make using fdisk slightly more pleasant. - Mark
[gentoo-user] emerge older version
Hi, I'm tryin to emerge ImageMagick version 6.4.7.0 while current in portage is 6.5.7. How could I do that?? thanks Laurent
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
Am Dienstag, 9. Februar 2010 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger: 4) Everything I've done so far leave me with messages about partition 1 not ending on a cylinder boundary. Googling on that one says don't worry about it. I don't know... Well since only the start of a partition determines its alignment with hardware sectors, I think it's really not that important. Worst case: mkfs truncates the last few sectors to make it a multiple of its cluster size. Anyway, mine's like this, just to throw it into the pot to the others ( those # are added by me to show their respective use ) eisen # fdisk -l -u /dev/sda Disk /dev/sda: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60801 cylinders, total 976773168 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Disk identifier: 0x80178017 Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 * 632515778912578863+ 7 HPFS/NTFS # Windows /dev/sda2 251577908808439431463302+ 7 HPFS/NTFS # Games /dev/sda3 88084395 12794165919928632+ 83 Linux # / /dev/sda4 127941660 976768064 424413202+ 5 Extended /dev/sda5 127941723 28881656980437423+ 83 Linux # /home /dev/sda6 288816633 780341309 245762338+ 83 Linux # music /dev/sda7 813113973 97670380481794916 83 Linux # X-Plane /dev/sda8 * 976703868 976768064 32098+ 83 Linux # /boot /dev/sda9 780341373 81311390916386268+ 7 HPFS/NTFS # Win7 test I have started amending my partitioning scheme, starting at the rear. Since my backup drive has exactly the same scheme, I’m working on that and then restore my local drive from it, so I need as little time in a LiveCD environment as possible. I have reset sdb7 to use boundaries divisible by 64. Old rangebegin%64 size%64 New rangebegin%64 size%64 813113973-976703804 0.82810.125813113984-976703935 0 0 And guess what - the speed of truecrypt at creating a new container doubled. With the old scheme, it started at 13.5 MB/s, now it started at 26-odd. I’m blaming that cap on the USB connection to the drive, though it’s gradually getting more: after 2/3 of the partition, it’s at 27.7. So sdb7 now ends at sector 976703935. Interestingly, I couldn’t use the immediate next sector for sdb8: start for sdb8 response by fdisk 976703936sector already allocated 976703944Value out of range. First sector... (default 976703999): The first one fdisk offered me was exactly 64 sectors behind the end sector of sdb7 (976703999), which would leave a space of those mysterious 62 “empty” sectors in between. So I used 976704000, which is divisable by 64 again, though it’s not that relevant for a partition of 31 MB. :D As soon as truecrypt is finished, I'm going to solidify my findings by performing this on another partition, and I’ll also see what happens if I start at a start sector of k*64+1. Just out of curiousity. :-) -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' Crayons can take you more places than starships. (Guinan) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge older version
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:45:20 +0100, Laurent Kappler laur...@logiquefloue.org wrote: Hi, I'm tryin to emerge ImageMagick version 6.4.7.0 while current in portage is 6.5.7. How could I do that?? thanks Laurent add this to your package.mask: =media-gfx/imagemagick-6.4.7.1 and then emerge imagemagick again. :-) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On 9 Feb 2010, at 15:43, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 15:11:14 +, Stroller wrote: You cannot remove one disk from the array and repartition it, because the partition is across the array, not the disk. The single disk, removed from a RAID 5 (specified by Paul Hartman) array does not contain any partitions, just one stripe of them. A 3 disk RAID 5 array can handle one disk failing. Although information is striped across all three disks, any two are enough to retrieve it. If this were not the case, it would be called AID 5. Of course you can REMOVE this disk. However, in hardware RAID you cannot do anything USEFUL to the single disk. In hardware RAID it is the controller card which manages the arrays and consolidates them for the o/s. You attach three drives to a hardware RAID controller, setup a RAID5 array and then the controller exports the array to the operating system as a block device (e.g. /dev/ sda). You then run fdisk on this virtual disk and create the partitions. You cannot connect just a partition to a hardware RAID controller. Thus in hardware RAID there are no partitions on each single disk, only (as I said before) stripes of the partitions. You cannot usefully repartition a single hard-drive from a hardware RAID set - anything you do to that single drive will be wiped out when you re-add it to the array and the current state of the virtual disk is propagated on to it. I hope this explanation makes sense. I was not aware that Linux software RAID behaved differently. See Joost's explanation of 9 February 2010 15:27:32 GMT. I asked if you were referring to LVM because I set that up several years ago, and it also allows you to add partitions as PVs. I can see how it would be useful to add just a partition to a RAID array, and it's great that you can do this in software RAID. So this: On 9 Feb 2010, at 00:27, Neil Bothwick wrote: With the RAID, you could fail one disk, repartition, re-add it, rinse and repeat. But that doesn't take care of the time issue only applies in the specific case that Paul Hartman is using Linux software RAID, not the general case of RAID in general. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge older version
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:45:20 +0100 Laurent Kappler laur...@logiquefloue.org wrote: Hi, I'm tryin to emerge ImageMagick version 6.4.7.0 while current in portage is 6.5.7. How could I do that?? thanks Laurent by using emerge =ImageMagick-6.4.7.0 - if that version was in portage though, which is not, according to http://gentoo-portage.com/media-gfx/imagemagick so I guess you have to go the hard way by installing it manually...
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge older version
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:45:20 +0100, Laurent Kappler wrote: Hi, I'm tryin to emerge ImageMagick version 6.4.7.0 while current in portage is 6.5.7. Go to http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/ browse to the package you want and select Show dead files. this gives all the obsoleted ebuilds, pick the files you need and copy them to the media-gfx/imagemagick directory in your overlay. Then add media-gfx/imagemagick-6.4.7.0 to /etc/portage.package.use. You'll need to ebuild /path/to/ebuild manifest before you can emerge it. Except that particular version is not there, so it was never in portage. You can either make do with a close version or copy the nearest ebuild and rename it to match the version you need. -- Neil Bothwick ... We are Dyslexics of Borg. Your ass will be laminated. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:34:01 -0600, Paul Hartman wrote: Thanks for the info everyone, but do you understand the agony I am now suffering at the fact that all disk in my system (including all parts of my RAID5) are starting on sector 63 and I don't have sufficient free space (or free time) to repartition them? :) With the RAID, you could fail one disk, repartition, re-add it, rinse and repeat. But that doesn't take care of the time issue. I will admit that if a drive fails I will have to google for the instructions to proceed from there. When I first set it up, I read the info, but since I never had to use it I've completely forgotten the specifics. And in hindsight I should have labeled the disks so I know more easily which one failed (when one fails). Next time, I'll do it right. :) I am really curious if there are any gains to be made on my own system... Me too, so post back after you've done it ;-) I have a dmcrypt on top of the (software) RAID5, so speed is not so much of an issue in this case, but reducing physical wear tear on the disks would always be a good thing. Maybe someday if I am brave I will try it... but probably not until I made a full backup, just in case.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On 9 Feb 2010, at 15:27, J. Roeleveld wrote: On Tuesday 09 February 2010 16:11:14 Stroller wrote: On 9 Feb 2010, at 13:57, J. Roeleveld wrote: ... With Raid (NOT striping) you can remove one disk, leaving the Raid- array in a reduced state. Then repartition the disk you removed, repartition and then re- add the disk to the array. Exactly. Except the partitions extend, in the same positions, across all the disks. You cannot remove one disk from the array and repartition it, because the partition is across the array, not the disk. The single disk, removed from a RAID 5 (specified by Paul Hartman) array does not contain any partitions, just one stripe of them. I apologise if I'm misunderstanding something here, or if your RAID works differently to mine. Stroller, it is my understanding that you use hardware raid adapters? Yes. If that is the case, then the mentioned method won't work for you ... I believe Paul Hartman is, like me, using Linux Sofware raid (mdadm +kernel drivers). In that case, you can do either of the following: Put the whole disk into the RAID, eg: mdadm --create --level=5 --devices=6 /dev/sd[abcdef] Or, you create 1 or more partitions on the disk and use these, eg: mdadm --create --level=5 --devices=6 /dev/sd[abcdef]1 Thank you for identifying the source of this misunderstanding. and if your raid-adapters already align everything properly, then you shouldn't notice any problems with these drives. It would, however, be interesting to know how hardware raid adapters handle these 4KB sector-sizes. I think my adaptor at least, being older, may very well be prone to this problem. I discussed this in my post of 8 February 2010 19:57:46 GMT - certainly I have a RAID array aligned beginning at sector 63, and it is at least a little slow. I will test just as soon as I can afford 3 x 1TB drives. I think the RAID adaptor would have to be quite clever to avoid this problem. It may be a feature added in newer controllers, but that would be a special attempt to compensate. I think in the general case the RAID controller should just consolidate 3 x physical block devices (or more) into 1 x virtual block device, and should not do anything more complicated that this. I am sure that a misalignment will propagate downwards through the levels of obscusification. IMO this is a fdisk bug. A feature should be added so that it tries to align optimally in most circumstances. RAID controllers should not be trying to do anything clever to accommodate potential misalignment unless it is really cheap to do so. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge older version
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Laurent Kappler laur...@logiquefloue.org wrote: Hi, I'm tryin to emerge ImageMagick version 6.4.7.0 while current in portage is 6.5.7. How could I do that?? Here you can download ebuilds for all previous versions and then put it in your local overlay: http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/media-gfx/imagemagick/?hideattic=0 Although it looks like 6.4.7.0 was never in portage. You might be able to take an ebuild from a version near that one and simply rename it to the version you want.
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge older version
try emerge =media-gfx/imagemagick-6.4.7.0 On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Laurent Kappler laur...@logiquefloue.orgwrote: Hi, I'm tryin to emerge ImageMagick version 6.4.7.0 while current in portage is 6.5.7. How could I do that?? thanks Laurent
[gentoo-user] Re: emerge older version
On 02/09/2010 06:45 PM, Laurent Kappler wrote: Hi, I'm tryin to emerge ImageMagick version 6.4.7.0 while current in portage is 6.5.7. How could I do that?? You can't, since the lowest version in portage is 6.5.2.9: $ eix imagemagick [I] media-gfx/imagemagick Available versions: 6.5.2.9!u (~)6.5.4.10!u 6.5.7.0!u (~)6.5.8.8!u
[gentoo-user] emerge -avt xfce4-meta; haven't got startxfce4. Help, please!
Hi, Gentoo, The Subject: just about says it all; following the instructions in The Xfce Configuration Guide, I did # emerge -avt xfce4-meta followed by $ echo exec startxfce4 ~/.xinitrc followed by $ startx. The X-server complained about not finding startxfce4. A quick find command, find / -name startxfce4 (and I do mean quick - it took only half a second :-) demonstrated a complete absence of a file with that name. Help, please! What do I need to do to get xfce running? -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge older version
Laurent Kappler writes: I'm tryin to emerge ImageMagick version 6.4.7.0 while current in portage is 6.5.7. How could I do that?? Look in the attic [*] for old ebuilds. Looks like 6.4.7.0 is not available, so maybe you will download 6.4.8.3 which is the nearest version. Put the ebuild into your overlay, create a manifest (like ebuild /usr/local/portage/media-gfx/imagemagick/imagemagick-6.4.8.3.ebuild manifest), and try to emerge =media-gfx/imagemagick-6.4.8.3. This might work, but maybe there is other software you have installed that needs a newer version - then it would not work so easily. Why do you need it anyway? You could also just fetch the tarball from imagemagick.org, build it in a local directory, and install to /usr/local/. Wonko [*] http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/media- gfx/imagemagick/?hideattic=0
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
Hey guys, There seems to be a lot of confusion over this RAID thing. Hardware RAID does not use partitions. The entire drive is used (or, actually, the amount defined in setting up the array) and all I/O is handled by the BIOS on the RAID controller. The array appears as a single drive to the OS and can then be partitioned and formatted like any other drive. Software RAID can be created within existing MSDOS-style partitions - indeed must be if the array is to be bootable. The OP seems to be doing the latter so the comments about removing a drive and re-formatting are perfectly valid. In order not to confuse the matter further, I deliberately left out the pseudo-hardware controllers on many modern motherboards. ;) Be lucky, Neil http://www.neiljw.com/
Re: [gentoo-user] When is a disk not a disk?
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: Is this some sort of LVM thing creeping in? I don't use it but I see signs of it starting to show up on my systems like something is making it come in with new profiles or something. Some lvm tools/packages have replaced others that don't have lvm in the name, so maybe that's what you have seen. They aren't solely used for LVM-related things, though
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge older version
Laurent Kappler schrieb: Hi, I'm tryin to emerge ImageMagick version 6.4.7.0 while current in portage is 6.5.7. How could I do that?? thanks Laurent Hi, you will have to search for the source and an ebuild. I remember that there is a place where all (old) ebuils are saved, but I cannot remember where. Then you'll need to mask all newer versions. kh
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Frank Steinmetzger war...@gmx.de wrote: SNIP So sdb7 now ends at sector 976703935. Interestingly, I couldn’t use the immediate next sector for sdb8: start for sdb8 response by fdisk 976703936 sector already allocated 976703944 Value out of range. First sector... (default 976703999): The first one fdisk offered me was exactly 64 sectors behind the end sector of sdb7 (976703999), which would leave a space of those mysterious 62 “empty” sectors in between. So I used 976704000, which is divisable by 64 again, though it’s not that relevant for a partition of 31 MB. :D SNIP Again, this is probably unrelated to anything going on in this thread but I started wondering this morning if maybe fdisk could take a step forward with these newer disk technologies and build in some smarts about where to put partition boundaries. I.e. - if I'm using a 4K block size disk why not have fdisk do things better? My first thought was to look at the man page for fdisk and see who the author was. I did not find any email addresses. However I did find some very interesting comments about partitioning disks in the bugs section, quoted below. I don't think I need what the 'bugs' author perceives as the advantages of fdisk so I think I'll try to focus a bit more on cfdisk. Interestingly cfdisk was the tool Willie pointed out when he kindly took the time to educate me on what was going on physically. - Mark [QUOTE] BUGS There are several *fdisk programs around. Each has its problems and strengths. Try them in the order cfdisk, fdisk, sfdisk. (Indeed, cfdisk is a beautiful program that has strict requirements on the partition tables it accepts, and produces high quality partition tables. Use it if you can. fdisk is a buggy program that does fuzzy things - usually it happens to produce reasonable results. Its single advantage is that it has some support for BSD disk labels and other non-DOS partition tables. Avoid it if you can. sfdisk is for hackers only - the user interface is terrible, but it is more correct than fdisk and more powerful than both fdisk and cfdisk. Moreover, it can be used noninteractively.) [/QUOTE]
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: SNIP IMO this is a fdisk bug. A feature should be added so that it tries to align optimally in most circumstances. RAID controllers should not be trying to do anything clever to accommodate potential misalignment unless it is really cheap to do so. Stroller. We think alike. I personally wouldn't call it a bug because drives with 4K physical sectors are very new, but adding a feature to align things better is dead on the right thing to do. It's silly to expect every Linux user installing binary distros to have to learn this stuff to get good performance. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -avt xfce4-meta; haven't got startxfce4. Help, please!
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie a...@muc.de wrote: Hi, Gentoo, The Subject: just about says it all; following the instructions in The Xfce Configuration Guide, I did # emerge -avt xfce4-meta followed by $ echo exec startxfce4 ~/.xinitrc followed by $ startx. The X-server complained about not finding startxfce4. A quick find command, find / -name startxfce4 (and I do mean quick - it took only half a second :-) demonstrated a complete absence of a file with that name. Help, please! What do I need to do to get xfce running? -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). Hummthat worked for me: firefly ~ # which startxfce4 /usr/bin/startxfce4 firefly ~ # equery belongs /usr/bin/startxfce4 [ Searching for file(s) /usr/bin/startxfce4 in *... ] xfce-base/xfce-utils-4.6.1 (/usr/bin/startxfce4) firefly ~ # m...@firefly ~ $ cat .xinitrc exec startxfce4 m...@firefly ~ $ Do and emerge -pvDuN @world/revdep-rebuild -ip and make sure you are really clean. It should work but the info above should allow oyu to get it running. I didn't need to do anything special here. Hope this helps, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge older version
Alex Schuster a écrit : Laurent Kappler writes: I'm tryin to emerge ImageMagick version 6.4.7.0 while current in portage is 6.5.7. How could I do that?? Look in the attic [*] for old ebuilds. Looks like 6.4.7.0 is not available, so maybe you will download 6.4.8.3 which is the nearest version. Put the ebuild into your overlay, create a manifest (like ebuild /usr/local/portage/media-gfx/imagemagick/imagemagick-6.4.8.3.ebuild manifest), and try to emerge =media-gfx/imagemagick-6.4.8.3. This might work, but maybe there is other software you have installed that needs a newer version - then it would not work so easily. Why do you need it anyway? You could also just fetch the tarball from imagemagick.org, build it in a local directory, and install to /usr/local/. Wonko [*] http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/media- gfx/imagemagick/?hideattic=0 Thank you, I will check all this ;) Laurent
[gentoo-user] Re: revdep-rebuild keeps reinstalling binutils
On 02/08/2010 10:27 PM, Konstantinos Bekiaris wrote: What do you have in /etc/env.d/gcc/? I have this: #ls -l /etc/env.d/gcc/ total 16 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 32 2010-02-08 11:53 config-i686-pc-linux-gnu -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 235 2009-01-29 12:33 i686-pc-linux-gnu-4.1.2 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 235 2009-07-04 09:02 i686-pc-linux-gnu-4.3.2 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 235 2010-01-10 12:29 i686-pc-linux-gnu-4.3.4 Do you still have any version of gcc installed? drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 24 13:16 . drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Jan 24 13:17 .. lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 Jan 24 06:25 .NATIVE - x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-4.1.2 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 34 Jan 24 06:25 config-x86_64-pc-linux-gnu -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 381 Jan 24 06:25 x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-4.3.4 There's one problem. .NATIVE is pointing at a non-existent file. Assuming your machine really does have gcc-4.3.4, .NATIVE should be pointing at x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-4.3.4, and the contents of config-x86_64-pc-linux-gnu should be: CURRENT=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-4.3.4 I don't know why there are two different ways to point at the same gcc, but that's the way gcc-config does it. Correct those two files and see if it helps. I think that i have gcc, the problem is that it is not correctly linked with tha appropriate files-libraries. You can run /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.3.4/gcc directly to see if it works.
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -avt xfce4-meta; haven't got startxfce4. Help, please!
firefly ~ # emerge -ep xfce4-meta | grep xfce | grep utils [ebuild R ] xfce-base/xfce-utils-4.6.1 firefly ~ # On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP firefly ~ # which startxfce4 /usr/bin/startxfce4 firefly ~ # equery belongs /usr/bin/startxfce4 [ Searching for file(s) /usr/bin/startxfce4 in *... ] xfce-base/xfce-utils-4.6.1 (/usr/bin/startxfce4) firefly ~ # m...@firefly ~ $ cat .xinitrc exec startxfce4 m...@firefly ~ $ SNIP Possibly you installed something other than xfce4-meta? firefly ~ # emerge -ep xfce4-meta | grep xfce | grep utils [ebuild R ] xfce-base/xfce-utils-4.6.1 firefly ~ #
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 19:25:00 Mark Knecht wrote: On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: SNIP IMO this is a fdisk bug. A feature should be added so that it tries to align optimally in most circumstances. RAID controllers should not be trying to do anything clever to accommodate potential misalignment unless it is really cheap to do so. Stroller. We think alike. I personally wouldn't call it a bug because drives with 4K physical sectors are very new, but adding a feature to align things better is dead on the right thing to do. It's silly to expect every Linux user installing binary distros to have to learn this stuff to get good performance. - Mark I actually agree, although I think the 'best' solution (untill someone comes up with an even better one, that is :) ) would be for the drive to actually be able to inform the OS (via S.M.A.R.T.?) that it has 4KB sectors. If then fdisk-programs and RAID-cards (ok, new firmware) then uses this to come to sensible settings, that would then work. If these RAID-cards then also pass on the correct settings for the raid-array for optimal performance (stripe-size = sector-size?) using the same method, then everyone would end up with better performance. Now, if anyone has any idea on how to get this idea implemented by the hardware vendors, then I'm quite certain the different tools can be modified to take this information into account? And Mark, it's not just people installing binary distros, I think it's generally people who don't fully understand the way harddrives work on a physical level. I consider myself lucky to have worked with older computers where this information was actually necessary to even get the BIOS to recognize the harddrive. -- Joost
Slow list? (was: Re: [gentoo-user] emerge older version)
Wow, seven mostly similar answers. Is the list becoming slow? When I posted about an hour after the question was posted, there were no answers yet. Let's see how long this post takes to arrive. Usually it's just a matter of a few minutes. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 19:03:39 Neil Walker wrote: Hey guys, There seems to be a lot of confusion over this RAID thing. Hardware RAID does not use partitions. The entire drive is used (or, actually, the amount defined in setting up the array) and all I/O is handled by the BIOS on the RAID controller. The array appears as a single drive to the OS and can then be partitioned and formatted like any other drive. Software RAID can be created within existing MSDOS-style partitions - indeed must be if the array is to be bootable. The OP seems to be doing the latter so the comments about removing a drive and re-formatting are perfectly valid. In order not to confuse the matter further, I deliberately left out the pseudo-hardware controllers on many modern motherboards. ;) Don't get me started on those ;) The reason I use Linux Software Raid is because: 1) I can't afford hardware raid adapters 2) It's generally faster then hardware fakeraid -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge -avt xfce4-meta; haven't got startxfce4. Help, please!
Mark Knecht wrote: On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Alan Mackenzie a...@muc.de wrote: Hi, Gentoo, The Subject: just about says it all; following the instructions in The Xfce Configuration Guide, I did # emerge -avt xfce4-meta followed by $ echo exec startxfce4 ~/.xinitrc followed by $ startx. The X-server complained about not finding startxfce4. A quick find command, find / -name startxfce4 (and I do mean quick - it took only half a second :-) demonstrated a complete absence of a file with that name. Help, please! What do I need to do to get xfce running? -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). Hummthat worked for me: firefly ~ # which startxfce4 /usr/bin/startxfce4 firefly ~ # equery belongs /usr/bin/startxfce4 [ Searching for file(s) /usr/bin/startxfce4 in *... ] xfce-base/xfce-utils-4.6.1 (/usr/bin/startxfce4) firefly ~ # m...@firefly ~ $ cat .xinitrc exec startxfce4 m...@firefly ~ $ Do and emerge -pvDuN @world/revdep-rebuild -ip and make sure you are really clean. It should work but the info above should allow oyu to get it running. I didn't need to do anything special here. Hope this helps, Mark Do you have xfce-base/xfdesktop installed? Try installing it.
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge older version
Alex Schuster a écrit : Laurent Kappler writes: I'm tryin to emerge ImageMagick version 6.4.7.0 while current in portage is 6.5.7. How could I do that?? Look in the attic [*] for old ebuilds. Looks like 6.4.7.0 is not available, so maybe you will download 6.4.8.3 which is the nearest version. Put the ebuild into your overlay, create a manifest (like ebuild /usr/local/portage/media-gfx/imagemagick/imagemagick-6.4.8.3.ebuild manifest), and try to emerge =media-gfx/imagemagick-6.4.8.3. This might work, but maybe there is other software you have installed that needs a newer version - then it would not work so easily. Why do you need it anyway? You could also just fetch the tarball from imagemagick.org, build it in a local directory, and install to /usr/local/. Wonko [*] http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/media- gfx/imagemagick/?hideattic=0 I'm using Haxe/Neko and we have a wrapper for ImageMagick, but as no one did really use it often the last version is made for IM 6.4.7. So I might download the ebuild 6.4.5 in a hurry, then we will update the Haxe library. Laurent
[gentoo-user] Re: Slow list?
On 02/09/2010 09:32 PM, Alex Schuster wrote: Wow, seven mostly similar answers. Is the list becoming slow? When I posted about an hour after the question was posted, there were no answers yet. Let's see how long this post takes to arrive. Usually it's just a matter of a few minutes. I noticed that too; I thought it's GMane's fault (I'm posting through their NNTP server.)
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 17:17:48 +, Stroller wrote: only applies in the specific case that Paul Hartman is using Linux software RAID, not the general case of RAID in general. That's true, although in the Linux world I expect that the number of software RAID users far outnumbers the hardware RAID users. Unlike the pseudo-RAID that Windows usually offers, Linux software RAID is proper RAID with performance comparable to all but the most expensive hardware setups. With hardware RAID, removing and reading a disk wouldn't work for this, just as it wouldn't for software RAID using whole disks. However, using whole disk with RAID5 is unlikely unless you have another disk too, otherwise you wouldn't be able to load the kernel. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 16: Peace force signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: emerge -avt xfce4-meta; haven't got startxfce4. Help, please!
Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com writes: Possibly you installed something other than xfce4-meta? firefly ~ # emerge -ep xfce4-meta | grep xfce | grep utils [ebuild R ] xfce-base/xfce-utils-4.6.1 firefly ~ # I'm just seconding fireflys' report. I suspect xfce4 expects you to be starting X from a system script under /etc/X11 somewhere instead of startx. So may consider that method a secondary thing and therefor not install xfce-base/xfce-utils by default. (just a guess) I use the startx method too and don't recall doing anything special to get it to work. But maybe just installing or reinstalling xfce-base/xfce-utils will take care of the problem. Is xfce-base/xfce-utils already installed?
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
Am Dienstag, 9. Februar 2010 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger: I have reset sdb7 to use boundaries divisible by 64. Old rangebegin%64 size%64 New rangebegin%64 size%64 813113973-976703804 0.82810.125813113984-976703935 0 0 And guess what - the speed of truecrypt at creating a new container doubled. With the old scheme, it started at 13.5 MB/s, now it started at 26-odd. I’m blaming that cap on the USB connection to the drive, though it’s gradually getting more: after 2/3 of the partition, it’s at 27.7. I fear I'll have to correct that a little. This 13.5 figure seems to be incorrect, in another try it was also shown at the beginning, but then quickly got up to 20. Also, a buddy just told me that this 4k stuff applies only to most recent drives, as old as 5 months or so. When I use parted on the drives, it says (both the old external and my 2 months old internal): Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B So no speedup for me then. :-/ -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' Keyboard not connected, press F1 to continue. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 22:13:39 Frank Steinmetzger wrote: snipped When I use parted on the drives, it says (both the old external and my 2 months old internal): Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B So no speedup for me then. :-/ That doesn't mean a thing, I'm afraid. I have the 4KB drives (product-code and behaviour match) and parted also claims my drives have a 512B logical/physical sector size.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Frank Steinmetzger war...@gmx.de wrote: Am Dienstag, 9. Februar 2010 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger: I have reset sdb7 to use boundaries divisible by 64. Old range begin%64 size%64 New range begin%64 size%64 813113973-976703804 0.8281 0.125 813113984-976703935 0 0 And guess what - the speed of truecrypt at creating a new container doubled. With the old scheme, it started at 13.5 MB/s, now it started at 26-odd. I’m blaming that cap on the USB connection to the drive, though it’s gradually getting more: after 2/3 of the partition, it’s at 27.7. I fear I'll have to correct that a little. This 13.5 figure seems to be incorrect, in another try it was also shown at the beginning, but then quickly got up to 20. Also, a buddy just told me that this 4k stuff applies only to most recent drives, as old as 5 months or so. When I use parted on the drives, it says (both the old external and my 2 months old internal): Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B So no speedup for me then. :-/ Frank, As best I can tell so far none of the Linux tools will tell you that the sectors are 4K. I had to go to the WD web site and find the actual drive specs to discover that was true. As far as I know so far there isn't a big improvement to be had when the sector size is 512B. - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On 2/9/2010 3:16 AM, Dale wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:17:08 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: My solution to simplify Gentoo... waltd...@d531 ~ $ cat /etc/portage/package.mask sys-libs/pam sys-apps/dbus sys-apps/hal You'll have to do a manual depclean (very carefully) and revdep-rebuild, but it's worth the effort to purify your Gentoo system. Simpler than that, just add -hal to xorg stuff in package.use and then run emerge -uvDNa world. I'm not saying your way won't work but I think mine is easier. His way is also *way* more Luddite than yours. Note the 'pam' and 'dbus', two things basically standard (and very stable) on modern Linux desktop systems. --K I don't agree with the term Luddite here. It's not being against new things and new ways of doing things. He just doesn't need those things for his hardware to work properly. Me, I don't need hal for my mouse and keyboard to work. As a matter of fact, mine doesn't work WITH hal. I have to remove hal to get mine to work. So, hal may be progress to you but it is a step backward for me. It's the opposite of progress. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge older version
On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 08:39:45PM +0100, Laurent Kappler wrote: I'm using Haxe/Neko and we have a wrapper for ImageMagick, but as no one did really use it often the last version is made for IM 6.4.7. So I might download the ebuild 6.4.5 in a hurry, then we will update the Haxe library. I know nothing about the Haxe language, but google suggests that there is a library called nmagick which ports the IM library to haXe and Neko platforms. Maybe you don't need to write your own wrapper? Cheers, W -- Willie W. Wong ww...@math.princeton.edu Data aequatione quotcunque fluentes quantitae involvente fluxiones invenire et vice versa ~~~ I. Newton
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge -avt xfce4-meta; haven't got startxfce4. Help, please!
Harry Putnam wrote: Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com writes: Possibly you installed something other than xfce4-meta? firefly ~ # emerge -ep xfce4-meta | grep xfce | grep utils [ebuild R ] xfce-base/xfce-utils-4.6.1 firefly ~ # I'm just seconding fireflys' report. I suspect xfce4 expects you to be starting X from a system script under /etc/X11 somewhere instead of startx. So may consider that method a secondary thing and therefor not install xfce-base/xfce-utils by default. (just a guess) I use the startx method too and don't recall doing anything special to get it to work. But maybe just installing or reinstalling xfce-base/xfce-utils will take care of the problem. Is xfce-base/xfce-utils already installed? Again, do you have xfce-base/xfdesktop installed? Try installing it and running startxfce4.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 08:47 +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: I now only need to figure out the best way to configure LVM over this to get the best performance from it. Does anyone know of a decent way of figuring this out? I got 6 disks in Raid-5. why LVM? Planning on changing partition size later? LVM is good for (but not limited to) non-raid setups where you want one partition over a number of disks. If you have RAID 5 however, don't you just get one large disk out of it? In which case you could just create x partitions. You can always use parted to resize / move them later. IMHO recovery from tiny boot disks is easier without LVM too. -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Failure is not an option -- it comes bundled with Windows.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 13:34 +, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:46:40 +, Stroller wrote: With the RAID, you could fail one disk, repartition, re-add it, rinse and repeat. But that doesn't take care of the time issue. Aren't you thinking of LVM, or something? No. The very nature of RAID is redundancy, so you could remove one disk from the array to modify its setup then replace it. so long as you didn't have any non-detectable disk errors before removing the disk, or any drive failure while one of the drives were removed. And the deterioration in performance while each disk was removed in turn might take more time than its worth. Of course RAID 1 wouldn't suffer from this (with 2 disks)... -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Keep on keepin' on.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 20:37 +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: Don't get me started on those ;) The reason I use Linux Software Raid is because: 1) I can't afford hardware raid adapters 2) It's generally faster then hardware fakeraid I'm starting to stray OT here, but I'm considering a second-hand Adaptec 2420SA - this is real hardware raid right? If I'm buying drives in the 1Tb size - does this 4k issue affect hardware RAID and how do you get around it? (Never set up a HW RAID card before) thanks, -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au You know you're using the computer too much when: you count from zero all the time. -- Stormy Eyes
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 18:03:39 Neil Walker wrote: Be lucky, Neil How would I go about doing that? -- Rgds Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 14:54 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Frank Steinmetzger war...@gmx.de wrote: When I use parted on the drives, it says (both the old external and my 2 months old internal): Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B So no speedup for me then. :-/ so does mine :) Frank, As best I can tell so far none of the Linux tools will tell you that the sectors are 4K. I had to go to the WD web site and find the actual drive specs to discover that was true. however if you use dmesg: $ dmesg | grep ata ata1: SATA max UDMA/133 irq_stat 0x00400040, connection status changed irq 17 ata2: DUMMY ata3: SATA max UDMA/133 abar m2...@0xf6ffb800 port 0xf6ffba00 irq 17 ioatdma: Intel(R) QuickData Technology Driver 4.00 ata3: SATA link down (SStatus 0 SControl 300) ata1: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300) ata1.00: ATA-7: ST9160823ASG, 3.ADD, max UDMA/133 ata1.00: 312581808 sectors, multi 8: LBA48 NCQ (depth 31/32) ... you can look up your drive model number (in my case ST9160823ASG) and find out the details. (That's a Seagate Momentus 160Gb with actual 512 byte sectors). saves having to open up your laptop / pc if you didn't order the drive separately or you've forgotten. -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au polygon: Dead parrot.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Tuesday 09 February 2010 22:58:10 Dale wrote: So, hal may be progress to you but it is a step backward for me. It's the opposite of progress. Careful now, Dale. Watch that blood pressure... -- Rgds Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:58:10 +0100, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On 2/9/2010 3:16 AM, Dale wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:17:08 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: My solution to simplify Gentoo... waltd...@d531 ~ $ cat /etc/portage/package.mask sys-libs/pam sys-apps/dbus sys-apps/hal You'll have to do a manual depclean (very carefully) and revdep-rebuild, but it's worth the effort to purify your Gentoo system. Simpler than that, just add -hal to xorg stuff in package.use and then run emerge -uvDNa world. I'm not saying your way won't work but I think mine is easier. His way is also *way* more Luddite than yours. Note the 'pam' and 'dbus', two things basically standard (and very stable) on modern Linux desktop systems. --K I don't agree with the term Luddite here. It's not being against new things and new ways of doing things. He just doesn't need those things for his hardware to work properly. Me, I don't need hal for my mouse and keyboard to work. As a matter of fact, mine doesn't work WITH hal. I have to remove hal to get mine to work. So, hal may be progress to you but it is a step backward for me. It's the opposite of progress. Dale :-) :-) I think, that hal was a lot harder for a lot of us, than the good old xorg.conf. This may because we (linux user in general) are used to xorg.conf. For my personal experience, I hadn't been using linux for about 4 years, so I'd completely forgotten the xorg syntax, but that was still a more simple process to relearn the xorg.conf syntax, than understanding the hal configuration files. A project such as hal necessarily has contact with the user with an unusual (read: at least a non-us keyboard) setup. Therefore the syntax in which it is configured has to be easily (read: a quick google search/documentation search away) accessed by the users to whom it may be necessary. And I believe that this is the point where hal truly fails, other than cases like Dale's. The xorg.conf is simply a more simple, and easier configuration file than the various hal policies. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Tuesday 09 February 2010 22:58:10 Dale wrote: So, hal may be progress to you but it is a step backward for me. It's the opposite of progress. Careful now, Dale. Watch that blood pressure... Oh I'm fine. I already learned not to use it. I feel sorry for the rest of the people that have not. lol Now to go watch NCIS. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On 9 Feb 2010, at 23:52, Iain Buchanan wrote: ... I'm starting to stray OT here, but I'm considering a second-hand Adaptec 2420SA - this is real hardware raid right? Looks like it. Looks pretty nice, too. The affordable PCI / PCI-X 3wares don't do RAID6 - you have to go PCIe for that, I think - and that snapshot backup feature looks cute. If I'm buying drives in the 1Tb size - does this 4k issue affect hardware RAID and how do you get around it? (Never set up a HW RAID card before) Posted elsewhere - I think it'll be just the same. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Wednesday 10 February 2010 01:02:50 Dale wrote: Oh I'm fine. Thank Goodness! Now to go watch NCIS. I won't ask what that is; I think I'd rather not know. -- Rgds Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Iain Buchanan iai...@netspace.net.au wrote:
On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 14:54 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Frank Steinmetzger war...@gmx.de wrote:
When I use parted on the drives, it says (both the old external and my 2
months old internal):
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
So no speedup for me then. :-/
so does mine :)
Frank,
As best I can tell so far none of the Linux tools will tell you
that the sectors are 4K. I had to go to the WD web site and find the
actual drive specs to discover that was true.
however if you use dmesg:
$ dmesg | grep ata
ata1: SATA max UDMA/133 irq_stat 0x00400040, connection status changed
irq 17
ata2: DUMMY
ata3: SATA max UDMA/133 abar m2...@0xf6ffb800 port 0xf6ffba00 irq 17
ioatdma: Intel(R) QuickData Technology Driver 4.00
ata3: SATA link down (SStatus 0 SControl 300)
ata1: SATA link up 3.0 Gbps (SStatus 123 SControl 300)
ata1.00: ATA-7: ST9160823ASG, 3.ADD, max UDMA/133
ata1.00: 312581808 sectors, multi 8: LBA48 NCQ (depth 31/32)
...
you can look up your drive model number (in my case ST9160823ASG) and
find out the details. (That's a Seagate Momentus 160Gb with actual 512
byte sectors).
saves having to open up your laptop / pc if you didn't order the drive
separately or you've forgotten.
--
Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au
polygon:
Dead parrot.
Consider as an alternative hdparm dash capital eye. Note that is the
1TB drive and it still suggests 512B Logical/Physical sector size so
I'd still have to go find out for sure but there's lots of easily
readable info there to make it reasonably easy.
- Mark
gandalf ~ # hdparm -I /dev/sda
/dev/sda:
ATA device, with non-removable media
Model Number: WDC WD10EARS-00Y5B1
Serial Number: WD-WCAV55464493
Firmware Revision: 80.00A80
Transport: Serial, SATA 1.0a, SATA II Extensions, SATA Rev
2.5, SATA Rev 2.6
Standards:
Supported: 8 7 6 5
Likely used: 8
Configuration:
Logical max current
cylinders 16383 16383
heads 16 16
sectors/track 63 63
--
CHS current addressable sectors: 16514064
LBAuser addressable sectors: 268435455
LBA48 user addressable sectors: 1953525168
Logical/Physical Sector size: 512 bytes
device size with M = 1024*1024: 953869 MBytes
device size with M = 1000*1000: 1000204 MBytes (1000 GB)
cache/buffer size = unknown
Capabilities:
LBA, IORDY(can be disabled)
Queue depth: 32
Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, with device specific minimum
R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16 Current = 16
Recommended acoustic management value: 128, current value: 128
DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6
Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
Cycle time: no flow control=120ns IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
Enabled Supported:
*SMART feature set
Security Mode feature set
*Power Management feature set
*Write cache
*Look-ahead
*Host Protected Area feature set
*WRITE_BUFFER command
*READ_BUFFER command
*NOP cmd
*DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
Power-Up In Standby feature set
*SET_FEATURES required to spinup after power up
SET_MAX security extension
*Automatic Acoustic Management feature set
*48-bit Address feature set
*Device Configuration Overlay feature set
*Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE
*FLUSH_CACHE_EXT
*SMART error logging
*SMART self-test
*General Purpose Logging feature set
*64-bit World wide name
*{READ,WRITE}_DMA_EXT_GPL commands
*Segmented DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
*Gen1 signaling speed (1.5Gb/s)
*Gen2 signaling speed (3.0Gb/s)
*Native Command Queueing (NCQ)
*Host-initiated interface power management
*Phy event counters
*NCQ priority information
*DMA Setup Auto-Activate optimization
*Software settings preservation
*SMART Command Transport (SCT) feature set
*SCT Features Control (AC4)
*SCT Data Tables (AC5)
unknown 206[12] (vendor specific)
unknown 206[13] (vendor specific)
Security:
Master password revision code = 65534
supported
not enabled
not locked
frozen
not expired: security count
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On 9 Feb 2010, at 19:37, J. Roeleveld wrote: ... Don't get me started on those ;) The reason I use Linux Software Raid is because: 1) I can't afford hardware raid adapters 2) It's generally faster then hardware fakeraid I'd rather have slow hardware RAID than fast software RAID. I'm not being a snob, it just suits my purposes better. If speed isn't an issue then secondhand prices of SATA RAID controllers (PCI PCI-X form-factor) are starting to become really cheap. Obviously new cards are all PCI-e - industry has long moved to that, and enthusiasts are following. I would be far less invested in hardware RAID if I could find regular SATA controllers which boasted hot-swap. I've read reports of people hot-swapping SATA drives just fine on their cheap controllers but last time I checked there were no manufacturers who supported this as a feature. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:58:10 +0100, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On 2/9/2010 3:16 AM, Dale wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:17:08 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: My solution to simplify Gentoo... waltd...@d531 ~ $ cat /etc/portage/package.mask sys-libs/pam sys-apps/dbus sys-apps/hal You'll have to do a manual depclean (very carefully) and revdep-rebuild, but it's worth the effort to purify your Gentoo system. Simpler than that, just add -hal to xorg stuff in package.use and then run emerge -uvDNa world. I'm not saying your way won't work but I think mine is easier. His way is also *way* more Luddite than yours. Note the 'pam' and 'dbus', two things basically standard (and very stable) on modern Linux desktop systems. --K I don't agree with the term Luddite here. It's not being against new things and new ways of doing things. He just doesn't need those things for his hardware to work properly. Me, I don't need hal for my mouse and keyboard to work. As a matter of fact, mine doesn't work WITH hal. I have to remove hal to get mine to work. So, hal may be progress to you but it is a step backward for me. It's the opposite of progress. Dale :-) :-) I think, that hal was a lot harder for a lot of us, than the good old xorg.conf. This may because we (linux user in general) are used to xorg.conf. For my personal experience, I hadn't been using linux for about 4 years, so I'd completely forgotten the xorg syntax, but that was still a more simple process to relearn the xorg.conf syntax, than understanding the hal configuration files. A project such as hal necessarily has contact with the user with an unusual (read: at least a non-us keyboard) setup. Therefore the syntax in which it is configured has to be easily (read: a quick google search/documentation search away) accessed by the users to whom it may be necessary. And I believe that this is the point where hal truly fails, other than cases like Dale's. The xorg.conf is simply a more simple, and easier configuration file than the various hal policies. Well, actually, if hal would have worked I wouldn't have cared if it uses xorg.conf at all. That was the point of using hal. Thing is, I followed the howto and it didn't work. The fact that the config files are in xml only became a problem after hal locked me out of my GUI and required a hard shutdown. So, hal failed on my system not just because of the config files being in xml but because it just didn't work at all. Bad things is, this system is a 5 year old rig. Heaven forbid I had something new that had iffy support. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:18:54 +0100, Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: On Wednesday 10 February 2010 01:02:50 Dale wrote: Oh I'm fine. Thank Goodness! Now to go watch NCIS. I won't ask what that is; I think I'd rather not know. NCIS = Naval Criminal Investigative Service. It's good ;) I am worried about the blood pressure though ;) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:18:54 +0100, Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: On Wednesday 10 February 2010 01:02:50 Dale wrote: Oh I'm fine. Thank Goodness! Now to go watch NCIS. I won't ask what that is; I think I'd rather not know. NCIS = Naval Criminal Investigative Service. It's good ;) I am worried about the blood pressure though ;) With all the things I have to deal with, hal is not even on the top 25 or so. Heck, my puter doesn't even make that. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On 02/09/2010 06:30 PM, Dale wrote: With all the things I have to deal with, hal is not even on the top 25 or so. Heck, my puter doesn't even make that. You offer us a glimmer of hope, Dale. How did you push your computer problems below number 25? If it involves drugs, please publish a list of them!
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Iain Buchanan wrote: On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 13:34 +, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:46:40 +, Stroller wrote: With the RAID, you could fail one disk, repartition, re-add it, rinse and repeat. But that doesn't take care of the time issue. Aren't you thinking of LVM, or something? No. The very nature of RAID is redundancy, so you could remove one disk from the array to modify its setup then replace it. so long as you didn't have any non-detectable disk errors before removing the disk, or any drive failure while one of the drives were removed. And the deterioration in performance while each disk was removed in turn might take more time than its worth. Of course RAID 1 wouldn't suffer from this (with 2 disks)... Raid 6. Two disks can go down.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
Peter Humphrey wrote: On Tuesday 09 February 2010 18:03:39 Neil Walker wrote: Be lucky, Neil How would I go about doing that? Well, you need a rabbit's foot, a four leaf clover, a horseshoe (remember to keep the open end uppermost), a black cat, ;) Be lucky, Neil
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
Iain Buchanan wrote: I'm starting to stray OT here, but I'm considering a second-hand Adaptec 2420SA - this is real hardware raid right? It's a PCI-X card (not PCI-E). Are you sure that's right for your system? If I'm buying drives in the 1Tb size - does this 4k issue affect hardware RAID and how do you get around it? (Never set up a HW RAID card before) You would need to check with Adaptec. The latest BIOS is 2 years old so it may not support the latest drives. Be lucky, Neil
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 17:27 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Iain Buchanan iai...@netspace.net.au wrote: On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 14:54 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: Frank, As best I can tell so far none of the Linux tools will tell you that the sectors are 4K. I had to go to the WD web site and find the actual drive specs to discover that was true. however if you use dmesg: Consider as an alternative hdparm dash capital eye. Not sure why you spelt it, but tee hach ae en kay ess! I knew there was another way somewhere, but it didn't spring to mind immediately. -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Actually, my goal is to have a sandwich named after me.
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Wednesday 10 February 2010 01:22:31 Iain Buchanan wrote: On Tue, 2010-02-09 at 08:47 +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: I now only need to figure out the best way to configure LVM over this to get the best performance from it. Does anyone know of a decent way of figuring this out? I got 6 disks in Raid-5. why LVM? Planning on changing partition size later? LVM is good for (but not limited to) non-raid setups where you want one partition over a number of disks. If you have RAID 5 however, don't you just get one large disk out of it? In which case you could just create x partitions. You can always use parted to resize / move them later. IMHO recovery from tiny boot disks is easier without LVM too. General observation (not saying that Iain is wrong): You use RAID to get redundancy, data integrity and performance. You use lvm to get flexibility, ease of maintenance and the ability to create volumes larger than any single disk or array. And do it at a reasonable price. These two things have nothing to do with each other and must be viewed as such. There are places where RAID and lvm seem to overlap, where one might think that a feature of one can be used to replace the other. But both really suck in these overlaps and are not very good at them. Bottom line: don't try and use RAID or LVM to do $STUFF outside their core functions. They each do one thing and do it well. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] 1-Terabyte drives - 4K sector sizes? - bar performance so far
On Wed, 2010-02-10 at 07:31 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010, Iain Buchanan wrote: so long as you didn't have any non-detectable disk errors before removing the disk, or any drive failure while one of the drives were removed. And the deterioration in performance while each disk was removed in turn might take more time than its worth. Of course RAID 1 wouldn't suffer from this (with 2 disks)... Raid 6. Two disks can go down. not that I know enough about RAID to comment on this page, but you might find it interesting: http://www.baarf.com/ specifically: http://www.miracleas.com/BAARF/RAID5_versus_RAID10.txt -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au The executioner is, I hear, very expert, and my neck is very slender. -- Anne Boleyn
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Wednesday 10 February 2010 03:29:50 Dale wrote: Well, actually, if hal would have worked I wouldn't have cared if it uses xorg.conf at all. That was the point of using hal. Thing is, I followed the howto and it didn't work. The fact that the config files are in xml only became a problem after hal locked me out of my GUI and required a hard shutdown. hal is a classic Second System Effect case But I thought we thrashed this to death a while ago and all agreed to never speak of this abomination again, while we await the Third System Effect aka DeviceKit? -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
